Needs bigger boobs
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Needs bigger boobs
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Needs bigger boobs
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
How bout they all just walk around naked? im sure that would create a massive growth in Fanbase
Okay so. Yeah. It's not ideal. It's not perfect. But it's leagues better then something like Naruto. And with the exception of ya know Rukia in Bleach. It is in general better then that too.
Character it's not even an issue, they tend to be developed well admittadly a little stock sometimes but with the ones that matter he seems to give them as much attention as his males.
As for strength, Hancock is at absolute worst only weaker then Kuma and Mihawk as far as Shichibukai go and there was never any question in my mind that her power does NOT come from her fruit. Her personality could have been portrayed better but I understand that it was a pot shot at mary-sues so that's fine with me I guess.
That's really all I got.
What do people say about this:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-18/one-piece/chapter-108.html
Zoro beats Miss Monday with joy, casually keeping one hand in his pocket. No problem hitting women, nope. He squeezed her head till freaking foam came out of her mouth, if this isn't unnecessary violence, then I don't know what is.
But then:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2382-3/one-piece/chapter-275.html
Zoro's reaction to Enel electrocuting Robin. Quite the double standard, right? So Miss Monday obviously doesn't have the "I'm a female bonus"
And please guys, don't argue that Miss Monday provoked being beaten like that. Robin declared to kill Enel minutes before she got owned.
Edit: Btw, Enel's answer is so epic. This guy really makes no difference between genders. Both are equally worthless in front of him.
Robin was his nakama and Miss Monday was his enemy, you cant compare those situations -.-
Poor Miss Monday, maybe Zoro haven't realized he is fighting a woman, with how bulky and manly Miss Monday is (it's rather poor excuse). Guess my theory is no 100% accurate
Robin was his nakama and Miss Monday was his enemy, you cant compare those situations -.-
You can perfectly compare the situation. He didn't say "she is my nakama…", he said "she is a woman..."
No matter how you look at it, there is a weird double standard going on and the example proves it. That both lines come from the same character proves it even more.
What do people say about this:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-18/one-piece/chapter-108.html
Zoro beats Miss Monday with joy, casually keeping one hand in his pocket. No problem hitting women, nope. He squeezed her head till freaking foam came out of her mouth, if this isn't unnecessary violence, then I don't know what is.
But then:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2382-3/one-piece/chapter-275.html
Zoro's reaction to Enel electrocuting Robin. Quite the double standard, right? So Miss Monday obviously doesn't have the "I'm a female bonus"
And please guys, don't argue that Miss Monday provoked being beaten like that. Robin declared to kill Enel minutes before she got owned.
Edit: Btw, Enel's answer is so epic. This guy really makes no difference between genders. Both are equally worthless in front of him.
Zoro was displaying that his strength comes from the will of his spirit, as opposed to Ms. Monday's muscles. However, it's really easy to assume sexism from that panel. I guess Oda got some feminist education after that.
As for Zoro catching Robin, perhaps Zoro is just a sexist jerk. The main problem is that I can't recall Zoro ever treating a woman as fairly as he treats men.
Zoro was displaying that his strength comes from the will of his spirit, as opposed to Ms. Monday's muscles. However, it's really easy to assume sexism from that panel. I guess Oda got some feminist education after that.
As for Zoro catching Robin, perhaps Zoro is just a sexist jerk. The main problem is that I can't recall Zoro ever treating a woman as fairly as he treats men.
…..Or because Zoro was fighting an enemy(Ms Monday)
as opposed to reacting to his nakama getting hurt
@Baou:
…..Or because Zoro was fighting an enemy(Ms Monday)
as opposed to reacting to his nakama getting hurt
Of course Zoro caught Robin because she is his nakama.
But thats not the point: he judges Enel for hurting a woman, not his friend. He, who brutally knocked out a female himself chapters ago.
The situation is exactly the same:
Zoro fought a female enemy (Miss Monday) without hesitation.
Enel fought a female enemy (Robin) without hesitation.
Yet Zoro judges Enel for attacking a female. There is no other explanation other than "Miss Monday was too ugly to receive the female bonus".
And as King Canon already said, when a beauty gets hurt its either for the purpose of making you hate the villain (omg, he hurt a woman!) or it isn't comparable to the fights against ugly females. Sending Miss Valentine fly (there wasn't even visible contact) or mildly punching Vivi isn't on the same level.
