Looking at your avatar makes me feel Franky is one of the people who got the worst end of the stick character development wise. Its been a loooooooooong time since the "Being alive…is not a sin!" days.
Criticism of One Piece
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@The:
Looking at your avatar makes me feel Franky is one of the people who got the worst end of the stick character development wise. Its been a loooooooooong time since the "Being alive…is not a sin!" days.
It is intersting to note that with Franky missing for several chapter in PH right now, there might be some developments ahead for him. At least Vegapunk should serve as a catalyst for several characters, including Franky, Chopper and Robin. We also aren't used to the new characters designs yet, a problem nearly all long-running series encounter when they change something so big.
Which still leaves the problem people have with the current Strawhats: As mentioned before the changed focus and the lack of distinct panels is really taking it's toll on all the characters, ut it is the most obvious when it comes down to the SH's as they are our protagonists and therefore got all these memorable lines we are missing right now. I agree that Luffy is getting closer to the typical Shounen protagonist (remember him bowing down on Drumm or showing respect at several other locations?), however this cockiness is something that can actually be explained by the progression of the story. Luffy was always cocky and after two years of training he is obviously more piratey than ever, although his amorality and lack of respect naturally comes off as arrogance as he now has way more power to back it up and hasn't faced someone who showed him his place yet. I actually expected such a role from him as I think most Supernovae started out like this once they reached the New World and guess what; they all got knocked down a bunch. Kidd lost an arm, Bonney got wiped out casually by Blackbeard before her adventure even began and I am sure Law's missing crew is an issue of importance as well. It is safe to assume that the current powerhouses like Big Mom will receive an emotional tie-in within the story by showing the SH's their current standing, e.g. defeating them in a certain way. As I said before, Oda leaving out most transitional scenes made the Strawhat's feel bland, yet I think he will slowly work it's way back to create a sense of possible development for our protagonists as it is needed to drive the story forward. Vergo and DoFla already showed hints of being these people, and I am sure Oda has soemthing in store for us in the near future. -
I can summarize most of my current gripes with the series by saying that it feels like Oda's stuck in Marineford mode. Every chapter's gotta end on a cliffhanger, everything needs to be bigger, flashier, and more destructive, there needs to be a million things going on at once all day every day. I miss when things were more leisurely and less hectic, like during Skypiea and Water 7. I miss when transition scenes weren't shoved off screen making everything feel muddled. I miss when fights actually had choreography to them (though Punk Hazard's been much better in this regard than Fishman Island was). I miss the times when attacks didn't have to be so ridiculously over the top, with a few exceptions, and that battles weren't halfway reliant on whose set of invisible magic armor was better. I miss the times when the interaction felt richer and not just a strema of character gags (it's a problem that all series eventually face, but some handle it more gracefully than others).
Just had to get that off of my chest. Oda's still doing an good job overall and his story is still entertaining, but I still can't help but sometimes yearn for a simpler time.
agree with what Crossword said even though even though I don't mind about most of attack or power are flashier and bigger..
Disagree with almost all things in your post, but this is a criticism thread, so here goes.
I don't like the draggy arc middles(which has already been mentioned here), I think Thriller Bark, Skypiea and Fishman Island are the best examples here. Of course there needs to be a transition point from introduction to action, but it tends to really drag, there's usually stuff going on with small neat moments, but it's not directly advancing the plot, PH is sort of having this problem, too, right now, but it really isn't as bad as the above examples(Shi-no-Kuni could've been resolved faster), for example.
i understand what you mean and some part i agree with you but when reading a volume it doesn't really feel laggy at all for me. everything flow and feel natural actually for me.. most of the time after i finish reading the latest volume i feel its not enough and go reading the weekly chapter even though i already read them weekly.
so i think as a weekly writer Oda understand this kind thing and not just write for the sack of weekly magazine. and now with the crew far bigger than when the story on Skypeia, more secondary per arc, plot for the island plus other plots running at the same time One Piece will feel more laggy after this. and after MF War, like Crossword said, transition scenes were shoved off screen making everything feel muddled. its not the story that are fast but flow. the story are slower actually. it just so many thing happen and need to be draw in just 18-20 pages a week.
Avoiding death in an annoying and illogical manner. Pell surviving(which also sort of contradicted Luffy's statement earlier in the arc and thus part of the theme), then there's everyone surviving Enel's lightning, I also found the limit for the usage of the Impact dial annoying, why introduce the limit/rule in the first place if it in the long run doesn't matter.
Bon-chan surviving was annoying, but it made sense thanks to BB being there, the thing with the shipwrights surviving actually made sense as well because of Paulie. I guess, I just don't like emotional manipulation like that. I do hope the G5 people stay dead because them surviving would make no sense. Don't care most of the fodder because they are minor enough, like Coribou.i don't really mind with the way Oda handled death in One Piece because for me Oda never really "play" or focus on it every time it happen. Oda never really emphasize and make the last moment of the supposedly dead character impact-full, dramatic and important. but when he focus and emphasize on it, death happen. it really is happen.
and for me One Piece is not about dying. its about never give up (and adventure and friendship off course). One Piece is about living no matter how hard it is and never give up. if you keep living something good will happen eventually. this was shown so many time in the story. for example look at the D's. they laugh at the face of death. look how many people go to grandline even though they know how deadly grandline is.
and Oda most of the time his characters only died in flashback.. i think that is because its like Shank said, its okay to be sad but only for short time. toughen up and get back on feet. most of the strawhats lost somebody close to them in the past, and they accept it, let it go and now they are stronger than ever. One Piece is about that. Death is there. the danger is there. but just an obstacle to be overcome. thats how i view death in One Piece.
for almost 700 chapters we see Strawhats journey and struggle to stay alive to survive and thats the theme. and somewhere in there Oda give us a meaningful death that actually relevant to the story. but i do agree about the franky family thing. that was cheap by Oda.
I particularly dislike the fact that Shirahoshi knew about her mom's death, but didn't tell anyone. You are supposed to sympathize with her because she did because of her mother's wish, but it comes across as really stupid. If she had talked this whole situation going on would not even have happened. The situation at Skypiea was solved a little too happily as well, I think. 400-year wars don't end just like that. I mean all of these situations are solved in an idealistic and naive manner and it IS a kids manga, so I guess it's just me being really cynical and critical with this point.
yeah most of that is not realistic at all. what Shirahoshi do is not realistic and stupid but doesn't mean it can't happen. i don't want to give you any real life example that are close to something like that. and she is kid at the time. kids most of the time do listen to their parents and somebody and plus with that kind of trauma. people do so many unrealistic stuff under that kind of trauma.
and for skypeia, most of the people did really want to stop the war and gain peace. it just some people at the top that don't want to. and then one/common enemy come and they have to work with each other to fight this one enemy, i think its not really farfetch on what Oda did with Skypeia ending.
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this thread smells like this is just the thread opener trying to impose his own personal opinions as general opinions. "i asked on an active board", YEAH RIGHT.
AH YA CAUGHT MEH
Your post was decently articulated enough so I see no reason to rail against it. But are those quotes seriously supposed to be convincing? lol. I could find them in a youtube comments section in 5 seconds flat.
