@GypsyCarts hugs I'm sorry you have to go through this. And I agree with seeking professional help. You shouldn't have to work through it alone.
Confession Session - LOCK THIS THREAD
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As someone who has searched out and received professional help for psychological issues, I highly encourage it.
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Okay. I'm not proud of it, I know I need help and blah blah.
! So, I'm on a weight loss kick. Living on my own and buying foods that I want have permitted me to cut out most fatty foods I used to indulge in. But it was also given me a free range to start making myself throw up again. I have no idea what came over me. A week ago, after downing a bottle of water, I felt this urge to do it. After tearfully debating with my internal pleas against it, I did it anyway. It felt so good for a moment, but then shame kicked in and I let myself have it.
! I was so upset. After months of being okay and even getting stressed over my family, house and etc. I didn't break down and do it. Even if I wanted to. But for some reason, I kept saying that it's worth it. It's like there is this ideal Emily that chimes in when I feel weak and un-pretty. I can picture her vividly, and then get openly sad when I look in the mirror and don't look like her.
! Two days ago, there was this piece of cake at work that a second shift woman left for me. I wanted it. And one slice of cake won't do lasting damage, I know that. I seriously do. After I convinced myself that it was okay, I ate it. Four bites in, I threw the dish and cake into the sink as hard as I could. The dish shattered and the droplets of water morphed with the cake into a gooey mess. I started to get really teared up. Cleaning up the mess, I dashed into the bathroom and did the only thing I knew to punish myself. I shoved my fingers down my throw and threw up. But this time scared me. I got dizzy when I stood up, I banged against the towel holder and started to puke without my control. (Into the toilet, thankfully.)
! It scared me. Badly. I keep saying it was my wake up call. But I don't know. For the rest of the shift, I sat in the recliner and zoned out. All I could feel was downright ashamed of myself. And I had no one to blame but me. I broke a dish like a fucking child. I got upset over a small pleasure. I didn't deserve that cake. I didn't deserve a good thing. I shy away from things that are good. And I have no idea why.
! Why do I do this? I know I need help. But I'm trying to pick down what exactly sparks this for me. My greatest fear is not being loved, which I have equated with weight. But why?
! Urgh. My brain hurts and I was apple cider.! First of all, did you get help before? I guess you would have done it before if something didn't stand in your way so maybe that's the thing to focus on first, instead of why it is happening. Rejection is not something that will happen.
Second while it seems like you got a fall back it doesn't look like this negativity truly left you at all. I think that you know what's going on, you don't seem like a person who would see that something is wrong without investigating (and that might result in a certain imaginative standard in what you are going through). From my view point the problem is that you can't get the weight of it off your back and maybe reflect it over to other things in a different way (if that makes sense). However I'm not authorized to anything so I shouldn't speak at all. I dunno… Either way a professional might just be the clutches you might need to take your first step (poetic eh?). You are probably tired of hearing that. I can tell you that even if you lie your way through it it helps. Doesn't necessarily make you think, but helps you sort out the thoughts you have so you can get some mind peace. If you can't make your self reach out then perhaps ask someone you trust to do it. All that matters is that you want to get better without hiding in the shadow of the disorder.
! Now all I personally know is that the only moment you are completely out of this mess is when the feelings associated with the disorder are gone and it has been substituted with a grey memory of it. That goes for stress, depression and so on. Is it normal to feel those things? Of course, it happens to the best! At the same time though it's most certainly not necessary! People say it never really leaves you but that's complete BS. Now, I can't tell you to do this and don't do that ma' little rebel, that would be dumb, but I can say that everything can get better when you decide to force this negativity away.
You are too effin' goodhearted to be feeling this. In fact I may just force this fact in your face until you realize it.
! Now, Captain Obvious here will just be sliding out… Slowly... 'Kay goodbye. -
Okay. I'm not proud of it, I know I need help and blah blah.
! So, I'm on a weight loss kick. Living on my own and buying foods that I want have permitted me to cut out most fatty foods I used to indulge in. But it was also given me a free range to start making myself throw up again. I have no idea what came over me. A week ago, after downing a bottle of water, I felt this urge to do it. After tearfully debating with my internal pleas against it, I did it anyway. It felt so good for a moment, but then shame kicked in and I let myself have it.
! I was so upset. After months of being okay and even getting stressed over my family, house and etc. I didn't break down and do it. Even if I wanted to. But for some reason, I kept saying that it's worth it. It's like there is this ideal Emily that chimes in when I feel weak and un-pretty. I can picture her vividly, and then get openly sad when I look in the mirror and don't look like her.
! Two days ago, there was this piece of cake at work that a second shift woman left for me. I wanted it. And one slice of cake won't do lasting damage, I know that. I seriously do. After I convinced myself that it was okay, I ate it. Four bites in, I threw the dish and cake into the sink as hard as I could. The dish shattered and the droplets of water morphed with the cake into a gooey mess. I started to get really teared up. Cleaning up the mess, I dashed into the bathroom and did the only thing I knew to punish myself. I shoved my fingers down my throw and threw up. But this time scared me. I got dizzy when I stood up, I banged against the towel holder and started to puke without my control. (Into the toilet, thankfully.)
! It scared me. Badly. I keep saying it was my wake up call. But I don't know. For the rest of the shift, I sat in the recliner and zoned out. All I could feel was downright ashamed of myself. And I had no one to blame but me. I broke a dish like a fucking child. I got upset over a small pleasure. I didn't deserve that cake. I didn't deserve a good thing. I shy away from things that are good. And I have no idea why.
! Why do I do this? I know I need help. But I'm trying to pick down what exactly sparks this for me. My greatest fear is not being loved, which I have equated with weight. But why?
! Urgh. My brain hurts and I was apple cider.It's amazing how something little like cake can break someone down isn't it? I know how it feels to get into the "I don't deserve anything good" level of depression. You know you need some help, so there's really not much I can say other than reminding you that you are loved.
If you ever want to talk, you know where to find me.
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Okay. I'm not proud of it, I know I need help and blah blah.
! So, I'm on a weight loss kick. Living on my own and buying foods that I want have permitted me to cut out most fatty foods I used to indulge in. But it was also given me a free range to start making myself throw up again. I have no idea what came over me. A week ago, after downing a bottle of water, I felt this urge to do it. After tearfully debating with my internal pleas against it, I did it anyway. It felt so good for a moment, but then shame kicked in and I let myself have it.
! I was so upset. After months of being okay and even getting stressed over my family, house and etc. I didn't break down and do it. Even if I wanted to. But for some reason, I kept saying that it's worth it. It's like there is this ideal Emily that chimes in when I feel weak and un-pretty. I can picture her vividly, and then get openly sad when I look in the mirror and don't look like her.
! Two days ago, there was this piece of cake at work that a second shift woman left for me. I wanted it. And one slice of cake won't do lasting damage, I know that. I seriously do. After I convinced myself that it was okay, I ate it. Four bites in, I threw the dish and cake into the sink as hard as I could. The dish shattered and the droplets of water morphed with the cake into a gooey mess. I started to get really teared up. Cleaning up the mess, I dashed into the bathroom and did the only thing I knew to punish myself. I shoved my fingers down my throw and threw up. But this time scared me. I got dizzy when I stood up, I banged against the towel holder and started to puke without my control. (Into the toilet, thankfully.)
