Souls Games thread

GuetaMinute

Your horse is immune to poison, and you can run past damn near everything. There is almost no fighting you actually need to do there. There's a couple bosses out of league in the section but you should be more than capable of dealing with it at 70, I was playing around in it super early.

I knew I was clearly not supposed to be there, but I was able to survive and get gear and beat up some of the weaker dungeons and bosses without much trouble.

99% of the time you are not meant to fight everything in your way, you can almost always run past, it takes enemies time to notice you and get up and start attacking.

Oh yes, I need to clear more of Caelid, I meant that I felt I’m not ready yet for the Altus Plateau. I do need to explore Caelid more. Already did a quest there and got Guts’ sword as well.

Nolus

Just be careful with some enemies that can snipe you from across the map. I don't think there's any in Caelid, but there are in other places and it can be mighty unpleasant when they either one-hit kill* you, or knock you off your horse.

I'm still going strong with my first character (taking my time, enjoying the ride), and when I'm done, I think I'm gonna write a little review before I start a new character. I have a lot of thoughts I want to share (some positive, some negative) and I'm curious about others' opinions.

The Franky Tank

I'm at that point in my playthrough where I've done quite enough exploring and want to make actual progress, and my fear of this game being open world has started to come to fruition. It's nice that there's some guidance to be like "important thing to do over here", but there are multiple places where it feels like I've looked from top to bottom and cannot figure out what it wants me to do. There are also a few places that need a certain key item and outside one hint for one place, I have no idea where to look. I'm going to give myself another 5 to 10 hours and if I can't figure it out, I'll have to get a guide to figure out where to go.

tatermoog

@The:

It's nice that there's some guidance to be like "important thing to do over here", but there are multiple places where it feels like I've looked from top to bottom and cannot figure out what it wants me to do.

I for the most part thoroughly enjoyed my first trip through the game, but this is the part where I'm surprised I haven't seen more criticism. For all the mocking of Ubisoft open-world guidance bloat, I'm not sure a great solution is "hide a key on a random island that an easily-missed NPC might hint at" or "unlock the next part of this NPC storyline by talking to another NPC you have no reason to expect knows."

It was always irksome in the Souls games, but when there's a massive map to go with it, the problem is certainly compounded.

The Franky Tank

@tatermoog:

I for the most part thoroughly enjoyed my first trip through the game, but this is the part where I'm surprised I haven't seen more criticism. For all the mocking of Ubisoft open-world guidance bloat, I'm not sure a great solution is "hide a key on a random island that an easily-missed NPC might hint at" or "unlock the next part of this NPC storyline by talking to another NPC you have no reason to expect knows."

It was always irksome in the Souls games, but when there's a massive map to go with it, the problem is certainly compounded.

Previous souls games did trip me up with figuring out what to do, but for the most part you could find your way forward after some searching. Though in my case in each From game I've played there was at least one moment I needed a guide to point me in the right direction. With Elden Ring I can tell I am going to need to look at a guide to figure out where to go next. While I wasn't as big into the game, I feel like Breath of the Wild did it best with a minimal amount of points on the map and being able to turn it on and off when you wanted. I'm guessing Elden Ring gets a pass because fans are so used to the cryptic nature of the games that they see this as par for the course.

At the end of the day it will be a game I like a lot, but I think even when I beat the game I will still prefer Bloodborne and Sekiro over it.

Nolus

I would say when it comes to the main quest, it's fairly straightforward most of the time, but the side quests are as cryptic as ever. Like, there was a point when I has a pretty good idea where the next step would be, went there, found nothing. Turns out I was supposed to go a little further and do a summoning to progress the quest.

Robby

Whis is what a million players banging their heads against the wall and leaving notes are for. No one is supposed to discover everything on their own.

The Franky Tank

I feel like the messages can be helpful in very specific ways. Like there was a puzzle where I had to activate three things and the last one was hidden and a note helped me figure out when I was in front of the object to hit. When it comes to needing a specific key item at a place, notes can't give specifics on what to do, so you have to hope you eventually find what you need. So far it hasn't been a huge issue, but I did have to look up a guide because I needed to know how to get a key item for the Library to reach that one tower, and if I hadn't looked that up I would've been searching forever.

On another note, every time I think I'm past the "look how pretty this looks", something else pops up. There was a boss fight where the 2nd phase changed the look of the arena and it looked so beautiful. For those wondering which one I'm talking about.

! The 2nd phase of the boss in the academy

Nolus

I'm currently at

! Haligtree

and fucking hell, how can you make so many distinct and beautiful sights? Although my favourite is still one of the underground places.

For those of you wondering:

! Nokron

I also can't help but smile when I backstab a soldier that would otherwise sound a horn to alert nearby enemies, while the aforementioned enemies are just looking me dead in the eye in the process, weapons drawn but unmoving.

TLC

@Robby:

Whis is what a million players banging their heads against the wall and leaving notes are for. No one is supposed to discover everything on their own.

In the case of some walls, banging their heads 50 times.

!

Robby

@TLC:

In the case of some walls, banging their heads 50 times.

!

That particular one is apparently a coding glitch, and not an intended secret.

But now that its been discovered and is a "known secret" who knows if they'll patch it out.

Marcotty

Just some of my own rambling thoughts on things. Just getting past the Capital City into the mountains and I'm in the level 110s. Split of Dex/Faith build (primarily dex) with duel katanas and lots of incantations (love them). Also have a dedicated separate strike weapon for when I need it instead of sticking with my main. Some red hammer that I forgot the name.