ANd because I can't say it better than KC: "There was no gomu gomu gatling"
Well, Zoro was attacked by Miss Monday. She nailed him in the head with her brass knuckles.
When push comes to shove, Zoro has to defend himself.
And Enel attacked Robin first. She didn't even get a chance to attack him yet.
Plus, I wouldn't use the word "fought" when you take into consideration that both Robin and Miss Monday got beaten in only one move.
Oda just fucked up and gave one of Sanji's lines to Zoro by mistake. Pretty bad screw up though, considering Zoro's backstory.
Well, Zoro was attacked by Miss Monday. She nailed him in the head with her brass knuckles.
When push comes to shove, Zoro has to defend himself.
And Enel attacked Robin first. She didn't even get a chance to attack him yet.
Well, Miss Monday attacked Zoro, but Robin threatened to kill Enel. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2380-18/one-piece/chapter-273.html
And well, Enel was attacked too. Not by Robin, but by Wiper (and they acted as a group there). Sorry, but this is what you get when you bitch with someone miles ahead of you.
And as to defending yourself…Zoro didn't need to squeeze the shit out of Miss Monday like that. It is exactly the same situation - 2 extremely one-sided "clashes" against women. It is just funny that a line like "she is a woman" comes from someone like Zoro, who had absolutely no problem doing this:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-18/one-piece/chapter-108.html
I mean come on, if you look closer you can even see Zoro's handprint on her face. How disturbingly violent is this please, getting your head squeezed till foam comes out of your mouth?
But look where Zoro had mercy and only used the back of his swords to "defend himself":
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-11/one-piece/chapter-108.html
A kid and a good looking (at least normal looking) female.
!
Gyaaaaaaah!
I didn't think to read so deep into those scenes considering they were really brief and ms. Monday was a antagonistic character and Robin a protagonist. I think some of these complaints here are really overdoing it. Though you could look even deeper in that case and say that since Whiskey Peak Zoro has really softened up as a character and grown to care for his crewmates more. Yes, I'm aware he said "She's a woman", but I still think that he jumped to her defense because he wasn't so suspicous of her anymore.
I didn't think to read so deep into those scenes considering they were really brief and ms. Monday was a antagonistic character and Robin a protagonist. I think some of these complaints here are really overdoing it. Though you could look even deeper in that case and say that since Whiskey Peak Zoro has really softened up as a character and grown to care for his crewmates more. Yes, I'm aware he said "She's a woman", but I still think that he jumped to her defense because he wasn't so suspicous of her anymore.
But I don't understand the Nakama argument, wether he cares for his crewmates or Robin in particular isn't the point. I don't doubt that he jumped to her defense because she is his crewmate, not in the slightest. I also believe that the whole Skypiea arc was meant to strengthen then bond between Zoro and Robin, since Zoro was basically the only one who still had trouble with her joining the crew.
It is all about Zoro lecturing Enel that he just attacked a woman.
But I don't understand the Nakama argument, wether he cares for his crewmates or Robin in particular isn't the point. I don't doubt that he jumped to her defense because she is his crewmate, not in the slightest. I also believe that the whole Skypiea arc was meant to strengthen then bond between Zoro and Robin, since Zoro was basically the only one who still had trouble with her joining the crew.
It is all about Zoro lecturing Enel that he just attacked a woman.
Well, Zoro refused to kill Tashigi. Then again, that might have been because she looks like Kuina, not cause she's a woman. Zoro really hasn't had any female opponents who isn't Tashigi, so we don't know how he'd react. That or Oda really was being sexist, I don't know.
Edit: Ah, I totally didn't take Kuina into consideration even though I just mentioned her. He respected her after all. So yeah, that might have been a little sexist/out of Zoro's character, but not that big of a deal, imo because it's not lingered on.
Zoro doesn't seem to believe in the "man is stronger than woman" cliche either seeing as he called it BS when Kunai brought it up in the past. But I don't think it was out of character for him to lecture Enel about attacking Robin though. It seemed to be more of a "honor" thing for him attacking a woman brutally without real reason, rather than the sexism Sanji goes by.
Well, Miss Monday attacked Zoro, but Robin threatened to kill Enel. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2380-18/one-piece/chapter-273.html
Threatening to attack someone and actually attacking them are two completely different things.
And well, Enel was attacked too. Not by Robin, but by Wiper (and they acted as a group there). Sorry, but this is what you get when you bitch with someone miles ahead of you.
