Take a look back, if you care to:
Vol. 1
Vol. 2
Vol. 3
Vol. 4
Vol. 5
Vol. 6
Vol. 7
Vol. 8
Over a year later and there's no denying that Yamato has taken the community by storm. Can anyone overtake him now? Only the end of this arc will tell. Until then, you are free as ever to discuss the future of the crew as you see it.
The rules remain the same: be civil, don't blame, don't flame and don't troll. Ready…
BEH-BEN!
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
I just feel like Yamato staying on the island and not going after his dream of sailing the seas and going on adventures is a huge slap to the face of the very core of what this franchise is about
It would be the equivalent of having the first avengers movie where the characters don’t become a team at the end and save the day
Or having a Star Trek movie that’s about exploring the unknown parts of space but instead they spend every season on an already discovered world and do no adventuring
You know what I mean, it’s spitting in the face of every ideal this series has created in it’s two decades of existence
I am so 100% sure that Yamato will join the Straw Hats 
'been sure since she said she wanted to join Luffy, a few chapters after her debut.
Do people really feel like Vivi was bait? I feel like Oda was very obvious about her. Maybe it's like the bias of knowing but I don't think Oda particularly invested into doing any huge misleads on where Vivi's priorities were. Hence it just made sense that she would choose her country over the pirate life.
Like I think when you look back on the Luffy vs Vivi scene is what hits it home that Vivi would put everything she has herself(her life, wishes, etc) to save her country, it is when she learns to let the crew risk themselves along side her that make their bonds hit home. That was basically the biggie to seal her putting Alabasta's recovery ahead of her own desires imo.
Really the main reason I feel if people were unsure back then there was just A LOT less of one piece to look back on to really form an understanding on Oda's tendencies in regards to his story.
I don't get it either.
Had the argument with someone in here (previous thread) that Vivi was never a candidate to actually join. Not at any point did I think Oda would buck the trend he established in east blue to have Vivi join especially after the way Chopper joined.
Vivi to me was always just the princess in the save the kingdom story.
The most she had going for her was crew interaction. No pirate/seafaring related skills, no particular skills in battle, etc. Its why I found it weird ppl would say she would join in the role of princess as of it were a position. Best I would hear sometimes is it described as her being a diplomat but the need wasn't there like with Robin.
But hey if we learn Alabasta has been buster called out of existence or there's a completely new leader and the Nefertaris are out now we got a tragic past we can work with.
@theackwardstation:
I started reading weekly in Amazon Lily, so after Brook, but I remember my first impressions (and I was spoiler-less):
East Blue SHs – all obvious, of course.
Chopper -- this was the first tricky one, because Kureha got more spotlight at first and I wasn't expecting a mascot to join, but the flashback made it clear.
Robin -- didn't see it coming at all.
Franky -- I don't know when it became obvious to me that Franky would join, but honestly it never crossed my mind that Paulie would join (and I was surprised to find out that the OP community believed he could).
Brook -- I bought his recruitment from the start.
Jimbe -- Believed he would join since before the timeskip.Characters that didn't join:
Vivi -- I thought she would remain with the crew, so I was wrong (yes, I know that she's a SH anyway)
Paulie -- as I said before, no.
Perona, Hancock, Shirahoshi, Monet, Rebecca -- never thought they would join.
Colosseum characters -- it was hard to figure out what Oda intended to do with them, but I didn't believe that Barto or Cavendish would join after spending some time with them.
Pedro - never thought he would join.Current contenders:
Carrot -- if she doesn't join, it's gonna be my first major mistake because there was a point I believed more than 70% that she would join, and the ship is sailing...
Momonosuke -- I can see it happening, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Kinnemon -- I considered it a lot during Punk Hazard, but stopped believing in the possibility in Dressrosa.
Tama -- no.
Yamato -- a lot of spotlight on him right now, so I'm expecting a proportional payoff, but narrative-wise I can see it going in many ways, including joining. I'm 50/50.
Law - no, but he's almost a main character anyway.
Others -- no.
Wow started in Amazon Lily and didn't hop aboard the Marguritte train?
I remember her fans were hoping she'd sneak on the ship to Impel Down and help Luffy until the goodbye. Same with after Marineford and Luffy's two years of training. I think there were holdouts hoping she'd just go to Sabaody with Luffy.
Voted no. Come at me ya'll.
Cool, new thread!
I just feel like Yamato staying on the island and not going after his dream of sailing the seas and going on adventures is a huge slap to the face of the very core of what this franchise is about
It would be the equivalent of having the first avengers movie where the characters don’t become a team at the end and save the day
Or having a Star Trek movie that’s about exploring the unknown parts of space but instead they spend every season on an already discovered world and do no adventuring
You know what I mean, it’s spitting in the face of every ideal this series has created in it’s two decades of existence
I'm not even sure how much of this last year's worth of manga can very much support Yamato doubting to want to go to sea with Luffy, because as far as I'm concerned, any care she has had towards Momo and the rest of Wano has only extended to the point of not wanting them to get destroyed by Kaidou, but not to the point of obligating herself of dismissing all of her desires outright just for them and only being with them. She has already gone through a lot in dedicating herself in living up to Oden, so I'm not sure if dedicating the rest of her life to saving them, also in light of her counting on Momo enough to lead Wano and other citizens supporting him back going forward.
No "hindsight" needed. Go back and plenty of us were there week 1 with Brook. (well, week 2 technically I guess is when we got the yohoho and musician part.) Oda put a neon flashing sign.
Maybe we didn'tlike him because he made a horrible first impression, but lots of us never had any doubt in the matter.
I do not understand how people did. I see reasons put out there and none of them felt very strong, even at the time. The narrative was just… super obvious about the fact he was the next character.
Robin aside, queen of exceptions that she is, Oda generally doesn't play sneaky when it comes to making the next crewmember.
Hindsight is needed to confirm who was right. Plenty of people were with Paulie in the first weeks. That's also where Oda did play sneaky when it comes to the next crewmate, at least for a while. This is just outcome bias.
It does feel like Oda is giving us reasons for and against Yamato joining the crew every chapter (currently Chapter 1028, Yamato the Makami is heading in to the Skull Dome to destroy explosives). One thing I feel is totally unambiguous, though, is Jinbe's toast being delayed until the feast a page before Yamato's first mention in the manga, with Kaido saying his son needs to appear at the feast. This connection was further reinforced by the anime with Yamato being directly tied into the delay of the toast.
Since then, we've had reasons for him to leave (a repeatedly reinforced dream of leaving Wano to go on adventure since childhood, physical and metaphorical chains binding him to Wano, etc.) and reasons for him to stay in Wano (devil fruit is a guardian deity of Wano, the possibility of Wano needing protection, Yamato acting as a guide for Momonosuke, the possibility of Yamato symbolically healing wounds through acceptance, etc.). For many, one side or the other of this makes it seem obvious what the outcome will be. It's also possible to satisfy setup on both sides without Yamato joining the crew (form a new pirate crew and go on his own adventure, or delay going on an adventure until Wano is safe, etc.) For me, though, I have trouble seeing how Jinbe's delayed toast, followed by Yamato focused chapters "The Sake I Brewed to Drink With You" "Straw Hat Luffy", could mean anything other than Yamato joining the crew.
The biggest thing I feel is missing in regards to Yamato joining is clarification is what and how she would contribute in forwarding towards Luffy's story and the story overall. She hasn't really demonstrated any skills or abilities beyond fighting, and this combined with the idea of soldiers tending to defend something like their country or something they care about in general may fall into that, in addition to her guardian theme.
Would guardian of the Sunny, not be enough? We already had Kuma take that role once. The Sunny almost got destroyed by some fodder with bombs. It could even be a conflict of interest, with wanting to explore the world and staying on duty.
The exchanging of sake cups and becoming siblings usually comes after close deep bonds. Ace, Sabo, and Luffy spent a great deal pf their childhood together and ended up saving each other.
I agree.
