Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

[Ivotas]

@Galleon-Panthera said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Galleon-Panthera said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Strawhat Jedi's logic is very good:

• We didn't see Carrot's decision
• Carrot's apparent conclusion does not fit her character arc
• Pedro's will is vague enough to mean "keep going with Luffy"
• We didn't see Carrot's farewell

What's against it is the huge amount of off-screening Wano got, specially in its conclusion.

Under normal circunstances, the chances of Carrot popping up would be overwhelmingly good.

But Wano's ending is just so underwhelmingly put together that it could have been Carrot's conclusion and we are just meant to take it as done.

If she doesn't pop up in the next chapters to clarify either outcome, God knows when her supporters will feel like all the chances have been spent.

I for one wouldn't be happy if Carrot indeed got offscreened like Hyogoro did, and didn't get a conclusion to that answer. It wouldn't be any different from the people that put all their bets on Yamato, only get a tomato splat onto their faces.

That said, to be honest, I have already pretty much given up on any chances of Carrot reappearing, because I can't think of a scenario that calls her to step out of her hiding place.

I love to be surprised though...so who knows?

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'd be lying if I'd say I'm not still hoping that she has stowed away a second time. But it also comes across as my just not wanting to let go, so I'm already expecting this not to be the case.

I agree though that she would totally be treated dirty if that was the last we saw of her at this part in the story. For somebody who stowed away on the Sunny and experienced the wonders and dangers of the world for the very first time thanks to and together with the Strawhats, it's totally unforgiveable that we didn't get even a single panel where they say 'bye'.

Everybody who travelled with the Strawhats got a good bye scene be it the very big one with Vivi or a small one with Johnny and Yosaku who said, that they'll be going their own ways again. Carrot definitely deserves a good bye, but Wano really offscreened a lot.

Also the entire King of the Minks thing is a red herring at best and a cop out at worst. It feels totally undeserving and unearned. Not that she's not worth to become king in the future as an adult. But right now it comes totally out of the left field as if Oda has to conclude her arc somehow by giving her something (that's the copout). Of course the chances are that it's a red herring to throw the readers off because by the time it was brought up Oda still went Yamato route.

Either way, the entire king thing rubbs me the wrong way. It hasn't even to do with Carrot not joining. I just find it totally unfair to her. She also wanted to see the wonders of the world, just like Yamato. And while Carrot got some glimpses of Tottoland and Wano, there's still far more out there. Ok, she has already seen more different islands than Yamato but a) Yamato is free to leave and b) for Yamato experiencing Wano is already a completely new experience from being imprisoned in Onigashima. Carrot on the other hand now has to stay behind at Zou so that Inu and Neko can be at Wano. That's a very selfish dick move from the two.

Strawhat or not, I'd be happy if the girl actually rejected that offer and revived the Nox Pirates. That would fit her adventurous free spirit more than staying behind to rule a country. It's already rough to have a child like Momo rule a country but that was his birthright and he's always been prepared to do this, no matter how hard it is. But for Carrot it's "oh by the way, you're the new ruler of the country (so that you can stay chained here, while we are hanging around with our Sake loving frinds in Wano)". Not happy about that development at all.

Oh I agree with the idea its a cop out, and that Neko and Inu are dumbasses at best, given they should know by now how Carrot values the Straw Hats. They have Wanda and loudmouth Shishilan to do their thing if they like to stay on Wano so much...which on itself is selfish.

If they can be that selfish, then Carrot can be so too. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea she can get to become Queen of Zou....but not like this. Something like this, has to be rightfully earned, and if people think that she doesn't earn to be a Straw Hat....she's even less quailified to be royality out of nowhere.

I mean, holy hell, we are talking about a girl who mistakes natural lightning for Electro.

On that said, I don't see her creating a crew or reviving the Nox Pirates. It requires leadership quailities. Quailities she doesn't have, or else her "promotion" would have made sense.

Now maybe Oda is planning some wacked out scene for her to join....maybe at a Full Moon scenario where they are in a dangerous situation, so all the Straw Hats can see her Sulong form in action....given only Chopper, Nami, Brook and Jinbei saw it, and not the rest, like Luffy, who hasn't seen any Sulongs at all, but that is really the only thing I can think up reasonably why she hasn't yet showed herself, just yet.