Except this is Enel we're talking about. He probably would have killed them all if they refused his request to eliminate one of their own. And they did.
You can't compare Zoro, a man who only fights when he has to, to Enel, a psychotic man with a God complex who wouldn't hesitate to kill anyone who doesn't agree with him.
And as to defending yourself…Zoro didn't need to squeeze the shit out of Miss Monday like that. It is exactly the same situation - 2 extremely one-sided "clashes" against women. It is just funny that a line like "she is a woman" comes from someone like Zoro, who had absolutely no problem doing this:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-18/one-piece/chapter-108.html
I mean come on, if you look closer you can even see Zoro's handprint on her face. How disturbingly violent is this please, getting your head squeezed till foam comes out of your mouth?
But look where Zoro had mercy and only used the back of his swords to "defend himself":
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-11/one-piece/chapter-108.html
A kid and a good looking (at least normal looking) female.
! http://s7.directupload.net/images/120225/54bv6rpy.gif
Gyaaaaaaah!
I'm sorry, but this is One Piece. Squeezing someone's skull until they lose consciousness isn't even the worst of the things they could happen to someone. It's pretty tame in comparison. Hell, Zoro could have taken out his swords and cut her if he wanted to.
But I don't understand the Nakama argument, wether he cares for his crewmates or Robin in particular isn't the point. I don't doubt that he jumped to her defense because she is his crewmate, not in the slightest. I also believe that the whole Skypiea arc was meant to strengthen then bond between Zoro and Robin, since Zoro was basically the only one who still had trouble with her joining the crew.
It is all about Zoro lecturing Enel that he just attacked a woman.
Dude have you ever read One Piece? can you differentiate between a story and a characterization? a good writing and a bad one? 1 spur of moment of 1 character saying something like " you attacked a women" or "hit a women" is just a personality, a characterization. nothing more. and that comment is for his friend while at the same time we know that he had no problem hitting a woman if she's an enemy.
I understand you guys just want to win an argument and willingly to do anything for it but please, think before you spout nonsense.
"oh hey, Luffy the main protagonist only like to eat meat so Oda must really hate vegetarian".. see what I did there?
i can't say anything if you just complaining about zoro is sexist and only hit ugly woman or whatever but saying Oda is sexist because of that is stupid when everybody that actually read One Piece rather than just trying to win an argument know that women in One Piece is very strong willed, independent and awesome.
and as a human sometimes we have to accept something on who they are and treat them as they are. man is man, women is women. kids are kids. old people are old people. we cannot asked man to pregnant. we cannot bring our 10 years old daughter to men toilet when they want to pee. and One Piece is a good story. full with colorful characters, tons of personality and background. don't discredit it just because you want to win an argument. and you gave a very poor example too.
I do feel that Zoro telling Enel off seemed a bit backwards in his normal ideology. But I don't think the Ms. Monday fight was too bad. He was being pretty sadistic that whole time anyways. Next chapter he hits Vivi by throwing Mr.9 at her lol. And he's not above saying harsh stuff to women either. He keeps getting called a demon by people for a reason.
Oda doesn't really seem to hold back on the violence. Ms. Monday later gets clotheslined/exploded by Mr.5. And Luffy backhands Ms. Valentine off into the air. I don't really see a difference in how he handles fodder characters if they are male or female. But yes, Zoro lecturing Enel was out of place for him. It woulda been fine if he said my Nakama or whatever. I still think while we haven't seen too many top tiered female fighters, he does a good enough job doing right by them most of the time.
Of course Zoro caught Robin because she is his nakama.
But thats not the point: he judges Enel for hurting a woman, not his friend. He, who brutally knocked out a female himself chapters ago.The situation is exactly the same:
Zoro fought a female enemy (Miss Monday) without hesitation.
Enel fought a female enemy (Robin) without hesitation.
Yet Zoro judges Enel for attacking a female. There is no other explanation other than "Miss Monday was too ugly to receive the female bonus".
And as King Canon already said, when a beauty gets hurt its either for the purpose of making you hate the villain (omg, he hurt a woman!) or it isn't comparable to the fights against ugly females. Sending Miss Valentine fly (there wasn't even visible contact) or mildly punching Vivi isn't on the same level.
