Anyways, KC, regarding that page, what do you think Aokiji meant about Doffy being the single biggest threat to Sakazuki's marines? Personally, I have no idea.
It's probably about Doula's influence over the WG. If Akainu's Marines are supposed to be fully supportive of the WG's policies, I guess it's logical that they would find difficulty taking care of such a guy.
By truly supporting a criminal that can destroy the world?
I don't know what you mean by truly supporting a criminal that can destroy the world, I never said such a thing.
Big MoM ate - 2012
CC for nakama.
I don't know what you mean by truly supporting a criminal that can destroy the world, I never said such a thing.
He means supporting Blackbeard, a man with the gura gura which enables him to destroy the world.
That's what I think as well. Buggy wouldn't be able to counter that type of CoA based attack, which seems superior to the basic hardening attack in my opinion.
Seemed to me like Sentoumaru just used a lot smaller version of what 3 admirals used when they defended against Whitebeard's quake. Sort of pushed Luffy away with giant gloves made of Haki. I realize I stepped into bad territory here, so I'll just stop, lol.
Then again it might just have been normal Haki defense, so strong that it blew Luffy away just by repelling his punches.
When is chapter out
the wait is killing me
Even Mihawk says he is not gonna go easy on Luffy yet people believe he wasn't serious? He wasn't even using haki?
Doflamingo wasn't using haki
Crocodile wasn't using haki
kuma wasn't using haki
New world Capatins wasn't using haki enough with this joke.Because post Timeskip Mihawk can use haki doesn't mean he was capable 2 years ago, I'm sure as hell post Timeskip Crocodile will suddenly be spamming haki left and right… Only a flashback to when they were younger will only prove if they had haki back then or not.
i thought it was obvious that most of the big names were kept on a leash during the war for plot reasons it wouldn't make sense for doflamingo to go all out during the war when his main show was yet to begin
mihawk wasn't using haki for that same reason and because he didn't have to since his prey is a rubber man , the fact that he was testing luffy indicates that he wasn't fighting seriously even if he said he wasn't going easy
add to that the fact that he didn't cut crocodile's hook even though he's supposed to be able to cut anything
Because post Timeskip Mihawk can use haki doesn't mean he was capable 2 years ago, I'm sure as hell post Timeskip Crocodile will suddenly be spamming haki left and right… Only a flashback to when they were younger will only prove if they had haki back then or not.
what is this ? i'm not sure if you're arguing for the sake of arguing or you actually believe what you just said so i'm gonna stop
When is chapter out
the wait is killing me
Congratulations, you are like the 10th person who asked this question.
I was always under the impression he's immune to normal cutting thanks to his ability. Not very much unlike Luffy's immunity to blunt.
Now, if Mihawk had used CoA on Marineford when he turned Buggy into a stack of pancakes, it would be one bloody stack of pancakes.
If Buggy can split before CoA slash catches him, he should be fine.
Even as it was comedy bit of chapter back then I guess that if Luffy can avoid Mihawks blade also Buggy can split himself in proper places just in time. He might be weakling compared to top but he still has his Devil Fruit ability for quite long time so I guess he can do some stuff on reflex with it. Avoiding being cut in half should be no problem but being cut to ribbons like that was a bit of a strech for Oda as it goes for haki being part of most fights every time.
Btw some things about Crocodile that people mentioned like him deflecting Mihawks blade or cutting Akainu were not as impressive for me as moment when Crocodile probably on reflex split himself, exactly his head off avoiding death from Mingo strings.
I dont know if it was his reflexes for sure though as looking at how Akainu gotten affected by haki(not much fucks given when Marco and Vista cut him) I guess that Logias by covering themselves with at least that basic invisible CoA can minimize or nullify damage that they should get from haki imbued attacks. But still those logias in fights with haki users have to additionally controlnt their fuild body beside having control over haki so that should make fighting with haki users more "pain in the ass" kind of fight.
Haki on Logias(other people as well) can be like a bit like that coating M3 gotten here http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v62/c605/8.html and as long as enemys haki isnt clearly stronger no damage is inflicted as haki might bend in like logias body, it would explain why Akainu looked to be perfectly fine here and said its irritating and not painful to fight haki users
! 
Even as it was comedy bit of chapter back then I guess that if Luffy can avoid Mihawks blade also Buggy can split himself in proper places just in time
i don't think it was the same thing he avoided like 20 instant cuts head on ?
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i don't think it was the same thing he avoided like 20 instant cuts head on ?
If you really need some super answer for that then I say Mihawk didnt wanted to either get hit by Buggy same as he didnt wanted to kill him. He most likely knew his ability and just slashed him using normal slash without haki same as Zoro used against Monet. Its not like if somebody knows haki its used in every attack that person ever does- you probably agree with that, right?
Nobody knows, nobody should care very much because its not like any answer is clear and 100% certain or that it will affect anything in story or future fights. Some people like nitpicking, this scene can be just one of those where few explanations are fine and we dont even need one that is certain. It was something done more for a gag than anything else(especially where Oda did mistake or misstep when it comes to showing haki user fights before timeskip bla bla bla kind of discussion 
).