Nope, they weren't meant to convince anyone of anything. Those were things I got when asking about how people felt about post-timeskip One Piece. This isn't a thread to convince people of things. And Youtube comments would use letters for numbers and would be written by 12 year olds as opposed to geeks(geeks are great).
My biggest critique of One Piece is how Oda tends to drag his arcs around the middle. He's amazing for his starts and finishes, but his middles for long arcs like Thriller Bark and Fishmen Island (The only disappointing arc due to the complete over-hyping of it) are too long and sometimes quite boring.
Seems like you and a several others mention the dragging to be placed in the middle of the arcs. I actually never really noticed this haha but it's kinda true, so good point.
I have a serious problem with One piece: will I be alive when last chapter be out? The rest is perfect ;-)
What if Oda doesn't live long enough for the series to end. WHAT THEN.
While I get some of your points, I really disagree with you on a lot. Strawhats haven't been in danger… which is clearly how Luffy lost to Ceasar and Sanji broke his leg fighting Vergo. Yeah, they've been owning a lot of the characters on Punk Hazard, but NONE of the important ones. You don't seem to understand that most of Punk Hazard's residents were already the failures of the new world. ... Yeah we're getting a lot of characters thrown out now, but I highly doubt this huge stream will continue, and I actually appreciate that Oda is setting up major players in advance rather.
Finally, Haki was an inevitability and isn't the game breaker you make it out to be. Logia's were honestly way too powerful before this. Furthermore, not every haki user uses all the types. Saying half the cast are now haki users is ridiculous. Haki users are primarily the top men of the best crews the way I see it. CoO has also been proven not to be invincible.
I also like the nostalgia goggles you're wearing. There have ALWAYS been throw away characters in One Piece. Most of the baroque works agents were one note and disposable, and even the ones who got fights were pretty bland outside of Mr 2 and Mr 3. Kuroobi and CHew were also pretty boring characters, and Hatchan would be as well if not for the focus he got later. Yeah there were a lot of whitebeard commanders, because Oda wanted to show the scale and power of whitebeard's crew. But honestly, every character doesn't need to be fleshed out.
And you're point about a specific board isn't valid if you don't even tell us what that board is. A lot of board's attract different types of people, so unless you've visited many boards and asked for opinions, you can't know which ones are naturally biased against One Piece. Also the fact that you didn't link it makes it impossible for us to know whether or not the posts you showed are actually representitive of the sentiment on even that forum since its pretty easy to handpick posts that will make it seem like you have a point
ALl that said, Oda does have legitimate flaws. Oda can be a bit too stubborn on not killing characters at times. His treatment of women, while better than many other shonen, still leaves much to be desired. Sanji can be annoying at times as well. Oda's pacing often goes from very fast to somewhat slow, which can be kind of jarring. Oda does occasionally under utilize characters like Madame Shirley and Vanderdecken. Some of the power's Oda has made recently seem a bit too strong and haven't really been explained well, such as Laws, although this might still change.
Yeah, Luffy having a hard time fighting Caesar is actually an improvement imo. It's still really fresh though, so we gotta see if he continues to be challenged. Monet wasn't able to hold him back. And if the nonimportant characters have been owned, then why are they even around in the first place. It's just pointless and time-consuming to introduce seemingly powerful characters only to have their butts kicked. And tbh, I would prefer Oda waiting to show off some designs til they're actually relevant. It sometimes feels like we're getting so much of a preview that it could potentially be lackluster when they're actually in the story. Of course, that's entirely a matter of personal preference and is understandable if we disagree.
About Haki. I'm okay with it being there. But it just seems a bit overpowered and abstract. Almost every unexplained ability is speculated to be haki to some degree, which is tiresome to see. Logias were powerful, but there really weren't that many of them. A ton of marines have haki. And of course it isn't perfect, for example Otohime didn't take advantage of it during her assassination.
No nostalgia goggles good sir. Your judgment of characters like BW agents and Kuroobi & Chew are purely opinion. They managed to still serve roles. Not every minor character needs to be fully fleshed out, especially if they aren't gonna be in the plot forever. Sure, we saw that Whitebeard's crew was big and tough, but I can only remember like 5 of those commanders, and that's only cause they're androgynous or look like He-man.
I thought linking to other boards was bannable? Even if I link, I won't since I don't care to make any links between my board usernames for personal reasons. Doesn't really matter. I said general and active, which implies no themed discussion and a large and varied amount of people. Looking around other boards is something you can do yourself, you don't need my help.
And I pretty much agree with everything in your last paragraph. Was hoping for more from Shirley and Decken myself, though we'll prolly see Shirley again.
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I personally believe the increase in the number of Straw Hats has made arcs drag out, just because they all need some development or part to play. To have them all interact with each other, focus on their individual dreams AND then throw in a bunch of new villians, allies, island designs etc… it's hard work that has been self-provided by Oda.
I liked One Piece more until after Enies Lobby, then it has been going downhill. Fishman Island was OP at its worst but now it's getting better again. What I like about before is the simpleness of it at times. For example less crewmates allowed Oda to focus on the plot more at a good pace... now it's quite overwhelming, like never a peaceful moment, and with the jokey and wacky interractions. Back when Luffy and co weren't world famous there was more freedom and excitement about their journey, and the characters had their human side (e.g. talking without a joke). I think they had the perfect number of crewmates at Skypiea and adding Franky was okay, but since then it's been harder to develop the SHs individually. Now they're developed more as a crew.
But there was bound to be a change because it's the voyage of Luffy and the SHs achieveing their dreams, so they will be facing more chaos than they did before and characters will change. Characters are more one-dimensional than before no doubt, but that tends to happen once a series gains fame and looks at profit over originality. But Oda hasn't sold out enough like The Simpsons and Spongebob SP have (great examples BTW, they're what I would have referred to).
And to me Sanji is still okay. Can be annoying, but his good moments usually outshine most SHs. Sanji fighting Vergo was a relief... Sanji held his own. Also Sanji hasn't been half as bad in PH... his moments with Kinemon are funny. As I say because there are more crewmates now, it's hard to build the SHs up consistently so their traits are shown whenever possible, and Sanji's traits are more annoying then the others so he's getting the worst of the critisism. Oda needs to bring our attention back on All Blue, then Sanji's character will be reignited properly.
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sometimes i wonder how many more character development we want for Luffy and old Strawhats after 600 chapter? and the story is still half done.. for me for Luffy and the old crews, we've seen enough already. just a little bit maturity and development over time are needed for them and doesn't really need a story for that.
and I agree with $abz too. and Strawhats "interaction" are just with their jokes feel too much for me right now. not as natural as before shabaody.
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The only thing i fear about One Piece , is that it will have a "pattern" to NW.
Arc
Intro of next Boss
Arc
Fight
Arc
Intro of next Boss
Arc
Fight
Arcand this will lead to focusing on the strong ones and have captains of NW like White Bay and etc destroyed.
Also dat haki thing…Everybody has it nowdays -
The only thing i fear about One Piece , is that it will have a "pattern" to NW.