! It scared me. Badly. I keep saying it was my wake up call. But I don't know. For the rest of the shift, I sat in the recliner and zoned out. All I could feel was downright ashamed of myself. And I had no one to blame but me. I broke a dish like a fucking child. I got upset over a small pleasure. I didn't deserve that cake. I didn't deserve a good thing. I shy away from things that are good. And I have no idea why.
! Why do I do this? I know I need help. But I'm trying to pick down what exactly sparks this for me. My greatest fear is not being loved, which I have equated with weight. But why?
! Urgh. My brain hurts and I was apple cider.Wall of text, AHOY!
! Hmm… On one hand you threw up the water because you thought it'd feel good and on the other hand you threw up the cake to punish yourself? This seems a bit off. I think the second time you lied to yourself. You didn't do it to punish yourself, you just used that as an excuse to puke without feeling guilty. Which you felt right after doing it because you knew what you did was bad for your health.
! You already know you need help and I hope you seek out help from a professional soon. I am not one but let me say a few things that are pretty simple and logical and you could try discussing them with yourself. And before I start, please leave your guilts at the door. You ARE NOT a bad person. You ARE NOT a stupid person. You ARE NOT a crazy person. This is a purely psychological problem ANYONE could have. Heck, one of my aunts also suffered from this. A grown-up woman with family and loved ones. And the point I am making with this is that even if you find someone to love you just like you are and think you are perfect, you will probably keep dealing with this and make yourself feel worse and less deserving of his love etc etc. I hate my body too. I've always hated it with a passion and put myself down for it. Now though I am working my damn hardest to love it, not just for me but for the man who loves me as well. Because he deserves to have a self-respecting woman. I owe him that much for the love and happiness he gives me.
! First of all, to me it seems that at the end of the day, that little voice in your head, that 'ideal Emily' like you called it, seems to believe that the pros of puking, aka losing weight through not allowing your body to digest food and absorb the nutrients it needs from it, outweigh the cons. Now take a piece of paper and a pencil and make a list of the pros and the cons of puking. Put this list someplace you can read it daily and where you will able to add things if you think of more on both parts. I will give you some basic pros and cons to get you started. These are stuff you DO know. And you know that you know them. Thing is, it seems as if you try to ignore them. Will you do it though if you have to face them daily? I don't know and it's really up to you to try this out and see if it'll work. Remember though: DON'T PUT YOURSELF DOWN IF YOU SLIP AND IGNORE THE LIST EVEN FOR A DAY. You are human, not a friggin' robot. You can turn your back now and then and give it a rest when you feel like it. Just try not to do it too much. Ask from someone you trust to read it to you if you think you won't be able to face it on your own. Let me start the list:
! Pros of puking:
MIGHT lead to weight loss
Offers relief from bloating/nausea
! Aaaand I honestly can't think of more. This is your personal list anyway so you add what you think the pros are. I am off to do the cons now!
! Cons of puking:
Too much puking will most certainly cause loss of vital nutrients-vitamins
=> Leads to weakening of the body, thus to bad health
=> Loss of energy - Leads to you being lethargic
=> Loss of nutrients might lead to hair loss (D8!!!)
Too much puking might lead to stomach and esophagus damage
Stomach fluid is acid, thus might eat up the enamel of your teeth, aka damage your teeth
! And I will leave it to this. Keep adding things yourself. Things you really don't want to happen! Exaggerate too if you must. Just the possibility of losing even a bit of my precious mane, puts a screeching halt to a bunch of harmful (but tempting) things I could try (and they wouldn't really hurt me in small doses but screw that noise! I ain't sacrificing a single hair for my pleasure!!!).
Find something on your current self that you want to protect from this habit and do it with a passion. Sacrificing something important to you for a 'might happen if I do this' bonus, is very, very, very hard.
! Anyways. This is just a small thing you can try though, just to hold on to until you can get some serious and good advice by someone who really knows this stuff unlike nooby, unprofessional me.
! I wish you all the best Em and I want you to know that for me, there's no ideal Emily to be discovered through losing some weight. The ideal Emily is already there and just needs to get a bit more confidence and self-acceptance to get out. That's all.. -
Can everyone here please just listen to this. I kind of feel it applies to must of us in some way or form.
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Just sit, watch and reflect on it. -
wow, that's awesome. incredibly true as well.
@video:
Then in the same situation, we say "hold on a minute, why have i pulled this experience in? What is there to learn? What is it about me that's done this? Okay, got it."
At that point, your attitude, your imagination of yourself changes. (etc)Yeah, i went through a change like that last month and seriously re-assessed myself and some of my issues. and i feel so much better for it.
Almost like an entirely different person lol. -
Okay. I'm not proud of it, I know I need help and blah blah.
Okay so.
! When I was younger (from 14ish to 20ish) I went through a very bad phase with food. Don't eat for a week, eat 3 boxes of cookies in 15 minutes, make myself throw up, starve myself again, etc… I guess I'm still not completely done with since I spend my days not eating, and when my bf is home, I feast.
Let's be a little honest here.
I did it because I needed control over something. I wanted to be strong. Fuck it, I am. Look, I can eat whenever I want. Oh, yeah, I am proud, I'm not an animal like everyone else.
My body needs sleep ? Food ? Drink ? Well, only when I want to.
! What about you, Gyps ? -
I actually like the control of it. I have a lot of things that are basic to people that are twisted and beyond my control. I picked eating because either side has a negative outcome and I liked playing with the danger of both. (Under and over eating) I fear getting fat because of how people SEE me. Not that I look down on heavyset people. Just myself.
I don't know.
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Not much of a confession exactly, but it's been bugging me.
! I must say, I know which two people to not hang out with on certain days. usually I'll be with one or two of my friends from Japanese class… and there's a certain chemistry when certain people are together. It's kind of awkward sitting in between those two when they're having a conversation with each other, especially given the topic, which is one of two things, alcohol or, during class today, the topic of cheating. I admit I did that one summer on my math worksheets that my mom used to always make me do. I wanted to say something because it was just grating me the wrong way. He was making it sound like it's silly to want to achieve something with your own hard work. I don't like to fail at something, nobody does. But.. if I fail because I either didn't try or just didn't understand, that's what I deserve to get, much as I wish I could change it. I think some of my high school teachers' influence is part of why cheating makes me feel uncomfortable, and the other part is that it's kind of how I am. Working together with permission is altogether different. That being said, I can't help but be a smidgeon impressed by how complex their cheating systems were. It sucks when doing the morally right thing e.g. reporting it when you see it happening, causes people to hate you. I probably wouldn't be that person ever, but my 10th grade English teacher kind of makes one feel obligated to do what's right even if it's not easy to do it. They're my guilty conscience.
