Brennen's post is the best post in this thread.
That said, I am still the Beacon of the Timestay. Just you guys wait. It'll be a 2 or more chapter montage of strawhat action, then THE REUNION.
Brennen's post is the best post in this thread.
That said, I am still the Beacon of the Timestay. Just you guys wait. It'll be a 2 or more chapter montage of strawhat action, then THE REUNION.
@Green:
How would it be much too easy? Even the people that already assume it is what they think it is don't know exactly what it means. There is absolutely 0% possibility that his tattoo has anything to do with the message. There is no way to know which picture is going to be posted in the newspaper and whether or not the reporters decided to report on it.
It'd be much too easy for us, if Oda put the focus on Luffy's arm so we knew the message was what was written there. And I think it's safe to say that with all the kerfuffle he caused there was a good chance of a reporter getting his arm in a picture. Imo that incident was a giant red herring for the Marines and the readers, while the Strawhats were just meant to see that subtle thing (as well as letting them know he's okay).
The thing is that its absolutely impossible for people to guess where they rendevouz. So it doesn´t really matter if they figure out that it means "meet in 2Y".
If you're not a SH, you can´t possibly know where to meet, the location being in the piece of magical paper that they are holding.
Indeedy. This is why I thought interpretations like SA2Y didn't quite click. This way Luffy wouldn't have to be careful at all about anybody else seeing the letters.
You know what, the more I re-read One Piece the more a long time skip starts to make sense. Roger took a good few decades to eventually conquer the GL and reach Raftel. In fact it was only in the last part of his life that he attempted to reach that goal. And yet this is a man said to have been the strongest pirate to ever live.
Luffy and the Strawhats have been out to sea for how long? A couple of years? And yet they have already reached halfway around the GL. But now the consequences of their haste have caught up with them. They are not strong enough or mature enough to be this far along on their journey.
Then there is the ultimate goal itself, Luffy wants to be Pirate King. But so far the only clue as to how this is achieved is to reach Raftel, something no one other than Roger has achieved. Why? Because to reach Raftel one must follow a special path, one which is either impossible or extremely difficult to find off hand.
All clues lead to the Poneglyphs. Raftel being home to the Rio Poneglyph is all but confirmed from various sources including Rayleigh. But it is stated before that in order to Get to and understand the Rio Poneglyph one must first read ALL of the others and follow a prescribed path of knowledge and direction towards the end. This means that the key to reaching Raftel is to find and read the last Poneglyph which has the directions of how to get to Raftel written on it.
At this point the Strawhats have only read two / three Poneglyphs. Robin might have read others during her long exile but we dont know for sure. We also dont know how widely these are scattered around the globe or indeed how many there are. Roger may have spent all those years simply tracking them down.
So it would seem that for the Strawhats to reach Raftel is a LOOOOONG road ahead.
Timeskip here we come…....
Alright let's get cracking.
@JERK:
Oh cool, someone else who has literally never actually read Dragonball.
Name one villain who lasted over a Dragonball timeskip. Because each skip was the start of a new arc.
For definite Vegeta and Nappa. I would also argue piccilo as he did'nt die he spat out a double.
Do you even know where the timeskips fall? How many there are?
Off the top of my head a few years before the second tournament, another 3 years before the tournament with piccilo, years before the Raditz arc, another year before vegeta and nappa. I would also be inclined to say Goku in the spaceship before namek and the time in the hyperbolic chamber as although the story did'nt timeskip the characters did. Where they fall is that they powered up the a select few main characters too much and made the rest of the previously useful good guys redundant.
Fucking bullshit. You're just mimicking a line you've heard before without the actual experience of the story.
No it is'nt. The story at the start was about a young child leaving his country life and exploring the world for the first time. His opponents were regular trained humans some with machines they operated.No super strong aliens with over 20,000 ki points. It was'nt even mostly a fighting manga it was an adventure manga. The adventure and romance was gone by third tournament arc with piccilo jr. Look at what it became by the time the saiyans arrived. It killed the story, most of the originally useful main characters were subjected to cheerleading roles. I do not want the crew stepping aside every arc for luffy and zoro to take on everyone while they watch on helplessly.
How the hell would you know.
Name one character who matured over the Naruto timeskip.
Not that character development off screen is a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.
Well this is based off my personal opinion reading both stories. And the character would be main character himself. But i'm not here to defend Naruto as a great story, it is an example.
They DID quadruple their powers.
Sasuke alone was suddenly able to fight better then most of Akatsuki for crying out loud.
Who would actually be the example of thumb twiddlers you falsely accused Dragonball of.
Sasuke is a villain.And it was explained he used some kind of ninja steriods rather than bash a few rocks and spar to increase your power by 5 times.Thumb twiddlers include the saiyans and cell before the 'cell games arc'
WHAT platform!!
Naruto had even vaguer improvement platforms then Dragonball.Those arcs were garbage, not as bad as whatw e have now. But they retained nothing. Mainly because anything good about Naruto had already died by the end of Part 1.
Well that's a personal opinion, but as i said i'm not here to convince you to like the series. And i personally prefer vagueness rather than a straight forward powerchain of A>B>C>D etc. And I would like One Piece to retain what is good about the series so far rather than become a straightforward fight after fight with no exploration and little crew interaction.
*needs a cup of tea now
Y'know, as I'm reading a few posts here and there, I can basically sum up the arguments for the timeskip as "Wah Wah Dragon Ball Z".
