@The:
I think a new thread title is in order.
Something snout related.
I nominate "The Amazing (500) Days of Snouts That Can't Convey Emotions"
@The:
I think a new thread title is in order.
Something snout related.
I nominate "The Amazing (500) Days of Snouts That Can't Convey Emotions"
Because it shows the director has a very bad mentality to the movie. It shows that the director does not know or care about the world and characters which are pretty much iconic. It shows that director is less interested in translating the comics into the big screen and being faithful to the comics and the fans and more interested in squeezing his own "artistic vision" and he doesn't care how he mutilates the world and the characters to do it. It shows he doesn't understand the world and how the characters fit into it, the tone the movie should take, the fundamentals needed to make a good comic book movie. Basically it shows he doesn't give a shit. Many an adaptation has gone bad because of this lack of understanding. Because they don't understand it, they try hard to inject elements into the movie to try and make sense of it. They're ashamed of this "cartoony" show they're working with and try to force plot contrivances to try and make it more "adult-like".
And in the end, we get a completely unrecognizable product that is nothing like the original we all love and care about. We get a Super Mario Brothers movie where Mario and Luigi are father and son and have to fight Dennis Hopper in an alternate universe run by dinosaurs or Smurfs in a modern day city. It's this attempt at rationalization that gives shitty adaptations more than anything else. Just stick to the material, take it for what it is and don't take it seriously, you can't take it seriously. You have a guy swinging around New York in rubber tights, the first mistake you do is taking it seriously. You need to accept it for what it is and have fun with it, that's the whole point of the movie. It's why Avengers was so great because it knew what it was, it swam in it and gave an incredible experience because of it. Dark Knight took itself too seriously and it almost back-fired in a way but luckily Batman was always the most grounded of the franchises with the most serious and dark tone so Nolan's direction kinda worked but it could have been a better movie like Batman Begins if it tried a lighter tone.
Now I'm not saying this movie is gonna suck, it might be great. The director might have done a good amount of research or he was competent enough in filming an effective and well-put together movie even if not too faithful. We'll see. I'm merely explaining the reasoning why we're getting a little anxious about these comments we're getting about how he's trying to make a "serious" movie. And I want this movie to succeed, we need a good Spider-Man movie after 3. A positive reception maybe able to get Spidey into an Avengers movie in the future which would be freakin' awesome! We can dream, can't we?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Rogues':
I nominate "The Amazing (500) Days of Snouts That Can't Convey Emotions"
Perfect. Robby, make it happen!!!
@Thousand:
Because it shows the director has a very bad mentality to the movie. It shows that the directordoes not know or care about the world and characters which are pretty much iconic. It shows that director is less interested in translating the comics into the big screen and being faithful to the comics and the fans and more interested in squeezing his own "artistic vision" and he doesn't care how he mutilates the world and the characters to do it. It shows he doesn't understand the world and how the characters fit into it, the tone the movie should take, the fundamentals needed to make a good comic book movie. Basically it shows he doesn't give a shit. Many an adaptation has gone bad because of this lack of understanding. Because they don't understand it, they try hard to inject elements into the movie to try and make sense of it. They're ashamed of this "cartoony" show they're working with and try to force plot contrivances to try and make it more "adult-like". And in the end, we get a completely unrecognizable product that is nothing like the original we all love and care about. We get a Super Mario Brothers movie where Mario and Luigi are father and son and have to fight Dennis Hopper in an alternate universe run by dinosaurs or Smurfs in a modern day city. It's this attempt at rationalization that gives shitty adaptations more than anything else. Just stick to the material, take it for what it is and don't take it seriously, you can't take it seriously. You have a guy swinging around New York in rubber tights, the first mistake you do is taking it seriously. You need to accept it for what it is and have fun with it, that's the whole point of the movie. It's why Avengers was so great because it knew what it was, it swam in it and gave an incredible experience because of it. Dark Knight took itself too seriously and it almost back-fired in a way but luckily Batman was always the most grounded of the franchises with the most serious and dark tone so Nolan's direction kinda worked but it could have been a better movie like Batman Begins if it tried a lighter tone.
