Chapter 822: Descending the Elephant

[KageKageKing]

@Happycrab91:

Yeah this has got me thinking. Sex is a part of life. Most of us have sexual needs and urges. So I wonder if the Straw Hats are virgins or not, and if they have sex off-page/screen. Like at some of the parties the Straw Hats have after a win, most of the crew could've gotten lucky. I could imagine Zoro, Sanji or Nami getting drunk and hooking up with a random at Water 7. I'm not sure if any of the other parties really had that possibility. Orange town? Skypiea? I doubt any of them slept with fishmen or mermaids.

But then what about before meeting Luffy? I could imagine Robin feeling so lonely being on the run that she craved closeness and was insecure so she might've had lots of one night stands. But she would've also been paranoid that someone she slept with was doing it to turn her in. And she probably wouldn't use her powers since she was teased for it as a child. Franky is pretty old and had a decent amount of money and power so I bet he got frisky over the years. Sanji could have easily seduced many girls who came to the restaurant. Nami also had a lot of freedom when she was going around getting money. Bet she slept with some guys to con them. Usopp is probably saving himself for Kaya. Zoro would've had some gun when pirate hunting. Chopper is probably a virgin. Brook had plenty of time to meet some nice girls when he was a soldier and during his pirate adventures. And of course Luffy apparently doesn't have a sex drive.

I don't even…Are you serious?!
@sanji''s_dad:

zoro and the sword woman from smokers crew,.

No offense, but I think you should have the name Tashigi fixed on the OP database in your mind at this point.

[le crystal]

People who complain Nami and Robin being fanservice… they realise that both of them are arguably the most important members of the crew, do they?
Without Nami the ship will sink.
Without Robin they will never get to Raftel.

Most characters in OP run around showing their torsos anyway. Most of the well drawn guys have rock hard six pac abs which they like to show and yes it makes female readers happy. I don't see anyone going hur hur law zoro luffy smoker doffy and 50++ male characters are sexualised.
Does Oda draw lovingly detailed panty shots? Or twist the camera angle to let us have a bird's eye view of their boobs every chapter? Or have their clothes artfully ripped just from running?
Big boobs + curvy hips =/= mere fanservice.
In fact, I met more female readers who like ogling over Law and Zoro's muscles than male readers who ogle over female characters boobs and butts.

Yes yes they are being sidelined. But then again other crewmates have been sidelined too.
Sidelined = not much character development
It has been a problem since the timeskip, NOT just limited to the two of them.

*ends rant

[Miss White day]

@The:

This doesn't make any sense at all. How do you know Kaido is stronger than Big Mom? Where are you getting this from? And Enel was stronger than Lucci and Moria, and without the shadows Crocodile was imo stronger than Moria too. Heck without the Shadows Lucci would have been able to beat him as well.

Not only that but Luffy beating Kaido won't make him suddenly stronger than Kaido. For example, Luffy will defeat Kaido but will fight Akainu after. Since Yonkous are clearly stronger than Admirals, it wouldn't make sense with your logic. But in OP beating someone doesn't make you stronger than them so Luffy will struggle against Akainu too.

I don't know. With a title like "strongest creature alive" there's the possibility that he's at least stronger than Big Mom. I wasn't stating that as fact btw. There's always the possibility that Big Mom has a devil fruit that makes a direct battle against her tricky and raises the difficulty level in a fight against her.

[fuzi11]

@le:

People who complain Nami and Robin being fanservice… they realise that both of them are arguably the most important members of the crew, do they?
Without Nami the ship will sink.
Without Robin they will never get to Raftel.

Yes yes they are being sidelined. But then again other crewmates have been sidelined too.
Sidelined = not much character development
It has been a problem since the timeskip, NOT just limited to the two of them.

*ends rant

you can be important and still be entirely be a fanservice character.

[Razh]

@MetaMario:

Well to be fair, I'm trying to wrack my brain associating what we've seen to a "girly" concept. Saliva dripping, peering eyes, the motions of devouring…it sounds beastal, something really frightening (naturally I'm expecting the usual haki + durability)

I remember people guessing an Acid fruit, now that'd be something. Definitely agree that "turning things to sweets" would be kinda underwhelming.

You've clearly never tried to take girl's hands away from chocolate. :ninja:

But seriously, the candy fruit would explain a lot. Take that Whole Cake island. How does something like that even start to exist naturally? BM candyforming it with her devil fruit would explain a lot, though. And then there's that talking ship.

Don't see how the ability to turn stuff into candy would translate into a scary fighting ability but I doubt it's above Oda's creative ability.

[Fraco]

@Happycrab91:

Brook had plenty of time to meet some nice girls when he was a soldier and during his pirate adventures.

Now he can only have a boner

[Kdom]

@Miss:

The more I read this the more I'm starting to think Big Mom might end up as the unfought among the yonkou. Sure Luffy did promise to beat her up but if Kaido is stronger than Big Mom and Luffy beats Kaido before Big Mom then it won't make sense to go against an opponent that is yeaker than the one from a previous story arc.
I guess I'll have to wait until the Wedding Crashing arc actually starts before I'm sure of what to think.

If the Lola's Mum theory is true it is probably what will happen. The fact that Nami who has her Vivre Card is going gives this possibility some strength.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@le:

People who complain Nami and Robin being fanservice… they realise that both of them are arguably the most important members of the crew, do they?
Without Nami the ship will sink.
Without Robin they will never get to Raftel.

If they are that important, we shall be reminded that they are regularly and not once in a blue moon.

