I wonder whether SH pirates will only go through Grand Line and new world once?
Maybe Shirley prediction will occur in their second travel?? Cause I haven't seen the picture shown in Shirley's forecast (Luffy holding his strawhat)
Official Fishman Island Discussion
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I wonder whether SH pirates will only go through Grand Line and new world once?
Maybe Shirley prediction will occur in their second travel?? Cause I haven't seen the picture shown in Shirley's forecast (Luffy holding his strawhat)For storytelling's sake, it's most likely to happen now if at all.
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You know what? I'm still wondering if Shirley's prediction is gonna come true during this aftermath. We saw her wondering if Luffy smashing the Noah is what she really foresaw, but I dunno, there's obviously still time for it to literally happen for whatever reason.
Well, Shirley said herself that it could happen at ANY time so I've been thinking that it won't happen this arc.
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Well, Shirley said herself that it could happen at ANY time so I've been thinking that it won't happen this arc.
But again, for storytelling's sake, it's not likely to happen far into the future, since that would either mean doing it in their second lap around the world or backtracking specifically to do it, both of which are not worth discussing. Either it already happened and she was simply mistaken about what was being destroyed, or it's going to happen relatively soon while everyone's in a false state of security. And considering it's also been said she's never wrong, it could easily be the latter.
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It's kinda weird to see main antagonists actually arrested as their end result of the arc.That only happened once before(to BW) and that wasn't even after the end of the arc.
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Luffy can use Poisdon can be use by Luffy in a number of ways.
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Luffy can use Poisdon can be use by Luffy in a number of ways.
How can Luffy use posiedon? Poseidon's a person if you didn't read last chatper you know.
He could ask her to do something, and she could do it, but he can't USE her. Unless you think Luffy is going to turn evil all of a sudden and start forcing her to do things, or hold neptune hostage and make her do his bidding, ect.
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He can use her in an infinit amount of ways.
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He can use her in an infinit amount of ways.
oh you convinced me. great argument.
So please tell me. How can Luffy use Shirahoshi? What would he use her for? Why would he use her?
If shirahoshi doesn't join, kind of limits his "usage" of her now wouldn't it? How can he use her if she is in Fishman Island and the strawhats are ANYWHERE but there?
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Same way he used Boa Hancock, Iva and Chopper, his emergency pootang, doctor and emergency food supply.
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Rereading the FI flashback because I flew through it the first time (I had just finished the anime, and had never read a manga so I read it way too fast).
When reading, I came to this page and I was shocked because I've seen no discussion on this whatsoever.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/626/11
Who will be the one to guide Shirahoshi?
Oh, and the picture of Shirahoshi in the bottom panel looks familiar as well.
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Oh, and the picture of Shirahoshi in the bottom panel looks familiar as well.
It's the same one with Robin at the last panel of Chapter 649 last week (grown up version) - http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/649/18
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well I really thoght that fismanarc was over but I guess not…
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I see that The Prediction of shirely has yet to happen with Luffy and co Beating the 2 messengers Making "a monster that would even attack a entire country just for Candy" Angry.
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I see that The Prediction of shirely has yet to happen with Luffy and co Beating the 2 messengers Making "a monster that would even attack a entire country just for Candy" Angry.
Well Luffy loves not being the Hero. He and his crew "could" destroy fishman island on purpose in order to make it look like they broek the factory and ate all the candy and destroyed the island.
How can Big Mam get angry at fishman island for that. It's her job to protect them isn't it. Plus fishman island is destroyed already, so can she really retaliate? Only logical course of action of set her angry eyes on the strawhats.
And bam Shirley's prediction comes true. Luffy does destroy fishman island. Though strangely it due to the fishman people "asking" him to do it.
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It's the same one with Robin at the last panel of Chapter 649 last week (grown up version) - http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/649/18
Oh, I didn't mean I didn't know where it was from. I was just pointing that out. It's hard to understand tone on the internet :(
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I see that The Prediction of shirely has yet to happen with Luffy and co Beating the 2 messengers Making "a monster that would even attack a entire country just for Candy" Angry.
