This is the new force that supposedly is powerful enough to replace all the Seven Warlords in the world balance. These kids hardly seem as strong as the pirates they are based on, imagine being twice as valuable to the point 4 of them are enough.
Unless the Seraphim are shown to be expressively stronger than their human counterpart, we shouldn’t expect them to be less numerous than the group they replaced.
Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy
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I mean these things actually do the things you ask of them. With zero percent backstabbing. And you can get them all to dogpile whoever you want gone. They are like warlords but with blackjack and hookers
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If the WG was willing to let go of the Warlords for just a group of "not so strong, but still very strong and highly obedient soldiers", they would have done that when the Pacifista started being mass produced.
The Warlords being unreliable allies is not something new that started with Doflamingo. I doubt the kings ever had an ounce of trust in those pirates, but if they still decided it was a good idea to establish the Warlord system and kept it going for decades despite that, is because they decided that however traitorous those allies could become, it was still worth the risk.
So I doubt they would suddenly throw it away for a weapon that is not at the very least as strong as the Warlords were (and these 4 kids alone are not it). -
The only reason I think Doflamingo and Crocodile have no Seraphims is because "S-Flamingo" sounds like a mouthful and "S-Crocodile" would be just awkward.
And I'm not sure what they would use for Moria, who has both Gecko and Bat on his name.
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@King-Cannon "S-Gator?".
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I assume they tried to clone Crocodile but the result was just a bananadile since he just gave them a fake blood sample.
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@access-timeco said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
This is the new force that supposedly is powerful enough to replace all the Seven Warlords in the world balance. These kids hardly seem as strong as the pirates they are based on, imagine being twice as valuable to the point 4 of them are enough.
Unless the Seraphim are shown to be expressively stronger than their human counterpart, we shouldn’t expect them to be less numerous than the group they replaced.Why exactly are you under the impression that the Seraphim were noticeably weaker than their human counterparts?
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@Coookie said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
Why exactly are you under the impression that the Seraphim were noticeably weaker than their human counterparts?
Look at our first contact with these kids. If Oda wanted to impress us, he could easily have S-Hawk or Snake (not "and") completely take Amazon Lily down by him/herself with the exception of Hancock, before Teach arrived. Powerscaling-wise there might nothing impressive in defeating the amazons at this point, but it would still be visually striking the image of a kid alone subjugating an entire country of amazon warriors (while still not hurting Hancock's image by showing her holding her ground). That would instantly convey the idea that "damn, this kid is a beast".
But instead, he decided out first contact with the Seraphim would be two of them attacking the island to the impressive result of... nothing. The only lasting damage they caused was a broken rock.
A debut with nothing particularly remarkable, with them being quickly brushed aside halfway through so we could focus on the more relevant people present (which, ironically, included an actual Warlord).
Meanwhile the OG Mihawk was given a bounty on par with the Emperors.
Just compare the kind of hype Oda tried to create for each Hawk, almost simultaneously.Or the fact that the combined attack of the 4 Seraphim was not enough to even take out all the nameless CP0 grunts, with many of them coming out completely unharmed, not to mention Kaku and Stussy - can you imagine the same if Mihawk, Kuma, Hancock and Jinbe attacked that group together, even for just a few minutes? - Oda could easily have shown all the grunts were taken out, but nah.
I think it's pretty obvious that, yes, Oda wants us to think these kids are powerful, but he is definitely not trying to woe us to the point we are supposed to be hyped. We know they are strong mostly because other characters keep saying it, not because Oda is making an effort to impress us.
So unless there is some sort of "they are only using 20% of their strength" reveal, I can't see how these 4 kids alone are meant to be perceived as worthy the same as the 7 Warlords (a group Oda keeps hyping even now).
I would find easier to believe the Warlord clones are just the tip of the iceberg and SURPRISE "meet S-White, S-Pink, S-Azure and S-Gold". -
@access-timeco said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
I would find easier to believe the Warlord clones are just the tip of the iceberg and SURPRISE "meet S-White, S-Pink, S-Azure and S-Gold".
S-White: Whitebeard
S-Pink: Senor Pink
S-Azure: ?
S-Gold: Gol D. Roger?I accept Jesus Burgess as my Lord and Savior
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This post is deleted!
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@Medical-Orbit Pink and Azure are Big Mom and Kaido.
