Couldn't resist.
Oh wow, those comments on the ANN article.[looks at this thread]
Yeah… okay then.
Does one of those belong to the guy named "Titan" by any chance?
Couldn't resist.
Oh wow, those comments on the ANN article.[looks at this thread]
Yeah… okay then.
Does one of those belong to the guy named "Titan" by any chance?
Yes, I remember Franky, Sunny, Robin & Gears during the Drum arc.
t…they wont do something stupid like that in a tv special right..... right??????
I very much doubt it. And it wasn't really stupid, it was what it was : a retelling, and a very fun one.
This I assume - from the the fact they've only shown the first five crew - will just be a straight adaption of the manga's arlong park arc.
I can't wait to see that bastard Nezumi again. And….. maybe Pudding-pudding.
!
Pfft, and of course, this movie should be great. It'll be in August right? Neat.
I'm surprised how much hate there is for movie 9 here. I thought it was great.
pros about this: Arlong arc? Re-animated? 2 hours?! Holy crap awesome, this will be great!
Con: This is the arc with the "nami! Omae wa ore no nakama da!" scene that kaizoku used as an excuse to start the bullshit "nakama means a bond deeper than family and shouldn't be translated" lie… So we're gonna get more of that ridiculous crap... Uugh
"shipmate, you're my nami"
Con: This is the arc with the "NAMI! OMAE WA ORE NO NAKAMA DA!" scene that Kaizoku used as an excuse to start the bullshit "Nakama means a bond deeper than family and shouldn't be translated" lie… so we're gonna get more of that ridiculous crap... uugh
Uh, Rin… How many subbers besides K-F actually still do that anyway? Granted, I haven't actually been paying much attention to the subbing-scene for quite a while now, (I mean, there's obviously the group I'm actually in, plus FUNi, and neither us or them use that accursed word, and then there's this group called Yonkou that I haven't really been paying any attention to besides seeing a lot of people on the Yibis forum talking about how terrible they are…) but I was under the impression that the whole "Nakama" bullshit was pretty much a thing of the past by now? I doubt that a remake of the scene that started it will somehow cause everyone to start using it again... Especially considering how all the official translations have proven that it's perfectly possible to convey the meaning of that scene in English. Heck, even 4Kids managed to translate that line just fine.
@Vegard:
Uh, Rin… How many subbers besides K-F actually still do that anyway? Granted, I haven't actually been paying much attention to the subbing-scene for quite a while now, (I mean, there's obviously the group I'm actually in, plus FUNi, and neither us or them use that accursed word, and then there's this group called Yonkou that I haven't really been paying any attention to besides seeing a lot of people on the Yibis forum talking about how terrible they are…) but I was under the impression that the whole "Nakama" bullshit was pretty much a thing of the past by now?
Waht´s so bad about "nakama" anyway? I haven´t even noticed that it was there.
@OPF:
Waht´s so bad about "nakama" anyway? I haven´t even noticed that it was there.
Nothing particularly, just the same as the famous "Just according to keikaku(TN Note : keikaku means plan)" pic that was going around, except that some groups starting with KF did it for a good ten years or so, and I guess KF still do. Some fans starting using the term, though that's far less common now that KF are so far behind. Was never a particularly big deal, but it was always wrong.
Two thumbs up for the art
Though it'll be weird to see Hachi as a villain again O.o
I used to confuse "Nakama" and "Okama". It was very weird when I saw Luffy calling his friends drag queens.
@Massimo:
Though it'll be weird to see Hachi as a villain again O.o
True, but look at the bright side–we get to see Johnny and Yosaku again...
Pros about this: Arlong Arc? Re-animated? 2 hours?! Holy crap awesome, this will be great!
Con: This is the arc with the "NAMI! OMAE WA ORE NO NAKAMA DA!" scene that Kaizoku used as an excuse to start the bullshit "Nakama means a bond deeper than family and shouldn't be translated" lie… so we're gonna get more of that ridiculous crap... uugh
Wow that really takes me back.
