I just noticed this cover…
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume25.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4824
it strikes me that that's not the kind of thing you'd see on a bible in our world normally. Possibility of a worldwide religion?
I was thinking that maybe the bible, if different from this worlds, could have in it's stories some clue to the true history.
We had a thread about religion in one piece a couple of days ago….
it strikes me that that's not the kind of thing you'd see on a bible in our world normally. Possibility of a worldwide religion?
Considering that it is somewhat similar to a Bible we see in the Norland flashback, it might be a religion from North Blue. It might even be the national religion of Lyneel itself and Bear is simply from there.
We haven't seen enough instances of it outside of those occasions to suggest that it's a worldwide or even a common religion.
Complicating things since 2009.
Considering that it is somewhat similar to a Bible we see in the Norland flashback, it might be a religion from North Blue. It might even be the national religion of Lyneel itself and Bear is simply from there.
We haven't seen enough instances of it outside of those occasions to suggest that it's a worldwide or even a common religion.
What's Lyneel? :X
The kingdom Norland was from.
It's also a kick in the butt, Lol. =O
But ya, we don't know enough about it.
I woukldn't be suprised if some of the Skypedian residents are involved in this "religion". On the corner of the bible you see some wings, and that could easilly been a Skypedian resident straying down to the Blue Sea. A resident of the Blue Sea would interpet the Skypedian as an angel.
But the rest of the possible believers lack these wings.. And the Skypeians followed the "God" complex religion where the leader was God (Gan Fall). So I can't see that as it would be blasphemy (let's not turn this isnto Christianity killers attacking Native Americans :/)
However that picture is interesting, it looks like a female to me, perhaps a virgin mary character? Anyone know of a good website with medieval gothic art? I'd be interested to see if there are any icons/book covers portraying the Virgin Mary in heaven.
Or better yet what century did Christianity come to Japan? They left literature and missionaries there.. I wonder if that's what the original Bibles in Japan looked like when they first brought the religion there and it's now in some museum or something. (which is where Oda got the insparation)
I'm not sure exactly when the Jesuits brought Christianity to Japan, but as I recall the Christians were martyred during the Tokugawa Shogunate sometime after Ieyasu's death. Or was it during Nobunaga's reign? Hmm..
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
Enel's ship, aka Maximum also resemble Noah's arc which brings people to the so called "New World"
@_Meh_:
I'm not sure exactly when the Jesuits brought Christianity to Japan, but as I recall the Christians were martyred during the Tokugawa Shogunate sometime after Ieyasu's death. Or was it during Nobunaga's reign? Hmm..
Wasn't it in the 1500s or so? The Dutch were the only nation that was allowed to trade with Japan for a couple of centuries after they banned Christianity until Perry showed up. Christianity had a reasonable foothold before it was banned, so it had probably been introduced at least a few decades before.
donflamingo's hairstyle in that page is exactly the same as zoro's…maybe's he's a long lost brother of Zoro?
@_Meh_:
I'm not sure exactly when the Jesuits brought Christianity to Japan, but as I recall the Christians were martyred during the Tokugawa Shogunate sometime after Ieyasu's death. Or was it during Nobunaga's reign? Hmm..
If I'm not mistaken during the arrival of Portuguese to Japan and the settling of a trade point was the first touch of Japan with Christianity
Here it is
After merchants had opened the way, the first missionary, Francis Xavier, arrived in 1549 and the Christian century began
I also think the 1st bible was a latim exemplar offered to the Japanese Emperor althought I'm not really sure about it
Considering that it is somewhat similar to a Bible we see in the Norland flashback, it might be a religion from North Blue. It might even be the national religion of Lyneel itself and Bear is simply from there.
It's Lvneel pronounced Loobneel.
I doubt the cover of the Bible is important. Oda didn't think it was important enough to draw the same cover twice when Bartholomew was holding it.
What are the odds that bible ate a devil fruit?
It's Lvneel pronounced Loobneel.
Greg? The hell?
Anyway, I've seen it both ways so I usually used Lyneel. A quick glance at Norland's ship reveals that it is Lvneel; that's a pretty archaic use of V there to represent the 'oo' sound. W is more commonly used for that today.
I doubt the cover of the Bible is important. Oda didn't think it was important enough to draw the same cover twice when Bartholomew was holding it.
