And create questions of how that's possible given Kaien's soul having been munched and became part of another Hollow who's clearly still around after Ichigo's birth?
Yes. In fact, such questions are all the more reason for Kubo to do that.
Nardo and Bleh Thread III: Naruto is a terrible terrible manga
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And what the hell are we even supposed to make of the horrible HollowGetsu fusion thingie Ichigo fought in the hyperbolic time chamber now
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We now have a few unexplained identities of Ichigo. The second hollow transformation which most likely will be explained as a bankai form of the Hollow-Ichigo.
Then Tensa-Zangetsu who should be a form of Bach. But I can't imagine why he should be so young. Even a Quincytechnique like VOLLSTÄNDIG shouldn't explain that.
And of course why Bach could impersonate a Zanpakotou so well that no captain and not even this Shopkeeper/Development dude could recognize it as fake.
The last problem that I see is how bach managed to subdue the hollow up tothe point that they talked civilly. If bach really is not completly ichigos touse then thee hollow should have fought him.
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@The:
And what the hell are we even supposed to make of the horrible HollowGetsu fusion thingie Ichigo fought in the hyperbolic time chamber now
Ironically, this is probably the easiest explained part with all the talk of transcendental beings and all that. It'll probably be explained that Ichigo successfully merged his quincy/shinigami powers during that, leading to a power that was much greater than the sum of its parts.
That the above happened without Ichigo understanding what the fuck went on however…
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@The:
And what the hell are we even supposed to make of the horrible HollowGetsu fusion thingie Ichigo fought in the hyperbolic time chamber now
It's simply the Quincy spirit absorbing the inner Hollow using Sklaverei. Just like when Kirge absorbed Ayon.
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wow, so Gliblord's totally off the wall theory about Zangetsu being Ywhack actually came true. Kudos.
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@The:
Holy fucking shit, this weeks Bleach is borderline incomprehensible its so bad
I wash I wasn't writing my thesis, I can barely wrap my head around this whole asauchi/zanpakutou/hollow bullshit
Finish your thesis already so you can focus on more important things
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Finish your thesis already so you can focus on more important things
I'm sure there's people here willing to help with that as well. :D
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wow, so Gliblord's totally off the wall theory about Zangetsu being Ywhack actually came true. Kudos.
Yeah, it's all really yWACK YO
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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but:
http://www.mangareader.net/94-674-9/bleach/chapter-220.html -
i only read the first and last pages of bleach these days but i have to say that twist isn't too bad
they look pretty similar so hey they're the same person. good enough for bleach standards bravo kubo (i'm serious this isn't bad) -
@Zp1:
Ironically, this is probably the easiest explained part with all the talk of transcendental beings and all that. It'll probably be explained that Ichigo successfully merged his quincy/shinigami powers during that, leading to a power that was much greater than the sum of its parts.
That the above happened without Ichigo understanding what the fuck went on however…
But the whole thing was part of the Mugetsu training program. Ichigos shinigami power (+ his inner hollow, hence the fusion) was sacrificed in order to perform the move. It was all about Ichigo losing his shinigami powers, Quinciness didn't factor into it whatsoever.
Really, that whole "sacrifice powahz!" thing was truly astoundingly bad writing. So, Ichigo sacrifices his shinigaminess (and hollowness), to the point where hollogetsu tearfully says goodbye…and then he gets new amalgamated soul society powers, only some of it is his old shinigaminess that wasn't really gone... only its still new powers, though no hollow powers appearantly...but now zangetsu was never gone at all, and it was a quincy thing all the time, even though Ichigos Quincy powers weren't awakened until just now and he never has expressed quincy powers before...and the quincy powers have been tutoring him in shinigaminess all the time, while his hollow, who was really his sword, has always jsut been a hollow...
aaaaargh point is, why the hell are the quincy powers getting sacrificed for Mugetsu (and somehow, nothing is sacrificed at all)
It's simply the Quincy spirit absorbing the inner Hollow using Sklaverei. Just like when Kirge absorbed Ayon.
Super-Wrong.
1: its inside Ichigo. Standard "Spiritrons lawlz" rules don't apply.
