What if you think and analyze how idiotic is that possibility taking in consideration that Vander DOESN'T like having a boss?
You're being idiotic too by not even reading his idiotic post right, hes talking about Tom brother DEN, not VDD.
What if you think and analyze how idiotic is that possibility taking in consideration that Vander DOESN'T like having a boss?
You're being idiotic too by not even reading his idiotic post right, hes talking about Tom brother DEN, not VDD.
Why does a crew member have to die for a new one to join?
Why can't they just join instead?
Yah, Zoro was living even though Brook joined and he had swords
Still, we have Franky and Usopp to work on the ship we really don't need another. Which is why I just have a strong feeling Hodi will join.
Hodi is a fat useless character that depends on drugs to fight, his personality is also dependent on the dreams of Arlong; he's a horrible character that wont join.
Hodi is a fat useless character that depends on drugs to fight, his personality is also dependent on the dreams of Arlong; he's a horrible character that wont join.
Franky is a terrible character who depends on cheap ass method like beating up a weakling and stealing the money of him
Wiper is a horrible person who attacked innocent people just because they came to sky island.
Robin is the most horrible of them all. Sailing years with one of the most horrible pirates killing people and so on.
Wiper is a horrible person who attacked innocent people just because they came to sky island.
Comparing Wiper to Hodi is idiotic, Wiper was at war, he wanted the death of those he was at war with, that is the inherent evil of war, not Wiper's personal actions, he followed his tribe.
Hodi wants to commit treason against his own people and his own king. He wants to replace the king who is maintaining peace with marines and pirates through his alliance with Big Mom, Hodi would absolve any and all relationships with her, forcing FI to fall into decades of disarray and hundreds of innocent deaths.
Oh and most important of all, Wiper didn't join, despite being redeemed.
Well this chapter mentioned Jinbe being with a fraction of the Pirates of the Sun so he may still have a crew to be with, this lowered his chance in my book a bit.
Comparing Wiper to Hodi is idiotic, Wiper was at war, he wanted the death of those he was at war with, that is the inherent evil of war, not Wiper's personal actions, he followed his tribe.
Hodi wants to commit treason against his own people and his own king. He wants to replace the king who is maintaining peace with marines and pirates through his alliance with Big Mom, Hodi would absolve any and all relationships with her, forcing FI to fall into decades of disarray and hundreds of innocent deaths.
Oh and most important of all, Wiper didn't join, despite being redeemed.
Shit on Hodi joining. Wiper attacked Luffy and the crew right after they entered the island. And there was no war at this time
And you know that there is more to the fishmen slavery than this hate shit? The hating has a bigger reason than just some ego shit.
But glad you know all the stuff around it now.
But you probably thought right away that Wiper was a good person or Franky would join after having attacked Usopp and Luffy…
And yeah... We have Hatchan... What happened to him? Or was he a good guy in AP as well?
The Strawhats are pirates, they are attacked practically everywhere they go, Wiper defending his home is justified, if pirates suddenly showed up in your home you'd pick up a shotgun and scare them away as well.
what the fuck is going on with this thread???? I mean seriously what???
I don't think I can read any more of these posts, I'll come back after a few more chapters that shoot down most of these theroies, and someone please erase that franky will die theory, that's just sad
Ahh yeah^^ of course that is a good reason
And Hatchan? Or did you know back then that he is a good guy.
Seriously your point is idiotic as long as you don't know the WHOLE background of this hate.
Hatchan didn't join the Strawhats either, you're arguing for Hodi to be the new crewmate when at most he'll be redeemed and be a functioning member of society.
@JERK:
Actually….considering a post I just made on the spoiler thread... I feel more strongly about Jimbei not joining the Strawhats. […] The problem people are having with the antagonists in this arc….is the problem the antagonists are having. They don't have a real leader. […] I don't look at the Fishmen baddies (aside from Decken) as evils to be cast aside. […] I see them like Wiper and the Shandians. Antagonistic forces with deep down legitimate grievances that will require some major force to put straight. There's only one potential leader among the current roster of Fishmen. Jimbei.
