Storytelling in One Piece

[Alpha Male]

Lol Fuck that noise dude. There’s no way I’m gonna keep addressing your army of fucking quotes when I’ve already addressed most of them previously and the rest is just asinine. You’re clearly a jackass that chooses pettiness over reason and tries to disguise ineptitude with numbers. Worst of all, you’re late to the party but you still try to act like it just started. But I guess when your online rep is more important than things like common sense or the ability to comprehend sentences, you can’t really expect much more. If your computer ever crashes or all 50 of your accounts get banned, you'd make a great circus act. Looking forward to the imminent nerd rage.

@loledinmypants:

Ok, so giant jack, a natural plant, needs an explanation, but we don't need to know why/how night never falls on EL, what the giant shadow after TB was, we don't need a grand backstory for W7's giant fountain other than someone apparently felt like building one, why everything on LRLL is tall/long, how the Drum Mountains formed etc.? Alright, we'll see how much you like the OP that took 2000 chapters to get this far because every last inch of the environment was explained.

The fact is, the beanstalk wasn’t just any old part of the environment. It was one of, if not the most important part in the setting. It keeps the island from falling back to the Blue Sea, it knocked the bell out of Shandora and into the sky, it served as the bridge to God’s shrine, and it served as the only method for Luffy to reach Enel. Enel tried everything he could just to destroy it and you don’t even question why it’s there? Unlike everything else you mentioned, there’s nothing that suggests the beanstalk is part of Skypiea’s natural environment and it’s not like there’s a ton of them growing everywhere up there. And the giant fountain on Water 7 was obviously built to give residents a convenient mode of transportation. No explanation required.

[loledinmypants]

The Drum Mountains housed the castle on top of them, served as an obstacle for Luffy to take Nami to a doctor, kept Kureha and Chopper isolated from the other Drum Island residents… Point is I can come up with asinine reasons why any given part of an island's environment is important, but does that mean they need explanation? Giant Jack being there to impale the island and keep it from falling from the sky is the evidence suggesting it was just naturally there. You used it as a point but totally ignore that it shows Giant Jack's been there for 400+ years. Who cares at this point if someone brought it there or it's truly native. 400+ years in an ecosystem all but makes it as good as native.

[SGR]

Wait… I'm missing something here.

I just reread Little Garden arc, and in the flashback, it shows the two giants hunted 2 COLOSSAL MONSTERS in the flashback island, the girls asks them which one is bigger, and then they fight from there.

You guys are saying they went to another island for the duel, but that doesn't seem to make much sense for me, why would they take the monsters with them to another island, and why would there exist such colossal monsters in a non pre-historic village when we never saw something close to that before.

[Cyan D. Funk]

Arrogant newbie thinks he can stand up to Zephos, more at 11.

[WarshipArc]

:sad: But Funk!
Didn't you read his post?
Alpha Male is so totally through with Zephos!

[Monkey King]

@Alpha:

Lol Fuck that noise dude. There’s no way I’m gonna keep addressing your army of fucking quotes when I’ve already addressed most of them previously and the rest is just asinine.

Well of course not, what you'll do is what you did before and address my arguments in responses to other people. And if they're sharp enough like Urogue was, they'll notice and get really mad at you.

You’re clearly a jackass that chooses pettiness over reason and tries to disguise ineptitude with numbers.

What numbers? Numbers of quotes? There was like five there lol. That's not even a fraction of a real genuine quote war.
And I choose pettiness AND reason. So it's like….I'm an asshole who is ALSO making a point. Get it now?

Worst of all, you’re late to the party but you still try to act like it just started.

ahaha, what are you even talking about here.

If your computer ever crashes or all 50 of your accounts get banned, you'd make a great circus act. Looking forward to the imminent nerd rage.

Hey remember that post you made last time where you were like "ARARAGARAGARAGARAGRAGARGHAMONKEYKINGARARARAR, but at least I don't really care."?

I like this one better. "ARAGARGARAGRGARGARGARARGARGAMONKEYKINGARAGARGARA, oh and I can't wait for the nerd rage."

I wonder how you'll top this one.

The fact is, the beanstalk wasn’t just any old part of the environment. It was one of, if not the most important part in the setting.