ANd because I can't say it better than KC: "There was no gomu gomu gatling"
And this is why I'm looking forward for the upcoming Big Mom fight. Big Mom is the epitome of ugliness, so I'm sure Oda won't be hesitant to make Luffy go Elephant Gun on her ass (sorry for the mental images).
Really, before Jabra reminded me of the Zoro vs. Ms. Monday fight and Zoro lecturing Enel, I thought the whole violence against females was too ambiguous to really judge, but now I find the whole thing very suspicious…
Luffy beating the crap out of Alvida with a named attack.
Zoro torturing Ms. Monday, but lecturing Enel for hurting a (good-looking) woman.
Luffy fighting only the ugly Boa Sisters (and after they become even uglier Human\Snake Hybrids, no less).
Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).
Not saying that this is definite proof that Oda is sexist when it comes to violence against females, but I'm having a hard time believing the opposite.
Yeah, Zoro's line to Enel was conspicuously off; way to disrespect Kuina's memory.
I've always wanted Oda to give a female-associated df to a male who has to cope with it, I mean come on, it's too convenient that only females get laundry/love/etc abilities. He could pull it off, and it'd be hilarious.
And this is why I'm looking forward for the upcoming Big Mom fight. Big Mom is the epitome of ugliness, so I'm sure Oda won't be hesitant to make Luffy go Elephant Gun on her ass (sorry for the mental images).
Really, before Jabra reminded me of the Zoro vs. Ms. Monday fight and Zoro lecturing Enel, I thought the whole violence against females was too ambiguous to really judge, but now I find the whole thing very suspicious…
Luffy beating the crap out of Alvida with a named attack.
Zoro torturing Ms. Monday, but lecturing Enel for hurting a (good-looking) woman.
Luffy fighting only the ugly Boa Sisters (and after they become even uglier Human\Snake Hybrids, no less).
Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).
Not saying that this is definite proof that Oda is sexist when it comes to violence against females, but I'm having a hard time believing the opposite.
What about Ms Valentine? (Although that's the only counter-example I can think of..)
And this is why I'm looking forward for the upcoming Big Mom fight. Big Mom is the epitome of ugliness, so I'm sure Oda won't be hesitant to make Luffy go Elephant Gun on her ass (sorry for the mental images).
Really, before Jabra reminded me of the Zoro vs. Ms. Monday fight and Zoro lecturing Enel, I thought the whole violence against females was too ambiguous to really judge, but now I find the whole thing very suspicious…
Luffy beating the crap out of Alvida with a named attack.
Zoro torturing Ms. Monday, but lecturing Enel for hurting a (good-looking) woman.
Luffy fighting only the ugly Boa Sisters (and after they become even uglier Human\Snake Hybrids, no less).
Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).
Not saying that this is definite proof that Oda is sexist when it comes to violence against females, but I'm having a hard time believing the opposite.
Ms. Valentine, Perona and Vivi are exceptions, I guess? To some degree Tashigi and Kuina, too. But it's pretty rare. It's not a big deal, though, because aside from Sanji and that one comment by Zoro none of the other crewmembers don't seem to have problems hitting women, if they're evil. Ugly or not.
What about Ms Valentine? (Although that's the only counter-example I can think of..)
Ms. Valentine, Perona and Vivi are exceptions, I guess? To some degree Tashigi and Kuina, too. But it's pretty rare.
Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).
Ms. Valentine: Regular Punch by Luffy.
Vivi: Regular Punch by Luffy.
Perona: She was hurt? I don't remember.
Compare with what Robin went through against Yama, Enel and Spandam.
Ms. Valentine: Regular Punch by Luffy.
Vivi: Regular Punch by Luffy.
Perona: She was hurt? I don't remember.Compare with what Robin went through against Yama, Enel and Spandam.
I guess it's bad that if there are normal looking women, who can fight, they have an hax ability or know to use it to their advantage, so nobody could really hit them?
The violence thing just such a minor thing and it almost never gets brought up(aside from Sanji and that one comment by Zoro), like you said it's mostly ambiguous. Maybe it's bad that there are only a few instances of it, but personally, don't really see a problem here because in every other aspect female characters are treated just like male characters, hell it's unusual for a shounen to see strong male characters like Ace and Luffy be so weak and useless like in the Marineford arc.