Arc
Intro of next Boss
Arc
Fight
Arc
Intro of next Boss
Arc
Fight
Arcand this will lead to focusing on the strong ones and have captains of NW like White Bay and etc destroyed.
Also dat haki thing…Everybody has it nowdaysYeah. I sure hope the New World doesn't continue that formula you wrote up that Oda's been using since One Piece started. That would suck…
My Problem (Mind you it's not that big of a deal for me, but I still think it's a problem): TOO MANY MAIN CHARACTERS! Okay we've got 9 crew members currently. That's 9 stories to tell in eveery arc. You all know Oda pretty well so obviously he's gonna add some supporting characters each time to spice things up and give some topic of discussion to the "Next Crew Member" thread. THEN we have to deal with the new villians, or anti-villians, or miscellaneous.
On top of all these ever present stories that we have to keep track of, there's always the powerful characters in the background, that seem to play a larger part in the New World now. so, 8 Supernovas. Not to mention the Marine characters we actually care about, and the Shichikubai that may or may not appear again.
So...I don't know about you guys but I just wanna see the crew members. It's getting a little crowded in my manga :(
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No love for Skypiea? That's really so mean. I really liked Skipea (mostly due to the adventuring first part) and I hope we'll get more of those. I do admit Fishman's Island whole adventuring was kinda short for me. Not that much setting stuck in my head other than mermaid café, the palace and then that undersea forest place where the grave was. Not that many places to go adventuring.
Vergo's betrayal to the marine would have gathered more emotions from me if we had met him before (did we? I can't remember). That's why I couldn't bring myself to feel much for the Tashigi betrayal flashback since I haven't seen any real time Tashigi/Vergo interactions and it's also why the upcoming Smoker vs Vergo fight is going right under my radar of interest.
Flashbacks are nice but really it doesn't compensate for real time character interactions.
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@Miss:
No love for Skypiea? That's really so mean. I really liked Skipea (mostly due to the adventuring first part) and I hope we'll get more of those. I do admit Fishman's Island whole adventuring was kinda short for me. Not that much setting stuck in my head other than mermaid café, the palace and then that undersea forest place where the grave was. Not that many places to go adventuring.
Vergo's betrayal to the marine would have gathered more emotions from me if we had met him before (did we? I can't remember). That's why I couldn't bring myself to feel much for the Tashigi betrayal flashback since I haven't seen any real time Tashigi/Vergo interactions and it's also why the upcoming Smoker vs Vergo fight is going right under my radar of interest.
Flashbacks are nice but really it doesn't compensate for real time character interactions.
Skypeia has to be my favourite arc, followed closely by Alabasta, Jaya and Arlong. It had the right mix between fights, character development, story, exploration and an overall adventure feeling to it.
Anyway, i rest my case for the time being. Seems like a lot of plain posts are coming up and want to keep a focus on my posts on this matter.
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First I want to say that I really agree with Crossword and don't have much to say to that. There are times when I wish we would have one big arc, one little, relaxed arc, one big arc… But as the editorial guillotine hangs over One Piece, whispering, "Marineford sales or else," I can see why this isn't happening, as well another guillotine (time) looming over the horizon.
I really enjoy posts like Nidhoeggr's. That was a great, great read by someone who clearly knows their story structure.
I actually wish Mr. Toto would come post his gripes with the story; I know it would be another great read.
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At work right now, but when I'm back home I'll oh so post in this thread.
Just a thought: Thread to show our love for One Piece: 2 pages, and half of it is people bitching about the fandom.
Thread to critisize One Piece and talk about how it's going downhill, already in the fourth page.
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At work right now, but when I'm back home I'll oh so post in this thread.
Just a thought: Thread to show our love for One Piece: 2 pages, and half of it is people bitching about the fandom.
Thread to critisize One Piece and talk about how it's going downhill, already in the fourth page.
People love to accentuate the negative. That's nothing more than human nature. Nothing to draw statistics about or compare really. Though analyzing stuff honestly is more interesting than just saying "I like it". We're not yes men… at least I hope we're not.
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The problem (but also a strong point) with One Piece is that it's vast. The world, the story, the humongous cast, extent crew. That poses some challenges for author as well as for the audience. For the author, because he now needs more place to show development. For the development he could show in ten chapters in earlier stage of story now he needs fifty chapters or so and it's a challenge to keep it all consistent. Not all the readers have attention span and ability to link things together like that. And we have problem of rushing things forward, that may have been caused by two things - editorial meddling and Oda not willing to write a story till his hair is gray. (However I believe in Oda, I believe he will work out things in the long run.)
I do think critic of Sanji posted by FelRes is one-sided. It's true that being over-the-top pervert is bad. But let's remember Sanji is a pirate. Pirates are suppose to act in socially unacceptable way, and being pervert is just that. If Sanji were all chivalrous without being pervy, he would be too perfect for this manga. I believe that making characters ethically questionable is one of the strong points of One Piece. Besides, apart from being pervert Sanji clearly has some qualities as a character and really interesting interactions of lately, most notably with Kinemon, but on FI he has some with Jinbei.
There are things I'd like to see improved: first: some more focus on female character. I don't have bigger problems with what they are doing, it's just there is so little of them. I current ark I'd like to see especially some focus on Niami and Tashigi, since what is happening (with the children, and for Tashigi also with Velgo and G-5) is important to them. The second: I'd like to see more adventure and exploring and crew bonding time and bit less fighting.
About people just not dying. When I've started reading One Piece, I was actually happy that characters are not dying, because, that meant, I had thought, that my favourite character isn't going to die either. I've even managed to convinced myself for quite some chapters, that Oda would go against all laws of story telling and would save him in some ingenious way and keep him in the story. But Oda decided to make an exception from non killing the characters rule. Otherwise I agree, nobody dying is not the best idea to apply to the story.
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@Miss:
People love to accentuate the negative. That's nothing more than human nature. Nothing to draw statistics about or compare really. Though analyzing stuff honestly is more interesting than just saying "I like it". We're not yes men… at least I hope we're not.
I agree that it is human nature COMPLETELY (this is evident in so, so many things), but I'd also liked to add that sometimes it's harder to put into words why you like something rather than why you dislike something. I don't like to sound generic (and I still sound a lot more generic than I would like to at times), so it frustrates me when the only words I can use to describe why something is good are ones I've already used many times.
When I see a good commercial on TV, I'll say "Huh yeah that was pretty nice." When I see a bad commercial, I'll outline why the idea was bad, the execution… lol.
I'm a commercial connoisseur apparently oh God what I am doing with my life.
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Can I disagree with the Haki thing?
Luffy overpowered 2 Haki users Pre TS,and some guys like the Admirals can only be hurt only by the top tiers of OP.
Tashigi has Haki yet she couldn't do a thing to Law.
