I agree that nothing about what happened in Aohige's translation doesn't make sense contextually. and I feel Aohige is upset because Brennen is claiming his interpretation is correct when nobody who could understand the actual language it was spoken in would even think it didn't make sense. Oda drawing attention to Luffy's wounds doesn't need to have anything to do with those specific lines, but seems more like a way of showing that Luffy still has a ways to go and isn't invincible. I also feel the problem might just be in the sense of the translation confusing Brennen. As in, a certain word in the English version like toughness might refer to a more limited spectrum of ideas with the Japanese word used than the english, though I wouldn't know not knowing the actual language myself
Chapter 645: "Death Is Also Revenge"
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Re-reading a couple of chapters in this arc, this arc is seriously underrated. It's definitely in my top ten arcs of One Piece, once this arc is over I hope everyone re-reads in one go, it's quite different from other arcs and that's what makes it so good.
Anyway, from the way I see things, my prediction for the next couple of chapters (I don't think I've ever gotten one thing right here).
SH's curbstomp their opponents.
Luffy will stop Shirahoshi from calling the Sea Kings.
In order to destroy Noah, all the SH's will take it down like they did with Oz in TB. Monster Chopper, Giant Stomp, anything Zoro does, Wadatsumi ++ others ++ Luffy's Elephant Gatling? It would make an awesome double spread.
Hody will be saved by Sanji's blood, and the transfusion will be done by Aladdin.
We will find out very little about Noah or Joy Boy, just that a prophecy exists. Maybe a few dots will be connected, but no major revelations.
A reveal about how Otohime got the signatures during she was away for that one week. -
Cause there's only one more day left for this thread.I think MS made a mistake.
When the Fishman dude is having a flashback about Whitebeard,the first bubble in the flashback,it seems like he's talking about Whitebeard and Neptune,but the CNet translations makes it out that Whitebeard is doing the talking…
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@Baou:
Cause there's only one more day left for this thread.I think MS made a mistake.
When the Fishman dude is having a flashback about Whitebeard,the first bubble in the flashback,it seems like he's talking about Whitebeard and Neptune,but the CNet translations makes it out that Whitebeard is doing the talking…
I guess you're right. Aohige's translation on first page also suggests the same as CNet's
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[hide]@jprdiru:
Since your argument has a point and, yes, no one has really proved you wrong in your terms, and I think I get what you mean and what's causing the misunderstanding with Aohige, I feel like I gotta say something although I have never posted before. If I am not mistaken, your point is "why the hell did Oda made Luffy comment on Hody's toughness right after making him mention Luffy's wound?"
I think Aohige made it very clear several times that nobody in the Japanese boards is even discussing what Luffy said, the way I understood what he said everybody there just understands that Luffy was commenting to himself about Hodi's toughness.
I agree that nothing about what happened in Aohige's translation doesn't make sense contextually. I feel Aohige is upset because Brennen is claiming his interpretation is correct when nobody who could understand the actual language it was spoken in would even think it didn't make sense.
[/hide]@brennen.exe:
I don't think Luffy is ignoring Hody at all. It was initially the artwork that led me to disagree with (Aohige's) comment that "context" suggested Luffy was "ignoring" Hody. [For reasons provided, I believe] the context would suggest that Luffy is responding to Hody, even if the comment is made to himself. I would say Luffy is agreeing with Hody, that yes, Hody is a tough (defensive and offensive) bastard.
I feel bad about stretching this out, but I feel obligated to respond and point out where you are all… misunderstanding. People seem to believe I think Luffy was talking about himself. I don't. Luffy 'responding' doesn't mean a conversation is going on, it merely means Luffy acknowledged what was said, and reacted accordingly. CNET's translation follows this. My 'interpretation' is that Luffy is commenting to himself that it's true, Hody is strong, implying that Hody's 'fang' did have an affect. To paraphrase my stance:
Hody: Don't act like my fangs didn't hurt you! They're strong as hell and not just for show!