Treating people the same way is not equivalent on treating them equally. Differentpeople need to be dealt with different way, as they have different needs andcapabilities. Treating women in different way as treating men is not exactlysexist. Sexist is saying that women should stay in the kitchen, treat them ashouse servants, saying that they need to fit to ideal beauty worth anything andforbidding them something, claiming it's inappropriate or unheard of theirgender. But sexist is also demand from them to act the same way as men do. Itis very common now, if you are not compete with men, if you have differentvalues, different kind of rational thinking, then you are treated as lessworth, stupid, illogical. At the same time you have of course look nicely or atleast show that you care for your appearance, and if you are old enough you also have to take care for house and children. Sure men agreed to treatus fairy, but only if we will become educated white male with just differentbody shape. Equality is just an illusion in modern world, as every part ofculture and mentality seen as feminine is from the start treated as lessworthy. Just look at what we are discussing - fighting capabilities and how aredifferent females handled during the fight, we are largely basing our opinionon that - we are judging female characters upon something that is seen as manlydomain (that, and we also discuss appearance /fanservice issues) . Of course inadventurous stories like One Piece fighting important, I won't deny it. Butit's not something we should concentrate on. We should concentrate more onpsychology and interpersonal relationships - those things are more in femaledomain. Yeah, I know, this matters have already been brought up by severalposters, but it's still minority, and didn't have wider response.
And yeah, Iagree, Zoro has sexist attitude. Still he probably is better than average reallife dude (sorry guys for harsh opinion on you, but let me say, you may not beaverage, so don’t take it to yourselves). That does mean automatically that Odais sexist.
@KingCannon – a punch is a punch, Luffy used regular punch against Bellamy andagainst Tenryubito as well – he didn't need to use more.
@Kizuchan –you're right the point was to show that strong, badass men may need help to, because nobody isinvincible and almighty, even if they are men.
Treating people the same way is not equivalent on treating them equally. Differentpeople need to be dealt with different way, as they have different needs andcapabilities. Treating women in different way as treating men is not exactlysexist. Sexist is saying that women should stay in the kitchen, treat them ashouse servants, saying that they need to fit to ideal beauty worth anything andforbidding them something, claiming it's inappropriate or unheard of theirgender. But sexist is also demand from them to act the same way as men do. Itis very common now, if you are not compete with men, if you have differentvalues, different kind of rational thinking, then you are treated as lessworth, stupid, illogical. At the same time you have of course look nicely or atleast show that you care for your appearance, and if you are old enough you also have to take care for house and children. Sure men agreed to treatus fairy, but only if we will become educated white male with just differentbody shape. Equality is just an illusion in modern world, as every part ofculture and mentality seen as feminine is from the start treated as lessworthy. Just look at what we are discussing - fighting capabilities and how aredifferent females handled during the fight, we are largely basing our opinionon that - we are judging female characters upon something that is seen as manlydomain (that, and we also discuss appearance /fanservice issues) . Of course inadventurous stories like One Piece fighting important, I won't deny it. Butit's not something we should concentrate on. We should concentrate more onpsychology and interpersonal relationships - those things are more in femaledomain. Yeah, I know, this matters have already been brought up by severalposters, but it's still minority, and didn't have wider response.
And yeah, Iagree, Zoro has sexist attitude. Still he probably is better than average reallife dude (sorry guys for harsh opinion on you, but let me say, you may not beaverage, so don’t take it to yourselves). That does mean automatically that Odais sexist.
@KingCannon – a punch is a punch, Luffy used regular punch against Bellamy andagainst Tenryubito as well – he didn't need to use more.
@Kizuchan –you're right the point was to show that strong, badass men may need help to, because nobody isinvincible and almighty, even if they are men.
Dude.. seriously.. yo ae wasting your time.. just forget it..
Dude.. seriously.. yo ae wasting your time.. just forget it..
No, hardly, I'm just saying what I want to say, it can't be considered waste of time. Besides if we think discussion is a waste of time things are never gonna change. I'm aware I may annoy the hell of some people, but if I accept people who annoy me with (in my opinion) their shortsighted vision or lack of imagination, I can't see why other people would not put up with me.
we cant treat women in the exact same way simply because they are not the exact same. Women cant piss while standing up. Just get used to the idea that just cus Oda doesn't make the women strong physical fighters doesn't mean OP is sexist.
we cant treat women in the exact same way simply because they are not the exact same. Women cant piss while standing up. Just get used to the idea that just cus Oda doesn't make the women strong physical fighters doesn't mean OP is sexist.
I fail to see how that's relevant.
