I do hope that this series is heading to it's conclusion, as much as I've enjoyed this read, I hope they do not draw it out longer then it has to. I critize their choice for not having Azuki in the story almost at all. (When was the last time she was in it for more then a panel? When trap was cancelled?). Unless they are planning some big omg twist for the final arc, like Azuki ending up with another guy for some reason.
Bakuman
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I like drunk Kaya. She's funny. Sweet chapter, and I mean sweet in the sentimental way.
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Drunk Kaya?
goes to read chapter
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haha I like how Takagi promises to make children XD. Do your best Kaya!
In all honesty, I hope that Reversi is chosen for the next anime!
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Bromance Chapter! XD
I liked the chapter overall as well as drunk Kaya.
Now…what I'm about to say is not necessarily what I want to happen, but what I think might happen.
Reversi may or may not get an anime...and it may or may not be the series that makes Mashiro / Miho get married. Notice the conspicuous absence of an Azuki-inspired heroine for her to voice. PCP, Tanto, and Trap all had a prominent female character. The closest thing Reversi will have is a character like Misa Amane...at the moment however, we have not been shown any characters beyond "Light" and "L". There really is no heroine in a story like Death Note or Reversi.
We have the introduction of this other voice actress. What if she somehow gets involved in the relationship through misunderstanding or otherwise. Let's say at the time mashiro and takagi finally get their anime Mashiro and Azuki are not together due to interference of this girl. That or the other girl gets the part. something along those lines. Things may be setting up for something like that because there is no prominent female lead in Reversi for her to voice. For the readers it will be good because we are not let down by Azuki not getting to fill the "perfect role for her."
I just feel like they're setting things up for Reversi to be a success, possibly get an anime, but not result in a Mashiro / Azuki marriage. Maybe little babies for Takagi and Kaya. In all three other Ashirogi Muto series we saw a prominent female lead for Azuki to voice had they ever been animated. The absence of any female character at all in Reversi to the best of our knowledge seems significant. it wouldn't really make sense to suddenly show a female character when it's time for an anime and Azuki to do the voice work.
Just saying...I don't necessarily think Bakuman is that close to ending. We're likely going to see a third bout with Nanamine at some point. I somehow think Homewrecker and Nakai are going to be teamed up after the end of Natural. Then of course, a wedding for Hiramura and Aoki. I don't think we'll see two weddings in close proximity (Mashiro / Miho and Hiramura / Aoki), yet another reason I don't really think the dream ending for Mashiro is right around the corner just yet.
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Unless they are planning some big omg twist for the final arc, like Azuki ending up with another guy for some reason.
At this point that wouldn't surprise me, the story has died down with the anticipation of the marriage, so only a "twist" like this could save it.
Then the hero almost kills himself but DOESN'T because of the power of Nakama, and unlike his uncle he had a partner.
cheesy 80's theme song playsFlashforward 20 years to see how the characters ended up.
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His uncle didn't kill himself and I'm quite sure they won't have Mashiro seriously consider suicide.
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Mashiro's uncle died of overwork.
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Raw scans for 163 are out, but no summary or translation yet. However, looking at the images…
! It looks like Reversi does in fact get an anime. But there's some massive conditions on it that warrant many pages of debate and arguing, possibly "it needs to have X amount of material so it can last this long?" or "whichever holds first place for the next several months" or something . Also it seems like its possible they FINALLY clue Hattori in on Mashiro's bizarre 10 year wedding promise.
! Eiji is not pleased with this news at all and does 20 chapters overnight? 20 versions of the next chapter? -
I suspect Eiji is a robot in disguise.
I also suspect I have had Hiramaru syndrome for the last decade.
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Actual spoiler summary is out now. I'd gotten the gist of it from just the pictures, but…
! So in the editorial department they're deciding which to use. On one side, Eiji and Yuujirou doesn't want Zombie Gun to be animated just yet because they think they don't have enough material. i.e: anime will quickly catch up to manga. Yuujirou thinks they'll need to be serialized for 3 years before thinking of an anime. Eiji nods in agreement, but after hearing Yuujirou say "Well I guess it'll go to Reversi then", Eiji makes a stern face.
! On the other end, Hattori is happy but now has a conflict. He's worried about the manga ending within the year, or worst case scenario, before the start of the anime. Best scenario is in the timespan (or at least within the year) they have an anime, their manga is still serialized. Or in other words, it can be called a condition to get an anime. But with their serialization approaching one year by the time the anime is released, they'll pretty much be heading into the grand finale battle stage.
! Hattori in the end discusses it with Ashirogi Muto since he can't decide what to do. Mashiro and Takagi are, of course, ecstatic as heck. But once calmed down, they're just as dumbstrucked. On one end, Takagi wants to go ahead. He'll do whatever it takes to carry on with the serialization. On the other end, Mashiro doubts Takagi's ability, he doesn't want to drag it out resulting in the quality of the entire series dropping. Hattori thinks their best chance would be letting this chance go by, focus on the manga til the end, and then wait for it to be animated afterwards. Takagi aggresively objects that they definitely cannot let this chance go by. Mashiro deep down knows he's thinking of him and Azuki. And so, spills the beans about him and Azuki's marriage to Hattori.