I'm the type that systematically explore every corner of the map to try to not miss anything and have to kill everything at least once, so I have a bit of a high tolerance against open world fatigue. However, even I started getting tired of exploring the wetlands or lake or whatever around the Academy in Liurnia. Only time I've started thinking "Why am I killing every octopus/flower/shrimp? It's not worth it."

The NPC questlines are definitely a bit frustrating to deal with in the game. Many times it feels like there was no reason for me to figure out where they moved next, but I guess a lot of those phases are skippable and they just move on to the next stage anyway. Maybe it's gotten easier now that they put icons for NPCs on the map so you can track if they've moved? But it's definitely not the greatest. One of my friends didn't even get the spirit summoning bell until they'd made it to the Atlas Plateau and finally asked us.

One thing I've made note of is a lot of people forget about the talismans that increase stats, but also increase damage to you (scarseal/soreseals). I've personally made due with it by usually having some strong armor, but my friends insist on being as low weight as possible and still run the things. Sometimes you just gotta take it off to beat a boss. I've hit the point only a couple times, but it won't surprise me if I take it off for good if late game starts getting hard. The stat buffs may be great, but oof did it makes a few things a lot easier not having it on.

Granted, I also play the game with my Great Rune active at least 95% of the time. Still using Godrick's. As soon as I realized how easy grinding rune arcs was offering my services as summonable boss assist, I just made my entire regular gaming session around almost always having my Rune active. I only leave it off if I'm at a boss that's gonna take a lot of tries.

Robby

@Marcotty:

One thing I've made note of is a lot of people forget about the talismans that increase stats, but also increase damage to you (scarseal/soreseals).

The health based ones at least, math out to take the same number of hits to die as long as your vigor stat before amulet is 35 or below, and possibly even let you tank an extra hit. After that the vitality levels start getting diminishing returns and its not as great but there's really no reason to not have it on for basically a free 20 levels until you pass that mark.. (It falls off a lot after 40, and REALLY falls off after 50… if you're at that point the talisman is iffy.)

The magic ones though... yeah, they make you squisher in trade for damage and you need to keep an eye on those.

DoctorPhil

Since we're talking talismans, can we all agree the equipment load talimsans are an absolute godsend, the best talismans by far? I have some others I wear for some stamina or some strength I guess. But this bro is always staying on.

And yeah, I'm the kind of player who cares a lot about the story in a single player game. I want to be totally immersed in every part of the setting. I'm not a completionist as far as gameplay goes, but I'm a total completionist when it comes to hearing every single line of dialogue. And when sidequests are so obscure I can miss entire segments if I don't do some obscure thing I'll gladly look up guides. The sad part is that often ends up spoiling me a lot, but I have to. Cryptic simple template messages can't tell me where an NPC shows up next.

Also Zoraya is best girl and must be protected at all costs.

Nolus

I just put enough levels on Endurance to switch that talisman to something else. It did carry my stupid fashion-souls butt up till this point though.

Marcotty

Finished up first run after systematically doing everything possible. Ended up level 164 and still had a hard time with the final boss. Here's my loadout if interested.

! Disclaimer: I had to change out the soreseal for the holy damage negation for the Final Boss cause I just could not deal with things otherwise.

DarthAsthma

Close to finished with this game and my very flaming hot take is that this game was too much of a good thing somehow, which I don't think a game has ever made me feel. It's like even before heading into the final stretch it feels like I played 2 full dark souls games content wise. It's been a stellar experience but also somehow I wouldn't say no to a lil bit smaller elden ring 2 and trade of the size difference for less doubling on bosses and whatever else the freed up resources from not having to fill 30% more map allows.

Robby

@DarthAsthma:

Close to finished with this game and my very flaming hot take is that this game was too much of a good thing somehow, which I don't think a game has ever made me feel. It's like even before heading into the final stretch it feels like I played 2 full dark souls games content wise. It's been a stellar experience but also somehow I wouldn't say no to a lil bit smaller elden ring 2 and trade of the size difference for less doubling on bosses and whatever else the freed up resources from not having to fill 30% more map allows.

EVERY open world game is going to wear you out if you do EVERYTHING. From Okami to Skyrim to Horizon to Ghost of Tsushima to this one. They don't expect you to do ever last thing on the map, and certainly not in 6 weeks. Something like this intends for you to play through a couple different times and do diferent builds and find new stuff every time.

The game probably is just a bit too big, I hear a lot of people burning out on the repeat bosses and dungeons… but the game's only been out for 6 weeks. Pout 150-200 hours into any game in that time and you'll get tired.

Though on second runs just doing what you need to make your build and what you want will be 6-10 hour runs and those should be amazing. I started a second character with a completely different build, mules my weapons over via a friend, got them to level 40 within 2 hours and was off to the races, its great.

kevo_koma

@DarthAsthma:

Close to finished with this game and my very flaming hot take is that this game was too much of a good thing somehow, which I don't think a game has ever made me feel. It's like even before heading into the final stretch it feels like I played 2 full dark souls games content wise. It's been a stellar experience but also somehow I wouldn't say no to a lil bit smaller elden ring 2 and trade of the size difference for less doubling on bosses and whatever else the freed up resources from not having to fill 30% more map allows.

I truly understand this is your personal opinion and it's ok but boy does it suck.

