So now other people giving arguments in a forum is called being dishonest , huh
Exactly. These people act like we're wrong for choosing to look at all the facts before judging.
So now other people giving arguments in a forum is called being dishonest , huh
Exactly. These people act like we're wrong for choosing to look at all the facts before judging.
About Big Mom's "soul stealing" Power: was It ever showed BM stealing someone's soul? I think that all the times her power was portrait the target had surrendered or ofered his soul to BM
I think it's kind of like how Moria stealing their shadow does more than just take it away from them, it keeps them from ever stepping into sunlight again. So that them giving up a part of their soul manifests as years of their lives lost is more of a side effect of the main thing it's intended to do, and Big Mom doesn't care one way or another.
Since Napoleon, Zeus and Prometheus are projections of her own soul, why can't they just take on whatever form she damn well pleases? They don't have to be things that were animated by excess souls like Homies, they just happen to have the same type of function as Homies, but with vastly greater power, and personalities modeled after her and not the other people whose soul energy fuels them. Although I suspect the reason she keeps demanding more souls from people is that she does need them to power up her Homies who wouldn't be able to keep expending so much incredible power without refueling. Maybe her starvation is also affecting her own soul energy, since she's not only suffering from hunger, but also having to share that energy with her soul projections, so she's literally burning the candle from both ends here. If she doesn't take any soul energy from someone else to restore hers, she won't even have a stop-gap measure to curb her starvation. So she's probably even weaker than we've been thinking so far because of this double drain effect.
Unlike other arcs, the point is not to defeat Big Mom, it is for her reputation to be tarnished. Considering the reactions seems like Oda is doing a good job if one is feeling disappointed by the Big Mom pirates. That's the entire idea.
Personally, I have been waiting for the Straw Hats to perform at this level for a while. The entirety of the New World has been a breeze, and my expectations from the start of the arc was to see the Straw Hats capabilities to escape an emperor's headquarters. Comparing the current Straw Hats to events prior to the time skip is useless because their strength hasn't even been tested. When we see Luffy, Zoro and Sanji take out a pacifista in one hit, did no one ask how would the other Straw Hats handle the PX units.
The destruction on the Sunny is the type of damage I was hoping there would be. Out of the main cast, the Sunny is the only one that can be partially destroyed to serve as a visual effect of how dire situations came to be. If the Sunny keeps receiving damage, it would be a powerful scene once the crew reunites. Not to mention how impressive it was to see Big Mom tear apart Adam wood with her bare hands.
So far, I do not see any plot armor. Everything has been properly set and is being executed well.
@K.:
Unlike other arcs, the point is not to defeat Big Mom, it is for her reputation to be tarnished.
Or that's what Oda wants you to think. There's more Red Herrings in One Piece than landmines in 1990s Bosnia.
One Piece is a manga about "The goal is X, but we end up doing Y". Luffy & co. couldn't care less about what happens to Big Mom. Sanji even repeatedly has said he wants to defeat Big Mom with "flavour". That could very well mean knocking her out, and handing over to Marines/WG so she doesn't threaten people anymore.
The point of the arc was to get Sanji discreetly and leave. That would be the X. The Y is damaging Big mom's reputation by everything that has been done to accomplish X.
Defeating Big Mom is not very interesting. The Straw Hats will ~defeat~ her because they will have accomplished their goals and have the last laugh, but them handing Big Mom to the Government seems to be out of place. At best Stussy has called for reinforcements.
@K.:
Unlike other arcs, the point is not to defeat Big Mom, it is for her reputation to be tarnished. Considering the reactions seems like Oda is doing a good job if one is feeling disappointed by the Big Mom pirates. That's the entire idea.
Personally, I have been waiting for the Straw Hats to perform at this level for a while. The entirety of the New World has been a breeze, and my expectations from the start of the arc was to see the Straw Hats capabilities to escape an emperor's headquarters. Comparing the current Straw Hats to events prior to the time skip is useless because their strength hasn't even been tested. When we see Luffy, Zoro and Sanji take out a pacifista in one hit, did no one ask how would the other Straw Hats handle the PX units.
The destruction on the Sunny is the type of damage I was hoping there would be. Out of the main cast, the Sunny is the only one that can be partially destroyed to serve as a visual effect of how dire situations came to be. If the Sunny keeps receiving damage, it would be a powerful scene once the crew reunites. Not to mention how impressive it was to see Big Mom tear apart Adam wood with her bare hands.
So far, I do not see any plot armor. Everything has been properly set and is being executed well.
No plot armor? Carrot got a powerup out of nowhere. Big Mom has been within arms' reach of the SHs multiple times and none of them have taken any serious damage from her, not even Jinbei in this chapter. This arc is full of plot armor, a shichibukai should still be able to be a moderate threat at this point. Now an emperor and her fleet is being toyed with throughout the entirety of this goose chase around her own home island
The damage control from you guys is ridiculous.
No plot armor? Carrot got a powerup out of nowhere.
I don't like Sulong being shown now neither, but the power up had already been mentioned all the way back in Zou. However, considering that we do not know about how the moon cycles work in One Piece nor how long has it been since the last moon, there isn't much to go at to fault it. Oda is most likely trying to show us a sneak peak on what type of action we are to expect when Wano shows up and the entire race perform their transformation.