Now I'm not saying this movie is gonna suck, it might be great. The director might have done a good amount of research or he was competent enough in filming an effective and well-put together movie even if not too faithful. We'll see. I'm merely explaining the reasoning why we're getting a little anxious about these comments we're getting about how he's trying to make a "serious" movie. And I want this movie to succeed, we need a good Spider-Man movie after 3. A positive reception maybe able to get Spidey into an Avengers movie in the future which would be freakin' awesome! We can dream, can't we?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Perfect. Robby, make it happen!!!
I don't get that at all from his quote….I think I will put this into the files with all your other long speech.
It's because he's being a douche about it. X2 and First Class also fuck all over what's in the comic books, but from interviews it's pretty clear Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaughn really loved the original material and created a new universe that kept the core concepts. Similarly, Sam Raimi's Spidey movies are at their core similar to the comic books, but also do their own thing and Raimi was also much more inviting to the silver age camp.
Webb's comments appear like they're looking down on the medium and he's dodging it altogether to make a movie about the Spider-Man HE likes (most likely a hipster douche).
I dunno, it's kinda hard to explain.
It's because he's being a douche about it. X2 and First Class also fuck all over what's in the comic books, but from interviews it's pretty clear Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaughn really loved the original material and created a new universe that kept the core concepts. Similarly, Sam Raimi's Spidey movies are at their core similar to the comic books, but also do their own thing and Raimi was also much more inviting to the silver age camp.
Webb's comments appear like they're looking down on the medium and he's dodging it altogether to make a movie about the Spider-Man HE likes (most likely a hipster douche).
I dunno, it's kinda hard to explain.
i get what you are saying but I still don't feel about the way you do.
I still don't understand why you guys are taking such offencse to that quote?
I'm going to make a One Piece movie, but I think the comics are too silly.
You can do things in comics you shouldn't do in movies, so Luffy isn't going to have rubber powers (too much cgi effort anyway) , or be scrawny. He's going to be a musclebound tough guy and he's going to be in a romantic relationship with Nami, (people don't really have orange hair though, so she's going to be a blonde instead) and Buggy is going to be more like Heath Ledger's Joker.
And pirates are passe. How about Luffy's father is a secret agent for the government and Luffy discovers this secret while going to high school? I want to add my own take to the mythos, you see.
And that outfit he has? Vest, shorts and hat? Forget about it. I'm thinking trenchcoat.
Wow a lot of negativity here, read through a few things.
I'm not really a comics(well american comics) guy although I remember enjoying 1 or 2 comic issues (spiderman, batman and star wars comics) that some relatives gifted me years ago I never really got fully into it and thus I'm not really into the lore. And from the outside (reading wikis after seeing a lot of superhero movies especially after all the avenger leadup movies) Marvel lore seems extremely convuluted so I'm pretty much only enjoying the Movies.
That said having read some of the post about the director I can empathize, since that exact attitude prevents successful movie adaption of games in my opinion.
Makes me remember the whole controversy with the uncharted movies.
I still hope this movie will be good I really liked the atmosphere of the trailers (which of course could be entirely due the manipulative nature of trailers) also Garfield gives off a good vibe for a new peter parker.
Wow a lot of negativity here, read through a few things.
I'm not really a comics(well american comics) guy although I remember enjoying 1 or 2 comic issues (spiderman, batman and star wars comics) that some relatives gifted me years ago I never really got fully into it and thus I'm not really into the lore. And from the outside (reading wikis after seeing a lot of superhero movies especially after all the avenger leadup movies) Marvel lore seems extremely convuluted so I'm pretty much only enjoying the Movies.That said having read some of the post about the director I can empathize, since that exact attitude prevents successful movie adaption of games in my opinion.
Makes me remember the whole controversy with the uncharted movies.I still hope this movie will be good I really liked the atmosphere of the trailers (which of course could be entirely due the manipulative nature of trailers) also Garfield gives off a good vibe for a new peter parker.
Bitching about continuity IS stupid and OF COURSE you can't touch upon 50 years of history in a 2 hour movie, so it's up to the director to pretend he DID read all those thousands of Spidey comics and he DID try to cram everything in and at least pretend he gives a shit. And do the damn snout right.