I don't see them beating the messengers in a serious fight and with their "titles" Baron, doubt they are fodder and are probably stronger than Luffy and co rigth now.
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So much negativity towards Big Mam.
I'm thinking she will arrive in FI, find Luffy & Co and is actually glad to see them (she IS Lola's mom) and forgives Fishman Island since they were just nearly killed.
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Why would she arrive at Fishman Island if she sent two messengers instead?
I doubt she is going to appear and if she indeed does and its confirmed she is Lola's mom nothing bad will happen, heck Luffy might get a nice "ally" in the new world.
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I think it is more likely that somehow the situation will end up reversed so that the Strawhats are seem as pirates who have taken FI from Big Mam and turned it into their territory, and that they even took all the candy from Big Mam for themselves. This way FI wouldn't be blamed for not delivering the candy, and the SH would take the blame instead, setting up the first conflict between them and a Yonkou (which wouldn't need to be resolved right now, only later in the NW)…
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Wow, these two pages are nice callbacks:
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I think it is more likely that somehow the situation will end up reversed so that the Strawhats are seem as pirates who have taken FI from Big Mam and turned it into their territory, and that they even took all the candy from Big Mam for themselves. This way FI wouldn't be blamed for not delivering the candy, and the SH would take the blame instead, setting up the first conflict between them and a Yonkou (which wouldn't need to be resolved right now, only later in the NW)…
I'm gonna go with this theory until proven otherwise. I never thought of it that way but it does make the most sense. Besides what better way for the SH's to make noise then to be put on Big Mam's shit list?
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I think it is more likely that somehow the situation will end up reversed so that the Strawhats are seem as pirates who have taken FI from Big Mam and turned it into their territory, and that they even took all the candy from Big Mam for themselves. This way FI wouldn't be blamed for not delivering the candy, and the SH would take the blame instead, setting up the first conflict between them and a Yonkou (which wouldn't need to be resolved right now, only later in the NW)…
Okaaay, down with this.
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I think Luffy's natural abilty to interest people will save FI. Why would Big Mam just own Luffy knowing he helped Shurohige and possibly that he is friends with Shanks. I think the yonkou have a thing against picking young sprouts. Not to mention fucking with Dragons son is fucking suicide.
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I think Luffy's natural abilty to interest people will save FI. Why would Big Mam just own Luffy knowing he helped Shurohige and possibly that he is friends with Shanks. I think the yonkou have a thing against picking young sprouts. Not to mention fucking with Dragons son is fucking suicide.
Luffy isn't a young sprout anymore, especially haven made it to New World.
But of course for narrative reasons no way would Oda have them have a definitive fight yet.
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I think Luffy's natural abilty to interest people will save FI. Why would Big Mam just own Luffy knowing he helped Shurohige and possibly that he is friends with Shanks. I think the yonkou have a thing against picking young sprouts. Not to mention fucking with Dragons son is fucking suicide.
Big Mum could very well be an enemy of Whitebeard.
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@Monkey:
Luffy isn't a young sprout anymore, especially haven made it to New World.
But of course for narrative reasons no way would Oda have them have a definitive fight yet.
he's 19 or twenty he's still a young sprout, thinking otherwise is idiotic.
Big Mum could very well be an enemy of Whitebeard.
I never said she wasn't or that they were friends I said that Yonkou have a thing about picking young sprouts. It would be befitting of their personalties if they welcomed future threats. Shurohige said why should he be afraid he's Whitebeard, Teach spared Luffy before of course learning his bounty. I don't see why Big Mam wouldn't want Luffy to grow to his full potential before engaging him other than to teach him a lesson.
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I never said she wasn't or that they were friends I said that Yonkou have a thing about picking young sprouts. It would be befitting of their personalties if they welcomed future threats. Shurohige said why should he be afraid he's Whitebeard, Teach spared Luffy before of course learning his bounty. I don't see why Big Mam wouldn't want Luffy to grow to his full potential before engaging him other than to teach him a lesson.
We don't know anything about Kaidou or Big Mom so you can't say "befitting of their personalities".