Big Mom has been within arms' reach of the SHs multiple times and none of them have taken any serious damage from her, not even Jinbei in this chapter. This arc is full of plot armor,
And the one crew member that can receive damage did. The Sunny is the one that we will see getting torn apart, the other members are not going to sustain damage considering that One Piece is not a story where the main protagonist will lose limbs. It took their entire effort to not lose the ship and push away Big Mom. If the Sunny had not received any sort of damage then that would also be plot armor.
a shichibukai should still be able to be a moderate threat at this point.
Yeah…Buggy is someone to be afraid of. No, the Warlords already left the lime light, but I understand some not seeing it that way. Mango is still thought to have been intimidating.
Now an emperor and her fleet is being toyed with throughout the entirety of this goose chase around her own home island
Exactly, that is well within the Straw Hats abilities. If they were fighting and defeating them, without any injuries that would be something else. Escaping, using tactics to outsmart their enemies. Well withing scope.
People are angered because the Straw Hats weren't decimated and the Sunny wasn't destroyed or something. Just distance yourself from your fixed power scales, which are in truth changing nonstop. Why don't you look at this as a feat for the Straw Hat and not a downplay on a Younko.
"But, but Whitebeard … but, but ... Kaido ..." It's time to stop.
What's the point of being in a younko arc, if you aren't able to at least stand your ground? According to some, there are only a few selected people who could withstand a Big Mom's punch and in all honesty, we should just give a funeral to the weakeling trio at the end of the arc. That's their level and they should stay there, let's the big boys do the talking. Right? Get a grip.
It's not defending, it's just perspective. It was supposedly a stealth mission, but as always it went wrong. That's part of the adventure. It's all about damage limitation now.
Just wait for Wano to see your full attack on Kaido or at least wait for Luffy vs Katakuri. Or better not ... as it won't go down the way you want.
No hard feelings. Peace. :)
People are angered because the Straw Hats weren't decimated and the Sunny wasn't destroyed or something. Just distance yourself from your fixed power scales, which are in truth changing nonstop. Why don't you look at this as a feat for the Straw Hat and not a downplay on a Younko.
"But, but Whitebeard … but, but ... Kaido ..." It's time to stop.
What's the point of being in a younko arc, if you aren't able to at least stand your ground? According to some, there are only a few selected people who could withstand a Big Mom's punch and in all honesty, we should just give a funeral to the weakeling trio at the end of the arc. That's their level and they should stay there, let's the big boys do the talking. Right? Get a grip.
It's not defending, it's just perspective. It was supposedly a stealth mission, but as always it went wrong. That's part of the adventure. It's all about damage limitation now.
Just wait for Wano to see your full attack on Kaido or at least wait for Luffy vs Katakuri. Or better not ... as it won't go down the way you want.
No hard feelings. Peace. :)
Huh funeral for weakling trio? They've already organize Luffy's death after party on OroJackson when he went 1v1 against Katakuri because apparently these guys can't be defeated and any sign of defeat is asspull from Oda.
Huh funeral for weakling trio? They've already organize Luffy's death after party on OroJackson when he went 1v1 against Katakuri because apparently these guys can't be defeated and any sign of defeat is asspull from Oda.
Haha, exactly! :)
The most surprising thing this chapter was the lack knowledge about what "Cognac" is. A lot Youtube reactors didn't know about this fabulous drink. Where are you living? :)
Haha, exactly! :)
The most surprising thing this chapter was the lack knowledge about what "Cognac" is. A lot Youtube reactors didn't know about this fabulous drink. Where are you living? :)
That's because they're Youtubers. :)
Just saying tho, Akainu and Aokiji fought for like 3 days straight right? It seems like Big Mom won't ever last that long fighting anyone. Not saying she's weak, but her stamina seems to be her weak point.
We don't know how often this sickness repeats. And yonkos seem to trounce admirals in less than 3 days. While it may be a weakness, it seems to only stop her from taking down fellow yonkos.
People are angered because the Straw Hats weren't decimated and the Sunny wasn't destroyed or something. Just distance yourself from your fixed power scales, which are in truth changing nonstop. Why don't you look at this as a feat for the Straw Hat and not a downplay on a Younko.
Personally, not angered, I honestly think how the chapter was carried out makes sense in terms of their fighting strength/scale. Big mom hungry, doused in sea water…etc. But I will say certain SHs got a bigger jump in strength post timeskip (cough zoro) vs other SHs in terms of relative growth (relative to their own strength pretimeskip compared to their own strength post timeskip). Zoro now can fend off admirals (though probably won't last long). I do think that now the other SHs need to grow to effectively deal with a noncrazed yonko crew.
If Ussop can learn haki then everyone should get some sort of growth like that. Robin, Chopper and Brook should learn haki. 1.) Robin w/ her DF would be amazing. 2.) Chopper from a character point of view makes sense since he was helpless against a logia in an arc that had personal meaning to him (punk hazard). 3.) Same w/ brook, I feel like he noted logia's abilities during Sabaody arc. Franky and nami have been technology based for a while and think they're okay as long as they develop their tech more. Sanji it goes w/o saying. Just been my personal feeling since fishman island, and Oda seems to reward the fan favorites....
