@Sir:
That panel with Akainu after they mention those lines doesn't just seem like someone who is on a "victory high".
Agree to disagree.
Why is that? If we judge everyone by their own moral compass, then we can't say there is any good or evil at all
I've already said I'm not judging but looking at it from the absolute justice p.o.v. Understanding why ppl do things is apart of figuring out who's good and bad/evil.
What could it possibly be? At the very worst, it would reveal something bad about the World Government's history and shake people's faith in it, but if that's all, then why is that so horrible? If they did something so horrible that it would destroy their power if it were ever found out, why do they deserve to say they are justice and "holy"? I don't think that the government and Akainu are tyrants - they probably want to keep the history from coming out because they think if they lost their power the world would be thrown into chaos - but even if that's true, that doesn't excuse their actions.
I'm not really gonna speculate about what the WG is trying to prevent from being revealed. All I will say is from the way see it w/e is being kept secret is important enough for them to make it crime to investigate it and kill for those breaking that law. Discussing whether a law is just or not is a completely different discussion from whether the ppl making the laws or the ppl who work for the making laws are good or evil.
How can you say it would only be more harmful? This is One Piece, after all. It may be dark at times, but it's not like Hokuto no Ken or something. I think that Akainu is just in the wrong manga. He would still be evil in some really dark manga, but somewhere else, his methods might fit the world more.
I'm pretty sure I already brought up the example don't see why you can't connect the two. PPL like Coby coming in the way yelling spare the pirates is more harmful than helpful.0
In the end, we all know that Akainu will be proven wrong and Coby will be proven right.
No we don't. as long as there is a need for justice the Akainu's of the world will always exist. One piece isn't a manga about Coby on his journey to become a great marine and how he proves his way of justice is the right one.
The scholars were never shown as bad people at all.
There's a lot of criminals that don't appear as bad ppl, they're called con men.
Clover even gave that big speech about how he only wants to help humanity and how everyone should learn their past
Hitler thought he was helping humanity too. A lot of guys who were clearly wrong thought they were doing good. You can have the best intentions and they can all end up fucking everyone over. Sometimes ppl need to be ignorant about certain things in all honestly but that's just one view
- Oda was definitely not saying that he was wrong.
In your opinion.
They may have broken a law and become criminals, but breaking laws doesn't make them worthy of being executed.
That's dependent on what they know about why the law shouldn't be broken. They're questionable laws in the real world but you gotta find out the reason for why they are laws to decide if they're necessary or not.
They were the real innocent people that should have been defended. Robin did become a criminal as the government feared, but only because the government destroyed her home.
Sounds like you should be blaming Clover and her moms for the way she ended up.
I never put thought into it until I realized that this is what you were arguing, but I still don't think it's just thirst for victory. After I first read that chapter, I guess what I assumed it was was a combination of both - the Marines were on a battle high and they didn't care what happened to their wounded as long as they got to kill off the rest of the pirates for justice, which seems like bloodlust to me. Akainu certainly has a deep and probably personal hatred for evil, so I don't think he gets no enjoyment out of destroying pirates.
I still haven't seen enough from Akainu to say he gets enjoyment. Yeah he got loud and pissed off but I'm not seeing bloodlust.
I don't think he was trying to boost the morale of his troops when he was talking to Whitebeard's commanders or Ace and Luffy because it didn't look like he had people right there with him.
I didn't say he was then. When he said it then he was letting them know why they(Luffy & Ace) needed to die.
I think his hatred of pirates is different from that of your average marine.
Yeah maybe he has a tragic past due to pirates.
I never said he was supposed to be unlikeable. I mean that he has always been portrayed in a negative light by Oda.
Don't confuse negative for strict, stern, serious, extreme, violent, etc.
I don't think the readers are supposed to see Akainu as someone who is really on the side of justice, and that's saying something when we are supposed to see the Marines as the good guys.
He's suppose to be seen as one specific type of justice. No compromises and probably to extreme for the everyday person with morals.
Oda has never made Akainu look like anything but a man who will do anything to destroy what he considers evil, and he doesn't give us reason to agree with Akainu's definition of evil. He is a realistic character, but that's not an argument in his favor.
Determination and a conviction to thwart evil are pretty apparent in Akainu's character. You just choose not to see it positively or a pro and not a con.
That's assuming that the victors deserve to decide what's right and wrong. You can't say that all authority is just.
And who decides that? Cuz from the world we live in that's how it's been for a quite long time. The only thing that's changed is the arena ppl choose to fight for what they think is right and yet war is always an option to prove that.
The father of a young lady I know was a professor of a Chinese university. From their city, he accompanied some of his students to Tiananmen Square in 1989, fully knowing that open protests and unauthorized gatherings were against the law.
The professor proved himself to be both more experienced and cautious than the youths he chaperoned. Before things escalated, he bought return tickets for all the kids and himself, and made all of them write apology letters to the university and government. Now he has long given up on his professorship and a sea away from home.
At that time, the country went through large internal turmoil. The party had just changed leaders by force. Both country+government control were not as stable as the leading party wished. Revolutions have resulted in the past due to student action in China. The country could not handle another large social unrest or worse, the possibility of civil war. Some of the protesters were unruly. They were given multiple warnings. The government's spin was that it wished to maintain control and avoid large scale internal conflict, which would lead to bloodshed.
Would you say what happened was for harmony, security, and a necessary evil?
This is an example of ppl who recently gain power trying to keep that power. Keep in mind people are corruptible so if those in power didn't deeply believe the changes they made were for the greater good of the ppl and for peace then no it wasn't for harmony, security, etc. but if they did then to them they probably were gonna do what's right.