Not really. It was kind of just a big beanstalk. It was really unimportant aside from the luck of the island landing on it.

It keeps the island from falling back to the Blue Sea,

No, it didn't. Why the hell would you even come to this conclusion.

it knocked the bell out of Shandora and into the sky,

That was the only important thing it did, but it wasn't the kind of important where the beanstalk itself mattered so much as it's inadvertent meaningless presence.

it served as the bridge to God’s shrine,

They built the shrine up there, not the other way around. And they probably built it up there because of the bell being nearby. Or just plain old "height=power".

and it served as the only method for Luffy to reach Enel.

Only because Ener was up near the Bell in the first place. It all comes back to the bell's location. Which was on some solid cloud, not even on the stalk.

Enel tried everything he could just to destroy it and you don’t even question why it’s there?

What are you talking about? Ener just zapped it once when he saw Luffy coming up, and only at a certain part. And that one zap cut off that part.

Unlike everything else you mentioned, there’s nothing that suggests the beanstalk is part of Skypiea’s natural environment and it’s not like there’s a ton of them growing everywhere up there.

It just seemed like a vague detail/JackGiant reference.

And the giant fountain on Water 7 was obviously built to give residents a convenient mode of transportation. No explanation required.

No, what I'm saying about the fountain, is who cares about the fountain. You keep mentioning it like it's some amazing Mount Rushmore of One Piece sightseeing when who gives a shit.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@SGR:

Wait… I'm missing something here.

I just reread Little Garden arc, and in the flashback, it shows the two giants hunted 2 COLOSSAL MONSTERS in the flashback island, the girls asks them which one is bigger, and then they fight from there.

You guys are saying they went to another island for the duel, but that doesn't seem to make much sense for me, why would they take the monsters with them to another island, and why would there exist such colossal monsters in a non pre-historic village when we never saw something close to that before.

God, this is the stupidest argument ever. Think even two seconds about your points and they collapse.

1. It's obviously a fucking different island, stop even thinking about this one. It's a fact. A small little village island didn't transform into a prehistoric holdover.

2. The colossal monsters were also far too fucking big and even completely unnatural looking for Little Garden, they're practically the size of half the island. How the fuck would they have naturally come from LG? They're probably some giant Sea Kings the Giants caught or something, and they only happened to have landed on that island after the hunt or whatever. God, why is this so hard to comprehend. Fill in the obvious blanks yourself.

3. Duels are usually given a date, time, and place, and considering they were dueling over the catches it would make sense to drag them along with them.

4. Read point one over and over again before you even think about continuing this discussion.

[SGR]

Thanks.
I wasn't really discussing though, I get it now.

[Monkey King]

For anyone else still overthinking this.

1. Brogy and Dorry catch two sea kings.
2. They land on some island after the hunt, a local girl starts the argument with her question.
3. They start arguing over it and declare a duel.
4. They decide to have the duel on Little Garden, they bring along the trophy catches.

[maxterdexter]

Something that I loved on One Piece.

When we finaly get the explanation of haki, we already knew (or had a very solid idea) of what it is, and what could it do.

[brennen.exe]

@Monkey:

Not really. It was kind of just a big beanstalk. It was really unimportant aside from the luck of the island landing on it. […] That was the only important thing it did, but it wasn't the kind of important where the beanstalk itself mattered so much as it's inadvertent meaningless presence.

I don't really care to support Alpha's argument, but I don't really agree with everyone arguing against him. I mean this thread is about storytelling, and Alpha didn't present the beanstalk as some big gaping plot hole, just something that didn't have an explanation. It was an important part of the setting, and at the very least he made a good point by noting Gun Fall's quote that the sky islands cannot give birth to plants, and that greenery and soil are not native to them. So it had to come from somewhere not in the sky islands… it is unnaturally huge and unique even outside of the sky islands… and even you have to admit it served at least two purposes... so? "It was just kinda there" doesn't exactly write away the fact that it shouldn't be there in the first place. It's not that important, but this thread relies heavily on arguing trivial details about the story.

@Monkey:

It was really unimportant aside from the luck of the island landing on it. […] That was the only important thing it did.