Yes nami special :wub:
I quite liked the Chopper retelling. Because well… it was the SAME EXACT damned story. And it was beautiful despite the MINOR "what if" circumstances.
But yeah, I'm all for compressed retellings with great animation. It makes it easy for me to get people into the series without a huge amount of episodes, or putting them through OP's god awful old drawing style in the anime. Just as long as it isn't like that Arabasta movie. When you compress a whole arc into a movie, there has to be some liberties taken to make it enjoyable as a film. Simply taking staple scenes and mashing them all together without any sense of pace is just stupid.
True, but look at the bright side–we get to see Johnny and Yosaku again...
Good point .
Do I see people talking smack about Movie 9? You all better watch your mouths.
… OP's god awful old drawing style in the anime.
I liked that art style and it was what got me interested in the series back in the day. I'm a tad disappointed it's not being revisited for this remake, though I suppose its not likely the animation team still is familiar with the old model sheets anyway (assuming they'd still be handy).
@Mr.:
I liked that art style and it was what got me interested in the series back in the day. I'm a tad disappointed it's not being revisited for this remake, though I suppose its not likely the animation team still is familiar with the old model sheets anyway (assuming they'd still be handy).
Well that's kind of funny this is brought up because as I stated in the "Study of Animation" topic waaaay back when I was reviewing the original animation directors Arlong Park experienced a minor art shift, especially in terms of Nami's design. The episodes preceding didn't really emphasize the different animation director's styles nor did it bring out some of the flourishes Noboru Koizumi's original designs had. That all changed with Arlong Park as Nami was drawn with slightly more detail (her hair looked less rubbery, she had a lankier body, she even had more varied expressions) but this also lined up with how Oda did a similar transition in the manga. Generally speaking a lot of what defined One Piece's design became more evident in this arc (like how female characters have dilated eyes when their shocked or emotional) and the animation director's more distinct styles were being developed.
O-chan
Well that's kind of funny this is brought up because as I stated in the "Study of Animation" topic waaaay back when I was reviewing the original animation directors Arlong Park experienced a minor art shift, especially in terms of Nami's design. The episodes preceding didn't really emphasize the different animation director's styles nor did it bring out some of the flourishes Noboru Koizumi's original designs had. That all changed with Arlong Park as Nami was drawn with slightly more detail (her hair looked less rubbery, she had a lankier body, she even had more varied expressions) but this also lined up with how Oda did a similar transition in the manga. Generally speaking a lot of what defined One Piece's design became more evident in this arc (like how female characters have dilated eyes when their shocked or emotional) and the animation director's more distinct styles were being developed.
O-chan
Back when I was a wee lassy, creeping these forums with no username to my..name, I literally thought you were Oda xD
Forgive me I was 12…
Why does nakama need to be translated? Hardly anyone translates "Gomu Gomu no" or "Shichibukai".
''Nakama'' is a normal, everyday Japanese word, and it's used as such. ''Gomu Gomu'' and ''Shichibukai'' are special in-series terminology. That's the best rationale I can give.
I guess… But I don't think it should be translated as "comrade" or "shipmate"... Nakama simply means "one of a group", so in the case of this scene, I think that Luffy should say: "NAMI! YOU'RE ONE OF US!" I believe that one of the official translations says the same thing, I'll have to check.
Why does nakama need to be translated? Hardly anyone translates "Gomu Gomu no" or "Shichibukai".
Why can't this debate ever die? Seriously.
Nakama needs to be translated because there is absolutely no reason for a translator not to translate it. Nakama is not some magical word. It is no different than English users using a word like "friend", "comrade", etc. The only reason One Piece fans feel it has some special word is because of what Kaizoku Fansubs did to brainwash the fanbase with their ridiculous logic. It would be the exact same situation if the Japanese decided to translate the word friend and leave it untranslated for no apparent reason if they were adapting something that was originally in English.