If so, I'd prefer this a lot, so its not just a simple stowaway action.

What I find so special about Carrot's Sulong form, is that it doesn't just make her faster and stronger, but she also gets a growth spurt and gets a more adult voice, as compared to her jolly, youthful self.

I agree with everything you said. And please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that she is qualified to be a captain. But her sailing out (be it by herself as Luffy did or with a pack of Minks) is more in line with her character (arc) than just becoming the ruler of the Minks.

As I said, I'm not holding out my breath for anything. And if this was still pre-timeskip Oda then I would bet anything I have on all the remaining signs pointing at her having stowed away and becoming a Strawhat. But with how weird Oda handled things in Wano I'm expecting the worst.

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Pedro was a leader, it's true. He led the Nox Pirates. If it's shown that Carrot truly believes that he would want her to lead Zou and bring the dawn that way, I would accept it.

However, he was a leader in service to the dukes. His leadership was a means to an end with a clear, if broad, goal in mind and the autonomy to go where he needed to go to achieve it. What Carrot is being tasked to do, rule over all the Minks, would not only restrict her to a pretty small location, one that can move but she can't control by choice, but would be a lifelong committment with no real finish line.

Carrot wanted so desperately to see more outside Zou that she jumped onto Luffy’s ship. And now she's being told she's seen enough; that she can go back to Zou and stay there to fulfill her duty. She hasn't decided that. If she's faced with the prospect that the adventure in the outside world is over, I don't think she's going to accept it. Pedro said to move onward, and what that means is up to her. And based on all I've seen, moving onward for her means getting back out into the world and bringing the dawn that way.

Well if Yamato can change her mind about sailing out quickly, then I suppose Carrot can also change her mind about sailing the world, since she does always care about her fellow minks.

The Carrot in Chapter 1056 definitely isn't the same as the Carrot in Chapter 804, so maybe it's possible it has been enough time that she has changed her mind, maybe she hasn't. Once again, I'll have to see for myself.

I just hope Carrot says "screw you guys, I'm creating my own band pirate crew" and just set's sail. Even if she is not the same Carrot from chapter 804 anymore, she definitely is not the ruler of a kingdom.

Carrot was a Kingsbird along with Wanda, so I'd have to figure that was the lead up to Carrot being rulers with her if anything. I'm just saying it's possible after all.

Oh, I wasn't it's impossible. I was merely saying that this entire development is taking a dump on the character. Maknig her stay tied to Zou so that the Cat and Dog can stay with their friends. It's like "well Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country but Carrot on the other hand has to suffer exactly that." I just hate it.

[electricmastro]

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country

I personally might be alone in thinking Yamato has bounded herself in Wano in another way, but time will tell.

[Ivotas]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country

I personally might be alone in thinking Yamato has bounded herself in Wano in another way, but time will tell.

There's a difference though if somebody tells you to stay and you have no way of escaping and you yourself chosing to stay while you're free to leave whenever you want. There's zero feeling of oppression in the latter.

[electricmastro]

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country

I personally might be alone in thinking Yamato has bounded herself in Wano in another way, but time will tell.

There's a difference though if somebody tells you to stay and you have no way of escaping and you yourself chosing to stay while you're free to leave whenever you want. There's zero feeling of oppression in the latter.

We’ll have to see how much Inu and Neko are the villains in how they treated Carrot then, and how much of oppression Carrot is facing in being forced to do things as if being a slave. Time will tell, as always.

As for Yamato, I’m talking about possibly choosing to be on Oden’s path on the grounds of it being assumed to be the way she’d find her way to sea, because it gives me the impression she’s making her choice out of feeling obligated to be in Wano just because Oden was in Wano.

Basically, I know Yamato made a choice, but that making a choice because one wants to make one’s self happy and making a choice because she feels it would make someone else happy doesn’t always line-up is what I think I’m trying to say. Am I making sense?

[Ivotas]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country

I personally might be alone in thinking Yamato has bounded herself in Wano in another way, but time will tell.

There's a difference though if somebody tells you to stay and you have no way of escaping and you yourself chosing to stay while you're free to leave whenever you want. There's zero feeling of oppression in the latter.