As of right now, Yamato and Luffy would have to spend a lot more time together. A character put in the position to possibly be Luffy's sibling when he's already grown up would've at least would've had to be side by side with him like from Saboady to Amazon Lily to Impel Down to Marineford back to Amazon Lily and then back to Saboady after two years.
I think that this type of bond can be formed in more than one way, time surely helps, but is not the only factor. You can develop that sort of relationship overtime like Ace, Sabo and Luffy did, or by overcoming a big event/trauma together. Which they are doing right now. If the stakes continue to elevate, with Big Mom, CP0, maybe even Blackbeard right around the corner. There are still chances for Yamato to save Luffy’s life with a similar weight to Luffy removing the cuffs.
The role Yamato is in right now really only fits next crewmate, long term ally, or reoccurring ally that shows up later. Becoming a sibling is a bigger deal than crewmate. Luffy doesn't just offer that up.
I agree with any of those fits. I just think it would be exciting to meet a character Luffy would offer that up to.
I will say I too considered something around that area when I saw Yamato opposite Ace on the vol. 100 cover thinking of what it could mean or where that placement might point too but as of now it doesn't make sense given what Oda has done with the character so far to reach that conclusion. Oda's done a lot more early with Yamato that he didn't do with Ace. Technically Ace still didn't really get a deep focus and focused flashback. The Rogue story he was an infant, the Sabo flashback is shared with Luffy, and a lot simply wasn't fleshed out with his issues with Roger nor was there much bonding with his adoptive grandfather. Yamato is being handled differently.
I would say there is very little too. The idea sprung from a user asking: if Yamato is not the next crew member, then what is their role in the story? I do not believe they will stay in Wano as their guardian. From my perspective, Yamato will at the very least receive Luffy’s vivre card. Hell, Yamato gave Ace theirs.
Before the raid started Luffy said they'd do the sake thing and officially welcome Jimbe in a big party celebrating the alliance and raid being successful. Chapters 999 to 1000 laid out that Yamato was waiting for him in the title. Its Yamato talking directly to Luffy. Points to more admiration that's currently one sided that doesn't lean to a potential familial bond forming.
Yes, right now Yamato is indebted to Luffy, the latter gave them their freedom and a chance to fight. However, Wano has not ended, there are still chances for their bond to deepen and it will. For now we know Yamato will handle the explosives. It would be cool to see them ward off the explosions in their wolf form with ice powers.
Even as the next crew member, Jimbe helped Luffy overcome his trauma and had a very emotional request to join with the blood transfusion to save Luffy’s life. To clarify, more than saying that this will happen. The question is: how could it happen? What could Yamato do now, in this short period of time, that could make Luffy ask them. Kaido has been telling Yamato that they are superior to humans and that they will be hated. Becoming a sibling with a human spits right on those notions that Kaido has.
@Rean
Guardian deity stuff: I do not think it has to be that overcomplicated. Wano has many guardian deities, so any of them would have an easy time governing the citizens of Wano that mostly revere them. Like, how for ancient Greeks it may be easier to follow a ruler with the blessings of Zeus, etc.
Hidden:
Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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@Zik:
Wow started in Amazon Lily and didn't hop aboard the Marguritte train?
I remember her fans were hoping she'd sneak on the ship to Impel Down and help Luffy until the goodbye. Same with after Marineford and Luffy's two years of training. I think there were holdouts hoping she'd just go to Sabaody with Luffy.
I have to admit that I completely forgot about her when I was writing that list, lol.
To be honest, I was considering she could join in the two weeks after I started reading weekly (chapter 519), but those were not strong convinctions or anything. Amazon Lily was a weird time because the crew had just separated and nobody knew exactly where the story was heading next. I thought Marguerite would help Luffy to leave the island somehow, so why not join the crew at the end of this hypothetical adventure? But soon everything took a turn when Luffy found out about Ace and Hancock fell in love with him, so I quickly dismissed Marguerite even before leaving the island.
I'll just repost my initial impressions on Yamato from July 2020. Seems to mostly still be the case.
TWO dramatic introductions, an actual backstory that will be relevant to the rest of the arc and create conflict and story points with the arc we're in, a connection to Ace, a unique weapon and fighting style, a quirk of a woman claiming to be a man? These are all actually unique things to the character. Child of an Emporer is unique to Kaidou, but BM has a million kids including Pudding, so its not that big a deal.
All still true, and then some. He's been one of THE focus characters of the arc.
But the Oden worship is kind of like fifty other characters like all the scabbards. Dream seems very tied to the current location, and like they're just sort of here to help conveniently tie up some plot threads by coincidentally owning Oden's journal… and who knows what quick fix plot wraps ups that could provide later.
In the year since we've gotten way more clarity on that. Definitely has a dream of wanting to sail, not just "protect Wano". The Oden thing is still a little iffy but he's mostly passed it on to Momo it seems.
Ace connection was already a thing with Jinbe, and Tama within the same arc also has it, so that's not much. "I knew Ace" is maybe becoming too much of a convenient shorthand for instant connection.
Oda's double, tripled, and quadrupled down on the Ace connection. It's not just a "I met him once" thing, but significantly more than that. Yamato made Ace's vivre card!
It was pointed out that he was in fact in Oden's flashback (or at least the pants were) so Oda conceivably had the character in mind a few months earlier than first mentioned, but that's hardly a "third sake cup shadow indicating Sabo" level of "Oda definitely was being sneaky here" situation. I'd feel more strongly if they were alluded to much earlier, similar to how Pudding was shown off years in advance.
Still a late add in the arc, but given how much he's dominated SINCE that appearance, how long the entire arc is running, and how lcrucial Oden was to understanding the character… more understandable than it was. If we take Oda's Rose of Versailles comment to be a origin of the character as we currently know them, that puts a least a year in advance.
Oda displayed the "original crew he conceived" when the whole group got to the island in that big battle pose, so anyone he adds last will be a late addition. One year later or 22 years later, we'll never know unless told specifically.
Design wise, it seems like the horns are real (they were underneath the mask and multicolored) , he's very tall, she's got a little hair twirl at the top, and I think the hair fading from one color to the next is neat and fairly unique. Not unprecedented, Jinbe had the same thing going on when he was younger, and I feel like Ulti's hair stripes are a bit more unique I think. Oda put some thought into this design, but not a crazy ammount.
If his main hair color ends up being white, purple, or red, that'll add some points though.
Ended up being white hair with purple tints, and red horns. Hit all three! Plus a completely unique triple tint which no other character in the series has.
But oh man the Nami face is strong on this one. The eyes are different but… its very Nami. A stronger jawline or some cheekbones or something would make a difference, its definitely no Robin level of decisive facial distinctness.
This has been subtly tweaked since. At a very specific angle of closeup they overlap, but Oda realized that and took steps to tweak the designs. Accentuating the eyebrows, pulling up the black mark, making sure the horns are in camera, etc. It's fine now.
So between the strong Nami face and the heavy Wano ties, I'm not riding this particular hype train, but its the most potential we've had in a character in a while. Devil fruit could obviously make a big difference. Strong secondary character to be sure, convenient to speed up the arc, not screaming nakama to me just yet.
Well, he's screaming nakama now! Chapter 1016 completely clinched it for me. "I am going to sail with Luffy" leaves no doubts for me.
I just hope we get proper resolution on the "I am Oden" thing in how it related to him wanting to be called a man soon. Just, a definitive one way or another, I don't know that I can deal with the flamewars and transphobes for years to come. If Yamato decides to embrace being a woman, great, I'll switch over to "she" immediately. But for now, he wants to be a man, so he it is.
People mistaking Yamato for Nami reminds me of this:
@K.:
Even as the next crew member, Jimbe helped Luffy overcome his trauma and had a very emotional request to join with the blood transfusion to save Luffy’s life. To clarify, more than saying that this will happen. The question is: how could it happen? What could Yamato do now, in this short period of time, that could make Luffy ask them. Kaido has been telling Yamato that they are superior to humans and that they will be hated. Becoming a sibling with a human spits right on those notions that Kaido has.