Ya know what, I actually think part of the problem that's being had by many here stems from the actual term 'Yonko' itself, or specifically scanlators using it instead of translating it directly into 'Four Emperors' like it actually means. (and like the official release does, more of y'all should get on that)
Seriously, like 'nakama' before it, Japanese terms left untranslated have a tendency to be ascribed far deeper meanings than what they actually translate to by a western audience, and here, 'Yonko' has taken on connotations of monstrous, unstoppable power. And why shouldn't it? It's a mysterious, foreign sounding, pretty cool sounding new word. It's a new word you've had to learn for a specific group of people, instead of them just being called the four whatevers, and additionally the way the term is introduced to us contextualises it as a descriptor. It's not "we call them the Yonko," it's "they are Yonko," painting it as having an unasailable descriptive meaning, as opposed to just being a name. But because being a Yonko isn't something that has any meaning in English, we make guesses based on context, conjecture and our own theories to find its meaning, and the conclusion many of us came to was of unstoppable raw physical power. These guys must be the the absolute strongest in the world, on a level above mortals or they wouldn't literally have their own word for the level they're on.
And as such the word and anyone the manga applies it to is treated with a kind of reverence by elements of the fanbase here, and when someone it has been applied to has anything less than a godly power level, or is any less than untouchable, well that's a misuse of the very word, Yonko, isn't it?
But when you're introduced to these characters as the Four Emperors instead and know them that way it's a different story. There's no new words there, nothing to really guess at the true meaning and implications of. Those are English words that mean what they mean, and they describe the truth of these characters much better than the assumed meaning of 'Yonko.' The word 'Emperor' implies to us that they are powerful, not strong. Of course that means they're pretty damn strong because this is One Piece, where strength comes with power and except for Buggy the leader of a group will almost always be its strongest member, but that's beside the point. These characters are described as Emperors because they have empires. They're the most politically relevant and dangerous pirates on the ocean with the most resources and the greatest areas of turf and spheres of influence.
And in that capacity, it's a lot harder to really call Big Mom a let down. Maybe her security isn't quite as well coordinated as it should be for a stable empire of this size, but that's a small thing. Between the myriad of named Charlotte kids, the further hoards of unnamed ones appearing consistently in backgrounds and group shots, plus the named and unnamed characters in the subordinate crews married in, Big Mom's forces have more characters than some series' entire casts. A huge part of the conflict in the first half of the arc was her ability to have a man on the other side of the world assassinated at a moment's notice. In fleeing her now, it's an overnight trip just to reach the edge of her territory - compared to when half the crew were running from Doflamingo and it was just a matter of leaving Dressrosa. And this serves perceptions of her children well too. Smoothie, to name a popular example, might not have achieved much as a high-ranking underling to a Yonko, because we assume the top three officers to a Yonko have to be the next best thing to being a Yonko. But as a high-ranking subordinate to an Emperor, the expectations are different. Strength is still expected, because of the power = strength thing mentioned above, but it's no longer the only thing to justify her association with Big Mom; we can accept more easily that maybe she's just meant to be another cog in the machine of one of the world's largest criminal empires.
And as a matter of author intent, I'm certain leaving the word 'Yonko' in the English version to be interpreted as it has doesn't reflect Oda's intended reading experience at all. Japanese readers didn't have to learn a new word and guess at meanings when these characters were introduced, and English readers shouldn't have had to either. Not when the word used has such a direct and easy translation.
TLDR your Yonko hype is dead because it was wrong to begin with, scanlators and your own assumptions mislead you, they should be the Four Emperors in English, read the official release if you can
That's because they're Youtubers. :)
I did! And I don't drink! #Sober4Life :ninja:
But seriously, Jimbei may have really lost his left arm to that move! Fishman with a hook maybe?
Damn i needed more than a day to come down. I needed Youtube reviewer whom talk positively about this chapter and i only read comments and reviews which were defending the chapter, because i dont wanted to hate the stuff that happened. But after all the videos and reviews, im still disapointed. Its not a dicision i made, my body told me to be disappointed and that disappointment hit me at the core of my passion for the series. I wouldnt exaggerate when i write that i lost a huge amount of passion and interest with this chapter and thats hard for me because OP is pretty much the only series i cared about.
But it kinda helps that pretty much everyone else likes and loved the chapter. But im just sitting here thinking where is the threat now in facing a Yonko. Even though i know exactly that they cant beat Big Mom and that Oda nerfed her and her crew plus making them incompetent plus making the SH have luck on their site. Making them Big Mom pirates competent or even involve them then the Strawhats wouldnt escape, so its kinda a given that they needed to be nerfed. But on the other site, i feel that its also needed that they should be displayed as a huge threat, which is not the case right now. Which is a letdown, because they are actually a huge threat. Big Mom was that threat for me, so i didnt really care about the others whom just let their Mama deal with the situation alone, but she messed it up too. Even though i know and see that she still does impressive stuff, still shows impressive feats and looks absolutely amazing, fierce, savage and even badass(ripping the Sunny open…what a panel) it still feels underwhelming.