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One thing that kinda bothers me about One Piece, which has been around for a while now, is that Oda keeps introducing all these amazing, otherworldly settings… and then I always end up feeling that they end up being sorely underused. Take Skypiea for example: The cloud-islands were in my opinion really cool, and yet after like ten chapters they move to a normal island that's been blasted into the sky, and stay there for the rest of the arc. Fishman Island? Utterly amazing locations... which we hardly see again after Hody makes his move, and the climax of the arc is set in a featureless hole in the ground. Water 7? The climax moves them to a completely different location, which is in itself still pretty cool... but the important fights all take place indoors with the actual features of Enies Lobby being almost entirely irrelevant at that point, save for a few sequences like the end of Franky's fight or Luffy and Lucci's brief fight on the Navy-ships. Oda, you're really good at coming up with these incredibly creative and cool locations, so is it really too much to ask that you spend more time actually showing us them, rather than having each arc ultimately boil down to "Straw Hats fighting a group of quirky yet strong enemies on completely throw-away battlefields"?
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Can the first few people who replied on the first page please post some examples as to why you disagree with FelRes' post? Show me two or three examples of good character development that Luffy has had since the time-skip.
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The thing is that Luffy is pretty much a fully developed character already. There really isn't much more room for major growth. But the thing is, that isn't necessarily a bad thing
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The thing is that Luffy is pretty much a fully developed character already. There really isn't much more room for major growth. But the thing is, that isn't necessarily a bad thing
The guy learnt the balance of power in the OP world first hand at Marineford two years ago, he realised just how weak he was compared to people like Akainu. After such a huge realisation as that, and even after his two years of training, you'd think his character would have become a bit more cautious now, but no. He is still underestimating his opponents, and not trying to understand his enemies before he makes his move. Ceasar being a good example. I know that naivety has always been a part of Luffy's character, but I just thought that after two years he would have become a bit more 'captain-like' I guess.
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Luffy would never have agreed to the timeskip if not for those events but ultimately Luffy is reckless by nature. It is his biggest flaw and I don't know that he'd be a better character without it. The timeskip was in part because Luffy will always be himself, so he needed to be strong enough to handle bad situations
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The thing is that Luffy is pretty much a fully developed character already. There really isn't much more room for major growth. But the thing is, that isn't necessarily a bad thing
thats what i said before.. and i don't want Luffy to jumping out of window and run around like a character in horror comics just because the bad guy become friend with SH crews. all for the sack of character development. we already saw Luffys past, his pain and how he overcome it, and his conclusion.. and from his conclusion we actually already saw how he's become after the timeskip. He still the Luffy we all know for the past 12 years but there are a little different. before he said he will punch the enemy who hurt his friends but after timeskip he want to protect his friends and what they treasures. at the same time he believes in his crews strength more now than before the TS.
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HUGE response
I understand completely that the story's focus isn't definitely on death. I'm even fine with people surviving as long as it isn't random and makes sense in the situation, like I said about Bon Clay and the Galley-La shipwrights. But, Pell's moment for example was an emotional moment, you were supposed to believe he was dead, it was important and it really felt like had a certain impact and weight. I hate fake-outs like these, it's manipulative and cheap. The same happened with the shipwrights/Franky family, we had this sad moment with Franky, but at least in this case it made a lot more sense, even if I still disliked that manipulation. This is why I would really dislike for the G5 marines to survive for example. Their moment was genuinely touching and was meant to have weight.
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About character moments/development... well I find it really tough to criticize that stuff with the TS at this point because every saga starts with a few arcs that are sort of introductions to the whole plot of the saga. Alvida, Morgan, Buggy; Laboon, Whiskey Peak and Little Garden; Davy Back Fight; Thriller Bark and Duval; only one of these had a amazing character development moment, they were mostly action/humor and introduction arcs to the characters related to events of the new saga/lead up to the main event so to say. It has been like that with Fishman Island and Punk Hazard as well. Notice how most of those amazing major moments for characters happen in climatic, built up arcs.. Arlong, then Alabasta, then Water 7/EL, then Marineford. That's why I find it strange that people are complaining about too many characters introduced as well. Remember the whole character load introduced at Jaya, what makes Punk Hazard any different from that? We didn't get to know stuff about freaking Sengoku till Marineford and Kuma till Thriller Bark. -
The guy learnt the balance of power in the OP world first hand at Marineford two years ago, he realised just how weak he was compared to people like Akainu. After such a huge realisation as that, and even after his two years of training, you'd think his character would have become a bit more cautious now, but no. He is still underestimating his opponents, and not trying to understand his enemies before he makes his move. Ceasar being a good example. I know that naivety has always been a part of Luffy's character, but I just thought that after two years he would have become a bit more 'captain-like' I guess.
he have more power than before. his crews are stronger than before. and Luffy believes in them.. and Luffy strives for adventures and freedom. If can't do whatever he likes than there is no point for him to go on adventures. before, they are not prepared. now, they are different. Luffy is not the kind that are bind by the rules. logically and realistically it's stupid but breaking the law, become a pirate is stupid too. turn into enemy of the world is stupid. but you still read this more than 600 chapter of manga.
and character development doesn't mean out-of-character..
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I understand completely that the story's focus isn't definitely on death. I'm even fine with people surviving as long as it isn't random and makes sense in the situation, like I said about Bon Clay and the Galley-La shipwrights. But, Pell's moment for example was an emotional moment, you were supposed to believe he was dead, it was important and it really felt like had a certain impact and weight. I hate fake-outs like these, it's manipulative and cheap. The same happened with the shipwrights/Franky family, we had this sad moment with Franky, but at least in this case it made a lot more sense, even if I still disliked that manipulation. This is why I would really dislike for the G5 marines to survive for example. Their moment was genuinely touching and was meant to have weight.
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About character moments/development... well I find it really tough to criticize that stuff with the TS at this point because every saga starts with a few arcs that are sort of introductions to the whole plot of the saga. Alvida, Morgan, Kuro; Laboon, Whiskey Peak and Little Garden; Davy Back Fight; Thriller Bark and Duval; only one of these had a amazing character development moment, they were mostly action/humor and introduction arcs to the characters related to events of the new saga/lead up to the main event so to say. It has been like that with Fishman Island and Punk Hazard as well. Notice how most of those amazing major moments for characters happen in climatic, built up arcs.. Arlong, then Alabasta, then Water 7/EL, then Marineford. That's why I find it strange that people are complaining about too many characters introduced as well. Remember the whole character load introduced at Jaya, what makes Punk Hazard any different from that? We didn't get to know stuff about freaking Sengoku till Marineford and Kuma till Thriller Bark.i still cannot agree with Pell comment from you.. Pell is my favorite character.. i don't want him to die.. even if that supposed to be his last moment was so cool..:ninja::ninja:
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i still cannot agree with Pell comment from you.. Pell is my favorite character.. i don't want him to die.. even if that supposed to be his last moment was so cool..:ninja::ninja:
Well, that's fine by me.
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I do agree with OP in many points and disagree in others.
Overall I would say that One Piece has lost some steam post time skip. On one side we have the strange pace Oda has been following, sometimes he is rushing all kind of events at once just to slow the pace later like a bad filler in the animated series and only to rush it again without previous notice. It's sort of disconcerting and it makes the arcs much more longer than they should. I personally doubt we'll be able to see something so well built and addicting as the events between Shabondy and Marinejoa, but I hope to be wrong.
