@JERK:
Feathery hair and babyfaces have jackshit to do with good parenting. What th heck are you talking about.
http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2009/10/does_taking_birth_control_alte.php
@JERK:
Feathery hair and babyfaces have jackshit to do with good parenting. What th heck are you talking about.
http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2009/10/does_taking_birth_control_alte.php
one of my friends is gay. Doesn't mean I accept gay people.
Not accepting gay people is pretty inexcusable in this day and age and of our generation unless you're like some kind of hardcore religious type.
Pretty sure it's still inexcusable even then. It'd be a sorry state of things if being a hardcore religious type gave you extra dispensation for bigotry.
@JERK:
Not accepting gay people is pretty inexcusable in this day and age and of our generation unless you're like some kind of hardcore religious type.
last time i checked it was the "hardcore religious types" that are the gayest around. "Raping little boys" is almost synonymous with "Church" or "Priests"
and no, if people have a right to be gay, then people have a right to not accept gays. It's that simple.
Moronic post of the day.
Moronic post of the day.
Yes I agree. In addition to that honour, you also won "Moronic Poster of the Week" award. Congrats Kaiolino.
and no, if people have a right to be gay, then people have a right to not accept gays. It's that simple.
You say that as if being gay was a choice.
Just as long as they don't do anything about their beliefs. Unfortunately they do which is what makes it inexcusable.
I mean I hold a lot of beliefs that, if I acted on them, would leave a lot of people very unhappy, so I don't.
Just as long as they don't do anything about their beliefs. Unfortunately they do which is what makes it inexcusable.
I mean I hold a lot of beliefs that, if I acted on them, would leave a lot of people very unhappy, so I don't.
tbh i dont give a shit even if they do do stuff according to their beliefs. There's no point to them being gay if they didnt do gay shit. I don't mind in the slightest if in some quiet distant room somewhere two guys decide to get it on.
The problem, at least in my point of view, is when they come out in droves and block the streets waiving banners and openly parading to show off "pride". That's when I say "fuck these gay fucks" and the hate starts.
Anyways we're digressing. One Piece! Oh what a fantastic manga!
Well kagehisa your point would be valid if you also included a character based on him into what is sure to be the biggest work of your writing career as well as have him inspire you to include multiple groups of gay people in said writing. But you didn't. Your just friends with him. Oda specifically said that he thought this okama was a strong person and that's what inspired him. The person in question actually voices Iva in the anime and was part of the inspiration for him. Why don't you stow your bigotry and take a lesson from a man I think we both respect.
tbh i dont give a shit even if they do do stuff according to their beliefs. There's no point to them being gay if they didnt do gay shit. I don't mind in the slightest if in some quiet distant room somewhere two guys decide to get it on.
The problem, at least in my point of view, is when they come out in droves and block the streets waiving banners and openly parading to show off "pride". That's when I say "fuck these gay fucks" and the hate starts.
Anyways we're digressing. One Piece! Oh what a fantastic manga!
Um no, I was referring to the people who are anti-gay, they're the ones who do the annoying shit.
Well, I suppose the gay people can be pretty annoying too.
I'm pretty much prejudiced against everyone.
tbh i dont give a shit even if they do do stuff according to their beliefs. There's no point to them being gay if they didnt do gay shit. I don't mind in the slightest if in some quiet distant room somewhere two guys decide to get it on.
The problem, at least in my point of view, is when they come out in droves and block the streets waiving banners and openly parading to show off "pride". That's when I say "fuck these gay fucks" and the hate starts.
Eh, can't really say anything against that, since I've heard of gays who also hate gay pride parades for making the rest look like freaks.
last time i checked it was the "hardcore religious types" that are the gayest around. "Raping little boys" is almost synonymous with "Church" or "Priests"
and no, if people have a right to be gay, then people have a right to not accept gays. It's that simple.
I'm not saying it should be illegal you moron, I'm saying it's an indefensable bunch of bullshit to not do it unless you are under the impression a gigantic magic man will explode you for doing otherwise.
And if you're enough of a dumbass simpleton to equate annoyance of a parade with hatred of an entire sexual orientation then you deserve to explode.
@JERK:
I'm not saying it should be illegal you moron, I'm saying it's an indefensable bunch of bullshit to not do it unless you are under the impression a gigantic magic man will explode you for doing otherwise.
I read that as explode on you :blink:
Kinda changed the context of the statement till I re-read it.