I realize this post was made before the entire chapter came out, so I'll keep that in mind, but I am going to argue under the assumption you still maintain all of these points. That said, there are two main reasons I disagree with what you've suggested: first is the confirmation that Jinbei is not allowed on the island because of his bounty, and second is that Hodi was noted as being a promising soldier who obviously left his post.
Now, considering the bolded portion above, why can't we view Hodi as our Wiper of Fishman Island? Someone who is leading a group at the moment, and is capable of leading– see the way he handled Decken this chapter-- but is as you said misguided. Unlike Jinbei he is from his own generation, whereas Jinbei comes from Arlong and Tiger's generation of "repeating mistakes". So I'm not sure Jinbei would be the best fit, especially when the New Fishman Pirate's view him and his Sunny Pirates as a "pain in the ass". Even if the NFP are redeemed and have a change of heart, I don't see any motivation for them to follow Jinbei. It's like– and you might disagree here-- but it's similar to suggesting Wiper would follow Gun Fall's leadership after the battle in Skypiea. I realize there's a key difference between the two scenarios, but I don't think it really changes much. Anyway, Hodi was noted to have been a promising soldier, is in a position of leadership now, and clearly has both the dedication and desire to lead his generation into their rightful place, misguided as that is. Why not him?
Going back to Jinbei, I'm still on the fence. On the one hand I can agree with you that while his bounty is the reason for him not being allowed in the island currently, it might not really be his bounty that is the problem, but instead whatever drama is controlling the island. For example, Big Mom clearly has different standards than Whitebeard, and as such might not be so forgiving about a pirate crew (Sunny Pirates) hanging out in her territory. Destroy the island and that problem might go away. I personally would still argue that his bounty is a long-term issue, but that would just be my opinion at that point. At the moment, however, he is not allowed on the island, and until we get more details on the reason behind that I'll remain on the fence, leaning towards "his bounty is a long-term problem".
Hatchan didn't join the Strawhats either, you're arguing for Hodi to be the new crewmate when at most he'll be redeemed and be a functioning member of society.
I just said he is interesting -.-
And you hasn't answered my question. Is Hatchan an evil guy?
Hatchan is not evil. It is shown that he feels remorse for doing what he did to nami so i would say that he is a good guy.
He was never portrayed as being the smartest character, even when he was on Arlong's crew, we knew he was a big dufus. Hatchan acted as a villain while on Arlong's crew and was redeemed as most villains the Strawhats face.
He's still not a Strawhat.
@Luffyfan:
Which is why I just have a strong feeling Hodi will join.
You chose to defend his statement, which shows you agreed with him.
The Strawhats are pirates, they are attacked practically everywhere they go, Wiper defending his home is justified, if pirates suddenly showed up in your home you'd pick up a shotgun and scare them away as well.
I don't think Wiper even knew what pirates were. Skypeia has very limited contact with people on the blue sea. They didn't even know what gold was.
The Strawhats are pirates, they are attacked practically everywhere they go, Wiper defending his home is justified, if pirates suddenly showed up in your home you'd pick up a shotgun and scare them away as well.
Technically speaking, Wiper was all the way down at the White Sea when he indiscriminately attacked the Strawhat crew and the Eraser Pirates. His home was up in the White-White Sea, a long way away, so it's not like it was even remotely close to self-defense. What was he even doing there, I wonder? In any case, I think his actions are the same as Hodi's. Hodi believes his home is "under attack" from humans, be it the slave trade or pirates, and his misguided notions towards humans as a whole are no different than Wiper's hate for anyone not Shandian. Wiper would have attacked innocent people from Angel Beach just as soon as he would attack Enel's priests, because they "stole" their land from them.
I don't think Wiper even knew what pirates were. Skypeia has very limited contact with people on the blue sea. They didn't even know what gold was.
He knew. They referred to them as Blue Sea pirates or whatever.
And you hasn't answered my question. Is Hatchan an evil guy?