@RobbyBevard:
I'm going to make a One Piece movie, but I think the comics are too silly.
You can do things in comics you shouldn't do in movies, so Luffy isn't going to have rubber powers (too much cgi effort anyway) , or be scrawny. He's going to be a musclebound tough guy and he's going to be in a romantic relationship with Nami, (people don't really have orange hair though, so she's going to be a blonde instead) and Buggy is going to be more like Heath Ledger's Joker.
And pirates are passe. How about Luffy's father is a secret agent for the government and Luffy discovers this secret while going to high school? I want to add my own take to the mythos, you see.
And that outfit he has? Vest, shorts and hat? Forget about it. I'm thinking trenchcoat.
Made my point in a much shorter and funnier way. Bravo.
Wow a lot of negativity here, read through a few things.
I'm not really a comics(well american comics) guy although I remember enjoying 1 or 2 comic issues (spiderman, batman and star wars comics) that some relatives gifted me years ago I never really got fully into it and thus I'm not really into the lore. And from the outside (reading wikis after seeing a lot of superhero movies especially after all the avenger leadup movies) Marvel lore seems extremely convuluted so I'm pretty much only enjoying the Movies.
It's not about trying to fit in 50 years of story. Not in the least. It would be insane to ask that.
It's about being familiar with that 50 years, and knowing the best material to come from hundreds of artists and writers over decades, what has stood the test of time and what hasn't, which stories have been told over and over and over again because they're great, and picking out the very best and approaching it with love and respect to get the SPIRIT of it all.
You don't have to have loved the material as a kid. But it really, really helps. As Avengers proves.
Batman:TAS and Spectacular Spiderman both did it perfectly. By the end of the first 20 minutes episode you knew the love and understanding was there, and by the end of the fifth episode, (an hour and 40 minutes, the length of a movie) you knew it was going to be the definitive version for years to comes.
@RobbyBevard:
I'm going to make a One Piece movie, but I think the comics are too silly.
You can do things in comics you shouldn't do in movies, so Luffy isn't going to have rubber powers (too much cgi effort anyway) , or be scrawny. He's going to be a musclebound tough guy and he's going to be in a romantic relationship with Nami, (people don't really have orange hair though, so she's going to be a blonde instead) and Buggy is going to be more like Heath Ledger's Joker.
And pirates are passe. How about Luffy's father is a secret agent for the government and Luffy discovers this secret while going to high school? I want to add my own take to the mythos, you see.
And that outfit he has? Vest, shorts and hat? Forget about it. I'm thinking trenchcoat.
I really not getting the impression that he is saying the comics are silly.
I belive (or my impression) he's saying what works in a comic may not traslate to flim and I am fine with that because I belive that. What really matter is what he is taking out of the source matter to make this into a flim and weather it's really valid or it's something so small why borhter if it's not in the flim.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@RobbyBevard:
It's not about trying to fit in 50 years of story. Not in the least. It would be insane to ask that.
It's about being familiar with that 50 years, and knowing the best material to come from hundreds of artists and writers over decades, what has stood the test of time and what hasn't, and picking out the very best and approaching it with love and respect to get the SPIRIT of it all.
You don't have to have loved the material as a kid. But it really, really helps. As Avengers proves.
Batman:TAS and Spectacular Spiderman both did it perfectly. By the end of the first 20 minutes episode you knew the love and understanding was there, and by the end of the fifth episode, (an hour and 40 minutes, the length of a movie) you knew it was going to be the definitive version for years to comes.
If there is one thing we agree on is that Batman and Spectuclar do justice to their brand prefectly and make an interesting show…..just wished they will put season 2 on DVD.
I belive (or my impression) he's saying what works in a comic may not traslate to flim and I am fine with that because I belive that.
Unless its an Alan Moore comic taking complete advantage of the medium in terms of panel layout, diluted time for exposition, and use of the flatness of 2-D art, there's nothing comics can do that movies can't.
What really matter is what he is taking out of the source matter to make this into a flim and weather it's really valid or it's something so small why borhter if it's not in the flim.