[Razh]

If this were a manga where the protagonist was a navigatior and/or archeologist who can't fight and finding sea routes or deciphering dead languages was the main focus of the adventure, fighters would be the supportive characters. Then we'd be able to say stuff like "Luffina wouldn't get far without Namu and Robert keeping her alive".

In OP, every crewmember has their area of expertise AND knows how to fight. So it's a little unfair to say something like "they're actually really important even though they don't fight anyone that matters any more".

[Yobiyopi]

Will Nami's new weapon allow her to have a proper fight or will she just use it to vanish after stealing stuff?

[Kfunk]

I just hope to see Nami ride the Kinto'un for now, make it happen Oda :ninja:

[Brotato]

@le:

Most characters in OP run around showing their torsos anyway. Most of the well drawn guys have rock hard six pac abs which they like to show and yes it makes female readers happy. I don't see anyone going hur hur law zoro luffy smoker doffy and 50++ male characters are sexualised.
Does Oda draw lovingly detailed panty shots? Or twist the camera angle to let us have a bird's eye view of their boobs every chapter? Or have their clothes artfully ripped just from running?
Big boobs + curvy hips =/= mere fanservice.
In fact, I met more female readers who like ogling over Law and Zoro's muscles than male readers who ogle over female characters boobs and butts.

You bring up some good points that I feel are too often overlooked by the ones crying fanservice at every turn. Nice rant!

@Razh:

Don't see how the ability to turn stuff into candy would translate into a scary fighting ability but I doubt it's above Oda's creative ability.

Toriyama managed, I'm sure Oda will be fine.

[hosemisnuba]

@Happycrab91:

Yeah this has got me thinking. Sex is a part of life. Most of us have sexual needs and urges. So I wonder if the Straw Hats are virgins or not, and if they have sex off-page/screen. Like at some of the parties the Straw Hats have after a win, most of the crew could've gotten lucky. I could imagine Zoro, Sanji or Nami getting drunk and hooking up with a random at Water 7. I'm not sure if any of the other parties really had that possibility. Orange town? Skypiea? I doubt any of them slept with fishmen or mermaids.

But then what about before meeting Luffy? I could imagine Robin feeling so lonely being on the run that she craved closeness and was insecure so she might've had lots of one night stands. But she would've also been paranoid that someone she slept with was doing it to turn her in. And she probably wouldn't use her powers since she was teased for it as a child. Franky is pretty old and had a decent amount of money and power so I bet he got frisky over the years. Sanji could have easily seduced many girls who came to the restaurant. Nami also had a lot of freedom when she was going around getting money. Bet she slept with some guys to con them. Usopp is probably saving himself for Kaya. Zoro would've had some gun when pirate hunting. Chopper is probably a virgin. Brook had plenty of time to meet some nice girls when he was a soldier and during his pirate adventures. And of course Luffy apparently doesn't have a sex drive.

But no, Sanji is so not gonna have a wife on the ship.

This is fucking hysterical. Ten out of ten. Five stars. Would read again.

On a more serious note

• Luffy: Nope and probably never. Unless Oda wants to contradict the fact he was oblivious to Hancock.
• Zoro: Probably
• Sanji: I want to say yes, but some of his behavior says otherwise
• Usopp: Maybe
• Nami: Certainly
• Chopper: Nope
• Robin: Pretty sure
• Franky: Before he joined the Strawhats
• Brooke: Before he became a pirate

And I highly doubt there has ever been any action between any of the Strawhats. That would be, well, against everything Oda has said regarding the subject.

[Razh]

@Happycrab91:

Yeah this has got me thinking. Sex is a part of life. Most of us have sexual needs and urges. So I wonder if the Straw Hats are virgins or not, and if they have sex off-page/screen. Like at some of the parties the Straw Hats have after a win, most of the crew could've gotten lucky. I could imagine Zoro, Sanji or Nami getting drunk and hooking up with a random at Water 7. I'm not sure if any of the other parties really had that possibility. Orange town? Skypiea? I doubt any of them slept with fishmen or mermaids.

But then what about before meeting Luffy? I could imagine Robin feeling so lonely being on the run that she craved closeness and was insecure so she might've had lots of one night stands. But she would've also been paranoid that someone she slept with was doing it to turn her in. And she probably wouldn't use her powers since she was teased for it as a child. Franky is pretty old and had a decent amount of money and power so I bet he got frisky over the years. Sanji could have easily seduced many girls who came to the restaurant. Nami also had a lot of freedom when she was going around getting money. Bet she slept with some guys to con them. Usopp is probably saving himself for Kaya. Zoro would've had some gun when pirate hunting. Chopper is probably a virgin. Brook had plenty of time to meet some nice girls when he was a soldier and during his pirate adventures. And of course Luffy apparently doesn't have a sex drive.

But no, Sanji is so not gonna have a wife on the ship.

Would have been a tragedy for her not to use her powers in the sack.

On the off note, glad her ability didn't go to a dude during the creation process.

[le crystal]

@Brotato:

You bring up some good points that I feel are too often overlooked by the ones crying fanservice at every turn. Nice rant!

Thanks for your kind words sir. I just get annoyed when Nami and Robin get called 'mere fanservice characters' just because they have big boobs and butts, plus wear clothes that have the amount of surface area that how 65% of one piece character population dress.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Kdom:

If they are that important, we shall be reminded that they are regularly and not once in a blue moon.

The Zou arc did remind us quite nicely.

[mbaruh]

@Razh:

Take that Whole Cake island. How does something like that even start to exist naturally

Exactly, this is the kind of thoughts people should have about stuff in the New World. I hope it did form naturally, and that BM only found it. It's been a (long) while since we went to a "wtf" location, even though Oda introduced the NW with several of those (the islands the supernovas got to before the TS). Zou was pretty shocking, but no one really questioned how it's even possible.