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I think it is more likely that somehow the situation will end up reversed so that the Strawhats are seem as pirates who have taken FI from Big Mam and turned it into their territory, and that they even took all the candy from Big Mam for themselves. This way FI wouldn't be blamed for not delivering the candy, and the SH would take the blame instead, setting up the first conflict between them and a Yonkou (which wouldn't need to be resolved right now, only later in the NW)…
Or it could be something as simply as "The Strawhats came to the island, destroyed the factory and stole all the candy". This way, not only would the SH take all the blame, but Fishman Island would still be under Big Mam's protection (FI still needs it, after all) because the havoc caused by the SH would be technically Big Mam's responsibility as FI is her territory.
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Or it could be something as simply as "The Strawhats came to the island, destroyed the factory and stole all the candy". This way, not only would the SH take all the blame, but Fishman Island would still be under Big Mam's protection (FI still needs it, after all) because the havoc caused by the SH would be technically Big Mam's responsibility as FI is her territory.
Yes, I thought like that too, I just added the conquer of territory to make the story a little more interesting. :)
But the main point of the theory is the SH ending up taking the blame instead of FI. -
i like this theory,but may be even strawhat pirates taking the blame won't be enough for big mam…....i somehow expect shirley's prediction of destruction would still happen...by the hand of big mam and luffy,though unable to save it,help the islanders to embark on noah...that image shirley saw was perhaps the last time strawhat looking at the burning island....may be it is the time to fulfill that 'promise' and big mam is the final catalyst...
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Luffy was going to destroy the Baratie because it was in dispute of ownership. He could very well try to do the same when Big Mum shows up.
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Lol,I knew the casket thingy would continue the 'legends are exaggerated facts' trope started with Vander Decken/flying Dutchmen.
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thats a good theory, except I posted it in the first pages of this chapter's discussion, :/. Not sure if it was around in the spoiler section, tough.
Its just obvious that the straw hats will get the blame for the candies, and leave like thieves, its even more probable when this arc is analogous to Skypiea in many ways. -
@gotta<3OP:
thats a good theory, except I posted it in the first pages of this chapter's discussion, :/. Not sure if it was around in the spoiler section, tough.
Its just obvious that the straw hats will get the blame for the candies, and leave like thieves, its even more probable when this arc is analogous to Skypiea in many ways.I don't know. Even if they got the blame I couldn't see Luffy just up and leaving with the possibility of Big Mam attacking the island regardless. Besides too many lose ends to deal with. I'm certain this arc won't be over for a while.
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From where I'm looking at, this deal with Big Mam can go in a several direction:
A. Big Mam herself shows up, the SH confront her :
1). Turns out to be an ally through the "Lola's Mom" plot device : All is well
2). They fight, but halfway through its postponed due to whatever reason : Showdown in the New World (several arcs later)
3). They fight, and the SH wins : A very unlikely outcome (I shouldn't even have to explain why)
4). They fight, and Big Mam wins : Unlikely, it's just bad to have them lose again right after these 2 Years trainingB. Big Mam's emissary shows up, the SH confronts him/her/them :
1). The SH loses : Unlikely, same reason as above
2). The SH wins : They get a bounty raise when the news spread and redirected Big Mam's attention from FIOut of all those possibilities, I find the last one is the most likely to happen. It provides a solution to FI's problems and its a callback to Whiskey Peak, where upon entering GL they got in trouble with a Shichibukai, and now upon entering NW the SH got in trouble with a Yonkou. Its a nice touch IMO
The 2nd more likely outcome is where Big Mam shows up but halfway through the fight, it got postponed. The reason is the same as above, but we get Big Mam's character design and a hint of her power as a bonus.
The 3rd one will of course be the ally route, it gives another solution to FI. And we still get Big Mam's appearance and hints of her power, but its a more happy-happy-joyful entrance to New World kinda thing. And it somewhat reduces the excitement, due to having 2 of the Yonkous already on their side (Shanks & Big Mam)
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Bonus direction –--> She shows up, they start fighting and halfway during the fight they discover she's Lola's mother.