As far as siblings go, there's nothing saying Yamato didn't form that bond with a human when he was young and traded sake cups to become siblings. Still a bit more to be revealed about his past. Could still work in to everything Kaido has said and Yamato's protests. The death of a sibling being a part of his tragic past would only closer parallel his story with Luffy's.
@K.:
@electricmastro
Would guardian of the Sunny, not be enough? We already had Kuma take that role once. The Sunny almost got destroyed by some fodder with bombs. It could even be a conflict of interest, with wanting to explore the world and staying on duty.
Maybe, but I'm sure it could go a little further. Maybe there could even be symbolism of Yamato being guardian of the sun. lol
This is my Yamato nakama theory I started last year that consolidates the varying Yamato theories I've made since his appearance/introduction in chapter 983/984.
Yamato: The Bonds Of Sea And Adventure (Nakama Theory)
At the moment, no other character has been as closely linked to the Straw Hat Pirates and their end goal within the story as Yamato. When you couple Yamato’s curiosity for the “Will of D” and Luffy with Yamato’s desire to sail the seas, their love for adventure and their awareness of Joy Boy and the “Dawn”, it seems apt to have such a character more closely tied to the Straw Hat Pirates than not. Yamato’s interest go well beyond those limited to just the Wano Kuni Arc.
There are elements to Yamato’s character and story that give you pause and makes you think about the potential Yamato has and how important they could be going forward. Narratively, Oda has written so much momentum behind Yamato that it becomes hard not to take notice.
Hindsight is needed to confirm who was right.
Hindsight is for if you missed the solution the first time, then later went back and saw the clues before you came to the right result. Be it in a story or a romance or a military blunder.
But if you saw the right answer the first time, and for the right reasons (not just wild random guessing), and you weren't shaken from your belief once you had it, then no hindsight was needed, your present sight at the time was sufficient.
Plenty of people were with Paulie in the first weeks.
Sure, before Franky actually appeared on camera. But you had to jump onto the hype train in the first place. Same as all the folks that jumped onto Caimie or Hancock or Rebecca or Pedro or whatever.
I can't really weigh in fairly on Paulie/Franky, the story was at Enies Lobby when I caught up back in the day and after bonding with Usopp and post-Flashback it was clearly Franky by that point, I'd never really had time to stop and speculate and think about it and I wasn't reading week to week… though I personally liked Paulie more, Franky was TOO crazy, but I didn't get into those discussions till they were basically over. So I was never in on arguing for him one way or another or develping a strong opinion on the matter, there was too much momentum going through the crazy that is Water 7.
But I was around for Brook, and Jinbe.
And a decade of next crewmate candidates and I've never felt any of them were sending the right signals. Most were just flashes in the pan easy to dismiss, Carrot's been the only one with any real steam, largely because she had no opposition for 4 years and a lot of folks truly believe she's next. And maybe she will be and they'll all be able to say they told me so when this done, and they'll have completely earned that by seeing something I just don't. But I've never been convinced of it with a good argument. And I'm easy to convince when an argument is actually good.
And then Yamato went them all out hard and heavy week 1.
I wasn't fully convinced until a little later, mostly because of the early Namiface, but he was the first character I saw signs in for over a decade and didn't just dismiss basically immediately, regardless of the design.
This is my Yamato nakama theory I started last year that consolidates the varying Yamato theories I've made since his appearance/introduction in chapter 983/984.
"Yamato also has an obvious reason to fight the Blackbeard Pirates – Ace. Another reason to stand against the Blackbeard Pirates could be developed when further information surrounding the Kaido and Rocks relationship is revealed. Rocks may have betrayed Kaido and if Blackbeard has inherited Rocks will, there is reason for Yamato to stop Blackbeard."
Ah, didn't even think of that. I suppose that could also lend way to Yamato developing some relationship with Marco since Ace was fellow commanders with him and also desires to see Blackbeard taken down for all his malice.
One of anti-Yamato arguments is about the goroawase, especially that the next DF should be Nikyu Nikyu (29). That question was pre-timeskip question, but what do you guys think about the goroawase theory? Should it be realized, or Oda just simply ignores it because it’s post-timeskip now?
P.S. I want to vote Yamato for joining but I can’t lmao
Hindsight is for if you missed the solution the first time, then later went back and saw the clues before you came to the right result. Be it in a story or a romance or a military blunder.
But if you saw the right answer the first time, and for the right reasons (not just wild random guessing), and you weren't shaken from your belief once you had it, then no hindsight was needed, your present sight at the time was sufficient.
Sure, before Franky actually appeared on camera. But you had to jump onto the hype train in the first place. Same as all the folks that jumped onto Caimie or Hancock or Rebecca or Pedro or whatever.
I can't really weigh in fairly on Paulie/Franky, the story was at Enies Lobby when I caught up back in the day and after bonding with Usopp and post-Flashback it was clearly Franky by that point, I'd never really had time to stop and speculate and think about it and I wasn't reading week to week… though I personally liked Paulie more, Franky was TOO crazy, but I didn't get into those discussions till they were basically over. So I was never in on arguing for him one way or another or develping a strong opinion on the matter, there was too much momentum going through the crazy that is Water 7.
But I was around for Brook, and Jinbe.
And a decade of next crewmate candidates and I've never felt any of them were sending the right signals. Most were just flashes in the pan easy to dismiss, Carrot's been the only one with any real steam, largely because she had no opposition for 4 years and a lot of folks truly believe she's next. And maybe she will be and they'll all be able to say they told me so when this done, and they'll have completely earned that by seeing something I just don't. But I've never been convinced of it with a good argument. And I'm easy to convince when an argument is actually good.
And then Yamato went them all out hard and heavy week 1.
I wasn't fully convinced until a little later, mostly because of the early Namiface, but he was the first character I saw signs in for over a decade and didn't just dismiss basically immediately, regardless of the design.
But you don't know what the solution or the right answer in a story is until after it's confirmed. There can be hints and solutions that follow whatever the author has set up and foreshadowed but since storytelling doesn't follow a given set of inviolable laws the seemingly right answer might not turn out to be that in the end.
People were still in favor of Paulie joining even after Franky appeared, even after a good batch of Enies Lobby. And even if I hate the "anything can happen as long as the author wills it" justification that's just how it is, Oda could've just as easily thrown us a double curveball and make Paulie join after all.
It's the same way for Carrot and Yamato nowadays. There are two sides and people in between or on a different side altogether, each with their own arguments and in parts not understanding how people can see it differently, coming to different conclusions. If the imo unlikely scenario happens and Carrot joins, her advocates will claim that the signs were there all along just like you are now claiming that Franky joining was just a matter of "seeing the clues and coming to the right result". But we don't know that until it actually happens. Knowing the conclusion puts evaluating the decision process that led to said conclusion into a completely different light which is exactly what outcome bias is.
@Devil:
One of anti-Yamato arguments is about the goroawase, especially that the next DF should be Nikyu Nikyu (29)/
I believed in it, but in the face of Yamato… it seems that maybe if Oda well and truly intended to have that be the payoff, he wouldn't have revealed it in SBS a decade in advance, and then teased out other characters with it. Or that was his intent once upon a tiem and it was just noticed so early it stopped being fun.
But at the end of the day, whoever joins, somemone will probably make a crack theory for why it works and he'll just go with it.
He notably also stopped doing "the X person" chapter titles because he felt they got too predictable.
P.S. I want to vote Yamato for joining but I can’t lmao
We used to have competitions on this board and some folks would make new accounts to fake votes. So there's a few secret minimum thresholds for voting in polls based largely on time and post count.
Just keep making posts and stick around as an active member of the community and you'll be able to vote eventually.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Knowing the conclusion puts evaluating the decision process that led to said conclusion into a completely different light which is exactly what outcome bias is.
"Hindsight-understanding of a situation or event only after it has happened or developed."
It's only hindsight if you waited until the end to make your guess and give your reasons for it.