I just want to ask one thing: What is with the hate for DBZ?
Yes, there are many, MANY parts of DBZ that are bullshit. Characters who can't keep up, characters who are outright forgotten, etc. But DBZ was still very awesome overall.
Besides, at least when DBZ did timeskips, they were at least necessary, considering either nothing happened over that time, or they were just training. Nothing we really want to see, so a timeskip is useful for storytelling.
To bring this back on-topic though, it's almost certain a timeskip is heading our way. So I must ask, what could be wrong with a DBZ-styled timeskip, given that the Straw Hats are likely going to train and find a way back to Sabaondy.
Unless people REALLY want to see that…
As you say every dragonball time skip completly changed the story. Every time the main characters multiplied thier power several times and rapidly gained parity with the bad guys who were twiddling thier thumbs i guess.
For definite Vegeta and Nappa. I would also argue piccilo as he did'nt die he spat out a double.
Yeah, for Vegeta and Nappa, they couldn't gain power since they had to travel in small ships. It was impossible for them to train under those conditions, that's why the heroes managed to fill a bit the gap. For Piccolo, he also trained during the skip and considering he was only a small child, his progress was even better than Goku's one.
In One Piece, we can be sure, the SN will make great progress, we saw in Sabaody that their level was quite similar to the Strawhat's level, so if you expect them to be strong opponents, you can be sure they will progress as much as the Strawhat. For the Yonkou and other big names, they are probably in their top-shape, it's probably impossible for them due to their age to progress anymore.
No it is'nt. The story at the start was about a young child leaving his country life and exploring the world for the first time. His opponents were regular trained humans some with machines they operated.No super strong aliens with over 20,000 ki points. It was'nt even mostly a fighting manga it was an adventure manga.
Don't compare One Piece and Dragon Ball, they are too completely different cases. Oda has nearly planned his whole story, since the beginning, he probably knew exactly how he should end the manga, and so the power level of the final opponent. Toriyama was forced to continue several times a manga , by the end of each sagas after volume 16, Goku or one of his friend was the strongest guy we know, so if he wanted to continue the story, Toriyama was forced to creat new opponents with a power surpassing by far the former villain. That's not the case with One Piece, we know the power of the big names, so after the Timeskip, Luffy's power will increase, but we know that it won't exceed those of the big names we saw.
I do not want the crew stepping aside every arc for luffy and zoro to take on everyone while they watch on helplessly.
That's why they are training… Nevertheless, we saw even the big names have members in their crew that aren't that strong. So it's not as if they wouldn't have anything to do, even if their strenght doesn't increase a lot, which I highly doubt.
And I would like One Piece to retain what is good about the series so far rather than become a straightforward fight after fight with no exploration and little crew interaction.
Hey, we had an insight of what the NW's island will look like with some SN. Do you think there will be no exploration in those islands. What was the point of Urouge's, Apoo's and probably Capone's image in the previous chapters if it wasn't to show the strangeness of NW's island. Try to analyse each image and seek what was Oda's purpose when he drew them.
Oda could give us like 3 or 4 chapters of the crew and their situations and perhaps hinting their individual progress before the reunion.
Besides, we still have to get to know how most of them will get back so that is going to be 1 or 2 chapters at least
@tsukishima: I know this may be confusing as I switched the discussion from the 'Luffy's message' thread to here as it was out of place there and you are correct in most of what you say. The original point was that somebody said they hoped the timeskip was a lot more like dragonball's than a timeskip similar to one we got with naruto. That it what i am saying is wrong. A dragonball timeskip would be totally inappropriate for this story, it would work better as one similar to Naruto's.
I'm not discussing which one is better or what story is better or wheter timeskips worked out good in dragonball. It's just if we had a timeskip like dragonball's which it concentrated on powering a select few characters rather than the whole good guy cast slowing weeding out previous important characters then it would ruin a lot of what one piece is about. Hate it or not after Naruto's timeskip the good guy cast kept thier balance and one main character(Sakura) actually got more useful at first than before the timeskip.
Gah, sorry about the italics something screwed up.
well lets say kuma is all knowing about the crew and knows sanji cooks, and kicks.
knows the franky is a cybrog and built himself
knows that chopper is animal/human and a doctor
knows that usopp needs curouge and ect. for all crewi'll be fine accepting that, but then how the hell did he know the PERFECT place for them. LIke sanji lands on an island that they are strong warriors that use thier feet and also have some secret recipe. how did he know that these people on choppers island were awesome doctors and there was great new plants there. ect. to all. I mean he just seemed to send each unique person to the most perfect place in teh entire world.
so kuma not only knows the crew better or as good as us, he also knows every island in the world perfectly as well
Well, the RA is a magical and mysterious group :ninja: Besides, Kuma was an incomplete pacifista (at that time). For all we know he could have had some kind of DBZ-styled geiger counter. I know it's too hard to imagine that Kuma did this on purpose, but it's too much of a coincidence for it to just happen.
I think the series has far too strongly disregarded time for a time skip to work. I don't think it mattered to Oda what each character's birthdays were because chances are they don't play a part in the story. Technically a few of the characters must have had their birthdays since the series started but then their ages would be off so I think the time that's passed is irrelevant.
The ages/birthdays are possibly there to gauge exactly how long the journey has been. Or how young ones kick the shit out of the older and more experienced.