And also, as a translator myself, words that have multiple meanings do not give you an excuse to not translate them. Part of translating is picking the right definition for a given situation. Nakama is no different from the thousands of Japanese and English words that have more than one meaning.
But words that don't sound like words in the English language sounds cool.
Don't take that away from me
It's what makes anime
Unique
and
Interesting
So much hate for KF here.
So much hate for KF here.
I don't hate them, but I do hate their decision. I actually thought their translations were quite good aside from the nakama nonsense.
I understand the hate for KF and it's rationalized. While I'm glad they did an overall well job at subbing One Piece and making it easily available, even providing torrents on their sites for a huge chunk of episodes, they did needless things which only caused confusion. The two biggest examples are "Nakama" and the instance in the Mr. 2 vs. Sanji fight where they edited saliva coughed up to look like blood.
Oh yes, I always forget about that one edit. Why on earth did they feel the need to even do that? That's not what a fansubber is supposed to do.
I just have one question though, when they say 2 hours, does that mean 120 minutes of AP goodness, or are we only going to get 80 minutes?
http://edyics.eecafe.net/meme/plan.jpg
But words that don't sound like words in the English language sounds cool.
Don't take that away from me
It's what makes anime
Unique
and
Interesting
Thats great!
Meh. I don't see why this needs to be done.
But as long as the good animation is consistent and this doesn't turn into Alabasta 2.0, I don't mind.
Nakama needs to be translated because there is absolutely no reason for a translator not to translate it. Nakama is not some magical word. It is no different than English users using a word like "friend", "comrade", etc. The only reason One Piece fans feel it has some special word is because of what Kaizoku Fansubs did to brainwash the fanbase with their ridiculous logic. It would be the exact same situation if the Japanese decided to translate the word friend and leave it untranslated for no apparent reason if they were adapting something that was originally in English.
The worst part of the KF debacle was when they asserted that "nakama" has deeper connotations than family.
If so, why is there an OP song called "Family", and why does Whitebeard use the word "kazoku"? LOL.
Stop the shitty nakama debate. Seriously.
If this turns out good, it would make for a great "Here watch this, THIS is why One Piece is Awesome" showpiece. It lacks the "old looking" animation and also the need to sit thru 13 episodes to get the whole story. a 2-ish hour movie should be bite sized enough to get stragglers to sit through.
Don't feel like checking myself. Was it said when it would play? And by that I mean, is it going to play in place of the episodes? That'd be nice then. Could show them to my new Japanese practice partners. lol, maybe Hiko will be caught up to Arlong by then.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
It's separate from the regular episode schedule.
Well that's kind of funny this is brought up because as I stated in the "Study of Animation" topic waaaay back when I was reviewing the original animation directors Arlong Park experienced a minor art shift, especially in terms of Nami's design. The episodes preceding didn't really emphasize the different animation director's styles nor did it bring out some of the flourishes Noboru Koizumi's original designs had. That all changed with Arlong Park as Nami was drawn with slightly more detail (her hair looked less rubbery, she had a lankier body, she even had more varied expressions) but this also lined up with how Oda did a similar transition in the manga. Generally speaking a lot of what defined One Piece's design became more evident in this arc (like how female characters have dilated eyes when their shocked or emotional) and the animation director's more distinct styles were being developed.
O-chan
Now that you mention it, you're right. While some of the original animation and art styles seemed to persist up to the Arabasta arc, different directorial touches did creep in a bit more around that time. Less noticeable than what would come later, but certainly there.
The worst part of the KF debacle was when they asserted that "nakama" has deeper connotations than family.
If so, why is there an OP song called "Family", and why does Whitebeard use the word "kazoku"? LOL.
That's EXACTLY why it ruins things to leave it in Japanese. It gives extra weight to the word that shouldn't exist, so when someone gets to the Whitebeard parts, it's like "Wait, why does he want Family if 'Nakama' are deeper than family?…"
The worst part of the KF debacle was when they asserted that "nakama" has deeper connotations than family.