2: The fusion was completely willing. No froced absorbing whatsoever.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but:
http://www.mangareader.net/94-674-9/bleach/chapter-220.htmlThat was supposed to signify hollow Ichigo absorbing the shinigami/zanpak powers, trying to usurp control of Ichigos body. King and his horse, and all that. Really, that whole segment makes fuckall sense if, instead of the Inner Hollow claiming the bankai powers, its fighting Ichigo with his…errr.....quincy-bankai.
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I still think Zangetsu-Bach taught Ichigo the Vollständig techniqueinstead of it actually being a Bankai lol.
Training for Ichigo to achieve his true Bankai is around the corner
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i only read the first and last pages of bleach these days but i have to say that twist isn't too bad
they look pretty similar so hey they're the same person. good enough for bleach standards bravo kubo (i'm serious this isn't bad)Its pretty bad when you consider that the embodient of Ichigos shinigami powers, the thing everyone has called his sword spirit since day one, the thing thats' lectured him on shinigaminess and bankai and treating your sword and all that…
is actually the a piece of the soul of the evil leader of the species which is literally the polar opposite of shinigami
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yeah but its a piece of the soul of the leader not the actual leader
i didnt read the chapter but we presumably don't know his real motives for acting like he has in the past -
Reading through the last few pages I realise that yeah, this twist was pretty much a fuck-up. I guess it's more stomachable if you don't pay attention to the Bleach power levels. If only Bleach didn't take itself so seriously I wouldn't have to do so myself.
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Considering that they're capable of being in a place where spirits are corporeal and interacting with them, a piece of the soul of the leader is pretty much the same thing as a piece of the leader.
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yeah but its a piece of the soul of the leader not the actual leader
i didnt read the chapter but we presumably don't know his real motives for acting like he has in the pastIt not being the real Bach is immaterial. The fact remains that everything that was Shinigami about Ichigo for 500 chapters suddenly springs from a quincy core.
It's one of those things that's gonna make Bleach a riot upon rereads.
Like, the time Ichigo trained to regain his powers (the first time).
Ichigo is just about to fuck up and turn into a hollow;
Zangetsu: Hey Ichigo. You can only survive by becoming a shinigami. So grab the box with your shinigami powers.
Ichigo: A box with a red scarf! Shinigami souls are red, so this is my shinigami powers!
Zangetsu: Well done. Have a shiinigami outfit, shinigami powers, and I'll be your shinigami sword spirit behaving like all the other shinigami sword spirits.
Ichigo: cool
Zangetsu: Only, um, I'm appearantly a quincy. Don't see how all this works then. -
Nice use of samey character designs there kubo, link one to another bravo lol
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I'm also amused at the thought of hundreds of small Juha Bachs running around inside the Quincy army. I wonder if Ishida has one too.
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yes but has the reason for him training ichigo been explained at all
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Or, or, or how about the time Yourichi manifested Ichigos Zanpakutou so they could train for bankai together
Only it was his inner quincy PRETENDING to be the sword and pretending SO WELL that he was manifested HEEEEYOOOOOO
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All part of the plaaaaaan to make Ichigo the Quincy Messiah.
I've said it here, ergo it'll come to pass.
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It doesn't matter whether the twist makes sense, my concern now is whether it makes sense narratively
And no, piling yet another evil masterplan onto Ichigo's shitty, no-autonomy life doesn't make sense at this juncture
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Most likely every reference to Ichigos Hollow, Zanpaktou or Shinigami powers has been made invalid by this one chapter. I don't know but it seems like that is pretty unique for manga.
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yes but has the reason for him training ichigo been explained at all
No, but thats not the point. Its not a matter of training.
In order to be a shinigami, you need a special chocolate center of shinigaminess.
Zangetsu IS that center.