If you really need some super answer for that then I say Mihawk didnt wanted to either get hit by Buggy same as he didnt wanted to kill him. He most likely knew his ability and just slashed him using normal slash without haki same as Zoro used against Monet. Its not like if somebody knows haki its used in every attack that person ever does- you probably agree with that, right?
fair enough ….
anyway, if what i recall is right, armament haki pre-ts wasn't draw darkened by oda so we don't really know wether marineford attacks were imbued or not. (buggy btw wasn't hit by haki).
just to give my contribution
For crying out loud, compared to Luffy's reflexes, Buggy is a dead horse.
True.
But the introduction of Haki created some plotholes (I really don't like to use this word). for exemple Shanks didn't use CoC when he saved Luffy, Crocodile a NW veteran didn't have Haki …
A bunch of the Donquixote Pirates are NW veterans, but they don't have Haki. Same goes for a bunch of the Colosseum gladiators.
Haki is something that has to be learned and trained. It's not a RPG level up move. Crocodile was simply one of those overconfident Logias Pekoms talked about.
For crying out loud, compared to Luffy's reflexes, Buggy is a dead horse.
How can you tell so precisely?
Who said Crocodile doesn't know Haki?
Just because his hook don't turn black doesn't mean he cannot use it.
A bunch of the Donquixote Pirates are NW veterans, but they don't have Haki. Same goes for a bunch of the Colosseum gladiators.
Haki is something that has to be learned and trained. It's not a RPG level up move. Crocodile was simply one of those overconfident Logias Pekoms talked about.
Crocodile a NW veteran, fought against WB… don't have Haki while someone like Boo have it. weird.
Congratulations, you are like the 10th person who asked this question.
So it was clever to ask early. :ninja:
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Crocodile a NW veteran, fought against WB… don't have Haki while someone like Boo have it. weird.
Crocodile has Haki.
Oda didn't know how long One Piece will last.
Haki is a "new" invention by him to go above the DF-powers or better said, to counter them.
My Team Supreme
Crocodile a NW veteran, fought against WB… don't have Haki while someone like Boo have it. weird.
Boo is a martial artist that has to constantly train. There's a difference. Same thing with Tashigi.
It's entirely possible to be weak and still have Haki. Compare Margaret and Luffy pre-timeskip.
Crocodile, however, has always relied on his DF. He's similar to Caribou.
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@MJR.:
Crocodile has Haki.
As much as Moriah does.
Boo is a martial artist that has to constantly train. There's a difference.
In other words, only martial artists train and they are the only ones who can have haki?
@MJR.:
Crocodile has Haki.
Oda didn't know how long One Piece will last.
Haki is a "new" invention by him to go above the DF-powers or better said, to counter them.
He planned to include it from the start, more or less.
You can take Shanks in first chapter or Zoro in Alabasta as hints or not, but the word Haki appeared on Jaya for the first time, when Blackbeard commented on Luffy.
Check out this post from Greg.
I'm not saying Oda couldn't have done a better job with it's introduction, especially since it raises many questions in retrospect.
Denying Croco's Haki is saying that Sanji is stronger than Croco.
Maybe Croco didn't had Haki pre time skip, same Moriah, but things could have changed.
I must say that I start to like the idea of Moriah back fit and kicking asses.
(Just thought only now that Moriah disappeared thanks to Absalom's power, I'm dumb)
Proud Kintama Owner 
Maybe Croco didn't had Haki pre time skip, same Moriah, but things could have changed.
With Moriah likely being involved somehow in the final Kaido battle, I'm sure he'll be back into shape and trained.
Can't wait for sweet double team moves from Moria and Doppleman
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Denying Croco's Haki is saying that Sanji is stronger than Croco.
Why can't Sanji be stronger than Croco??
Makes sense that a fighter will be better at CoA than, say, a navigator.
Yeah, makes sense.
I doesn't make sense that a NW veteran who keeps searching for strength, fought the WSM… don't have haki.
Why can't Sanji be stronger than Croco??
I would like if Crocodile would stay somehow rival of Luffy in a way and if 3rd mate of Strawhats is stronger than Crocodile.. I dont see that.
Croco was pretty strong guy before Timeskip, some 2 years of polishing in New World and he gets back to his best I would say.
He should be a badass now more than ever before.
Sanji and Croco can be equals around end of story though and I would have no problem with that :ninja:
Somehow I also think they both share some trauma connected to Okamas.
I would like if Crocodile would stay somehow rival of Luffy in a way and if 3rd mate of Strawhats is stronger than Crocodile.. I dont see that.
Croco was pretty strong guy before Timeskip, some 2 years of polishing in New World and he gets back to his best I would say.He should be a badass now more than ever before.
Sanji and Croco can be equals around end of story though and I would have no problem with that :ninja:
Somehow I also think they both share some trauma connected to Okamas.