I truly and genuinely believe that the devs did not make this game with the intention for you to finish it in a couple of days

It's meant to be a months long if not years experience.

Like you said. It's like 3 games in.

So just take your time. Enjoy it

There is ZERO absolutely ZERO need for you to rush though it.

We don't need a smaller elden ring

In fact it needs to be bigger.

Maybe next time make the small dungeons much more unique

But damn do I dislike your take for a smaller game

DarthAsthma

@Robby:

EVERY open world game is going to wear you out if you do EVERYTHING. From Okami to Skyrim to Horizon to Ghost of Tsushima to this one. They don't expect you to do ever last thing on the map, and certainly not in 6 weeks. Something like this intends for you to play through a couple different times and do diferent builds and find new stuff every time.

The game probably is just a bit too big, I hear a lot of people burning out on the repeat bosses and dungeons… but the game's only been out for 6 weeks. Pout 150-200 hours into any game in that time and you'll get tired.

Though on second runs just doing what you need to make your build and what you want will be 6-10 hour runs and those should be amazing. I started a second character with a completely different build, mules my weapons over via a friend, got them to level 40 within 2 hours and was off to the races, its great.

I dunno if you played but the scale isn't comparable to any other open world game. Horizon, Botw, AssCreed (pick whichever), etc all of them feel like pretty much like one game. Even the Witcher 3 to me felt like 1 big game. Elden Ring though is like 2+ dark souls games packed into one. It's nothing to do with it being open world and everything to do with fromsoft just being fucking nuts and masters of their craft. The amount of zones/landmass and how densely populated it is, imo is unprecedented. Also disagree with the hour statement it depends very much on the type of game/what the main motivation is for you to play something.

@kevo_koma:

I truly understand this is your personal opinion and it's ok but boy does it suck.

I truly and genuinely believe that the devs did not make this game with the intention for you to finish it in a couple of days

It's meant to be a months long if not years experience.

Like you said. It's like 3 games in.

So just take your time. Enjoy it

There is ZERO absolutely ZERO need for you to rush though it.

We don't need a smaller elden ring

In fact it needs to be bigger.

Maybe next time make the small dungeons much more unique

But damn do I dislike your take for a smaller game

What are you talking about? I've been playing since release that's not a couple of days. Pretty much everyone I know has finished this game like 2-3 weeks ago. Like how am I rushing? Can't say I appreciate the tone of your message nor your weird accusations and assumptions about how I played this game while knowing jackshit about me.
And no Elden Ring does not need to be bigger that is an actually awful take. Like Fromsoft is striking a really razor thin balance on this game for sustaining the open world if they made it even bigger you'd be getting your 4th version of tree sentinel(renamed or repainted), your third reuse of Morgott and Co and hey why don't we duplicate Melania and some of the other fights that only appear once? As it stands the amount of bosses and enemies they have about barely cover it all to not feel awful and even while acceptable it's still noticeable. There is already multiple moments in this game that would have massively benefited from being absolutely unique instead of being refurbished for a round 2.
Size alone does not make a game and there is a point when you're just bloating the shit out of something that could be served as a more compact more varied more focused experience.
Like let's be fucking honest if the next elden ring is smaller by just a tad bit nobody would even notice. How do I know that? Because people whining about souls, sekiro, bloodborne being "too small" are exceedingly rare and pretty much laughed at for that opinion.
Of course if your dream game is x amount % more landmass and have the Melania Day Watch patrol the lands it's fine to each their own. I'm just cognizant of the fact that Fromsoft has made smart concessions about how to fill their world, meaning their solutions work and fill the gaps well enough between the big moments but it's also not like having mohg v2, godrick v2, astel v2, etc vs unique fights is ideal.

Nolus

I have to agree with repeat bossfights getting old and I'll add another layer on top of it: it makes the first time you face those bosses less memorable and "valuable" if that makes sense.
I'm gonna spoiler tag this, but it's nothing overly important to the grand scheme of things:

! The first time I fought Godskin Apostle, it was in the basement of the huge tower in Caelid. I was probably underleveled, didn't have many spells that worked well in this situation, and got basically one-shot by most of his attacks. But I found it a good challenge, and in the end prevailed by the skin of my teeth, no estus, no FP and almost no HP.
! Since then I've fought the same dude 3 more times (the very same, I'm not counting the fat counterpart), one of which was absolutely incomprehensible to me. It was a room that had no business being a boss arena, and the whole fight was akin to a bad Four Kings challenge, where you had to defeat multiples of the same two Godskin dudes until you depleted the big HP bar. And it wasn't even optional as far as I know.

Repeating bosses, either as bossfights or regular enemies is nothing new to Fromsoft, and there's a way to do it neatly and well. Killing a second Twin Sage makes sense, since there's supposed to be two of them anyways, and the second time strikes a good enough balance between being familiar and different. Spamming Capra and Taurus Demons in Izalith, while making sense, very much speaks volumes about the team not having enough time for that general area. Having a half a dozen Pursuers and Dragonslayers scattered throughout Drangleic is ridiculous, but the Ruin Sentinels were fine in the castle in my opinion.

Elden Ring has very cool and awesome bossfights, but it also has so many copy-pasted enemies with a dedicated healthbar on the bottom of the screen that are either complete clones or clones with slight variety (e.g. the dragons). Which is a shame, because it made me not want to explore that much in the late game. Why go through the twentieth identical catacomb dungeon just to kill a dude for the fifth time to get some ash of war?

Oh yeah, not a fan of the catacombs.