! at least they're probably not gonna hate on me for having a differing opinion, though. They were sharing their alcohol stories, and I mentioned at some point how I hated when people sometimes react when I say I don't feel like drinking alcohol. Some people are all "OMG YOU DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL YOU DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO HAVE FUN YOU DON'T HAVE A LIFE HOW SAD" goddamn, I want to punch people sometimes. I find the notion that I can't properly enjoy myself unless I'm drinking to be completely absurd. "To each their own" right? That's basically what they said to me and that if it was somehow making me uncomfortable, we could change topics. I said it was fine... I'm kind of on the fence on how it makes me feel because true, it's a tad awkward when you can't join in on a conversation at all because I have absolutely no way to relate, but one of my friends has tons of amazing and epic stories. IDK, there's only so many stories of getting drunk that I could stand to listen to in one sitting. It's not too unusual though. Most people here at college drink, do drugs, and all kinds of crazy shit which I never get into. I'm not gonna start just cuz everyone's doing it, but it's just awkward, that's all. Yeah, I'll just stick to my smoothies and coffee, thank you very much. I seem to have a strange fascination with alcohol though. I don't drink it, yet I'm curious to find out good brand names, what types of drinks there are, watching it being made, etc. tbh, it's mostly been for the sake of making a brief mention of it in a story, but still. I always stare at the bottles and stuff, wondering what it tastes like and yet never feeling inclined to try. Maybe it has something to do with how my parents raised me, IDK. it's actually kind of amusing how laid back they are. -
Not much of a confession exactly, but it's been bugging me.
! I must say, I know which two people to not hang out with on certain days. usually I'll be with one or two of my friends from Japanese class… and there's a certain chemistry when certain people are together. It's kind of awkward sitting in between those two when they're having a conversation with each other, especially given the topic, which is one of two things, alcohol or, during class today, the topic of cheating. I admit I did that one summer on my math worksheets that my mom used to always make me do. I wanted to say something because it was just grating me the wrong way. He was making it sound like it's silly to want to achieve something with your own hard work. I don't like to fail at something, nobody does. But.. if I fail because I either didn't try or just didn't understand, that's what I deserve to get, much as I wish I could change it. I think some of my high school teachers' influence is part of why cheating makes me feel uncomfortable, and the other part is that it's kind of how I am. Working together with permission is altogether different. That being said, I can't help but be a smidgeon impressed by how complex their cheating systems were. It sucks when doing the morally right thing e.g. reporting it when you see it happening, causes people to hate you. I probably wouldn't be that person ever, but my 10th grade English teacher kind of makes one feel obligated to do what's right even if it's not easy to do it. They're my guilty conscience.
! at least they're probably not gonna hate on me for having a differing opinion, though. They were sharing their alcohol stories, and I mentioned at some point how I hated when people sometimes react when I say I don't feel like drinking alcohol. Some people are all "OMG YOU DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL YOU DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO HAVE FUN YOU DON'T HAVE A LIFE HOW SAD" goddamn, I want to punch people sometimes. I find the notion that I can't properly enjoy myself unless I'm drinking to be completely absurd. "To each their own" right? That's basically what they said to me and that if it was somehow making me uncomfortable, we could change topics. I said it was fine... I'm kind of on the fence on how it makes me feel because true, it's a tad awkward when you can't join in on a conversation at all because I have absolutely no way to relate, but one of my friends has tons of amazing and epic stories. IDK, there's only so many stories of getting drunk that I could stand to listen to in one sitting. It's not too unusual though. Most people here at college drink, do drugs, and all kinds of crazy shit which I never get into. I'm not gonna start just cuz everyone's doing it, but it's just awkward, that's all. Yeah, I'll just stick to my smoothies and coffee, thank you very much. I seem to have a strange fascination with alcohol though. I don't drink it, yet I'm curious to find out good brand names, what types of drinks there are, watching it being made, etc. tbh, it's mostly been for the sake of making a brief mention of it in a story, but still. I always stare at the bottles and stuff, wondering what it tastes like and yet never feeling inclined to try. Maybe it has something to do with how my parents raised me, IDK. it's actually kind of amusing how laid back they are.Haha. Here in my country, cheating is like, A-okay. I used to have a cheating partner who sued to bully me. But since we become partners in cheating, we started becoming good friends, like sharing each other some food. Hehe.
Yes, I really am a laidback person. But sometimes, with all this kind people around me, I just feel like a huge bitch, which is someone I despise and I don't to turn out to be.
I'm just used being the victim.
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Can everyone here please just listen to this. I kind of feel it applies to must of us in some way or form.
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Just sit, watch and reflect on it.I took this video as we don't get experience points that let us level up because we keep complaining that the mobs are too strong and our player class is underpowered and the game needs balancing.
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! OH GOD CREEPY PERSON. some creepy little fucker tried to get into my room. thank fuck I had the door locked. I'm trying not to think about what would have happened if I didn't lock the door. He kept trying to force his way in, and then scratched at my door a couple times. I am incredibly paranoid, and now I don't feel safe. I was freaked out, and I regret not checking to see which way he went so I could perhaps find out more. one of the CAs on duty told me he might have been drunk. Since he wasn't around the general vicinity by the time I reported and got help, they can't really do anything. I have a number to call if he comes back…. I think I need help in not only reducing paranoia but staying calm. this is the first time this has happened... he is a complete stranger. I just wish I knew if this was just some drunk douchebag or an actual creeper.
! If I had a baseball bat, I think I'd want to pummel the shit out of him. I don't know why, but I just really really want to beat him up even though I know I wouldn't be able to kick anyone's ass. Is it normal to want to brutally maim people for inconsequential reasons? I mean, the CA was probably right about the guy being nothing but a drunk douchebag… but I can't think like that. In the back of my mind, I fear something bad happening, and I don't know how to cope with it. I want to cry and it's not really that big of a deal. It hasn't even happened multiple times and I'm already scared. But what if I were to go out one day and run into him? Like, right outside my door? I don't want to live in fear the rest of the year, but I know it's gonna continue to bother me. Maybe I just want to beat him up for peace of mind. Not that I have any tools to do that, but I wish I could. I don't know how to defend myself.. I want to be able to do that, but how? doesn't it take years of training? and if I did learn some defense, definitely not that wishy washy karate shit. Real defense. I've always had this mental problem of being afraid of my imaginings. A little caution never hurt anyone, but it's not good to be too paranoid is it? I should take cautions but not let it get to me like this. I feel like maybe I would not have this mental problem if I had some means of protecting myself. the other problem is that I am not disciplined at all. How can I expect to learn proper self-defense, when it's the epitome of what am I not? It would take years of hard work. Yes, creepy scratching at the door might be something to spur me on, but it's not a strong enough motivator. I've had this desire to learn for a while now… but it's just wishful thinking... I can't even maintain my health, much less transform into some sort of Chun Li ass kicker. -
Marimo, I've had somewhat of a similar experience in my old workplace.
Every time we were robbed, even if I wasn't there, I always wished being able to kill the fucker that pointed a gun at my co-workers, and I got some satisfaction out of imagining him crying and begging for mercy to boot.
We all have different reactions and reasons for them, but ultimately what you're probably experiencing is the 'shame' of being powerless, that you had no control. It's scary and infuriating at the same time.
I think it wouldn't hurt to carry a bat in the house or take karate (the latter would be good exercise anyway), but as scary as it is I think the fear will pass. I hated going to work the first time I was nearly robbed, but eventually I got back to normal with no big changes in my psyche overall. The fear will disappear.
Be cautious anyway though. Just long enough to get a feel if he'll really be a repeat offender or not. -
@Cuddles:
Marimo, I've had somewhat of a similar experience in my old workplace.