Another issue is the lack of emotional impact. Sure, events are getting bigger, with more people involved and focusing more in the depth of the One Piece world, but at the same time losing the "emotional punchs" that were the trademark of the series (the flashbacks with Otohime and Fisher Tiger deaths were really lacking in that aspect, same goes for the ending of Fishman Island arc, too predictable to be amusing) One would think that with events so big in scale and with and added layer of complexity it would be easier to built a really flashy and dramatic outcome but it has not been like that so far.
About the lack of development and interaction of the main characters… Well to be frank that was an issue that was there even before the time skip. To me it was one of the few flaws of One Piece but it was easily overlooked because everything else worked perfectly. It's now that the plots are somehow lacking that we are hoping that the characters would be more rich or had changed more after the time skip and did something else besides cracking the same old jokes. If anything I'm tired of Luffy retardness, he grows dumber by the chapter and it has stopped to be fun a long time ago.
But even when all this may sound too negative I still love One Piece, I still look eagerly for the spoilers and translations every week. It's simply that I become really demanding and unforgiving whith those works I put so much interest in.
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Not enough Doflamingo or Kaido!
But really… My biggest criticism of the series is with the anime, especially the Fishman Island arc. It can be painfully slow, dull, and downright agonizing to watch. Trying to stretch a 19-page chapter into a 25-minute episode, and making the 'filler' to do so nothing but 'bland' dialogue, is horrible. The manga is near-perfect to me, the anime...not so much; I really only watch it because some of my friends watch it.
My only true complaint with the manga is the timeskip. Why? Because it feels like Oda hit the 'reset switch', bringing the series back to a beginning-like state; and, in my opinion, the first few arcs of One Piece were...not good. (I like Punk Hazard so far though).
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Let's see. I don't think we can realy criticise the fights as of yet, seeing the post Timeskip nature of the NFP and how they were never meant to be a large scale threat (meaning relevant to the main story beyond the arc they were in).
One thing I have criticised Oda on alot was the fact he seems to be realy against detailing non Strawhat fights even when these occur. There are exceptions, like pretty much all of Marineford minus Luffy, but it seems like sometimes Oda introduces a character, then hypes them up a bit and has them offscreened. An example here would be Fukaboshi, Ryuboshi and Manboshi. The strongest warriors of Fishman Island, they knocked out several sea kings at once only to be beaten fully offscreen, and then for the rest of the arc served as little else then transportation/conductor for Hody's attacks. Only Fukaboshi even showed off a technique, the two others just slashed with their swords once. It's kind of hard to take characters like this seriously, especialy since they will most likely not be hugely important in the story once their arc is over.
I can partialy understand why Oda doesn't do this, seeing how this is Kubo Tite's modus operandi nowadays which resulted with two of the main cast not being in the series for like two years in real time and not getting an actual fight for like four, not to mention Orihime who I have not seen have a single opponent since just before SS arc which is as early as I have read so far. I understand, but there has to be a middle ground here where promising characters won't be talkd about only to be offscreened and then sidelined for the whole rest of their arc and then pretty much dissapear from the story once it's over.
Similarily, Oda does this with non-combatant characters too. Now there is a chance that Franky's talk with Den had more to it then we've seen, but if not then he's one of the many characters who have not realy done much despite potential. This same thing can be said to be true about most of the FI characters, for example Shirley. You'd think that that little nugget of information about being Arlong's sister would somehow surface again during the arc when some of the SH's would actualy be there to hear it and that it would lead to something.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@The:
My only true complaint with the manga is the timeskip. Why? Because it feels like Oda hit the 'reset switch', bringing the series back to a beginning-like state; and, in my opinion, the first few arcs of One Piece were…not good. (I like Punk Hazard so far though).
Considering the cover of the first post time skip volume Oda seems to be aware of this and has done so intentionaly, and seeing how this is supposed to be the begining of the second phase of the series, that does make sense though.
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umm…am i the only one who is fine with luffy having 8 crewmembers? i dont mind them having "little character development" after time-skip, they still communicate and joke around and they are still in their characters after the time skip anyways, and all of them had their own arcs to introduce and develop their characters....and before the time skip they actually developed greatly in their own ways...
i dont even mind if luffy recruits few more people, since theyre a pirate crew....and im sure those new members (if ever) will be given their own arc for introduction and character development as well....
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I agree with some of the stuff and yeah even with Sanji since from Thriller Bark till Fishmen Island. In between he really had some awesome moments but some stuff was annpying as fuck especially Fishmen Island and the nose bleeds… but hey thanks to Shirahoshi, the only useful thing she did, it stopped and now in Punk Hazard he is just plain awesome with rescuing Kinemon or going against Vergo
Won't change that he is still my Numero 1
And on the other side... And no I love Zoro he is my 2nd fav... I find him a bit "dull" post TS... Pre he had light heart moments with laughing while still maintained to be a complete bad-ass... Somehow now he is more the stoic bad-ass side with his light moments being rare.
The counter to both is seriously Brook. I haven't liked him much pre TS but now he just became awesome as hell
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Okay, I've only read the opening post and I have to say that I agree with you when you say the FMI arc was crap. Because it really was. I hated the FMI arc because the fights were lasting too long and none of the new characters were interesting or important.*
And I also agree that Sanji's developement is just crap, this whole nosebleed thing is annoying as hell.*But I don't think that the pace of the PH arc is too slow! I mean, other arcs before the timeskip were just as long as PH. And I love the PH arc because of the new characters and because it gives me the adventure feeling I've always had when reading good OP arcs. So I can't say OP has reached its weakest point right now, I guess the weakest point was the timeskip and FMI. The quality of the arcs was never consistent, there were many arcs before the timeskip which weren't that great, like Skypiea, DBF and Thriller Bark. So it's only natural that there are arcs and there will be arcs which aren't as good as for example Enies Lobby or the war.
And I don't see that many fanboys here in the forum who defends everything. There are many people here who don't like Sanjis nosebleeding thing or the FMI arc. There are just those few trolling fanboys who are really active on defending OP and Oda. Don't just put everyone here together.
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I still just don't understand that the NOSEBLEED IS annoying if it stopped ever since he saw Shirahoshi and just acted like normal once again. Chopper himself stated it. Of course it was overdone in Fishmen Island arc but it stopped there as well
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@The:
My only true complaint with the manga is the timeskip. Why? Because it feels like Oda hit the 'reset switch', bringing the series back to a beginning-like state; and, in my opinion, the first few arcs of One Piece were…not good. (I like Punk Hazard so far though).
This shit.