Luffy: I have to admit he's right. His teeth tore my shoulder up. He is tough… stronger than 100 million for sure!Hope it helps, but if not, I don't mind going back to my good old "reading you all from the dark side of the forum" rol for all eternity xD.
Comments from anyone and everyone are always welcome, so feel free to stick around and chat when and where.
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[hide]Something about this statement has been bothering me. Has it really been discussed on Japanese boards?
No, my point is, it has NEVER been discussed, or even brought up.
No one questioned the validity of Luffy talking about Hody, whether it's disjointed from the context, nothing.THERE IS NO PROBLEM AT ALL with the context or continuity as far as we are concerned, and there's nothing to discuss or even ENTER THE MIND in the first place.
That's why you being adamant about it is so extremely silly.
Hody: Don't act like my fangs didn't hurt you! They're strong as hell and not just for show!
Luffy: I have to admit he's right. His teeth tore my shoulder up. He is tough… stronger than 100 million for sure!This is also utterly incorrect.
Luffy used the ENGLISH word "tough" ness.
In Japanese, the ONLY time you use the ENGLISH word "tough", you are talking about endurance.
We do NOT use the English word "tough" the way the original English word is used, as a generic strength measure.
We use it ONLY for endurance. ONLY.Just like we use the English word "bitch" incorrectly, with definition of "slut" instead.
It's used wrong, but that's how it's used in Japanese.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@gotta<3OP:
Now I wonder if it would be that hard for Aohige to explain it like that instead of entering rage mode.
Thanks about the info.Oh FFS.
I explained it myself, and it went completely ignored. Before I got totally fed up with you all, I made explanation that ending consonants makes it all obvious why. But after arguing in circles, I'm FED UP and don't feel like repeating myself again.
So don't give me this bullshit.
Don't give me this "see you just had to explain it" bullshit when I have. And you ignored it all.Fuck this, I'm out of here.
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Shirahoshi talking about Luffy's wound being open may just be showing her personality, always worrying too much, always the fragile girl, it may be the kind of impression Oda wants us to have about her, so he had to put her there commenting about Luffy's blood loss because it wouldn't make sense for her to see it and not worry about it, and not have that reaction… Or as some people said it may be foreshadowing some future development, such as Luffy needing a blood transfusion and receiving it from a fishman, though I think it would be more interesting if he just gets weaker thanks to the blood loss, to the point where he becomes unable to finish the job of saving FI, leaving the rest of the job in the hands of Shirahoshi and her ability to talk to Seakings.
Fixed. And yeah, i agree that her power will play a role in this arc. Seems like a waste otherwise. I was hoping that the sea-kings would stop noah, but seeing that sanji and jimbei are almost on their way to using Umizou (or w/e his name is) I am not sure anymore. I guess we'll probably be closer to knowing that next chapter.
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No, my point is, it has NEVER been discussed, or even brought up. No one questioned the validity of Luffy talking about Hody, whether it's disjointed from the context, nothing.
That's what I figured. The point I was making is, how can you claim to speak for everyone when you've spoken to noone? But that's just an issue I have with your approach… it has no bearing on our conversation.
THERE IS NO PROBLEM AT ALL with the context or continuity as far as we are concerned, there's nothing to discuss or even ENTER THE MIND in the first place. That's why you being adamant about it is so extremely silly.
The only one being adamant and silly here is you, Aohige. You blew up at me when all I was doing was explaining why people had trouble with it in English. When I clarified what I meant by context, and pointed out why I simply disagreed with your take, you exploded further. I was willing to drop the conversation, but you continued to show you didn't understand the purpose of my posts. Perhaps you do now. In any case, I don't particularly care for your method of speaking for all of Japan and throwing that in my face just because I disagree with you about something. Context isn't about dialog alone, or Japanese, or English… if you understand the context, you can argue it without screaming "IM A JAPANESE" at me.
This is also utterly incorrect. Luffy used the ENGLISH word "tough" ness. In Japanese, the ONLY time you use the ENGLISH word "tough", you are talking about endurance. We do NOT use the English word "tough" the way the original English word is used, as a generic strength measure. We use it ONLY for endurance. ONLY.