That isn't what he's saying. Otherwise he wouldn't be so dismissive of doing the Lizard, saying "you can't get proper emoting out of a non-human face" (When we've already posted dozens of examples of exactly that) and in another breath going "oh yeah, Pixar can do that levels of subtly with their cartoons, and they're good at that, but that's a lot of effort and craftmanship, I'm not going to that level."
When the near unanimous response from every fan website and interview is "That design sucks and looks bad and is going to hurt your movie because its going against what the entire fanbase expects and wants" and his response is "well it's too much work for me to bother doing that, I have a vision different from the entire fanbase. I mean, it would take effort to get the cgi to include a snout and that seems hard." its incredibly dismissive and insulting. And he has that attitude in multiple interviews, its not just a one time out of context remark.
It sends out a warning sign. That not only does he not care about the source material, but that he's not creative enough to grasp it at the level he should to begin with. ESPECIALLY since the lizard is all CGI anyway, so its the EFFECTS people that have to deal with getting emotion out of the character, not him! He can't even be bothered to go "Could you have him with this emotion here"? I'm sure the FX guys can do it.
I wish hog snout guy was still here to give us his expert opinion on all things snout.
I kind of wonder if part of the reason of not putting as much care into the lizard cgi is that they had to push this movie out this year?
I think I've heard stuff about how they would otherwise lose the distribution rights and that was also the reason for abandoning raimi as director since he wasn't sure he could deliver on the deadline? Can someone confirm/deny?
Marc Webb has cast Zooey Deschanel as his leading lady. This guy has no ground to stand on when it comes to things that can't emote. She has one facial expression.
I kind of wonder if part of the reason of not putting as much care into the lizard cgi is that they had to push this movie out this year?
Its still full blown CG. it doesn't matter. It it was completely practical makeup, that'd be one thing. (But even then there's puppets and animatronics) And a good director makes the most of their limitations. Put him in shadow, scary camera angles, from the back. go the JAWS route! Pick and choose your battles.
The villain not looking terrible is an important battle to pick.
And one Raimi failed on with both Green Goblins… but at least there he has test footage of them trying to get the comic look and it looking awkward before resorting to the terrible power ranger's costume)
I think I've heard stuff about how they would otherwise lose the distribution rights and that was also the reason for abandoning raimi as director since he wasn't sure he could deliver on the deadline? Can someone confirm/deny?
Yes, they had to rush this some… because the dicked Raimi around for like 2 years with negotiations and they do lose the license if they don't have a movie every X years.
IIRC it's five years. Spidey 3 came out in 2007, so they had to release it this year.
Ah kk, mmh a little side of me would have actually liked if the rights reverted back to marvel.
And some Avengers expert will probably give me an evil glare on this but I kind of would like to see Spiderman in an Avengers movie.
Snout or no snout, I just want this movie to be good. I haven't really been as hyped for Amazing Spider-Man as I was for the Avengers, but I've been watching and re-watching some of the trailers, and….I just want to not be disappointed.
I guess the best I can do is try not to go into it with high expectations.
I guess the best I can do is try not to go into it with high expectations.
Now I won't be able to sleep tonight.
http://www.oscorpindustries.com/animaldynamicslab/
More to be revealed on may 14.
But…reptiles aren't resilient to cold or heat. They're cold-blooded creatures. They're actually very susceptible to temperature changes. Also the only reptile that can regenerate its limbs are salamanders not all reptiles, the most other reptiles can manage is growing their tails back and that's only for lizards not snakes or crocodiles.
...
This bad science is not an encouraging sign. I know, nitpicking but this kind of half-assed rationalization to make a more inferior product is exactly what I was talking about... And not a good sign when the scienst vllain doesn't know what he's talking about...:/
I didn't watch the video, but Curt Connors regrows his lost arm as the Lizard, so it's probably a reference to that.
I guess that makes the Lizard Man a salamander in this movie lol
@Thousand:
But…reptiles aren't resilient to cold or heat. They're cold-blooded creatures. They're actually very susceptible to temperature changes. Also the only reptile that can regenerate its limbs are salamanders not all reptiles, the most other reptiles can manage is growing their tails back and that's only for lizards not snakes or crocodiles.
...