But he's a quincy.Its like if it was revealed that Luffy had ACTUALLY eaten the yami yami fruit, which had pretended to be his Inner Rubber Devil all along
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@The:
Hello I'm Rockstar Midget I'm appearantly the resident expert on completely-unknown-5-minutes-ago super special hollows Aizen made that no one knew about and how they fuse with peoples zanpakutou powers because that is so totally common and so totally common knowledge because for some reason mashing a lot of shinigami souls together into a white hollow that is black is kinda the same as these blank proto-swords i make oh god kill me now
I thought it was implied those guys know everything that goes on but don't help because it's not "their job"
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It doesn't matter whether the twist makes sense, my concern now is whether it makes sense narratively
And no, piling yet another evil masterplan onto Ichigo's shitty, no-autonomy life doesn't make sense at this juncture
"Gaaah! I need to find a way to have Ichigo deeply emotionally connect with this new, final villain! What if….the villain was responsible for Ichigos moms death! Indirectly and lamely! Also, Ichigo is the villains son- no, descendant, kinda sorta...hmmmm, not enough. Oh, what if, WHAT IF ZANGETSU HAD BEEN THE VILLAIN ALL ALONG! Dun Dun Duuuuuunnnnnn Kubo you're a genius"
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@The:
No, but thats not the point. Its not a matter of training.
In order to be a shinigami, you need a special chocolate center of shinigaminess.
Zangetsu IS that center.
But he's a quincy.Its like if it was revealed that Luffy had ACTUALLY eaten the yami yami fruit, which had pretended to be his Inner Rubber Devil all along
isn't Zangetsu the albino Ichigo from the Soul Society arc
whereas Bach is his quincy sideIchigo has both quincy and shinigami powers and the quincy core is channeling the shinigami core in a really mediocre way in order to neuter Ichigo
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I thought it was implied those guys know everything that goes on but don't help because it's not "their job"
Theres being a knowitall smartass, and then theres knowing things that are absolutely impossible to know
Like, how do you know what happens when Aizens super special hollow species that no one knew of bites quincy people. Did a lot of experiments on that, huh, Rockstar Midget? And how DO you know about Ichigos inner Bach. Did you just look at him from your secluded KingDimension and instantly spot that "yup, he's got the quincy leader in his head alright"
With all this omniscient knowledge running rampant in Bleach, I can only assume Urahara is running around the bleachverse wth Kubos cliffnotes, shouting exposition to everyone. "HEY ISSHIN, HEY RYUKEN, YOUR WIVES DIED BECAUSE OF THIS 1000 YEAR OLD QUINCY KING, I KNOW THIS SOMEHOW"
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Ichigo stars in the new docudrama, The Worst Fucking Life
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isn't Zangetsu the albino Ichigo from the Soul Society arc
whereas Bach is his quincy sideIchigo has both quincy and shinigami powers and the quincy core is channeling the shinigami core in a really mediocre way in order to neuter Ichigo
Albino Ichigo is his inner hollow. Who actually the sword all the time!
And Rockstar Midget clearly says that Bach/Zangetsu never had anything to do with his sword powers…so theres no "quincy controlling the shinigaminess" going on at all.
In fact, most of the time, Ichigos inner hollow was trying to break out and override the shinigami powers for himself.Or I guess, the shinigami powers were trying to claim the evil quincy powers? The quincy powers who totally werenøt neutering Ichigo, but rather saved his ass and fueled his shinigami powers? Shit this is confusing.
So I guess Hollow Ichigo is the "real" Zangetsu now. That makes his famous line of "I have no name!" back when he took over Ichigo at the Byakuya fight make Soooooooooooooooo much more sense...
Makes no sense.
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Wait,haven't read any Bleach in three weeks now,but are you guys saying that Zangetsu was revealed to have been Juha Bach all along?
Exquisite.
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Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Ichigo's hollow powers come out in the first place because of Urahara cutting his soul chain-thingy and throwing him in a pit to get him his shinigami powers back?
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COntinuity aside, I really like this twist in all seriousness. From the second I saw Bach, me and many others were like "ZANGETSU RIP OFF!"
To think Kubo actually had a plan for a change… I've heard an idea tossed around that Kubo had the first and last arcs planned and just didn't know what the hell to do in the middle and this really makes me believe that.
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Bleach, what the fuck are you doing? Kubo realized he accidentally made two characters look alike so suddenly they're the same person. I guess that means that every character that looks like Ichigo (which is 80% of the characters) is actually a manifestation of Ichigo.
It is possible he made Bach to look like Zangetsu
Is it possible that Bach is a 'Shinigami' in the loosest sense? He was around 1000 years ago, new Yamamoto, gave humans superpowers, and HE WEARS BLACK. Being someone who is not well acquainted with all the Bleach affairs, is that feasible?