If so, why is there an OP song called "Family", and why does Whitebeard use the word "kazoku"? LOL.
That's EXACTLY why it ruins things to leave it in Japanese. It gives extra weight to the word that shouldn't exist, so when someone gets to the Whitebeard parts, it's like "Wait, why does he want Family if 'Nakama' are deeper than family?…"
This is what happens when people try to give special meaning to a word that is basically equivalent to "friend" or "mate" in English, a word people use in English without even giving it a second thought. Because that's what it is, your standard word that gets its meaning across without being too complicated. When KF tried to make it into a word with special meaning behind it, it became something of far greater importance when it was never meant to. I wish they would just leave things how they are meant to be.
I used to support nakama as well back in the days when I first started watching One Piece, and that was because they brainwashed me into thinking that way, which is what is happening to these other people who don't understand a drop of Japanese. After frequenting this forum and learning some Japanese myself, I began to see things more clearer and snapped out of it.
Stop the shitty nakama debate. Seriously.
Hey, we aren't doing it because we like it. But when someone asks us why we don't support it or tries to bring it up in a discussion, those of us who know better will stand up to set things right. It's a must.
That's EXACTLY why it ruins things to leave it in Japanese. It gives extra weight to the word that shouldn't exist, so when someone gets to the Whitebeard parts, it's like "Wait, why does he want Family if 'Nakama' are deeper than family?…"
Funny because I am nakama supporter (guess I haven't been here long enough) and when I got to the WB part I didn't actually care. I was like "oh he wants a family, epic touch to his character" not like "WTF is this?!?!? why doesn't he want nakamaz instead!?!?!?".
It may be because I am trilingual by birth that I support the "leave nakama untranslated" because it has several meanings depending on the situation. I didn't even notice that part about "a bond transcending family", I gave more attention to the "Friend, Comrade, Mate and Companion" alternative translations of the word and thought "Well, after reading this, I don't really mind if they don't translate nakama".
I don't know, maybe I find it more annoying to hear them say "Nakama" and have it translated different every time than that they actually leave it untranslated.
By the way, always when I find anti-nakama posts around the forums there is always the Whitebeard reference, have you ever actually seen someone come with that question?
Funny because I am nakama supporter (guess I haven't been here long enough) and when I got to the WB part I didn't actually care. I was like "oh he wants a family, epic touch to his character" not like "WTF is this?!?!? why doesn't he want nakamaz instead!?!?!?".
It may be because I am trilingual by birth that I support the "leave nakama untranslated" because it has several meanings depending on the situation. I didn't even notice that part about "a bond transcending family", I gave more attention to the "Friend, Comrade, Mate and Companion" alternative translations of the word and thought "Well, after reading this, I don't really mind if they don't translate nakama".
I don't know, maybe I find it more annoying to hear them say "Nakama" and have it translated different every time than that they actually leave it untranslated.
By the way, always when I find anti-nakama posts around the forums there is always the Whitebeard reference, have you ever actually seen someone come with that question?
But that's what a translator is supposed to do. Translate a word with multiple definitions using the best way possible given the situation, even if it means changing the definition when it calls for it. Leaving it untranslated is laziness and is not what a translator is supposed to do. The only exception is terms made official by Oda (or in the case of Haki, I guess Toei?), but nakama has never once been declared as an official in story term by Oda.
Other titles like Shicihibukai and Yonkou, which I feel should be translated, at least make a bit more sense left untranslated because they are in-series titles, but nakama is not that.
It may be because I am trilingual by birth that I support the "leave nakama untranslated" because it has several meanings depending on the situation. I didn't even notice that part about "a bond transcending family", I gave more attention to the "Friend, Comrade, Mate and Companion" alternative translations of the word and thought "Well, after reading this, I don't really mind if they don't translate nakama".
I don't know, maybe I find it more annoying to hear them say "Nakama" and have it translated different every time than that they actually leave it untranslated.