Since i read that Jinbe could have lost his left forearm, i kinda felt better about the whole situation. On the other side, i dont like the idea of him losing an arm, so...
But he is most likely pretty much ok. But it is indeed kinda suspicious how Oda hided his left arm and how he holds the helm at the end of the chapter. Would atleast bring some danger back. I think that Monster Chopper and Jinbe should have tagteamed her instead of Jinbe alone. Chopper needs some kind of shining moment too. Its indeed kinda questionable why he is even a Strawhat at this point. The tag team effort would have had a shining moment for Chopper and Jinbe plus it wouldnt undermine Big Mom that much. But whatever...who knows where Oda is going with this. But i personally need Big Mom to be a huge threat in order to recover from my disappointment. Jinbe losing an Arms or atleast having some kind of wound would be a step towards it. Because it is not just Big Mom it was a full on 4 vs 4. Napoleon, Zeus and Prometheus can act on their own, but they manage to take out Zeus which leaves us with 3 vs 4. And we can assume that she gets less dangerous the more special homies she loses. Not weaker, but less dangerous. Prometheus shouldnt be that much of a problem for Jinbe, so very soon its 2 vs 4, but if she loses Prometheus then her last travel-pet is gone. So if she doesnt have anything up her sleeve then we are pretty much safe and i dont know if i would like that. But we will se how things will go.
My personal headcanon is that she saw a nice cloud one day and ordered Perospero to get it for her.
Then Perospero just delegated it further down the line until someone with a connection got him a milky dial
It most likely is cloud from sky island. Because big mom can stand on it.
And nami can touch it.
Ps. Is prometheus burning big mom? If not how on earth can zeus do it?
@Takto, BM is weaker, even her kids have never seen her like this. She’s finding it difficult to breathe and she can’t control her DF. This was shown when Peros made comment about her breathing and the way the bombs were running amok. That was a terrific showing for her in that state.
A good comparison is hungry and shriveled up Luffy, how much can he faired against Brûlée or Bobbins? Also, BM was not looking to kill them, all she wanted is cake. And don’t worry, before they can damage Prometheus, the cake will be there.
Monster chopper would have been an insult to BM considering how easily Luffy himself handled it and the giant kids did damage to it.
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It most likely is cloud from sky island. Because big mom can stand on it.
And nami can touch it.
Ps. Is prometheus burning big mom? If not how on earth can zeus do it?
Zeus didn’t attack BM, Nami did using the amplified charges from Zeus.
@Count:
As if it's too much to expect a series' surreality to be logically consistent in how its portrayed throughout the story no matter how unrealistic the concept is.
At this point in the story? it absolutely is.
No she didn't. There were giant flames in front of her.
Yes she did. Her soul exited her body, then crossed a distance in front of her to get to the flames. Therefore theres nothing unreasonable about her doing that to a cloud.
At this point in the story? it absolutely is.
Not when it can get a quick and easy explanation. I'm not even saying that Zeus' creation should be impossible, only that it's difficult to tell what the exact source for a talking cloud entity could be. It's just something I wonder about. Hence why I say I hope it gets answered in an SBS. It's only a nitpick on my mind.
Yes she did. Her soul exited her body, then crossed a distance in front of her to get to the flames. Therefore theres nothing unreasonable about her doing that to a cloud.
So the distance between Carmel and the fire can be equated to the distance between the ground and the sky? Is that correct? I guess Luffy can infinitely stretch then. Don't see why he needed a boat to get to Skypiea when he could have supposedly stretched his arms to reach the island clouds, going by your logic.
Big Mom took a portion of her soul, and tossed that sum'bitch like a fastball from hell into a cloud. Problem solved.
@S.C.:
Big Mom took a portion of her soul, and tossed that sum'bitch like a fastball from hell into a cloud. Problem solved.
This should be the official explanation. I'm going to stick to this.
@Joy:
Kaido is gonna fight against Luffy and some other top Supernova, he won't get stop by freaking Chopper, Nami and Brook. That is a big difference.
Can you provide some citation for that?
I honestly hope Kaido fights while drunk in some part of the Wano arc
I was unaware of this discussion about Jinbe losing an arm until now. I have a weak spot for designs with just one arm, so I would love it.
As for BM, I think I get what Takto is saying. It is not that it doesn't make sense what we just saw, it's more about the way she was presented. Yeah, there are a lot of specific conditions and attenuating factors in play here to justify that group being able to push BM away and dealing with her the way they did, but at the end of the day the impression it will leave in the reader is just "Jinbe, Nami, Chopper and Brook can hold their own against Big Mom. Under ideal conditions, whatever, but they can".
It makes sense, there are a lot of explanations that can be given, but overall impressions don't usually rely on rationalizations and detailed explanations. That's why I hope BM will still own everyone's ass, so we can have the crew being useful and amazing on their own but not at the expense of her image and the way someone of her position is supposed to be depicted.
@Joy:
Thing is if I see some bullshit like we saw in this chapter I'm going to criticize it.