I agree with everything else. Just as someone can't treat a child and an elderly man/woman the same, one cannot treat men and women the same way. We should find balance and try to treat people by their personalities rather than their genders.
I fail to see how that's relevant.
I agree with everything else. Just as someone can't treat a child and an elderly man/woman the same, one cannot treat men and women the same way. We should find balance and try to treat people by their personalities rather than their genders.
And moustaches must always be present?
Not all women have natural moustaches. Some don't.
I fail to see how that's relevant.
I agree with everything else. Just as someone can't treat a child and an elderly man/woman the same, one cannot treat men and women the same way. We should find balance and try to treat people by their personalities rather than their genders.
All I was trying to say was that no matter how much people scream about equality, fundamentally the two genders are different. Not saying one is better than the other, just different. Therefore we shouldn't demand that Oda treat the two the same way, i.e. Nami doesn't need to have the brute strength that Zoro does, etc.
All I was trying to say was that no matter how much people scream about equality, fundamentally the two genders are different. Not saying one is better than the other, just different. Therefore we shouldn't demand that Oda treat the two the same way, i.e. Nami doesn't need to have the brute strength that Zoro does, etc.
As I said, I agree with this, I only found it strange how you mentioned the pissing thing which seemed a little out of place.
@DarkFalcon:
Not all women have natural mustaches. Some don't.
Define "natural".
@YouDNewb:
And moustaches must always be present?
Moustaches are beyond gender~
I like how they are portrayed, they show they are strong at heart even with a cute side which is the general female characteristic; they can be just as intimidating as men.
Nami beats the crap out of everyone and takes charge, she's not the strongest fighter but her heart is as big as Luffy's, thats what separates her from most women.
Robin is the most Courageous woman in One Piece and is insanely Book smart to the point she has an advantage in quickthinking which is why she kicks so much ass to many men before and now.
Define "natural".
In the case of moustaches "natural" means they will grow on their own, without sticking them to the face with glue or applying some hair grow lotion. The best most women can achieve is frail stubble under nose in their older age. Sorry.
In the case of moustaches "natural" means they will grow on their own, without sticking them to the face with glue or applying some hair grow lotion. The best most women can achieve is frail stubble under nose in their older age. Sorry.
I used duct tape and my own hair.
And it worked!
It's cool, but still that hair hadn't grown under your nose… I feel we've go a little off topic
You can perfectly compare the situation. He didn't say "she is my nakama…", he said "she is a woman..."
No matter how you look at it, there is a weird double standard going on and the example proves it. That both lines come from the same character proves it even more.
If some one electrocutes my girl friend I'll get more pissed off than if they do so to my male friend. However if a girl comes swinging at me, and I can electrocute her, I'll do it. Double standard, but a realistic one. At least, that's how I see it.
Lessee..
Luffy: Loses his brother in front of him to murder.
Zoro: Loses fighting partner to sickness.
Sanji: Anger management issues.
Usopp: Bullied and a liar.
Chopper: Bullied.
Brook: Lost his entire crew.
Franky: Lost his mentor, went street punk.
Nami: No real parents, loses adoptive mother in front of her, trust issues.
Robin: Abandonment issues, loses mother in front of herself, pushed away for her own safety.
Others -
Hancock: Enslaved, possibly raped from a young age, trust issues
Jimbei: Enslaved, trust issues..
I think the women are treated just as equally as the men in the series… Oda's just a glutton for tragic upbringings and how they handle things now.
Lessee..
Luffy: Loses his brother in front of him to murder.
Zoro: Loses fighting partner to sickness.
Sanji: Anger management issues.
Usopp: Bullied and a liar.
Chopper: Bullied.
Brook: Lost his entire crew.
Franky: Lost his mentor, went street punk.
Nami: No real parents, loses adoptive mother in front of her, trust issues.
Robin: Abandonment issues, loses mother in front of herself, pushed away for her own safety.Others -
Hancock: Enslaved, possibly raped from a young age, trust issues
Jimbei: Enslaved, trust issues..I think the women are treated just as equally as the men in the series… Oda's just a glutton for tragic upbringings and how they handle things now.
Jinbe was enslaved? I don't remember this at all.
And come on, the concept of sexism is flawed. One can not treat a girl the same way they treat a man. Specially a pretty girl. Simply because one would feel even the slightest bit sexually atracted to her, while the same wouldn't happen to a man, or an ugly woman.