I would have to agree that the beanstalk did at least stop or slow down Cyandora's decent back to the blue sea, allowing it to remain up there in the first place. That's how it was depicted at least. So without it being there the island might have just fallen back down after it broke through the clouds, and the bell would certainly not have been knocked off the way it was.

@Monkey:

What are you talking about? Ener just zapped it once when he saw Luffy coming up, and only at a certain part. And that one zap cut off that part.

He's probably misremembering the chapter titled "The Beanstalk". Nami sends down a leaf asking everyone below to make the beanstalk fall to the west. It practically had two chapters dedicated to it, and took Zoro, lol Usopp, Wiper's Reject, and Norla to make it finally just tip over. It was at least more than "just a vague detail/reference". Am I wrong?

[mcdreamy]

@brennen.exe:

He's probably misremembering the chapter titled "The Beanstalk". Nami sends down a leaf asking everyone below to make the beanstalk fall to the west. It practically had two chapters dedicated to it, and took Zoro, lol Usopp, Wiper's Reject, and Norla to make it finally just tip over. It was at least more than "just a vague detail/reference". Am I wrong?

Naw, when Luffy was going up the beanstalk the first time, Eneru tried to stop him by attacking the beanstalk http://www.mangareader.net/103-2401-5/one-piece/chapter-294.html

[brennen.exe]

I know Enel did that; I was saying I think he was confusing the two scenes, misremembering that it was the crew that tried to cut it down and had such difficulty.

[Urouge]

@brennen.exe:

He's probably misremembering the chapter titled "The Beanstalk". Nami sends down a leaf asking everyone below to make the beanstalk fall to the west. It practically had two chapters dedicated to it, and took Zoro, lol Usopp, Wiper's Reject, and Norla to make it finally just tip over. It was at least more than "just a vague detail/reference". Am I wrong?

It was after that that Enel attacked the base of the beanstalk as it was falling to try to bring it down. That was my guess to what he was talking about, but I don't really know.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@brennen.exe:

.
I would have to agree that the beanstalk did at least stop or slow down Cyandora's decent back to the blue sea, allowing it to remain up there in the first place. That's how it was depicted at least. So without it being there the island might have just fallen back down after it broke through the clouds, and the bell would certainly not have been knocked off the way it was.

I dont think that the Upper Yard would have fallen back to the blue sea without the beanstalk. We saw that the island clouds are able to hold some weight(even whole ships they put on some of those clouds to punish intruders) and also some soil must have been brought up there before, or else the Skypians couldnt have lived there.(only with fishing maybe)
But the Skypians must have already known how much worth that new soil is for them or else they wouldn`t have fighted for it instantly.
So the beanstalk was important that the whole Upper Yard was still in one piece, (because it slowed down the dropping island,but in the end those island clouds hold that whole Upper Yard at his place) but a lot of the soil would have landed there anyways.

[brennen.exe]

@Don:

I don't think that the Upper Yard would have fallen back to the blue sea without the beanstalk.
We saw that the island clouds are able to hold some weight (even whole ships they put on some of those clouds to punish intruders).

It was surrounded by sea cloud. An entire island floating in sea cloud. The bell landed on island cloud. I could suspend disbelief that boats and such float on the sea cloud, but considering the island came up through the sea cloud, it should just fall right back through it. But this is a fictional manga, so arguing something like that is so petty and retarded I honestly wanted to stay clear of it. If I were Oda though, I'd say the beanstalk held it up just enough to keep it from falling, while the sea cloud kept it steady and in place.

@Don:

…and also some soil must have been brought up there before, or else the Skypians couldn't have lived there. (Only with fishing maybe)

Why?

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@brennen.exe:

It was surrounded by sea cloud. An entire island floating in sea cloud. The bell landed on island cloud. I could suspend disbelief that boats and such float on the sea cloud, but considering the island came up through the sea cloud, it should just fall right back through it. But this is a fictional manga, so arguing something like that is so petty and retarded I honestly wanted to stay clear of it. If I were Oda though, I'd say the beanstalk held it up just enough to keep it from falling, while the sea cloud kept it steady and in place.