Oda hit reset button. He HAD to do it. One Piece, since beginnig was more and more serious with every saga. East Blue was fairly easy. In alabasta Luffy was stomped. In w7, half of the crew was stomped. in TB Luffy's crew was roflstomped, in Sabaody whole crew was rofltomped. The closer to new world they were, the harder it was for them. And they have reached a point, where only dying was worse, and then Ace died. So they went for training, and started again. You can't expect them to go through W7 level of drama and development at beginning of the new world, but I can GUARANTEE you, the closer they will get to Raftel, the harder it will be for them, just like in Paradise. Just give it time, Oda has taken few steps back, but it was necesery, beacause OP reached almost max level of drama and epicness it could, and if he wanted to continue to make next saga even better - he would burn himself out before climax of the series, and he can't allow that, he needs to make every next saga more awesome, more emotional and more epic. -
On top of all these ever present stories that we have to keep track of, there's always the powerful characters in the background, that seem to play a larger part in the New World now. so, 8 Supernovas. Not to mention the Marine characters we actually care about, and the Shichikubai that may or may not appear again.
So…I don't know about you guys but I just wanna see the crew members. It's getting a little crowded in my manga :(
My absolute #1 fear of the new world is that the island-specific drama and stories gets shafted on the altar of supernova/shichibukai/admiral/yonko appearances and plots. Because while it is always interesting to see references to the big boys and big events, ultimately what I remember from One Piece isn't the moments of "OMG Blackbeard got namedropped", but the moments like the Drum Sakura, or the straw hats riding the sleigh down from the mountains. I know OP has always hinted at the "larger picture", but usually only in passing sentences, or towards the beginning/end of an arc. Little Garden was infested with BW agents, but still had a solid focus on the Giants story. Alabasta had tonnes of "greater picture" significance, but ultimately we as readers love the arc and care about the events not because "Crocodiles actions will affect the entire world, I want to see Pluton OMG!" but because we cared about Alabasta and its residents. Again in Drum, we get our first mentions of BB and Ace, but they are just passing remarks, and ultimately have no bearing on the arcs memorability; in comparison, we are now at a point in the series where BB and Ace show up and push the Drum story into the background (figuratively speaking).
I'm just afraid the series will shy away from what made me love an arc like skypea so much- and what propably made fans hate it at the time: The arc being entirely its own thing, disconnected from everything else, and just allowed to be a great, contained, well told story in and of itself.
Lets just say that if Luffy arrives at Elbaf, but suddenly X Drake is there and all conversations sing the tune of KAIDOKAIDOKAIDOKAIDO oh theres original characters and interesting history and story potential here but KAIDOKAIDOKAIDOKAIDO…
my groan will be audible around the world.I do think critic of Sanji posted by FelRes is one-sided. It's true that being over-the-top pervert is bad. But let's remember Sanji is a pirate. Pirates are suppose to act in socially unacceptable way, and being pervert is just that. If Sanji were all chivalrous without being pervy, he would be too perfect for this manga. I believe that making characters ethically questionable is one of the strong points of One Piece. Besides, apart from being pervert Sanji clearly has some qualities as a character and really interesting interactions of lately, most notably with Kinemon, but on FI he has some with Jinbei.
Sanji is a character first, a pirate second. He managed to go 400 chapters being a pirate and likeable, helping liberating cities, averting civil war, and preventing genocide, never committing any real crime. He's a pirate of the "no authority, Freedom!" variety, not the burglaring murderous kind, and saying that he's "supposed to be socially unacceptable" is a copout excuse for how his character has degraded.
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Fishman Island was essentially a story on it's own with only small references to everything else. I doubt shying away from the arc specific stories is something to be afraid of, but at the same time, if there's only focus on the arc-specific stories then the actual main plot will never be able to wrap up. Let's be honest here Skypiea and Little Garden had very few things related to the main plot going on, I mean they were important things, but there is a reason why sometimes people consider especially Skypiea filler. There's just too many plot threads piled up with the main story. I mean currently PH has the children's story and Kinemon's story for arc specific stuff and Law's plan, little hints with Vegapunk and Doflamingo's involvement for the main plot, that alone shows that there's a lot of unsolved stuff.
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XD I think many of us have bad feelings for Fishman Island arc, me too. And some parts of the War were for me uninteresting. Oars Jr. … meh.
To the first post my reaction is something like this:Pacing of the story: I have to agree with you that Fishman Island was not good, and pacing was one of the reasons. It was awkward and it didn't live up to the expectations. However I find Punk Hazard quite good. Just because we are in the New World why can't we have 30-50 chapter long arcs? You find that bad, I don't really care as long as they are good. And I think, they are good. Okay, Fishman Island is an exception. One Piece, just to be clear, is about the adventures, they are the main thing. Whether they kick someone's ass in a chapter or in 3 chapters doesn't concern me as long as they do it in an entertaining way.
Character interaction: I absolutely agree that they should not become one-liner characters, however you cannot really expect them to change their main traits. Of course Luffy will be always a goofy character, of course Zorro will say something cool and get lost etc.. I'm hoping that their interactions will develop later on. I do miss something, which I cannot really put into words, but something about character interaction.
Character development: Pre-time skip, we had a lot. And that goes for every character. Post-time skip: They all have changed in the sense, that now have a very clear aim and they stand very strongly behind it. That is to make Luffy, the Pirate King. That Luffy didn’t have any real challenges on Fishman Island is no wonder, he was trained for two years, I would have been really disappointed if he had any big troubles there. That arc was not about Luffy not winning. Besides, Luffy lost in the war, he lost to Kuma before, for a shounen main character he has lost enough times. What would be the point of him loosing again?
Usopp being scared is a trademark, really. BUT he became much more reliable, just think the previous arcs, he only had chance against Perona! And in Water 7, he was K.O.-ed by Franky Family. But the current Usopp will not be beaten that easily anymore. And that’s a big thing for a person like him.
Yeah, Sanji was terrible on Fishman Island. It was funny at first, but it really did become pathetic. I tried to convince myself that he wasn’t that bad, but I have to admit that his post-traumatic behavior was just baaaaad. In Punk Hazard, however, I welcome the old Sanji and everything that happened to him during this time was good. I was afraid that as Nami he would be beyond stupid, but he was really funny and cool. Unlike in FI. I actually find Sanji vs. Absalom fight great. ^^” But maybe that is just the question of taste.
eats the cookies
Over-abundance of characters:
That’s a characteristic of OP. I don’t mind seeing new characters. ._. It isn’t bad to see that the world is big, there aren’t just a couple of people living on Earth and doing something. In the War, of course there would be zillions of characters running around, and most of them could have their own manga, even if they only had one lines. This is just a proof that the world does not revolve around the Strawhat Pirates, but there are several other pirates who are there to fight and stuff.