! Hattori seems to be touched after hearing it, and decides if they want go ahead with the anime, he'll give the go ahead, even if their manga will end shortly. If anything comes up, he'll take responsibility.
! So here's Hattori approaching Aida to let him know they'll go ahead with the anime. And here, us readers are thinking YES ASHIROGI MUTO WILL FINALLY GET AN ANIME…...Yuujirou bursts into the room and lays 20 chapters of manuscript of anime material for Zombie Gun on the desk, saying Eiji says if he's gonna lose his spot to Ashirogi Muto then he'd rather have Zombie Gun take over Crow's place.Oh man. Eiji is a monster.
! Apparently he did 20 manuscripts for filler episodes. Overnight. Monster.
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! And thus Eiji breaks any semblance of realism in the manga. Even if the manuscripts are just rough sketches, that's pretty ridiculous
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@RobbyBevard:
Actual spoiler summary is out now. I'd gotten the gist of it from just the pictures, but…
! So in the editorial department they're deciding which to use. On one side, Eiji and Yuujirou doesn't want Zombie Gun to be animated just yet because they think they don't have enough material. i.e: anime will quickly catch up to manga. Yuujirou thinks they'll need to be serialized for 3 years before thinking of an anime. Eiji nods in agreement, but after hearing Yuujirou say "Well I guess it'll go to Reversi then", Eiji makes a stern face.
! On the other end, Hattori is happy but now has a conflict. He's worried about the manga ending within the year, or worst case scenario, before the start of the anime. Best scenario is in the timespan (or at least within the year) they have an anime, their manga is still serialized. Or in other words, it can be called a condition to get an anime. But with their serialization approaching one year by the time the anime is released, they'll pretty much be heading into the grand finale battle stage.
! Hattori in the end discusses it with Ashirogi Muto since he can't decide what to do. Mashiro and Takagi are, of course, ecstatic as heck. But once calmed down, they're just as dumbstrucked. On one end, Takagi wants to go ahead. He'll do whatever it takes to carry on with the serialization. On the other end, Mashiro doubts Takagi's ability, he doesn't want to drag it out resulting in the quality of the entire series dropping. Hattori thinks their best chance would be letting this chance go by, focus on the manga til the end, and then wait for it to be animated afterwards. Takagi aggresively objects that they definitely cannot let this chance go by. Mashiro deep down knows he's thinking of him and Azuki. And so, spills the beans about him and Azuki's marriage to Hattori.
! Hattori seems to be touched after hearing it, and decides if they want go ahead with the anime, he'll give the go ahead, even if their manga will end shortly. If anything comes up, he'll take responsibility.
! So here's Hattori approaching Aida to let him know they'll go ahead with the anime. And here, us readers are thinking YES ASHIROGI MUTO WILL FINALLY GET AN ANIME…...Yuujirou bursts into the room and lays 20 chapters of manuscript of anime material for Zombie Gun on the desk, saying Eiji says if he's gonna lose his spot to Ashirogi Muto then he'd rather have Zombie Gun take over Crow's place.Oh man. Eiji is a monster.
! Apparently he did 20 manuscripts for filler episodes. Overnight. Monster.
! That's…just stupid.
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! That's…really dickish on Eiji's part. What a cockblocker (literally and metaphorically!).
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! And thus Eiji breaks any semblance of realism in the manga. Even if the manuscripts are just rough sketches, that's pretty ridiculous
! If you're drawing stick figures, you can go pretty quick. It was established at the start of the series that Eiji can do a full 20 page name off the top of his head in about half an hour. And if they're all ideas he already had, or scenes between stories already done, well there you go, him doing that much in an 8-16 hour all afternoon/ all nighter stretch isn't farfetched, especially if he's making a point of "If the anime is worried about catching up, I can provide filler material without interrupting my regular schedule, see?" It's not polished or full quality, but its something for the animation team to go off of, and just proving a point. Certainly better than leaving them up to scratch like most animes?
! It's dickish of him, but it was the fact that it was Reversi getting it that inspired him to make the move. He was fine with waiting when it was… anything else that was going to be there. He might not have even reacted that way if PCP made it, for instance. -
@RobbyBevard:
! If you're drawing stick figures, you can go pretty quick. It was established at the start of the series that Eiji can do a full 20 page name off the top of his head in about half an hour. And if they're all ideas he already had, or scenes between stories already done, well there you go, him doing that much in an 8-16 hour all afternoon/ all nighter stretch isn't farfetched, especially if he's making a point of "If the anime is worried about catching up, I can provide filler material without interrupting my regular schedule, see?" It's not polished or full quality, but its something for the animation team to go off of, and just proving a point. Certainly better than leaving them up to scratch like most animes?