Yeah, afterall the beanstalk is the main reason why the whole island was stuck there in the end.
But i just wanted to point out,that Skypia is everywhere covered with island clouds and so also the ruins are partly on some of these.(so not the whole Upper Yard would have fallen back , some parts of the Upper Yard sure would have landed on some of those island clouds everywhere)
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-266/page002.html
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-267/page011.html
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-268/page008.html
Also you have to keep in mind that Skypia and it`s surrounding is moving on a giant cloud..so Upper Yard may came trough sea clouds,but when it was again falling down, the giant cloud already moved again a bit,so that it was possible for the island to land on the beanstalk and so also on some of those island clouds…or else Upper Yard would have curshed against the roots of the beanstalk)

So its fair to assume that Upper Yard sure wouldnt be there without the beanstalk, but those island clouds are able to hold some soil and stone for themself pretty well.
The whole Upper Yard may not entirely lie on these clouds(here i agree with you argueing that is pointless and that wasnt what i wanted to point out), but i wouldnt be surprised that in the past much soil and stone that were shot in the sky with the knock up streams already landed somewhere around Skypia on these clouds, so that Skypians already knew those materials.

Thats why they honoured it like a godhead "Vearth", because they know it since a long time and thats why live is possible there, because it`s important to grow something up there.
Why else would they fight with all they have for that preciious soil, when they could live and survive up there pretty well without it.
Sure it could make life there just "easier", but from my point of view it was just possible to found there real citys and stuff, because of the soil which was brought there over hundreds of years.

[Urouge]

Giant Jack was important, but it was also ancient. Oda went beyond what he normally does to show us how things were shaped 400 years ago since it was a part of the story of the CHARACTERS, but Giant Jack was ancient even to them. Smaller chunks of "vearth" got shot up to Skypeia from time to time, which is presumably how they had the plant life they did on the cloud islands. Most likely a beanstalk seed got shot up, found some vearth either naturally or with guidance, and became what it was in the same crazy manner that everything up there grows really big.

It was just environment that had been there practically forever, so it doesn't really matter. Oda doesn't waste chapters just to show us how the Earth and its pieces were created.

[brennen.exe]

Yeah, it's an extremely minor detail that isn't worth complaining about; it's only worth mentioning because it was both important and unnatural. Oda pretty typically covers that type of stuff, even if only with a single passing comment or later via SBS (by choosing to answer the question), and this is one case where he didn't. No big deal, but this type of minor detail being answered is one of the many aspects of One Piece I love.

[themick]

Well they said sky cloud can nurture life but not give birth to it right? So does that mean a living plant had to be shot up there? Or just a seed and it will sprout and grow? I always assumed it was the latter.

[Hiroy]

While true sky islands could not grow plants, it's been referenced numerous times in the arc that Upper Yard wasn't the only piece of Vearth that was sent flying into the sky. One hint being Sypiea's early God/Kami being quick to take control over a seeming "large piece" of Vearth. Surely it must have been a rare occurrence for something that like to happen as clouds in the sky do not always stay in the same place(different kingdoms in the sky must see this as a "blessing" and a reason for warfare as well… it did save Skypeia from an era of depression). What's to say that there weren't other chucks floating in the sky in large or small pieces? Giant Jack could have simply grown from one of the smaller chucks that was shrouded from sight within a cloud. It was also pretty obvious that vegetation and even creatures have and abnormal growth rate in the sky.

That said, I don't find the idea of vegetation in the sky all that far fetched. They just can't grow on cloud. That's it.

[joekido the Second]

I'm glad that minor details were never explianed. Thanks Oda

[Mugiwara_no_Ice]

@Alpha:

So, cutting off the excessive internet-dude worship and getting back to the original topic of the thread, I think Oda’s storytelling has definitely improved. In the Skypeia arc, Luffy dissipated all the lightning in Enel’s giant thundercloud without even the gold on his arm melting (which is strange even within the boundaries of the story, considering lightning was used to place it on him), Luffy experienced little to no fatigue before/during/after the entire fight, Enel somehow had an exclusive power up form that no other logia has, and people were getting struck by millions of volts of lightning and turning out perfectly fine after just a few hours or so. In that sense, the series has become a lot more grounded. Oda’s gotten a lot better at defining the limitations of both the villains and protagonists.