I'd say this is the first real reply to my argument. If it is true that Japanese people would NEVER EVER use the English word "tough" (タフ) to express strength, power, or threat, and only use it to refer to defense, then I am at a complete loss. Of course I have to trust you on the semantics of the English word "tough" in a Japanese setting, but if that is the case, then I guess I just personally think Oda handled that portion of the chapter a little strange. Case closed.
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Fixed. And yeah, i agree that her power will play a role in this arc. Seems like a waste otherwise. I was hoping that the sea-kings would stop noah, but seeing that sanji and jimbei are almost on their way to using Umizou (or w/e his name is) I am not sure anymore. I guess we'll probably be closer to knowing that next chapter.
Haha, thanks, I don't even know why I was with Otohime's name stuck in my head… :)
Indeed, there still are Sanji and Jimbe to account for, their recent actions certainly are putting some doubt in my theory, lets wait and see, hopefully we will have some spoilers soon.
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Indeed, there still are Sanji and Jimbe to account for, their recent actions certainly are putting some doubt in my theory, lets wait and see, hopefully we will have some spoilers soon.
Thinking about it, with the whole "advanced navigation" thing playing a semi-important role at the start of the arc, I'm going to laugh if Shirahoshi uses a Sea King to "advanced navigate" the island (or Noah) somewhere else.
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Wonder if Luffy will deactivate elephant gun and switch to a new attack,or just continue to elephant Gatling the crap outa Noah…
And even if FI bubble pops,it's all good,cause Sunny is coated and the coating is inflated,so they can hop into their trusty ship after they epickly destroy the officers.
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if that is the case, then I guess I just personally think Oda handled that portion of the chapter a little strange. Case closed.
Just thought I throw something in here. @brennen.exe:
Furthermore, every time Luffy has commented on Hody's defensive durability, it has always been immediately after Hody survived an attack and was always accompanied by a surprised (!!) bubble. This time Luffy's comment came pages after Hody gets up, pages after Luffy starts to attack again, and immediately after a comment from Hody.
Luffy's comment may have come pages after Hodi got up and said something but in the story all that happened in a very small time frame, and before Hodi spoke the way he did Luffy couldn't have known how badly Hodi was hurt. Furthermore Luffy made this comment after using an attack that, I think we can presume, is much much stronger than any attack he had used on Hodi previously so it makes sense for Luffy to say something to the effect of, Damn that assholes tough.
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@Baou:
Wonder if Luffy will deactivate elephant gun and switch to a new attack,or just continue to elephant Gatling the crap outa Noah…
And even if FI bubble pops,it's all good,cause Sunny is coated and the coating is inflated,so they can hop into their trusty ship after they epickly destroy the officers.
Not good, remember that they said if the bubbles around the island pops, the pressure wave with destroy everything. If a pressure wave is that strong, then its strong enought to kill people inside. Luffy said they citizens of FI are is friends, and the Strawhats never abandons friends. Remember that some citizens are not running away http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c645/7.html and the soldiers are still there as well. Between Jinbe and Luffy, I doubt tehy would abandon the former human slaves either. There will be too many people to get on the Sunny.
The people that are not running away… they are putting their faith into Luffy, just like Lola did on Thriller Bark in the final fight.
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in the story all that happened in a very small time frame
Yeah I really liked the way Oda did the paneling and whatnot in that scene. It really helped make the scene feel fast paced and added to the fight and Luffy's Elephant Gatling which is an attack (well Gigant Gatling at least) I've been wanting to see since Gear 3 was introduced. I thought for sure we'd see it against Oars but this was well worth the wait. Really a devastating attack. Hopefully Toei will find it in their wallets to make it decently animated.