The Franky Tank

I'm getting close to the 60 hour mark and pretty sure I'm nearing the end of the game (in the capital at the moment). Going to hold out posting my thoughts for now, but definitely at that point with any open world game where I just want to finish the game and whenever I get to playing the game again I can explore more and find stuff I didn't before. Thankfully after one time looking up what to do I haven't had to again, since I learned that if I was stuck just explore elsewhere and it would all work out eventually.

One thing I can say with confidence no matter how this game ends is that for how much I like it, it doesn't reach the levels of love I had with Sekiro and Bloodborne. Not saying that this game is bad, but mainly due to preferences and other stuff, it just doesn't quite reach the same heights of those games.

Nolus

After 135.8 hours, (half of which was spent battling Godskin Apostle, Gargoyle and the endboss) I've finally beaten the game.

Holy fuck.

I'd better start writing my little review, because I have a lot to say. Mostly praises, but, as mentioned above, some gripes as well.

One thing I'll say

! The endgame cutscene would've been better if my character hadn't looked so awfully stupid with his whole head covered in Ranni's witch cap. Which was doubly awkward, seeing as Ranni had the same hat on. Well, maybe it's cute in way, seeing as they're engaged and all.

Marcotty

To be a little fair, the last major region of the game is basically designed to drain your mood.

! Winter/snowlands just do that to people's brains. The Mountaintops of Giants and the Consecrated Snowfields are almost certainly going to subconsciously bring out the depression and make you want the game to be over already.
! Mohgwyn's palace may have filled me with rage, but it, the Haligtree, and the Crumbling ruins all far improved my mood so long as I wasn't stuck in the snowlands anymore.

Nolus

@Marcotty:

To be a little fair, the last major region of the game is basically designed to drain your mood.

! Winter/snowlands just do that to people's brains. The Mountaintops of Giants and the Consecrated Snowfields are almost certainly going to subconsciously bring out the depression and make you want the game to be over already.
! Mohgwyn's palace may have filled me with rage, but it, the Haligtree, and the Crumbling ruins all far improved my mood so long as I wasn't stuck in the snowlands anymore.

! I spent comparatively little time in the snowlands, and I reached the end of my patience in the Crumbling Ruins to be honest. The fourth Godskin fight was such a bore. Maliketh was cool though, like, actually badass design. And fine bossfight as well, although the glitch where you didn't respawn at full health was kind of annoying.

Marcotty

@Nolus:

! I spent comparatively little time in the snowlands, and I reached the end of my patience in the Crumbling Ruins to be honest. The fourth Godskin fight was such a bore. Maliketh was cool though, like, actually badass design. And fine bossfight as well, although the glitch where you didn't respawn at full health was kind of annoying.

! Mohg (didn't notice the elixer thing for him) and then the final boss (I really can't get his dodge timings down) were the last bosses I got frustrated with and after watching my friend work his way through the Crumbling Ruins first, I may have been overleveled for the area since I did it last. I kinda just forgot about the Godskin duo fight. I guess I was just hyped up after clearing the haligtree so the crumbling ruins weren't too bad and after that there was just the final bosses to do.

Robby

@DarthAsthma:

I dunno if you played but the scale isn't comparable to any other open world game. Horizon, Botw, AssCreed (pick whichever), etc all of them feel like pretty much like one game. Even the Witcher 3 to me felt like 1 big game. Elden Ring though is like 2+ dark souls games packed into one. It's nothing to do with it being open world and everything to do with fromsoft just being fucking nuts and masters of their craft. The amount of zones/landmass and how densely populated it is, imo is unprecedented.

I started a little late because I was waiting for one of my friends spring break to play it with them. I'm 110 hours in and at level 120, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 done, depending on how dense the last chunk is. (I know how big it is on the map but I don't know the density) Assuming the map doesn't do another crazy surprise expansion anyway and reveal another full continent in the sky or something. . I'm taking my time and enjoying myself.

My second file, as I mentioned, I'm doing a totally different build in, is about 7 hours in and has already gone through the first three main bosses and is ready to hit the Atlas Plains. Repeat plays where you're not doing EVERYTHING and know where to go to get stuff for the build you want, and feel more okay checking a guide, and what to not waste your time on, and when you've already hit your head against the wall learning layouts and boss patterns, are much breezier. Like Stormveil Castle and Lucaria Academy took me multiple days the first time because I was exploring every inch, and they took twenty minutes the second when I knew the paths and the drops and ust ran past and around everything.

I'm probably going to be replaying this thing a lot over the next few years. But then I'm one of the weirdos that still loads up original Dark Souls and does a casual one or two sitting run of the game every now and again.

Yeah, the repeat bosses absolutely suck, but at the same time getting to a guy and going "I know how to fight you! Oh but there's two of you now!" adds a new spin to it. Maybe it gets really bad about that in the last chunk, but I've been enjoying it. Especially in the cases where I hit the scarier version first and then find the weak version later. Or, in some cases "I actually kind of one shot you the first time and tanked all the damage… this time I get to actually see what you do!" Or "oh I know what to do here, strike damage!"
On future plays where I'm not trying to explore every inch of the map or not bothering with certain drops and ONLY doing what I want it won't happen much at all.

Also disagree with the hour statement it depends very much on the type of game/what the main motivation is for you to play something.

It doesn't matter how much fun you're having with a game. ANY game you crank 100+ hours into in a month is going to wear you down. Unless you're on vacation or a school student and have loads of free time and no real job or responsibilities and thus have no real problems putting in 8 or 10 hours in one day..