–
Why the hell do we have to see them train and teleport their asses to the meeting place if we know that's what they're aiming at?
my guess is 8 month time skip
Why is 8 the magic number?
The ages/birthdays are possibly there to gauge exactly how long the journey has been.
I agreed with most of your post (though I didn't quite understand the Kuma bit, since I haven't gotten too far in Dragonball just yet), but all of the birthdays were chosen by fans, and as such their dates can't have any possible bearing on the story. If a birthday is brought up, the only significant point about it is the event in and of itself, not the date.
In other words, you can't use things like Usopp's or Nami's birthdays to tell how long the crew has been traveling. You can, however, use Luffy's to an extent, because his turning 17 was part of the story. But even that isn't "exact." You can get an estimate of years, but that's all. Unless someone points out that "Luffy's birthday is in a few months," we don't know anything except that it's been less than a year.
i think there will be a time skip but there wont be any "X months/years later" i think we are just gonna see some of the plans the crew is making to get stronger and then when we have seen all of the plans we just back to the start and see the middle point or ending of those plans,like we see sanji is gonna go fight 99 guys then we'll see the rest of the crew then we'll see Sanji again all bloody and done fighting all of them,or some of them and saying "its harder then i thought" or something like that,that's my opinion
On the other hand that could end up kind of like a filler but hopefully it'll be more like a montage!
I say no longer than a year. he'll miss out on a alot of stuff in ayears time. tey have to get stonger for the new world of cousre but I don't want it to be no major changes in their personality. The super novas that charged ahead are alrezady having probles so maybe it is best to wait.
but we got to see fishman island soon or i'm gonna lose it
I was wondering, how old is Luffy exactly? Like 17 and x months and y days.
If some1 would know this we could use basic math to figure out how long the timeskip will at least be, since this was Luffy's last adventure as a 18 year old…
But i doubt any1 knows the exact time :/
edit: i just read that the birthdays were chosen by fans or something like that so age probably doesn't have any meaning here .
@Mikan107:
Hate it or not after Naruto's timeskip the good guy cast kept thier balance and one main character(Sakura) actually got more useful at first than before the timeskip.
This is completely false. Naruto has dropped like 75% of it's pre-timeskip cast. Tell me about the adventures of all those rookies and jonin we once knew.
Sakura is as useless as ever she was.
For definite Vegeta and Nappa. I would also argue piccilo as he did'nt die he spat out a double.
Vegeta and Nappa?
Are you seriously counting that as a timeskip?
Even if you could, they were inert in space pods. Not sitting around.
And most of the training wasn't even enough. Even Goku got defeated.
Piccolo Daimou died, Piccolo being his son/reincarnation. He wasn't up to full snuff unless you seriously believe that baby he was had full power.
By the other end of the timeskip he was even stronger then Daimou ever was.
Off the top of my head a few years before the second tournament, another 3 years before the tournament with piccilo, years before the Raditz arc, another year before vegeta and nappa. I would also be inclined to say Goku in the spaceship before namek and the time in the hyperbolic chamber as although the story did'nt timeskip the characters did. Where they fall is that they powered up the a select few main characters too much and made the rest of the previously useful good guys redundant.
ahahahaha, if you're counting those as timeskips Naruto is violently guilty of the same.
No it is'nt. The story at the start was about a young child leaving his country life and exploring the world for the first time.
No it wasn't, it was about panty jokes and satire of the Saiyuki tale.
Early Dragonball was pure anarchy of jokes and the occasional fourth wall breaking. As well as a healthy dose of nonsense.
It was fun, and it was over in two volumes.
His opponents were regular trained humans some with machines they operated.
lolll at regular humans
No super strong aliens with over 20,000 ki points.
What about demons and superhuman assassins and cyborgs.
It was'nt even mostly a fighting manga it was an adventure manga.
Bullshit.
It was fighting after the second book. Dragonball from the first Budokai on was always first and foremost a martial arts comic. Adventure played a minor minor role. Whimsy remained well into early Namek unless you've forgotten how much fun Toriyama had playing with the afterlife.
The adventure and romance was gone by third tournament arc with piccilo jr. Look at what it became by the time the saiyans arrived.
Have you ever actually read though it? Have you read from book 1 right on through to 17 and kept going?
I don't buy people who act like the Saiyen arc was bad, it's an exciting continuation with high stakes drama with all the characters we loved.
If you valued "adventure" so highly you would have been bored past maybe the early Red Ribbon arc, long before Raditz shows up.
What the matter with you? Are you trying to look sophisticated because "huh huh i don't enjoy martial arts". Toriyama was a huge fan of Hong Kong action films. Fighting is the spirit of Dragonball.
It killed the story, most of the originally useful main characters were subjected to cheerleading roles. I do not want the crew stepping aside every arc for luffy and zoro to take on everyone while they watch on helplessly.
Saiyen arc didn't do this. Goku lost his fight like practically everyone else. A combination of Yajerobe, Kuririn, and Gohan defeated Vegeta. Yajerfuckingrobe.
Well this is based off my personal opinion reading both stories. And the character would be main character himself. But i'm not here to defend Naruto as a great story, it is an example.
Both of trash, and half the thing you're saying is bad.
Sasuke is a villain.
He should be shouldn't he.
Too bad Kishimoto's incompetent fanboyism has made him a co-star anti-hero whom we follow almost as much as Naruto.
