The Gorousei are The Highest Authority in the World, not power.
Power of Lucci compared to the Shichibukai.
-
-
Why are switching between Marine and Marine HQs when u r talking about the three great powers though Garp cleary said Marine HQs?
The balance makes only sense if you take just the HQs as one of the powers instead of the whole navy that is (and must remain) scattered across the globe.
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
-
The GOROUSEI are The Highest Authority in the World, not power.
Sorry, that's what I meant. Gorousi and the Five Elder Stars are the same thing though, right? I thought that was their translated name.
-
Yea, you right, I just like to call them Gorousi, you don't have to apologize.
-
No problem. By "power" I meant "political power" so they are the highest in terms of their political authority. Not literal power though.
-
Why are switching between Marine and Marine HQs when u r talking about the three great powers though Garp cleary said Marine HQs?
Its due to the fact that we are talking about the Marines as a hole not just the Marines HQ.
@Crocodile15:
No problem. By "power" I meant "political power" so they are the highest in terms of their political authority. Not literal power though.
Yeps. :)
-
Am I the only one who expects the Strategist Stork to be the creator of Roukishiki or at least the little girl who fooled Dory and Broggy back in Little garden?! :S
I mean, she must be powerful in some way, even if that means that she became famous for just fooling a couple of dumb giants…
-
@Crocodile15:
No problem. By "power" I meant "political power" so they are the highest in terms of their political authority. Not literal power though.
I don't know. They don't look THAT weak to me. But most likely nothing compared to a Shichibukai
-
i agree with jinbei
-
Damn i was skimming through this thread and realized why i liked Rob Lucci so much, Damn Logias are so overpowered.
It was cool to see Luffy get his ass handed to him by someone who wasn't a Logia. I think that Kuma's recognition of Lucci's defeat is a testemant to how powerful Lucci is/was. I don't think he should be compare to the Shichibukai based on power but based on abilities.
For example what if Doflamingo's puppeteer ability was his only one and that he has to be able to catch you to do it, we can agree that Lucci would>>>>Doflamingo (that was entirely hypothetical but you get the pint)
-
^ I agree with you. But then, I'm also a big Lucci fan.
I don't know. They don't look THAT weak to me. But most likely nothing compared to a Shichibukai
We don't know much about their power yet. I'm almost certain they can fight though.
-
Sorry for the bump, but after Moria's defeat I was wondering if anyones views on this have changed or perhaps even been reinforced.
-
After seeing what Moria and Kuma could do, Lucci is just laughable. Even Eneru is not much of a threat compared to them.
Only Blackbeard remains the strongest of all villains.
-
My point of view hasn´t really changed at all. I still believe Lucci is the strongest brawler out of all main villains we have seen, eventually there may have been two or three side characters stronger in terms of raw strength than Lucci, but we have not met a stronger / better brawler up to this point.
That said, I made this statement with no devil fruit support in mind. My entire point is that Kuma / Moria are very likely to rape him in a fight using their devil fruit powers because of how weak Zoan fruits compared to Logias / some Paramecias are. That doesn´t change the fact that (for me) the only one to compare Lucci´s power to even remotely is Luffy.
Again I´d like to mention that this is based on the fact that Lucci´s "brawling/raw strength power" is nearly the same as his "power with devil fruit support".
Kuma´s and Moria´s "brawling/raw strength power" are nowhere near their capability to fight with their "power with devil fruit support".So, final statement for the sake of polarization: Lucci still is the strongest brawler without devil fruit support, in human form without using his devil fruit he could beat everybody we saw fighting up until now, if his enemy also wouldn´t use ANY devil fruit advantage ( maybe ex Ao Kiji ). But in "power" as in "absolute strength including will to fight and stamina and strength and devil fruit ability and adaption" he´s fallen out of the Top 5 villains - definitely.
-
My point of view hasn´t really changed at all. I still believe Lucci is the strongest brawler out of all main villains we have seen, eventually there may have been two or three side characters stronger in terms of raw strength than Lucci, but we have not met a stronger / better brawler up to this point.
We or the strawhats? Presumably Shanks and Whitebeard are stronger (and to some extent also Blackbeard).
I say Oggy (and Ryuuma) are stronger then Lucci though. I'm guessing Garp is too. And alot of other characters. Lucci doesnt strike me as beyond everyone else in hand to hand combat situations. -
We or the strawhats? Presumably Shanks and Whitebeard are stronger (and to some extent also Blackbeard).