! It's dickish of him, but it was the fact that it was Reversi getting it that inspired him to make the move. He was fine with waiting when it was… anything else that was going to be there. He might not have even reacted that way if PCP made it, for instance.! Yeah, but that was before he too that sort of thing seriously. Didn't they imply later on that he was starting to work a bit more slowly to imporve quality? I suppose he might have cared a bit less since it was just filler episodes though. Also, since an episode of an anime takes more time than a manga, it'd also depend on whether Eiji was writing to compensate, or if he's fine with badly paced filler. I realize that it isn't impossible given whats been established, but it still seems unlikely. And Eiji doing that at the beginning of the series was rediculous anyways
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! I'm more concerned about Hattori apparently having absolutely no qualms with Mashiro's marriage promise. Yeah, apparently this is acceptable in the Bakuman universe.
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
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! Yeah, but that was before he too that sort of thing seriously. Didn't they imply later on that he was starting to work a bit more slowly to imporve quality? I suppose he might have cared a bit less since it was just filler episodes though. Also, since an episode of an anime takes more time than a manga, it'd also depend on whether Eiji was writing to compensate, or if he's fine with badly paced filler. I realize that it isn't impossible given whats been established, but it still seems unlikely. And Eiji doing that at the beginning of the series was rediculous anyways
! Well, we're never going to see the quality of those notes, so we'll never know exactly what went into them. If they're just a guide though, counting on a team to clean up and pace, they don't have to be the best quality.
! I'm more concerned about Hattori apparently having absolutely no qualms with Mashiro's marriage promise. Yeah, apparently this is acceptable in the Bakuman universe.
Well, it's a little late to argue against it and call him an idiot NOW, nine years later, isn't it?
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@RobbyBevard:
Well, it's a little late to argue against it and call him an idiot NOW, nine years later, isn't it?
! True, but I guess my biggest is that the spoilers seem to indicated he's touched by it. I mean, no adverse reaction whatsoever? Not even an inner monologue? Not even Hattori being bothered by them keeping a secret from him? Not even a realization of "Hey, all those times they seemed so unreasonably adamant about getting a manga/anime…...........it all makes sense now!"
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His facial expressions do seem to say that, even if the text doesn't.
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The chapter's properly out, Eiji, what a dick. Probably just trying to keep his rivals continuing to make quality manga…
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or just trying to keep the manga going. o;
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"We've never even dated, we've never even met each others."
Sums up my entire dislike of that plot point almost completely.
How has no one told Mashiro that this is completely stupid? We're getting to Bleach level logic here..
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I don't think its dickish at all, if anything, it's a smart move on Eiji's part if he wants to beat Reversi. It's been established already in the series that the manga that become animated get a popularity boost. The moment Eiji heard that Reversi could be getting an anime, he realized that either he could sit there and let his opponents get a significant advantage over him, or he could try to take it for himself.
On another note, it's bothering me that Takagi and Mashiro seriously can't think up anything else for Reversi. From what we learned of the Reversi story so far, both protagonists have received powers from demons. Even if the conflict between Schwarz and Weiss finishes, couldn't they just make the demons into antagonists? They said that the demons goal in this story was to deceive the both of them so that they could secretly control them in the background in the hopes of taking over the world. That's not a bad direction to go in. Better yet, have the demons take back their powers and have Weiss have to figure out a way to defeat them as a normal human. This absolute writers block thing seems a little silly to me, there's always some way to improve a story. Saying the story is perfect already is a little prideful.
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I don't we really know what Reversi is about. As far as we know, there isn't a female character, I'm sure there's supposed to be more to the story that we don't know about.
I think you have to accept the love thing about Bakuman. It's been like that for a while.
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Pretty good chapter with a good amount of plot progression.
! I still it's a little weird that Hattori reacted the way he did to Mashiro's confession, but I also think his confession came a little abruptly. I mean, weren't there at least two previous instances where they went at lengths to hide the truth even when they under pressure to tell why they wanted a manga/anime so much?
! But in any case, with that confession, it really does seem all the more apparent that we're reaching the end of Bakuman and this battle for an anime may very well be their final battle. -
Eiji with the anime-block. I thought it was gonna be the other names/chapters/one shots of different stories he never seriously wanted to give in. To think he just up and wrote and drew 20 different names because of competition.
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On another note, it's bothering me that Takagi and Mashiro seriously can't think up anything else for Reversi. From what we learned of the Reversi story so far, both protagonists have received powers from demons. Even if the conflict between Schwarz and Weiss finishes, couldn't they just make the demons into antagonists? They said that the demons goal in this story was to deceive the both of them so that they could secretly control them in the background in the hopes of taking over the world. That's not a bad direction to go in. Better yet, have the demons take back their powers and have Weiss have to figure out a way to defeat them as a normal human. This absolute writers block thing seems a little silly to me, there's always some way to improve a story. Saying the story is perfect already is a little prideful.