This bad science is not an encouraging sign. I know, nitpicking but this kind of half-assed rationalization to make a more inferior product is exactly what I was talking about... And not a good sign when the scienst vllain doesn't know what he's talking about...:/
That may be bad science, but that's how it was in the comics.
Connors lost his arm, decides to inject lizard DNA in him, regrows his arm.
Turns in to a big lizard.
I'm not complaining about that, that's the mythos, but the way it was presented really drawed attention to some flat out bad science especially with the temperature resilience.
@Thousand:
I'm not complaining about that, that's the mythos, but the way it was presented really drawed attention to some flat out bad science especially with the temperature resilience.
Ah. Sorry, sorry.
And some Avengers expert will probably give me an evil glare on this but I kind of would like to see Spiderman in an Avengers movie.
I would like to have seen that as well. He'll probably be in the sequel.
Snout or no snout, I just want this movie to be good. I haven't really been as hyped for Amazing Spider-Man as I was for the Avengers, but I've been watching and re-watching some of the trailers, and….I just want to not be disappointed.
I don't think it's going to be an A+ movie but I don't think it'll be disappointing either. It looks pretty action packed and this new guy playing Spider-Man seems to have captured some of his snarky humor. (Guy pulls out a knife. Spider-Man gets on his knees and says "Oh no, oh no, you found my weakness. A small pocket knife.")
I guess the best I can do is try not to go into it with high expectations.
I don't see any American movies with high expectations. :( All the best ideas are coming from the east.
@Thousand:
I'm not complaining about that, that's the mythos, but the way it was presented really drawed attention to some flat out bad science especially with the temperature resilience.
I want to say that given the fact that we have a guy who gets superpowers after being bitten by a radioactive spider, that this right here is a moot point. There are a ton of things this movie will give us to complain about. Having the Spidey fight the Lizard for a example. I mean who gives a f#ck. I'd like to see an R rated Spider-Man movie with Carnage doing what what Carnage does best. Eating bitches and cutting people the f#ck up.
Looks good so far in terms of action and comic book feel though lol at them already ripping off Spiderman 1. But I'm not feeling this Peter Parker. The actor's pretty bad, he sounds like he's reading from the script :/
Funny thing that caught my eye, is it just me or does Spidey get unmasked a lot in this film?
He takes off his mask to calm down a kid? GTFOH.
@Thousand:
Looks good so far in terms of action and comic book feel though lol at them already ripping off Spiderman 1. But I'm not feeling this Peter Parker. The actor's pretty bad, he sounds like he's reading from the script :/
Funny thing that caught my eye, is it just me or does Spidey get unmasked a lot in this film?
I guess the actor want to have more screen time without the mask.
Did you see him in the Social Network he was actually pretty good.
You can't emote properly with a mask like that.
Should've left out the bridge, but seems passable so far.
I'm a bit wary of the whole "hidden past"/"what do you think you REALLY are" angle though.
I'd rather the mask be taken off in ways with good reason(A policeman taking it off, to motivate a kid) than for it to get constantly ripped like in the last trilogy.
Yeah. Not really pumped.
"Spider-man's greatest secrets will be revealed"
…..and I care...why? I don't even know who this spider-man is yet.
Yeah. Not really pumped.
"Spider-man's greatest secrets will be revealed"
…..and I care...why? I don't even know who this spider-man is yet.
Same here. What secrets? We know everything about the guy. If you're like Martin Sheen and the two other people who didn't even know what Spider-Man was then maybe but WTF?
I guess the actor want to have more screen time without the mask.
Did you see him in the Social Network he was actually pretty good.
I dunno, the way he's delivering his lines in the trailer sounds overly awkward and forced.
Yeah. Not really pumped.
"Spider-man's greatest secrets will be revealed"
…..and I care...why? I don't even know who this spider-man is yet.
It's kinda hard to be mystified by a character that has been around for half a century, isn't it?
We've had tons of different interpretations by different people. What's one extra new back-story going to mean anything? The trailer's going at it from the wrong angle.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You can't emote properly with a mask like that.
Bwahahahaha. That cracked me up.
The sad thing is that might actually be the reason lol
To be fair, in the comics, Spidey's mask gets a lot of expressive play that a real mask can't do, a lot of artists have him able to blink, squint or narrow his eyes for dramatic effect, which… on a real mask they just couldn't do.