The central elements of the two images are pretty similar, it's just that the rays of light emanating from the central figure have been altered. I chalk that up to Oda deciding that he didn't like the way it looked originally more than anything else.
The Bible in Lvneel has the same text across the top and appears to have a robed figure on the cover. From things like Brag Men, we know that Oda loves tossing in small jokes like that so it's a reasonable bet that they're similar.
Greg? The hell?
points to sig
Anyway, I've seen it both ways so I usually used Lyneel. A quick glance at Norland's ship reveals that it is Lvneel; that's a pretty archaic use of V there to represent the 'oo' sound. W is more commonly used for that today.
I've only seen Lvneel in the manga. I remember the Enies Lobby spelling debate and it came down to what the manga thankfully provided. Plus the kana spelling is phoenetically 'Loobneel' in English (not official dictionary pronounciation there ^_^;) with a clear b/v sound. I used to incorrectly call it Luvneel myself.
The Bible in Lvneel has the same text across the top and appears to have a robed figure on the cover. From things like Brag Men, we know that Oda loves tossing in small jokes like that so it's a reasonable bet that they're similar.
But it still has two entirely different covers on pages 145 and 150 of Vol. 234
I've gone through Oda's mistakes and it's clear when he's being lazy or just plain doesn't care about something. Even some squiggles or lines or something but no idication of that whatsoever.
NOT to say it couldn't play a large part in the story because it very well may be so, but it doesn't seem that he really cares about it all that much….at least not when he introduced it.
I mean considering he took the time to make some of the Marines in that room the same fellows we saw waaaaaaay back when Luffy got his bounty, it shows he was cserfully thinking about what we saw in there and the Bible didn't seem to play a role in that.
Century Tuna, that's such a sweet idea.
Its the Necronomicon.
The bible Is not impoetant to the story you know how oda likes giving characters different personalitys well Maybe Kuma is a christian and that is a reason he will not fight the sh.
The bible Is not impoetant to the story you know how oda likes giving characters different personalitys well Maybe Kuma is a christian and that is a reason he will not fight the sh.
Of course it's important! It's there for Sengoku's goat to eat. Then the goat will be purified of its Devil Fruit powers, rendering Sengoku p0w3r1355 ag4iNst tha $chichbUki4!!!!11!2
Seriously though, Brag Men was there for a reference to Little Garden and reappeared later among the books in Ohara's Great Library and Norland the Liar gave a little introductory build-up for Norland's flashback later. I'm sure Bart's Bible has some significance, if not any major one. Besides, how does a pacifist get a bounty over 200,000,000 placed on their heads?
@_Meh_:
Of course it's important! It's there for Sengoku's goat to eat. Then the goat will be purified of its Devil Fruit powers, rendering Sengoku p0w3r1355 ag4iNst tha $chichbUki4!!!!11!2
Seriously though, Brag Men was there for a reference to Little Garden and reappeared later among the books in Ohara's Great Library and Norland the Liar gave a little introductory build-up for Norland's flashback later. I'm sure Bart's Bible has some significance, if not any major one. Besides, how does a pacifist get a bounty over 200,000,000 placed on their heads?
He overthrew small countries by copying Ghandi.
pacifist? why would a religious guy be pacifist? well Jesus was one but most christian leaders condone or even aprove of wars. crusades anyone?
If anything its something to cure devil fruit or people are saying the cursed fruit is the fruit of adam and eve.Is oda Christian.
What version of the Bible do you think that Bartholemew Bear has? NKJV? NIV? NAS? OKJV?
Is oda Christian?
I donno, but there are quite a few Japanese Christians on the West Coast of Japan. But then again, only 0.99% of Japan is Christian.
(last time I checked, and that's not even 1%…)
Its the Necronomicon.
some old ancient gods wanting to destroy everything since the beginning of time..
and ruffy kicking their ass….
not really. 
Is oda Christian.
I'm not sure, but a good amount of anime/manga uses Christian iconography to give it a certain foreign mystique, like Avatar does with it's smorgasbord of Eastern religious iconography and whatnot. So yeah don't look too much into it. But yeah, I expect Bart's book to play some sort of role.
Maybe Kuma is a christian and that is a reason he will not fight the sh.
