. . . Hattori is not a parrot.
Chapter 399 "Jump to the Fall" Discussion
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Questions:
Is it me or is the prison Bon Kurei & co. at the one where Morgan was the general of?
From the looks of it, Crocodile looks…sober or something, I mean look at his expression in 398. -
It's possible that Croc is starting to understand the concept of nakama, then again, probably not.
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Well, it's a sidestory/miniarc. These kinds of things tend to happen.
Of course, even I think it's a bit out there… but it could happen! :o
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Well, one of the totally evil seeming priests from skypeia seems to have redeemed himself, as did the completely nasty Wapol.
So really, considering past events, you might even consider Croc's redemption likely.
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I'd like to think Crocodile's beyond redemption. I dunno, a reformed Croc sorta just doesn't feel right.
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I'm curious as to what "weapons" Franky as referring to… could be something I may have missed, or I may have simply read it wrong...
o_o…-_-...0_0;
Have we been reading the same series? Dare I ask have you not read the entire series but are reading recent chapters anyway?
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How so?
Crocodile has a massive ego justified or not. Losing is a massive blow to that ego. So why wouldn't he want to avenge that loss?
Crocodile following Luffy is not the same as Buggy following Luffy because the latter is played for laughs. Could you see Crocodile hanging out with Ace or searching for buried treasure while hunting Luffy?
Well it is different because his pride was hurt and he want to regain it. I understand the motives behind it but this is not the Crocodile that became my favorite OP character.
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i have a feeling croc is going to escape but only to be defeated by luffy's next opponent. it might end up being Doflamingo or maybe even blackbeard. if crocodile does escape from jail it's probably because oda wants to start setting up the next arc.
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@Battle:
I'd like to think Crocodile's beyond redemption. I dunno, a reformed Croc sorta just doesn't feel right.
That would be as wrong as a reformed Arlong.
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Well it is different because his pride was hurt and he want to regain it. I understand the motives behind it but this is not the Crocodile that became my favorite OP character.
Being a petty, vindicative bastard makes him a different character? Since when?
Yes, there's a great deal of difference in scope when his first plan is to conquer a nation and then he switches to simply wanting revenge, but he's always been vain and mean-spirited, not going after somebody who had beaten him would make him different from the Crocodile I know.
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That would be as wrong as a reformed Arlong.
I dunno…croc seemed to have fair dose of overall nice people working for him. And miraculous redemption is pretty comon in OP to...
I still like the idea of him setting up BW in a theme park or circus business, but I guess that's a little buggy arc.
And yes, reformed arlong would be just wrong. I'm hoping Arlong shows up when they get to Fish Man Island so Nami can kick his ass personally.
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Guys, I think it's quite clear what's going to happen in the end of the arc…..something unexpected ^O^
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Being a petty, vindicative bastard makes him a different character? Since when?
Maybe it was bad wording but he definitely wouldn´t mentally be the same as before. Just compare it to the flashback situations of the Strawhats. Most of them all had a more or less decent childhood going on until the moment came that changed everything. These events were responsible for them to develop in a whole different way as they wouldn´t have happened.
Ok Crocodile´s loss to Luffy is nowhere such a sad development as for instance Bellemere being shot in front of Nami, but for Crocodile his world view broke appart when Luffy defeated him. IMO that surely changes his view of things which doesn´t make him the same as before.
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I think Miss. GoldenWeek is going to use her paint on Crocodile. Most likely one we haven't seen before. This will probably decide what happens next with him.
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I dunno…croc seemed to have fair dose of overall nice people working for him. And miraculous redemption is pretty comon in OP to...
I still like the idea of him setting up BW in a theme park or circus business, but I guess that's a little buggy arc.
And yes, reformed arlong would be just wrong. I'm hoping Arlong shows up when they get to Fish Man Island so Nami can kick his ass personally.
Agreed.