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@access-timeco said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
Look at our first contact with these kids. If Oda wanted to impress us, he could easily have S-Hawk or Snake (not "and") completely take Amazon Lily down by him/herself with the exception of Hancock, before Teach arrived. Powerscaling-wise there might nothing impressive in defeating the amazons at this point, but it would still be visually striking the image of a kid alone subjugating an entire country of amazon warriors (while still not hurting Hancock's image by showing her holding her ground). That would instantly convey the idea that "damn, this kid is a beast".
The Marines' goal wasn't to take down Amazon Lily. They explicitly said that they don't want to fight Hancock or the Kuja Pirates. Also, I'm getting "I wasn't impressed so Oda didn't try to impress anyone" vibes
But instead, he decided out first contact with the Seraphim would be two of them attacking the island to the impressive result of... nothing. The only lasting damage they caused was a broken rock.
I imagine you reacting to Mihawk's first reveal in the vein of "Why are you so impressed? All he's done is chop some wood" He must be super weak then because he's never actually dealt any significant damage besides slicing up a surrendering East Blue rookie, that ship and some ice. What has Hancock ever done aside from using her hax powers that S-Snake also has?
A debut with nothing particularly remarkable, with them being quickly brushed aside halfway through so we could focus on the more relevant people present (which, ironically, included an actual Warlord).
You mean besides being Lunarian kid versions of people with whom we're very familiar and leaving Blackbeard flabbergasted? Not counting the fact that Oda obviously planned to focus more on the Seraphim in the coming chapters, so no need to let them hog the panels at that point.
Meanwhile the OG Mihawk was given a bounty on par with the Emperors.
What a chump he was in the 1009 chapters between his debut and his first on-screen bounty. Wait, what would the alternative even be for the Seraphim? It's not like they'd be getting bounties, especially not so shortly after their creation if we're using Cross Guild's bounties as a substitute.
Just compare the kind of hype Oda tried to create for each Hawk, almost simultaneously.
And are those Hawks in the room right now, or do you only hear their voices? Because I have no idea what Hawks you're talking about.
Or the fact that the combined attack of the 4 Seraphim was not enough to even take out all the nameless CP0 grunts, with many of them coming out completely unharmed, not to mention Kaku and Stussy - can you imagine the same if Mihawk, Kuma, Hancock and Jinbe attacked that group together, even for just a few minutes? - Oda could easily have shown all the grunts were taken out, but nah.
If we're making up explanations, the remaining CP0 agents are the ones S-Snake froze and unfroze when they regained authority. And what would the OG four have done differently? Jimbei doesn't have AoE attacks, Hancock would probably have done the same as S-Snake, S-Bear used Ursa Shock which I don't imagine Kuma doing any differently, and S-Hawk can hardly unleash island wide slashes willy-nilly.
I think it's pretty obvious that, yes, Oda wants us to think these kids are powerful, but he is definitely not trying to woe us to the point we are supposed to be hyped. We know they are strong mostly because other characters keep saying it, not because Oda is making an effort to impress us.
Who would be impressed by Lunarian x Pacifista x child clones of the four undefeated (well, until Blackbeard came to Amazon Lily) Warlords crossovers who retain seemingly all of their abilities in addition to lasers and Lunarian durability
So unless there is some sort of "they are only using 20% of their strength" reveal, I can't see how these 4 kids alone are meant to be perceived as worthy the same as the 7 Warlords (a group Oda keeps hyping even now).
I would find easier to believe the Warlord clones are just the tip of the iceberg and SURPRISE "meet S-White, S-Pink, S-Azure and S-Gold".Headcanons are a strong drug, I'm aware.
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So far we had a lot of the surprise that the Seraphim are child versions of the Warlords. Going further it would be interesting if Vegapunk told something about them being Lunarians... Was he part of the experiments done on King? King and Kaidou met escaping a WG lab, and Vegapunk had enough of Kaidou's samples to make an artificial fruit. Really didn't want to have Vegapunk involved in experiments on a race subject to genocide...
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@Coookie said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
lots of shit
Geez, man, you could just say "I disagree", didn't really have to waste your time on "I am going to bring this guy down".
If you were just trying to show your point to me I would bother, but after the third line I could tell where you were going and, sorry, I will not waste my time going through what is just someone trying to get some kicks from being an asshole on internet. -
@BekaDidAct said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
Still no Moria? How long can Oda get away with this? Pretty disgusting how we only got 2 Moria panels during the average Kaido Arc.
Ay, Sengoku, Fujitora, and Doflamingo haven’t been seen in awhile either.