Naruto whom refuses to treat him like a villain, and just like a misguided friend.
And it was explained he used some kind of ninja steriods rather than bash a few rocks and spar to increase your power by 5 times.Thumb twiddlers include the saiyans and cell before the 'cell games arc'
The Saiyens were in fucking pods. What would you have them do, flex their thumbs?
It wouldn't make the remotest sense to have them train in the first place, they had no idea there would be enemies worthy enough on Earth. And there pretty much weren't.
I'm not defending anything past Namek.
Well that's a personal opinion, but as i said i'm not here to convince you to like the series. And i personally prefer vagueness rather than a straight forward powerchain of A>B>C>D etc.
By vagueness I mean "pretty much literally nothing said at all".
Meaning you prefer fucking powerups out of the blue with little to no explanation.
Which is fucking retarded and ALREADY not what Oda's doing given how he's showing us what the Strawhats will be spending their timeskip doing.
Unexplained powering up over breaks is terrible writing and you'd have to be a moron to want or like that.
And I would like One Piece to retain what is good about the series so far rather than become a straightforward fight after fight with no exploration and little crew interaction.
So Naruto?
@JERK:
This is completely false. Naruto has dropped like 75% of it's pre-timeskip cast. Tell me about the adventures of all those rookies and jonin we once knew.
Sakura is as useless as ever she was.Vegeta and Nappa?
Are you seriously counting that as a timeskip?
Even if you could, they were inert in space pods. Not sitting around.
And most of the training wasn't even enough. Even Goku got defeated.Piccolo Daimou died, Piccolo being his son/reincarnation. He wasn't up to full snuff unless you seriously believe that baby he was had full power.
By the other end of the timeskip he was even stronger then Daimou ever was.ahahahaha, if you're counting those as timeskips Naruto is violently guilty of the same.
No it wasn't, it was about panty jokes and satire of the Saiyuki tale.
Early Dragonball was pure anarchy of jokes and the occasional fourth wall breaking. As well as a healthy dose of nonsense.
It was fun, and it was over in two volumes.lolll at regular humans
What about demons and superhuman assassins and cyborgs.
Bullshit.
It was fighting after the second book. Dragonball from the first Budokai on was always first and foremost a martial arts comic. Adventure played a minor minor role. Whimsy remained well into early Namek unless you've forgotten how much fun Toriyama had playing with the afterlife.Have you ever actually read though it? Have you read from book 1 right on through to 17 and kept going?
I don't buy people who act like the Saiyen arc was bad, it's an exciting continuation with high stakes drama with all the characters we loved.
If you valued "adventure" so highly you would have been bored past maybe the early Red Ribbon arc, long before Raditz shows up.What the matter with you? Are you trying to look sophisticated because "huh huh i don't enjoy martial arts". Toriyama was a huge fan of Hong Kong action films. Fighting is the spirit of Dragonball.
Saiyen arc didn't do this. Goku lost his fight like practically everyone else. A combination of Yajerobe, Kuririn, and Gohan defeated Vegeta. Yajerfuckingrobe.
Both of trash, and half the thing you're saying is bad.
He should be shouldn't he.
Too bad Kishimoto's incompetent fanboyism has made him a co-star anti-hero whom we follow almost as much as Naruto.
Naruto whom refuses to treat him like a villain, and just like a misguided friend.The Saiyens were in fucking pods. What would you have them do, flex their thumbs?
It wouldn't make the remotest sense to have them train in the first place, they had no idea there would be enemies worthy enough on Earth. And there pretty much weren't.I'm not defending anything past Namek.
By vagueness I mean "pretty much literally nothing said at all".
Meaning you prefer fucking powerups out of the blue with little to no explanation.Which is fucking retarded and ALREADY not what Oda's doing given how he's showing us what the Strawhats will be spending their timeskip doing.
Unexplained powering up over breaks is terrible writing and you'd have to be a moron to want or like that.
So Naruto?
Woah that's long. And those are a lot of points on explaining why Dragonball made sense as a series and why Naruto is'nt as good as a series as Dragonball.
It's just a pity that wheter or not each series is good or wheter the timeskips worked out is totally irrelevant to what i was saying.
If you read my first post which started this discussion i was replying to people who were basicially saying Naruto's is shit Dragonball is good i hope One piece does one like Dragonball's.
It is not black and white like that.I am saying that the type of timeskip Naruto had would be a lot more suited and work out better than the types of timeskips Dragonball had.
It's simple really -You have A) the 'Dragonball type' skip- where the characters hit a wall, timeskip to overcome that wall triples the power and beat enemies. Then timeskip again triples power and beat the stronger enemies for the next arc. Then timeskip again to beat the stronger enemies in the next arc. Every saga was proceeded by a timeskip.
Or you have B) the 'Naruto type' timeskip- where the character hit a wall, timeskipped and then after the skip overcomes that wall and gradually builds up power as the series goes on without a timeskip.
You tell me which one is more approriate for One Piece.
Which was my main point which i used the whole first post to explain
In short i would much rather a 'Naruto timeskip' to a 'Dragonball timeskip'
I'm not raving about dragonball being shit and only stupid fan boys like it and i'm not having a Naruto vs Dragonball argument. I don't give a toss wheter you or anyone else likes each series. And it's not important to what happens in this series. Just because something worked out in one series and something did'nt work out in another does'nt mean the idea from the bad one won't work out in One Piece.