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@bren
I don't even see why you're dignifying him with a response. He's acting like an angry child. It was clear that you weren't arguing about the language, and his obnoxious responses were completely disproportionate. It's nice that you go to lengths to be civil, though. -
The only one being adamant and silly here is you, Aohige. You blew up at me when all I was doing was explaining why people had trouble with it in English. When I clarified what I meant by context, and pointed out why I simply disagreed with your take, you exploded further. I was willing to drop the conversation, but you continued to show you didn't understand the purpose of my posts. Perhaps you do now. In any case, I don't particularly care for your method of speaking for all of Japan and throwing that in my face just because I disagree with you about something. Context isn't about dialog alone, or Japanese, or English… if you understand the context, you can argue it without screaming "IM A JAPANESE" at me.
It has NOTHING to to do with me being Japanese, it has everything to do with Japanese readership having no problem with the context.
I'm speaking for the entire population simply because…. god, I can't even explain this anymore. The context and its purpose is insanely obvious to the point I didn't even THINK question it myself until you brought it up. It's like, you read a comic book with blue sky. No one discuss it since it doesn't mean anything to them, it's not even a questionable scene. Then one person says "on my print it's green! look at it!" Then when that is refuted by the fact no one has been discussing it being green, since it's not in anyone else's mind, you retaliate with "well no one has brought it up, so you can't say I'm wrong!".
You're seeking things in shadows where there is nothing. If it's something that normally aren't even acknowledged, how am I going to prove its existence?"Context isn't about dialog alone, or Japanese, or English... "
This quote proves you haven't even understood or listened to what I said.
I'm not talking about dialog alone. I'm talking about the WHOLE SCENE.
What transpired in that scene, be it artwork, dialog, plot, panels, sfx.... IS NOT IN QUESTION AT ALL.
The whole scene makes perfectly fine sense to go along with the dialog. To us.
I'm telling you, the ONLY reason why you question that scene is because you read the mistranslation.
You even admit to this when I explain why "toughness" means in grammatical sense in Japanese. YOU LOST THE CASE ALREADY.Fine. Do this.
Go ask any other Japanese about this. Do it. Go do it.
I've been saying this since the start. If my "coming from a Japanese POV" isn't enough to satisfy you, go out there and actively seek out other native speakers and ask this yourself. I've said this days ago, and you and anyone else have not even tried to do so. The fault lies in your end, I have nothing else to use as ammo if credibility (which I THOUGHT I have built up, obviously gravely mistaken) isn't one of them, and you REFUSE to do anything to research it yourself.
If you are not going to do this, then stop arguing. You have no right to argue if you refuse to do this research yourself. None.Fine, brennen, you win. You obviously are more qualified about their POV than I ever am.
Why don't you do the work from now on, and I'll go retire.ciao.
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I've been here a couple years and in those years I know a couple iron clad rules that have been pounded into me, one of them is aohgie translations are the best and don't fuck with them, therefore if Aohgie tells you something says something and that's not what you think, your wrong, doesn't matter what position you have
I personally like breenen cause he made my sig and is an avid jinbei as next nakama fan, but this is just getting silly, if aohgie's 100% set that your wrong on a translation issue, then your probably wrong, let's end the silly discussions, it'll only be a few hours till spoilers come out anyways
@Robo:@bren
I don't even see why you're dignifying him with a response. He's acting like an angry child. It was clear that you weren't arguing about the language, and his obnoxious responses were completely disproportionate. It's nice that you go to lengths to be civil, though.The reason he's "dignifying him with a response" is because if your talking about what he's done and means for Ap forums he's fucking gandhi, you clearly don't log on much, this the only time I've ever seen him like this and that's cause you guys aren't listening to logic, you can only tell someone something so many times before you yell at them, basically you don't know what the fuck your talking about so log on more or quit acting like you know shit
we need aohgie cause he's the best so shut your trap
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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I also thought that Luffy's line wasn't exactly Oda's finest hour but I would have never guessed that it would cause this kind of discussion. It's painful to read. And extremely silly as well.
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Aohige nooooooooooooooo!!!
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...
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Shameful…
Hopefully, a new chapter will blow this quarrel all behind.
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it cant be! 16 it cant be real!
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Although in another light, it's like Kong and Garp arguing, and then Garp leaves.
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all this discussion to see who is wrong and who are not, its just sad to see the best spoilers provider getting upset for somebody else who are coplaining for a small part on the chapter….