They're trying to make a masterpiece. Not knowing the details of the story, I don't see anything wrong with the explanation of them having a clear ending in sight. Would FMA or Monster be better with more added chapters at the end just to keep selling? No, they wouldn't. (especially FMA) They're not making a typical Shonen.
Plus, there's been nothing said about writer's block. Takagi says that he can write more to add to the series, Mashiro just doesn't want him to because it would basically be filler. Some stories should end and I think Bakuman is making Reversi to be one of those.
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Death Note would have been better if stopped at the halfway mark, for instance. The creators were able to make a second half of the story that kept the basic drama and mind games and art quality, but it wasn't nearly as good without the same main character in it… and sheerly based on that alone.
Some stories have logical stopping points... and should stop there. Just because you CAN make it go longer, doesn't mean you should.
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They're trying to make a masterpiece. Not knowing the details of the story, I don't see anything wrong with the explanation of them having a clear ending in sight. Would FMA or Monster be better with more added chapters at the end just to keep selling? No, they wouldn't. (especially FMA) They're not making a typical Shonen.
Plus, there's been nothing said about writer's block. Takagi says that he can write more to add to the series, Mashiro just doesn't want him to because it would basically be filler. Some stories should end and I think Bakuman is making Reversi to be one of those.
what are you talking about? do you know the FMA writer or know when she come up where she want to end her story? or what plot did she originally come up when when she first write FMA and what plot and character she only come up as she goes along.. she write a long running series. thats mean there's some plot that she only put into the story as she goes..
and what stopping Takagi and Mashiro to expand their story even if they are already know its ending. Takagi and Mashiro look really stupid in this couple of chapters, they are all behave like a newbie mangakas.
and what is this "They're not making a typical Shonen" bullshit?
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what are you talking about? do you know the FMA writer or know when she come up where she want to end her story? or what plot did she originally come up when when she first write FMA and what plot and character she only come up as she goes along.. she write a long running series. thats mean there's some plot that she only put into the story as she goes..
Have you read FMA? It's very much planned out. There's a very fluid story and I don't believe it was dragged out at all. All the major characters have closure, especially Ed, Al, Hohenheim, and Father. There may have been a few things added along the way, but that's more than acceptable. It's called World Building. When you create a fictional world, you have to spend some time fleshing it out. But all of it related to the main plot; the only thing that really seemed like filler was when they took Winry to meet that old engineer who lived by himself north of Rush Valley. Everything else was related to the plot in some way.
and what stopping Takagi and Mashiro to expand their story even if they are already know its ending. Takagi and Mashiro look really stupid in this couple of chapters, they are all behave like a newbie mangakas.
and what is this "They're not making a typical Shonen" bullshit?
The plot of Reversi is not a mainstream plot. It's about two demon brothers competing with each other. It's essentially some kind of Hybrid between Death Note and the plot of Ral Grad - Blue Dragon.
I called it wrong, so long ago. I guess this needs to be changed.
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They're trying to make a masterpiece. Not knowing the details of the story, I don't see anything wrong with the explanation of them having a clear ending in sight. Would FMA or Monster be better with more added chapters at the end just to keep selling? No, they wouldn't. (especially FMA) They're not making a typical Shonen.
Plus, there's been nothing said about writer's block. Takagi says that he can write more to add to the series, Mashiro just doesn't want him to because it would basically be filler. Some stories should end and I think Bakuman is making Reversi to be one of those.
Was I the only who thought the ending arc to Monster was….. anticlimactic?
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@Fire Fist:
Have you read FMA? It's very much planned out. There's a very fluid story and I don't believe it was dragged out at all. All the major characters have closure, especially Ed, Al, Hohenheim, and Father.
and where in my post did I said that FMA was not planned out? Dragged out? or nobody in that manga have ending to their story?
There may have been a few things added along the way, but that's more than acceptable. It's called World Building. When you create a fictional world, you have to spend some time fleshing it out. But all of it related to the main plot; the only thing that really seemed like filler was when they took Winry to meet that old engineer who lived by himself north of Rush Valley. Everything else was related to the plot in some way.
and your point is?
and wow.. i can't believe you called yourself a talented writer.. but w/e.. I'll play along.
because of this "world Building" technique a writer can expand/enrich their story.. thats why I said Takagi and Mashiro can add something to the story without affecting its ending.. I never said they can continue their story AFTER its finish and fucked it up.. and all of this "addition" if the author doing it right, it can be something perfect to the story and doesn't feel weird or dues ex machina or plothole or w/e.. i hope you can understand this simple concept..The plot of Reversi is not a mainstream plot. It's about two demon brothers competing with each other. It's essentially some kind of Hybrid between Death Note and the plot of Ral Grad - Blue Dragon.
people really need to learn to not throwing word shounen or seinen or w/e around like they really understand its meaning. takagi and mashiro, they write a story. it doesn't matter they to who they write it as long its good story and appropriate to the targeted readers. being shonen doesn't mean it must suck. and also they write and add something new to the story that was not planned from the beginning. thats why i asked that question.. for example look back at Bakuman chapters when they wrote Reversi or even other series they wrote..
a good story is a good story. doesn't matter it is shonen, seinen or whatever.. in fact like shonen, there are not many really good seinen..