No, you would call bullshit when Oda isn't living up to your own personal standards of what a character's strength is supposed to be.
Yonkous aren't portrayed as gods. You just like to think so based on some arbitrary scale.
You just like to wipe out your dick-measuring contest every-time there is a battle, and ignore all the context behind it.
One Piece is not DBZ. Stop pretending that it is.
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@Joy:
Yeah and somehow they grew strong enough to deal with a Yonko without a sweat. What the hell.
OVER THE COURSE OF 2 YEARS.
I comparing the difference in portrayal each villain has gotten
WHAT ???!?!?!? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? /
Are you suggesting that every villain has different portrayal because they have different powers and abilities ? That Oda isn't simply copying DBZ with each villain being the same except simply more powerful ?
Well shit, color me surprised .
The trollcontrol is not on point. Hahahahahahahahahaha a starving not owned bigmom is looking so bad hahahahahahahahaha
@Count:
Not when it can get a quick and easy explanation. I'm not even saying that Zeus' creation should be impossible, only that it's difficult to tell what the exact source for a talking cloud entity could be. It's just something I wonder about. Hence why I say I hope it gets answered in an SBS. It's only a nitpick on my mind.
I'm much more interested in finding out where she found a hat that turns into at least 2 types of swords, and can even stretch the sword's length! What the hell was that, maaan? I'm really curious!
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@.access:
I was unaware of this discussion about Jinbe losing an arm until now. I have a weak spot for designs with just one arm, so I would love it.
Oda drew Doflamingo gruesomely cut Law's arm off, only for Leo to sew it back a couple of chapters later. He is not going to offpanel Jinbe, a future Straw Hat, losing an arm. This is "Zoro lost an arm during the TS" all over again after the first post-TS colour spread.
One perspective that's important to consider is how it isn't necessarily Big Mom being portrayed as too weak, but previous villains being too strong. In particular Doflamingo.
For example, look at the way they use their abilities and how the Strawhats chose to counter it. Big Mom has one of the most hax powers we've seen, and while the exact restrictions are unknown we've learned of many logical weaknesses across the arc. The Strawhats make note of these facts and use their abilities to counter hers. They also help each other out, keeping true to the series theme of camaraderie. It's a compelling type of fight. Compare this to Dressrosa. Doflamingo started out with one of the coolest powers, but then got ridiculous abilities out of nowhere like string clones and awakening. This made it hard for the reader to know his limits. He also had no real weakness, so Oda had to settle for the old "let's underestimate the strawhats" with Luffy beating him simply by brute force. This is especially apparent by how Doffy never even attempted to use his talent for manipulation (arguably his signature trait pre-Dressrosa) and parasite (arguably his most iconic ability) against the Strawhats or Law. It's not creative or fun at all.
Another related point is that the crew members have been treated so much better. Just compare Robin's performance in Dressrosa to Nami in this arc. I'd rather have Nami land a blow on a Yonko over Robin baby-sitting a useless princess.
I'm worried about Big Mom and her crew being portrayed as the weakest of the Emperors. If she's defeated for good this arc, I'll be seriously disappointed. But the way this arc has played out, the fights and the characters, it's been written in such a fun way I've fallen in love with the series all over again. It's creative, surprising and compelling, making me want to see what the character will do next. So even if she does ends up the weakest Yonko she'll hopefully remain one of the most lovable. I know I'll return to this arc several times to look for inspiration.
Oda drew Doflamingo gruesomely cut Law's arm off, only for Leo to sew it back a couple of chapters later. He is not going to offpanel Jinbe, a future Straw Hat, losing an arm. This is "Zoro lost an arm during the TS" all over again after the first post-TS colour spread.
But it still can work. Maybe Oda didnt want to ruin the mood by showing negative things in this chapter. He wanted to focus on the strawhats having shining moments and have them in a celebration mood, kinda. So in the next chapter its Big Moms moment and he starts this by strawhats noticing that Jinbe is wounded or really is missing an arm. Well it actually works pretty well in my head ^^
Some people keep ragging on Joy Boy like he's wrong lol.
I think some people are starting to get it though. Big Mom is a yonkz and she's being portrayed as a very strong Shishibukai at best. Even Doffy had a more badass display, he was never toyed with by any of the weaklings only the strongest ever came head on with him.
That said. Katakuri is certainly one of the strongest commanders we have seen to date so we cant say Big Moms entire crew is portrayed poorly. I would say Katakuri is the best portrayed badass even if he gets defeated by Luffy.
Cracker (tbh) was fodder. He haxxed his DF but if you break past the biscuits Luffy KO him with ONE HIT. Luffy said Look Ma no hands! And defeated cracker with his stomach. smh
But Big Mom is not the only Yonko without dignity. BB is also portrayed as a disgrace. He is writhing in pain when Ace hits him with fire and he cries when WB hits him. The difference there though is that he is being attacked by WB and Ace, not Nami and Chopper.