Are you kidding me? Christianity is one of the most aggressive religions of all time, Kuma being Christian would in itself be a reason for him to fight the Strawhats.
@pokemaster95:
Is oda Christian.
Doubtful. If he is then I doubt he would have made Zoro an atheist or Enel so much like the Christian god. Christians don't like to paint their god as the bad guy after all.
Christianity is one of the most aggressive religions of all time
Yeah, if you consider the assholes during the Crusades. Unless you're inferring my grandmother sitting in a pew each week donating money to the local 4H and needy shelters is an aggressive individual.
some old ancient gods wanting to destroy everything since the beginning of time..
and ruffy kicking their ass….
not really.
As much as I support Luffy, but what could he do against,say,Ghatanothoa
"Ghatanothoa is a Great Old One and is so hideous that anyone who gazes upon it (or even a perfect replica) is petrified into a living mummy. The victim is permanently immobilized—the body taking on the consistency of leather and the internal organs and brain preserved indefinitely—yet remains fully aware. Only the destruction of the subject's brain can free it from its hellish prison, though the unfortunate is likely to be incurably insane long before the welcomed release."
….. If he is [christian] then I doubt he would have made Zoro an atheist or Enel so much like the Christian god.
Enel resembles the christian god? In how far? Might it be you were mistaking the christian concept of god with, let´s say, THOR? - You are swedish after all…. 
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." H.L. Mencken
Yeah, if you consider the assholes during the Crusades. Unless you're inferring my grandmother sitting in a pew each week donating money to the local 4H and needy shelters is an aggressive individual.
The religion itself is aggressive, I never claimed that all of its followers are, nor does aggressive always imply violent.
Enel resembles the christian god? In how far?
Watches over you, enslaves people with feelings of guilt, demands complete obedience and worship, kills anyone who disagrees with him and offers people to follow him into the heavens where they will spend their days praising him.
Might it be you were mistaking the christian concept of god with, let´s say, THOR? - You are swedish after all….
The Christian god has more in common with Zeus and Enel (one piece) than Thor despite using fire (being an old war/volcano god) rather than lightning. Other than that, he's pretty much the same thing.
The religion itself is aggressive, I never claimed that all of its followers are, nor does aggressive always imply violent. …....
"…love your enemies ..." doesn´t sound overly aggressive to me ...
…. Watches over you, enslaves people with feelings of guilt, demands complete obedience and worship, kills anyone who disagrees with him and offers people to follow him into the heavens where they will spend their days praising him......
Sounds quite like the old testament to me, or the doings of some christian sects (like catholics) - not really to be found in the teachings of this guy Jesus - guess we have a very different approach to religion.
…..
The Christian god has more in common with Zeus and Enel (one piece) than Thor despite using fire (being an old war/volcano god) rather than lightning. Other than that, he's pretty much the same thing.
Enel was just a powerful madman - this lineage (imo) is too much honor for him.
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." H.L. Mencken
"…love your enemies ..." doesn´t sound overly aggressive to me ...
Missionaries, Jehovas Witnesses/Mormons knocking on your doors, the whole "Intelligent Design" movement, abortion clinic bombings, working to turn the US (and other places) into a theocracy, etc. etc. etc…
It is a very aggressive religion, even if it isn't always violent.
Sounds quite like the old testament to me, or the doings of some christian sects (like catholics
The god of Jesus is supposed to be the same fucking god that's in the old testament… you can't just throw all of that out if you're going to call yourself a Christian (which I assume you do).
Enel was just a powerful madman - this lineage (imo) is too much honor for him.
Madmen seems like a good description for most of the "gods"/"prophets" out there
Missionaries, Jehovas Witnesses/Mormons knocking on your doors, the whole "Intelligent Design" movement, abortion clinic bombings, working to turn the US (and other places) into a theocracy, etc. etc. etc…
It is a very aggressive religion, even if it isn't always violent.
…..
Very good examples for your point! It also might help to ilustrate what I meant with "different approach", you are looking at the historical and current doings of certain christians and christian sects - from that perspective one can only agree with you.
For me those "sects" do not equal the core of christianity, looking for that you would have to go back to the teachings of the "founder" (who actually founded nothing) Jesus, that can be found in the new testament.