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Was I the only who thought the ending arc to Monster was….. anticlimactic?
No, I think it sucked too. As do the endings of all Urasawa manga. Very strong beginnings, terrible endings..
@Fire Fist:
Have you read FMA? It's very much planned out. There's a very fluid story and I don't believe it was dragged out at all. All the major characters have closure, especially Ed, Al, Hohenheim, and Father. There may have been a few things added along the way, but that's more than acceptable. It's called World Building. When you create a fictional world, you have to spend some time fleshing it out. But all of it related to the main plot; the only thing that really seemed like filler was when they took Winry to meet that old engineer who lived by himself north of Rush Valley. Everything else was related to the plot in some way.
I dunno, I think FMA really started losing its edge by the third act. Plot twists were dull and predictable, character development was overly melodramatic and schmaltzy, characters were taken out in anti-climactic ways which didn't suit their characters at all plus the fact that the world was NEVER in any danger because of Hohenheim's Umbra (which really diffused the tension) and the fact that Ed was able to save Al after ten seconds of rushed thinking (opposed to something he was planning to do all along as a last resort which I would have been fine with) were stupid as hell.
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and your point is?
and wow.. i can't believe you called yourself a talented writer.. but w/e.. I'll play along.
because of this "world Building" technique a writer can expand/enrich their story.. thats why I said Takagi and Mashiro can add something to the story without affecting its ending.. I never said they can continue their story AFTER its finish and fucked it up.. and all of this "addition" if the author doing it right, it can be something perfect to the story and doesn't feel weird or dues ex machina or plothole or w/e.. i hope you can understand this simple concept..Again. Death Note is the obvious example here, since its the obvious comparison piece. Even though they were able to keep the story going past the halfway mark, that doesn't mean it should have. Once L left the series, all the buildup and tension dropped out of it, despite the fill in characters to replace him. The talent behind the story remained high and consistent… but despite their best efforts, the story sucked after that point.
When a story revolves around two characters' conflict, and only two characters, it is INCREDIBLY hard to make that story keep going once one of them is gone... or to introduce a third party late in the game. It throws off the balance of the story. Same goes for building up to a climax in these sorts of things, you can only build up for so long without payoff. (this is why romantic comedy series start to suck after about 10 volumes... you can only sustain "will they/won't they" dynamics for 2 or 3 years before it starts getting tiresome.)
Sure, they could introduce a random 7 minions of filler subplot, but would that really add anything? Or would it just turn their story into Inu Yasha?
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Pretty good chapter with a significant amount of development. Looks like the battle has shifted to who will get the anime. Mashirogi will probably get it because they need the giant advantage just to match Eiji's popularity in volume sells. If they are the staple of the magazine then they need that anime. Eiji will just have to be defeated in this battle. The guy is a monster, he'll churn something out.
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@Thousand:
I dunno, I think FMA really started losing its edge by the third act. Plot twists were dull and predictable, character development was overly melodramatic and schmaltzy, characters were taken out in anti-climactic ways which didn't suit their characters at all plus the fact that the world was NEVER in any danger because of Hohenheim's Umbra (which really diffused the tension) and the fact that Ed was able to save Al after ten seconds of rushed thinking (opposed to something he was planning to do all along as a last resort which I would have been fine with) were stupid as hell.
I agree, the "Everyone Dying" and then being simultaneously revived next chapter was a huge disappointment, but at least it was foreshadowed in advance, so it wasn't a swallows hard Deus Ex Machina (I hate using that term). It was certainly anti-climatic and rushed, though. As for Ed and Al, however, I'd rather have seen the two brothers go on to live happily and didn't really care about their rushed solution; I was just tired of them being shit on by life and everyone else in general.
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@RobbyBevard:
Again. Death Note is the obvious example here, since its the obvious comparison piece. Even though they were able to keep the story going past the halfway mark, that doesn't mean it should have. Once L left the series, all the buildup and tension dropped out of it, despite the fill in characters to replace him. The talent behind the story remained high and consistent… but despite their best efforts, the story sucked after that point.
When a story revolves around two characters' conflict, and only two characters, it is INCREDIBLY hard to make that story keep going once one of them is gone... or to introduce a third party late in the game. It throws off the balance of the story. Same goes for building up to a climax in these sorts of things, you can only build up for so long without payoff. (this is why romantic comedy series start to suck after about 10 volumes... you can only sustain "will they/won't they" dynamics for 2 or 3 years before it starts getting tiresome.)