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Bonus direction –--> She shows up, they start fighting and halfway during the fight they discover she's Lola's mother.
Its actually the first one, the ally "route". It doesn't matter whether they are actually fighting or not as long as the outcome is still "she becomes the SH's ally"
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Of course, but I find it slighty different from the simple "She shwos up BANG! ally" scenario.
And we know nothing about her personality. I'm not sure she'll be fine with FI even if the SHs will take the blame for the candy factory. -
I dont think Big Mams gonna appear anytime soon just her messengers.Oda will build up to her apperance simlar to the way he built up to Crocodiles appearnce with Baroque works.My guess is that the issue with Fi will be he first of many misunderstandings hthat will lead to the Shs clashing with the Big Mams crewmmebers over a few occasions over the next 2-3 arcs.Finally Big Mam and her commanders confornt the Shs personally but the clash comes to a peaceful resolution when Luffy discovers Big Mam is Lolas mom and also saves Big Mams life from some enemy which will prove to Big Mamm that Lufy isnt so bad.Luffy will not defest Big Mam.Kaido and BB are the ones who will fall by Luffys hand
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I dont think Big Mams gonna appear anytime soon just her messengers. Oda will build up to her apperance simlar to the way he built up to Crocodiles appearance with Baroque works. My guess is that the issue with the Fishman Island will be the first of many misunderstandings that will lead to the Strawhats clashing with the Big Mams crewmmebers over a few occasions over the next 2-3 arcs. Finally Big Mam and her commanders confornt the Strawhats personally but the clash comes to a peaceful resolution when Luffy discovers Big Mam is Lolas mom and also saves Big Mams life from some enemy which will prove to Big Mamm that Lufy isnt so bad. Luffy will not defeat Big Mam. Kaido and BlackBeard are the ones who will fall by Luffys hand.
sounds like oda's style :ninja:… though i guess oda will make it slightly more interesting =P.
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I think, that clash between SHs and Big Mam depends on, if Oda wants to get a new crewmate in Fishman island (Jinbe, shirahoshi or some other character) or not. If strawhats are going to get a new crewmate i strongly belive that, Luffy and others are going to be on FI for quite some time(fighting with messengers, destroying the island and other usual stuff). However i see another option in escaping in a hurry while stealing treasure, just like they did in skypiea.
I`d personally go with the first theory (cause it seems more probable, unless Oda wants to troll us) so we can get more information about the events around the world.
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i like this theory,but may be even strawhat pirates taking the blame won't be enough for big mam…....i somehow expect shirley's prediction of destruction would still happen...by the hand of big mam and luffy,though unable to save it,help the islanders to embark on noah...that image shirley saw was perhaps the last time strawhat looking at the burning island....may be it is the time to fulfill that 'promise' and big mam is the final catalyst...
Bonus direction –--> She shows up, they start fighting and halfway during the fight they discover she's Lola's mother.
I think both of these are the most likely scenario.
We know Oda has a grand design of plots and he likes to connect events and nothing happened without a reason.
Shirley's prediction, Joyboy's promise, Noah, Otohime's dream and Lola's vivre card all will lead to the migration of Fishman Island to the surface of sea.
Strawhat will fight Big Mam and ends up being ally. The fight somehow will lead to FI destruction or give people of the island stronger reason to move on. -
I somehow don't like the idea of having Big Mam as an ally, I prefer her to be an enemy. Them entering New World with a Yonkou on their trail kinda adds excitement and suspense. Similar to the time they entered Grand Line with Crocodile on their trail.
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Wow, these two pages are nice callbacks:
Is it just me or does that man with the power to guide shirahoshi look like shanks. Atleast it looks like his typical pose.
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I somehow don't like the idea of having Big Mam as an ally, I prefer her to be an enemy. Them entering New World with a Yonkou on their trail kinda adds excitement and suspense. Similar to the time they entered Grand Line with Crocodile on their trail.
Exactly. Lola said to look for her mom if they ever got into trouble and being pursued by marines and subordinates of a Yonkou is definitely trouble. Having an Emperor oars an ally is pretty ridiculous.