Every time we were robbed, even if I wasn't there, I always wished being able to kill the fucker that pointed a gun at my co-workers, and I got some satisfaction out of imagining him crying and begging for mercy to boot.
We all have different reactions and reasons for them, but ultimately what you're probably experiencing is the 'shame' of being powerless, that you had no control. It's scary and infuriating at the same time.
I think it wouldn't hurt to carry a bat in the house or take karate (the latter would be good exercise anyway), but as scary as it is I think the fear will pass. I hated going to work the first time I was nearly robbed, but eventually I got back to normal with no big changes in my psyche overall. The fear will disappear.
Be cautious anyway though. Just long enough to get a feel if he'll really be a repeat offender or not.I think you're right.. I hate not being in control of things. I also feel like if something were to happen, if you let the offender get away he'll come back to do it again. I'll have to make sure to never leave my door unlocked from now on. It'd be nice to know how to properly kick someone's ass. I always have this pent up stress and I want to take it out on someone or something. There seems to be several classes for this kind of stuff in the campus clubs and such. I don't know what's most practical though. …. and the strange thing is that just now, I thought maybe my sibling would know what's the most useful. He always, well maybe not always, but he's gotten into watching fights and different martial arts styles in recent years. Even though I didn't have to deal with a direct confrontation this time, I feel like I could almost hear him saying in his obnoxious way "I told you so," or something. He's made an offer to teach me a couple times but it always sounded like too much work. I always get so enraged when he decides he'll use me as a means to try his submission holds because there was nothing I could do. I even thought he'd break my arm and such a few times. ... actually no, I won't ask him. but he's just the sort of person who'd not give a shit if something happened to me. It's precisely why I hate being weak. Even if I can kick people in the shin, against a real opponent that straightforwardness wouldn't work. heck, doesn't even work on him.
Thanks for your support, Cuddles. I'm prone to panicking at the smallest things, so I was really distraught last night. I think I've calmed down a bit more.
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! I just learned that a girl who was my junior at college died a couple of days ago. She was drinking at her tenth-floor apartment with another junior of mine, and decided to sit at the window to enjoy the sea-breeze. Lost her balance and fell…
I know death is fairly commonplace in this day and age and I didn't know this girl that well. We were both on the college quizzing circuit, and I'd had a couple of conversations with her on a couple of other occasions. I'd also nursed a 'semi-crush' on her during our overlap time there. It's like a part of my college memories has been permanently tainted.
I don't know where exactly I'm going with this. Here's a perfectly healthy 22 year old, with a great job fresh out of college, and she dies. Just like that. All of a sudden. Her parents came down from their home and had to see her body, with head-injuries and all, to identify her. How would the poor souls be reacting?
I guess this has brought me face to face with human mortality. I'm thinking, "what if I die tomorrow?" To put things in perspective, I spent the last twenty-four hours of my life getting drunk, and sleeping to wear it off.
My friend put it the best, I think: "It is so fucked up. This fucking life... And death." -
Death is indeed horrible, it is scary and haunting. I think how you live your life is more important.
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Dude. That was a nasty way to go. I know how it is man. There was this guy I colloborated with in my Design class. He seemed perfectly healthy and I didn't assume anything was wrong with him until we got news he died. Note. I didn't get this news until weeks later and I thought he dropped off the radar like students typically do when a semester is at end. I read it in the the college paper and my heart literally dropped. I forgot exactly what his condition was… heart problems was probably it. It was just so sudden.
I don't know.. maybe as I get older, I'll have to one day accept that anyone personally know can just "go" in an instant. I laugh and joke about the day I'll die all the time, just keep my spirits up and live everyday like it's my last(sad or not). But I can't place that mindset on people I know. Friends or personal enemies.
Anyway, you'll live through this.
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I lost a sense of immortality with the cancer thing. even though it was nothing much. Just the whole "whoa hey some strange thing was growing in my neck out of nowhere" just really destroyed that whole youthful sense of casual assumption of immortality in me.
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I have had experience with death before. I've lost people in my family. I was once friends with this guy who's dad committed suicide soon after his mom's death due to cancer.
It's just that accidental death, due to it's sudden nature, has a much bigger shock. One moment everything's great, and a perfectly fine person's been wiped off the face of the planet the next. I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around that last bit. -
It's the fact that my mom's finally turned 60 that's put me in a funk. That and losing my cat. I try to pretend the clock isn't there, but I've probably made more of a big deal out of a third life crisis than others.
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Death is indeed horrible, it is scary and haunting. I think how you live your life is more important.
Personally I never understood why death is seen as horrible and scary. Sure, it's tragic when people die who could have had much longer, complete lives otherwise, but if it happens it happens. My dislike of death lies more in the fact that people get attached to each other, and I'd hate to die and cause suffering to those I love.
I agree a lot with your second sentence though. Living life is more important to me than worrying about death.
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Personally I never understood why death is seen as horrible and scary. Sure, it's tragic when people die who could have had much longer, complete lives otherwise, but if it happens it happens. My dislike of death lies more in the fact that people get attached to each other, and I'd hate to die and cause suffering to those I love.
I agree a lot with your second sentence though. Living life is more important to me than worrying about death.
Amen to that.
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I took this video as we don't get experience points that let us level up because we keep complaining that the mobs are too strong and our player class is underpowered and the game needs balancing.
Are you talking about MW3 or life?
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Personally I never understood why death is seen as horrible and scary. Sure, it's tragic when people die who could have had much longer, complete lives otherwise, but if it happens it happens.
I… I really want to investigate this statement. But perhaps, instead, all I'll say is:
You sure are fortunate to be able to take a "if it happens, it happens" to loved ones dying.
I get what you're trying to say, but it's a pretty insensitive way to say it.
Anyway, I feel you, Cool, and echo Hiroy's sentiments.
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Are you talking about MW3 or life?
Pretty much both. The complaints about life being unfair is similar to the complaints about a game being unfair. In the case of a game, sometimes it is, especially with glitches. Life, fairness is relative. The universe was made for variety with constraint. Some must be more fortunate than others. Although sometimes the gaps in fortune are vast enough that the tension creates a force to move things toward equilibrium.
Basically, I was joking.
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I wouldn't call it so much horrible or scary as shocking. Standing in front of human fragility is never an easy task. Knowing it happens does not stop you making plans. Do any of your plans have the contingency of accidental death involved? I want to travel the world after I finish grad school. What if the roof falls on my head in thirty minutes? What would my life have amounted to? That is the question which I have in my head right now. The initial shock stemmed from the fact that a complete person, whom I had had a few interactions, known for having their flaws and strengths, was just completely obliterated. Leaving nothing. Zilch. Nada. Without any warning. Takes time to come to terms with, I should guess.
And thanks for the kind words Sanji, Hiroy and Silence.
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Personally I never understood why death is seen as horrible and scary.
Death is a normal thing to happen, but I think most people that find death scary and horrible do so because it's a cause for separation from loved ones. I know that there are a few people in my life that I wouldn't want to live without, and that doesn't change just because them dying is something I knew would eventually happen.
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I… I really want to investigate this statement. But perhaps, instead, all I'll say is:
You sure are fortunate to be able to take a "if it happens, it happens" to loved ones dying.
I get what you're trying to say, but it's a pretty insensitive way to say it.
Anyway, I feel you, Cool, and echo Hiroy's sentiments.