Here's the thing, though. I picture Jimbei being as one of two scenarios:
1. Jimbei is a really, really huge killer-whale fishman, and he's essentially Odachii's version of Jabba the Hutt. Because it was stated that's he's Arlong's equal in strength, I can see him as not being very strong, but being very organized. So I can picture him being this fat, bloated guy who sits around and gets waited on hand and foot, while his minions do his dirty work.
2. He ate the Mizu Mizu no Mi, which makes him unbeatable above water, but in water, he uh… sinks. XD
All things considered, option 1 is more likely.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how that massive gate gets opened. I hope Rocketman knocks it open... though I'm about 80% sure now that Rocketman's engine will be the Mugiwara's new ship. Franky will probably upgrade it a little bit, but it would be perfectly fitting for Kokoro to give it to the Mugiwara in thanks.
How do they open the GoJ, anyway? What I can picture from the size of it is that two large tow-boats are signalled when a button is pressed or a lever is pulled. Each tow-boat has a rope connected to one of the gates. When the button is pressed, the tow-boats move away from the gates, pulling them open.
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@Fire Fist:
I picture Jimbei being as one of two scenarios:
Where's the old ever so popular Jimbei the world's nicest guy scenarion? You know, a person who rules an island crowded by beautiful woman can't be that bad. :happy:
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@Fire Fist:
Because it was stated that Jinbei is Arlong's equal in strength,
um where exactly in the Manga or the SBS was that stated ?
cause im 99.9% certain that there never ever was any statment or indication that arlong was as strong as Jinbei, -
In stephen's edition of chapter 69, on page 133 Yosaku says that Arlong is nearly as strong as Jinbeh.
But, Fire-fist Ace, Arlong was actually VERY strong. He just wasn't much of a fighter.
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oh well that kinda explains it cause i didnt read stephens trans of the first chapter and in the official swedish trans we get over here it doesnt say a word about his strength in comparision to Jinbei,
they only say that Jinbei released a frightfuly dangerous man who once fought alongside him and was so strong that not even don kreig could challenge him in a fair fight into east blue in exhange for being accepted into the Shichibukai.
thought it seems strange that Zimeon(the swedish translator) should miss such an important detail since hes usualy an incredibly dedicated and knowledgeble translator but ah well so is Stephen^^ so if he sez its so i suppose ill have to belive it.
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@Fire Fist:
Because it was stated that's he's Arlong's equal in strength, I can see him as not being very strong, but being very organized.
Two things:
- Jinbei was stated to be as strong as Arlong by a known idiot, so he may well be stronger.
- Arlong took a Bell, Whip, Bullet and Gatling in short order with no ill effects.
Luffy might not have been all that serious when he hit Arlong, but that's still a lot of punishment that Arlong absorbed directly without benefit of Logia powers or Tekkai. Anybody strong as Arlong has to be pretty damn powerful.
How do they open the GoJ, anyway?
Well, the Justice Gate never really opens or closes all of the way from what I understand, but leave it open enough to sail through. It's possible that the World Government used teams of giants to open it originally and have left it that way ever since because of the difficulty involved.
There's no telling how long that it's been that way; for all we know, it might even be a relict from before the World Government that they later appropriated and painted.
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@omae:
Guys, I think it's quite clear what's going to happen in the end of the arc…..something unexpected ^O^
And something you'll actually be satisfied with :biggrin:
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And something you'll actually be satisfied with :biggrin:
I really hope so. I really wouldn´t like Crocodile to become neither a) another Buggy to chase after Luffy nor b) another Wapol who gets rich and famous be producing utter crappy toys nor c) another Gedatsu and run a resort island.
Best thing is to keep him in prison and let him be the big daddy pimp there. Every prison needs such a person.
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Knowing Miss GW, she'll paint them all to be happy and have a huge teaparty with all her nakama…..
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@Fire Fist:
Because it was stated that's he's Arlong's equal in strength, I can see him as not being very strong, but being very organized. So I can picture him being this fat, bloated guy who sits around and gets waited on hand and foot, while his minions do his dirty work.