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Ok, theorizing time. When I first saw the idea mentioned that the ES and Arabasta Holy Water could be related, I dismissed it quickly and moved on. Mostly because of the Tamatebako. Then bren convinced me to seriously consider the possibility, and I've now changed my tune about the idea.
First, my theory itself. I'm thinking that ES and its cousins were distributed to the Ancient Civilization (AC from now on) by the group that is now the World Government (WG), or their version of Cipher Pol at the time. Then the AC countries used this drug to fight against the WG, and after having success early they were severely crippled. Several countries such as Alabasta and FI were forced to surrender. Those countries made the drug forbidden and locked it up. In FI specifically, the legend of the pills that made you old that were stored in the Tamatebako, over the course of 900 years, changed into the box itself having the power, and affected the pills. Then in the case of the Shandians, they were able to use the drug to successfully defend their country, but their population was mostly wiped out as a result of the after effects. This would explain why the WG didn't take the gold (and bell and poneglyph) with them after Shandra fell.
The main reason I give this theory some serious merit is the intent of the void century itself. We've known forever that the WG did something atrocious to gain power and covered it up, but I've never had any good ideas on what that could be. I've seen theories that the DF's came into existence then, but there's little to no supporting evidence of that. There's also the mess of the ancient weapons, but when both sides possess them, the use of the weapon could easily be portrayed as self defense. It doesn't really seem worth wiping out history over. However, if the WG tricked the AC into poisoning themselves, and at the cost of heavy losses to the WG soldiers in the coming battles, then that's something I can get behind covering up. The theory also seems to fit the story, so I believe it has some merit.
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But the war lasted for 100 years. And why would the AC take the pills to begin with? -
What makes you think they fought for 100 years? Nobody knows what happened in that period. The fighting could have all taken place over the course of just a few years.
And the AC would take the pills for the same reason Hody did. To become strong. I'm sure they wanted to win the war, after all, and would have been unaware of the aftereffects until it was too late.
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First, my theory itself. I'm thinking that ES and its cousins were distributed to the Ancient Civilization (AC from now on) by the group that is now the World Government (WG), or their version of Cipher Pol at the time. Then the AC countries used this drug to fight against the WG, and after having success early they were severely crippled. Several countries such as Alabasta and FI were forced to surrender. Those countries made the drug forbidden and locked it up.
But why would the government have made several variations of the same drug? Why not just give them all the pills instead of holy water or whatever else? Would it be to just throw off the countries from finding out that they were all provided with the same drug? While that might be a plausible reason at first, I find it hard to believe that the countries wouldn't have caught on, especially if they were having success stories. These battles had to take at least a period of several weeks, if not months. And if thousands of people are taking these pills or whatever else they may have been provided with, I feel that word would have quickly gotten out to each other that these countries were using special items to boost the performance of their soldiers, regardless of the item that they were using, which in turn would have aroused suspicion on how several countries could have obtained these things in a similar time frame.
And the AC would take the pills for the same reason Hody did. To become strong. I'm sure they wanted to win the war, after all, and would have been unaware of the aftereffects until it was too late.
And just like Hody, I find it hard believe that some soldiers didn't attempt to overdose on those drugs early on, regardless if it was done out of greed for power or a desperate attempt to save themselves from a powerful foe. Obviously, you wouldn't give the drugs to all of your soldiers. You would gradually try them out, meaning eventually someone would have been an idiot and overdosed on those things. Even if they didn't go quite as overboard as Hody, I think it would have been quickly apparent that the drugs had negative side effects. Especially the holy water, since it seemed to have readily apparent side effects in a short time span. It just feels like Oda would have to do a lot of twist and turns with this to make it plausible, to the point that it just seems he could do something much simpler to provide us with an explanation about the downfall of those countries.
On the whole, if Oda had given more coverage of the holy water, like he has with the pills, I might be willing to believe that there was a connection; but given how quickly the holy was just tossed aside after those guys went down, it just seems too much to believe that there is connection to them now.