For everyone trying to defend Big Mom after falling on her face from Nami's attack though, I guess if Nami gets Zeus then she will end up being one strong mf cuz she can throw down a Yonko. I do give Nami mad props for being the first SH to hurt a Yonko
Edit:
Some of the best feats of BM to her credit:
Destroying Rocket Launchers into dust with a scream
Getting up from a giant lightning strike from Zeus that fodderized her army
Being the leader of an entire region in the New World
I'm much more interested in finding out where she found a hat that turns into at least 2 types of swords, and can even stretch the sword's length! What the hell was that, maaan? I'm really curious!
Same here. Napoleon is so quirky. And I really like it, but still.
Ya know what, I actually think part of the problem that's being had by many here stems from the actual term 'Yonko' itself, or specifically scanlators using it instead of translating it directly into 'Four Emperors' like it actually means. (and like the official release does, more of y'all should get on that)
Hahaha! #respect Captain M!
I think that Napoleon is just like Spandam's Funkfreed (elephant sword)
It is probs a df that was either fed to a sword or a hat
Honestly I kind of wish that BM's three main homies had the food theme to them too
Napoleon is a kind of cake, Zeus could be Eclair (pastry and also french for lightning), and I'm sure there's something you could find for Prometheus
@Count:
Same here. Napoleon is so quirky. And I really like it, but still.
Oda probably changed the swords appearance as a tribute to Sword-Sama, Towel-Samas buddy.
I'm much more interested in finding out where she found a hat that turns into at least 2 types of swords, and can even stretch the sword's length! What the hell was that, maaan? I'm really curious!
@Count:
Same here. Napoleon is so quirky. And I really like it, but still.
I think that Napoleon is just like Spandam's Funkfreed (elephant sword)
It is probs a df that was either fed to a sword or a hat
Oda probably changed the swords appearance as a tribute to Sword-Sama, Towel-Samas buddy.
About Napoleon, I'm starting to no longer think of it as a swiss army knife. Partially because Big Mom told him to "change" into a blade instead of "switch" into one. Well assuming the translation is correct I gotta check back to VIZ's version. The other part because of how it was seen growing in this chapter and how seemingly its eyes can be where ever it wants.
Maybe it was born in the last couple years? Shape shifting Wopal metal anyone? Probably resting in the fabric of the bicorne hat. Or the outside is just painted like napoleon ice cream and the whole thing is actually metal.
We have seen Big Mom's crew keeping an eye out on special weapons during the broadcast of the Land of the Dead. So maybe just maybe Napoleon is a hunk of soul infused Wapol Metal/Wine Steel/maybe that special quake/devil fruit resistance stuff at Marineford. Assuming all those things are the same product of Wapol.
@Zar:
theme of camaraderie
My biggest problem regarding camaraderie is that until now we didn't have any enemy group which came even remotely close to the Strawhats. The Big Mom Pirates are as dysfunctional as a group as it's possible. Sure, their captain is a five year old womanchild, but I'd expected that at least the rest of the organisation would work together way better. And while the Doflamingo Pirates weren't as dysfunctional, they however weren't anything special either. I don't want to see the Strawhats beating some at best decent teamwork with their good camaraderie. I want to see them beat some world class teamwork with their absolutely awesome and beyond anything camaraderie.
Unfortunately in that regard I'm not too optimistic for the Beast Pirates or the Blackbeard Pirates. Sadly… As the former mostly seem to rely on brute strength whereas the latter solely rely on fate without any regards of giving any shit if a comrade doesn't live up due to their fate.
@Zar:
I'm worried about Big Mom and her crew being portrayed as the weakest of the Emperors. If she's defeated for good this arc, I'll be seriously disappointed.
Well, whereas I'm not afraid she'll get fully defeated, I nevertheless don't like her recent portrayal. I have no problem with the weaker Strawhats being able to shine, however, I don't like the development of her getting weaker and weaker due to starvation. I don't want the Strawhats to shine against a permanently decaying former shadow of Big Mom. I want them to deal with a Big Mom at the very peak of his strength. In a believable way, of course, which I admit is difficult, but really nothing I wouldn't trust Oda to deliver. She may not be the weakest Yonko, but unfortunately she's portrayed somewhat underwhelming and underperforming… despite being still kickass in a way - I don't neglect that.
@Zar:
to look for inspiration.
What exactly are you working at?
Some people keep ragging on Joy Boy like he's wrong lol.
He is certainly not right.
I think some people are starting to get it though. Big Mom is a yonkz and she's being portrayed as a very strong Shishibukai at best. Even Doffy had a more badass display, he was never toyed with by any of the weaklings only the strongest ever came head on with him.
Can doffy bends Adam Wood like a piece of paper?
That said. Katakuri is certainly one of the strongest commanders we have seen to date so we cant say Big Moms entire crew is portrayed poorly. I would say Katakuri is the best portrayed badass even if he gets defeated by Luffy.
Cracker (tbh) was fodder. He haxxed his DF but if you break past the biscuits Luffy KO him with ONE HIT. Luffy said Look Ma no hands! And defeated cracker with his stomach. smh
A bit off-topic, but isn't pretty obvious that Katakuri is above Doflamingo at this point? How is BM warlord level then?
And HAVE YOU FORGOT THAT NAMI WAS THERE TO SOFT THE BISCUITS! Do you think Luffy could had beaten Cracker alone?