[Miss White day]

I for one am part of the less vocal minority of girls who honestly would prefer if Zoro kept his shirt from start to end of an arc and stop looking like Smoker. I'd like to put some pants on Franky too but I think it's against a law or something. My only big beef about the girls of the strawhat crew is that I am totally not a fan of the "squeezed toothpaste tube" style of curvy women Oda draws. I hate to admit it but I think Mashima draws curvy women better eventhough their boobs look like buttcheeks. Oh and Nami's outfit changes aren't that pretty sometimes. It's just a different bikini top with the usual pants or a variation of that. I dunno, I just find it such a minimal change a shame but I guess it could be worse. At least have Robin to look at which is a good thing.

[HeartOfDarkness]

@Kdom:

That’s your opinion but I think you are in the minority given all the off topic power level discussions that pop up regularly. Also especially when we just enter a suppose yonkou arc, saying One Piece doesn’t need good fights is really ununderstandable.

What does fan discussion have anything to do with the actual product? Fights in OP serve the characters, and the world not the other way around.

Because yonkou arc is about just fighting and not the overall shift the OP world will have? Also we just had one of the best fights in the series, Doffy vs Luffy.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@uniaka:

One piece is not about fighting? then why don't you ask Luffy:

http://i.imgur.com/5XyMD5P.jpg

When you guys say one piece is not about fights, you remind me of Usopp when he tells Luffy he can just sneak in to steal copy of the poneglyphs from the yonkous, no need to fight them.

Yea why don't you? Considering that Luffy's character can be seen as embodiment of the series, and what does Luffy spend majority of the time doing? Goofing around, eating, and seeking adventure and occasionally fights people when he really has to.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Razh:

If this were a manga where the protagonist was a navigatior and/or archeologist who can't fight and finding sea routes or deciphering dead languages was the main focus of the adventure, fighters would be the supportive characters. Then we'd be able to say stuff like "Luffina wouldn't get far without Namu and Robert keeping her alive".

In OP, every crewmember has their area of expertise AND knows how to fight. So it's a little unfair to say something like "they're actually really important even though they don't fight anyone that matters any more".

They know how to fight, doesn't mean they should get one on one fights every single arc. Outside of monster trio, all the other strawhats are supporting fighters, and ONLY fight when they have to.

I find it baffling whenever someone tries to claim that how many fights the character is in = their overall importance and not their role in the story.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Yea why don't you? Considering that Luffy's character can be seen as embodiment of the series, and what does Luffy spend majority of the time doing? Goofing around, eating, and seeking adventure and occasionally fights people when he really has to.

.

Luffy likes to fight, as how I pointed out to you in that pic. And he doesn't just ''occasionally'' fight. It's not like one arc he fights and the second arc the talks things out with the villain lol, every arc he gets to fight and that's how you take villain down. And he is not even limited to the main villain, he takes underlings and non villlain too in the same time. Only in Dressrosa he had fight with many guys, pica, gladiators, chinjao, bellamy, clones, fujitora and doflamingo in the end. Even in Zou that is a very short, story arc, he still got to butt heads with the minks at the start.

[RamistaR]

Luffy likes competition. He isn't particularly into fighting like Zoro.
He took on Foxy because the Davy Back Fight sounded fun. He didn't know that the third game would be fight.

Every other fight in the series is a fight to protect someone or something. Luffy never fought for his own pleasure.

[Razh]

@HeartOfDarkness:

They know how to fight, doesn't mean they should get one on one fights every single arc. Outside of monster trio, all the other strawhats are supporting fighters, and ONLY fight when they have to.

I find it baffling whenever someone tries to claim that how many fights the character is in = their overall importance and not their role in the story.

I find it baffling that people still try to communicate by exaggerating like that. Nowhere have I said that FemHats have to get one on one fights every arc. Nor have I said that fight statistics determine the importance of characters. Also, every single arc? Robin's last real one on one fight was on Skypiea. Nami's on Enies Lobby. How many arcs in between? I don't count NFP steamrolling as serious fights.

Most of the problems in this manga are solved by fighting. Every SH has a unique fighting style. Their opponents want to fight them, not engage into debates. Robin was an assassin. Usopp didn't make Nami an awesome telescope, or a special equipment to draw maps easier, he made her a weapon.

[HeartOfDarkness]

@Razh:

I find it baffling that people still try to communicate by exaggerating like that. Nowhere have I said that FemHats have to get one on one fights every arc. Nor have I said that fight statistics determine the importance of characters. Also, every single arc? Robin's last real one on one fight was on Skypiea. Nami's on Enies Lobby. How many arcs in between? I don't count NFP steamrolling as serious fights.

Most of the problems in this manga are solved by fighting. Every SH has a unique fighting style. Their opponents want to fight them, not engage into debates. Robin was an assassin. Usopp didn't make Nami an awesome telescope, or a special equipment to draw maps easier, he made her a weapon.

Sanji's dialogue, "I'll do everything you cannot and you do everything i cannot" basically boils down to "you fight and i fight" to you, doesn't it?

I mean you are acknowledging that every strawhat is unique in their own yet also somehow want all of them to fight which disregards that the strawhats have other areas in which they excels compare to fights.

And yes believe it or not, but Nami and Robin aren't fighters in any way. They have only fought when it's extremely necessary.