When you make a theory, you present your reasoning and expected results BEFORE you get the answer, otherwise you're biasing your theory around the result, which is what you're talking about.
If you saw it just fine along the way, and gave a proper reason for it, it's by definition not hindsight. You arrived at the proper answer, with proper reasoning, before being told the end result.
There's a difference between
"I think that marine in the dog mask will be Luffy's grandfather" which is crazy nonsense
and
"I was looking at Romance Dawn and I noticed that Luffy's grandpa has the same body type and mustache as that one marine. What if he's Luffy's grandpa?"
and
"Oh well after Enies Lobby, it's obvious he was always Luffy's grandpa, that's why Oda put him in the mask so we wouldn't recognize him!"
One is a crazy guess that would only be right by accident, right but for the wrong reasons. One is looking at evidence and putting together a theory and making a case. And one is actual hindsight where yes, its easy to now see what the pieces were because you have the whole puzzle..
They are different things.
(Of course Oda did completely cover Garp's face so that one was probably impossible to get fairly.)
Here are the listed anti-Yamato arguments I can collect so far. Most of them sound ridiculous, but some are pretty good arguments. Let me summarize again:
1. Goroawase DF pattern
2. She doesn’t have specific role
3. She is introduced too late
4. Luffy calls her “Yamao” instead of “Yamato”. She is on the same level as Law & Kid
5. Her DF is Wano’s guardian deity
6. She read Oden’s journal. She knows too much especially about One Piece
7. She is too strong. She will break monster trio dynamic
8. She doesn’t interact with any other Straw Hats, only Luffy and briefly Franky
I’ve posted the counter-arguments for about 5 of them. But I really want to know what pro-Yamato’s counter arguments regarding the arguments above.
@Devil:
Here are the listed anti-Yamato arguments I can collect so far. Most of them sound ridiculous, but some are pretty good arguments. Let me summarize again:
1. Goroawase DF pattern
2. She doesn’t have specific role
3. She is introduced too late
4. Luffy calls her “Yamao” instead of “Yamato”. She is on the same level as Law & Kid
5. Her DF is Wano’s guardian deity
6. She read Oden’s journal. She knows too much especially about One Piece
7. She is too strong. She will break monster trio dynamic
8. She doesn’t interact with any other Straw Hats, only Luffy and briefly FrankyI’ve posted the counter-arguments for about 5 of them. But I really want to know what pro-Yamato’s counter arguments regarding the arguments above.
1. Doesn't matter
2. Wait
3. Doesn't matter
4. Doesn't matter and wait
5. Doesn't matter
6. Wrong and that's why it doesn't matter
7. Wrong
8. Wait
Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
@Zik:
1. Doesn't matter
2. Wait
3. Doesn't matter
4. Doesn't matter and wait
5. Doesn't matter
6. Wrong and that's why it doesn't matter
7. Wrong
8. Wait
As I said most arguments are ridiculous especially the name-calling. My most logical reason is that Luffy knew about Yamato & her name amidst the raid. We all should know that once Luffy is focused on dealing with the threat (in this case, to beat Kaido), anything else is secondary to him. Calling Yamato’s name correctly, and using it as an argument against the favor of Yamato joining instead of focusing on dealing the threat, it sounds ridiculous. I’m 100% sure once the raid is done, Kaido is being dealt with, Luffy will start calling her by her name correctly.
I'm still not sold on Yamato one way or the other, unlike other candidates we've had over the years it just doesn't seem as obvious which way things will go (to me at least).
For every "pro join" reason:- It's nice having a feminine top-tier fighter in the crew, they want to leave with Luffy and see the world etc. There seems to be an "anti join" counter:- Yamato might be too strong and would upset the dynamics of the crew, they may want to leave but they've been specifically called out as Wano's Guardian Deity etc.
But on the other hand, I was hugely pro Perona back in the day (When it turned out she and Zoro wound up on the same island and spent the time skip together, it seemed so obvious she'd join up when the crew got back together), so what do I know?
There seems to be an "anti join" counter:- Yamato might be too strong and would upset the dynamics of the crew
Jinbe is one of the strongest and most famous pirates in the world and he's just the helmsman, not disturbing anything.
And both Zoro and Sanji are in the middle of getting power ups right now against higher rank officers.
they may want to leave but they've been specifically called out as Wano's Guardian Deity etc.
By the VILLAIN. No one with Yamato's actual interests in mind has brought it up.
@Devil:
Here are the listed anti-Yamato arguments I can collect so far. Most of them sound ridiculous, but some are pretty good arguments. Let me summarize again:
1. Goroawase DF pattern
2. She doesn’t have specific role
3. She is introduced too late
4. Luffy calls her “Yamao” instead of “Yamato”. She is on the same level as Law & Kid
5. Her DF is Wano’s guardian deity
6. She read Oden’s journal. She knows too much especially about One Piece
7. She is too strong. She will break monster trio dynamic
8. She doesn’t interact with any other Straw Hats, only Luffy and briefly FrankyI’ve posted the counter-arguments for about 5 of them. But I really want to know what pro-Yamato’s counter arguments regarding the arguments above.
1. May or may not be relevant. Oda revealing the existence of the idea in an SBS may be an expression of his intent to not follow it but merely plant the seed in the readers mind so that it makes it harder for readers to predict what he is going to do going forward. Following such an idea limits how Oda can craft his story.
2. Yes, no expressed ship role yet. But neither did Jinbe until WCI (helmsman was only a possibility until it was confirmed). At present, Yamato's ship role could be many things, including a role that seemingly appears inconsequential at this point to the journey of the Straw Hat Pirates. Until we get further focus on what exactly Yamato can do beyond fighting (and making Vivre Cards), certainty remains lacking:
Yamato does have a potential story role going forward.
3. Why is this a problem? And late in regards to what? The story? The saga? The arc?
4. Why is this a problem? Luffy calls his crew members by their name when they become members. Set-up has been laid by Oda where Yamato will become part of the conflict between Kaido and Luffy. Kaido knows that if he wishes to break Yamato's spirit, he first needs to break Luffy. And Luffy is aware what Kaido represents to Yamato's freedom. When the emotional stakes are at their peak, that may be when the pay off happens e.g. climatic moment in the Kaido battle or at the end of the arc.
5. The Wano Arc has been building up toward Momonosuke severing Wano from its history and directing it toward a path leading to the future. Wano's borders will be opened and with such an act, it will become part of the world once again. Wano will become a country that will be significant in the arrival of the "Dawn".
The development of Yamato having a Devil Fruit representing a Guardian Deity of Wano as per Kaido, could exist because it has been set-up for Momonosuke to eventually sever such a shackle for Yamato (and help Wano move on from the past). Just as Ace helped sever Yamato's shackles toward accepting their desires, just as Luffy severed Yamato's shackles by removing the explosive bindings and defeating Kaido (will happen), just as the Samurai (Daimyo) severed Yamato's shackles by cutting the chains in the Sacred Cave and believing in Yamato, Momonosuke will sever Yamato's shackles by removing the notion of duty. At such a point, Yamato will have freedom to choose what to do. Yamato's Devil Fruit could be argued to have more to do with Momonosuke's story than keeping Yamato in Wano.
6. Oden's journal is not a spoiler. Oden understood the importance of what was at stake and would not have included too much information in the journal.
@Syphin:
Considering Oden discovered the secrets of the world along with Roger, he would be aware of why the information the ancient civilisation knew wasn't openly shared and instead kept behind the text of the Poneglyphs that not anyone could read.
Just as Roger didn't reveal the secrets of world during his execution. Just as the rest of the Roger Pirates didn't reveal the secrets of the world. I don't believe Oden would have revealed the secrets of the world either verbally or through his journal.