I say Oggy (and Ryuuma) are stronger then Lucci though. I'm guessing Garp is too. And alot of other characters. Lucci doesnt strike me as beyond everyone else in hand to hand combat situations.except that in my opinion we haven´t seen any of the characters named doing actual "brawling" like Luffy or Lucci did.
Blackbeard - owned Ace with his fruit powers, though he may have brawled
with Shanks resulting in that scar. still the scar looks more
weapon-inflicted to me.Whitebeard - had ONE fighting scene with a sword.
Shanks - we can count on Shanks fighting with a sword, at least now that
he doesn´t have two arms to brawl.Garp - may agree with you on this one, Garp seems more like a brawling kind
of guy, though I´ll have to see him doing other stuff than throwing
cannonballs and delivering fists of love to really believe it.You can extend this list with Kuma, Moria, Ao Kiji if you want to. My point was that we didn´t see other guys brawl, because it´s mostly Luffy´s domain to fight with his bare two hands, and even Luffy isn´t an as strong brawler as Lucci because if it weren´t for his devil fruit advantages, he had definitely lost their fight. Imagine Ruffy without Gear 2nd or 3rd, direct advantages of his devil fruit, and you will agree with me.
So the bottom line is: It´s highly plausible that Shanks, Whitebeard or Blackbeard would win in a brawl fight against Lucci, but we won´t know as long as we haven´t seen them brawl. So far the only two tough brawlers in the last 200 chapters we´ve seen fighting ( any by "seen" I mean like "we witnessed that their fighting style is purely based on brawling and adaption, they won´t pull out a sword or fire with bazookas or have devil fruits capable of airbombs in the form of paws ) are Lucci and Luffy. And like I tried to show above, Lucci without devil fruit > Luffy without devil fruit.
That´s why my first post said : Lucci is the strongest brawler we´ve seen so far WITHOUT devil fruit support. While you´re saying " he doesn´t strike you at being that extraordinary", I´m saying that Luffy nearly got beaten in his own domain. So Lucci strikes me as a hell of a powerhouse brawler, and not to be leaning too far out of the window as I don´t know the other flying Zoans, he might be ( have been ) the strongest Zoan alive.
Edit: I guess you´re right about Odz being stronger than Lucci, but then I guess I didn´t really count Odz in because, you know, he´s kind of not alive….
-
You can extend this list with Kuma, Moria, Ao Kiji if you want to. My point was that we didn´t see other guys brawl, because it´s mostly Luffy´s domain to fight with his bare two hands, and even Luffy isn´t an as strong brawler as Lucci because if it weren´t for his devil fruit advantages, he had definitely lost their fight. Imagine Ruffy without Gear 2nd or 3rd, direct advantages of his devil fruit, and you will agree with me.
You are limiting Luccis advesaries but are you limiting Lucci?
Remove his DF and his 6-form training and Franky can most likely win over him (when fully charged with cola and still has all his weapons and gadgets).I just recalled another "brawler" that could kick Luccis ass on even terms: Monster Chopper
-
I say Ryuuma is stronger then Lucci though
is this orginial Ryuuma? Becuase there is no way, Zombie Ryuuma is stronger than Lucci
Zoro's fight against Kaku, was far harder for him (and while, yes, most of it was spend trying to cut Tekkai, Ryuuma was still far less powerful than Kaku)
Look at Sanji's fight this arc = Absalom. Easily weaker than Jyabuura. And yes, I am considering Ryuuma to more or less equal Absalom. Whenever Sanji and Zoro get boss fights and NO ONE ELSE DOES, they are always equal or Zoro's is a little better.
Anyway, there is no way that Ryuuma is stronger than Lucci
-
^ I think you are forgetting to take some of the Zombie properties into account skarlath.
Luccis shigan gets pretty useless against a zombie. He needs to a) cut him into bits (with ryukogan or whatever the kicking technique is called, Ryuuma can both block and return that kind of attack though) b) feed him salt or c) ignite him.
Now we can't know for sure if Lucci is still faster then Ryuuma but even if he is Ryuuma has some interesting sordsman techniques that can still cause some serious trouble.
I consider there to be atleast a possibility of Zombie Ryuuma still standing at the end of the fight.
-
I wonder if salt anywhere inside the body would purify a zombie… Lucci's shigan would be pretty useful then.
-
^ Hahaha this is just like the Lucci vs Croc argument.
If Lucci gets to start with salty shigan fingers Ryuuma gets to start with smokers seastone jute.
-
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
-
I always assumed Zoro used his bag of salt at the last second or something.
-
Of course I read it, multiple times.
Last I checked though bursting into flames doesn't purify zombies.