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@BekaDidAct said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
Still no Moria? How long can Oda get away with this? Pretty disgusting how we only got 2 Moria panels during the average Kaido Arc.
Why the hell would you put this awesome piece of APF culture in spoiler tags?
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@Deicide In the room where the Strawhats fought
S-Shark we saw doors marked with numbers up to 7.
S-Shark was behind 4, and Hawk and Snake were behind 1 and 2.
So there should be something behind the other doors but maybe they are incomplete. -
@access-timeco said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
@Coookie said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
lots of shit
Geez, man, you could just say "I disagree", didn't really have to waste your time on "I am going to bring this guy down".
If you were just trying to show your point to me I would bother, but after the third line I could tell where you were going and, sorry, I will not waste my time going through what is just someone trying to get some kicks from being an asshole on internet.If my goal was just being mean to you I wouldn't go to the lengths of systematically addressing your points. I'd just call you names and be done with it, you seem to like that strategy.
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If anything i'd imagine the seraphim are more capable than the original, with sturdier bodies and additional DF powers to complement their skills and cover up their weaknesses. But then again the limits in their programming is a pretty glaring weakness that arguably could make them weaker than the real-lords. Human brain > Vegapedia brain
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I agree. Also who knows if obedient servants have access to Haki aka manifested ambition
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Regarding the Seraphim it's clear that Oda is spending a lot of effort to tell us, both through their nature and the character exposition, that these guys are hot shit, but also they don't really have any decisive on-panel "wins" to their name yet; they don't accomplish their goal at Amazon Lilly, they haven't been able to take down any named character so far instead mostly doing environmental damage, they sweating when facing off with Zoro, stuff like that.
Both things can be true at the same time. -
@Coookie said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
@access-timeco said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
@Coookie said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
lots of shit
Geez, man, you could just say "I disagree", didn't really have to waste your time on "I am going to bring this guy down".
If you were just trying to show your point to me I would bother, but after the third line I could tell where you were going and, sorry, I will not waste my time going through what is just someone trying to get some kicks from being an asshole on internet.If my goal was just being mean to you I wouldn't go to the lengths of systematically addressing your points. I'd just call you names and be done with it, you seem to like that strategy.
I mean, you lead your rebuttal with
"The Marines' goal wasn't to take down Amazon Lily. They explicitly said that they don't want to fight Hancock or the Kuja Pirates. Also, I'm getting "I wasn't impressed so Oda didn't try to impress anyone" vibes"Which, to start with, completely ignores that the marines came to Amazon Island to target Hancock with Seraphim in tow, and accomplished nothing except losing Koby...which ignores acess.timecos point. He argues they didn't accomplish their goal, you say "that wasn't their goal", and then don't establish what their goal is supposed to be or what if anything they accomplished. Then you whoelsale dismiss Acess.timecos actual reasonings given as disengenous, which is not helped by needlessly mocking remarks such as "And are those Hawks in the room right now, or do you only hear their voices?" or "If we're making up explanations", and more. Your entire tone comes off as mocking, absolutely not helped by the "Cry laughing" emoji you added to acess.timecos earlier post.
When that's the attitude you bring, he has ample reason to not consider discourse with you worth his time. And like, not even 10 years ago I would maybe write my counterpoints in a similar snide "what are you thinking? lol" way which is fun and empowering to write, but also makes you look bad to the people on the other end and actively hurts your chances at engaging in good-faith discourse with them...assuming thats what you want.
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@Daz said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
Regarding the Seraphim it's clear that Oda is spending a lot of effort to tell us, both through their nature and the character exposition, that these guys are hot shit, but also they don't really have any decisive on-panel "wins" to their name yet; they don't accomplish their goal at Amazon Lilly, they haven't been able to take down any named character so far instead mostly doing environmental damage, they sweating when facing off with Zoro, stuff like that.
Both things can be true at the same time.
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If all the teasing around the Seraphims just being kids doesn't materialize in them actually growing up for the final conflict and it just stays as a what-if scenario that background characters ponder about I would be both very shocked and disappointed.
But on the other hand Oda has chosen to explicitely point it out via Bonney that her powers aren't the key to grow them permanently and unless SHs are going to spend 1 whole year on Elbaf I find it hard to imagine that Oda would stretch our incredulity by having Chibi-Hawk become Full-Hawk overnight.