Roger and Rayleigh knew the secrets of the world needed to be uncovered naturally through the journey. Oden would have felt the same which would have extended to what he wrote in his journal. Oden would have omitted the complete story of the Ancient Civilisation and only covered the brief details of his adventure and their discovery. The fact that Oden was resolved to opening the borders of Wano once he returned, he knew just like Roger what was at stake. I genuinely don't see Oden risking the Roger Pirates efforts by revealing all the secrets of the world in the journal.
Oden included just enough information in his journal to help guide the next generation (such as Momonosuke and Hiyori and those who would inherit Joy Boy/Roger's will) to completing what "Joy Boy" started.
!
7. How is Yamato's strength being measured? Because it is obviously not directly against Luffy, Zoro and Sanji. To compare the efforts of someone who fought Kaido for 20 years against someone who faced Kaido for the first (Zoro) or second (Luffy) time requires more reflection than a direct one in regards to the events taking place. Yamato learned Kaido's attacks and his body became familiar with his attacks beating after beating. Of course Yamato would have faired better against an opponent he fought for twenty plus years when compared with someone who only faced Kaido for one or two times. Lets also not forget that in contrast to what Kaido said, when he was fighting Yamato, Kaido didn't intend to kill him, Kaido was only attempting to physically, mentally and spiritually break Yamato until Yamato was submissive to his commands.
Zoro is offensively stronger than Yamato based on the damage done to Kaido. And with Sanji's body undergoing a metamorphisis, his abilities and capabilities have increased.
Rather than renounce a character of Yamato's strength joining the Straw Hat Pirates, readers should rejoice, as it would mean Zoro and Sanji get be highlighted more in battle.
When you think about who the Straw Hat Pirates are going to face when the Elbaf, Vegapunk, Laugh Tale, and World Government stories come into focus, it appears obvious why adding a strong character to the Straw Hat Pirates seems justified, appropriate and necessary.
Yamato's addition in this very arc does not throw off the balance of the Straw Hat Pirates military might. It does not make them overpowered or the arc less exciting, rather it allows for tougher opponents to come to the forefront and enhance the thrill of the events. Proceeding arcs will function the same even if someone with Yamato's strength joins the Straw Hat Pirates.
As for the general crew dynamics, Yamato joining may give more focus on Robin who has been criminally kept in the background for far too long. Yamato joining could also help add relevance to Jinbe presence’s in the crew. Yamato has been “imprisoned” for twenty years and there is no way that such a reality and past would not create emotional and mental scars within them. Jinbe has experience with being among former prisoners (Tiger, Koala and other Sun Pirates) so if Oda wanted it explored, he could have Jinbe help Yamato with any trauma and mental anguish they may have – Jinbe has helped Luffy through his mental trauma in the past. Robin after having met Koala (and being enslaved herself) may also have some insight in Yamato’s situation and be able to assist.
8. If there ever was a character who could join the Straw Hat Pirates with limited interactions with any of the Straw Hat Pirates outside of Luffy, it would be a character themed around Kozuki Oden, a character who joined the Roger Pirates with only interacting with Roger.
With that said, Yamato may yet get further interactions with the Straw Hat Pirates based on where he is currently heading - toward the Onigashima Skull dome.
The strength argument is just god awful against Yams and Carrot both.
TLDR Oda doesn't give a fuck you have 1000+ chapters to look back on and compare with the dumbass views of powerscalers and you'll notice people thinking they know anything about that and conduct their assessments as faux science are always wrong.
The leeway for characters to be as strong or weak as they need to be is massive. Luffy got knocked out by goddamn Apoo this arc alone before he went toe to toe against Kaido. So I don't see how people still earnestly believe in power scaling garbage. It's absolute nonsense.
Lastly fucking Jinbe. Learn from the past folks. Power as in X is too weak or strong to join because it will upset the previous power dynamic will never be a good argument.
@Zik:
1. Doesn't matter
2. Wait
3. Doesn't matter
4. Doesn't matter and wait
5. Doesn't matter
6. Wrong and that's why it doesn't matter
7. Wrong
8. Wait
Brevity is key hehe
Agree with Zik.
Too late to the story doesn't matter. He is but it's a non-issue. Yamato is joining.
Role/occupation in the ship doesn't matter. Never explicitly stated that they needed a helmsman yet they have Jinbe fill that role. Characterization comes first. The role is secondary and something we'll accept whatever Oda will have Yamato do.
Well, I was just collecting the most occurring arguments against the favor of Yamato joining. And like I said, most of them are ridiculous.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
1. May or may not be relevant. Oda revealing the existence of the idea in an SBS may be an expression of his intent to not follow it but merely plant the seed in the readers mind so that it makes it harder for readers to predict what he is going to do going forward. Following such an idea limits how Oda can craft his story.
2. Yes, no expressed ship role yet. But neither did Jinbe until WCI (helmsman was only a possibility until it was confirmed). At present, Yamato's ship role could be many things, including a role that seemingly appears inconsequential at this point to the journey of the Straw Hat Pirates. Until we get further focus on what exactly Yamato can do beyond fighting (and making Vivre Cards), certainty remains lacking:
- Fighter/Defender/Samurai
- Stonemason
- Den den Mushi-tuber/Marys-tuber - taking Oden's journal idea further by using state-of-the-art technology to create a visual recording of the journey to share with the world (the
cakeOne Piece is no lie)- Vivre Card craftsman - why does such an item exist? Does the history of Vivre Cards relate back to the Ancient Civilisation? Can the application of Vivre Cards be expanded on like how science expands on the use of Devil Fruits (Chopper, Caesar, Queen, Vegapunk)? In the absence of a Log Pose route, would the presence of a Vivre Card craftsman be helpful?
Yamato does have a potential story role going forward.
3. Why is this a problem? And late in regards to what? The story? The saga? The arc?
4. Why is this a problem? Luffy calls his crew members by their name when they become members. Set-up has been laid by Oda where Yamato will become part of the conflict between Kaido and Luffy. Kaido knows that if he wishes to break Yamato's spirit, he first needs to break Luffy. And Luffy is aware what Kaido represents to Yamato's freedom. When the emotional stakes are at their peak, that may be when the pay off happens e.g. climatic moment in the Kaido battle or at the end of the arc.
5. The Wano Arc has been building up toward Momonosuke severing Wano from its history and directing it toward a path leading to the future. Wano's borders will be opened and with such an act, it will become part of the world once again. Wano will become a country that will be significant in the arrival of the "Dawn".
The development of Yamato having a Devil Fruit representing a Guardian Deity of Wano as per Kaido, could exist because it has been set-up for Momonosuke to eventually sever such a shackle for Yamato (and help Wano move on from the past). Just as Ace helped sever Yamato's shackles toward accepting their desires, just as Luffy severed Yamato's shackles by removing the explosive bindings and defeating Kaido (will happen), just as the Samurai (Daimyo) severed Yamato's shackles by cutting the chains in the Sacred Cave and believing in Yamato, Momonosuke will sever Yamato's shackles by removing the notion of duty. At such a point, Yamato will have freedom to choose what to do. Yamato's Devil Fruit could be argued to have more to do with Momonosuke's story than keeping Yamato in Wano.
6. Oden's journal is not a spoiler. Oden understood the importance of what was at stake and would not have included too much information in the journal.
! [qimg]https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2021/09/one_piece_v82_ch819_p003-edit.jpg[/qimg]
7. How is Yamato's strength being measured? Because it is obviously not directly against Luffy, Zoro and Sanji. To compare the efforts of someone who fought Kaido for 20 years against someone who faced Kaido for the first (Zoro) or second (Luffy) time requires more reflection than a direct one in regards to the events taking place. Yamato learned Kaido's attacks and his body became familiar with his attacks beating after beating. Of course Yamato would have faired better against an opponent he fought for twenty plus years when compared with someone who only faced Kaido for one or two times. Lets also not forget that in contrast to what Kaido said, when he was fighting Yamato, Kaido didn't intend to kill him, Kaido was only attempting to physically, mentally and spiritually break Yamato until Yamato was submissive to his commands.Zoro is offensively stronger than Yamato based on the damage done to Kaido. And with Sanji's body undergoing a metamorphisis, his abilities and capabilities have increased.