Really you should try understanding the character, and their place and role in the story instead of yelling "Oda give Nami and Robin fights even though it makes no sense thematically, just give them fights!".
–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@uniaka:

Luffy likes to fight, as how I pointed out to you in that pic. And he doesn't just ''occasionally'' fight. It's not like one arc he fights and the second arc the talks things out with the villain lol, every arc he gets to fight and that's how you take villain down. And he is not even limited to the main villain, he takes underlings and non villlain too in the same time. Only in Dressrosa he had fight with many guys, pica, gladiators, chinjao, bellamy, clones, fujitora and doflamingo in the end. Even in Zou that is a very short, story arc, he still got to butt heads with the minks at the start.

He fights someone in every arc, yes but he doesn't go to island for the sake of fighting nor his overall goal is related to fighting. Look at what he said to Usopp back in Sabondy when Usopp was about to ask Ray whether One Piece exist or not.

Claiming that he loves fighting because he fights someone every arc despite the story were clearly putting out how he only fights when he really has to, and it's never his ultimate goal, is clearly missing the point of his character.

[Kdom]

@HeartOfDarkness:

What does fan discussion have anything to do with the actual product? Fights in OP serve the characters, and the world not the other way around.

Because yonkou arc is about just fighting and not the overall shift the OP world will have? Also we just had one of the best fights in the series, Doffy vs Luffy.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Yea why don't you? Considering that Luffy's character can be seen as embodiment of the series, and what does Luffy spend majority of the time doing? Goofing around, eating, and seeking adventure and occasionally fights people when he really has to.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

They know how to fight, doesn't mean they should get one on one fights every single arc. Outside of monster trio, all the other strawhats are supporting fighters, and ONLY fight when they have to.

I find it baffling whenever someone tries to claim that how many fights the character is in = their overall importance and not their role in the story.

If it wasn't so long, I think it would be interesting to compare the pages dedicated to fights and the pages dedicated to adventure… The fights takes a big part in One Piece even if your opinion is that they are not important. Bug again, this is an as much redundant discussion than the power levels or the sexism in the serie. And for me, Doflaming vs Luffy was not that great

[Razh]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Sanji's dialogue, "I'll do everything you cannot and you do everything i cannot" basically boils down to "you fight and i fight" to you, doesn't it?

I mean you are acknowledging that every strawhat is unique in their own yet also somehow want all of them to fight which disregards that the strawhats have other areas in which they excels compare to fights.

And yes believe it or not, but Nami and Robin aren't fighters in any way. They have only fought when it's extremely necessary.

Really you should try understanding the character, and their place and role in the story instead of yelling "Oda give Nami and Robin fights even though it makes no sense thematically, just give them fights!".

Can you just talk normally without assuming crap? It's getting tiresome.

I don't really want Robin and Nami fighting all the time. But I get why people are bothered by lack of their contribution to action scenes.

Why doesn't it make sense thematically for Robin and Nami to fight in a Shonen featuring a pirate crew where everyone has devised a way to fight using their gifts or expertise?

[HeartOfDarkness]

@Kdom:

If it wasn't so long, I think it would be interesting to compare the pages dedicated to fights and the pages dedicated to adventure… The fights takes a big part in One Piece even if your opinion is that they are not important.

So are you telling me that you can't somehow understand the basic focal point of the series? With Oda mentioning that he never wrote One Piece with the intention of making it a purely battle manga? With the series constantly putting emphasis on adventure? Enies Lobby arc is the only arc that truly went with "FIGHTING IS EVERYTHING" but Oda hasn't tried that since that arc.

And Just to give you an example Marineford war didn't have any one on one fights despite being very big in scale. Just like how Yonkou arc will most likely be.

And for me, Doflaming vs Luffy was not that great[/qoute]

That's cool, i guess. Doffy vs Luffy is still one of the best fights and is up there with Crocodile fight.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Razh:

Can you just talk normally without assuming crap? It's getting tiresome.

I don't really want Robin and Nami fighting all the time. But I get why people are bothered by lack of their contribution to action scenes.

Why doesn't it make sense thematically for Robin and Nami to fight in a Shonen featuring a pirate crew where everyone has devised a way to fight using their gifts or expertise?

Because that's never been the point of their character? Because Nami herself is pretty non-combatant and prefers not to fight? Because Robin, despite having ability, has never been shown to care about fighting, and only did so when it was for something else? I don't think it's hard to understand why both Nami and Robin don't get lot of fighting.

But by all means point out the obvious important plot-reasons why they should fight and why it just isn't fan-fictions of people that fail to understand the characterization of these characters.

This argument really reminds me of people who were whining about Rebecca not fighting despite thematically she was in character, and was only taught to defend herself, and it wouldn't make much sense in her fighting when it goes against something that was already established chapters before.

[Razh]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Because that's never been the point of their character? Because Nami herself is pretty non-combatant and prefers not to fight? Because Robin, despite having ability, has never been shown to care about fighting, and only did so when it was for something else? I don't think it's hard to understand why both Nami and Robin don't get lot of fighting.

But by all means point out the obvious important plot-reasons why they should fight and why it just isn't fan-fictions of people that fail to understand the characterization of these characters.

This argument really reminds me of people who were whining about Rebecca not fighting despite thematically she was in character, and was only taught to defend herself, and it wouldn't make much sense in her fighting when it goes against something that was already established chapters before.

Robin, who brutalized Yama for destroying old buildings and who wanted to talk it out with Aokiji first (reminder: never happened) before deciding to break his spine, and Nami who practically begged others to let her electrocute Buffalo and Baby 5 while they were running away and asked Usopp to make her a better weapon.