Sure, they could introduce a random 7 minions of filler subplot, but would that really add anything? Or would it just turn their story into Inu Yasha?
yes.. agree with that. that is why i said they can add something along the way up to their targeted ending.. i never said they can add new plot or storyline after its finish. yes, new plot, new characters is one way of expanding the story or make it longer but there are more ways to do that too.. i feel weird to said this to you since you are a writer and i am just nobody.
! for example like Oda(easiest example).. he already planned One Piece ending and in fact he already planned One Piece story and he thinks he can write everything in 5 years.. but the truth is, he can't. one of the reason he add something to the story. to make it bigger or deeper or better and etc.
same like when he told that during the Jump Festa couple of years ago that one of "main characters friend will die next year" but it take more than two years for that to happen. why? one of the reason is he add something. but off course we can just said that he suck at planning and timing.
! and don't forget that Takagi and Mashiro that they are all write their story in weekly shonen Jump where they write and publish their work weekly and also Jump is the place where everyone doing everything they can to stay on top including change their story to suit readers taste(poll). yes they already plan the story but there is no way they already plan every little thing, every dialog every pages every characters every scenes every part of Reversi before they even serialized chapter 1 in Jump.
! is Reversi already at final part of its story or not? if it is then I apologize for my mistake but if its not then my point is still stand. Takagi and Mashiro can do many thing to make their story longer like add more back story to the already existing characters like for example for the two devil/demon and the truth/story of what drive them into doing what they are doing now, or why only 2 demon exist in Reversi or why only two only active in the story, demon world and etc.. but as long as it stay true to the main plot and leading to their dream ending.
! from what i understand reversi is not only about battle between 2 main characters. their battle will determine the faith of the world(human). if Kubo is the one that write it, yes it is only a battle between 2 characters and everything else doesn't matter. but it is not. Deathnote too was a story about a battle between 2 main characters but still in early of it story there were some interesting battle with some other characters beside just Kira and L. but most of them was wrap up too quickly by Oba. and Kira vs L was 6-7 volume (about a year and a half). and Reversi is only 2 or 3 volume right now if i am not mistaken. and L was really famous and had a very big impact to the series. his death really made an impact to the story. amd Misa was introduced in volume 3.
! and here takagi and mashiro want to write a masterpiece. even if its a battle between 2 characters, without a proper "world building" i don't think their series will be that good. it take more than just a mind battle to make an interesting story. Inuyasha, meitantei Conan, oh My Goddess and etc sucks, and their author doesn't seem to try to write a great stories and trying to make their manga run as long as possible. and really is a very good example how to not write a long running series.Takagi can add several whats look like a random sublot into Reversi but actually very well plan and tie them together. its not easy. i never said it was easy to write a masterpiece but that is their dream. limiting themselves and only focusing on bad example doesn't really help them to write such masterpiece.
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Yes, you CAN expand a story to widen its scope or the amount of material, by adding characters and subplots, but that doesn't always mean you SHOULD.
One Piece is an adventure and battle story. Its more about the journey than the destination. Reversi is a thriller, all about the final conflict.
They've been pretty explicit about the fact that, from the very start, Reversi was only going to be one arc, 50-100 chapters. Two antagonists from the get go, (And they seem convinced that they can't change either of them) and the story is over when one of them is beaten. When Takagi started trying to pad it out a few chapters in Mashiro called him on it and said it was padding. If that is the main and only focus of the series, then it should remain so. They are now a year into it, 50 chapters. So yes, they're in the final arc… they were from the start, and they've been debating how to stretch it, and again deciding that for this story, thats the wrong approach..
You can only maintain a given plotline, in any series, in any medium, for 2 or 3 years before you start tiring out your audience. If you don't resolve plot threads or deal with in-play conflicts, the audience interest starts to wane.
And it turns into Inu Yasha, which would have been a great 10 volume series, but was a horrendous 50 volume one. Wheel of Time probably should have been 7 or 8 novels, at 15 its far too long... the author didn't even live to finish it. Harry Potte reached its natural long built promised showdown conclusion at volume 7... but its super popular, should there now be an 8th book? LOST was popular and incredibly complex and full of characters and mysteries and stuff made up as it went, should it have run for another 4 seasons? Should X-Files really have run for 11 years?
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@RobbyBevard:
Yes, you CAN expand a story to widen its scope or the amount of material, by adding characters and subplots, but that doesn't always mean you SHOULD.
One Piece is an adventure and battle story. Its more about the journey than the destination. Reversi is a thriller, all about the final conflict.
They've been pretty explicit about the fact that, from the very start, Reversi was only going to be one arc, 50-100 chapters. Two antagonists from the get go, (And they seem convinced that they can't change either of them) and the story is over when one of them is beaten. When Takagi started trying to pad it out a few chapters in Mashiro called him on it and said it was padding. If that is the main and only focus of the series, then it should remain so. They are now a year into it, 50 chapters. So yes, they're in the final arc… they were from the start, and they've been debating how to stretch it, and again deciding that for this story, thats the wrong approach..