Without a doubt he never was. He was likewise misguided, to perhaps help your point, but even then he was extremely polite to Zoro (a human) and only ever showed anger when he learned that Zoro hurt all of his friends / crew mates. Him being on the crew in general suggests he believed at least slightly in being a superior race, and by remaining silent and/or helping Arlong he indirectly approves of their actions, but we all know he wasn't 100% and felt terrible about it. In that regard I certainly wouldn't compare him to Hodi, who appears to be much more heartless and is a strong believer in fishman superiority. At the same time, as you can see in my other post, I think he is still redeemable, unlike Arlong who crossed the line with Bellemere.
I like how now that brennen and jerk compare Wiper to Hodi it's suddenly not a stupid comparison anymore lol.
I've been pretty absent from the forums lately; was it ever a "stupid comparison"? I wouldn't say Skypiea and Fishman Island are parallels or anything, but there are some similarities worth noting.
Like Nami noted, Hatchan is and has always been harmless if left up to his own devices.
He was never portrayed as being the smartest character, even when he was on Arlong's crew, we knew he was a big dufus. Hatchan acted as a villain while on Arlong's crew and was redeemed as most villains the Strawhats face.
He's still not a Strawhat.
You chose to defend his statement, which shows you agreed with him.
LOL Ok. Franky wasn't eveil, Hatchan wasn't evil, Wiper was a good guy straight away.
Good 2 know… Glad that still some other seems some similarities.
And I chose do defend him... LOL you don't get it.
Hatchan was misguided, Hodi is intelligent enough to understand his choices.
Wiper never aligned himself with Enel's priests, he had a clear sense of loyalty to his tribe, Hodi has no such loyalties for his people and plans to commit treason in order to get his way.
Hatchan was misguided, Hodi is intelligent enough to understand his choices.
Wiper never aligned himself with Enel's priests, he had a clear sense of loyalty to his tribe, Hodi has no such loyalties for his people and plans to commit treason in order to get his way.
Yeah and that's the reason why he was at the army first^^
But glad you know everything about the backstories now… And please tell me one other thing... if he is that evil and all... Why the good-hearted Jinbei doesn't want Luffy to fight him or is doing something against him.
And Wiper was still evil at the first sight. Same for Franky. You can deny it as you want. Same for Hatchan. Misguided or not.
You seem to see a lot of good in a character that had no loyalty to Hatchan, whom he admired and looked up to as a child when VDD attacked him, while he was with crutches.
Lastly, if Hodi is redeemed, it'll be after he receives a thrashing from Jinbe or Luffy, it won't be fighting the good fight against VDD like Wiper did against Enel.
And you seem to be good as well forgetting that Hatchan stayed right next to Arlong who shot in the head of Bellmere.
Or Franky who was OK that Usopp was owned by his people
Or Robin who was willingly to see Croc killing people left and right
we havent seen a giant nor a fishman and we need a new woman. you come up with the conlusion!
I do feel Hodi has more to offer than Arlong 2.0, redemption seems possible, All Hodi has grown up with is hearing the racist speech of Arlong and wishing to be like him and join his crew.I doubt Hodi has ever heard or seen anything different than hate.
And you seem to be good as well forgetting that Hatchan stayed right next to Arlong who shot in the head of Bellmere.
Or Franky who was OK that Usopp was owned by his people
Or Robin who was willingly to see Croc killing people left and right
You can't understand the difference between an enemy and someone that is evil: Hatchan, Franky and Robin had no loyalties to those people; Hodi, despite his loyalties was willing to let one of his mentors be murdered while defenseless.
Buggy killed his own crewmates as well, I suppose you think he's "good" as well because he's likeable and has been redeemed though right?
Or Franky who was OK that Usopp was owned by his people
So if I beat up one of your friends, not to death, then after you wrecked my home and my friends decided I'd help you save one of your friends who was going to kill herself for you, I'd be the same as someone murdering and betraying others who you then beat until I saw the error of my ways? Pfffftt… hahahahahahahaha, way to not understand the difference in character here.
Or Robin who was willingly to see Croc killing people left and right
She did so to survive. Hodi isn't betraying FI and murdering human pirates to survive….