Rather than renounce a character of Yamato's strength joining the Straw Hat Pirates, readers should rejoice, as it would mean Zoro and Sanji get be highlighted more in battle.
As for the general crew dynamics, Yamato joining may give more focus on Robin who has been criminally kept in the background for far too long. Yamato joining could also help add relevance to Jinbe presence’s in the crew. Yamato has been “imprisoned” for twenty years and there is no way that such a reality and past would not create emotional and mental scars within them. Jinbe has experience with being among former prisoners (Tiger, Koala and other Sun Pirates) so if Oda wanted it explored, he could have Jinbe help Yamato with any trauma and mental anguish they may have – Jinbe has helped Luffy through his mental trauma in the past. Robin after having met Koala (and being enslaved herself) may also have some insight in Yamato’s situation and be able to assist.
8. If there ever was a character who could join the Straw Hat Pirates with limited interactions with any of the Straw Hat Pirates outside of Luffy, it would be a character themed around Kozuki Oden, a character who joined the Roger Pirates with only interacting with Roger.
With that said, Yamato may yet get further interactions with the Straw Hat Pirates based on where he is currently heading - toward the Onigashima Skull dome.
I would’ve given likes for your reasonings as many times as I want, if only it were possible.
@Devil:
Here are the listed anti-Yamato arguments I can collect so far. Most of them sound ridiculous, but some are pretty good arguments. Let me summarize again:
1. Goroawase DF pattern
2. She doesn’t have specific role
3. She is introduced too late
4. Luffy calls her “Yamao” instead of “Yamato”. She is on the same level as Law & Kid
5. Her DF is Wano’s guardian deity
6. She read Oden’s journal. She knows too much especially about One Piece
7. She is too strong. She will break monster trio dynamic
8. She doesn’t interact with any other Straw Hats, only Luffy and briefly FrankyI’ve posted the counter-arguments for about 5 of them. But I really want to know what pro-Yamato’s counter arguments regarding the arguments above.
Fact is that with the only exception of maybe point 2 and 6, these are all "meta" arguments. The actual text of the story meanwhile keeps emphasizing Yamato's resolve to leave Wano on the Sunny. Now something must happen also in-story for him to stay there, and the only to options are still (a) he changes his mind (and does exactly what his father wanted him to do, remains stuck in the same place he was imprisoned for 20 years) or (b) Luffy refuses him (why would he?). If this was another manga thare would also be c) he tragically dies, but we know we're not going there.
The role can still be revealed, and we already have Robin there since forever doing nothing crucial for a pirate ship and it's never been a problem anyway.
The journal we can now safely assume has no significant spoilers about the One Piece, or else we'd have to conclude that someoe like Shinobu currently has Rayleigh levels of insight on Laugh Tale. that would be kinda anticlimatic .
So yeah, most of these don't even need to be actively counter-argumented, just ask "ok, so where do you think yamato's charachter arc is realistically going?".
I voted "Yes". And without meaning to offend anyone who disagrees, I feel that it's really, really an obvious call at this point.
I realize this is a bit meta (and maybe , but the big thing for me when it comes to Yamato vs Carrot is how much can be done with them onboard in terms of gag moments, emotional moments, fight motivations, shonen battle moments etc, and Yamato just wins those handily imho.
Oda to me is someone who almost always goes for the storytelling options that preserve the most potential down the road (which is a big part of why this series has gotten so big both in terms of scope and page count), and I feel that he has decided that Carrot didn't have as much potential as he originally envisioned, this type of thing happens in all sorts of serializations, an author thinks he's got the next big character, then gets to actually writing them and realizes there wasn't as much to them as he initially thought.
I think when you look at Onigashima as an arc (it really should be named its own arc imo), you can really see which characters Oda enjoys working with, and which ones he doesn't.
With all that said, I don't think Carrot is a completely lost case as a long-term Strawhat ally, she's clearly far, ar more developed than say, Inazuma, and will definitely be showing up again before the series is out.
On the Oden's journal argument I feel like people are always explaining it away using in character logic and why a character knowing more wasn't an issue before etc. Which I think is fine but rather why not ask yourself why Oda would even include a literary device like that to begin with.
What purpose would Oda have to include a logbook with all the answers left in the series? It's like omega ???????????????? It makes below 0 sense to expect that.
The logbook will have some info drop that everyone is going to learn about at the end of the arc is what I expect but just conceptually to believe it holds all the answer about One Piece is just so weird. Like that's the equivalent of an author introducing an item that only serves to spoil the readers, why would Oda ever do that?
The premise of the logbook holding all the knowledge that would bar Yamato from joining cause they'd be a living spoiler is just so extremely illogical to me. There is literally no point in Oda introducing something like that vs the much more reasonable premise that the logbook will hold 1 piece of info everyone is going to learn that might push the story forward or solve a lingering mystery people have been wondering about for a long time.
SHINOBU knows what's in the diary now. It ain't that important. It's an insight to Oden's personality and drive, and basically what we saw as readers, and probably not much else.
Its more important as a personal item rather than a lore item.
The strength argument is just god awful against Yams and Carrot both.
TLDR Oda doesn't give a fuck you have 1000+ chapters to look back on and compare with the dumbass views of powerscalers and you'll notice people thinking they know anything about that and conduct their assessments as faux science are always wrong.
The leeway for characters to be as strong or weak as they need to be is massive. Luffy got knocked out by goddamn Apoo this arc alone before he went toe to toe against Kaido. So I don't see how people still earnestly believe in power scaling garbage. It's absolute nonsense.
Lastly fucking Jinbe. Learn from the past folks. Power as in X is too weak or strong to join because it will upset the previous power dynamic will never be a good argument.
Well, let's just say this. No one has ever joined the crew and were clearly stronger than both Zoro and Sanji. That dynamic hasn't changed in all this time. On FI, Jinbe fought on par with Sanji. On Onigashima, Jinbe fought a Flying Six member and Sanji is fighting a commander, which shows yet again that Zoro and Sanji are stronger than the newest member. Yamato would clearly break that dynamic. You say that Oda doesn't care, but he's certainly not shown it with the crew up to this point. It's always been Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, everyone else.
2. Yes, no expressed ship role yet. But neither did Jinbe until WCI (helmsman was only a possibility until it was confirmed). At present, Yamato's ship role could be many things, including a role that seemingly appears inconsequential at this point to the journey of the Straw Hat Pirates. Until we get further focus on what exactly Yamato can do beyond fighting (and making Vivre Cards), certainty remains lacking:
- Fighter/Defender/Samurai
- Stonemason
- Den den Mushi-tuber/Marys-tuber - taking Oden's journal idea further by using state-of-the-art technology to create a visual recording of the journey to share with the world (the
cakeOne Piece is no lie)- Vivre Card craftsman - why does such an item exist? Does the history of Vivre Cards relate back to the Ancient Civilisation? Can the application of Vivre Cards be expanded on like how science expands on the use of Devil Fruits (Chopper, Caesar, Queen, Vegapunk)? In the absence of a Log Pose route, would the presence of a Vivre Card craftsman be helpful?
Yamato does have a potential story role going forward.
I (and a few others) actually predicted Jinbe would be a helmsman years ago. Here's my post from 2012.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28386&p=2696244#post2696244
Every SH has shown or had their role referenced within their first 20 chapters. Yamato hasn't shown anything obvious yet. Say what you will about Carrot or how useful her role would be, she at least has one that we can clearly see.
On the Oden's journal argument I feel like people are always explaining it away using in character logic and why a character knowing more wasn't an issue before etc. Which I think is fine but rather why not ask yourself why Oda would even include a literary device like that to begin with.
What purpose would Oda have to include a logbook with all the answers left in the series? It's like omega ???????????????? It makes below 0 sense to expect that.