We’ll have to see how much Inu and Neko are the villains in how they treated Carrot then, and how much of oppression Carrot is facing in being forced to do things as if being a slave. Time will tell, as always.

As for Yamato, I’m talking about possibly choosing to be on Oden’s path on the grounds of it being assumed to be the way she’d find her way to sea, because it gives me the impression she’s making her choice out of feeling obligated to be in Wano just because Oden was in Wano.

Basically, I know Yamato made a choice, but that making a choice because one wants to make one’s self happy and making a choice because she feels it would make someone else happy doesn’t always line-up is what I think I’m trying to say. Am I making sense?

Of course the world is not as black and white. You don't automatically are a villain by doing things like this. But still the choice to burden Carrot with this even though it goes directly against everything the character stands for so far is a dick move. And a selfish one if you consider what they do it for.

Also this entire Pedro's will thing is kind of a confuddled mess. His will is to bring the dawn to the world, which aligns with whatever happens to Wano when they open the borders. So if it's essential to stay at Zou in order to achieve Pedro's will, shouldn't Inu and Neko actually continue to rule Zou for the sake of their Shogun to make sure that Pedro's will aids the Shoguns wishes of opening the country?

It all just seems a bit wishy washy to me and not clearly defined but rather thrown out there because it sounds cool.

I get what you're saying about Yamato. And while I don't disagree that Yamato is doing this also for someone else, I would definitely say that she is also staying behind for herself, because there is a huge country to discover and explore. I mean she loves the country Oden loved so much and yet hasn't witnessed it with her own eyes. To me it's absolutely not a stretch to believe that she actually enjoyes seeing this country. Also if we add a fanboy/fangirls kind of mindset to the equation, I'm sure that she enjoys beeing amongst Oden's Samurai. Not to mention Oden's son who looks exactly like her idol. I don't see how she's not enjoying this.

[Kishido]

Let us just say, that Yamato will join and move on OK?

[electricmastro]

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country

I personally might be alone in thinking Yamato has bounded herself in Wano in another way, but time will tell.

There's a difference though if somebody tells you to stay and you have no way of escaping and you yourself chosing to stay while you're free to leave whenever you want. There's zero feeling of oppression in the latter.

We’ll have to see how much Inu and Neko are the villains in how they treated Carrot then, and how much of oppression Carrot is facing in being forced to do things as if being a slave. Time will tell, as always.

As for Yamato, I’m talking about possibly choosing to be on Oden’s path on the grounds of it being assumed to be the way she’d find her way to sea, because it gives me the impression she’s making her choice out of feeling obligated to be in Wano just because Oden was in Wano.

Basically, I know Yamato made a choice, but that making a choice because one wants to make one’s self happy and making a choice because she feels it would make someone else happy doesn’t always line-up is what I think I’m trying to say. Am I making sense?

Of course the world is not as black and white. You don't automatically are a villain by doing things like this. But still the choice to burden Carrot with this even though it goes directly against everything the character stands for so far is a dick move. And a selfish one if you consider what they do it for.

I get what you're saying about Yamato. And while I don't disagree that Yamato is doing this also for someone else, I would definitely say that she is also staying behind for herself, because there is a huge country to discover and explore.

I understand that what Carrot ultimately stands for is the well-being of her fellow minks, even stopping her fun adventuring even if it meant trying to avenge Pedro.

With Momo, he's a new shogun rising up in a land recently attacked by a tyrant Emperor and tyrant shogun. Inu and Neko care about not only Oden's legacy and Want, but also presumably want to help Momo rise up as the shogun he wants to be, since he has potential ,but is also mentally 8 years old, so I'm not sure how selfish that would be.

And if that's the case with Yamato, then more of Yamato's conversation and expression of her thoughts provided would help me understand better. Not sure how Oda expects to better understand a character's thoughts and feeling if he leaves out more conversations involving them, as was the case with Chapter 1057.