You can only maintain a given plotline, in any series, in any medium, for 2 or 3 years before you start tiring out your audience. If you don't resolve plot threads or deal with in-play conflicts, the audience interest starts to wane.
And it turns into Inu Yasha, which would have been a great 10 volume series, but was a horrendous 50 volume one. Wheel of Time probably should have been 7 or 8 novels, at 15 its far too long... the author didn't even live to finish it. Harry Potte reached its natural long built promised showdown conclusion at volume 7... but its super popular, should there now be an 8th book? LOST was popular and incredibly complex and full of characters and mysteries and stuff made up as it went, should it have run for another 4 seasons? Should X-Files really have run for 11 years?
yes you right.. I agree with you. its my fault for not completely explain what I thought about. in my mind right now Reversi is only around 30+ chapter. its still young. a battle between two rival is not a rare theme at all. there is something they can do about it. and even if its like you said Reversi is already at its final pace, how come nobody at Jump realized that? i mean if they do, why they are still pushing it to be an anime? and if its really a well written, readers can know that that manga is already at it final pace. long running or not is not supposed to be an issue here. but its not.. so here we are.
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Because shonen manga end at random spots all the time. You can't tell how close a series is to ending, usually you can just guess at an arc coming to close. Shaman King end in the middle of its final arc, before it was supposed to. Dragonball had 4 or five definitive stopping points, but ultimately it ended all of a sudden without any real warning. Naruto should have ended a year ago but its still dragging its corpse along for a little longer. YuYuHakusho should have run for another two or three years, but Togashi ended it super abruptly. Hunter X Hunter goes on random year long hiatuses. Negima is entering its final arc, but ifs its end is 8 chapters away or 200, is impossible to tell.
Heck, Bakuman itself might end before March, it sure feels like its at an end… but there might still be 2 or 3 more years left to it beyond what we're seeing right now.
Without actually asking the creators, you can't know how close a series is to being done... what plans they have for after the current arc... and without checking the ranking you can't gauge if it might be cancelled any day.
Just pretend they're writing Death Note and they're at the point where L dies. Death Note was 108 chapters, and the last 60 of them weren't as good.
Does that make it any easier to process?
(And Death Note got its anime after the manga was done. Its a question of synergy thats being asked right now.)
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True, stories should not last too long. Some lend themselves to length…like One Piece. Like right now, Chuck is such an awesome show, but this week it's finally time to say goodbye. As much as I will miss the show, I think it is actually at it's natural resolution point. I wish season 5 had 22 episodes instead of 13 to give it a little bit more time to develop the final villain, Quinn.
I still don't think Reversi is going to be the last series we see from Ashirogi. Their ultimate goal is still to write something huge....something like Dragon Ball, One Piece, Harry Potter, Star Wars....an iconic masterpiece with broad appeal (some people might argue over whether or not any of the given series are in-fact masterpieces, but I'm just giving examples).
XD though I suppose Ashirogi writing a fictional series with the same appeal and influence of Star Wars is a bit of a stretch.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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If the manga's really nearing it's end, then I guess that means no more development for the side characters.
It's too bad. I liked them.
And after taking a quick peek at the wiki, dear god Hattori looks weird in the anime.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
True, stories should not last too long. Some lend themselves to length…like One Piece. Like right now, Chuck is such an awesome show, but this week it's finally time to say goodbye. As much as I will miss the show, I think it is actually at it's natural resolution point. I wish season 5 had 22 episodes instead of 13 to give it a little bit more time to develop the final villain, Quinn.
I still don't think Reversi is going to be the last series we see from Ashirogi. Their ultimate goal is still to write something huge....something like Dragon Ball, One Piece, Harry Potter, Star Wars....an iconic masterpiece with broad appeal (some people might argue over whether or not any of the given series are in-fact masterpieces, but I'm just giving examples).
XD though I suppose Ashirogi writing a fictional series with the same appeal and influence of Star Wars is a bit of a stretch.
I've interpreted Reversi as being their masterpiece at the moment. They're not going to make something light hearted and/or light on plot like One Piece and Dragonball. (respectively) Their style lends itself more to something like a Death Note or Reversi, yet they'll always have Eiji (and Fukuda) as a rival, unless he dies or something. I think they will write more, but I don't know what that will look like. And they still have PCP.
I guess they could write something longer though, it's interesting to see if they will come up something that has their style but the scope and appeal of Dragonball.
@Hisoga
I had a lot of stuff I wanted to say in response to you, but I was on my computer and the reply button doesn't work, plus the typing process is just extremely long and annoying."and what stopping Takagi and Mashiro to expand their story even if they are already know its ending. Takagi and Mashiro look really stupid in this couple of chapters, they are all behave like a newbie mangakas."
