Oh damn I didn't even say a word about the Eikon battles, which are worth the price of admission alone. There are just too few of them in my book.
Final Fantasy XVI
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@Kitsune-Inferno said in Final Fantasy XVI:
Can't say I've ever gotten much challenging gameplay out of the series myself if I'm being honest with myself. Even the best of the games have rather trivial combat systems when you break them down like that.
FF7R made me weigh each and every move and consider my load-out for almost every new encounter. It was sooooo satisfying.
Other than that, in previous entries, I had to think about what I wanted to do, not just muscle memory it which is well over half of the experience here. Bosses are different. By far! They're thought-provoking and of course beautiful eye candy. But I'm on auto-pilot in almost every trash encounter doing the same exact thing without a tweak in rhythm or a need to.
In short, I had all sorts of ideas of how it could be a marriage of the best parts of 7R and 14 but it really hasn't delivered on those expectations. Sure, expectations are on me, but when you super-hype that Yoshi-P is on it, you're setting yourself up for that.
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I’m less far into the game (just got Titan) but I’d say my issue is I’m having fun, but I have to reaaaally focus on the cinematic sequences and boss battles and try my best not to attempt to dissect or even digest too much lore or story because it’s just very unsatisfying on almost every level. It really is complexity through obscurity, and honestly all my good faith was lost with how they handled the second time skip.
It really is obvious how hard this game is trying to be GoT huh? From the factions to the naming conventions and overall language used (in English anyway) to the aesthetic and hell even the map screen. And goddamn not EVERYTHING EVER has to be that gritty and grimdark.
I do like some of the characters, especially Jill, but not really Clive. He’s kinda boring? Personality-wise and even in how he speaks. Which isn’t that uncommon in a main character perhaps, but when it’s also mostly brooding, I feel it more. I guess also because he’s the only character you actually get to play as, which is part of what makes the combat feel so lifeless. Sure you can modify your kit, but you don’t have a party to build around or even the ability to customize or command allies in even a basic way (except Torgal who, ironically, would be MUCH better served making the brain-dead choices on his own instead of me having to mash the D-pad and accidentally chug all my potions).
I do enjoy the combat but I want something to force me to make choices, even within whatever my current loadout is. I keep hoping some actually unique and challenging Hunts will show up if nothing else. Limit Break also feels super unsatisfying… I barely feel stronger when using it and it’s just a glorified potion as far as I’m concerned since it charges quickly and 90% of the time I just pop it to heal.
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I'm 15 hours in and really enjoying my time but I do wish the game was more challenging. Less potions and less generous dodge timing (or at least more aggressive enemies) would be a good start.
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Beat it.
I can't hate on it bc I'm 40 and that would be dumb af. (FF15 tho...)
But wow, yeah, gameplay plateaus around Titan, then story around Bahamut and....that was pretty much it for me.
Back to Diablo 4.
Something I never expected to say until at earliest August.
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It is kind of heartbreaking to hear that the combat doesn't have the same risk-reward factor that FF7R had. That game is the slickest proof for a hybrid combat system I've ever played and it always felt like I had to try something different. I'll still probably get FFXVI once I decide to purchase a PS5, but that might not be until Rebirth comes out.
edit: I'm also hopeful that there may have been a great update by the time I get it.
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@Greg said in Final Fantasy XVI:
@Kitsune-Inferno said in Final Fantasy XVI:
Can't say I've ever gotten much challenging gameplay out of the series myself if I'm being honest with myself. Even the best of the games have rather trivial combat systems when you break them down like that.
FF7R made me weigh each and every move and consider my load-out for almost every new encounter. It was sooooo satisfying.
Other than that, in previous entries, I had to think about what I wanted to do, not just muscle memory it which is well over half of the experience here. Bosses are different. By far! They're thought-provoking and of course beautiful eye candy. But I'm on auto-pilot in almost every trash encounter doing the same exact thing without a tweak in rhythm or a need to.
FF7R is really good in that regard. It's pretty hard to autopilot in that game. I was thinking more along the lines of the ATB games where the vast majority of them you can get by with just the attack command and the occasional elemental spell, but even 16's lack of elements in a gameplay sense is disappointing. I don't like that there is literally no difference between a Fire spell or an Aero spell. Bahamut's kit does make spellcasting interesting to an extent but that's not enough to differentiate between them. Another wasted opportunity IMO is that the basics of Clive's combos/moves don't change from Eikon to Eikon. I would have appreciated like a quicker move speed/attack speed with Garuda and slower but stronger blows from Titan but they all function identically.
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By the way, is Ramuh a Square-created entity? Because I know others like Odin, Shiva, Garuda, etc. all come from various religions and mythologies, but he is not, right?
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I am nearing the end but I also noticed that the story took a nosedive after the Bahamut fight, which functioned as the climax to every emotional narrative that had been set up up to that point.
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@Kaiolino said in Final Fantasy XVI:
I am nearing the end but I also noticed that the story took a nosedive after the Bahamut fight, which functioned as the climax to every emotional narrative that had been set up up to that point.