[fapfapfap]

I was a firm believer Carrot will join after WCI arc but during Wano she mostly disappeared and my opinion started to change. But with Luffy name-dropping Pedro during his fight with Kaido (which felt out of place) and Carrot's reaction to become one of Zou's next ruler I really think she might join. It's also just weird the Strawhats were never shown saying goodbye to her. That plus her fight with Perospero where he told her to go back home and munch on grass. It feels like she'll come back into the storyline again soon.

[Ivotas]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Yamato is finally free now and not bound by stupid ideas of her father/leader to govern a country

I personally might be alone in thinking Yamato has bounded herself in Wano in another way, but time will tell.

There's a difference though if somebody tells you to stay and you have no way of escaping and you yourself chosing to stay while you're free to leave whenever you want. There's zero feeling of oppression in the latter.

We’ll have to see how much Inu and Neko are the villains in how they treated Carrot then, and how much of oppression Carrot is facing in being forced to do things as if being a slave. Time will tell, as always.

As for Yamato, I’m talking about possibly choosing to be on Oden’s path on the grounds of it being assumed to be the way she’d find her way to sea, because it gives me the impression she’s making her choice out of feeling obligated to be in Wano just because Oden was in Wano.

Basically, I know Yamato made a choice, but that making a choice because one wants to make one’s self happy and making a choice because she feels it would make someone else happy doesn’t always line-up is what I think I’m trying to say. Am I making sense?

Of course the world is not as black and white. You don't automatically are a villain by doing things like this. But still the choice to burden Carrot with this even though it goes directly against everything the character stands for so far is a dick move. And a selfish one if you consider what they do it for.

I get what you're saying about Yamato. And while I don't disagree that Yamato is doing this also for someone else, I would definitely say that she is also staying behind for herself, because there is a huge country to discover and explore.

I understand that what Carrot ultimately stands for is the well-being of her fellow minks, even stopping her fun adventuring even if it meant trying to avenge Pedro.

With Momo, he's a new shogun rising up in a land recently attacked by a tyrant Emperor and tyrant shogun. Inu and Neko care about not only Oden's legacy and Want, but also presumably want to help Momo rise up as the shogun he wants to be, since he has potential ,but is also mentally 8 years old, so I'm not sure how selfish that would be.

And if that's the case with Yamato, then more of Yamato's conversation and expression of her thoughts provided would help me understand better. Not sure how Oda expects to better understand a character's thoughts and feeling if he leaves out more conversations involving them, as was the case with Chapter 1057.

If there's One Piece that we can say about the One Piece world, it's that it's characters find their individual ways to achieve what motivates them. If Carrot stands for the well-being of her fellow Minks than staying behind at Zou is not the only thing she could do. As stated previoulsy about this Pedro's will thing, it's not clearly defined what it is or at least not why it suddenly requires to stay behind and rule at Zou when he gave his life to make sure the Strawhats can escape, who he thought would be the one to bring the dawn to the world. Carrot is pretty much the only Mink who actually knows this about Pedro. So if the well being of the Mink tribe is tied to Pedro's will, then at least to Carrot this could also mean to actually support the Strawhats on their journey. Again, not believing (but still hoping) that this will happen anymore, but definitely something pre-timeskip Oda would go for.

I can understand the feeling to help Momo. But staying behind at Zou also helps Momo. Perhaps not in the same manner as raising him but it definitely helps. After all, Momo has plenty of other loyal retainers to raise him but if it's about protecting Zou and keeping it ready for when the promised day comes, then Inu and Neko are literally by far the strongest Minks out there and the most capable at leading. Making the least qualified and least interested child the new ruler, with a whack explenation such as Pedro's Will is just irresponsible. Not to mention why the actual leaders care about Pedro's will that much in the first place. If it's so imporant why didn't they make him ruler previously already instead of having two rulers that worked on a shift system. Honestly, this Pedro's Will thing just keeps bugging me the more I think about it. At least in the context of Inu and Neko putting ephasis on it.

Not gonna defend Oda here. You're absolutely right, that he should have actually shown cruicial moments in Yamatos way of thinking rather than keeping them hidden for a surprise reveal that sits so unwell with many readers. But I think if one just applies basic logic on how a completely normal human would think, then it should not be a stretch to assume that Yamato enjoys having the chance to explore the country Oden loved so much, being amongst Oden's retainers and being friends with Oden's son who looks exactly like his father. I don't think we need Oda to tell us explain this to us.