Sorry, I don't see why it's insensitive. I'm just not as attached to life and people and I find myself very accustomed to change. Sh!t happens, and you can spend some time wondering why and asking yourself what could have been different, but sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that it happened and that's that.
It's not like I haven't seen death in my life, you can be sure that I have. But my reaction to it usually isn't of crying or mourning, but of wanting to do something with my life, because to me that's how I honor a loved one that's gone. I know if I were to die I'd be pissed to find out that loved ones are spending months in depression. The world is for the living. And f*ck, of course I miss them, I'm not a stone to not have feelings, but I don't want to be paralized by loss. I've lived a life in which most of my loved ones are always far away, and sometimes I'm not even sure at all I'll see them again, so I've learned to just keep living so that when I do see them I'll have stories and they'll see I didn't stop living. And it's not like they're dead to me either, because I remember the stuff they told me and taught me, and I respect their memories by applying that to my life and being a better person.
(Not saying crying and mourning is wrong, btw, this is just the approach I have. Perhaps not the right one for everyone, but for me it is.)Death is a normal thing to happen, but I think most people that find death scary and horrible do so because it's a cause for separation from loved ones. I know that there are a few people in my life that I wouldn't want to live without, and that doesn't change just because them dying is something I knew would eventually happen.
Well, I always think that being aware of the stuff that can happen is useful to accept it when it does. If you go through your life assuming change happens to other ones but not to you, then it's going to be much more of a punch to the guts when a close friend suddenly dies in an accident. We go through life thinking we'll have the same friends forever, or that our family will be intact as it is, but there's always a chance of divorce, death, separation, etc etc.
It's not a bad thing for people to be aware of this in the sense that it can lead to you cherishing things more. To me everyday I can spend with my mom or my brother is a blessing because I travel so much that every time I see them to me might be the last (in that sense, I find it extremely sad when I would hear other people complain about being with their families and them being such a pain during thanksgiving meals and being embarrasing, etc.). Every time I can be with friends I enjoy the moment, because it's a moment that might not ever come back. And regarding my own death … I always do what I want and what I love because I know that at any point a brick can fall on my head and I'm gone. Of course, I have goals and dreams, and I work for them everyday and if I die and don't accomplish them at least I'll die knowing I was working for them. But how would I feel if I treated myself as immortal, as "I won't die in years" and wasted my time drinking and smoking by myself, to then suddenly die in an hour? What a waste.Sadly, I also feel that to a lot of people bringing up death, disaster and separation is a negative thing. If I bring it up, I must be depressed! Well, no. There is nothing wrong with knowing these things are there and ready to happen at any moment. What I find wrong is when people are super aware of these things and use them as excuses to NOT do stuff. People becoming aware of death and using it as an excuse to NOT live their lives is a problem for me, because I want everyone to live life to the fullest and enjoy it. There's so much in the world to do, so much stuff to enjoy. Why should I spend any of that time terrified of death, something I know will happen anyways because it's out of my hands? If I waste time I'll do it worrying about the stuff I CAN change, like my attitude and my life.
I ended up saying more than I meant. Again, this is all me describing my opinions and justifying them with stuff that I believe. If you find anything I say insensitive or insulting, then I'm sorry, but I'm not going to censor myself just so others feel better about dealing with death.
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Sadly, I also feel that to a lot of people bringing up death, disaster and separation is a negative thing
Having lost a relative in a disaster, I honestly can't see how the fuck I'm supposed to look at disasters as a positive thing. I can see ways in which the other two might not necessarily be bad and can even give a person a reason to live, but I can't agree on this one. Who knows, destruction and lots of people dying and drowning might have been good somehow, but I just can't see it because it's something that actually affected me for once. I have to ask myself if I'd give half a damn if it had been anyplace else. Maybe it brings people together IDK. Must be nice to have such a positive mindset, though. I still don't have a strong reason that motivates me to do my best every day. I know it all boils down to excuses, but I just don't give a fuck and even though I'd like to, I don't know how to find my passions. Step out of my bubble of fear and insecurities and start doing something.
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I am probably not affected by death as most people because of the Taoist influence from my childhood. I read Zhuangzhi since elementary school and this is a story I still remember, which I believe to be pretty well-known and typical:
[hide]
"When Zhuangzi's wife died, Hui Zi went to mourn with him, but found Zhuangzi sitting on the floor with his legs stretched out in front of him, banging on a drum and singing.Hui Zi said:
"You lived with this woman, raised your children with her and got old together. That you don't cry about someone dying is one thing, but to be banging on a drum and singing shows complete lack of affection for her!"
Zhuangzi said:
"Not at all. When she first died, how couldn't I react to it! I thought back to the time before she was born. Not only before she was born, but to the time before she had any shape whatsoever. Not only before she had any shape, but to the time before she had any spiritual essence. So many different pieces blended together between the time when she was nothing at all and the time when she came into existence. As they evolved, so did her spiritual essence. As her spiritual essence evolved, her shape arose. As her shape evolved, she was born, and now the evolution has resulted in her death. Just like there are spring and autumn, summer and winter, the four seasons naturally progress from each other. For the time being she is lying down and appears to be sleeping in a huge room, and I started out rushing around trying to follow her while crying my eyes out. Then I realized I was simply trying to obstruct destiny, so I stopped."
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Sorry, I don't see why it's insensitive. I'm just not as attached to life and people and I find myself very accustomed to change. Sh!t happens, and you can spend some time wondering why and asking yourself what could have been different, but sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that it happened and that's that.
It's not like I haven't seen death in my life, you can be sure that I have. But my reaction to it usually isn't of crying or mourning, but of wanting to do something with my life, because to me that's how I honor a loved one that's gone. I know if I were to die I'd be pissed to find out that loved ones are spending months in depression. The world is for the living. And f*ck, of course I miss them, I'm not a stone to not have feelings, but I don't want to be paralized by loss. I've lived a life in which most of my loved ones are always far away, and sometimes I'm not even sure at all I'll see them again, so I've learned to just keep living so that when I do see them I'll have stories and they'll see I didn't stop living. And it's not like they're dead to me either, because I remember the stuff they told me and taught me, and I respect their memories by applying that to my life and being a better person.
(Not saying crying and mourning is wrong, btw, this is just the approach I have. Perhaps not the right one for everyone, but for me it is.)Your allergy to showing emotion, and falsely equating it with depression is a very bad symptom of unhealthy thinking toward showing emotion.
This will bite you in the ass if you keep living like this, and much harder than you can possibly imagine.
And you will end up depressed. -
Death is scary thing to most people because… it is in human nature to fear the unknown, and you don't know what happen to you once you are dead.
I ask myself everyday that "if I am to die today, will I have any regret?". All those dreams, ambitions, promising future, love, passion... all vapor into thin air in an instance, leaving words of love unsaid, deeds of good-will undone, promises unfulfilled, would I die smiling accepting my fate? Well, no? One just has to accept it, as in Buddhism it is called, Impermanence ( annica, muyo, one of the three characteristics of life.)
When I was to die when I was still young, it would be like this:!
It was my illusion that I had anything to lose. I don't. Nobody ever has anything to lose. Seeing from a nihilistic perspective, if you have nothing to lose, then just do what you want to do when you still can. From a Buddhist perspective, it is my attachments to my surroundings that is the seed of suffering. Then, just do what I do, no hope, no expectation, [because hope -(or as Buddhists call it in English, desire)- is the root of suffering.], and see what I can get.