Now this is very questionable. Arlong would not be anywhere near the Level of a Shichibukai pirate. I doubt a pirate that was a huge threat to the government would be equal to a weakling like Arlong. The Government acknowledges these pirates in the Shichibukai, Lets not forget that Jimbei set Arlong loose in East Blue. Jimbei would at leat be 100times stronger than Arlong.
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I kinda doubt that. Didn't Johnny or Yosaku say that Along was Jinbei's right hand man? Kinda like Bellamy was to Don Flamingo? Just because Jinbei is a Shibukai doesn't mean he's THAT much more stronger than Arlong.
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Best thing is to keep him in prison and let him be the big daddy pimp there. Every prison needs such a person.
The problem there is that Crocodile's obviously not his old self.
He's just sitting there glumly in the image with Mr. 1 and Mr. 4. The way it's set up suggests to me that some of their cellmates mocked either Crocodile or Mr. 1 and Daz made them pay for it. Now, the old Crocodile would have either done it himself or at least laughed about Daz kicking their asses, but this Crocodile seems indifferent to the whole thing.
Old Crocodile would have been running any prison that he wound up in eventually, but New Crocodile is just going to sit around moping. He needs out of there to be himself again.
Knowing Miss GW, she'll paint them all to be happy and have a huge teaparty with all her nakama…..
I kinda like this suggestion actually, if because it's so easy to imagine.
Miss Golden Week's Operation: Meet Baroque Final Vol. "Damn good tea."
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I kinda doubt that. Didn't Johnny or Yosaku say that Along was Jinbei's right hand man? Kinda like Bellamy was to Don Flamingo? Just because Jinbei is a Shibukai doesn't mean he's THAT much more stronger than Arlong.
Yosaku and Johnny also thought Zoro could defeat the World's greatest Swordsman and they knew he was Shichibukai.
Right hand man? I don't think so, Look how weak Bellamy was compared to Doflamingo. Didn't Doflamingo easily kill Bellamy, I think he blew them to pieces or something.
I am sorry someone of Jinbei's Status and Power is way above Arlong. Jinbei let Arlong Loose in the weakest of all Oceans East Blue and he could not even conquer that. Who is to say that their aren't more powerful underlings under Jinbei's command.
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Knowing Miss GW, she'll paint them all to be happy and have a huge teaparty with all her nakama…..
Honestly that sounds like the best idea thus far albeit somewhat dissapointing. "WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM AFTERWARDS?"
It would be like some hellish Twilight Zone episode if it ended with them all covered in non-washable friendship paint.
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The only reason Arlong didn't conquer East Blue is Luffy. It's not like without Luffy, Arlong would have had any trouble. Luffy was strong enough to kill a Shichibukai and that is confirmed, because he did beat one.
Just because Luffy is stronger than Arlong and probably as strong (or stronger) than Jinbei doesn't mean Arlong was weak. Luffy's just a beast. Arlong was able to take Luffy's strongest attacks without injury and it literally took a huge building collapsing on top of him just for the fight to end (I doubt he's dead).
It's very possible that Arlong was almost as strong as Jinbei, just because he's a shichibukai doesn't mean he's one of the higher tier guys, he could be on Crocodiles level, even.
Using the logic of "x is weak because luffy defeated him" is like saying, "Whitebeard defeated x so x is obviously a weak piece of crap."
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I am sorry someone of Jinbei's Status and Power is way above Arlong. Jinbei let Arlong Loose in the weakest of all Oceans East Blue and he could not even conquer that. Who is to say that their aren't more powerful underlings under Jinbei's command.
It's questionable as to how much effort Arlong put into conquering East Blue. Even after eight years, he was apparently still capable of extorting money from the residents of Cocoyashi and Goza, which indicates that he chose a very rich territory to begin carving his empire out of. The fact that the local Naval captain is corrupt is just a bonus as it removes obstacles that he would have faced otherwise.