Fighting is boring now:
The fighting on Fishman Island wasn’t satisfying at all. I wanted to see so much more. It would have been a shocker and idiotic if they lost on FI. Strawhats always win… I don’t want to get too personal, but have you ever read a freaking shounen manga? Do you know what it is? It is like complaining about the main character solving all the cases in Detective Conan. Or, people are more familiar with Dragon Ball. The good guys always win. They even come back from death! It’s shounen!!! Sorry for yelling. ^^”””
New crew member:
Of course there would be debates about that, look at Nico Robin. Who would have thought (there were people most likely) that she will become a Strawhat? And Monet is on my “maybe a new crewmember list”. Why the hell not? She is evil? Nico Robin!I think liking and disliking something in a manga is really a matter of taste. Besides FI and some War moments, I have no real complaints. Maybe I am satisfied with less. I see problems sometimes, but honestly, I don't mind them that much. I like OP, because even when it has a bad chapter, it is still much better than other mangas having a bad chapter. ^^
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Fishman Island was essentially a story on it's own with only small references to everything else. I doubt shying away from the arc specific stories is something to be afraid of, but at the same time, if there's only focus on the arc-specific stories then the actual main plot will never be able to wrap up. Let's be honest here Skypiea and Little Garden had very few things related to the main plot going on, I mean they were important things, but there is a reason why sometimes people consider especially Skypiea filler. Those people are ignorant. Skypea will be insanely important and tie into a lot of stuff later on. Didn't stop it from being an awesome story when it was first told.
@Kizuchan:There's just too many plot threads piled up with the main story. I mean currently PH has the children's story and Kinemon's story for arc specific stuff and Law's plan, little hints with Vegapunk and Doflamingo's involvement for the main plot, that alone shows that there's a lot of unsolved stuff.
The bolded stuff is what is actually possible to get emotionally engaged in. All the Law stuff is just setup, setup setup, and it drags down the Punk Hazard specific stuff. Its like if Whiskey Peak tried to be both Alabasta setup and its own engaging story, but eventually the Alabasta hype drowned out the rest.
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I've only read a little past the first page, so forgive me if I state something that's already been stated.
One of the reasons that hardly anyone dies in the present time is because an old lady that Oda respects told him not to display death casually because children read it, or something along those lines. That being said, it was mentioned that using the Reject Dial twice is enough to blow one's body apart. Wiper used it three times and got electrocuted by Enel on top of that. It should have just been said that using it too much will blow you apart, without specifying a number. Or a slightly higher number, say 5, could be used, since Wiper wouldn't have gone over that number.
Sanji character development, yes, and also Tashigi. Don't get me wrong, she does have her moments. Blocking Zoro's sword and telling G-5 that rescuing the children is their top priority, for example. Outside of those moments, though, she seems mostly the same as she was when first introduced. I would have thought surviving in the New World and in G-5 would have built self-confidence. I mean general confidence, not just heat of the moment things. Well, she did get Haki, so she has that going for her. Still, though.
Nami's dream is to draw a map of the world, but we've never actually seen her mapping out areas…I think there are certain situations where it could be used on-screen and be helpful to the crew.
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New crew member:
Of course there would be debates about that, look at Nico Robin. Who would have thought (there were people most likely) that she will become a Strawhat? And Monet is on my “maybe a new crewmember list”. Why the hell not? She is evil? Nico Robin!Robin was shown as a character of uncertain alignment from her goddamn introduction, and went on to save Luffys life several times in the Alabasta arc. Monet has shown no such ambiguity, has actually fought Luffy in person, done the evil liplick twice, and just shown that she is willing to trick children into drugging themselves for the sake of producing super soldiers. TOTALLY THE SAME
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@The:
Those people are ignorant. Skypea will be insanely important and tie into a lot of stuff later on. Didn't stop it from being an awesome story when it was first told.
The bolded stuff is what is actually possible to get emotionally engaged in. All the Law stuff is just setup, setup setup, and it drags down the Punk Hazard specific stuff. Its like if Whiskey Peak tried to be both Alabasta setup and its own engaging story, but eventually the Alabasta hype drowned out the rest.
I guess in the end it just comes down to opinion because I had a pretty hard time to care about what's going on with Skypiea, I mean I loved the crew stuff and Enel, didn't care about Kamakiri or Wiper, or any of the priests, though. The location is great, the sense of adventure is great, but I just did not care about the whole plot, especially at the start, when we are just sort of thrown into it. I kind of asked myself "so..why should I care about these guys?" I warmed up to the story with Norland because I liked Cricket, he was a cool character, but I just did not care a bit for the shadians. When Kamakiri was electrocuted, I was sort of.."oh… okay then".
On a positive side, I think Drum did a great job with combining the arc specific stuff(Nami's sickness) and overall story(Chopper, the new crewmember) stuff. Both sides worked well. The Nami stuff and the Chopper stuff respectively, I hope we do get something like that again.
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Interesting thread. I confess that I have "quit" One Piece three different times over the years. One of these breaks was three years long. And now I feel like I'm losing interest once again. My main issue with One Piece at the moment isn't that it's too long, it's that there's no end in sight. We have no idea for how many more years the story is gonna go on. So whenever we face story exposition, it just feels redundant and keeps us from progressing in the story.
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Interesting thread. I confess that I have "quit" One Piece three different times over the years. One of these breaks was three years long. And now I feel like I'm losing interest once again. My main issue with One Piece at the moment isn't that it's too long, it's that there's no end in sight. We have no idea for how many more years the story is gonna go on. So whenever we face story exposition, it just feels redundant and keeps us from progressing in the story.
I personaly have no problem with that aspect, I've been following the series for at least 8 years now.
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@The:
My absolute #1 fear of the new world is that the island-specific drama and stories gets shafted on the altar of supernova/shichibukai/admiral/yonko appearances and plots. Because while it is always interesting to see references to the big boys and big events, ultimately what I remember from One Piece isn't the moments of "OMG Blackbeard got namedropped", but the moments like the Drum Sakura, or the straw hats riding the sleigh down from the mountains. I know OP has always hinted at the "larger picture", but usually only in passing sentences, or towards the beginning/end of an arc. Little Garden was infested with BW agents, but still had a solid focus on the Giants story. Alabasta had tonnes of "greater picture" significance, but ultimately we as readers love the arc and care about the events not because "Crocodiles actions will affect the entire world, I want to see Pluton OMG!" but because we cared about Alabasta and its residents. Again in Drum, we get our first mentions of BB and Ace, but they are just passing remarks, and ultimately have no bearing on the arcs memorability; in comparison, we are now at a point in the series where BB and Ace show up and push the Drum story into the background (figuratively speaking).
I'm just afraid the series will shy away from what made me love an arc like skypea so much- and what propably made fans hate it at the time: The arc being entirely its own thing, disconnected from everything else, and just allowed to be a great, contained, well told story in and of itself.
Lets just say that if Luffy arrives at Elbaf, but suddenly X Drake is there and all conversations sing the tune of KAIDOKAIDOKAIDOKAIDO oh theres original characters and interesting history and story potential here but KAIDOKAIDOKAIDOKAIDO…
my groan will be audible around the world.Sanji is a character first, a pirate second. He managed to go 400 chapters being a pirate and likeable, helping liberating cities, averting civil war, and preventing genocide, never committing any real crime. He's a pirate of the "no authority, Freedom!" variety, not the burglaring murderous kind, and saying that he's "supposed to be socially unacceptable" is a copout excuse for how his character has degraded.
I'm a little bit afraid of that as well. But hey, unlike many other people, I expect Elbaf for example not go that road. Apparently people expect to see there very powerful Giants who will give Luffy a tough fight, but I think they're going to be disappointed just like they were disappointed in FI arc. Elbaf is certainly going to be Ussop-centered arc.