Well kagehisa your point would be valid if you also included a character based on him into what is sure to be the biggest work of your writing career as well as have him inspire you to include multiple groups of gay people in said writing. But you didn't. Your just friends with him. Oda specifically said that he thought this okama was a strong person and that's what inspired him. The person in question actually voices Iva in the anime and was part of the inspiration for him. Why don't you stow your bigotry and take a lesson from a man I think we both respect.
You mean used to voice Iva in the anime. Norio Imamura no longer does the voice.
You mean used to voice Iva in the anime. Norio Imamura no longer does the voice.
Really? Is that why the voice is no longer awesome?
Imamura was a match for Ivankov, but his new VA is actually pretty good.
I don't mind the new one, it's just the first scene when we meet Iva is my favorite scene in the entire anime. I must have watched it 5 times the first night it came out, in fact, I'm gonna go watch it again now.
Imamura was a match for Ivankov, but his new VA is actually pretty good.
Yeah I didn't even really notice it changed.
tbh i dont give a shit even if they do do stuff according to their beliefs. There's no point to them being gay if they didnt do gay shit. I don't mind in the slightest if in some quiet distant room somewhere two guys decide to get it on.
The problem, at least in my point of view, is when they come out in droves and block the streets waiving banners and openly parading to show off "pride". That's when I say "fuck these gay fucks" and the hate starts.
Anyways we're digressing. One Piece! Oh what a fantastic manga!
You know that this is the same exact thought process someone probably thought about women and blacks back in the day and even today.
@JERK:
And if you're enough of a dumbass simpleton to equate annoyance of a parade with hatred of an entire sexual orientation then you deserve to explode.
exactly, people do this to often where they group everyone together because of some event, I know gay people you would never guess or gay, they don't go parading in the streets
it's like after 9/11 people started hating on Muslims, like there all terrorists, well less than a fraction of a percent actually are, in fact they live in fear of them more so then we do, to equate an entire race, or religion to extremists is wrong no matter what, you can do it for any thing religion, race, being gay but no matter what it's wrong
exactly, people do this to often where they group everyone together because of some event, I know gay people you would never guess or gay, they don't go parading in the streets
it's like after 9/11 people started hating on Muslims, like there all terrorists, well less than a fraction of a percent actually are, in fact they live in fear of them more so then we do, to equate an entire race, or religion to extremists is wrong no matter what, you can do it for any thing religion, race, being gay but no matter what it's wrong
This, and quite frankly, there are better battles to fight than against gays. World hunger? Energy crisis? You don't like them? Fine, just don't insult them, let them get married and leave them the fuck alone, I'm sure most of them would appreciate it. Regardless, it's clear Oda is not an intolerant person and if you all respect him as much as I think you do maybe you should try taking a lesson from One Piece. It doesn't matter how weird, hated or different you are, there's a place for you.
@JERK:
Not accepting gay people is pretty inexcusable in this day and age and of our generation unless you're like some kind of hardcore religious type.
Or you're the governor of Tokyo.
Or you're the governor of Tokyo.
What I've read is that guy is a complete all around scumbag of awful right wing opinions.
Yes, that is true, but more relevantly he made public degrading statements about gays just recently.
He's been doing this bigoted hate of minorities for years, and yet get away with it. Hence my sarcasm.
His douchiness pretty much goes shoulder to shoulder with any other asshole in history. Almost embarassed to say he wrote a book that was turned into a movie I really enjoy (Crazed Fruit).
He's actually a good novel writer.
I mean, all his books are just full of terrible hate and passionate tragedy, it's artistic.
His novel The Perfect Game (Kanzen na Yuugi) was absolutely awful to the point of good.
Everything he's been trying to ban in manga is in that book.
Assholes can write entertaining books.
But getting way off topic.
I don't have problems with how Oda portrays anyone. If he was an awful bigot, it wouldn't be this widely supported, IMO.
This, and quite frankly, there are better battles to fight than against gays. World hunger? Energy crisis? You don't like them? Fine, just don't insult them, let them get married and leave them the fuck alone, I'm sure most of them would appreciate it. Regardless, it's clear Oda is not an intolerant person and if you all respect him as much as I think you do maybe you should try taking a lesson from One Piece. It doesn't matter how weird, hated or different you are, there's a place for you.
yeah people need to stop all the hate, too much of it still around
@ahoige: I love the new avatar
I don't have problems with how Oda portrays anyone. If he was an awful bigot, it wouldn't be this widely supported, IMO.