[StrawHatJedi]

@Shift Thanks Shift!

[StrawHatJedi]

@Deicide

Yeah, I think we have some room to see what happens on route to the next island. I suspect it might not be an exact repeat of the events of chapter 823 if Carrot indeed stows away.

[danie]

@Kishido Yamato will join in the same sense Kin'emon and Momo will. I think Oda has made that clear.

[StrawHatJedi]

@Shift

Yeah and expanding on this, we now know where Zunesha is headed, eventually back to Wano - and it's going there regardless of Carrot's leadership (or lack thereof). Momo is the one who calls the shots when it comes to Zunesha - when he calls, Zunesha comes back, but not before then.

Carrot is restricted to 'leading' the Minks, even though Shishilian is the muscle, and Wanda is still more or less telling her what to do. So, she's basically a figurehead in a sense.

And as you said, she completely lacks autonomy / agency, if 1056 was indeed her conclusion. She didn't even get to say yes, she didn't think back on Pedro' words and conclude that taking charge is what he would want from her.

She was told to do a job by Inu and Neko and they were the ones who said it was decided before she could even get a word in. They dismissed all of her protests and then used Pedro's name to guilt her into accepting... which she never actually did.

[Kishido]

@danie I know that... So can someone make some Momo theories as well

[danie]

The thing about Carrot is that Oda doesn't care about her nearly as much as you'll do, so she'll stick with the minks and will be happy about it.

Criticize Oda about this if you must but do yourselves a favor and don't deny it.

[electricmastro]

@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Kishido Yamato will join in the same sense Kin'emon and Momo will. I think Oda has made that clear.

I feel that Yamato will share a dream with Momo and Kinemon, in a similar way Sanji shared a dream with Zeff or Franky shared a dream with Tom, which will give Yamato enough purpose to go with Luffy to Laugh Tale.

[electricmastro]

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

But I think if one just applies basic logic on how a completely normal human would think, then it should not be a stretch to assume that Yamato enjoys having the chance to explore the country Oden loved so much, being amongst Oden's retainers and being friends with Oden's son who looks exactly like his father. I don't think we need Oda to tell us explain this to us.

Well if human logic is really truly at play here, then I think I’m fine with suspecting that Yamato may possibly be holding herself back due to feeling obligated to Oden in copying everything he did, even as so far as to pick copying Oden above sailing to fun times with Luffy because she feels that obligation to serve Oden, even though she’s not really obligated, given how she admires him a lot already.

[King Cannon]

@danie This is what I believe as well. Wano was not particularly kind to Carrot and she was mostly treated as a plot thread he had no idea what to do with, to the point he was comfortable ignoring her for large portions of the raid and letting one of the Mink Kings take over what should've been her struggle.

There's enough evidence that Oda just rushed and fumbled everything post-raid, so all payoffs ended up half-baked. Ruler Carrot would be just another one to that pile.

[Shift]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Well if Yamato can change her mind about sailing out quickly, then I suppose Carrot can also change her mind about sailing the world, since she does always care about her fellow minks.
The Carrot in Chapter 1056 definitely isn't the same as the Carrot in Chapter 804, so maybe it's possible it has been enough time that she has changed her mind, maybe she hasn't. Once again, I'll have to see for myself.

There's a key phrase: can change their mind. I said for a long time during Wano that Yamato could change his mind, choose not to go with the crew, which of course not many agreed with at the time. And I acknowledged that Carrot could likewise choose not to go.

Now the arc is over, and Yamato's choice has been made very clear: he did change his mind, and he stayed with everyone on Wano while the crew sailed off. Oda made it a cut and dry case.

The fact that he didn't make Carrot's choice perfectly clear, left her with doubt after the arc was supposed to be over, indicates to me that her choice will have repurcussions that will affect the story moving forward. If she's going to accept staying on Zou, the only reason to delay showing that is if her choice is super important and will shake things up. And what would shake things up the most? Being a Straw Hat. That's why the delay in her choice is so crazy to me, because being a Straw Hat is clearly on one side of the scale, and it's what would make people react to the most.