To use a clear example for anyone hung up about this, take 3 soccer teams for example. Team A is awesome and uses a 4-4-2 system, team B is terrible and uses a 4-5-1 system. That does'nt mean the 4-5-1 system won't work out better for team C than than the 4-4-2 system.
Read and understand the points and context of the posts before you bull in with your ranting of people not misunderstanding dragonball.
And just for the record you mentioned 3 times i have'nt read the series and other people were telling me this. I did read it. The audicity of informed people not sharing your opinions:getlost:
If you read my first post which started this discussion i was replying to people who were basicially saying Naruto's is shit Dragonball is good i hope One piece does one like Dragonball's.
You're reasoning you gave to rebut this made no sense because Naruto was guilty of half of what you said.
While you honed in on stuff in critiquing Dragonball that do not whatsoever characterize DB's timeskip. TWIDDLIN VILLAINS for instance was garbage, as was LOSIN MAGIC.
It's simple really -You have A) the 'Dragonball type' skip- where the characters hit a wall, timeskip to overcome that wall triples the power and beat enemies.
This in no way characterizes ANY Dragonball timeskip.
Aside from the heavily arguable barely even a timeskip Saiyen saga one, none of the timeskips are like this.
Then timeskip again triples power and beat the stronger enemies for the next arc. Then timeskip again to beat the stronger enemies in the next arc. Every saga was proceeded by a timeskip.
Wrong.
Intro-21st Budokai-Red Ribbon-Baba
22nd Budokai-Piccolo
23rd Budokai
Saiyen-Namek
Cell
Boo
The only skip to have a known foe on one end and on the other is the second one, and Piccolo we know trained as well so it doesn't even work into what you say.
Almost every single one of these has the hero being too weak and suddenly facing off against a big foe out of nowhere. If what you say is true then there wouldn't be all the in-arc training there always is.
They wouldn't have trouble against Roshi, Taopipi, Tenshinhan, Piccolo Daimou, Raditz, Vegeta, Freeza, Android 18, 17, Cell, or Boo.
Or you have B) the 'Naruto type' timeskip- where the character hit a wall, timeskipped and then after the skip overcomes that wall and gradually builds up power as the series goes on without a timeskip.
Naruto's ridiculously stupid power jumps would be more plausible as timeskips then the SINGLE TRAINING SESSION boosts they usually are.
And unlike Dragonball Naruto is a series like One Piece with (or which had) very careful progressive growth sense. It was a Hero's Journey story, which should damn well make good use of growth.
Look at it this way. Naruto Part 1 was A New Hope, and Part 2 has proved to be Return of the Jedi.
There was no Empire Strikes Back.
You tell me which one is more approriate for One Piece.
Dragonballs.
Naruto's was an utter disaster.
Which was my main point which i used the whole first post to explain I'm not raving about dragonball being shit and only stupid fan boys like it and i'm not having a Naruto vs Dragonball argument. I don't give a toss wheter you or anyone else likes each series. And it's not important to what happens in this series. Just because something worked out in one series and something did'nt work out in another does'nt mean the idea from the bad one won't work out in One Piece.
Naruto's idea was bad. Plain bad. Do you want the post-timeskip to have Luffy and company suddenly taking down Shichibukai and Admirals left and right with like every arc?
Oda's smarter then that, the Supernovas are the middle men between those levels that he'll have the Strawhats deal with.
Naruto leaped from the First Act to the Third. NO series should ever do anything like that.
If you dont think there will be a time skip by now iWould like to be the first to tell you you are a Idiot.
Maki707 does your knowledge of Dragonball come from watching the old dub.
@JERK:
You're reasoning you gave to rebut this made no sense because Naruto was guilty of half of what you said.
While you honed in on stuff in critiquing Dragonball that do not whatsoever characterize DB's timeskip. TWIDDLIN VILLAINS for instance was garbage, as was LOSIN MAGIC.
Yes Naruto's had faults the same way Dragonball's did. Some of them the same. But the basic idea behind naruto's is more suitable than the basic idea behind Dragonball's. Of course One Piece is going to have it's own twist.
Fine I'll take back the 'twiddlin villains' comment.
I am not taking back what i say about the series losing magic and losing it's original idea.The first arc is not even close to being similar to the buu and cell sagas. The story completely changed through the timeskips. That is not even arguable.
This in no way characterizes ANY Dragonball timeskip.
Aside from the heavily arguable barely even a timeskip Saiyen saga one, none of the timeskips are like this.
Characters train, afterwards are several times stronger. Beats enemies they would not of been able to beat in the last saga.Every timeskip.
Wrong.
Intro-21st Budokai-Red Ribbon-Baba
22nd Budokai-Piccolo
23rd Budokai
Saiyen-Namek
Cell
Boo
Yes they are all the sagas, and there was a timeskip before all of them.
The only skip to have a known foe on one end and on the other is the second one, and Piccolo we know trained as well so it doesn't even work into what you say.
Almost every single one of these has the hero being too weak and suddenly facing off against a big foe out of nowhere. If what you say is true then there wouldn't be all the in-arc training there always is.
They wouldn't have trouble against Roshi, Taopipi, Tenshinhan, Piccolo Daimou, Raditz, Vegeta, Freeza, Android 18, 17, Cell, or Boo.
Well up to and including the saiyan arc there was only in-training arc i can remember. Where Goku and Krillin trained with Roshi.