Even so no other kid in the series has been able to cut a mountain in half or push Zoro back in a sword clash, and maybe the permanent child-like appearance adds to both the uneasyness and gravitas that they're supposed to convey (what if some babies kicked your ass yada yada)
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Their growth is probably accelerated until maturity and then it slows or stops. Unless VP sabotaged them.
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@Daz said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
I mean, you lead your rebuttal with [...]
Which, to start with, completely ignores that the marines came to Amazon Island to target Hancock with Seraphim in tow, and accomplished nothing except losing Koby...
When an Emperor and the Pirate King's first mate unexpectedly join the fray I don't blame them for being quickly overwhelmed and outmatched.
which ignores acess.timecos point. He argues they didn't accomplish their goal, you say "that wasn't their goal", and then don't establish what their goal is supposed to be or what if anything they accomplished.
They argued that the Seraphim could've just laid waste to Amazon Lily and/or subjugate the island before Blackbeard's arrival to establish hype, which is why I'm pointing out that the Marines never intended wanton destruction or to fight them if it can be avoided. Also, the Marines came to Amazon Lily to apprehend Hancock, I genuinely thought that was obvious.
Then you whoelsale dismiss Acess.timecos actual reasonings given as disengenous
I don't wholesale dismiss the reasonings. I give concrete evidence why those reasonings aren't good arguments for why the Seraphim would be significantly weaker than their originals: The latter have never shown anything beyond the very same level of accomplishments. So why is it seen as a detriment to the Seraphim?
which is not helped by needlessly mocking remarks such as "And are those Hawks in the room right now, or do you only hear their voices?" or "If we're making up explanations", and more. Your entire tone comes off as mocking, absolutely not helped by the "Cry laughing" emoji you added to acess.timecos earlier post.
When that's the attitude you bring, he has ample reason to not consider discourse with you worth his time. And like, not even 10 years ago I would maybe write my counterpoints in a similar snide "what are you thinking? lol" way which is fun and empowering to write, but also makes you look bad to the people on the other end and actively hurts your chances at engaging in good-faith discourse with them...assuming thats what you want.
I admit I do like to add some snark into my posts, and if anyone decides to not engage with me because their feelings can't handle separating snark from arguments, then that's their prerogative. That still doesn't change the fact that my posts aren't just a string of random insults designed to get a kick out of being mean. But again, people are free to see it that way.
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@UniversallyBlue oh, I need to check that. Something will certainly come out of this, but it may be a twist.
Right now, I see no reason to hide any Seraphim unless they are not in Egghead or they are not what we’d expect (i.e.: still maturing, failed, unstable, whatever).
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@UniversallyBlue said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
@Deicide In the room where the Strawhats fought
S-Shark we saw doors marked with numbers up to 7.
S-Shark was behind 4, and Hawk and Snake were behind 1 and 2.Huh, never noticed that.
Couldn't find the panel with Hawk/Snake on doors 1/2, but Shark was clearly shown behind the 4 and we can see numbered doors up to 7.
Also we can see there's no 8 (after the 7 is the entry), so it seems we also know exactly how many there are... That's too bad, no S-Clown for me. But on the bright side, no S-Law either. -
I hope there is a S-Clown, Buggy being outclassed by a copy of himself has comedy potential.
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@aku-chan I think Oda said if Buggy had an animal motif, it'd be a Panda. XD
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@access-timeco
The panel of Hawk and Snake's doors opening is in 1068,
when Shaka mobilized them and gives the command to Sentomaru. -
NNID: jervinnectar
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Wasn't it mention by one of the Satellite that the War Lord clones are kids and are still growing, didn't we see a panel when they first attack the Straw Hats, one of the Vega satellites said they are growing from the battle, So why are most persons jumping to conclusion that, how they are now is how they will be for the remainder of the manga. Think about it if they are this strong now to the point they can give most pirates trouble, what will happen if they continue to grow in age and battle experience.
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@One-Don-Requelme yes, the mention of them still being kids has happened at least twice. Once by Edison or Pythagoras (can’t remember) when Franky shoot a laser at S-Shark, and once by Stussy when they were ordered by Sentomaru to attack CP-0.
This is one of the reasons I think Bonney will join this arc’s villain and turn the Seraphim into adults.
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@Nectar said in Chapter 1073: Miss Buckingham Stussy:
@Kdom
She could be an imperfect clone like I assume Weevil is.And thus we wait to see if anyone else out there is a failed Rocks clone.
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