[electricmastro]

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Now the arc is over, and Yamato's choice has been made very clear: he did change his mind, and he stayed with everyone on Wano while the crew sailed off. Oda made it a cut and dry case.

I guess I'm curious to see how much time passes before Yamato's case possibly grows and becomes wet then.

[fapfapfap]

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

[electricmastro]

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

The most simple explanation: that Yamato didn't have a clear greater purpose with Luffy and didn't want the development of that to further delay the Straw Hats moving on.

[fana]

I'm having a hard time with how lacking Yamato changing her mind was handled. And it's not a "I wanted Yamato to join and I'm disappointed" take. I'm fine with the crew being complete with Jinbe.

It's Oda hammering panels after panels of her saying that she will join and not even showing the convo of when she said to the crew that actually she wants to do a tour of Wano before leaving.

I could have accepted it more easily if it wasn't handled so casually in one off-panel convo and one panel delivery following a chapter ending focusing on her.

Also, that reason to stay behind for a while is weak. Maybe the future cover story can make that tour interesting but right now a delay to tour Wano seem so boring.

[fapfapfap]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

The most simple explanation: that Yamato didn't have a clear greater purpose with Luffy and didn't want the development of that to further delay the Straw Hats moving on.

I just think Oda wrote Yamato to be a red herring or even possibly lightly troll the readers. Yamato staying in Wano also feels like a bit of parallel with Katakuri. Both were children of Yonkos and both are in considerable positions of power now that their respective parents have been defeated (ie. passing of the torch to the next generation).

[electricmastro]

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

The most simple explanation: that Yamato didn't have a clear greater purpose with Luffy and didn't want the development of that to further delay the Straw Hats moving on.

I just think Oda wrote Yamato to be a red herring or even possibly lightly troll the readers. Yamato staying in Wano also feels like a bit of parallel with Katakuri. Both were children of Yonkos and both are in considerable positions of power now that their respective parents have been defeated (ie. passing of the torch to the next generation).

I understand red herrings are meant to distract and mislead? But that’s the thing. Yamato is meant to distract us from what exactly? Mislead us from what exactly?

[Shift]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

The most simple explanation: that Yamato didn't have a clear greater purpose with Luffy and didn't want the development of that to further delay the Straw Hats moving on.

I just think Oda wrote Yamato to be a red herring or even possibly lightly troll the readers. Yamato staying in Wano also feels like a bit of parallel with Katakuri. Both were children of Yonkos and both are in considerable positions of power now that their respective parents have been defeated (ie. passing of the torch to the next generation).

I understand red herrings are meant to distract and mislead? But that’s the thing. Yamato is meant to distract us from what exactly? Mislead us from what exactly?

From Carrot, pretty much.

[Shiebs]

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

The most simple explanation: that Yamato didn't have a clear greater purpose with Luffy and didn't want the development of that to further delay the Straw Hats moving on.

I just think Oda wrote Yamato to be a red herring or even possibly lightly troll the readers. Yamato staying in Wano also feels like a bit of parallel with Katakuri. Both were children of Yonkos and both are in considerable positions of power now that their respective parents have been defeated (ie. passing of the torch to the next generation).

reminds me of the post time skip Kage's in Naruto were all present as the right hand men of the original Kage during the Kage meeting arc

minus Garra and Naruto

[electricmastro]

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@fapfapfap said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

With where we're at in the story I don't understand how Yamato could have a delayed joining. Oda's been very clear that he wants to wrap up the series and Wano's rushed ending just further cements this.

The most simple explanation: that Yamato didn't have a clear greater purpose with Luffy and didn't want the development of that to further delay the Straw Hats moving on.

I just think Oda wrote Yamato to be a red herring or even possibly lightly troll the readers. Yamato staying in Wano also feels like a bit of pparallel with Katakuri. Both were children of Yonkos and both are in considerable positions of power now that their respective parents have been defeated (ie. passing of the torch to the next generation).

I understand red herrings are meant to distract and mislead? But that’s the thing. Yamato is meant to distract us from what exactly? Mislead us from what exactly?

From Carrot, pretty much.