Arlong was probably waiting until he bled the region dry before expanding his sphere of influence. He might even have been waiting for Nami to add her 100 million to his war chest before moving. Right now, Arlong's holding a territory that still has wealth and his reputation keeps other pirates at bay, but attempting to move beyond that would bring him into contact with the other major powers of East Blue. I doubt Don Krieg would welcome Arlong into his territory with open arms for instance. Morgan either. In fact, Don Krieg leaving for the Grand Line might well have been the best thing for Arlong's plans.
They might not be able to beat him (though Krieg has a reasonable shot by sheer mass alone on top of his own considerable strength), but beating them would be costly. Even the midrange pirates like Django and Alvida as well the multitude of lesser pirates would be a considerable hassle because of sheer numbers alone if he tried to move against them all at once.
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Well, also don't forget shounen rules; every villain gets progressively stronger, and the strength differences are almost exponential. It's not just that Luffy is super-strong, it's that he's getting progressively stronger each opponent. He may not have been strong enough to take a Shichibukai back when he beat Arlong.
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It's questionable as to how much effort Arlong put into conquering East Blue. Even after eight years, he was apparently still capable of extorting money from the residents of Cocoyashi and Goza, which indicates that he chose a very rich territory to begin carving his empire out of. The fact that the local Naval captain is corrupt is just a bonus as it removes obstacles that he would have faced otherwise.
Arlong was probably waiting until he bled the region dry before expanding his sphere of influence. He might even have been waiting for Nami to add her 100 million to his war chest before moving. Right now, Arlong's holding a territory that still has wealth and his reputation keeps other pirates at bay, but attempting to move beyond that would bring him into contact with the other major powers of East Blue. I doubt Don Krieg would welcome Arlong into his territory with open arms for instance. Morgan either. In fact, Don Krieg leaving for the Grand Line might well have been the best thing for Arlong's plans.
They might not be able to beat him (though Krieg has a reasonable shot by sheer mass alone on top of his own considerable strength), but beating them would be costly. Even the midrange pirates like Django and Alvida as well the multitude of lesser pirates would be a considerable hassle because of sheer numbers alone if he tried to move against them all at once.
Well your point is? Arlong still does not compare to Jinbei in terms of Status and Power. Their is a huge Fundamental Difference between them and that is the level of Shichibukai.
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Well your point is?
Well, mainly that your contention that Arlong could not conquer East Blue is dependent on him actually attempting to do that when we really don't know that to be the case.
The fact that his first reaction to Purinpurin was to attempt to buy him off is a good sign that Arlong prefers to take a more lowkey approach than most would-be conquerors. If you don't piss him off, then he's happy leaving things as they are.
Arlong still does not compare to Jinbei in terms of Status and Power. Their is a huge Fundamental Difference between them and that is the level of Shichibukai.
A difference in Status? Obviously.
However, we know next to nothing about Jinbei so there's really no way to judge the gap between their strengths.
It's likely that he's stronger, but we really don't know that for a fact. He may have just been smarter than Arlong or had some other advantage that made him Captain of his crew, which resulted in the World Government offering him a deal.
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The problem there is that Crocodile's obviously not his old self.
He's just sitting there glumly in the image with Mr. 1 and Mr. 4. The way it's set up suggests to me that some of their cellmates mocked either Crocodile or Mr. 1 and Daz made them pay for it. Now, the old Crocodile would have either done it himself or at least laughed about Daz kicking their asses, but this Crocodile seems indifferent to the whole thing.
Old Crocodile would have been running any prison that he wound up in eventually, but New Crocodile is just going to sit around moping. He needs out of there to be himself again.
That is just an assumption. We don´t even know if it was just Daz alone, Daz and Mr. 4 or all the three of them who finished them off. Daz is just sitting on one of them. Crocodile is next to the other. Just compare it to the title page of the most recent chapter. From Miss Doublefingers and Miss Merrychristmas´ position you can´t tell which one did the fighting and which not. Maybe both did, maybe just one. Now what I´m saying.