Hatchan didn't join, nor did Wiper, so such comparisons are mostly irrelevant. Hodi can be redeemed, but he won't join automatically just because of it. Thus far there's nothing pointing to him aiding the SHs as all these others have. If he's redeemed, it'll be after he's beaten and realizes he was wrong, unlike Franky, unlike Robin, unlike Wiper.
You can't understand the difference between an enemy and someone that is evil: Hatchan, Franky and Robin had no loyalties to those people; Hodi, despite his loyalties was willing to let one of his mentors be murdered while defenseless.
Buggy killed his own crewmates as well, I suppose you think he's "good" as well because he's likeable and has been redeemed though right?
Hatchan was Loyal to Arlong, he joined up with him after the sunny pirates split, he stayed threw the years of abuse to the locals and fought for him. Saying Hatchan was not loyal to Arlong is insane.
You can't understand the difference between an enemy and someone that is evil: Hatchan, Franky and Robin had no loyalties to those people; Hodi, despite his loyalties was willing to let one of his mentors be murdered while defenseless.
Buggy killed his own crewmates as well, I suppose you think he's "good" as well because he's likeable and has been redeemed though right?
LOL so there are 2 sides of evil.
One is OK and the other one is wrong.
Once again… Yo you know what happened why he became like this.
If he is that evil..: Why Jinbei + crew don't do anyhting against it. And please don't say he can't.
And you say Buggy is a truly evil guy xD
Mr 2 as well after being such an ass during Arabasta. Mr 3 is truly an evil asshole as well. ID showed that
If Hodi is redeemed, it'll be after he receives a thrashing from Jinbe or Luffy, it won't be fighting the good fight against VDD like Wiper did against Enel.
Or perhaps Nami, eh? =P
Hatchan was Loyal to Arlong, he joined up with him after the sunny pirates split, he stayed threw the years of abuse to the locals and fought for him. Saying Hatchan was not loyal to Arlong is insane.
When did I say Hatchan was not loyal to Arlong? I said Hatchan had no loyalties to Bellemere.
@KiShiDo:
LOL so there are 2 sides of evil.
No, and this is why I maintain you can't separate an enemy from an evil character. Shanks is an enemy of Whitebeard, as is Law an enemy of Luffy, have their actions proven they are evil?
One is OK and the other one is wrong.
Once again… Yo you know what happened why he became like this.If he is that evil..: Why Jinbei + crew don't do anyhting against it. And please don't say he can't.
I won't but you said it yourself, if you read the latest chapter Jinbe cannot affect FI politics at the moment due to his wanted status.
And you say Buggy is a truly evil guy xD
Mr 2 as well after being such an ass during Arabasta. Mr 3 is truly an evil asshole as well. ID showed that
Teaming up with Luffy doesn't make them any less evil, they had a common enemy in the marines, if you can't see that then I feel sorry for you.
Although Mr. 2 can be considered a special case, because he's the villain with the heart of gold.
Or perhaps Nami, eh? =P
It's not impossible :)
Last thing and then my full attention will go to Inter vs Bayern:
Killing someone you perceive as an enemy is not inherently evil, (unless you commit genocide) or fail to offer them their life however allowing someone you consider your teacher, king or comrade to be slaughtered is a sign that you're a pretty bad dude.
When did I say Hatchan was not loyal to Arlong? I said Hatchan had no loyalties to Bellemere.
Ah my error i misread.
But funny that people already know everything about a character, even if some misteries are their around him.
But back to Jinbei.
Brennen what are you saying… If he is still with his crew and they aren't disbanded. Hasn't this decreased his chances a bit
But funny that people already know everything about a character, even if some misteries are their around him.
We know enough from the scene with Hodi letting VDD attack Hatchan alone that he won't end up like Franky and Robin. Robin may have been allied with murderous pirates, but we saw her help the SHs enough times to know something was up, and lo and behold later we find that she was doing what was needed to survive. Franky attacked Usopp, but iirc it was already being hinted that he had a relationship to Iceburg, and shortly later we saw him with Usopp and got his backstory, and he helped against the real villains of the arc. So far there's little pointing toward Hodi helping the SHs at all, and betraying someone you once looked up to is one of the worst things you can do in a shonen manga. Hodi might be redeemed after it, but it screwed him ever getting a main character position.