They didn't really look sad or reluctant in their recent fights.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Sanji's dialogue, "I'll do everything you cannot and you do everything i cannot" basically boils down to "you fight and i fight" to you, doesn't it?

I mean you are acknowledging that every strawhat is unique in their own yet also somehow want all of them to fight which disregards that the strawhats have other areas in which they excels compare to fights.

And yes believe it or not, but Nami and Robin aren't fighters in any way. They have only fought when it's extremely necessary.

Really you should try understanding the character, and their place and role in the story instead of yelling "Oda give Nami and Robin fights even though it makes no sense thematically, just give them fights!".
–- Update From New Post Merge ---

He fights someone in every arc, yes but he doesn't go to island for the sake of fighting nor his overall goal is related to fighting. Look at what he said to Usopp back in Sabondy when Usopp was about to ask Ray whether One Piece exist or not.

Claiming that he loves fighting because he fights someone every arc despite the story were clearly putting out how he only fights when he really has to, and it's never his ultimate goal, is clearly missing the point of his character.

Luffy likes to fight as in he likes to fight for the joy of fighting, or the romance of it. He didnt fight bellamy because he didnt have anything to prove to him by fighting. Look at luffy curbstomping and he isnt serious like I wish violence wasnt the only answer, he's usually wheeling and dealing like in the colliseum.

When they met burgess on mocktown

" This apparently unknown fighting champion had claimed another victim and is boasting his victory from atop a roof. Hearing that he is a fighting champion, Luffy and Zoro are tempted into fighting "

[ARTEMlS]

@Razh:

Usopp didn't make Nami an awesome telescope, or a special equipment to draw maps easier,

The clima tact was made for entertainment on parties, though. :happy:

[HeartOfDarkness]

@Razh:

Robin, who brutalized Yama for destroying old buildings and who wanted to talk it out with Aokiji first (reminder: never happened) before deciding to break his spine, and Nami who practically begged others to let her electrocute Buffalo and Baby 5 while they were running away and asked Usopp to make her a better weapon.

They didn't really look sad or reluctant in their recent fights.

Robin fought Yama because he destroyed a piece of history…... So basically she didn't fight him for her personal amusement, rather it was for something else. And she broke Aokiji's spine because she didn't want him to reveal her secret and capture her. So that's two examples that you listed which proves my point of her fighting for something else and not her own amusement.

Ah Nami electrocute them because the group needed to capture them, and Nami's ability seemed prefect for that situation. Again both of them fought because there was a reason for it, something your argument ironically doesn't have, and not something they went in and planned to do from the beginning.

As for the new weapon..... Does that somehow says that she is absolutely ready, and even seeking to fight someone? The weapon could be you know when she really needs it? To defend herself? Or full-blown fighting is the only thing exist in your mind?

Anyway this should wrap up the argument since you already established you don't have any real thematic, and in-story reason for why they should fight, and i am not really interested in discussing fan-fictions.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Long:

Luffy likes to fight as in he likes to fight for the joy of fighting, or the romance of it. He didnt fight bellamy because he didnt have anything to prove to him by fighting. Look at luffy curbstomping and he isnt serious like I wish violence wasnt the only answer, he's usually wheeling and dealing like in the colliseum.

When they met burgess on mocktown

" This apparently unknown fighting champion had claimed another victim and is boasting his victory from atop a roof. Hearing that he is a fighting champion, Luffy and Zoro are tempted into fighting "

Luffy didn't fight Bellamy because there wasn't a reason for it, proving that he only fights when he has a reason, and not something he just do.

[kyrbrain]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Because that's never been the point of their character? Because Nami herself is pretty non-combatant and prefers not to fight? Because Robin, despite having ability, has never been shown to care about fighting, and only did so when it was for something else? I don't think it's hard to understand why both Nami and Robin don't get lot of fighting.

But by all means point out the obvious important plot-reasons why they should fight and why it just isn't fan-fictions of people that fail to understand the characterization of these characters.

This argument really reminds me of people who were whining about Rebecca not fighting despite thematically she was in character, and was only taught to defend herself, and it wouldn't make much sense in her fighting when it goes against something that was already established chapters before.

So why do you single them out from the rest of the crew.Because theyre female? I dont see how they are different from the guys aside from luffy and zoro nobody really likes fighting but they do anyways because they have to. They are not like Rebecca where it was key part of her character to not fight

[HeartOfDarkness]

@kyrbrain:

So why do you single them out from the rest of the crew.Because theyre female? I dont see how they are different from the guys aside from luffy and zoro nobody really likes fighting but they do anyways because they have to. They are not like Rebecca where it was key part of her character to not fight

Because i totally stated that they can't fight since they are females, right? Also read the posts first. The entire argument was particularly about Nami and Robin and not the other crewmates.

[Razh]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Robin fought Yama because he destroyed a piece of history…... So basically she didn't fight him for her personal amusement, rather it was for something else. And she broke Aokiji's spine because she didn't want him to reveal her secret and capture her. So that's two examples that you listed which proves my point of her fighting for something else and not her own amusement.

So characters can't fight unless they really love it. Those are some lame justifications for a person going a little overboard. Didn't Robin look like she was enjoying toying with Pell? Isn't she an assassin?

Ah Nami electrocute them because the group needed to capture them, and Nami's ability seemed prefect for that situation. Again both of them fought because there was a reason for it, something your argument ironically doesn't have, and not something they went in and planned to do from the beginning.

That's not an accurate description of the situation. Law was about to stop them himself. Nami wanted to show off.

!

Yeah, that look is surely the look of a person who is forced to fight.