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It is possible he made Bach to look like Zangetsu
Is it possible that Bach is a 'Shinigami' in the loosest sense? He was around 1000 years ago, new Yamamoto, gave humans superpowers, and HE WEARS BLACK. Being someone who is not well acquainted with all the Bleach affairs, is that feasible?
Oh, there's at least a 50/50 change he only made this up at the start of this arc.
But foreshadowing even at the start of the arc is pretty damn good for Kubo.
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@The:
Theres being a knowitall smartass, and then theres knowing things that are absolutely impossible to know
Like, how do you know what happens when Aizens super special hollow species that no one knew of bites quincy people. Did a lot of experiments on that, huh, Rockstar Midget? And how DO you know about Ichigos inner Bach. Did you just look at him from your secluded KingDimension and instantly spot that "yup, he's got the quincy leader in his head alright"
With all this omniscient knowledge running rampant in Bleach, I can only assume Urahara is running around the bleachverse wth Kubos cliffnotes, shouting exposition to everyone. "HEY ISSHIN, HEY RYUKEN, YOUR WIVES DIED BECAUSE OF THIS 1000 YEAR OLD QUINCY KING, I KNOW THIS SOMEHOW"
Maybe it's like the truman show
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Maybe it's like the truman show
Everyone but Ichigo know its just a show thats gone on since his birth and everyone else is all actors while he is oblivious? Wow, that even validates how Aizen has know about him since the beginning.
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This post is deleted!
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Everyone but Ichigo know its just a show thats gone on since his birth and everyone else is all actors while he is oblivious? Wow, that even validates how Aizen has know about him since the beginning.
If that's the final twist I called it.
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Naruto was bleh
Bleach on the other hand, this is an actual good twist by Kubo. Planned? Perhaps, but it's good to see that Zangestu is still in this story, after being gone for god knows how long.
What interests me, is if Ichigo's new sword will be in full release like before, or will it be a normal katana with a release command. If it is, I am willing to bet that the command is. "Bleach"
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So the Bankai Zangetsu was an even more youngerer version of Bach?!
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things rendered nil by this chapter
-how ichigo gained back his powers when he lost them in the beginning of the manga
-how ichigo defeated kenpachi (hurr durr know my name before you fight)
-how he gained his bankai
-that he had a bankai in the very first place
-the whole vizard training arc (so nobody notices that theres something wrong in his internal world?)
-the whole hollowgetsu thingdid i forget something?
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things rendered nil by this chapter
-how ichigo gained back his powers when he lost them in the beginning of the manga
-how ichigo defeated kenpachi (hurr durr know my name before you fight)
-how he gained his bankai
-that he had a bankai in the very first place
-the whole vizard training arc (so nobody notices that theres something wrong in his internal world?)
-the whole hollowgetsu thingdid i forget something?
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You know what, fuck it, i give up, there's no point anymore
everyone be serenaded by freeza singing in engrish and pretend that this chapter never happened
NOBODY KNOW WHO I REARRY AM
I NEED A FUREIND THAT'S EMPTY BEFOE
AND IF I EVAH MEET SOMEONE AN COME AROWN
WHO'S GONNA COME FOR ME AN KEEP ME STURONG -
hahahaha.. everything about Ichigo's life was a lie. i wonder when will Ichigo realize this. or maybe not..
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hahahaha.. everything about Ichigo's life was a lie. i wonder when will Ichigo realize this. or maybe not..
I'm sure if he had any real life goals it might be upsetting. At this rate he'll be a high school dropout with PTSD working at that ramen place.
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I'm sure if he had any real life goals it might be upsetting. At this rate he'll be a high school dropout with PTSD working at that ramen place.
hahahaha.. and much worse is there are some Kubo/Bleach fans who exactly like Ichigo, didn't realized that they have been played by Kubo. some of them really believe all of this shit and actually thought that Kubo already planned everything regarding this new revelations from the very beginning. one of their famous proof is, Zangetsu looks like Ywach….............................................. damn
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Bleach, Dissapointment, i like pie, Naruto sucks, oh no not again… Shounen jump