Well in that case, why distract and mislead from Carrot then, in using up various panels of Yamato wanting to join which takes away time from giving the Carrot she should have gotten as a big priority in further developing a traveling member of the crew? Could we expect Yamato to appear more often since Carrot’s fate has been left unanswered and that Yamato will distract more by then?

[Shift]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Could we expect Yamato to appear more often since Carrot’s fate has been left unanswered and that Yamato will distract more by then?

Before I continue, would you clarify what you mean here?

[electricmastro]

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Could we expect Yamato to appear more often since Carrot’s fate has been left unanswered and that Yamato will distract more by then?

Before I continue, would you clarify what you mean here?

That when we see Carrot again, could her appearance be taken as a sign that Yamato may show up too?

[Deicide]

Some time after the timeskip (I think at Punk Hazard), I had this notion that we'd get two more sagas, and one new crewmate per saga.

Jinbe was the first saga's crewmate.

So far, the notion held very well.

The second saga's crewmate would be kind of an inversion of Jinbe, joining not at the end, but at the beginning of its saga, probably by the end of its first arc. If that's right as well, it doesn't mean the character will join right now, but we should start getting clues not long after the next arc begins.

The notion also included the idea that 11th crewmate, like Jinbe, was introduced pre-timeskip. I have my bet, but I guess some other theories like Smoker or Bonney would fit.

I never held the above as a real theory (something based on evidence), it was just something that I felt was right. Take that as you will.

[Shift]

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Could we expect Yamato to appear more often since Carrot’s fate has been left unanswered and that Yamato will distract more by then?

Before I continue, would you clarify what you mean here?

That when we see Carrot again, could her appearance be taken as a sign that Yamato may show up too?

Okay. Well, sorry to say I don't think so. It's like @fapfapfap said, Yamato was used to trick all of us and distract from Carrot. The trick is over now. If Carrot joins, it'll make the reason for the trick more clear. Yamato could appear again, but it won't have anything to do with Carrot by then.

Why trick us? Why take away from Carrot’s involvement, from her times to shine? I can't be sure, but Oda likes surprising us, getting in the big reveals. And Carrot will have chances to prove herself if she's joining. The crew is accomodating for that, they'll help and support her and she'll get her moments to shine. She lost her fight, she didn't get much to do. But she's still hungry for something, still has Pedro's will pushing her in the back to move onward.

Again, I don't blame anyone for being tricked. So was I up to nearly the end, and it was a weak way to settle it, but at least for the time being, it was still settled.

[electricmastro]

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Could we expect Yamato to appear more often since Carrot’s fate has been left unanswered and that Yamato will distract more by then?

Before I continue, would you clarify what you mean here?

That when we see Carrot again, could her appearance be taken as a sign that Yamato may show up too?

Why trick us? Why take away from Carrot’s involvement, from her times to shine? I can't be sure, but Oda likes surprising us, getting in the big reveals.

Heheheh, that’s funny. That’s really funny you happen to mention that, because I can just as easily claim the exact same thing with Carrot being the red herring, as well as things like the journal, Yamato’s screen time with Momo, and Yamato’s last minute decision to tour Wano as a red herring as well to keep people guessing even after Wano’s end, like how many people are doing right now.

And that Oda could just as easily pull a big surprise that helps us see Yamato in a clearer light that we didn’t about before like he has in the past with other characters, but alright, fair enough. I think that will be the last time I’ll bring up “Yamato vs. Carrot” for now, since I’ve grown to not be keen to talk about characters as if they have to be in constant competition, so I’ll just leave it there then and try to simply enjoy myself with how things develop in the manga from here. Thanks for the replies though.

[King Cannon]

@Shift Arguably, Carrot being made Zou's ruler was a surprise in itself.

It was as a sudden and inexplicable as Yamato deciding to stay. And made as much sense.

Surprise, bitches.

[Ivotas]

@King-Cannon
That's a very weird way of spelling cop out.

[King Cannon]

Copout defines the whole Wano post-arc.

Everything gets resolved in an unsatisfying, offscreen manner.

[Shift]

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift Arguably, Carrot being made Zou's ruler was a surprise in itself.

It was as a sudden and inexplicable as Yamato deciding to stay. And made as much sense.

Surprise, bitches.