As for the new weapon….. Does that somehow says that she is absolutely ready, and even seeking to fight someone? The weapon could be you know when she really needs it? To defend herself? Or full-blown fighting is the only thing exist in your mind?

What was wrong with her old weapon? And why can't she protect herself more often? What the fuck are we arguing about?

Anyway this should wrap up the argument since you already established you don't have any real thematic, and in-story reason for why they should fight, and i am not really interested in discussing fan-fictions.

I feel you bro.

[Kdom]

@HeartOfDarkness:

So are you telling me that you can't somehow understand the basic focal point of the series? With Oda mentioning that he never wrote One Piece with the intention of making it a purely battle manga? With the series constantly putting emphasis on adventure? Enies Lobby arc is the only arc that truly went with "FIGHTING IS EVERYTHING" but Oda hasn't tried that since that arc.

And Just to give you an example Marineford war didn't have any one on one fights despite being very big in scale. Just like how Yonkou arc will most likely be.

Even if it is not purely a battle serie, it is still one partially. And battle is as important as adventure in One Piece. That will always be my point of view on the subject.

[HeartOfDarkness]

Better to stop the argument right here then.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Kdom:

Even if it is not purely a battle serie, it is still one partially. And battle is as important as adventure in One Piece. That will always be my point of view on the subject.

"Hey guys look Berserk has Puck being funny in few scenes despite it being an extremely dark fantasy series. That must mean the humor is suddenly the series focal point. Remember multiple elements in a series cannot exist without it being the focal point."

Yea…...... no that logic is extremely flawed. I don't know if you know this or not but a series can have multiple elements such as comedy, adventure, fighting, fantasy, serious.. etc..... and it can still have one or two elements that stand out, and ultimately be the focal point of that series.

One Piece fighting is similar to that of Berserk. It's there as a plot device for characters to solve conflicts and what not rather than it being important for the world.

A purely fighting manga would be something like Dragon Ball.

[Yobiyopi]

Will Franky's last (or most important) fight in the series be against a ship? Instead of having "just" a brawl with either his fists or with General Franky against another humanoid, i would like seeing him take on an entire ship by himself. It would come full circle after he went against the sea train as a kid, and it would make for a very unique and exciting fight hopefully. As for which ship it would be, maybe Pluton, even if that would require an incredible amount of help to take it down supposedly, or maybe against Blackbeard's ship whatever it may be now.

[BellisarioFaith]

Weekly Mangastream/VIZ Comparisons:

• Mangastream made it sound like Kin'emon didn't know what Transponder Snails are (since he said "I have heard tales that, outside Wano, you use snails to communicate"), which didn't make sense seeing as he's seen and used them before (such as in Dressrosa). However, in VIZ, he just says "I know that foreign lands have those mollusks," so he's really just acknowledging that others use them and clearly does know what they are.
• The "worst savior ever" line from Pekoms was pretty funny, but VIZ uses "Of all the guys to owe my life to, it had to be you!"
• An interesting one: Usopp says in Mangastream that he managed to "put almost all of [the Weatherian devices] in there, save for one. The magic wand you told me about on Sabaody…I couldn't really wrap my head around it", and Nami's flashback bubble said "It's a magic wand!" This made it sound like she gave him a wand that he couldn't figure out how to include. VIZ phrases it: "I implemented all of the Weatheria devices that you gave to me. The only thing is, I don't know what you meant on Sabaody when you said you wanted a magic wand, so that'll…depend on you?" (The "depend on you" part is in his speech bubble in the next panel, instead of "What have I unleashed?"), and Nami says "Just like a magic wand", so I think she was really saying that there was something else she wanted the Clima-Tact to be able to do, rather than another device she wanted Usopp to include.
• Pekoms just calls him "Pedro" rather than "brother Pedro" in VIZ, and Pedro states he's coming as someone who's "known [Pekoms] for years" (in place of "familiar with [his] tendencies").
• Zoro's line is "I'll have some of the samurai following my lead in no time!" So yeah, typical Zoro.

[RamistaR]

@BellisarioFaith:

• Pekoms just calls him "Pedro" rather than "brother Pedro" in VIZ, and Pedro states he's coming as someone who's "known [Pekoms] for years" (in place of "familiar with [his] tendencies")

In the raw Pekoms says "Pedro no aniki".
Mind you "aniki" can be used outside of the family context. See Yosaku and Johnny.

[RomanceDawn]

The magic wand thing is the biggest thing to me. We would have been waiting for Nami to whip out her mysterious trump card until the end of time. She basically wants a weapon that can be used like a magic wand. Which it basically has been since its inception.

[BellisarioFaith]

@RamistaR:

In the raw Pekoms says "Pedro no aniki".
Mind you "aniki" can be used outside of the family context. See Yosaku and Johnny.

Oh, really? Guess that's VIZ's bad, then. I'm guessing by the way both versions were phrased that they're probably not real brothers, though. Maybe childhood friends?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RomanceDawn:

The magic wand thing is the biggest thing to me. We would have been waiting for Nami to whip out her mysterious trump card until the end of time. She basically wants a weapon that can be used like a magic wand. Which it basically has been since its inception.

You're right, that's something I was expecting to be a Chekhov's gun later. Glad VIZ cleared that up.

[Monkey King]

@uniaka:

Luffy likes to fight, as how I pointed out to you in that pic. And he doesn't just ''occasionally'' fight. It's not like one arc he fights and the second arc the talks things out with the villain lol, every arc he gets to fight and that's how you take villain down. And he is not even limited to the main villain, he takes underlings and non villlain too in the same time. Only in Dressrosa he had fight with many guys, pica, gladiators, chinjao, bellamy, clones, fujitora and doflamingo in the end. Even in Zou that is a very short, story arc, he still got to butt heads with the minks at the start.