But Big Mom is not the only Yonko without dignity. BB is also portrayed as a disgrace. He is writhing in pain when Ace hits him with fire and he cries when WB hits him. The difference there though is that he is being attacked by WB and Ace, not Nami and Chopper.
For everyone trying to defend Big Mom after falling on her face from Nami's attack though, I guess if Nami gets Zeus then she will end up being one strong mf cuz she can throw down a Yonko. I do give Nami mad props for being the first SH to hurt a Yonko
I don't think dignity has anything to do with that. 2 years ago, BB was not that much above a Supernova. BM was taken by surprise by attacks that took advantage of her won powers like Brook Soul abilities and Nami Weather Abilities.
It's like the hundreth time I bring this up and yet you think Chopper did shit. All he did was use Guard Point.
But the fact that they have advantage in both abilities and terrain, people think Nami, Brook and Chopper are only one tier below BM.
Have you ever thought how it would be if there was like just one of them fighting BM not in a ship in the middle of the ocean with a former warlord that happens to be a fishman and she wasnt weakened by hunger? Read the atmosphere.
I agree Doflamingo was way too overpowered to the point it was ridiculous and it made some fans expect that everyone should be Aizen-tier from now on.
But I constantly see people ignoring that the one leading SHs currently is Jinbe. Jinbe one of the Shichibukai, probably endgame top 4 of the SHs who likely already reached his prime. The guy who saved SHs three times so far during the chase (at least), two times this chapter alone. He definitely should be able to put a fight against a Yonkou, especially if he's backed up by other people. But no, it's "weaklings", some specialists in ignoring stuff even talk about "Nami and Chopper", even though this chapter Chopper only defended against one attack (that seemingly was supposed to be just grab) and Nami only gets a hit after getting help from Brook.
On the topic of Brook, where did people take the idea of him being a weakling? He cries and is scared a lot, but he's proven times and times again that it's not effect of his abilities being lacking. Post-timeskp he isn't included among "weakling trio" by Usopp, in Zou Nami cries for him to help when trouble starts, Sanji asks him to go with him when meeting Bege and Pekoms while leaving Nami and Chopper behind, implying bigger trust in his abilities, Oda states in SBS he's the fastest SH etc. Brook is plenty strong. Jora did get him in DR, but even Zoro got taken by surprise by Yeti brothers back in PH, or years before in Little Garden. We also didn't see battle against Perospero, but we know Brook was fighting whole army just a moment before, it's very likely to be a result of attack from behind and/or while Brook was busy.
I think that Napoleon is just like Spandam's Funkfreed (elephant sword)
It is probs a df that was either fed to a sword or a hat
Even though BM already said it was a Homie made out of her soul?
I'm just randomly commenting on some of the things Im reading in thread but can anyone please explain the issue that people are having with the Sunny team stalling Big Mom? She's starving (so obviously not at full strength) the Sunny team happen to have abilities and attributes that grant them an advantage against her homies, Jimbei is in his element which is also a weakness of BM since she's a devil fruit user and he even soaked her in sea water prior to her being struck by lightning. Then after all of those things the SH still only stalled her temporarily. I mean what do people want? The non monster trio SH as a collective to be so weak that they can't even buy time with all variables in their favor? Christ we're 20 years into this series, sorry to break it to you but the top tiers are starting to be engaged by the SH as highly difficult but surmountable enemies
^this a thousand times
Honestly a lot of the complaining will probably blow over in the next few chapters when the battle continues and Big Mom turns the tables. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much impact in Sanji saving the day with the cake. So it's pretty silly to judge this fight as a whole when we've only gotten the first part of it.
My biggest problem regarding camaraderie is that until now we didn't have any enemy group which came even remotely close to the Strawhats. The Big Mom Pirates are as dysfunctional as a group as it's possible. Sure, their captain is a five year old womanchild, but I'd expected that at least the rest of the organisation would work together way better. And while the Doflamingo Pirates weren't as dysfunctional, they however weren't anything special either. I don't want to see the Strawhats beating some at best decent teamwork with their good camaraderie. I want to see them beat some world class teamwork with their absolutely awesome and beyond anything camaraderie.
Unfortunately in that regard I'm not too optimistic for the Beast Pirates or the Blackbeard Pirates. Sadly… As the former mostly seem to rely on brute strength whereas the latter solely rely on fate without any regards of giving any shit if a comrade doesn't live up due to their fate.
Well, whereas I'm not afraid she'll get fully defeated, I nevertheless don't like her recent portrayal. I have no problem with the weaker Strawhats being able to shine, however, I don't like the development of her getting weaker and weaker due to starvation. I don't want the Strawhats to shine against a permanently decaying former shadow of Big Mom. I want them to deal with a Big Mom at the very peak of his strength. In a believable way, of course, which I admit is difficult, but really nothing I wouldn't trust Oda to deliver. She may not be the weakest Yonko, but unfortunately she's portrayed somewhat underwhelming and underperforming... despite being still kickass in a way - I don't neglect that.