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Damn most of the reviews I’ve seen have been excellent, we’ll hopefully FF7 rebirth will be better
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@Shiebs said in Final Fantasy XVI:
Damn most of the reviews I’ve seen have been excellent, we’ll hopefully FF7 rebirth will be better
Better in terms of the few people posting their thoughts in this thread or in general? I mean. People want different things, and your experiences will be your own. Reviews are helpful for advertising, reputation, research... but ultimately I don't think they're an end-all means of determining whether something is good or bad. I like a lot of games that didn't review well, and I don't like a lot of games that got perfect reviews. It sucks when you end up feeling like the minority or it's like you're on the "losing team" but it's also important to not let things detract what you'd actually find enjoyable.
I think about this when it comes to the upcoming live action One Piece too. It's not going to be for everyone and those people are going to voice it, but if you end up enjoying it a lot anyway, isn't that pretty awesome?
That said, I'm not far enough in FF16 to post overall thoughts, but if it helps, I like it a lot so far despite the story kinda depressing me out. There's foreshadowing I'm hesitant about, and a few things I'm meh about, but I think that's normal. I've never seen Game of Thrones, I like FF14 and Yoshi-P's dev team, I wholly dislike what happened with FF15, and the last actiony game I played was probably KH3/FF7R, games where it felt like their combat was a palate cleanser after going through FF15. And now, FF16's combat as simplistic as it may be to others, has been even more satisfying. I've watched people play games like Bayonetta, DMC, and GoW, but I was never really interested in playing them. So in a way, playing this kind of game for me is almost like giving a child a taste of chocolate for the first time in their life, and it's pretty cool. No buyer's remorse for the new shiny PS5 so far.
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@Cinder said in Final Fantasy XVI:
I think about this when it comes to the upcoming live action One Piece too. It's not going to be for everyone and those people are going to voice it, but if you end up enjoying it a lot anyway, isn't that pretty awesome?
Why not your have people who liked the 4Kids dub.
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Oof, finished the game and I did not like that ending at all.
But I had a lot of fun with the first 75% of the game.
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Hey, the 4Kids dub is a tragic masterpiece. See also: Sonic 06.
@Cinder
Glad to hear you're enjoying it. I may come off as too defensive in this thread, but I'll admit that part of it is because I think that despite its flaws, there's still a very strong game here. I just have what I assume is the final dungeon to go and depending on how I like the ending, this still likely ends up one of the better FFs in my book, all things considered. That's something everyone has to decide for themselves, which is why it bothers me that some of the responses in this thread have been "oh well guess I shouldn't bother with it then".I would love if they did an Eikon Edition a year or two down the road similar to FF12's Zodiac versions, add in a couple more Eikons, a party control system (gambits or something like FF15 did) and greatly improve the gear system. There's something cooking in the oven though because spoiler
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Also, after watching a walkthrough on YouTube, this story is really goddamn bleak.
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So long as it’s not 15 levels of bleak.
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They're definitely doing DLC or continuing the story in some form because
Which is ironic since Yoshida talked about avoiding the pitfalls of 15 being spread out in order to tell a single story.
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@Greg
Yeah, I've been trying to reconcile how Yoshida could make that statement with the holes they have, but I think the difference comes down to the nature of those holes.Every single one of Noctis's relationships is defined by an external piece of media, be it the Brotherhood anime for the boys or the Kingsglaive movie for his dad and Luna. Though I think the game does a good job contextualizing the relationship with the boys without the anime, Luna and Regis and even Ravus are done so dirty by the Kingsglaive movie that their arcs are more or less ripped from the game.
Then of course you have major characters you've been traveling with the entire game suddenly going off on their own without explanation and coming back into the story a chapter or two later with a huge scar that was never explored in the main game, which essentially baked DLC into the main narrative.
With one exception though, I feel like the major questions I had after finishing FF16 were much more tangential.
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@Kitsune-Inferno said in Final Fantasy XVI:
Yeah, I've been trying to reconcile how Yoshida could make that statement with the holes they have, but I think the difference comes down to the nature of those holes.
I'm apparently 96% complete, so I still have yet to see the ending... but I will in a few hours after eating and tidying up.
My thoughts could change in a few hours, but my guess with that statement so far is that I can buy FF16 and expect a complete story and dip out. Any DLC would be optional supplemental lore stuff or bonus extras for people who want more. When BotW's DLC was announced, they said the same thing. You can go without Champion's Ballad DLC imo, but I bet a lot of people don't think so just because it's any content at all.
@Kitsune-Inferno said in Final Fantasy XVI:
Then of course you have major characters you've been traveling with the entire game suddenly going off on their own without explanation and coming back into the story a chapter or two later with a huge scar that was never explored in the main game, which essentially baked DLC into the main narrative.