Does Luffy ever talking about how much he loves to fight? How much he loves fighting?
I honestly don't think he ever has even once.
He'll get excited about taking down someone he thinks is an asshole, but he's more interested in giving a bad person their comeuppance. Not the fight so much itself.

What Luffy constantly expresses love for, what really drives him, is adventure. And adventure is what One Piece is first and foremost about.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Kdom:

If it wasn't so long, I think it would be interesting to compare the pages dedicated to fights and the pages dedicated to adventure…

None of those fights would even be happening without being nested in adventure plots.

[HacheBe]

@kyrbrain:

So why do you single them out from the rest of the crew.Because theyre female? I dont see how they are different from the guys aside from luffy and zoro nobody really likes fighting but they do anyways because they have to. They are not like Rebecca where it was key part of her character to not fight

I agree with this. It also goes back to the sexualizing of females in One Piece when really it is just everyone in the series is sexualized. I don't think any of the SH will fight for no reason besides maybe Zoro to test his strength.

It just so happens that Nami and Robin's fighting styles are better used against a group of people and not 1v1 fights. Really the only way to stop Robin's fruit is to just be straight up stronger than her because it really is just that good. 1v1 would be quick and boring with Robin in my opinion and that is why I think that Oda has been avoiding putting her into a 1v1 fight I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that she is Female. Nami is one of those ppl who is scared and will do anything to get out of fighting like throwing someone in front of her or tricking her opponent. The only times she has ever had a fight was either when she was sought out or there was no time and she had to.

I think it is just not part of their characters to 1v1 fight. I think given the universe that they are in it seems kinda stupid but hey from a character point of view it makes perfect sense

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Monkey:

What Luffy constantly expresses love for, what really drives him, is adventure. And adventure is what One Piece is first and foremost about.

I agree 100% but there is one problem…. He does constantly express love for meat

[Bond en Avant]

@BellisarioFaith:

Oh, really? Guess that's VIZ's bad, then. I'm guessing by the way both versions were phrased that they're probably not real brothers, though. Maybe childhood friends?

I wouldn't say it's Viz's bad. They probably decided against calling him brother because that term has different connotations to western audiences. We'd get people saying Pekoms and Pedro were biologically related when really, it looks like they were just close comrades at some point.
Viz has used 'brother' as a translation for 'aniki' before, back when Johnny and Yosaku first appeared. But the translation probably wasn't as scrutinised back then as it is now.

[RomanceDawn]

There was one time where Luffy uncharacteristically was itching to fight and that was when he was influenced by a ton shadows from random warriors that were stuffed into his body.

Fights are fun in One Piece but this very arc we just finished shows how it isn't the focus or something to be expected as a driving force to this story. Though u guess if you are new to the One Piece(not saying anyone here is) the actual fighting is probably what drew you in in the first place/

[desa]

@RomanceDawn:

There was one time where Luffy uncharacteristically was itching to fight and that was when he was influenced by a ton shadows from random warriors that were stuffed into his body.

Fights are fun in One Piece but this very arc we just finished shows how it isn't the focus or something to be expected as a driving force to this story. Though u guess if you are new to the One Piece(not saying anyone here is) the actual fighting is probably what drew you in in the first place/

But the first part is mostly comedy. I remember starting because I was bored and picked the most popular manga in one manga. Then I continue because it was fine to pass the time and had a silly fun vibe. I have a hard picturing people getting on it for fights(MF is still my most hated arc).

However, I think it is avoiding Oda flaws to say Nami and Robin don't get fights because it goes against their characterizations.

[HeartOfDarkness]

@desa:

But the first part is mostly comedy. I remember starting because I was bored and picked the most popular manga in one manga. Then I continue because it was fine to pass the time and had a silly fun vibe. I have a hard picturing people getting on it for fights(MF is still my most hated arc).

However, I think it is avoiding Oda flaws to say Nami and Robin don't get fights because it goes against their characterizations.

So it's Oda's flaw for not giving 1on1 fights to characters that never have been combatant and only do so when it's needed? Sorry but while Oda does struggle with writing female characters, it really isn't because of fights in any way, unless fight = good female character to you.

[Bond en Avant]

@HeartOfDarkness:

So it's Oda's flaw for not giving 1on1 fights to characters that never have been combatant and only do so when it's needed? Sorry but while Oda does struggle with writing female characters, it really isn't because of fights in any way, unless fight = good female character to you.

I don't think it's so much that fights equal good character so much as it is fights mean equality for female crew members.
You can argue that the navigator and archaeologist aren't particularly combat oriented roles but neither are the doctor nor the musician (and especially not the chef, but he's part of the Monster Trio so he might get a pass).
It's really glaring when every one of the Strawhats, regardless of role, have had a one on one fight on Fishman Island, except for the two female characters.
Another thing is how the fights actually can and have been used to show growth of character. While it's not always the case (Fishman Island in particular is just the Strawhats roflstomping everyone, though Brook did get a slightly memorable line out of that), it happens with enough regularity that it can't be ignored. Refer to Nami vs Miss Doublefinger, Usopp and Chopper vs Mr. 4 and Miss Merry Christmas, Robin vs Yama and so on.

I'm pretty hopeful that Oda is at least somewhat conscious of this and was only delaying Nami's moment to shine because her weapon hadn't been upgraded yet. I'm expecting the stealth mission to fail and Nami, Chopper, and Brook will finally get some much needed 'fighting' character development.