I think the fact that the Straw Hats have had to work together this much just to take on a single sickly opponent is actually a pretty good testament to Big Mom's abilities. Even though it might be cool, I just don't see a full-out battle between Straw Hats working together and Big Mom Pirates working together realistically ending in anything other than the Straw Hats' destruction. We got a bit of a taste of the Straw Hats working with their allies to fight the Big Mom Pirates at the end of the tea party, and it didn't end well. Then in Chapters 877/878, the Big Mom Pirates were effectively able to work together to besiege the Straw Hats on the coast, and only failed because Pedro sacrificed himself and Luffy pulled their second-strongest combatant into the Mirro-World.
The fact that they're now fighting a weakened Big Mom, in an environment that heavily favors them, and she's still a lot stronger physically than their strongest guy onboard, and they haven't been able to do anything more than push her and harm her homies with their own attacks, should serve as a wake-up call to how strong the Yonko are and the lengths they have to go to be able to beat Kaido. Especially once Big Mom turns the tables on them.
Well, whereas I'm not afraid she'll get fully defeated, I nevertheless don't like her recent portrayal. I have no problem with the weaker Strawhats being able to shine, however, I don't like the development of her getting weaker and weaker due to starvation. I don't want the Strawhats to shine against a permanently decaying former shadow of Big Mom. I want them to deal with a Big Mom at the very peak of his strength. In a believable way, of course, which I admit is difficult, but really nothing I wouldn't trust Oda to deliver. She may not be the weakest Yonko, but unfortunately she's portrayed somewhat underwhelming and underperforming… despite being still kickass in a way - I don't neglect that.
My best case scenario would be if they only manage to run away from her this arc, and then she comes back in full force during a later arc like Elbaf. I agree that seeing them fight her at peak strength would be amazing. All of the strawhats as well, not just half the crew.
What exactly are you working at?
Mostly for my own art. I hope to become a comic artist one day so analyzing at what I like (and don't like for that matter) is important. So far this is my favorite arc post time skip so I hope I can bring what I like here into my own works.
@Kaido:
Even though it might be cool, I just don't see a full-out battle between Straw Hats working together and Big Mom Pirates working together realistically ending in anything other than the Straw Hats' destruction.
Yeah, that's true for sure. However, the teamwork I mean doesn't have to be restricted on direct combat situations. Of course, especially considering the crew split, the Strawhats' main objective had to be to avoid a direct confrontation at any costs. For example, Opera: I get that he's afraid of Big Mom, but why had he also completely refuse to talk to anyone else. Okay, unrealistic fanfiction incoming: He could have phoned with Smoothie and she does not only not make him the culprit, but they share a deep sibling-bond as everyone does in the Charlotte family, and everyone else of the children work together in order to clean the situation as swift as possible - led by the goddamn commanders, or as Katakuri hadn't arrived yet, led by goddamn Smoothie.
I really like Totland arc as a whole, but there are quite a few things I don't like. The missing bond and thereof resulting teamwork of the Charlotte children is one glaring issue.
No, you would call bullshit when Oda isn't living up to your own personal standards of what a character's strength is supposed to be.
Yonkous aren't portrayed as gods. You just like to think so based on some arbitrary scale.
You just like to wipe out your dick-measuring contest every-time there is a battle, and ignore all the context behind it.
Lmao. It's not my own fantasies as you say. Big Mom isn't living to the the standards Oda presented about the Yonko. When WB deals with VAs like they are some ants, when he tilts MF, when he severely injuries Akainu and when he beats Teach with half his face and a huge hole in his chest, while Kaido falls from the heavens and fodderizes 3 supernova crews like nothing, well yeah I'm going to call bullshit on Big Mom completely failing to do anything against Nami, Chopper and Brook 3 fucking times.
One Piece is not DBZ. Stop pretending that it is.
Never pretended it is. Doesn't mean it was this inconsistent when it came to powers.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
**> OVER THE COURSE OF 2 YEARS.
SO NAMI AND CHOPPER OVER THE COURSE OF 2 YEARS GREW STRONG ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH SOMEONE THAT HAS BEEN AT THE TOP FOR DECADES WHILE 2 ARCS PRIOR THOSE 2 WERE SCARED SHITLESS OF DOFLAMINGO. WOW SUCH GREAT WRITING**
WHAT ???!?!?!? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? /
Are you suggesting that every villain has different portrayal because they have different powers and abilities ? That Oda isn't simply copying DBZ with each villain being the same except simply more powerful ?
Well shit, color me surprised .
Well shit you can't be this.. Nevermind I'll get banned if I insult you
I am suggesting that Oda managed to make every antagonist look threatening. Why ? Because he had them succeed in some things. Big Mom on the other hand has failed each and every single time. That's a difference in portrayal. Those looked threatening and were and Big Mom simply ins't threatening anymore after all the failures she's been handed in this arc.
Really off-topic, but seriously man, you're a coward. When you insult someone, you can either stick with it or apologize, you can't just erase and pretend it never happened.
Really off-topic, but seriously man, you're a coward. When you insult someone, you can either stick with it or apologize, you can't just erase and pretend it never happened.
The whole forum has jumped on me because I don't suck Oda's dick with this kind of writing as most do here and I am the one that's the coward ?