Pretty much the way I feel. I mean unless it was just full of hate speech I probably wouldn't care. Also gotta agree with chopperman, your avatars awesome. Shits cash.
The Okamas in OP seem pretty true to Drag Show aesthetics, which fits with One Piece. Yes, I have seen a Drag Show. They aren't politically correct at all and that's what everyone, especially their main gay audience, loves about them.
@JERK:
Not accepting gay people is pretty inexcusable in this day and age and of our generation unless you're like some kind of hardcore religious type.
yah, but then you're talking about the western view of homosexuals.
Oda's in japan
japan doesn't have a lot of Christians. (and their christian is some sort of mix of Japaneses christian hybrid)
Shinto and Buddhism doesn't have much say about homosexuals (in fact, they hardly address it and it's nowhere to be found in their teaching)
yet japan doesn't recognize homosexual, and think if it as "western influence" the gay community (or so i heard) is very small. they are least likely to come out.
Don't talk, don't know, all happy.
religion have nothing to do with it. it has to do with society.
@Hespia:
religion have nothing to do with it. it has to do with society.
Religion is an enormous influence on culture and society. You can't talk about culture without talking about religion.
@Hespia:
yah, but then you're talking about the western view of homosexuals.
Oda's in japan
japan doesn't have a lot of Christians. (and their christian is some sort of mix of Japaneses christian hybrid)
Shinto and Buddhism doesn't have much say about homosexuals (in fact, they hardly address it and it's nowhere to be found in their teaching)yet japan doesn't recognize homosexual, and think if it as "western influence" the gay community (or so i heard) is very small. they are least likely to come out.
Don't talk, don't know, all happy.religion have nothing to do with it. it has to do with society.
Right, that's true for Japan but we've seen evidence about Oda that says the contrary though. Maybe you think he's insensitive towards gays/Okama for portraying them purely for entertainment but honestly I have met many drag queens and they are all quite proud of who they are and actually act a lot like Iva the way she sings and dances in her introduction. Keep in mind the character is based on an Okama friend of Oda's who he's stated he respects deeply and there's a very good chance that the real Iva acts that way as well.
Religion is an enormous influence on culture and society. You can't talk about culture without talking about religion.
As she just explained however, Christianity is little practiced in Japan. It's a cultural thing stemming from some other source most likely.
If you guys want to understand just how much of a repulsive swamp monster the current governor of Japan, Ishihara Shintarou, is, consider he said the following in an interview for a women's magazine (forgive the broken English):
- (Ishihara answering the interview, referring to the theory he have read(?)), "It is said that the 'Old women is the worst evil and malignant being that the civilization have produced.' It says that the 'old women who lives after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin.' Men have reproductive functions even in their 80s and their 90s, however, women cannot bear children after they reach their menopause. It says that it is evil and malicious for the world that these people live until the age of Kinsan and Ginsan (famous twin sisters over 100 years of age)…I agree with the idea, but can not say it as a politician (laughter)." (from the Interview article of "Shukan Josei", December 11, 2001 issue)
- The Governor has admitted the charge that he had made those remarks, but counter-reacted to the pursuit from the Metropolitan parliament by saying that the old women are tyrant beings. (December 11, 2001)
Oh, you aren't saying it as a politician, that's all right then.
http://www.jclu.org/katsudou/seimei_ikensho/20030127e/03speech.html
Thank god Japan has Oda to make up for this human turd and his fellow ultranationalist goblin cohorts.
@Hespia:
yah, but then you're talking about the western view of homosexuals.
Oda's in japan
Oh so the Confucian culture world?? Which has nigh identical family values based societal rules as Christianity has created??
Shinto and Buddhism doesn't have much say about homosexuals (in fact, they hardly address it and it's nowhere to be found in their teaching)
Hi! I'm a reaaaaly old Chinese philosopher named Confucius. And I've gone done exerted tremendous cultural influence on the entire Sinosphere, and family values are one of dem thangs, and well….goin' gay, shaming the family, not producing heirs, lots of stuff gonna not go well in that structure.
religion have nothing to do with it. it has to do with society.
Nigga, I'm Con-fucking-Fucius! China tried to scrub my ass out with millions of insane brainwashed Red Guards and them punk commie kids didn't even begin to bother me. You think some silly dress up boys are gonna exert influence against me so easy? Bitch got another think coming.