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@The:
Sanji is a character first, a pirate second. He managed to go 400 chapters being a pirate and likeable, helping liberating cities, averting civil war, and preventing genocide, never committing any real crime. He's a pirate of the "no authority, Freedom!" variety, not the burglaring murderous kind, and saying that he's "supposed to be socially unacceptable" is a copout excuse for how his character has degraded.
My point was rather, the fact that character takes some actions that are not socially acceptable, don't automatically make a character bad person. Take Nami, she steals, and has other shortcomings that can be discussed, but still she is helpful and essentially good. Also there is clear difference between socially unacceptable and plainly evil. Stealing, being perverted, getting int fights so on are in socially unacceptable category, murdering people is plainly evil. I personally expect pirates to, even pirates who are "no authority, Freedom" kind to be a little more than just expressing their dislike to law. They may be generally nice, don't want to brake people lives and can be helpful at times, but they are still pirates, not heroes. Having characters that lack serious personality flaws would be disappointing for me. Certain sets of personality flows can by annoying for some people (especially since Oda tents to exaggerate), but it's much better than having overly perfect character. We can discuss if it was wise of Oda to give Sanji this particular flow, but his character needed one.
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My point was rather, the fact that character takes some actions that are not socially acceptable, don't automatically make a character bad person. Take Nami, she steals, and has other shortcomings that can be discussed, but still she is helpful and essentially good. Also there is clear difference between socially unacceptable and plainly evil. Stealing, being perverted, getting int fights so on are in socially unacceptable category, murdering people is plainly evil. I personally expect pirates to, even pirates who are "no authority, Freedom" kind to be a little more than just expressing their dislike to law. They may be generally nice, don't want to brake people lives and can be helpful at times, but they are still pirates, not heroes. Having characters that lack serious personality flaws would be disappointing for me. Certain sets of personality flows can by annoying for some people (especially since Oda tents to exaggerate), but it's much better than having overly perfect character. We can discuss if it was wise of Oda to give Sanji this particular flow, but his character needed one.
I think The Daz's point is that being a pirate is not an excuse to explain a character's obnoxious behavior.
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I think The Daz's point is that being a pirate is not an excuse to explain a character's obnoxious behavior.
Excuse and explanation are different things. I have no interest in the fist in this discussion. You can make an excuse when you treated somebody rudely because had hard day or when you were really in hurry with something important. There is hardly an excuse for adult person being constantly obnoxious. However there may be different explanations for that fact.
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My point was rather, the fact that character takes some actions that are not socially acceptable, don't automatically make a character bad person. Take Nami, she steals, and has other shortcomings that can be discussed, but still she is helpful and essentially good. Also there is clear difference between socially unacceptable and plainly evil. Stealing, being perverted, getting int fights so on are in socially unacceptable category, murdering people is plainly evil. I personally expect pirates to, even pirates who are "no authority, Freedom" kind to be a little more than just expressing their dislike to law. They may be generally nice, don't want to brake people lives and can be helpful at times, but they are still pirates, not heroes. Having characters that lack serious personality flaws would be disappointing for me. Certain sets of personality flows can by annoying for some people (especially since Oda tents to exaggerate), but it's much better than having overly perfect character. We can discuss if it was wise of Oda to give Sanji this particular flow, but his character needed one.
Of course Sanji is not evil. He is not a bad person.
But he has become a badly written character.
Of course characters need flaws, but Sanjis flaw used to be that he swooned over women and could be twisted around Namis little finger. Now his faults include using his time in Namis body to grope her tits, a "Dream" to obtain invisibility just to be a creepy voyeur, and the infamous nosebleed scene. His fault has been exaggarated into obnixiousness.I mean, can you believe a time existed where it was feasible to be a Nami/Sanji shipper? A Sanji/anything shipper?
(*Disclaimer: I myself am not a shipper. I just find it illustrative of the, ahem, "evolution" of the character. -
I'm honestly hoping that a good amount of arcs have a supernova/shichibukai/yonkou/Admiral theme, I mean I don't want everyone single one to be. But that's the big thing about the New World everyone who's strong is gathered there there's huge amounts of characters we need to see and let them have time to shine, it'll just seem stupid if we keep having more and more and more organizations that have top tier people in them who have never been mentioned before. From the broker images it seems like we'll have plenty of new Guys
I'm hoping Elbath and Wano stay their own though, they've been built up as top tier places, although Mihawk having a struggle against samurai would seem pretty cool to me
but back to criticism: I think a couple characters have downgraded since there shine time of there own arcs
Nami: Used to be an insanely interesting character, and a strong female role even without being super powerful, but being cunning she's basically been degraded to fan service and the occasional joke about money. She really went down hill after Skypeia
Chopper: Drum island he was amazing, I was so interested in him, but now he's seem to lost that appeal, he's not so much an intriguing character who wants to fit in and has a "scarred heart", he's all about being cute and being a straight man. He's best when he's motivated and has a reason to fight, his best arcs are no doubt Drum Island, Skypeia, and some good scenes in Thriller Bark. All have to do when he has his own reasons to be angry or want to try to stick out.
Sanji: I still love him as a character but he's rather annoying right now, he needs some more Mr. Prince, sea train like moments. His gags are just getting old.
Franky: He's just doesn't shine as much as he used too. nuff said
Brook: I actually liked that he toned brook down, he was so annoying in the beggining of Thriller Bark, he was just to over the top, a little less spotlight has done him good, he actually was one of the best things about fishman island
all in all it seems the monster trio gets a lot more focus then the other guys, Robin and Usopp need more time to shine too!
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@The:
My absolute #1 fear of the new world is that the island-specific drama and stories gets shafted on the altar of supernova/shichibukai/admiral/yonko appearances and plots. Because while it is always interesting to see references to the big boys and big events, ultimately what I remember from One Piece isn't the moments of "OMG Blackbeard got namedropped", but the moments like the Drum Sakura, or the straw hats riding the sleigh down from the mountains. I know OP has always hinted at the "larger picture", but usually only in passing sentences, or towards the beginning/end of an arc. Little Garden was infested with BW agents, but still had a solid focus on the Giants story. Alabasta had tonnes of "greater picture" significance, but ultimately we as readers love the arc and care about the events not because "Crocodiles actions will affect the entire world, I want to see Pluton OMG!" but because we cared about Alabasta and its residents. Again in Drum, we get our first mentions of BB and Ace, but they are just passing remarks, and ultimately have no bearing on the arcs memorability; in comparison, we are now at a point in the series where BB and Ace show up and push the Drum story into the background (figuratively speaking).
I'm just afraid the series will shy away from what made me love an arc like skypea so much- and what propably made fans hate it at the time: The arc being entirely its own thing, disconnected from everything else, and just allowed to be a great, contained, well told story in and of itself.
Lets just say that if Luffy arrives at Elbaf, but suddenly X Drake is there and all conversations sing the tune of KAIDOKAIDOKAIDOKAIDO oh theres original characters and interesting history and story potential here but KAIDOKAIDOKAIDOKAIDO…
my groan will be audible around the world.I feel exactly the same way. Well put.