All that did'nt start until Namek really. And even for the Saiyan-Namek saga and after there was a timeskip before each saga that made the characters more powerful initially. Timeskips allowed the characters to deal with the first fights of each saga which were a step up from previous sagas, if not the main villain of each saga. Think say, Vegeta overpowering the first 2 androids, or Piccilo easily disposing of those little green monsters Nappa had.
Naruto's ridiculously stupid power jumps would be more plausible as timeskips then the SINGLE TRAINING SESSION boosts they usually are.
And unlike Dragonball Naruto is a series like One Piece with (or which had) very careful progressive growth sense. It was a Hero's Journey story, which should damn well make good use of growth.
Look at it this way. Naruto Part 1 was A New Hope, and Part 2 has proved to be Return of the Jedi.
There was no Empire Strikes Back.Dragonballs.
Naruto's was an utter disaster.
Do you realise what you are arguing here? For example the stroy should be after this time skip the SH's fight I dunno, say the SN's. After that there is another time skip and they face say the Vice-Admirals. Then another timeskip and they face the yonkous. Like it or not that is what Dragonball did. It timeskipped before every saga and the introduction of enemies of an advanced level. You seem hung up on wheter or not the villains were in the story before and after the timeskip.
What Naruto did was timeskip once and have the main character over the story build up his power in the one time period to face the enemies of a higher level. So One piece would timeskip once the SH's keep facing some new world baddies and gradually build up to strength of facing the cream of the cream.
But hey, if you prefer the first one that's your prerogative. I'm not telling you not to. I would rather the second.
Naruto's idea was bad. Plain bad. Do you want the post-timeskip to have Luffy and company suddenly taking down Shichibukai and Admirals left and right with like every arc?
Oda's smarter then that, the Supernovas are the middle men between those levels that he'll have the Strawhats deal with.
Naruto leaped from the First Act to the Third. NO series should ever do anything like that.
That's not the idea that is the execution of it. The idea was one timeskip, get over barrier, start gradually powering up through the story. Just because Naruto jumped too far in this timeskip does'nt make the whole idea worthless.
I am not taking back what i say about the series losing magic and losing it's original idea.The first arc is not even close to being similar to the buu and cell sagas. The story completely changed through the timeskips. That is not even arguable.
The first arc was different from the Red Ribbon Army thing, Piccolo Sr., and Piccolo Jr.
I don't know if your memories are messed up but DB stopped being a gag comic long before Cell or even Piccolo Sr.
The first arc was different from the Red Ribbon Army thing, Piccolo Sr., and Piccolo Jr.
I don't know if your memories are messed up but DB stopped being a gag comic long before Cell or even Piccolo Sr.
It's not so much the gags as the adventure part. Goku was still travelling, exploring the world meeting new people, exploring new towns etc. and the series had a sense of wonder all the way up to piccilo Jr. arc. After that the introduction of flying everywhere fast was introduced(I know he had the cloud before but he still explored with it) and the characters simply went from point A to B to fight villains. The Namek arc was an exception with Gohan and Krillain and Bulma exlporing namek
Yes Naruto's had faults the same way Dragonball's did. Some of them the same. But the basic idea behind naruto's is more suitable than the basic idea behind Dragonball's. Of course One Piece is going to have it's own twist.
Frankly neither of them fit One Piece.
People were not speaking in the technical sense, they were speaking of strictly good and bad,
Fine I'll take back the 'twiddlin villains' comment.
I am not taking back what i say about the series losing magic and losing it's original idea.The first arc is not even close to being similar to the buu and cell sagas. The story completely changed through the timeskips. That is not even arguable.
The magic changed to a different sort. Personality and charm remained. Cell and Boo were bad. Cell in particular due to lacking that personality and charm (Mr. Satan being an attempt at reversing those fortunes).
Characters train, afterwards are several times stronger. Beats enemies they would not of been able to beat in the last saga.Every timeskip.
If they even train over them it's rarely to beat an enemy (Goku ran around the world out of pure dedication to being stronger for instance).
And in no case does it solve the problem.
There are only two like this, the second one and the fourth.
And both, particularly the fourth are miles and miles from solving problems.
Yes they are all the sagas, and there was a timeskip before all of them.
Wrong. Each line there is a period of time.
Well up to and including the saiyan arc there was only in-training arc i can remember. Where Goku and Krillin trained with Roshi.
Did you forget completely about Karin Tower? TWICE it was used for in arc training.
I mean what your saying is patently ridiculous.
Without in arc training how the hell did Goku beat Taopipi and Daimou?
All that did'nt start until Namek really.
Roshi, two Karin Tower sessions, and the Afterlife training with Kaio.
And even for the Saiyan-Namek saga and after there was a timeskip before each saga that made the characters more powerful initially. Timeskips allowed the characters to deal with the first fights of each saga which were a step up from previous sagas, if not the main villain of each saga. Think say, Vegeta overpowering the first 2 androids, or Piccilo easily disposing of those little green monsters Nappa had.
And these skirmishes mattered little if at all.
The power boosts between (again counting the time they waited for the Saiyens is just innacurate), did not solve and were not meant to solve the problem of super foes.
Do you realise what you are arguing here? For example the stroy should be after this time skip the SH's fight I dunno, say the SN's. After that there is another time skip and they face say the Vice-Admirals. Then another timeskip and they face the yonkous. Like it or not that is what Dragonball did.
Again, it didn't.