(And yes, I know that's Deadpool, but I can't find any google pics of Spidey doing it.)
That said, body language, posture, and dialogue can go a tremendous way towards conveying emotion. Heck, we went three films without seeing Darth Vader's face, and he was still more resonant and emotional than the three movies with Anakin.
I am being semi-serious. It's easier to show Spidey's emotions in comics and cartoons, because his mask often contorts like a human face. In movies it's just a stoic mask, so for very emotional scenes it might be better to just remove the mask.
But it wasn't neccesary in THIS preview. In fact it was really stupid.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Welp, beaten to it.
I'd rather the mask be taken off in ways with good reason(A policeman taking it off, to motivate a kid) than for it to get constantly ripped like in the last trilogy.
Seriously! The entire subway train seeing his face in Spiderman 2, and everyone being like, "Pff. We'll help you out. We'll make your life easier." was bullshit. Spider-Man's stories have never been that easy. That's what my issue with the first three Spider-Man movies was: Hardly anyone really had any issue with Spider-Man. Everyone was just like, "OH! There's some mask guy, swinging around, trying to be hero! Well I instantly accept this and see no reason why anyone should feel otherwise!" Spider-Man had obstacles from good people, as well as bad. The police aren't going to just immediately accept Spidey.
I'm not going to immediately hate this movie, cause it doesn't look half bad. I don't care how the Croc looks, cause really, I don't need the Croc to look good in order to pull off the story they're trying to pull off. None of the Spider-Man villains have ever really meant anything to me.
What's frightening to me is: Batman, a series where I ADORE the villains, is having a movie this summer….yet I am far more interested in the Amazing Spiderman than The Dark Knight Rises.
Maybe because in Dark Knight Rises, you know it's gonna be good, just probably the same level of me-ish good Dark Knight was which is still good. Spider-man, it can go either way, it's the wild card this year where it could be Green Lantern bad or Captain America good (I doubt it'll reach Avengers level though).
And god was that train scene in Spiderman 2 stupid. Like half the people in that train wouldn't have whipped out their cell-phones and gotten a picture of Spidey's face to sell to J.J Jameson.
I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that way about the train scene!
Seriously! The entire subway train seeing his face in Spiderman 2, and everyone being like, "Pff. We'll help you out. We'll make your life easier." was bullshit. Spider-Man's stories have never been that easy.
@Thousand:
And god was that train scene in Spiderman 2 stupid. Like half the people in that train wouldn't have whipped out their cell-phones and gotten a picture of Spidey's face to sell to J.J Jameson.
To be fair, every one of those people were about to die and this was the guy who just saved their life. Aside from those feeling a sense of gratitude towards him, I'm sure many more would be too shaken by the experience to even consider it. At most, I guess there could have been one scene showing "that one jerk" who would try to take a picture, but then maybe another guy could stop him or something.
Maybe I just have a horrible outlook on the human race, but I have a hard time believing that THAT many people, on one subway, in one of the biggest and most stressful places in the country, would be quiet of what they saw that day.
I just enjoy the movie ….
Not gonna start analyzing how every single human being can react differently, and never have given that scene any thought (which I am happy about, because I can enjoy more movies that way) They reacted positively. Good enough for me. One person trying to take a photo would've just ruined the movie and slowed down Octo's arrival. Awesome movie.
People are so touchy years after a movie is released ...
Maybe I just have a horrible outlook on the human race, but I have a hard time believing that THAT many people, on one subway, in one of the biggest and most stressful places in the country, would be quiet of what they saw that day.
Well, many disasters have different reactions depending on the people involved, but yeah….even if nobody took any pictures, I have a hard time believing at least not one of those those people sometime down the road would go 'Hey. That guy who taking pictures of Spiderman IS Spiderman.'
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just enjoy the movie ….
That's really the most important thing. I've seen things I've known are crap, but I still enjoy anyway.
MAYBE the people in the subway realised that any villain could just stomp over Manhattan if Spidey was scared away/arrested because of his revealed identity. It's not like the comics where there's 2500 other heroes in NYC.
Just a thought.