And it's more funny that you can't understand the difference in severity of their actions. Robin being allied with murderous pirates yet helping the SHs (later we find she was with the murderous folk to survive), Franky merely mugging someone and then turning around and helping that guy's friends save Robin for no reason other than being kindhearted (and later we find out the mugging was for money for his dream ship), Hatchan aiding Arlong because he is misguided (and aside from Marines and SHs, did we see him attack humans himself? seemed that was mostly Arlong rampaging). Hmmm, these all sound as terrible as betraying someone you used to look up to, directly murdering people, and betraying your country…
It's not like all these people haven't done horrible things. They're pirates after all.
I prefer to go on how they've been presented as characters when i consider which character i think is worthy of redemption.
It's not like all these people haven't done horrible things. They're pirates after all.
I prefer to go on how they've been presented as characters when i consider which character i think is worthy of redemption.
if youre talking about hodi then its still way too early to tell. i understand your argument tho
Happy it's confirmed Jinbe has a crew.
Allowing someone you consider your teacher, king or comrade to be slaughtered is a sign that you're a pretty bad dude.
Hodi is definitely more unlikeable because of that, but given the circumstances I wouldn't say it is as bad as you are making it. His respect for Hachi stemmed from his past as a staff officer on Arlong's crew, but clearly Hachi disagreed with the NFP's methods and had exhaustively attempted to dissuade them. As Hodi said, he was getting sick of Hachi's cowardly actions and no longer viewed him with that same regard, so he was no longer a comrade, so to speak. In the same manner, his inaction with Decken was due to their alliance; I mean, it's not like he was going to kill Hachi himself, he simply told him to leave. But sure, he's definitely a bad guy right now, and in the context of next crew member, I'd say he is definitely out of the race.
Don't shoot me down for this but.
What if Franky gets killed and Den takes his place? That's a twist not many would see coming - maybe not even killed just incapacitated to the point of being unable to travel.
I don't know why I thought it but I just did maybe its the whole 3am thinking thing.
I realize this post was made before the entire chapter came out, so I'll keep that in mind, but I am going to argue under the assumption you still maintain all of these points. That said, there are two main reasons I disagree with what you've suggested: first is the confirmation that Jinbei is not allowed on the island because of his bounty, and second is that Hodi was noted as being a promising soldier who obviously left his post.
Now, considering the bolded portion above, why can't we view Hodi as our Wiper of Fishman Island? Someone who is leading a group at the moment, and is capable of leading– see the way he handled Decken this chapter-- but is as you said misguided. Unlike Jinbei he is from his own generation, whereas Jinbei comes from Arlong and Tiger's generation of "repeating mistakes". So I'm not sure Jinbei would be the best fit, especially when the New Fishman Pirate's view him and his Sunny Pirates as a "pain in the ass". Even if the NFP are redeemed and have a change of heart, I don't see any motivation for them to follow Jinbei. It's like– and you might disagree here-- but it's similar to suggesting Wiper would follow Gun Fall's leadership after the battle in Skypiea.
It's not the same as that.
Gan Fall was a Skypiean.
Jimbei and Hodi are both Fishmen. They represent a tug of war on the same group. Whereas Gun Fall and Wiper were of two different groups entirely.
I realize there's a key difference between the two scenarios, but I don't think it really changes much. Anyway, Hodi was noted to have been a promising soldier, is in a position of leadership now, and clearly has both the dedication and desire to lead his generation into their rightful place, misguided as that is. Why not him?
He hasn't shown any real leadership quality. He's the head of the group, but nothing about it really comes off as anything but "biggest dog in current pack" when leadership is much more than that.