I've done plenty of 100+ hour games in a month before, most recently Persona 5 and Hades. Was having a ton of fun in them, no problem, but was definitely worn down by the end. If I'd taken them just a little slower instead of gunning for that platinum I would have enjoyed the more.

What are you talking about? I've been playing since release that's not a couple of days. Pretty much everyone I know has finished this game like 2-3 weeks ago.

Anyone that finished a game of this size in three weeks either skipped a ton of content or completely no lifed it. Finishing it even in 6 weeks is pretty nuts.

Cyan D. Funk

Elden Ring is the point where it finally hit me that Soulsborne quest design is fucking godawful.

DarthAsthma

@Robby:

I started a little late because I was waiting for one of my friends spring break to play it with them. I'm 110 hours in and at level 120, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 done, depending on how dense the last chunk is. (I know how big it is on the map but I don't know the density) Assuming the map doesn't do another crazy surprise expansion anyway and reveal another full continent in the sky or something. . I'm taking my time and enjoying myself.

My second file, as I mentioned, I'm doing a totally different build in, is about 7 hours in and has already gone through the first three main bosses and is ready to hit the Atlas Plains. Repeat plays where you're not doing EVERYTHING and know where to go to get stuff for the build you want, and feel more okay checking a guide, and what to not waste your time on, and when you've already hit your head against the wall learning layouts and boss patterns, are much breezier. Like Stormveil Castle and Lucaria Academy took me multiple days the first time because I was exploring every inch, and they took twenty minutes the second when I knew the paths and the drops and ust ran past and around everything.

I'm probably going to be replaying this thing a lot over the next few years. But then I'm one of the weirdos that still loads up original Dark Souls and does a casual one or two sitting run of the game every now and again.

Yeah, the repeat bosses absolutely suck, but at the same time getting to a guy and going "I know how to fight you! Oh but there's two of you now!" adds a new spin to it. Maybe it gets really bad about that in the last chunk, but I've been enjoying it. Especially in the cases where I hit the scarier version first and then find the weak version later. Or, in some cases "I actually kind of one shot you the first time and tanked all the damage… this time I get to actually see what you do!" Or "oh I know what to do here, strike damage!"
On future plays where I'm not trying to explore every inch of the map or not bothering with certain drops and ONLY doing what I want it won't happen much at all.

It doesn't matter how much fun you're having with a game. ANY game you crank 100+ hours into in a month is going to wear you down. Unless you're on vacation or a school student and have loads of free time and no real job or responsibilities and thus have no real problems putting in 8 or 10 hours in one day..

I've done plenty of 100+ hour games in a month before, most recently Persona 5 and Hades. Was having a ton of fun in them, no problem, but was definitely worn down by the end. If I'd taken them just a little slower instead of gunning for that platinum I would have enjoyed the more.

Anyone that finished a game of this size in three weeks either skipped a ton of content or completely no lifed it. Finishing it even in 6 weeks is pretty nuts.

I don't really have an issue with the doubling of bosses(well it kinda depends on the boss though but even then it's less about the doubling and more about does it become mechanically more interesting). It's very much mostly reuse of certain setpiece bosses that feels like it cheapens the first time they appeared. It's like did we really need that just to fill the space. Also even regardless of the size of the world, fromsoft should have probably at least taken to heart a bit more that there doesn't always need to be a boss at the end too. It's a concept they almost do not utilize at all despite it working quite well if used smartly. But really all I'm saying is that conceptually for a sequel I'm much more of a fan of fromsoft going deeper rather than going wider design wise.

Again I just don't think this statement of a game wears you out in 200 hours is true and 200 hours over 6 weeks is like 4-5 hours a day not 8-10. But yeah I'm not really talking about how healthy it is to no life a game anyway just that not all game genre are created equal and will wear you out by doing that. Not every game experiences repetition in the way a Souls games does. Multiplayer games in general, MMOs, Mobas, Battle Royal are a lot more resilient by design to be played for many many more hours even over years. So no again I just don't think it's true that 200 hours in a game over like 6 weeks gonna wear everyone down by default. It might be true for you personally but I don't think this generalization works all that well given how extremely popular some of these games are and how much they're played.

I mean characterizing people "skipping" when they're doing a blind playthrough is kinda weird to me, especially for a game as huge and partially obscure about how to reach certain areas. They've all had complete experience when they hit the credits shrug. No one I knew did a parallel file though.

Marcotty

@Cyan:

Elden Ring is the point where it finally hit me that Soulsborne quest design is fucking godawful.

Oh, yeah. Elden Ring is extremely lousy with that. Way worse than I remember from when I played Dark Souls Remastered or watching people play Dark Souls 3. If there's any consolation prize for Elden Ring; it's that a lot of steps in these quest lines are completely skippable and you'll still find them at their next location. Not all though.

Just to get a full vent on that out of the way, I'll keep it in spoilers but just complaining about the stupid steps.