The idea of reaching a higher level, but still needing improvement to reach the super highers is Dragonballish enough.
I'm not saying Dragonball fits One Piece to the letter. You gave me an either or choice, don't complain about "what I'm arguing" when I'm making a choice between two things very different from OP.
It timeskipped before every saga and the introduction of enemies of an advanced level. You seem hung up on wheter or not the villains were in the story before and after the timeskip.
Which is another reason Dragonball doesn't fit OP. It was episodic in arc nature. One Piece keeps one continous world arc going.
Naruto is similar in this, but again since it's timeskip was so terrible why would I ever pick that for One Piece.
What Naruto did was timeskip once and have the main character over the story build up his power in the one time period to face the enemies of a higher level.
Naruto and Sakura were literally right away battling those highest ups.
With help maybe, but it was still ridiculous. And with no attention to gradual growth whatsoever Kishimoto has since made Naruto a world higher up himself.
Sasuke is even worse.
Or there's even Shikamaru.
At no point were Akatsuki a distant goal except in part 1 when they were brushing off Jounins.
So One piece would timeskip once the SH's keep facing some new world baddies and gradually build up to strength of facing the cream of the cream.
Naruto didn't do this.
But hey, if you prefer the first one that's your prerogative. I'm not telling you not to. I would rather the second.
The second didn't happened in Naruto.
So you're entire point about complaining when people say they don't want a Naruto timeskip is completely unfunctional.
That's not the idea that is the execution of it.
Execution is not the problem when Kishi has practically zero enemies who aren't higher ups in Part 2.
That's the entire reason I brought up the Supernovas. Because Kishi just plain did not have this aspect in Naruto. Which is a structural issue. Beyond execution there was something fundamentally missing from Naruto's equation.
Kishi didn't have his Boba Fett.
Since everyone is so eager on discussing Dragonball and how its timeskip was superiour and whatnot, I should first say I don't give a flying fuck about Dragonball.Never have, never will.BUT.
It irritates even me that idiots are even thinking of comparing Naruto to Dragonball or One Piece in any way.
Naruto is an example of how you are NOT supposed to do a timeskip.Why the fuck is a garbage manga like it even featured in the discussion?
On to the main topic - Yes, I think there will be a timeskip, because I am sure Luffy does not at all want his crewmates to die in the first fight in the New World.
They are far too weak to even think of entering.
The timeskip is needed and the moment the Straw Hats' locations were discovered I was nearly sure there is going to be one.
It will obviously be big, two years, to be precise.
Why the fuck would it be a "timeskip" if it's a few months? It would be pointless.
Since the Straw Hats landed on islands which are especially accustomized to their abilities (figuratively speaking - Kudos, Kuma.), I am pretty sure they will make enormous progress.
I'm thinking Luffy will focus on mastering his Haoushoku Haki wth the help of Boa, which, of course, certainly is no small feat to accomplish.
Oda has shown us enough - both the places where the SHs will train and the people that will guide/help them.I don't think flashback chapters are needed.
The 16 rings, at least for me, represent two years.(Hence the two year timeskip.)
I haven't seen what his tattoo says, but if it actually does say "SA2Y", then it only confirms what I think.
I agree with Watanuki eve though i dont want there to be a time skip,it just makes sense
I don't see the point about having all this Naruto/dragonball timeskip talk (I never read dragonball, watched the anime though) if what we might see is a "One Piece Time skip" Oda original. If he does do it pretty sure it won't be anything like we seen before, so far it's showing real good if aimed for a time skip ofcourse.
On Topic I still have mix feelings about wanting a skip or not but I favor more on the time skip side more or less. I can see it happening easily now with all that has occurred in the story, to me as long we don't get a f*cking training arc I'll be satisfy with time-skip or not. Oda been showing their developments without training just through experienced quite well (exception of Zoro but that's his character/personality) and I hope he keeps it that way. Like one piece to stay based off it's adventures and not focused more like a battle manga that just uses the same thing for it's conclusion every time (rasengan! Getsusangetsu!). Well that's my intake on the matter.
The problem with Naruto is not the time skip per se, it's just that kishi sucks! Although he faciltated his task to a maximum. Akatsuki: We'll lay low for and do nothing till the end of the timeskip. 8s. Kage of sand dies - oh we need new kage - the sand guy naruto knows is available. etc etc…
Dragonball also didn't have big worldly things happening inbetween the timeskips.
One piece's Time skip will be completely different, because we do not only follow our heroes, but also the whole world's affairs and so the time skip will have to take all that into account.
little ps: I won't be surpised if Oda does another timeskip in the future.
Time skips are not bad as a rule. In my experience, their quality depends on several things: length of time skipped, material that was skipped, and how extreme the change is from before to after. If there is a time skip, a short one that just glosses over their time on their islands wouldn't be horrible.
Zephos, you've spent more time explaining what a time skip is rather than more discussion about why you think it would happen, signs of it happening, why it's a good thing/needed, etc.
Then all this Naruto did it so it's bad and what really appears to be ppl who've only watched the DBZ anime and not read the manga.
I dunno man just seems like a lot to deal with on top of other threads.
I live a hard life.
A hard life of conflict.
A hard life of conflict….