And yes, in the east, Philosophy is pretty synonymous with religion in many ways.
fewer than 1% of people identify themselves as belonging to the religious institution of confucian. (and if they do, they wear the old clothes and lives without technology)
To the people of far east, confucian is the ideology that have been deeply rooting in our culture and tradition. most modern people do not 'believe' in the teaching of Confucius the way you go to church and pray and so on, so i do not count Confucius as a religion. (I would count them as religion if you gave up technology and worship ancestors) Therefore Confucius is a philosophy of morality and conduct. not religion. so Confucius have to do wit Japaneses 'culture'
I didn't know that Oda have a drag queen friend and he was inspired by him to write about Okama. In that case, i think Oda is very accepting of homosexuals (well, not really homosexuals per say, but the drag queen culture) and want to express them in the positive, exaggerated and fun way that they are.
@Hespia:
fewer than 1% of people identify themselves as belonging to the religious institution of confucian. (and if they do, they wear the old clothes and lives without technology)
To the people of far east, confucian is the ideology that have been deeply rooting in our culture and tradition. most modern people do not 'believe' in the teaching of Confucius the way you go to church and pray and so on, so i do not count Confucius as a religion. (I would count them as religion if you gave up technology and worship ancestors) Therefore Confucius is a philosophy of morality and conduct. not religion. so Confucius have to do wit Japaneses 'culture'I didn't know that Oda have a drag queen friend and he was inspired by him to write about Okama. In that case, i think Oda is very accepting of homosexuals (well, not really homosexuals per say, but the drag queen culture) and want to express them in the positive, exaggerated and fun way that they are.
I think what you need to realize though is the impact Confucius. Most Japanese may not even realize their values have been effected by Confucius. His impact in Asia is MASSIVE. Many Asian cultures are based on his beliefs. What's important to realize is that Japan's many of Japan's customs come from him. Example, many children are taught from a young age in Japan that they must respect their ancestors. They don't know this is Confucianism, but they follow it regardless because it's a societal norm. You're right many don't practice it in the same way as religion this however does not diminish the cultural impact his teachings had. But also like I said Oda is not Japan. Oda is Oda. Just because it is generally not an all to accepted view in Japan it doesn't mean Oda doesn't feel differently from the general population. After all I think many of you would agree Oda is far from 'normal'.
Filial piety is big in Asia, especially in China and Korea, and it's founded in Confucian thought. It is not an overstatement to say Confucius had a massive hand in shaping Asian cultural norms.
I don't have problems with how Oda portrays anyone. If he was an awful bigot, it wouldn't be this widely supported, IMO.
I disagree, there have been tons of successful things made by horrible people and with horrible messages. Birth of a Nation was very successful despite how supportive of the KKK it was, and going for more modern examples, The Breakfast Club and Twilight have some very sexist messages.
@Hespia:
fewer than 1% of people identify themselves as belonging to the religious institution of confucian. (and if they do, they wear the old clothes and lives without technology)
To the people of far east, confucian is the ideology that have been deeply rooting in our culture and tradition. most modern people do not 'believe' in the teaching of Confucius the way you go to church and pray and so on, so i do not count Confucius as a religion. (I would count them as religion if you gave up technology and worship ancestors) Therefore Confucius is a philosophy of morality and conduct. not religion. so Confucius have to do wit Japaneses 'culture'
I'll take missing the point for 500 Alex.
@Hespia:
fewer than 1% of people identify themselves as belonging to the religious institution of confucian.
bwahahahaha, you don't get it do you. You have no idea what culture involves do you.
It's like Czech's saying they aren't living in a Christianity shaped culture.
You don't belong to Confucianism, it's deeply ingrained influence is felt all throughout the Sinosphere.
(and if they do, they wear the old clothes and lives without technology)
….Do you have even the slightest idea what Confucianism is??
To the people of far east, confucian is the ideology that have been deeply rooting in our culture and tradition. most modern people do not 'believe' in the teaching of Confucius the way you go to church and pray and so on, so i do not count Confucius as a religion.
What do you think drives the undercurrent of religion? Christianity, Islam, Judaism, these are all ideaolgies when you rub them down to the bone.
These are mass ideologies.
What do you think makes Christianity opposed to homosexuality in actual discussion? Why do you think it was written into the teachings?