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Ok guys how the hell did this happen??? Geez…
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I've been here a couple years and in those years I know a couple iron clad rules that have been pounded into me, one of them is aohgie translations are the best and don't fuck with them, therefore if Aohgie tells you something says something and that's not what you think, your wrong, doesn't matter what position you have
I personally like breenen cause he made my sig and is an avid jinbei as next nakama fan, but this is just getting silly, if aohgie's 100% set that your wrong on a translation issue, then your probably wrong, let's end the silly discussions, it'll only be a few hours till spoilers come out anyways
The reason he's "dignifying him with a response" is because if your talking about what he's done and means for Ap forums he's fucking gandhi, you clearly don't log on much, this the only time I've ever seen him like this and that's cause you guys aren't listening to logic, you can only tell someone something so many times before you yell at them, basically you don't know what the fuck your talking about so log on more or quit acting like you know shit
we need aohgie cause he's the best so shut your trap
Aohige may be great and all, and beloved on the forums. However, that doesn't give him any reason to act the way he has. I don't think he has any reason at all to act like that. Obviously, the confusion about the scene annoyed him; but he blew it WAY out of proportion. Nobody was really questioning authority, brennen was only trying to politely explain his reasoning and why there was any confusion in the first place. I hardly think he was arguing against aohige, and just trying to discuss the misunderstandings. Aohige, on the other hand, took every one of brennen's posts as if they were unimaginable thoughts of a some ignorant scumbag. Aohige could have handled the situation much better, even if brennen's thoughts seemed illogical. And I don't think any of the reasoning behind either poster on this context situation is more logical than the other, but aohige's rants and responses were certainly irrational. Even when brennen ultimately settles the issue in his last post by admitting he trusts aohige's final explanation and thinks oda didn't handle the scene well, aohige comes back with a crazy post about brennen being ridiculous and letting him win.
Back to your observations about his unusual behavior. As a lurker, I've also never noticed Aohige act like this. He is usually smart and rational. So maybe he's either gone crazy? Or got way too butthurt over a small misunderstanding? Or maybe he's sick of translating everything and being the guy everybody relies upon here…so he's going down in flames in order to get away?
At least this extremely silly argument/discussion/joke? was somewhat entertaining for the break, and we can get back to the story soon.
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Okay from half-reading the argument what i got was this:
Is Luffy talkin about HIS or HODY'S thoughness??? and…
He said an over 100 million thoughness (referring to BOUNTIES, which I highly doubt since Luffy NEVER judges an enemy or even himself by his/her bounty) or 100 million tougher (as in multiple times)...Anyway I couldn't care less and you guys arguing over it made me LOL.
Sorry! -
Aohige, please come back. :cwy:
Aohige!! -
I would have never guessed that it would cause this kind of discussion. It's painful to read. And extremely silly as well.
Haha, me neither. But anyway, c'mon everyone, don't let the discussion die or bring up a new and relevant topic.
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As a lurker, I've also never noticed Aohige act like this. He is usually smart and rational. So maybe he's either gone crazy? Or got way too butthurt over a small misunderstanding? Or maybe he's sick of translating everything and being the guy everybody relies upon here…so he's going down in flames in order to get away?
Or, more likely, dude's just had a bad day. It happens to the best of us.
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MasterKing, that is the creepiest avatar and sig combo I have ever seen…
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Haha, me neither. But anyway, c'mon everyone, don't let the discussion die or bring up a new and relevant topic.
Spoilers are out, this discussion is over…
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The reason he's "dignifying him with a response" is because if your talking about what he's done and means for Ap forums he's fucking gandhi, you clearly don't log on much, this the only time I've ever seen him like this and that's cause you guys aren't listening to logic, you can only tell someone something so many times before you yell at them, basically you don't know what the fuck your talking about so log on more or quit acting like you know shit
we need aohgie cause he's the best so shut your trap
What the hell are you talking about "you guys"? Don't presume to tell me what position I have in an argument I wasn't a part of. I don't care who has done what, everyone is capable of being wrong. Who gives a shit how many times I've logged in? I can read, and I've read the thread. He was wrong. I'm not angry at him, and this hasn't affected my life in any way. Why don't you take a deep breath, stop your temper tantrum, and pour yourself another bowl of Cheerios? Apparently I pissed in yours.