Brennen what are you saying… If he is still with his crew and they aren't disbanded... hasn't this decreased his chances a bit
I don't really view the argument as an incremental or decremental process, so much as I look at the whole and weigh the options. As I have said, I can agree that the evidence is in favor of him still being an active pirate captain, but at the same time we know absolutely nothing about said crew, and as such cannot do much with the limited information we have. It seems to me that even if his crew is active, there isn't a very strong connection or obligation to the crew. I mean, are they really active? It certainly seems more like they simply exist, but are more or less retired. The dialog thus far suggests that they have been living at Fishman Island, not travelling around as pirates would, and obviously we neither saw them nor heard of them during the entirety of Impel Down to Marineford to Amazon Lily to Saboady Archipelago. As of now I see them as a remnant of a crew that once was, at most serving as a private militia for Fishman Island, if the dialog in this chapter is any hint.
But anyway, as a whole, Jinbei still has all of the important qualities we look for in a crew member. The only arguments against his favor are his experience and potential crew, and that much has been against him for two plus years. So if I had to answer your question, no, I don't think this information lowers his chances. It doesn't help though, either.
if youre talking about hodi then its still way too early to tell. i understand your argument tho
Was actualy talking about Robin, Franky, and Hatchan.
And how despite all that they did they all had obvious personality traits that idenfitied them as redemable pretty much right from the start.
Was actualy talking about Robin, Franky, and Hatchan.
And how despite all that they did they all had obvious personality traits that idenfitied them as redemable pretty much right from the start.
unfortunately many who argue will not understand the true importance of this quote
@JERK:
It's not the same as that. Gan Fall was a Skypiean. Jimbei and Hodi are both Fishmen. They represent a tug of war on the same group. Whereas Gun Fall and Wiper were of two different groups entirely.
Like I said, I understand that there is a key difference between the two, I just don't think it matters to my argument. My point was in regard to conflicting ideals. Gun Fall wanted peace and had sympathy for the Shandians, but that peace conflicted with what Wiper wanted. Likewise, Jinbei appears to want peace between humans and that peace conflicts with what Hodi wants. I already made my case, which I guess you don't see worth debating, so I'll just clarify that Gun Fall represented the third party perspective that had sympathy for both sides, while choosing to act alone and seek peace. Wiper saw him as a threat, and rejected his notion of peace. I'm not trying to force parallels or anything, but Jinbei represents that same third party that acts alone, seeks peace, and has sympathy for both parties.
Surely the "pain in the ass" comment aimed at the Sunny Pirates was referencing their defense of humans or at least disapproval of their goals as "New" Fishman Pirates. You don't think Hodi's gang sees Jinbei as a traitor for siding with the World Government? What motivation would they have to follow him even if they had a change of heart? Wounds take time to heal. Jinbei doesn't represent their generation, has worked for the World Government, is friendly with fish, has been friendly with humans, etc.
@JERK:
He hasn't shown any real leadership quality. He's the head of the group, but nothing about it really comes off as anything but "biggest dog in current pack" when leadership is much more than that.
All I can agree on is that Jinbei would make a good role model for fishmen, but as a role model he doesn't need to be present. The bit about Hodi being a promising soldier shouldn't just be tossed aside; I mean, Oda stuck it in there in an attempt at giving Hodi another layer to his character. What was a guy like Hodi, who wanted to be a part of Arlong's cause but was too young, doing joining the royal army? Furthermore, if his career was promising enough to capture the king's attention, then clearly Oda has longer term plans for him and believes he is capable of being a leader. Generation-wise, I think he holds much more influence and is much more relevant than Jinbei, at least on Fishman Island.
But glad you know everything about the backstories now… And please tell me one other thing... if he is that evil and all... Why the good-hearted Jinbei doesn't want Luffy to fight him or is doing something against him.
Maybe Jinbe want to protect Luffy from a war against BM. FI is now under the protection of BM, so if Luffy and Hodi make a ruckus there, she would come and beat (if she can) both of them like when Ace made a fight with Jinbe WB came.
You're being idiotic too by not even reading his idiotic post right, hes talking about Tom brother DEN, not VDD.
It called being a little bit distracted. Far from being idiotic. But still my bad, I misread DEN as some kind of abreviation for Vander Decken.