This is starting to get silly, but if you are a One Piece fan, then living with a One Piece-ish attitude is fine as well. Doing it to the best of my ability , "I can't die yet… for my dream/nakama/ancestor...", and if I fail, well then, "If I die trying, then that is that", "I am just that much of a man".
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
On a side note: [hide] I actually prefer the word "hope" to "desire" when it comes to Buddhist attitude. In Vietnamese they both share the word "vong" (望 in Chinese). "Desire" implies the inclusion of something biological and as long as you are in a biological body, you can't entirely escape it. You are human and you have quite a number of needs to gratify, even when you say All you need is love. Hope is more of the mind, over which you have more control.
And when you replace "desire" with "hope", then you find Nietzsche to be surprisingly in agreement with Buddhism, as he said :“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs the torments of man”. And Henry Miller put it rather well: “Hope is a bad thing. It means that you are not what you want to be. It means that part of you is dead, if not all of you. It means that you entertain illusions. It's a sort of spiritual clap, I should say.”; “I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I am the happiest man alive.” [/hide]
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Sadly, I also feel that to a lot of people bringing up death, disaster and separation is a negative thing.
Having lost a relative in a disaster, I honestly can't see how the fuck I'm supposed to look at disasters as a positive thing. I can see ways in which the other two might not necessarily be bad and can even give a person a reason to live, but I can't agree on this one. Who knows, destruction and lots of people dying and drowning might have been good somehow, but I just can't see it because it's something that actually affected me for once. I have to ask myself if I'd give half a damn if it had been anyplace else. Maybe it brings people together IDK. Must be nice to have such a positive mindset, though. I still don't have a strong reason that motivates me to do my best every day. I know it all boils down to excuses, but I just don't give a fuck and even though I'd like to, I don't know how to find my passions. Step out of my bubble of fear and insecurities and start doing something.
I have to blame my phrasing on this one
"bringing up death, disaster and separation" is what "negative" is applied to. Not disaster itself, which I of course agree is something negative. Disasters are by virtue of the word negative. Otherwise you wouldn't call them disasters.
Confusion aside, I agree with what you say.@Monkey:
Your allergy to showing emotion, and falsely equating it with depression is a very bad symptom of unhealthy thinking toward showing emotion.
This will bite you in the ass if you keep living like this, and much harder than you can possibly imagine.
And you will end up depressed.If you disagree with me just say so and explain your own view. This is a thread for talking things out, not assigning psychological trauma to each other.
Sea: I agree with a lot of the ideas that you're putting forth, and it's refreshing to see you have such an open mind and willingness to explore an issue that is generally scary to people. I do admit that when reading One Piece that whole aspect resonated with me: the idea of chasing after dreams no matter what, and if death happens then being glad that there was a dream being followed and smiling.
Damn, that stuff on "hope" and "desire" is actually quite interesting … makes me still disagree with Nietzsche though, because if you have no hope/desire in life then what are you doing? I feel that it's ok to never be what you want to be because then you'll always be working towards something, and even though some may see it as an exercise in futility akin to sisyphus, to me it's something good because I believe happiness is in the journey, not the destination. Plus, if there's no "torment" in our lives, then how would humanity advance? We'd never have a reason to improve ourselves, or learn, or even live as we do now. -
Please don't answer sarcasm with sarcasm. I didn't even comment in the first place because I got what he was saying AND not only did I think I didn't need to intervene, I don't want to intervene.
No, seriously, I don't want to be the guy having to step in so just try and not get into a quip battle. I already regret my previous experience with Squash. -
Damn, that stuff on "hope" and "desire" is actually quite interesting … makes me still disagree with Nietzsche though, because if you have no hope/desire in life then what are you doing? I feel that it's ok to never be what you want to be because then you'll always be working towards something, and even though some may see it as an exercise in futility akin to sisyphus, to me it's something good because I believe happiness is in the journey, not the destination. Plus, if there's no "torment" in our lives, then how would humanity advance? We'd never have a reason to improve ourselves, or learn, or even live as we do now.
I think what I meant was hope is a bit different from desire and my take of Buddhism is a bit different from the traditional opinion, and I realized this just a few days ago due to personal loss. I said desire cannot be entirely escaped but hope can be. Desire is not necessarily wrong. Hope is the expectation of a result, desire is not necessarily. You can desire to act without desire to get. To act without hope is to focus on the journey rather than the destination. This is of course my own interpretation, which is why I prefer to use "hope" rather than "desire".
I think Krishnamurti said it best:| "…we know how the religious teachers and others have said that we should be desireless, cultivate detachment, be free from desire - which is really absurd, because desire has to be understood, not destroyed. If you destroy desire, you may destroy life itself. If you pervert desire, shape it, control it, dominate it, suppress it, you may be destroying something extraordinarily beautiful." |
What he said on hope is quite hard to comprehend, but it is the truth:
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Mystic_Musings/Jiddu%20krishnamurthy/krishnamurti_on_hope.htm -
Death is a pretty terrible point A.
Grappling with the pain of loss is something that makes someone stronger in the end once they learn to move past it, but I personally find it rude in the extreme to disrespect someone's point B in trying to get them to point C.
I won't presume to know the depth of your personal losses, nor judge you on them, but "I'm a nihilist who doesn't understand why people mourn death, shit happens, what's insensitive about that? – o hey Sea, I sure am glad you ain't a pussy about death," doesn't exactly endear you in a thread where people are confessing their deepest fears. May I suggest, Pangloss, that it is not always "ultimately for the best" if Jacques drowns in the bay of Lisbon? People have something to lose if they feel they have something to lose - it takes some brass balls to tell them to go pick out some silver linings, or worse - that their loss is irrelevant. There will never be another Jacques– that is mournful, to people who feel.
I know if my little sister died tomorrow, or someone, say, confided their shock over the sudden death of an acquaintance, I wouldn't be spouting quaint shounen Jump JRPG philosophy. Those days would be far off.
In reverence to the spirit of empathy sometimes "it sucks" is the best immediate answer to another's grief.At least, it's far less patronizing than what I'm reading here.
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"I'm a nihilist who doesn't understand why people mourn death, shit happens, what's insensitive about that?"
Well, first thing first, I am not a nihilist and I am not defending or arguing against anyone's opinions in this thread. I was simply providing perspectives from various philosophies like Taoism, Buddhism, Nihilism, etc. and my own.
I understand why people feel painful and sorrowful about the deaths of their loved ones or their own deaths. I don't think they really should, but I do understand why. I am not preaching apathy. What I am getting on is about how to overcome fear, not to insult it or suppress it.
In my humble opinion, to be sensitive is not to fear death. I can't speak for everyone, but I think fear is something meant to be overcome and people in general should work on overcoming it.If my sister was to die tomorrow, and it cannot be avoided, then what should I do about it? Telling her "It sucks!"; or first responding with an understanding silence and then gently whispering "Let live your last day to the fullest" and "I will accompany you till your last breath. Do you want to watch the sunrise with me"? I am speaking about my own choice and don't expect anyone else to follow it. Perhaps I am being insensitive and if so I'd like to apologize for it, but sometimes the truth offends. What I say is not necessarily truth, but is it to be taken into consideration? Can it be of help?