-
Check again then.
That, salt and Morioas command are the three known ways of purging a zombie….
(that is why the graveyard zombies were so afraid of fire when Usopp shot them.. And why the strawhats tried to attack Oggy with fire.)If Ryuuma would have been purged by salt he would have lost his shadow instantly and not have enough time to give his goodbye speach.
-
Of course I read it, multiple times.
Last I checked though bursting into flames doesn't purify zombies.
that was the first time. It also proved why the first zombies we met were so afraid of fire.
Gorlom
Despite all these facts that perhaps Lucci attacks wouldn't be as effective against a zombie, and you're right, where do you think that Ryuuma could harm Lucci?
-
Moria said something like "That fear of fire is only an after effect of your past life. Such things have no effect on zombies."
The zombies in the graveyard were stupid…
-
Moria said something like "That fear of fire is only an after effect of your past life. Such things have no effect on zombies."
The zombies in the graveyard were stupid…
Hmmm….
Moria said this about pain in general. Show me where he specifically said "fire" and I'll admit you're right. Trust me when we say that Ryuuma = purified by fire and not salt.
-
From 475, where Ussop and Franky did the combined Firebird star.
Stephens translation:
Moria: Pathetic. Don't fall back, Odz!!
Heat and pain are holdovers from your human era!!
Zombies have no such weaknesses!!!
Settle down and bat the flames away!!! -
From 475, where Ussop and Franky did the combined Firebird star.
Stephens translation:
Moria: Pathetic. Don't fall back, Odz!!
Heat and pain are holdovers from your human era!!
Zombies have no such weaknesses!!!
Settle down and bat the flames away!!!huh…
well, there you go.
BUT....
stephen's trans of chapter 467
Ryuma: His slice set me on fire?!!
then he get's purified. So I'm not 100% sure how to retcon this, but
it seems that either Moria didn't know this or simply didn't consider
it a threat against the ultimate fighting machine that was Odz.edit: Also, in re-reading chapter 475, Moria was cautioning against
panicking. He could have still been vary of the fire's effects, just
not worried. -
Someone needs to ask this in an SBS. :crosses arms:
-
Nuzzie: What moria says is that Oggy can't feel pain or heat, but he doesn't say fire is ineffective.
It is just that fire needs to consume the zombie so fire at that scale isn't overly dangerous (unless it starts to spread).
Which is why Moria can calmly tell Oggy to bat out the flame.Skarlath: Ryuuma had pretty powerful versions of Brooks attack. The three arrow notch strike, that ranged stab he did i forgot the name of. That stab seemed to be pretty quick.
-
I always assumed Zoro used his bag of salt at the last second or something.
This how Zoro beat him
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/467/16 -
Hmm, I guess you're right, Gorlom. It did after all only hit his arm. Moria sure is a laidback guy.
-
We or the strawhats? Presumably Shanks and Whitebeard are stronger (and to some extent also Blackbeard).
I say Oggy (and Ryuuma) are stronger then Lucci though. I'm guessing Garp is too. And alot of other characters. Lucci doesnt strike me as beyond everyone else in hand to hand combat situations.I agree about everyone you've listed being stronger than Lucci, but please tell me you're joking about Ryumma though.
There's no way you can be talking about Ryumma while he was alive since we don't exactly know the types of opponents he fought back then. All we have to go on is the reputation Ryumma had while he was alive. All things considering I'd say Ryumma from the past could have possibly been stronger than Lucci since we was well-regarded enough in the New World for taking out something as mythical as a dragon.
If you're talking about current Ryumma there's no way he was stronger than Lucci. Sure the zombie Ryumma had presumably a stronger body than in his former life, but then you have to take into account the shadow that was given to him. Even having Brook's shadow, who is by no means weak, Zoro managed to take him out only using two swords. Basically Zoro was fighting a stronger Brook, and still didn't have too much trouble.
-
@Kidany:
If you're talking about current Ryumma there's no way he was stronger than Lucci. Sure the zombie Ryumma had presumably a stronger body than in his former life, but then you have to take into account the shadow that was given to him. Even having Brook's shadow, who is by no means weak, Zoro managed to take him out only using two swords. Basically Zoro was fighting a stronger Brook, and still didn't have too much trouble.
They don't stack? As in Ryuma gets Brook's shadow so doesn't that means he 'fused' he's skills with Brook?
Tick tick tick
-
btw I was thinking about this
Lucci vs Garp
I gotta go with Lucci
We haven't seen a real difference in their psychical strength and we haven't seen that Garp could move fast enough to really fight Lucci
anyone got any ideas?