[HacheBe]

@HeartOfDarkness:

So it's Oda's flaw for not giving 1on1 fights to characters that never have been combatant and only do so when it's needed? Sorry but while Oda does struggle with writing female characters, it really isn't because of fights in any way, unless fight = good female character to you.

I don't think that is what people are saying exactly but more of I want to see a female character that is more inclined to fight or have a badass moment and as Nami and Robin are on the crew they just comes up more. That doesn't necessarily mean that a fighting female is the only way for them to be good its just we haven't seen very many females who have those tendencies and it would be refreshing to see more of it regardless if it was either Nami or Robin or some other future character.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@HeartOfDarkness:

So it's Oda's flaw for not giving 1on1 fights to characters that never have been combatant and only do so when it's needed? Sorry but while Oda does struggle with writing female characters, it really isn't because of fights in any way, unless fight = good female character to you.

Oda in general has been far more conservative with women and gender roles lately, he's rarely gives purely physical fighting styles to women anymore and now the strawhat big 3 are essentially serving under sanji like oaths to never hurt a woman, because they're weak and need to be protected. Etc…

Thats why it's kind of frusturatin, yeah one piece is more adventure than plain fohts but a lot of fans like the fights because their usually well done and characters come out looking bad ass and for a long time we havent seen any badass moments from nami or robin from a fiht or hell even a skirmish like sani did vs vergo. I know its for boys but It seems like oda has this thing we're he'd like to avoid any fighting for women unless it paints how bad the villain is ( hody/vergo/doffy ) although viola had her moment which was very cool.

[HeartOfDarkness]

Yes i understand the trend "Nami and Robin or any female SHOULD get some kind of fight (because even though it serves no purpose, we must absolutely shove in pointless fights because FEMALE RIGHTS or whatever is the latest trend)". What i am trying to understand is why that is important for the story. Really there seems to be no real reason for wanting that except just for the sake of it and just fulfilling someone's fan-fiction.

[RomanceDawn]

@Long:

Oda in general has been far more conservative with women and gender roles lately, he's rarely gives purely physical fighting styles to women anymore and now the strawhat big 3 are essentially serving under sanji like oaths to never hurt a woman, because they're weak and need to be protected. Etc…

Thats why it's kind of frusturatin, yeah one piece is more adventure than plain fohts but a lot of fans like the fights because their usually well done and characters come out looking bad ass and for a long time we havent seen any badass moments from nami or robin from a fiht or hell even a skirmish like sani did vs vergo. I know its for boys but It seems like oda has this thing we're he'd like to avoid any fighting for women unless it paints how bad the villain is ( hody/vergo/doffy ) although viola had her moment which was very cool.

Nami and Robin fight quite often. What you are asking for is a 1vs1 against a named character thats only for them. Cleaning up fodder may not be the most glamorous thing but it's still fighting. Both Nami and Robin take shots at big named enemies and come out looking good. It's not as if they sit around twiddling their thumbs every time something goes down.

Nami attacked and/or fought the fake Straw Hats, Fishman Island soldiers, New Fishmen Pirates, got a good hit in on Monet, shoots down the little dragon which was apparently more dangerous than the big one, then got a really good and impressive hit on Buffalo and Baby 5. Robin gets a go against the same fodder doing crowd control against New Fishmen Pirates, takes out Hammond in pretty impressive way, gets to fight more Dressrosa randoms, puts Hakuba in his place, and aids Kyros against Diamente. We all want specific 1on1 fights for these 2 because often times there is some decent character development that goes on with a full fight for the Straw Hats. But to say Oda avoids any fighting for the women is just dumb dude.

For the most part it would appear that Oda doesn't want to show his women taking beatings in the way that the men do and you know what thats totally understandable, it's his story he can do what he wants. At the same time every so often the girls do take some good ones to the chin. Robin took a bloody shoulder bite from Monet and was struck by one of Diamente's iron spikes of rain. Nami got struck by Franky and took plenty of hits while Sanji was in her body.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not satisfied with their moments of fighting because I certainly want more. I just can't pretend that they rarely lend a hand at all. I personally want a ton more out of these 2 along with Chopper and Brook. I guess we're lucky though, Oda seems to be setting us up for just that.

[HacheBe]

@HeartOfDarkness:

Yes i understand the trend "Nami and Robin or any female SHOULD get some kind of fight (because even though it serves no purpose, we must absolutely shove in pointless fights because FEMALE RIGHTS or whatever is the latest trend)". What i am trying to understand is why that is important for the story. Really there seems to be no real reason for wanting that except just for the sake of it and just fulfilling someone's fan-fiction.

That what we are saying is we want to have them have a fight that matters that moves the story forward and has them develop as a character. When we say we want them to fight its not like we want them to do it for no reason we want a fight in which there is a purpose and the character can strengthen their resolve on their feelings.

Just like Luffy doesn't just beat people up for no reason he wants to prove something. Robin defending the historical site against that one guy is a perfect example she stood up for something she believed in and fought back. It showed us a the core of her character and while we may know Robin and Nami very well I would just like to se a fight in which we see their resolve and backbone.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RomanceDawn:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not satisfied with their moments of fighting because I certainly want more. I just can't pretend that they rarely lend a hand at all. I personally want a ton more out of these 2 along with Chopper and Brook. I guess we're lucky though, Oda seems to be setting us up for just that.

I know it makes me really excited because tbh for me its not just Robin and Nami but also Brook and Chopper. Usurp got his moment in awakening haki and I want to see the rest of the crew do something similar.