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My post was largely directed at Noqanky, don't really know why you'd cut off the part of the quote that signified just that.
Those are words right from his mouth, after all, and he was the one who didn't understand how someone could take it "the wrong way."I wasn't really aiming this at you because I don't think you've been disrespectful, per se.
You're talking about fear of loss and I'm talking about respect of loss, but, as far as where we meet in the middle - the parts that concern you - I agree, in theory, with live life to the fullest. It's the best advice; I just don't necessarily think it's always the most timely advice. It can be condescending, dismissive, and awfully rote - it asks mourners to not mourn. It's a band-aid for a gushing wound, especially useless when applied over a sudden trauma. In my opinion, sorrow is part of the healing process. When you experience these deep and rending losses, I don't know that not caring is the answer. It feels disrespectful of death and feeling. This is my quarrel with Noqanky.My issue was with his wholesale insensitivity - him more than you, because he was so blase about it. Of course, I don't think offending anyone was the intent of either of you.
But you don't always want to hear stranger's platitudes while staring at the grave, if you catch my meaning. Especially incurably optimistic ones.
@THE:
If my sister was to die tomorrow, and it cannot be avoided, then what should I do about it? Telling her "It sucks!"; or first responding with an understanding silence and then gently whispering "Let live your last day to the fullest" and "I will accompany you till your last breath. Do you want to watch the sunrise with me"? I am speaking about my own choice and don't expect anyone else to follow it. Perhaps I am being insensitive and if so I'd like to apologize for it, but sometimes the truth offends. What I say is not necessarily truth, but is it to be taken into consideration? Can it be of help?
To be clear, I meant "what do I want to hear if my sister is going to die tomorrow?" Surely not something like "these things happen for a reason."
I want commiseration - at least in the beginning. I can put a band-aid on my hurts later.
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I can understand what you are talking about and I can respect that.
Well, I personally don't have much to share on how to give the most respectful and courteous advice to people who suffered loss; so perhaps I can only, if you excuse me for derailing any topic we are on, talk more about how to overcome the fear of death, as I feel it is rather of concern. On a side note, I am not Krishnamurti's follower, but I agree with him on a lot of matter, and, if appropriate, I'd like to share his opinion on how to overcome it:
[hide]http://anmolmehta.com/blog/2009/10/08/overcoming-the-fear-of-death-krishnamurti-on-death/
Questioner: What makes us fear death?
Krishnamurti: Do you think a leaf that falls to the ground is afraid of death? Do you think a bird lives in fear of dying? It meets death when death comes; but it is not concerned about death, it is much too occupied with living, with catching insects, building a nest, singing a song, flying for the very joy of flying. Have you ever watched birds soaring high up in the air without a bear of their wings, being carried along by the wind? How endlessly they seem to enjoy themselves! They are not concerned about death. If death comes, it is all right, they are finished. There is no concern about what is going to happen; they are living from moment to moment, are they not? It is we human beings who are always concerned about death – because we are not living. That is the trouble; we are dying, we are not living. The old people are near the grave, and the young ones are not far behind.You see, there is a preoccupation with death because we are afraid to lose the known, the things that we have gathered. […]. We don’t want to leave the known; so it is our clinging to the known that creates fear in us, not the unknown. The unknown cannot be perceived by the known. But the mind, being made of the known, says, "I am going to end," and therefore it is frightened.
Now, if you can live from from moment to moment and not be concerned about the future, if you can live without the thought of tomorrow – which does not mean the superficiality of merely being occupied with today; it, being aware of the whole process of the known, you can relinquish the known, let it go completely, then you will find that an astonishing thing takes place.
Try if for a day – put aside everything you know, forget it, and just see what happens. Don’t carry over your worries from day to day, from hour to hour, from moment to moment; let them all go, and you will see that out of this freedom comes an extraordinary life that includes both living and dying. Death is only the ending of something, and in that very dying there is renewing. [/hide]
This is a more complicated article: http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Life_of_Masters/Jiddu/Krishnamurthy-Death.htm -
As of right now I'm doing calculus homework, and it's gotten me to thinking how much I'm not really liking college… My major (chemistry) is ok, I like it and all, but there are just some classes for it that I don't really want to take. Sure, there's a few classes that are going to suck anyways, but I hardly feel any motivation to get work done, which kind of terrifies me, because how am I going to motivate myself once I get a real job? I'm thinking of switching my major to English in which I can focus on creative writing, where I feel like I would be more productive, but I also fear that getting a job in creative writing won't support me financially like a job in chemistry would.
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Mr. zoro, the answer is simple. Do both
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Ah I don't know why I totally missed mentioning that I am in fact majoring in both chemistry and english. I also get a lot of odd looks when I tell people that, ha.
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I agree, in theory, with live life to the fullest. It's the best advice; I just don't necessarily think it's always the most timely advice.
To be clear, I meant "what do I want to hear if my sister is going to die tomorrow?" Surely not something like "these things happen for a reason."
Sometimes, silence may be the best advice and response after all.
That depends on how much we share mutual understanding with the ones we are giving sympathy. This may sound cheesy, but, if the empathy is high and our hearts are close to each other, we can just tell it with our eyes, our hearts and our gestures, instead of giving a sea of lectures about the meaning of life and death (better yet, discussing it with them before the bad news even comes, preparing for it even before any disaster happens). And words are sometimes unneeded.
Walking out of the doctor's room, slightly shaking head with frustrated eyes.
Putting arm on shoulder, gently looking at her eyes, sorrowfully but understandingly.
Holding her hands, carrying her on back, walking together in the beach as the sun set, admiring twilight.
Yeah, maybe, just maybe, there are times we can give the dying loved ones a sea of warmth and sympathy… in silence. -
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I left my father when I was 15.
He was a real bad father and the woman who was with him tortured me (mostly psychologically) for years. I don't regret anything.
He still usually called me twice a year for my birthday and around Christmas, still completely clueless about how they screwed up my childhood.
This year he didn't, and Christmas is coming and so I think about him and wonder if he died or maybe he forgot me.
I don't want to care at all. I think I'd actually feel free once and for all. -
First off, Noqanky, I kind of get how you feel. Over the few (thank God) deaths I've experienced over the years, I don't think any have impacted me too much. I've always shrugged, said "that sucks, oh well", and went on with my life. But here's the kicker: these folks were acquaintances. I can say that because I didn't know them too well or when it was family, I was too young to understand.
But that's where it ends with me. The idea of a friend or loved one dying right now terrifies me. If someone I really loved right now were to die, even someone here on AP I know on some level, I would be upset. I would very easily fall apart. Death, especially in a young person, is NEVER something you can just shrug about. When my friend died this last year, I almost wanted to shrug it off, like I always do, but that night I cried and cried and cried. I was so conflicted, so confused, that someone so young, someone about to be a father, could up and die like that.
My point is, Noqanky, I get your point of view, but ultimately, like Monkey King said, it's going to hurt you. Even if you try and shrug it off, you're just bottling your instinctive feelings up inside, and that's far worse than letting your sadness out. And I don't mean to offend, so if i come across that way, I apologize, but when someone dies and everyone's mourning, do they really need a hard-ass by their side telling them "that's life", or someone who can empathize with them and help them along in their grief.