The logbook will have some info drop that everyone is going to learn about at the end of the arc is what I expect but just conceptually to believe it holds all the answer about One Piece is just so weird. Like that's the equivalent of an author introducing an item that only serves to spoil the readers, why would Oda ever do that?The premise of the logbook holding all the knowledge that would bar Yamato from joining cause they'd be a living spoiler is just so extremely illogical to me. There is literally no point in Oda introducing something like that vs the much more reasonable premise that the logbook will hold 1 piece of info everyone is going to learn that might push the story forward or solve a lingering mystery people have been wondering about for a long time.
Precisely. Instead of having that kind of logic against Yamato joining, they should ask themselves first: Why would Oden (Oda) put information as important as One Piece in a journal? Oden is a Poneglyph writer & reader, why he didn’t put those informations in any indestructible Poneglyph steles? Then what is the purpose of the Poneglyphs (especially Road Poneglyphs), if everything about One Piece is in the journal?
It seems that a new remix of "Say my name" will be needed for Yamato.
Every SH has shown or had their role referenced within their first 20 chapters. Yamato hasn't shown anything obvious yet.
I personally don't think it matters and Oda will do what he normally does and just making something up (sniper and archaeologist aren't real roles, didn't need a helmsman for 900 chapters), but the above are a few obvious ways Oda could take it.
Well, let's just say this. No one has ever joined the crew and were clearly stronger than both Zoro and Sanji. That dynamic hasn't changed in all this time. On FI, Jinbe fought on par with Sanji. On Onigashima, Jinbe fought a Flying Six member and Sanji is fighting a commander, which shows yet again that Zoro and Sanji are stronger than the newest member. Yamato would clearly break that dynamic. You say that Oda doesn't care, but he's certainly not shown it with the crew up to this point. It's always been Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, everyone else.
Bollocks. When Robin joined there was 100% power scaling shittery about how she is stronger than Zoro, higher bounty blablabla all that nonsense and as always Oda didn't give a fuck and just went on to tell his story. Same shit for Jinbe people talking all about he is too strong to join well what do you know he joined.
History is repeating itself here with Yamato. Oda can flip perception with ease and he has done so dozen of times making people still trying to power scale to this day just look immensely foolish to me.
Also you didn't get the point. I'm saying Oda doesn't care for what the fanbase perceives are the power levels. He literally doesn't give a fuck or how do you explain Ulti drawing with Luffy, the Apoo thing, etc etc. Hence people insisting Yamato is too strong to join are just full of shit as people that insisted robin is too strong/stronger as well as Jinbe. It's a garbage tier argument. The same way Carrot being to weak to join is a garbage tier argument.
Oda will bend characters powers as he likes cause in the end that shit doesn't matter to the degree all the dumb powerscalers like to pretend it does.
Kinda using strong language because reading the type of discussion that happen in these power scaling circles you literally feel your braincells rotting away.
Heck it wasn't too fucking long ago when I saw in the discussions on here certain people being upset at Kaido being a wimp cause he got punched by Luffy. Bonafide powerscaling dumbassery. ~30 chapters later they're all silent now.
Bollocks. When Robin joined there was 100% power scaling shittery about how she is stronger than Zoro, higher bounty blablabla all that nonsense and as always Oda didn't give a fuck and just went on to tell his story. Same shit for Jinbe people talking all about he is too strong to join well what do you know he joined.
History is repeating itself here with Yamato. Oda can flip perception with ease and he has done so dozen of times making people still trying to power scale to this day just look immensely foolish to me.Also you didn't get the point. I'm saying Oda doesn't care for what the fanbase perceives are the power levels. He literally doesn't give a fuck or how do you explain Ulti drawing with Luffy, the Apoo thing, etc etc. Hence people insisting Yamato is too strong to join are just full of shit as people that insistent robin is too strong/stronger as well as Jinbe. It's a garbage tier argument. The same way Carrot being to weak to join is a garbage tier argument.
Oda will bend characters powers as he likes cause in the end that shit doesn't matter to the degree all the dumb powerscalers like to pretend it does.
People point to Jinbe's delayed joining as being proof that Oda cares about power scaling, but one example doesn't prove anything. It could just as easily be that Oda thought Law's strong personality wouldn't have mixed well with Jinbe (Punk Hazard and Dressrosa), and that he just didn't want to have to have to come up with a way to disguise Jinbe in Wano (Kawamatsu was discriminated against for being a fishman and had to pretend to be a mythical water spirit to get by). Law and Jinbe also have also had a similar dynamic with the crew, namely straight man/outsider, so they would have stepped on each other if Jinbe showed up earlier.
Also, not that I think it matters, but it seems pretty clear to me that Zoro, Sanji, and Yamato (and even potentially Jinbe) will come out of Onigashima around YC level. Anyone who cares about power scaling within the crew can easily argue that Yamato isn't clearly stronger than Zoro or Sanji.
Bollocks. When Robin joined there was 100% power scaling shittery about how she is stronger than Zoro, higher bounty blablabla all that nonsense and as always Oda didn't give a fuck and just went on to tell his story. Same shit for Jinbe people talking all about he is too strong to join well what do you know he joined.
History is repeating itself here with Yamato. Oda can flip perception with ease and he has done so dozen of times making people still trying to power scale to this day just look immensely foolish to me.Also you didn't get the point. I'm saying Oda doesn't care for what the fanbase perceives are the power levels. He literally doesn't give a fuck or how do you explain Ulti drawing with Luffy, the Apoo thing, etc etc. Hence people insisting Yamato is too strong to join are just full of shit as people that insistent robin is too strong/stronger as well as Jinbe. It's a garbage tier argument. The same way Carrot being to weak to join is a garbage tier argument.
Oda will bend characters powers as he likes cause in the end that shit doesn't matter to the degree all the dumb powerscalers like to pretend it does.
Robin being stronger than both Zoro and Sanji was debatable and I wasn't around here back then making that argument. And I made no mention of bounties because the only thing worth less than "powerscalers" are those that think bounties actually mean much. Ask Jack or Kid or anyone else with inflated bounties.
I'm not sure how you can flip any perceptions when we've seen Zoro tank one combined yonko attack and then essentially have every bone in his body broken and need some sort of miracle drug just to move. If it was Yamato, he/she would've shrugged it off and went on the attack. That's my point. Yamato having mastered CoC haki, having a strong DF, and going toe to toe with Kaido for who knows how long vs Zoro having his bones broken in one attack and showing a split second of CoC clearly shows that Yamato is stronger than Luffy's always strongest crew mate.
On a side note, you need to calm down. This is supposed to be a place for civil discussions.
Jinbe is one of the strongest and most famous pirates in the world and he's just the helmsman, not disturbing anything.
And both Zoro and Sanji are in the middle of getting power ups right now against higher rank officers.
I meant upsetting the dynamics in the sense that Yamato on top of the recently joined Jinbe makes the team very top heavy power-wise. I'd hate to see the weaker Strawhats get shafted (As they kinda have in this arc, so far) because the gap between them and the heavy hitters has gotten too large.
By the VILLAIN. No one with Yamato's actual interests in mind has brought it up.
But there was no actual need to give Yamato that particular Devil Fruit unless there's an important reason. We just don't know what that reason is yet.
I'm not against Yamato joining, I'm just not seeing it as obvious as I thought I would.
You know all this talk of journals and what not makes me think that Yamato's role would obviously be scribe. No one's really recording the stories of the Strawhats. Having someone on the crew who would be enraptured enough by the stories of the Strawhats' previous exploits to write them all down, along with the final arcs, could be a fun role to see filled. Imagine Usopp giving interviews to Yamato as they sail X-D
But yeah, of all Yamato's directly stated desires and wishes, none of them are accomplished by staying in Wano. Heck, finding out that Momo and Oden's Samurai were all still alive actually allows her to offload her supposed duties to Wano
I'm new to this, but I'm curious about the history. People often mention how much Oda likes to surprise us, but in the end a lot of the broad strokes are pretty obvious. Has there ever been a time where the community as a whole thought something was going to happen only for Oda to go another way? For example, did most people think Vivi would join the crew permanently, or that the Merry would be the ship for the whole story, or that Ace would survive Marineford? My experience watching and reading for the past year is that Oda likes to surprise by dropping new information on top of what he's already built, rather than taking a big expectation and going a different way.