Plus even if Crocodile didn´t beat any of them up, what tells us that he didn´t order the other two to take them down. I mean if Daz is strong enough to be beat the hell out of the nobodies, why shouldn´t Crocodile? To me it still looks as if Crocodile is running the business so far there.
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Well, also don't forget shounen rules; every villain gets progressively stronger, and the strength differences are almost exponential. It's not just that Luffy is super-strong, it's that he's getting progressively stronger each opponent. He may not have been strong enough to take a Shichibukai back when he beat Arlong.
I don't think Luffy has been getting progressively stronger, though, at least not until gear 2nd. He came up with new techniques, but I don't think he was physically stronger when he fought sand-y-man than when he fought Arlong. Really, there's no evidence that his physical strength has increased since he first left his island. Just that he's gotten to be a better fighter. Luffy's been insanely strong ever since he left the island, and he is even stronger when he is fighting for a nakama (like how he suddenly got strong enough to literally grab Arlong's sword and arlong couldn't move the sword, unless that's just in the anime).
I always figured that's why Luffy suddenly felt the need to get stronger after he fought ao kiji. Before that fight, he believed he was strong enough already to carry himself through the grand line (and arguably, if he's not worried about his nakama, he is, but he wants to be able to protect the weaker members of his crew).
In fact, I wouldn't even say gear second makes him physically stronger, rather he does something with his body to achieve 100% use of his strength, or at least that's how I think he described it.
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That's just discarding what we've seen… there have always been subtle hints to their growth, all of them, in terms of strength, skill.... Zoro even comes out and says it directly.
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I don't think Luffy has been getting progressively stronger, though, at least not until gear 2nd. He came up with new techniques, but I don't think he was physically stronger when he fought sand-y-man than when he fought Arlong. Really, there's no evidence that his physical strength has increased since he first left his island. Just that he's gotten to be a better fighter. Luffy's been insanely strong ever since he left the island, and he is even stronger when he is fighting for a nakama (like how he suddenly got strong enough to literally grab Arlong's sword and arlong couldn't move the sword, unless that's just in the anime).
I disagree here. I think he has gotten a lot stronger but not just by brute strenght. Crocodile brought Luffy two time near to death (three times if you count the poison) and Luffy was coming back. Luffy just came back because he grew above himself. And no matter how much you train, such near death situations are experiences that you will never get through training. Luffy´s power is based on determination and with each fight he surpassed his limits in that. That´s why I think that he has gotten a lot stronger after he defeated Crocodile. Not in terms of pure strenght. But that alone doesn´t determine the total package of fighting skills.
However I think that he has gotten a lot stronger in Skypiea. Mostly because of the environment. As a snowboarder I can assure you that if you go out for a little jogging in a hight between 1200 and 2100 meters above sea level for a week, you will definitely be much fitter when you get back home and do your regular workout then. I´m telling the truth.
And now the last component to that difficult environment. Luffy was carrying around that huge golden ball with him. And he did that above a hight of 10.000 meters. He even climbed the Giant Jack with it in order to get to Enel. And then in the end he was swinging that giant ball around to stop that Raigoh. That is one hell of an workout.
Just remember back at his first confrontation with Wiper. Wiper was fitter because for him the thin air was normal environment. Just imagine how much fitter Wiper would be if he would have the chance to breath the air of the Blue Sea. This whole situation is actually similar to the whole DBZ concept where they are training with high gravity.
For me Luffy definitely has gotten physically stronger in Skypiea.
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But I think he could have done all that at the beginning of the series, had he needed to, and his determination allowed it. It's just a personal opinion. I'm aware that probably 99% if not 100% of the people here will disagree.
(edit, not talking about the VERY beginning when he was a little kid, I mean when he left the island).
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But the sole fact that he couldn´t beat Wiper at first and then got used to the environment actually proves his body adjusted to it meaning he got stronger. I´m just talking about Skypiea here, not about Arabasta.