-
I'm assumeing that Garp knows soru since Helmeppo and Coby suddenly knew it after training under him.
-
I'm assumeing that Garp knows soru since Helmeppo and Coby suddenly knew it after training under him.
Yeah, I've thought of this too
I guess we'll never know
-
Picturing Garp using Soru is hilarious to me for some reason.
-
i think garp does know soru. remember when he met luffy and his crew and luffy was sleeping and garp was being blocked by sanji and franky, than he moved super fast which i think was soru since both sanji and franky didn't have time to react until it was too late and garp hit luffy
-
You don't have to use soru to be fast, but then again we may never know whether Garp knows soru or not.
@Nuzzie, Just because he's old? -
Kaku was constantly pounding at Zoro without making much progress until Zoro decided to shut him down. Ryuuma's comparatively few attacks, on the other hand, were about to break Zoros swords in two.
That's because the move Ryumma was doing to Zoro was specifically meant for attempting to break swords, a "weapon breaking" technique if you will. It's not because his attacks were "just that strong." Zoro even commented on it. Either way the Ryumma that Zoro fought was not stronger than Kaku.
EDIT: Here's the page.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/467/04/
@123:
They don't stack? As in Ryuma gets Brook's shadow so doesn't that means he 'fused' he's skills with Brook?
No they don't stack, the body's being used are not retaining anything from their former life sans the body itself. The shadow owners' strength and technique( and sometimes mannerisms as seen with Dogpen and Odz) are what is transferred using Moria's Devil Fruit. The only thing from the body being kept is the physical attributes, which is why Moria had Hogback modify them, to make the bodies stronger than before. The Odz we saw was basically Luffy in a legendary beast's body, nothing there in terms of technique was Odz itself.
-
@Kidany:
Either way the Ryumma that Zoro fought was not stronger than Kaku.
Is that so? :)
I'd consider the possibility if Zoro was praising him for his technique instead of his strength. Either way, i prefer zombie samurai over giraffes so i'm always gonna vote for him. Not gonna put him above Lucci though. If there's one thing i like even more than zombie samurai it's kittens.
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
-
@Kidany:
The only thing from the body being kept is the physical attributes
Not neccesarily true. As in Ryumma's case, his personality was much more "Ryumma" than Brooke
because his body (flesh as he stated it) was much stronger than his shadow
I think this idea might be only my interpretation, but I certainly could see a strong body retaining ideas of their owners rather than the shadows…
edit: DUH! Cindry. Her body's personality took over from her shadows.
-
Is that so? :)
I'd consider the possibility if Zoro was praising him for his technique instead of his strength. Either way, i prefer zombie samurai over giraffes so i'm always gonna vote for him. Not gonna put him above Lucci though. If there's one thing i like even more than zombie samurai it's kittens.
Zoro didn't even need 3 swords to take him out. Besides it's not like being weaker than Kaku makes Zombie Ryumma a pushover. It was a great fight that was presented in a good way. You can like whichever character you want, but personal preferences don't have any bearing on who is stronger than who.
Not neccesarily true. As in Ryumma's case, his personality was much more "Ryumma" than Brooke
because his body (flesh as he stated it) was much stronger than his shadow
I think this idea might be only my interpretation, but I certainly could see a strong body retaining ideas of their owners rather than the shadows…
edit: DUH! Cindry. Her body's personality took over from her shadows.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/450/004/
That's so "not Brook" right?
Besides, Odz's body is certainly stronger than Luffy, but who's personality did we see before it eventually faded away? I'll let you answer that.
Regarding Cindry, that was obviously to make the scene more intense and to prove Hogback wrong. There are usually exceptions to most rules and that happened to be one of them.
-
Oz was Luffy 100% of the time, other than obeying Moria.
-
Kaku caused more collateral damage than Ryuma did. That shows he has more power than Ryuma. Ryuma however attacked with far more grace and technical skill than Kaku. However, Ryuma's personality is still Brooke-sans-memories. At the end of the fight, Ryuma feels shame to bring defeat to his body because Brooke is honorable. Ryuma's true self has not been shown in One Piece. Ryuma's personality may actually be more like the character Ryuma in Oda's one-shot manga "Monsters". Btw, his personality is like a mix between Luffy and Zoro.
Edit: I read the sbs translation on the sbs, and found out who Ryuma is.
-
All this makes me wanna see the true Ryuma.
But for the Kaku VS Ryuma, i'll say its hard to judge considering we don't know the extent to Ryuma's real ability.