You know all this talk of journals and what not makes me think that Yamato's role would obviously be scribe. No one's really recording the stories of the Strawhats. Having someone on the crew who would be enraptured enough by the stories of the Strawhats' previous exploits to write them all down, along with the final arcs, could be a fun role to see filled. Imagine Usopp giving interviews to Yamato as they sail X-D
But yeah, of all Yamato's directly stated desires and wishes, none of them are accomplished by staying in Wano. Heck, finding out that Momo and Oden's Samurai were all still alive actually allows her to offload her supposed duties to Wano
I keep seeing this and I have two issues with it. One, Yamato has only shown the ability to read a journal. That's a skill that everyone in the series has. Nothing has been shown that indicates that Yamato actually has a desire to write anything. Secondly, what would be the point of someone writing the last chapter in a book when they had no idea what happened before that last chapter?
I keep seeing this and I have two issues with it. One, Yamato has only shown the ability to read a journal. That's a skill that everyone in the series has. Nothing has been shown that indicates that Yamato actually has a desire to write anything. Secondly, what would be the point of someone writing the last chapter in a book when they had no idea what happened before that last chapter?
My response to these issues would be: Oden never showed any aptitude or interest in reading or writing beyond knowing the language of the Poneglyphs, yet his log is a central plot device in Wano. Oden's log also missed Roger's entire journey until the final leg, including his encounter with Rocks and his first trip around the Grand Line. Luffy and the Strawhats probably have much more to do before the end of Luffy's journey than what Oden recorded of Roger by comparison.
Regardless of how you feel about who writes the ship's log, the idea of having a log has been in Oda's mind since Baratie. Noland's log helped them in Jaya, and now Oden's log is helping them Wano. Despite this, we haven't seen a hint of anyone in the Strawhats writing about the story of their journey (I'm not counting Nami drawing maps).
Voted no. Yamato isn't joining. Carrot isn't either. I will delete my Arlong Park forums account if either of those characters join.
You all are lying to yourselves if you want someone journaling the SH adventures and it not being the combined efforts of Usopp and Big News F. Morgan.
I don't think Oda has ever been secretive about whom is going to join. I started weekly at Impel Down and I caught up on a weekend read. I was also never spoiled on anything about the story, besides the volume covers, which a briefly checked. Honestly, I only started checking them more after joining the forums. I personally don't like meta hints, I prefer the actual story to show me what I need to know. Which is why I am not a fan of the SBS having the answers to some in story questions.
I also am not seeking them out or wonder with every new character. Like during those two days reading, the question was on my mind, but I was not looking for clues. Oda's writing style, was pretty straight, no chaser. I also didn't have weeks to speculate, so the following is more how I read the events. There is a difference between reading Robin stowing away and her saying I wanna live, in a span of few hours vs years.
Zoro: Luffy searched for him. Plus volume cover.
Nami: Chapter title, navigator that steals from pirates. Volume cover.
Usopp: Chapter title. Central to his introduction arc.
Sanji: Cook not dressed like a cook. All the other chefs look like fodder, and the other two, were there two? Are like elite fodder at best. Besides, central to the current mission/arc: finding a cook. Inherits Zeff's will.
Chopper: Looking for a doctor, Doctorine was too experienced in world affairs (Will of D.), and she had a disciple in Chopper. (Also, talking reindeer).
Robin: Important since her introduction by position in BW. Saves Luffy, which makes you question her goals, and at the end you wonder where she will go with marines surrounding everyone and Bon-chan ready to be sacrificed. Not to mention second time hearing about the mysteries of the world. Kureha says the Will of D. And Croco is looking for Ancient Weapons/poneglyphs which Robin can read. At the very least we would see her again.
Franky: Franky made an impression from the start, much more than any other shipwright. Like the twist for me was that he dismantles things, but we soon learn that he is Tom's disciple, do it with DON and a thong. Anyways, I was too focused on everything else, especially Usopp and Robin to even care about finding the new kid. By the end of this arc, the shipwright would prove themselves anyways. Who is Paulie?
Brooke: I mean Luffy asked from the get go, and to distinguish from the impromptu request Luffy does as a joke, Brooke was actually a depressed human trapped for over 50 years, Luffy is the right person to help said skeleton.
Jimbe: I've been a fan from the start. At this point I am reading weekly and I used to post in other forums. Before the crew split, the slavery/Nami relations with Fishmen/Mermen made me think that someone from that race should join. Fishman Island was the next destination, I was looking forward to a recruitment there. Luffy is starting to be positioned as someone pivotal in the upcoming war and breaker of status quo. I started thinking of Jimbe as an option by his strong introduction, and the relations between humans and his kind and how is Luffy involved. When we see Ace asking Jimbe to look after Luffy, I just couldn't think of anyone better. I think it is easy to see why he was delayed joining, put Jimbe in any of the previous arcs from the get go, it becomes even easier for the SHs. They wouldn't even have made it to Punk Hazard.
I just made a huge post with my current takes in the previous thread but to summarize.
No new crew member in sight, but Yamato is the only candidate since Jimbe, because again, who the hell is Paulie?
My prediction for Yamato: They will receive Luffy's vivre card. Hence, becoming part of the fleet. The fleet is comprised of a bunch of followers, and people have mentioned that Yamato's relationship is more lopsided in regards to Luffy. However, I could see Yamato and Luffy sharing a sake cup in front of Ace's grave, with Yamato leaving something there.
Yamato actually proves the point that the "too late" argument is an arbitrary rule as Oda is highly capable of making a likeable character and have people cheer for them even this -late- in the game.
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Franky: Franky made an impression from the start, much more than any other shipwright. Like the twist for me was that he dismantles things, but we soon learn that he is Tom's disciple, do it with DON and a thong. Anyways, I was too focused on everything else, especially Usopp and Robin to even care about finding the new kid. By the end of this arc, the shipwright would prove themselves anyways. Who is Paulie?
As well as Oda leading with confusion, so that it would be less easy and thus less boring to know 100% as to who would join.
As well as Oda leading with confusion, so that it would be less easy and thus less boring to know 100% as to who would join.
https://i.ibb.co/FBg0JN5/Screen-Shot-2021-10-18-at-1-49-30-PM.png
These kind of quotes are why the log keeper role makes the most sense to me. Logs have been around since before chapter 50, and I could imagine Oda thinking something like "The one who wrote Roger's log will be one of the ones who wrote the true history, and this is how Luffy will find his log keeper" early on in the writing of the manga, and the time it's taken to get to Wano has just ballooned as the world grew. The rest of the details of Oden and Yamato could have been fleshed out as their appearance got closer, which would explain why they feel like last minute or self-insert characters to some.
My response to these issues would be: Oden never showed any aptitude or interest in reading or writing beyond knowing the language of the Poneglyphs, yet his log is a central plot device in Wano. Oden's log also missed Roger's entire journey until the final leg, including his encounter with Rocks and his first trip around the Grand Line. Luffy and the Strawhats probably have much more to do before the end of Luffy's journey than what Oden recorded of Roger by comparison.
Regardless of how you feel about who writes the ship's log, the idea of having a log has been in Oda's mind since Baratie. Noland's log helped them in Jaya, and now Oden's log is helping them Wano. Despite this, we haven't seen a hint of anyone in the Strawhats writing about the story of their journey (I'm not counting Nami drawing maps).
Umm… It was his decision to write the journal. The journal wasn't written by someone else about Oden. Shinobu, Momo, and the samurai with Yamato also read Oden's journal. I read books all the time. Does that mean I can write one? Nope. People are conflating a person's ability to read with their capability to write. And that's still besides the fact that getting someone to write the final chapter in a book that hasn't even been started yet doesn't make much sense. Plus, Yamato has still shown zero interest in writing anything.