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If I go to the mountains for a week, I will adjust and be able to run a mile the same speed I could run a mile down in the valley.
The change coming from that is temporary unless I stayed in the mountains and trained for years, then came back to the valley. As I only ever stay in the mountains for a week, when I come back to the valley, I can, temporarily, stay winded for a longer period of time.
But my body readjusts to the oxygen climate of the valley afterward. Unfortunately it's not the same as training in a high gravity situation would be.
I understand your point there, but that's actually more an adjustment of the Lung's oxygen intake and dispersal system than it is an increase in strength. In other words, it changes how oxygen is distributed through the blood stream. When people climb Mount Everest and plan to do it without oxygen supplies, they absolutely have to stop at a certain altitude and remain there for a few weeks, otherwise they will die, stopping at that altitude let's their body adjust the oxygen distribution to their blood, so that they can function with sparser oxygen content in the atmosphere.
I know what you're saying though, but I disagree with that having to do with physical strength.
I 'do' think that Zoro has been getting physically stronger throughout the series, and that this has been demonstrated through training and such. I just don't think Luffy has.
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Well, in my opinion, Luffy had to of gotten stronger since the begining of the series. If he didn't then he would have defeated some of his foes much easier in the past. Or maybe he's just a tactical fighting genius. Every fight he partakes in he is either winning from the start, or gets better as the fight continues. He also figures out ways to defeat his opponents, when it seems impossible to due so. So whether he's getting stronger are is just one smart son of a gun is anyone's guess.
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It's not so much intelligence as it is endurance. He keeps getting up and eventually figures out a way to beat his opponent (Davy Back fight, Crocodile, etc).
While he might not be smart, it's pretty hard to say he's not OBSERVANT.
He immediately noticed that he could grab crocodile when his hand was wet, etc. He figured out sauro by seeing how the cp9 did it, even.
I mean that's some really good observational skill.
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If I go to the mountains for a week, I will adjust and be able to run a mile the same speed I could run a mile down in the valley.
The change coming from that is temporary unless I stayed in the mountains and trained for years, then came back to the valley. As I only ever stay in the mountains for a week, when I come back to the valley, I can, temporarily, stay winded for a longer period of time.
That is true but for a fictional story it actually wouldn´t be far off if the change would be permanentally.
But my body readjusts to the oxygen climate of the valley afterward. Unfortunately it's not the same as training in a high gravity situation would be.
If you think about the golden bell I mentioned before it is. He is carrying that heavy thing around with him in a very uneasy environment. It´s not just the thin air but the combo of heavy lifting in thin air. He never did anything equal before.
I understand your point there, but that's actually more an adjustment of the Lung's oxygen intake and dispersal system than it is an increase in strength. In other words, it changes how oxygen is distributed through the blood stream. When people climb Mount Everest and plan to do it without oxygen supplies, they absolutely have to stop at a certain altitude and remain there for a few weeks, otherwise they will die, stopping at that altitude let's their body adjust the oxygen distribution to their blood, so that they can function with sparser oxygen content in the atmosphere.
That´s the point, they have to adjust. But once they get back to a for them normal altitude they will certainly be fitter. As you say I agree the changes are not permanent but they are there. I know it from myself when I return from a week in the mountains. When I work out my condition is much better and when I pump iron I even got stronger a bit for at some points. But as you say, the change doesn´t get permanent. But as I said, in a fictional story it wouldn´t see too out of place if it is a permanent change. It would actually seem more out of place if the characters get weaker again.
I know what you're saying though, but I disagree with that having to do with physical strength.
Well my personal experience tells me different. Plus it is a matter of fitness. Becoming a stronger fighter does not mean to get more physical power. The improvement of your athletics can make you a better fighter then before even if you don´t learn any new moves. What good is it to know decent moves if you don´t have the fitness to perform them?