If that explanation worked, then you'd have to apply it to half the words in the Japanese Language.
Tatakai means, Battle, conflict, fight, struggle.
In fact, "Choushou Sensou" is what they call the Whitebeard War in-story. FUNimation translates it as the "War of the Best", Viz translates it as "The Paramount War" and the fansubbers mostly translate it as "The War at the Summit".
Yarou is a word that is derogatory towards someone, like calling someone "That Bastard" or something, but when Luffy rallies the crew he uses it and means it affectionately. It's the exact same word but means two different things in those contexts.
Hige means both Beard and Mustache, they don't have different words for those two things. That's why Whitebeard doesn't have a beard, he has a mustache.
Then there's the reverse with the Japanese words for "I/you". Watashi, Atashi, Boku, Ore.All the guys on the crew use Ore, Brook and Robin use Watashi, Nami uses Atashi. This actually becomes an issue in this series, as Usopp switches from Ore to Boku when he's Sogeking.
Want me to keep going until I've covered the entire Japanese Language?
It's the exact same situation you apply to Nakama, they can mean multiple things depending on the context. If you want to apply that rule to Nakama, you have to apply it to the rest of the language as well. "Oi, Ore wants to ni naru the Kaizoku ou!" looks ridiculous in English fansubs.
Then there's the reverse with the Japanese words for "I/you". Watashi, Atashi, Boku, Ore.All the guys on the crew use Ore, Brook and Robin use Watashi, Nami uses Atashi. This actually becomes an issue in this series, as Usopp switches from Ore to Boku when he's Sogeking.
I actually wish there was a way to convey this…
And continuing off of Rin's points, there are just some things impossible to translate, such as the different forms of various pronouns she mentioned. There are several other less common pronouns as well, such as washi for old men, wakutashi for royalty, jibun (which means self, which I've seen used by wako characters in anime/manga), etc., etc. And don't get me started on the thousands of character speech quirks. It's just impossible to convey all of this in English without it sounding ridiculous. Some of it can be if done right, but others such as the various Japanese endings for characters end up lost in the translation. The only one I could possibly see Funimation doing something with in the dub is Neptune's jamon, and that's only because the characters actually call him out on it.
While I agree that not translating "nakama" was unnecessary and lazy, I don't see why people get so offended over one word. And to call it "brainwashing" is totally melodramatic. I can understand why some people wouldn't want to translate it, but it's a matter of personal opinion and not some scheme to dupe the One Piece fanbase. That's just ridiculous.
As for the whole, bonds between "nakama" are stronger than family, thing, that distinction probably comes from the fact that familial bonds are not always ideal, and the word "family" usually refers to a physical blood relation rather than an emotional connection (though it can sometimes mean more than that, for sure). "Nakama" can mean many things, including crewmates, friends, one of a group, etc. I tend to read it as partners, but even that doesn't really convey the whole meaning. (In other words, it speaks to the emotional connection rather than the physical.) It's not easily translatable. So yes, they should have translated it according to context, but it's not like the decision not to came from stupidity or ulterior motives, they were just trying to translate the series so as to be the most loyal to the original Japanese.
Eh, I prefer nakama to various interpretations of buddy, mate, friend, etc. Mainly because it has many reasons and is more… warm? It adds a charm to One Piece that a lot of anime miss out on by having some words in their native tongue.
Eh, I prefer nakama to various interpretations of buddy, mate, friend, etc. Mainly because it has many reasons and is more… warm? It adds a charm to One Piece that a lot of anime miss out on by having some words in their native tongue.
Uhhh, I'm a little confused by what you mean here.
It adds a charm to One Piece that a lot of anime miss out on by having some words in their native tongue.
I'm pretty sure there are still some "according to keikkaku" subs out there.
Rin! What does the scouter say about the Weaboo levels in this thread?
Not enough desu to trigger my Weaboo meter lol. I'm forever amused that the Nakama thing is still an issue for some.