I like how now that brennen and jerk compare Wiper to Hodi it's suddenly not a stupid comparison anymore lol.
If you compare them from an ideology standpoint (fightning to recover some lost land vs. fighting to overthrow a human-friendly regime to rule over humans) it's stupid. But basicly they are both savage and violent, but not equally "evil" as you once stated.
@JERK:
It's not the same as that.
Gan Fall was a Skypiean.
Jimbei and Hodi are both Fishmen. They represent a tug of war on the same group. Whereas Gun Fall and Wiper were of two different groups entirely.
This situation is different from Skypia. Fishmen and Mermen are much closer and have essentially evolved together on the ocean floor. While it is clear that almost all the NFP are fishmen and the Royal family are all mermen this fight really has more to do with philisophical differences than one group vs another. Jinbe clearly follows queen Otohime's philosophy which is along line with the Royal Family.
Like I said, I understand that there is a key difference between the two, I just don't think it matters to my argument. My point was in regard to conflicting ideals. Gun Fall wanted peace and had sympathy for the Shandians, but that peace conflicted with what Wiper wanted. Likewise, Jinbei appears to want peace between humans and that peace conflicts with what Hodi wants. I already made my case, which I guess you don't see worth debating, so I'll just clarify that Gun Fall represented the third party perspective that had sympathy for both sides, while choosing to act alone and seek peace. Wiper saw him as a threat, and rejected his notion of peace. I'm not trying to force parallels or anything, but Jinbei represents that same third party that acts alone, seeks peace, and has sympathy for both parties.
Surely the "pain in the ass" comment aimed at the Sunny Pirates was referencing their defense of humans or at least disapproval of their goals as "New" Fishman Pirates. You don't think Hodi's gang sees Jinbei as a traitor for siding with the World Government? What motivation would they have to follow him even if they had a change of heart? Wounds take time to heal. Jinbei doesn't represent their generation, has worked for the World Government, is friendly with fish, has been friendly with humans, etc.
All I can agree on is that Jinbei would make a good role model for fishmen, but as a role model he doesn't need to be present. The bit about Hodi being a promising soldier shouldn't just be tossed aside; I mean, Oda stuck it in there in an attempt at giving Hodi another layer to his character. What was a guy like Hodi, who wanted to be a part of Arlong's cause but was too young, doing joining the royal army? Furthermore, if his career was promising enough to capture the king's attention, then clearly Oda has longer term plans for him and believes he is capable of being a leader. Generation-wise, I think he holds much more influence and is much more relevant than Jinbei, at least on Fishman Island.
I don't necessarily agree with Zeph, but:
-Gun Fall was the leader of the Skypeian before he was dethroned. If my memory serves me right, he conflicted with Wiper as the SKypeian leader, not a third party. Skypeians weren't exactly contradicting his ideal, only the opposite young generation leader, Wiper, rejected. When he stopped being leader, his conflict with Wiper no longer maintained heated, and he didn't choose to act alone, he was DETHRONED and FORCED to act lone. If Wiper is Hodi then Jinbei and Neptune are more like the Shandian elders, just that Hodi has more heated relationship because he is not as influential and well-trusted as Wiper.
!
That said, the situation in Fishman Island isn't like what happened in Skypea. Trying to make a parallel would be absurd IMO, even my own comparison above.
-King Neptune reaction to hearing Hodi's name was like :"Hodi? Isn't he the guy who used to chill around these parts?", "Yeah that guy. Man, whatever happened?". He doesn't seem that impressive or noticed since the minister has to remind the king of him/confirm his identity.
!
If Hodi is really actively infamous and influential in Fishman Island these days, then he would have been paid attention and discussed by the King and his staff even before he intruded the Palace. But, as we see, only when he appeared in the Palace the King started to remember about him.
-Jinbei is far more influential than Hodi.
!
-Hodi joined the army, because he thought doing so would help him follow his ideal, he thought the army (or all worthy fishfolk/merfolk) had the same Nazi mindset as him, I suppose. But he was frustrated realizing the King want to be friendly with humans.