Grateful for not having this in 16 as far as I'm aware. The way 15's Episodes were made and celebrated made me kinda mad. I'd be just as mad with 16 if they expected me to replay the whole thing because a bunch of game mechanics and stories were missing and patched in. I'm not surprised if new players played the Royal edition and thought it was a decent experience. Buh, there was no closure for me there. The remaining DLC gets cancelled, Tabata "leaves" and the whole thing was just... over. The producer letters from 14's 1.0 days and having to regain player trust again struck an interesting chord.
Edit: Ok, I think this is the build I'm going to take with me to the end area.
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@Foolio said in Final Fantasy XVI:
He’s kinda boring? Personality-wise and even in how he speaks. Which isn’t that uncommon in a main character perhaps, but when it’s also mostly brooding, I feel it more.
I thought I didn't like brooding characters but I think with Clive I gave a pass because it unfortunately made sense, and he doesn't seem thorny to be around. So it's kind of like, mature brooding maybe? The poor guy:
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Edit: This "More than Words" quest made me tear up.
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@Cinder
Towards the end, I started letting the "Recommended Abilities" option give me a random setup between fights to try and get a feel for everyone's abilities. That made me come around quite a bit on Ramuh's set too. I didn't realize that enemy attacks would also trigger Lightning Rod, so you can basically use it to turn heavy enemies' attacks against themselves haha. Haven't given a lot of thought yet to what I'll run in FF mode but I think Shiva and Bahamut's feats for sure with either Garuda or Phoenix.As for DLC, I've been putting together a theory (my last theory before the game came out is that
-- so I'm probably way off the mark) as to what that DLC might entail.
(Lore spoilers)EDIT: Yoshi-P gave a recent interview saying he wants to do a Cid DLC (personally and creatively, not that a business decision has been made), so here's hoping that comes to fruition.
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So I finished the game a couple weeks ago (all quests and hunts), and yeah, having let it sit for a while I don't think I can ultimately call it a good game. It's not like I (usually) actively suffered while playing, and the production quality is really high, but I think it ends up boiling down to two major points:
- There is not enough actual game
- The story completely went to crap
If I'm really being honest, this is way more of a slightly-interactive movie than a game. The combat is so basic that yeah, you can do flashy move A instead of flashy move B but in the end there are no choices or strategies to make; every battle plays exactly the same. I tried in earnest to experiment with different Eikons but it has zero impact. Every battle is just mash every cooldown to either wipe the crowd or build toward staggering the enemy, then dodge and do some chip damage until you can repeat it. No party composition, no elemental weaknesses, no decisions about ranged vs. melee combat. No gear decisions that impact combat. Yes, the core combat can be fun, but when it's so basic/stale, it gets boring. I kept waiting for creative or challenging optional bosses but there were literally only two (Atlas and Svarog), and those are only because I was 10-15 levels below them when they unlocked. I don't know what the point is of holding back S-rank hunts that, by the time they unlock, are trivial fights. Not that there were many of them in the first place.
Exploration was so basic and unrewarding. Usually involving combing big samey blobs of map in case there is a random chest there. Which probably contains my 29,3442,807th Bloody Hide and Sharp Fang. Every single interesting landmark is just locked behind some random sidequest so finding it early does nothing. And speaking of quests, man, this game is a perfect example of why it's about quality over quantity. Not in number of quests, but in amount of dialogue. It frankly astonishes me how they can write never-ending conversations between characters about just about nothing to justify me going out and spending 5 seconds killing a random monster. After a certain point I literally just started mashing through quest dialog because it was useless. Obviously I'd give it a chance first, but it usually only takes about 10 second to discern whether it's meaningful character/world building (the blacksmith blues quests etc) or just some filler bullshit. And I don't mind some basic fetch quests here and there; what offends me is having a 20-minute discussion, sometimes sending me around the map to from NPC to NPC for more, each time.
The spectacle of the assault sequences is definitely the best part of the game, and hot take, maybe that should have been the ENTIRE game, lol. But as mentioned by someone else here already, those peak halfway through the story. What remains is just an empty slog of bad writing. REALLY bad writing. If they really wanted to play the Game of Thrones grimdark angle, they at least could have spared me the countless hackneyed clichés and absurdly vacuous speeches repeated ad nauseam for hours and hours. I am used to JRPGs being corny and honestly, I'm fine with it. Hooray the power of friendship, let's stop the big meanie, etc. But the dissonance between the "message" and the overall tone/setting is just too much.
It also doesn't help that the way the story pans out in the final act is actually, not even really jokingly, a bad ripoff of Xenoblade Chronicles 3? I had my issues with that game too, but by golly, if I wanted a pasty-ass self-proclaimed deity to lecture me about Logos, free will, and the power of Origin, that's the game I'd go play. I didn't even care enough by the conclusion to hate the ending, I was just glad it was over. I don't get what they were going for. It feels like such a confused overall experience that ended up failing at both storytelling and general fun. I personally don't see how anyone could rate this highly.
Good music though.
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The new water abilities look cool
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Is this set in the northern land where Jill comes from?
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