! Boc's not too bad. As long as you remember to go talk to him in the cave again after clearing it, he just moves along whether you find him or not.
! Going back and forth between Irina and Edgar in the castle multiple times was sure annoying and not something I'd ever have done normally.
! Oh, what a completely missable invasion sign. Well, I think it's not mandatory for Yura, but still.
! Why would you ever go back to Sellen after so far into the game to finally learn she actually did have a questline? Some for why you would ever check back in on Nepheli and/or Kenneth so late just to finally see them move to their final location. And why would you ever wander down the road to stumble upon Alexander's 2nd point he gets stuck at after Radahn? Such an afterthought path I never would've gone down again later. It's also easy to just miss jarburg altogether or not bother checking back there later.
! Ranni's is pretty straight forward if you don't forget instructions and read the key items you keep getting. Although there's no reason to find Blaidd locked in one of the first jails you probably ever beat. Skippable part, but absolutely no prompt to lead you there. Not even a voiceline calling you to it. Otherwise it's just really easy to forget or miss a step like not realizing the extra tower's opened up so you can keep following the questlines underground. Also never even met Pidia or started Seluvis's 2nd potion thing before he was already dead.
! Easy to not think to go back into Redmane castle to talk to Jerren.
! Millicent's questline is pretty straightforward…. except for the last step where you have no reason to reload and recheck the area she moves to after you clear out the miniboss there.
! Hyetta's not bad. The Volcano manner isn't bad... except you wouldn't think to find Tanith at Rykard's body when there was nothing left there when you probably left the zone.
! You'll... probably find the Dungeater eventually an advance him....although the sewers of the capital are easy to miss.
! I'm not sure if Goldmask and Corhyn will move from the city unless you do the incredibly unlikely trigger. Using an incantation over a vague message and understanding the statue changing is what he wants.
! D, his brother, and Fia is entirely depending on you to spend the annoying length of time to get hugged by Fia and check in with her. I know it's unnecessary and she'll still move to her last location if you never advance it though.

Robby

@Marcotty:

And why would you ever wander down the road to stumble upon Alexander's 2nd point he gets stuck at after Radahn?

Beats me, but I did, and I wasn't following a guide. I was however lacking the oil pots I needed to free him so I had to look up where to find that.

@DarthAsthma:

I mean characterizing people "skipping" when they're doing a blind playthrough is kinda weird to me, especially for a game as huge and partially obscure about how to reach certain areas. They've all had complete experience when they hit the credits shrug.

I'm not saying anyone is playing wrong if they're not finding stuff, I'm saying it just takes raw time to explore a map this dense if you're really truly exploring it. and three weeks just isn't enough time unless you're putting in crazy hours or using a wiki for everything. I'm 110 hours in and I still have a big fog over what (I hope) is the final piece of map.

So anyone that finished that fast just played what they wanted to play, only explored what seemed what was interesting… and that's almost certainly the better and healthier way to approach it.

Finding new different stuff on a second or third run is what's really intended (there's three different trophies for different endings!), not just trying to consume the entire beast all at once.

Play the game to play it, not to check off a checklist.

t might be true for you personally but I don't think this generalization works all that well given how extremely popular some of these games are and how much they're played.

I've played the three Souls games more times than I can count. Demons not as much because I came to it later and it was just a lot less polished. Bloodborn never really clicked for me, I prefer tanky combat over action heavy. Sekiro I played once and probably never again because it's hyper locked into the one playstyle and there's not much variety. The main Souls games give me more stuff to go back to and try and discover and shortcuts to learn and things I missed the first time. They're designed for you to miss stuff the first time. They're very replayable.

This one is going to be insanely replayable too once the first mega-run is finished. Yeah the map is gargantuan. Until its not.

No one I knew did a parallel file though.

Normally I'd wait till I finished a run, but I'm playing with a friend and started to pull way ahead of them. And there's so, so many different weapons and spells to play with one build just can't contain it. So I started a streamlined run that normally I wouldn't have done for a few weeks or months yet.

Again I just don't think this statement of a game wears you out in 200 hours is true and 200 hours over 6 weeks is like 4-5 hours a day not 8-10.

That's even worse! How does anyone fit in four to five hours of gaming DAILY if they have a job? Or a significant other? I used the 8-10 estimate because I was assuming marathon sessions on the weekend.

Multiplayer games in general, MMOs, Mobas, Battle Royal are a lot more resilient by design to be played for many many more hours even over years.

Sure, I have lots of games I've clunked 100-200 hours into. I've put almost 1800 hours in Warframe. And hundreds of hours in Smite and LoL and HotS. But that IS over the course of years. I didn't do that in six months. And right now I'm not touching Warframe at all, just coming back to it for big updates, playing for a few days, then moving to other stuff. I've done nearly everything the game has to offer, I don't have to grind the extra hours doing stuff I hate just to try and get some extra drops or random extras I don't care about levelled up.

kevo_koma

@DarthAsthma:

What are you talking about? I've been playing since release that's not a couple of days. Pretty much everyone I know has finished this game like 2-3 weeks ago. Like how am I rushing? Can't say I appreciate the tone of your message nor your weird accusations and assumptions about how I played this game while knowing jackshit about me.
And no Elden Ring does not need to be bigger that is an actually awful take. Like Fromsoft is striking a really razor thin balance on this game for sustaining the open world if they made it even bigger you'd be getting your 4th version of tree sentinel(renamed or repainted), your third reuse of Morgott and Co and hey why don't we duplicate Melania and some of the other fights that only appear once? As it stands the amount of bosses and enemies they have about barely cover it all to not feel awful and even while acceptable it's still noticeable. There is already multiple moments in this game that would have massively benefited from being absolutely unique instead of being refurbished for a round 2.
Size alone does not make a game and there is a point when you're just bloating the shit out of something that could be served as a more compact more varied more focused experience.
Like let's be fucking honest if the next elden ring is smaller by just a tad bit nobody would even notice. How do I know that? Because people whining about souls, sekiro, bloodborne being "too small" are exceedingly rare and pretty much laughed at for that opinion.
Of course if your dream game is x amount % more landmass and have the Melania Day Watch patrol the lands it's fine to each their own. I'm just cognizant of the fact that Fromsoft has made smart concessions about how to fill their world, meaning their solutions work and fill the gaps well enough between the big moments but it's also not like having mohg v2, godrick v2, astel v2, etc vs unique fights is ideal.