You might get over it and punch her straight in the face, but that's not something most man can do. But even in non-fighting terms that works. You can simply tell a random dude in the street to fuck off when he accidentally jostles you, but you won't do that if it's a pretty girl doing it.
Girls and Boys ARE different. Treating them equally is not something we should aim for. Respect, that's all that is needed.
So Oda portrays only sexy women, how's that bad? I prefer to draw sexy women, I prefer see sexy women, why should I draw non-sexy women? Accurate portray of reality? Sure. But would I have a guy beating them like there is no tomorrow. Specially a guy that the audience is suposed to love? No. I mean, even if the girl is the biggest bitch, most man would still feel some pitty for her, and that could turn into hate for the main character.
So what wouldn't be sexist?
A work where girls behave exactly like boys? That sounds more sexist to me. A work where girls can do whatever they want? Exactly! A work where all girls are equally beautiful, or all have pretty and not so pretty things about them? That would be realistic, but it has nothing to do with sex descrimination. Prolly descrimination against ugly women/ or man if we look at it that way, but, hey, everyone descriminates against ugly women? Right? Right? Even uglier women do so [speaking from experience, what matters is the inside is a bunch of bullshit and no one follows that. If you're dating a guy is because you think he's beautiful, or, at least, so-so].
Heck I don't get all this issues with descrimination and prejudice. Is wrong to kill you cause you're black. It's wrong to lock you in a kitchen cause you're a woman. Giving you barbies cause you're a woman is not bad. Giving you girly super powers because you're a woman is not bad. And this whole women's movement sounds like women got jelly. I mean man are much more affected by sexism in my point of view. Girl plays with boys toys "oh she's a tom-boy", boy plays with barbies "gay!! homo!!! . Girl is strong and punches a guy in the face "slow clap.gif", guy is weak and prefers to avoid violence, "PUSSY!". And I'm not going to enter birth rights, cause that is completly unrelated.
It's not like those steriotypes were created by man to keep woman "in check". It was simply what women liked, what women were more able to do, what women preferred to do. Obviously everything went really overboard, and women were really treated worse than man by society. But today that DOES NOT happen. As long as they can do whatever they want, they have the right to vote, the right to work, the right to divorce. And they can abort without the father giving permission (the father can't do that, of course, and is treated as an asshole by society if he asks her to do it). So, yeah, women in OP do girly stuff, are pretty, and who the fuck would prefer to see man with boobs and pussy instead of women? And this is about the way the author treats women, not the way other character's treat women, so some characters preferring not to hit them is not the point. And double standarded characters are also not the point.
So ways women are portrayed?
I hate the way Oda draws feet. They're to angled, and not quite sexy. :/
Lessee..
Luffy: Loses his brother in front of him to murder. (Trained under brutal conditions, nearly drowns, costs his mentor his arm).
Zoro: Loses fighting partner to sickness. (Rival/friend dies to broken neck).
Sanji: Anger management issues. (Dying from starvation, savior gives his own leg for food).
Usopp: Bullied and a liar. (Father famous pirate gone for years, sick mother dies waiting).
Chopper: Bullied. (Mentor also dies).
Brook: Lost his entire crew.
Franky: Lost his mentor, went street punk.
Nami: No real parents, loses adoptive mother in front of her, trust issues.
Robin: Abandonment issues, loses mother in front of herself, pushed away for her own safety.Others -
Hancock: Enslaved, possibly raped from a young age, trust issues
Jimbei: Enslaved, trust issues..(Hated, betrayed by humans).I think the women are treated just as equally as the men in the series… Oda's just a glutton for tragic upbringings and how they handle things now.
Just gonna add a few things…
He does like the tragic upbringings. He seems to have the Disney complex of orphans and killing off mothers lol. So yes, he's fairly equal in that treatment.
@gotta<3OP:
And come on, the concept of sexism is flawed. One can not treat a girl the same way they treat a man. Specially a pretty girl. Simply because one would feel even the slightest bit sexually atracted to her, while the same wouldn't happen to a man, or an ugly woman.
You might get over it and punch her straight in the face, but that's not something most man can do. But even in non-fighting terms that works. You can simply tell a random dude in the street to fuck off when he accidentally jostles you, but you won't do that if it's a pretty girl doing it.