There were things that went unexplained like the giant beanstalk (why was it there, why was it so big, why didn’t anyone see it on the Blue Sea, etc,), the reason why Calgara’s generation were living in huts outside of Shandora instead of in Shandora itself, or why there was a little girl all by herself on Little Garden (in the Giants’ flashback). Nowadays, huge elements of the story that can’t really be inferred usually don’t go without being addressed.

Oda also does a better job now with the settings too. In Skypeia we didn’t get to see much of Angel Island at all. And neither the ruins of Shandora nor any of the locations on Upper Yard were as unique or interesting as the locations Oda started creating at Water 7 and after (although Alabasta had a couple). Even the side characters (like Shakky, Iceberg, Disco, Lola, Caimie and Papag, Kokoro, etc.) have become more interesting and play bigger roles in the story than characters from way back like Pagaya and Conis, Dalton, or many of the characters who’ve recently been on the cover pages.

So let me rephrase what you're saying: You are saying that Oda improved his storytelling because:

a) The series has become more grounded and Oda’s gotten a lot better at defining the limitations of both the villains and protagonists.

b) Nowadays, huge elements of the story that can’t really be inferred usually don’t go without being addressed.

c) Oda also does a better job now with the settings too.

You base these claims on some ridiculous examples of how Oda handled things before (skypiea arc) , but without giving examples of how he handles them now. That's some weird thinking you're doing.

It's like me saying; The standard of life in America greatly improved since the 70's. example: People grew fucking sideburns!

Let alone that no one agrees with your petty grudges against one of the finest arcs in one piece.

[loledinmypants]

Oda has usually addressed odd environmental features, albeit sometimes this comes in an SBS or other outside-of-story source. That he didn't do so for the beanstalk is an anomaly that I couldn't care less about, because it was so ancient that I doubt anyone in the story could know how or why it's there. It'd be interesting trivia and a bit of added worldbuilding, but likely as relevant to the story as Nami and Robin's measurements… The whole reason I said anything against Alpha Male is because that seemed like such a petty claim.

[Georgette]

LOL! IF ODA READ THIS, HE WOULD LAUGH HIS ASS OFF! (and cry too)

[loledinmypants]

@Georgette:

LOL! IF ODA READ THIS, HE WOULD LAUGH HIS ASS OFF! (and cry too)

Constructive post there, bud. Thanks for the insight.

[Georgette]

I MEANT THIS THREAD!! Lol

[Hiroy]

So this is why lurkers lurk.

[loledinmypants]

Well, yes, this thread is getting derailed to an argument on a beanstalk, but typing a one line, nigh all caps post doesn't help. And at least the beanstalk discussion was on topic, if not exactly thrilling or anything.

[Pix]

Implying that a series where people growing 10ft tall, having super strength and getting magic powers from fruits is more normal than a giant beanstalk

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

[Siauhiji]

How about plothole?
Sorry I jump in this thread because thread of One Piece Plothole has been closed.

I have the cases suspected as the plot holes :

1. Spiraling blade used by mr. 1 to attack Zoro, able to make Zoro pushed into a big pillar, strangely, the pillar behind zoro also be cut off by that attack. while Zoro himself did not cut off XD
(Chapter 195).
I doubt, this is plot hole or not. because I don't understand why Oda make this scene. Manga Logic maybe?

2. Heat of Enel lightning that could melt the gold, but completely unable to melt Luffy's rubber body. Whereas Oda Showing in Enel Lightning also containing of heat. For example, all human in skypiea who hit by enel lightning will be scorched (burn).
I think this is a plot hole If Oda make Luffy can resist the lightning following the heat of lightning, by the demands of the Luffy victory stories.
If Oda retaining the principle of the lightning have a heat by direct hit, then the concept about "rubber is natural enemy for lightning" will fail. And the story couldn't be done.
Except, if Oda showing the scene the natural rubber also not burned hit by the lightning. it mean, Oda create his own logic that all the rubber can resist the lightning following the heat.
Different with manga Logic like this : Zoro and the others couldn't killed by enel Lightning with millions voltage.