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My girlfriend's Japanese, and a One Piece nut, and so am I, and I'm pretty good at the language too. Co-sign Aohige from both of us on the Luffy line.
As to him blowing his top, p'raps I'd be irritated too if I had to put up with that rubbish every week. Does he? I'm not sure, I'm newish here. If he does, then yep, I get it. And, sorry, but from non-Japanese speakers it feels a little bit like blind men telling you that that colour doesn't suit you.
All that being said… ain't nothing ever to be gained in yelling at the Internets.
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WTF is this s.hit.
What was so hard to understand from that panel brennen?
Aohige who is japanese explained you something from a japanese manga but you still think that you re right.
And who the fu.ck are you to think that your opinion is so important?
Now let see how you do something important in aohige s place if you re so smart.
Translate the fu.cking spoilers brennen. -
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I may have said I hated you before, bruce.
But for a split second there, I think … I think I was in ...
SHUT UP AND TrANSLATe THA SPOILERS, BRUCE, DO IT
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MasterKing, that is the creepiest avatar and sig combo I have ever seen…
You're the third person to say that.
I really don't see what's so disturbing about it. :ninja:And as for Aohige, he'll be back.
He loves us too much to abandon us like this. -
The whole discussion…
The comment of luffy doesnt make sense to me by Hige way... Well it does but not the way its said... comparing to the supernovas?
He didnt really fight any supernova, or didnt really have any confrontation to have any basis for that kind of comment.It's weird to see he compares them to an strenght he hasnt really tested.
I'm sure Hige knows better saying luffy is talking about Hody, but the whole way he is expressing it... it's just weird.
On the other hand, while maybe wrong it still fits the translation from manga stream. Saying that just 1 bite isnt enough to really do much to him.
I guess it does make more sense saying that hody didnt really did hurt him with the bite.
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The whole discussion…
The comment of luffy doesnt make sense to me by Hige way... Well it does but not the way its said... comparing to the supernovas?
He didnt really fight any supernova, or didnt really have any confrontation to have any basis for that kind of comment.It's weird to see he compares them to an strenght he hasnt really tested.
I'm sure Hige knows better saying luffy is talking about Hody, but the whole way he is expressing it... it's just weird.
On the other hand, while maybe wrong it still fits the translation from manga stream. Saying that just 1 bite isnt enough to really do much to him.
I guess it does make more sense saying that hody didnt really did hurt him with the bite.
But the guy was clearly bleeding and in pain.
I agree with Bazoo, it can be very frustrating when you're trying to help and people doubt you. I got that one time when I briefly translated an SBS and the guy after me said "Hey, when is Aohige coming to translate it for us?". Makes you feel you did that for nothing. I really thought Brennen was just trolling, but I think I get the misunderstanding now. However…
WTF is this s.hit.
What was so hard to understand from that panel brennen?
Aohige who is japanese explained you something from a japanese manga but you still think that you re right.
And who the fu.ck are you to think that your opinion is so important?
Now let see how you do something important in aohige s place if you re so smart.
Translate the fu.cking spoilers brennen.Where the h.ell did THIS come from?
And please translate the latest chapter Brennen, I wanna read it. :ninja:
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And please translate the latest chapter Brennen, I wanna read it. :ninja:
Chapter's not out yet, mate. But you can head over to the spoiler thread if you want the translated summary without pictures:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=34321&page=7 -
@CCC:
Chapter's not out yet, mate. But you can head over to the spoiler thread if you want the translated summary without pictures:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=34321&page=7Thanks, but I was just joking based on what Roronoa Hanzo said.
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And who the fu.ck are you to think that your opinion is so important?Now let see how you do something important in aohige s place if you re so smart.
Translate the fu'cking spoilers Brennen.
Gangsta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This thread must win an award in december Arlong Park .