It was a surprise, but it wasn't settled. She didn't say anything except Pedro's name. I don't think that's where Oda's leaving it.

[electricmastro]

@King-Cannon Actually, the fact that Luffy opened up his offer to Tama, Kinemon, and Momo along with Yamato in the same arc does make me wonder, since Luffy had more sentimentally connecting moments with those three than with Yamato.

[Hakase]

There is a lot of things that I feel I'd like to say I don't believe this is where Oda is leaving it but man just Wano kinda for now settled on well nah nothing coming out of this everyone that argued for the result of bad writing was actually right all along.

Like I definitely didn't think Carrot would just lie on the ground almost the entire raid but that's just where Oda actually left it.

I hope Oda picks up most of these loose ends up.

[danie]

I thought Carrot would become the next leader of the minks ever since they left Whole Cake Island and she went Sulong (the first mink to do so on panel), and I like it. It's the best thing Oda could have done with her. That isn't to say that he did a good job of building it up but the alternative would have been for her to stay as irrelevant as the rest of the minks that aren't Dogstorm and Catviper.

For the people hoping she distinguishes herself more from the other minks, I think the best you can hope for is that she refuses to go after Zunesha and instead goes ponegliff hunting, or something like that, with only a handful of minks, kinda like Pedro did.

[BobLoblaw]

New WCF set for Onigashima. Carrot's inclusion seems random, right?

[Galleon Panthera]

@BobLoblaw said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

New WCF set for Onigashima. Carrot's inclusion seems random, right?

As much I hate to say this....I wouldn't put too much faith into merch. See what happened with Yamato and the infamous towel story.

[Robby]

This post is deleted!

[King Cannon]

We'll probably never see Stealth Black ever again too.

Or young Momo. Not looking good actually.

[BobLoblaw]

Right, but for a character who was probably the second most off-paneled character behind Denjiro, putting her in this set (to be released in Jan) with major players does seem unusual when it could've gone to a more prominent character.

[King Cannon]

@BobLoblaw By January, I don't think young Momo will be prominent either, since he should become adult by then in the anime.

And I think O-Soba Mask made his last appearance just last year too.

So yeah, those character choices weren't made with the future in mind.

[pokebat7]

They are just collectable figures.
You'd want one for every character in an arc, as it would boost the value of collecting the figures.
Reading to into it would be a waste of time and effort.

[BobLoblaw]

@King-Cannon I get that. They already have one of her in that exact same outfit. Them doing a refresh for an unimportant character and then slapping them in a set like that seems odd.

spoiler

And in a vacuum, I agree. Her being in the set doesn't mean much, but she's also been in official merch (Jump Festa 2020) where she was pictured with the Straw Hats. And that's not even going into the unresolved nature of the character.

spoiler

[electricmastro]

@StrawHatJedi said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift

Yeah and expanding on this, we now know where Zunesha is headed, eventually back to Wano - and it's going there regardless of Carrot's leadership (or lack thereof). Momo is the one who calls the shots when it comes to Zunesha - when he calls, Zunesha comes back, but not before then.

Carrot is restricted to 'leading' the Minks, even though Shishilian is the muscle, and Wanda is still more or less telling her what to do. So, she's basically a figurehead in a sense.

And as you said, she completely lacks autonomy / agency, if 1056 was indeed her conclusion. She didn't even get to say yes, she didn't think back on Pedro' words and conclude that taking charge is what he would want from her.

She was told to do a job by Inu and Neko and they were the ones who said it was decided before she could even get a word in. They dismissed all of her protests and then used Pedro's name to guilt her into accepting... which she never actually did.

At any rate, I will say that Carrot knows that Zou had been largely damaged by Jack and his forces, so although it was kinda rushed how the conversation went I admit, I'd also have to figure Carrot would seriously consider accepting the offer to help Zou out any way she could, especially in case a dangerous enemy tries attacking it again while Neko and Inu try helping Momo in Wano, which is also at risk of getting attacked again.

[Hakase]

Carrot's inclusion in merch means jackshit like Yamato's inclusion on towels. Since we're giving kudos for terrible arguments and logic to people just being right on a 50/50 raise a glass to all the carrot won't join people for being "right" that she won't join cause of a boring fighting style and being useless .