The god of Jesus is supposed to be the same fucking god that's in the old testament… you can't just throw all of that out if you're going to call yourself a Christian (which I assume you do).
.......
the old testament goes with Jews, Muslims and Christians and there are some heavy contradictions between old and new testament. Old testament surely has its meaning, but I´d rather see it in its historical context. When in doubt I´d rather go with the new testament.
…... Madmen seems like a good description for most of the "gods"/"prophets" out there
You´ve got a point with that, but spontanously I´d like to make two exceptions: above mentioned Jesus and even more so some guy commonly known as Buddha. (just my personal opinion).
back on topic:
I always believed that Bartholomew Bear would turn out a "christian/believer" in the meaning that you portrayed above - trying to enforce his rightous beliefs even if it means to kill the unenlightened ones.
Missionaries, Jehovas Witnesses/Mormons knocking on your doors, the whole "Intelligent Design" movement, abortion clinic bombings, working to turn the US (and other places) into a theocracy, etc. etc. etc…
It is a very aggressive religion, even if it isn't always violent.
The god of Jesus is supposed to be the same fucking god that's in the old testament… you can't just throw all of that out if you're going to call yourself a Christian (which I assume you do).
Madmen seems like a good description for most of the "gods"/"prophets" out there
My solution to the problem is a quote from The Call of Cthulhu:
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
So basicly,wait till the stars are right and THEN well see whos agresive.
It is a very aggressive religion, even if it isn't always violent.
I think what you mean to say is:
"People twisting the religion are agressive"
I think most people who call themselves christians take the old testament as being an epilogue of sorts. Kind of like a backstory, say. While the NT being ..er, well, you know. (At least, this is how I've seen it)
As for Oda being christian..hah, that would be an interesting SBS question to see. As for Bartholomew's bible being important.. I doubt it, unless it ate a devil fruit, which would be hell once it airs in the US depending on what power it has. If not, Bartholomew is a big reader. Maybe the next time he shows up he'll be holding a copy of Deathly Hallows.
I'm a Christian and I don't believe in Jesus.
Isn't that hilarious?
I don't believe in any of the stories.
But I do think if you take many of the parables as life lessons they're a great blueprint for leading your life.
You believe in God but dont believe in Jesus That makes you Jewish right?
and 10% of Japan Is Christian I believe.
You believe in God but dont believe in Jesus That makes you Jewish right?
and 10% of Japan Is Christian I believe.
Oh it has nothing to do with believing Jesus wasn't the son of God and just a prophet, Jewish people believe in Jesus, just that he wasn't the Messiah. On my hand I just don't believe in any of the stories Old or New Testament.
They're a bunch of crap people made up to explain the world.
But the overwhelming majority of them, obviously not all, show an excellent and selfless map to how to best lead one's life.
BTW, it wavers but about 1% of Japan is Christian.
Well your still christian Your the third christian I found in Ap
In Japan 1% equals how many people?Dont flame me but there is alot of people in japan.
And Enel is or was God in one piece but that Does not bother people Im christian and Enel is my 20th favorite character.(mind you I have alot of favorite characters so that good in my book)God in books or manga dont bother Christians but Using the word God in a term like Worship him and praise bothers people If Christians where to be botherd by God and magic They would not read books like Harry potter.(75% percent of my church reads harry potter.).
Well your still christian Your the third christian I found in Ap
What does me being Christian change? ^_^;
And Enel is or was God in one piece
Actually the whole point of that arc is he was a false leader. The Skypieans used a term for 'leader' which happened to be 'God' in English. It was a title that could be passed or taken. In other words, Oda was kinda stressing the unimportance of it. The only time they call him an actual 'god' is in Japanese when he's called a 'kami'. They even recognize the difference that exists in the climax where they all pray. They aren't praying to Enel, or even to Gun Fall, those people held titles of 'God', they're praying to 'kami'.
The same holds true for us in reverse.
We can throw kami around and it means nothing whereas 'God' or 'god' specifically indicates a deity of Christian or otherwise origin.
In short, the whole thing was kind of a cute thesis where the whole time Oda was kind of commentating on how false prophets can abuse their position, but in the end he shows that having faith in something beyond yourself can help. Which is nice.
Nothing Just saying haven't found another Christian Im not Raceist or anything just saying