…with no time for friends. So that when it's done, only our enemies leave roses. Violent lives, ending violently. Captain Carter, Aldrich, Zephos... we never die in bed. Not allowed. Something in our personalities perhaps? Some animal urge to fight and struggle, making us what we are? Unimportant, We do what we have to do. Others bury their heads between the swollen teats of indulgence and gratification, piglets squirming beneath a sow for shelter… But there is no shelter… and the future is bearing down like an express train.
discussion about why you think it would happen, signs of it happening, why it's a good thing/needed, etc.
I thought a timeskip's obvious now.
Forum Arguements!
You all win 276 intenets
Since everyone is so eager on discussing Dragonball and how its timeskip was superiour and whatnot, I should first say I don't give a flying fuck about Dragonball.Never have, never will.BUT.
It irritates even me that idiots are even thinking of comparing Naruto to Dragonball or One Piece in any way.
Fine then.
We'll discuss how Gurren Lagann's time skip was superior.
Or Berserk's.
@Sea:
I thought a timeskip's obvious now.
Obvious is not a word to use with One Piece. There are hints that a time skip will happen, hints time may just be quicken, hints of a training arc, lots of hints! Never anything that is a safe bet with this manga. I would put money on a time skip or the flow of time being increased, but I (and so many others) have been wrong before.
Obvious is not a word to use with One Piece. There are hints that a time skip will happen, hints time may just be quicken, hints of a training arc, lots of hints! Never anything that is a safe bet with this manga. I would put money on a time skip or the flow of time being increased, but I (and so many others) have been wrong before.
Sure it is possible that we will never get a x amount of time later with the end results of their training being the only thing we see. It might be cool for us to have chapters that check in on the progress of the strawhats after a couple of weeks, months etc… depending on the total lenght of the time they are going to be training for.
@AMS:
Sure it is possible that we will never get a x amount of time later with the end results of their training being the only thing we see. It might be cool for us to have chapters that check in on the progress of the strawhats after a couple of weeks, months etc… depending on the total lenght of the time they are going to be training for.
Personally, I would rather see the flow of time increased than a time skip, see the overall progression of their training/research/battles/Perona-Arguing/etc. I think it's more likely, since Oda seems to be focusing on the effects of the war on non-Strawhats. Maybe see time go by in months in just three or four chapters, see the stage get set for the Strawhat's return (not everything of course, just see the beginning of what they will encounter). All the while seeing the instances where the crew reach a new milestone in their endeavors.
Obvious is not a word to use with One Piece.
Yes it is. Since Oda's storytelling isn't complicated and he foreshadows things darkly.
@Sea:
I thought a timeskip's obvious now.
I'm talking about from since this thread started not recently.
You could argue a forthcoming time skip was obvious since the crew got defeated in SA. Thing is most of the posters you see now went from I don't like time skips because of Naruto and that's why One Piece won't have one to I deep down know a time skip is inevitable but I'll still post w/e distaste I have for time skips based off Naruto. Completely ignoring that time skips and how they are used are based off of the author of the work not the literary device itself. There is no curse on time skips where any work of fiction is doomed when it is used no matter how many manga a person's happened to read where they did not like it or felt it jumped the shark after the time skip. Doesn't matter if it's 20th Century Boys, Billy Bat, 666 Satan or Naruto.
The only substantial argument a person could have is if Oda had a previous work where he used a time skip and all types of failed happened with it but even then it'd have no bearing on time skips as a literary device.
Timeskip gonna happen.
and we shouldn't forget the already ridiculous growth of the SH - they are still rookies which is somewhat a hint that the story till now was shorter than a year and now compare the Alvida Luffy to todays Luffy. The SHs always trained en route and therefore i would rather like to see a power jump like in between the W7/EL Arc than a power jump like in Naruto or DB - they've already (while Luffy was fighting the world) learned a heap of new techniques, now give them another week or month and they will be ready to roll…
Probably more of a stupid theory -
I'm pro time-skip, but logistics-wise am doubtful whether Oda would commit to one - as it would likely mean a permanent aesthetic change in his leading characters.
Don't get me wrong, I know we've seen Vivi, Coby and Helemppo change through time but the SH's….not so much. But I still think that a change of this magnitude would = a change in SH's appearance.... and in terms of RL impact, do you really think the sponsor's would go for a 'more grown-up' looking Chopper design for instance??
Then again, now that we've confirmed Bonney isn't just a fodder-fruit - we could have a 'fake out' time-skip..They have the skip and 'change' physically...but then Bonney gets involved......
Oda has full control of how much he changes or doesn't change their designs. He'll do exactly whatever satisfies himself with them. I doubt Oda gets bothered by editors much at all considering how obscenely rich he makes Shueisha and Jump.
Also that Bonney idea is fucking stupid.
Yeah of course aesthetic changes will occur. Although I don't think big changes will be done, just little details. Just compare departing Ace to 3-years later Ace and you'll understand the chamge. It already started with Luffy's Tattoo.
We still don't know if that was actually a tattoo or an armband
@JERK:
Oda has full control of how much he changes or doesn't change their designs. He'll do exactly whatever satisfies himself with them. I doubt Oda gets bothered by editors much at all considering how obscenely rich he makes Shueisha and Jump.
Also that Bonney idea is fucking stupid.
Pretty much on the mark, 1 of the SBS someone ask him why he doesn't ask for any design's/ideas. He said he doesn't like to use other peoples ideas, he doesn't even like or listen to his editor for ideas. Because if he takes idea from the editor and fails he blames the editor but if he uses his own idea and fails its his failure.