Girls and Boys ARE different. Treating them equally is not something we should aim for. Respect, that's all that is needed.So Oda portrays only sexy women, how's that bad? I prefer to draw sexy women, I prefer see sexy women, why should I draw non-sexy women? Accurate portray of reality? Sure. But would I have a guy beating them like there is no tomorrow. Specially a guy that the audience is suposed to love? No. I mean, even if the girl is the biggest bitch, most man would still feel some pitty for her, and that could turn into hate for the main character.
So what wouldn't be sexist?
A work where girls behave exactly like boys? That sounds more sexist to me. A work where girls can do whatever they want? Exactly! A work where all girls are equally beautiful, or all have pretty and not so pretty things about them? That would be realistic, but it has nothing to do with sex descrimination. Prolly descrimination against ugly women/ or man if we look at it that way, but, hey, everyone descriminates against ugly women? Right? Right? Even uglier women do so [speaking from experience, what matters is the inside is a bunch of bullshit and no one follows that. If you're dating a guy is because you think he's beautiful, or, at least, so-so].Heck I don't get all this issues with descrimination and prejudice. Is wrong to kill you cause you're black. It's wrong to lock you in a kitchen cause you're a woman. Giving you barbies cause you're a woman is not bad. Giving you girly super powers because you're a woman is not bad. And this whole women's movement sounds like women got jelly. I mean man are much more affected by sexism in my point of view. Girl plays with boys toys "oh she's a tom-boy", boy plays with barbies "gay!! homo!!! . Girl is strong and punches a guy in the face "slow clap.gif", guy is weak and prefers to avoid violence, "PUSSY!". And I'm not going to enter birth rights, cause that is completly unrelated.
It's not like those steriotypes were created by man to keep woman "in check". It was simply what women liked, what women were more able to do, what women preferred to do. Obviously everything went really overboard, and women were really treated worse than man by society. But today that DOES NOT happen. As long as they can do whatever they want, they have the right to vote, the right to work, the right to divorce. And they can abort without the father giving permission (the father can't do that, of course, and is treated as an asshole by society if he asks her to do it). So, yeah, women in OP do girly stuff, are pretty, and who the fuck would prefer to see man with boobs and pussy instead of women? And this is about the way the author treats women, not the way other character's treat women, so some characters preferring not to hit them is not the point. And double standarded characters are also not the point.So ways women are portrayed?
I hate the way Oda draws feet. They're to angled, and not quite sexy. :/
Interesting thing you have written (my observations don't agree with yours, that may be due to different socio-cultural experience and you've haven't realized the cause of social phenomenon you've observed) I'd like to discuss the matter further, especially since what you have written is to big to leave unanswered, however it would go too far away from topic of this tread and we are not on the forum dedicated to social thinking. But I also many things I would like to say would come out of what I have stated earlier.
What surprised me is you remark about feet. Frankly I haven't given it much thought. I think it's the matter oh art style. Does this really bother you so much?
I'd much rather discuss the way characters are created, how they develop, social interactions, philosophical basis and relation comparison the way they are shown in the manga and history.
Is there thread "how are men portray in OP". If not I have interesting (rhetorical) question for the all the posters: why is that?
I should stop messing with your heads (I probably should kick myself every time I do that). Now I'll be substantial. Is there anyone who wants to discuss characteristics separately?
Oda's not truly the best when it comes to women in this story. His best wench will be Big Mom, and that's easy to do because he's making her out to be some sadistic dominatrix.
Thinking about it, I'm not that upset about Oda not making many "top" women. Hard to explain, but I don't think he handles it wrong. There are strong or respected women everywhere (Tsuru, Big Mom, Hancock etc.) and that's enough for me to be honest.
Thinking about it, I'm not that upset about Oda not making many "top" women. Hard to explain, but I don't think he handles it wrong. There are strong or respected women everywhere (Tsuru, Big Mom, Hancock etc.) and that's enough for me to be honest.
Yeah I'm completely with you on that, definitely nothing wrong with it at all. Plus, Bellemere is a total badass.
Is there a reason why no one ever mentions Hina when it comes to strong women in OP? I think she is badass and her DF has the potential to be extremely broken.
!
And just to add some fuel to the fire…
! "The cage of marriage"
Hina is one of those underrated characters who don't get enough screentime. Hopefully she'll play a bigger part now or even join G5.
Tsuru, although old, might have one of the more hax devil fruit powers too. Plus she is kind of like a badass old lady.