(I would count them as religion if you gave up technology and worship ancestors) Therefore Confucius is a philosophy of morality and conduct. not religion. so Confucius have to do wit Japaneses 'culture'
Let me guess, you deny Chinese influence on Japanese culture.
I disagree, there have been tons of successful things made by horrible people and with horrible messages. Birth of a Nation was very successful despite how supportive of the KKK it was, and going for more modern examples, The Breakfast Club and Twilight have some very sexist messages.
I can argue you that what you're talking about and what I'm talking about is not at all the same thing, and that OP is a kid's book with much wider support than a 80s cult hit movie or fucking Twilight, but meh, it's a waste of time.
I can argue you that what you're talking about and what I'm talking about is not at all the same thing, and that OP is a kid's book with much wider support than a 80s cult hit movie or fucking Twilight, but meh, it's a waste of time.
The only point I have is that a movie/book/etc can have a lot of support and still have pretty crappy messages, I'm not saying that either of them have just as much or more popularity than One Piece.
Disney Princess movies are another example of very popular movies that also don't have the most fantastic messages, same with a lot of American comic books.
The only point I have is that a movie/book/etc can have a lot of support and still have pretty crappy messages, I'm not saying that either of them have just as much or more popularity than One Piece.
Disney Princess movies are another example of very popular movies that also don't have the most fantastic messages, same with a lot of American comic books.
I would disagree greatly. For their time the Disney Princesses were not really considered bad role models or whatever and as times change so did the "princesses". Look one of the most recent, Mulan. You're gonna tell me she's not a great role model for young girls.
As for American comics there target audience is not actually children. Very few kids read American comics, it's actually mostly nerds in their early adulthood, ya know like their 20s or 30s and frankly, hot chicks in spandex sells to this crowd.
One Piece on the other hand has the target audience of Shonen Jump which is young boys. Boys who, have parents that may read their comics. Parents who wold not want children to learn horrible messages.
The more recent ones are better, but you don't have to go that far to see some sexist messages.
Regardless of what the target audience is, many of those comics are sexist and not just in the "hot chicks in spandex" category. If sexism sells to the crowd then sexism sells to the crowd, but that doesn't mean that it justifies it or makes it go away.
I'm not saying One Piece has bad/horrible messages, I'm just saying that popularity has nothing to do on whether bad messages exist or not. I've read about plenty of women who think Bella from Twilight is a great role model and encourage their daughters to read the books as blatantly sexist as they are.
The more recent ones are better, but you don't have to go that far to see some sexist messages.
Regardless of what the target audience is, many of those comics are sexist and not just in the "hot chicks in spandex" category. If sexism sells to the crowd then sexism sells to the crowd, but that doesn't mean that it justifies it or makes it go away.I'm not saying One Piece has bad/horrible messages, I'm just saying that popularity has nothing to do on whether bad messages exist or not. I've read about plenty of women who think Bella from Twilight is a great role model and encourage their daughters to read the books as blatantly sexist as they are.
You seem to not understand that sexism sells to the crowd that buys it (nerds) thus, it is popular. It has a niche it fills thus it is popular.
One Piece's niche is young boys. Sexism (and other bad messages) does not sell to the parents of young boys who buy them One Piece. Thus, if One Piece has those messages, it will not be popular.
One Piece isn't really for young boys though, it's more for preteens and teenagers who by then can buy their own stuff.
You don't seem to understand that I'm not saying One Piece I'm sexist, I'm saying that bad messages does not determine whether something is popular or not. You even said so yourself that american comics are popular regardless of their sexism.
One Piece isn't really for young boys though, it's more for preteens and teenagers who by then can buy their own stuff.
You don't seem to understand that I'm not saying One Piece I'm sexist, I'm saying that bad messages does not determine whether something is popular or not. You even said so yourself that american comics are popular regardless of their sexism.
What we disagree on is that a bad message can determine popularity which I believe it does if the message doesn't gel with the crowd that buys it. Also regardless of whether or not their mom buys them the comic, which Im sure many preteens have them do, it's in their house, their mom will find out whats in it. Keep in mind this is in Japan, One Pieces primary market, where Shonen Jump appeals to a younger audience.
Sure, hence why teenagers never kept porn mags.
Oh wait.
I think you're being too idealistic here. Even if moms were to find it, they might not see anything wrong with it if the sexism is more subtle. Hell, there are plenty of sexist women, going back to Twilight it was written by a woman. Still appeals to women, still sexist against them.