3. Sometimes, Oda not consistent about the size and distance. For examples, The size of Seaking about 5000 meters by OP Blue : Grand data file, While we know the distance from sea level to the mermaid island is 10,000 meters and there are the trench at a depth of 7000 meters. Supposedly, with 2 seakings able to reach the surface, but in describing, some seaking not look like measuring 5000 meters.
And, how the seakings suddenly coming into Fishman Island by the Shirahoshi power. I think, with the ultimate size of seakings, they will difficult to move in Fishman Island. So, I think this case can be called a plot hole.

lets give your opinion :)

note : If you found the topic about plothole, please give me the relevan link, thank you..

[desa]

I would call that nitpicking rather than plot holes.

[chapapa]

For me, indeed Oda showed some inconsistencies there. He left that 'little' things unexplained, though its not a big deal.
There is also possibility that someday he would confirm that in SBS too, until the day lets just keep them the way they were.

[Doffy. D Evil]

@Siauhiji:

How about plothole?
Sorry I jump in this thread because thread of One Piece Plothole has been closed.

I have the cases suspected as the plot holes :

1. Spiraling blade used by mr. 1 to attack Zoro, able to make Zoro pushed into a big pillar, strangely, the pillar behind zoro also be cut off by that attack. while Zoro himself did not cut off XD
(Chapter 195).
I doubt, this is plot hole or not. because I don't understand why Oda make this scene. Manga Logic maybe?

2. Heat of Enel lightning that could melt the gold, but completely unable to melt Luffy's rubber body. Whereas Oda Showing in Enel Lightning also containing of heat. For example, all human in skypiea who hit by enel lightning will be scorched (burn).
I think this is a plot hole If Oda make Luffy can resist the lightning following the heat of lightning, by the demands of the Luffy victory stories.
If Oda retaining the principle of the lightning have a heat by direct hit, then the concept about "rubber is natural enemy for lightning" will fail. And the story couldn't be done.
Except, if Oda showing the scene the natural rubber also not burned hit by the lightning. it mean, Oda create his own logic that all the rubber can resist the lightning following the heat.
Different with manga Logic like this : Zoro and the others couldn't killed by enel Lightning with millions voltage.

3. Sometimes, Oda not consistent about the size and distance. For examples, The size of Seaking about 5000 meters by OP Blue : Grand data file, While we know the distance from sea level to the mermaid island is 10,000 meters and there are the trench at a depth of 7000 meters. Supposedly, with 2 seakings able to reach the surface, but in describing, some seaking not look like measuring 5000 meters.
And, how the seakings suddenly coming into Fishman Island by the Shirahoshi power. I think, with the ultimate size of seakings, they will difficult to move in Fishman Island. So, I think this case can be called a plot hole.

lets give your opinion :)

note : If you found the topic about plothole, please give me the relevan link, thank you..

So was this ever stated in the manga or is it only found in the databooks ? Because the manga is the only reliable source when it comes to One Piece and i don't ever remember reading that sea kings are 5000 meters in the manga .

[Siauhiji]

@chapapa:

For me, indeed Oda showed some inconsistencies there. He left that 'little' things unexplained, though its not a big deal.
There is also possibility that someday he would confirm that in SBS too, until the day lets just keep them the way they were.

Oke, Thank you for your opinion
Yeah, I just want to show inconsistencies in manga,..

@Doffy.:

So was this ever stated in the manga or is it only found in the databooks ? Because the manga is the only reliable source when it comes to One Piece and i don't ever remember reading that sea kings are 5000 meters in the manga .

Yes, that information about seaking size only in databook. but databook is valid source outside the original manga or SBS.
I think it's still associated with manga. Same with the information about character names in databook that is not mentioned in manga. So we can use it as valid source.

to All, I also want to know what is difference of Manga Logic and PlotHole ?
give your opinion

[Galaxy 9000]

@Siauhiji:

Yes, that information about seaking size only in databook. but databook is valid source outside the original manga or SBS.
I think it's still associated with manga. Same with the information about character names in databook that is not mentioned in manga. So we can use it as valid source.

Unfortunately, the databooks are written by Oda's assistants and have contained inconsistencies that have been contradicted by Oda himself in an SBS, or even before the databook.

Instances include Drake's birthday, jolly rogers, and calling "Doctor Black Beard" "Kurotsuru".

Not including the more obvious Sabo since that one was apparently an obituary written from the character's perspectives.