We as an audience are being lead to believe that they can make a beautiful story by the summer it seems. This story is primarily about the battle between 2 demons. They don't feel that they need to add anything, but you feel they do? Your only reasoning is that you think it needs to be somehow elongated. You point out in other posts that it could be about world building, but you say this without knowing how much they've done already or are planning to do. All we know is that they feel that their story can be completed and be a masterpiece in 100 or so chapters. What the hell leads you to tell me off in your post?
You're either assuming that:
1. Reversi will benefit from more chapters. (though I can't imagine how many you'd want)
2. Reversi will benefit from more plot
3."and what is this "They're not making a typical Shonen" bullshit?"
They are certain archetypes that shonen follow. I may have been better off using the word battle manga, but you knew what I was talking about. The point is, in the manga, their style is clearly shown to be different then most. That is what sets them a part. They're not Bleach, Naruto, or One Piece, and Reversi doesn't need 600 chapters to tell a great story. Not that there is anything wrong with that. (One Piece) That is what my Bullshit means.
"being shonen doesn't mean it must suck."
No one implied this, the implication is that they are writing something outside of the norm.
"and all of this "addition" if the author doing it right, it can be something perfect to the story and doesn't feel weird or dues ex machina or plothole or w/e"
It can, but it's unneeded and could be damaging instead. It's not even about being safe, it's about making the best work possible. The only reason they would be adding more chapters is to have a safer and more responsible chance at getting an anime. That's not a good reason. If Takagi does have this vision of what the manga will look like, and Mashiro supports it, I can't see a reason to add more.
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@Hisoga
I had a lot of stuff I wanted to say in response to you, but I was on my computer and the reply button doesn't work, plus the typing process is just extremely long and annoying.We as an audience are being lead to believe that they can make a beautiful story by the summer it seems. This story is primarily about the battle between 2 demons. They don't feel that they need to add anything, but you feel they do? Your only reasoning is that you think it needs to be somehow elongated. You point out in other posts that it could be about world building, but you say this without knowing how much they've done already or are planning to do. All we know is that they feel that their story can be completed and be a masterpiece in 100 or so chapters. What the hell leads you to tell me off in your post?
You're either assuming that:
1. Reversi will benefit from more chapters. (though I can't imagine how many you'd want)
2. Reversi will benefit from more plot
3.and your point is?
They are certain archetypes that shonen follow. I may have been better off using the word battle manga, but you knew what I was talking about. The point is, in the manga, their style is clearly shown to be different then most. That is what sets them a part. They're not Bleach, Naruto, or One Piece, and Reversi doesn't need 600 chapters to tell a great story. Not that there is anything wrong with that. (One Piece) That is what my Bullshit means.
No one implied this, the implication is that they are writing something outside of the norm.
that is bullshit.
It can, but it's unneeded and could be damaging instead. It's not even about being safe, it's about making the best work possible. The only reason they would be adding more chapters is to have a safer and more responsible chance at getting an anime. That's not a good reason. If Takagi does have this vision of what the manga will look like, and Mashiro supports it, I can't see a reason to add more.
What are you trying to say exactly? Man, I already got what I need from Robby. so I will not talk about this anymore. but seriously you talk nonsense..
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and your point is?
that is bullshit.
What are you trying to say exactly? Man, I already got what I need from Robby. so I will not talk about this anymore. but seriously you talk nonsense..
I really have no idea what you're trying to argue
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Passive aggressive much, Hisoga?
Watch it with the insults, especially when other posters are actually giving you long, insightful, CORRECT observations about the series to answer your questions.
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Has anyone one got the dvd of bakuman and what your thought on the english dub?
Personally I like all the voice so far in the first issue(first 7 episodes).
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@RobbyBevard:
Passive aggressive much, Hisoga?
Watch it with the insults, especially when other posters are actually giving you long, insightful, CORRECT observations about the series to answer your questions.
sorry about that sir.. actually I already give an answer about that in my post to Firefistace. and what Andre write is a common knowledge for who that read Bakuman. nothing to do with my question "what is this typical shonen bullshit" anyway. what he say is true, i didn't agree or deny that but its not what i am trying to discuss.
and people can give whatever reason like Andre did but what Takagi and Mashiro do and behave in this couple of chapter is weird.. they don't behave like a pro that have experiences. they behave like a cardboard for plot sake. Oba and Obata did very poor job writing in that regard. its almost like OOC. thats why i said they are stupid and act like a newbie.
and I truly sorry for my behavior Robby and Andre. i truly am
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I don't remember being this annoyed by Eiji in a long time. First he refuses to serialise Zombie Gun and move on with his career because he lost some popularity competition by two whole points, now he's trying to torpedo someone else's anime so he can keep basking in that spotlight. I hope they send those names back to him, he needs to learn to act like an adult.
Seriously, this made me get over "We haven't dated, we haven't even met with each other" right away.