Apologies if the tone of my post came of as confrontational.

It was never the intent.

Shiebs

Awesome news guys

https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/elden-ring-publisher-interested-to-work-with-author-brandon-sanderson-3196362

The Franky Tank

Once again, I am reminded that the really large boss fights in From Software games are just not fun for me. I am currently fighting the

! Fire Giant

and the boss is just so large that attacking it and trying to figure out what it's about to do is practically impossible. Doesn't help that I had it down to one or two more hits but then combos me where I couldn't get up and recover and die before being able to do those last few hits, so currently extra frustrated at the fight.

Nolus

@The:

Once again, I am reminded that the really large boss fights in From Software games are just not fun for me. I am currently fighting the

! Fire Giant

and the boss is just so large that attacking it and trying to figure out what it's about to do is practically impossible. Doesn't help that I had it down to one or two more hits but then combos me where I couldn't get up and recover and die before being able to do those last few hits, so currently extra frustrated at the fight.

Huge enemies can be a bitch depending on your build. Especially if you're full melee. I still believe Fromsoft managed to succeed with these kinds of fights a couple of times (Midir is hella fun, even up close, and Yhorm balances out the sheer scale with a good visibility).

The Franky Tank

@Nolus:

Huge enemies can be a bitch depending on your build. Especially if you're full melee. I still believe Fromsoft managed to succeed with these kinds of fights a couple of times (Midir is hella fun, even up close, and Yhorm balances out the sheer scale with a good visibility).

Yeah, melee seems especially rough in this game with some fights. After taking a break I was able to take out the boss after a few more attempts, but now I'm at the wall that is the double Apostle battle.

tatermoog

Figuring out your camera strats on various enemies has always been a weird gameplay wrinkle on Souls games, especially on big guys and flying critters. Not saying it's a good thing, but always fun having to map out how not to have the camera screw you on some enemies.

Was usually a big problem for me with the recurring Ulcerated Tree Spirits.

Robby

About 125 hours into my main file, and about 10 into my second file. I think (hope) the main file has unlocked the whole map now. Done multiple secret hide away areas. Still a ways to go before thats done, I'm missing a ton of bosses still going by the achievement list but maybe they dogpile on the end..

Second file hasn't done nearly as many main bosses but has gotten good gear and crazy levelled because I knew what to do this time. Beat both Stormveil Castle bosses first try no problem this time, (and a giant worm I didn't find the first time) being a long distance mage is really really different than a melee tank..

Getting ready to do the academy again. Not looking forward to it. Not because it was hard but because it was just kinda boring. Shame I explored it so thoroughly the first time as its loaded with spells, which my first character didn't need but I really need those my second time around.

If the next Souls game is another giant open world I think I'll do spellcaster on my first run, and then any fun weapons I find along the way I can just pass to my second run since those are transferable but spells aren't. Normally its not an issue because the games are… much shorter.

Nolus

Doing a second run and facing a boss that's given you trouble before only to decimate said boss with an anchor is a very satisfying experience.

I love the anchor.

As for the camera, I found that sometimes it's better to have in unlocked anyways, although that depends on what your build is. For spell or weapons with smaller/narrower hitboxes, it's kinda tricky. Although there are plenty of melee ranged spells this time around, or spells that have such a big aoe, that if you cast it right next to the enemy, most of it will hit to great results.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@tatermoog:

Was usually a big problem for me with the recurring Ulcerated Tree Spirits.

Now that's a boss that's poorly executed yet all over the place. There was one used as a boss inside a catacomb, and the small arena did wonders for having no idea what's going on half the time. I did good damage to it, but the constant wriggling and full body close-ups caught me more than what I felt was fair. Doesn't help that it has such a strange shape, I can hardly distinguish its face from its backside more often than not. Makes reading its moves way harder than it should be.

Robby

They just dropped a new major patch. Buffed all the collosal weapons to swing and recover a bit faster, and a crapload of spells got some kind of buff, generally casting speed or giving soe built in poise. Very very few nerfs (those were mostly in the previous big patch.)

And one thing they changed? You can now change the camera settings so it no longer does the thing you're complaining about. Bout time after all these games.

Ulcerated Tree Spirits.

I haven't had too much trouble with them (I JUST did the one in the catacomb!) but I'm also rocking colossal weapons so I just sort of run up to it, smack it, and tank whatever it dishes out. Casters can just go to town with meteor spells.

I'm 140 hours into my tank melee do everything character, and wrapping up the great city.

About 20 hours into my mage, and they've already got most of the gear I want, level 90, and tearing through things. Have to so soem of Sellen's quest and the Royal academy… then off to Altus plains! They'll probably be roughly where my other character is around hour 30 at the pace things are going.