We can build up barriers around death all we want, but they can't stop the emotion from coming in. It only stops it from getting out. I say this not to demean you, Noqanky, as I have respect for you, but I say this merely to show you there are some flaws in your line of thinking that you might not have thought about. I hope this helps somehow.
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@Elisabeth:
I left my father when I was 15.
He was a real bad father and the woman who was with him tortured me (mostly psychologically) for years. I don't regret anything.
He still usually called me twice a year for my birthday and around Christmas, still completely clueless about how they screwed up my childhood.
This year he didn't, and Christmas is coming and so I think about him and wonder if he died or maybe he forgot me.
I don't want to care at all. I think I'd actually feel free once and for all.I know how you feel. I don't want to care anymore either, but it's easier said than done. Worst part is that my great-grandmother in always telling me to call my dad because he misses me and wants to talk to me etc etc. Deep down, I know it's not true and she's doing it only because she couldn't accept the fact that her grandson "abandoned" the family. I'm not angry with her for that.
However, I still couldn't made that "magical" step I always wanted to do: to tell my father that I don't care anymore.
The problem is, I'm afraid and it's not entirely true… I don't like him... but I still feel sadness whenever I encounter a "real", caring father who loves his family and doesn't lie to his own children. Maybe I still haven't accepted the fact that I don't and won't ever have a father. Only thing I can hope is that I'll be wise enough to choose a man who will be a real dad to my kids...So, all I can say is that it's hard to not care even after all those things, but I believe (or better yet, hope) that someday, I can "forget" him...
! I have a "bigger" problem right now… my stepfather (I'm stunned by this wretched irony).
There was a litigation on Tuesday this week. I for some reason, was not required so they didn't question me. The bad part was after the whole thing. I'm not blind nor stupid. I could see what my stepfather has done and said. He's so stubborn to care about or accept the fact that he has many mistakes. Thus, he even refuses to do anything to change.
Worst of all, he claims that he loves us (me and my mom) and that we're his life... but he won't quit smoking, drinking or humiliating us.
My mom told me he even cried in the courtroom.
Now I can't decide what to do and I don't even know how should I feel. I'm sad but relieved, I hate him but I feel bad for him, I want to end our relationship but he refuses to accept this.
And again, I'm too afraid.
! Why can't I say those easy, simple words? Why? "I don't want to talk or meet with you anymore. You refused to change. I've had enough!"
This situation is actually worst that with my real father...Another thing: it annoys me that I still can't grow up. Sometimes I feel like a little child again who can't defend herself.
sigh
Out of control, everything's out of my control! -
Death is a pretty terrible point A.
Grappling with the pain of loss is something that makes someone stronger in the end once they learn to move past it, but I personally find it rude in the extreme to disrespect someone's point B in trying to get them to point C.
I won't presume to know the depth of your personal losses, nor judge you on them, but "I'm a nihilist who doesn't understand why people mourn death, shit happens, what's insensitive about that? – o hey Sea, I sure am glad you ain't a pussy about death," doesn't exactly endear you in a thread where people are confessing their deepest fears. May I suggest, Pangloss, that it is not always "ultimately for the best" if Jacques drowns in the bay of Lisbon? People have something to lose if they feel they have something to lose - it takes some brass balls to tell them to go pick out some silver linings, or worse - that their loss is irrelevant. There will never be another Jacques– that is mournful, to people who feel.
I know if my little sister died tomorrow, or someone, say, confided their shock over the sudden death of an acquaintance, I wouldn't be spouting quaint shounen Jump JRPG philosophy. Those days would be far off.
In reverence to the spirit of empathy sometimes "it sucks" is the best immediate answer to another's grief.At least, it's far less patronizing than what I'm reading here.
That is very clearly not what I said, but what you understood me to say.
Again, no need to get personal. Please don't change the meaning of my words. I'm not calling anyone a pussy, what I said to sea about it being "refreshing" to see his discussion is mostly based on the fact that as clear from Monkey King's response, and now yours, whenever I speak my mind I get blasted with discord and anger instead of people actually just explaining to me their views and respectfully disagreeing. When you share personal stuff and everyone insults you for it and assigns you trauma and disorders and put up shields against you, wouldn't you be glad and overjoyed to find someone who instead of doing that actually shares their views in such a friendly way??
My point is to explain my view, and when I say I don't understand yours I do it as an indirect question for you to explain it to me so I may understand your perspective better. I feel like I keep saying this but no one is understanding me, so I say it again: I am NOT trying to disrespect, lecture or imply that others are wrong, and if that's what you're getting from what I say then I apologize for not explaining myself carefully enough. My point was to share my view on things and justify it using what I've experience and what I've learnt, and if sharing my view is that much an insult to everyone then I'll just learn the lesson and shut up about things, even in a forum designed for people to share how they feel.
I cannot stress this enough–if there is any part of everything I said in which you felt personally like I was trying to tell you you're wrong and I'm right, I apologize for the confusion.Also, in response to Kitsune as well, I must stress the fact that I am not putting up barriers against emotions. Sh!t, if anything I wish I could control my emotions a lot of the times. I am not a stranger to crying at movies (just saw Up ... always gets me ...), or to randomly spouting off my love for someone even if it kicks me in the ass later on. When I feel sadness of course it's intense as hell and I let stuff out, but sooner or later I know that for me the answer is not to sink in it but to get back up and smile, not just for my own survival but also that of others who I can't let down. I have had close family members die and I miss them like hell and wish they were here and will never forget them. I don't just "shrug" it off or bottle it, I just decide that my way of honoring them is to live life with purpose and joy, because when I die that's what I would want of my loved ones.
And in that sense, no intention to offend anyone, but it frankly pisses me off when people assume I bottle up emotions and call me a nihilist, because it is an insult to my lifestyle and my honor, since I consider myself to enjoy life as best as I can and I assume emotions enough to create [what I believe to be] fantastic writing and performances. It is also an insult to the people I love that you assume that I don't care about them dying. And yet, I'm branded as the insensitive one? Again, I don't mean to offend anyone, I know you're not trying to insult Kitsune, but I want to express what this means to me.
Remembering people I love who I no longer have with me is something that moves me forward, and when push comes to shove I feel like they're still with me anyways, because they shaped who I am and it is thanks to them that I have what I have. And while I am ok with people being sad and blue for days after losing someone, after a while I DO want to be that hardass, because I would want them to live their lives, because I care for them and want them to be happy; and obviously I wouldn't be a hardass by saying "you're wrong, stop being a pussy" as people seem to be assuming, but by sharing my emotions with them and the ways in which I have dealt with it. Because to me, when I'm in pain, it means more to me when someone says "it sucks, but this is what you can do about it" than just "it sucks". And that's what I was trying to do … share my thoughts and emotions of the matter so that if someone benefited from my opinion I could have helped, and if someone disagreed at least they could question their approach a little and reach their own understanding of death. It annoys me that my intention got so woefully twisted, in the sense that I clearly need to be a better writer for such things not to happen again.
(Again, out of need ... NOT trying to say others are wrong in mourning, I am explaining MY perspective)Now here's hoping I'm don't get disdain and misunderstanding again, otherwise I'll just go ahead and give up and share my thoughts and ideas elsewhere.