I 'do' think that Zoro has been getting physically stronger throughout the series, and that this has been demonstrated through training and such. I just don't think Luffy has.
Well, as I just said I think he did.
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It's not so much intelligence as it is endurance. He keeps getting up and eventually figures out a way to beat his opponent (Davy Back fight, Crocodile, etc).
While he might not be smart, it's pretty hard to say he's not OBSERVANT.
He immediately noticed that he could grab crocodile when his hand was wet, etc. He figured out sauro by seeing how the cp9 did it, even.
I mean that's some really good observational skill.
That could also be true. It might just be me, but Luffy adapts to his enviroment awful well also. Whatever it is, though, Oda made Luffy the way he was meant to be: badass.
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**If say one practices ninpo. they then decide to go to the mountains to seek a faumos grand master. The grand master then trains his new student for a month up in the mountains. When he comes back his body does get used to the weather again. And he is more physiccaly stronger then when he left. When in the ountains he has grown extremley fast. And while some characteristics do go back to narmal after the mountains, he is still stronger, faster and more skilled than before.
So while some of the drastic changes mmight wither away. Some of the changes still do remain. The most imprtant being the new skills he learned, and that now he is able to perform them better in his village then before. this is all in real life.
^^ not exactly the same as luffy going to skypeia but the basic concept is still there.**
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I 'do' think that Zoro has been getting physically stronger throughout the series, and that this has been demonstrated through training and such. I just don't think Luffy has.
Stephen's script of 383 (Zoro talks about Usopp, bolds are mine):
Zoro: Every time we cross a new island,
we grow stronger in new ways without realizing it.
And every island, he escapes death
in the same way we all have.
Nobody in our crew is flaky enough to die from any little thing!!I don't think he is only talking about physical strength but I assume that it includes it. After all, physical strength is the only thing that saves you to die if you have been hurt badly (courage usually saves them too but it would mean nothing without raw strength).
Back on topic, nothing is padding in good narration, if Oda sets up a conversation between two characters that doesn't move the plot forward, it is because the message is important and he really means it, IMHO.
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People tend to not realize they've grown stronger. For the readers, it's gradual (except for the obvious things, like when Zoro learned to cut steel.) For the characters themselves, who may not realize it, they just don't notice it.
Usopp, for example, can probably take on a lot of the earlier villains he wouldn't be able to touch at the beginning.
I think if any of the people the Straw Hats knew before leaving saw them, they'd all be very impressed by their strength.
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I just tend to disagree, Usopp's definitely stronger, but not so much "physically" as he is a "better fighter."
Honestly, I disagree with the notion that you can lift heavier weights after going to the mountains. I don't see how that's physically possible, since the only real change in the mountains is that there is less air, so your body just adapts in such a way that it can sustain itself in that environment.
If your body actually stayed like it was in the high mountains for a long period of time when you were at a lower elevation, it would actually be bad for your health (there is a reason we distribute oxygen the way we do in any given environment, and too much oxygen is actually bad for you, as strange as that sounds). I'm sure that if you work out in the mountains you can get stronger, but not any stronger than you would have gotten working out in the valley. It's just a matter of cardiovascular fitness that is effected. Muscle gain works in a significantly different way and relies on nutrition, muscle degradation and the following reperation (leading to a larger muscle).
I guess if you want to pick and choose how elevation adaptations work, and then after using that scientific fact say "but we'll ignore this other one" that's fine. I choose not to, since both are pretty basic.
One thing the strawhats probably did gain that is permanent, is the ability to fight better while exhausted. Which might be significant in the upcoming fight considering how gear second exhausts Luffy's body.
Honestly, I'm weary of using scientific explanations for any of it, I just don't think Luffy can lift a heavier weight than he could at the beginning of the series. He lifted a golden ball, but earlier in the series he threw a giant sea monster way into the ocean. I think his fighting capacity has improved greatly, though.
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Isn't it the same logic as young Goku's tower climbing and training with Kami?