If I do a NG+ for either of them it'll be a REALLY short run because no grinding or hunting for weapons and spells. Well... some weapons to dual weild with,

Nolus

Sure, I did a lot of damage with meteors (Rock Sling carried me through midgame), but I basically handicapped myself with not levelling Vigor that much and got oneshot in a lot of bossfights. Regardless, Ulcerated Tree Spirit can go to hell, there are better bosses (big and small) that I died more to yet didn't feel like running into a wall and hoping for good rng.

Robby

Ah yeah, not having enough vigor is a problem a lot of folks are runing into. Old Souls gaems expected you to finish the game around level 80 or so, so health was kind of a dump stat, but this one expects you to be around 120-150 and have put in some health and enemies damage is scaled towards that.

I typically build towards tank because being able to take 3 or 4 hits and make a few mistakes is just so, so much better for me than the alternatives.

The Franky Tank

80 hours in at the final fight, and I think this is where I have to drop the game. Those first 50 to 60 hours were an absolute blast with a few frustrating moments here and there, but the ability to go somewhere else then return helped relieve getting to frustrated at any one area/fight. However, once you get to the final area it becomes much more linear and you get to the walls that are the final bunch of fights. Once I got to the God Skin Duo fight, I had to summon help for all the other bosses to be able to move on. I would spend a number of hours on a boss, getting good at the first part and could understand the second phase, but near the end of the fight they were so aggressive and gave no room to breathe that they were just not fun for me. Doesn't help that despite so much health one or two attacks at full health even with the charm that increases defense at full health could down me and have to restart the entire fight.

Overall, an enjoyable game with some great highs, but definitely the weakest of the games for me personally of the From Soft games I have played (Those being Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne, and Sekiro).

Greg

I platinum'd it two or three weeks back and immediately deleted it.

That entire final 'zone' of the map (with its own legacies) was just too much for me. I felt EXHAUSTED.

I feel if everything had wrapped at the capital I would've been entirely satisfied. This didn't feel like Elden Ring 1. It felt like Elden Ring 2. Maybe even 3.

None of that takes away from FROM. They're amazing. But…I think they should've dialed it back a bit. I was just in utter joy and awe for like 120 hours and by around 140 I felt like I should be done. Little did I know I had more than 40 hours left....

What's funny? I can't even argue that it was 'samey' like an Assassin's Creed. Cuz it's not!

Elden Ring is remarkable and a stunning achievement, but the game is the definition of 'too much of a good thing.

Robby

I'm about 150 hours into file 1 (and in the snow area finally) and 25 into file 2 (currently doing volcano and underground stuff). Have to play it a bit less for a while because I have work that needs doing but I've been enjoying it, including the repeat playthrough since doing it as a mage is very very different than doing it as a tank. Also playing with a friend on weekends so that helps.

I want to try other builds but I don't particularly want to respec or start a third character. I'll get the platinum eventually but getting three different endings will be the stopgap probably that keeps me from getting it any time soon. Even though you can just rush through it and do like three bosses to get an ending and thats no problem if you have all the gear… I don't particularly want to just rush through a NG+ file or save scum it.

I know I started this game later than everyone else, but I just can't understand how anyone platted this game in 70 hours unless they were just strictly following a guide, or those like Greg that really explored and managed it in three weeks. I'm more than content throwing 200 hours at this game and will likely replay it many times but in under a month that's just crazy to me.

DarthAsthma

I platted it too two weeks ago. The thing is the elden ring plat is one of the easiest in the series if not the easiest to plat. Doesn't even require the common ng+ cycles(assuming save scumming for different endings which you can fulfill all requirements for in your first playthrough) from other games to get the other boss weapons in need for a duplicate boss soul. If you ignore the size of the game it's by far the least time consuming when it comes to what you actually need to do. You get the plat basically just for getting a specific selection of special spells, weapons, accessories which is different to previous games where you had to get them all other than that it's beat all the bosses which can be tricky if you get bugged out or locked out of a quest line but with some obsessive npc checking it's doable.

My feelings didn't really change love the game a lot(it's probably going to be my goty) but I'd take less size more depth in a sequel cause less size for elden ring would still be bigger than almost all other open world games. Like I'm going through Tsushima right now and that game is maybe the size of liurna/limgrave/caelid combined while also not being even nearly as dense or interestingly designed in regards to the world and how you explore it. It's quite visually beautiful though.

Robby

I dunno. I was bored in Tsushima long long before the end. The shrines and the foxes and the haikus and the enemy hideouts got really really really samey after a while, especailly after unlocking all the combat counter trees. And as gorgeous as the scenery was, it didn't change at all until the final stretch of the game when it got to the snowy area. (What is it with games ending in snowy areas?)

That one I would have been way happier not doing everything.

Of course I'm only now entering the final stretch of ER so maybe the final chunk will burn out and frustrate me like it seems to be doing to everyone else. We'll see!

Nolus

A pretty interesting analysis that goes into some of the less amazing aspects of Elden Ring. It's long, but you can just listen to it while doing something else, watching isn't really required.

!

DoctorPhil

Welp as expected Malenia is kicking my ass. 2 hours and couldn't even get past 1st phase. I think this is gonna take me a few days. I refuse to summon or respec away from unga bunga str build. Send me your energy guys.

Pennywise

@Nolus:

A pretty interesting analysis that goes into some of the less amazing aspects of Elden Ring. It's long, but you can just listen to it while doing something else, watching isn't really required.

!

I haven't even played Elden Ring, but between watching some Let's Plays and reviews I can second a lot of the stuff that is said in this video. Also I shall always respect and support any Joseph Anderson content! ;)