Jinbe buttfucks Croco simply because water>sand, but still Croco hasn't ever showed much physical strenght, so I think even without the natural advantage Jinbe still buttfucks Croco because of his well trained fighting skills.
Then we have the fact that no one stronger than M3 can join the crew simply because that would mess up M3, soo in order for Jinbe to join the crew Sanji should at least be stronger than Croco and Moria.
Jinbe buttfucks Croco simply because water>sand, but still Croco hasn't ever showed much physical strenght, so I think even without the natural advantage Jinbe still buttfucks Croco because of his well trained fighting skills.
Then we have the fact that no one stronger than M3 can join the crew simply because that would mess up M3, soo in order for Jinbe to join the crew Sanji should at least be stronger than Croco and Moria.
I dont agree and I cant get what does Jinbe has to do with Crocodile or Moria. For all I know I would have expected Crocodile and Jinbe to have pretty even fight at Impel Down when they looked like they want to get at it. Why I think so? Because it felt like that back then. I would not jupm to conclusions like Jinbe > Croco because water is solution to all(Croco has counter to water as well and we do not know if he can make air perfectly dry nullifying Fishman Karate shockwaves, Croco being perhaps only Devil Fruit user having perfect counter to Fishman Karate).
As for your argument with monster trio we can have monster quartet and I would have 0 problem with that. Its not like 3 really strong fighters in crew that will go against Yonko and silver medalists like Supernovas and Big Names from New World(that all seem to have pretty big crews) is enough.
I would say that 4 comparably strong people in crew is far better than just 3. But somehow I feel like Jinbe has deathflags all over him somehow and we will get somebody else and another grave for Jinbe:getlost:
Now I expect that Crocodile stepped up his game so to say and he is considerably stronger and more resolved than he was ever before. Thats why I really look foward seeing him back in story playing some interesting role in how things will go with Yonko conflict.
@Devil:
That's gonna be sweet indeed, I wonder what new tricks he'll have up his sleeve.
PS: Late congratulations on your new stars to you and the others :]
Haha, thanks man.
Can't wait for sweet double team moves from Moria and Doppleman
You are sounding like Beka.
Which is awesome.
In other words, only martial artists train and they are the only ones who can have haki?
No, it means that Haki is something that you have to train to achieve.
A bodybuilder is not a karate expert just because he's strong. He has to learn karate first.
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Denying Croco's Haki is saying that Sanji is stronger than Croco.
This is stupid, you know.
Was Marguerite stronger than Luffy pre-timeskip?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I doesn't make sense that a NW veteran who keeps searching for strength, fought the WSM… don't have haki.
You know fighting Whitebeard and losing is nothing special, right?
He relied too much on his Logia abilities.
No, it means that Haki is something that you have to train to achieve.
What makes you think that Crocodile didn't train to achieve haki? Did you see Bobo train?
What makes you think that Crocodile didn't train to achieve haki? Did you see Bobo train?
How about the fact that, instead of trying to become stronger, he was trying to find a shortcut through an Ancient Weapon? Similar to how Moriah tried to use Oars?
Do you even know how much of a NW veteran Crocodile is? How much time do you think he spent there? I think you're really overestimating Crocodile there.
Oh, and Sai and Boo have been mentioned to be always training, as they're the leaders of the Happou Navy. It seems logical to believe that they would train at Haki fighting, especially with their grandfather being a CoA expert. That doesn't mean they're stronger than Crocodile, but they actually went through the proper steps to achieve Haki.
That's more than I can say about Crocodile. He doesn't really show any remarkable skill outside his DF powers. Luffy needed 2 years of proper training and he's not even a Haki expert yet.
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I would like if Crocodile would stay somehow rival of Luffy in a way and if 3rd mate of Strawhats is stronger than Crocodile.. I dont see that.
Croco was pretty strong guy before Timeskip, some 2 years of polishing in New World and he gets back to his best I would say.
He's most likely going to be overshadowed as his time as a main villain is over. And Luffy already has 8 other rivals.
I dont agree and I cant get what does Jinbe has to do with Crocodile or Moria. For all I know I would have expected Crocodile and Jinbe to have pretty even fight at Impel Down when they looked like they want to get at it. Why I think so? Because it felt like that back then. I would not jupm to conclusions like Jinbe > Croco because water is solution to all(Croco has counter to water as well and we do not know if he can make air perfectly dry nullifying Fishman Karate shockwaves, Croco being perhaps only Devil Fruit user having perfect counter to Fishman Karate).
As for your argument with monster trio we can have monster quartet and I would have 0 problem with that. Its not like 3 really strong fighters in crew that will go against Yonko and silver medalists like Supernovas and Big Names from New World(that all seem to have pretty big crews) is enough.
I would say that 4 comparably strong people in crew is far better than just 3. But somehow I feel like Jinbe has deathflags all over him somehow and we will get somebody else and another grave for Jinbe:getlost:Now I expect that Crocodile stepped up his game so to say and he is considerably stronger and more resolved than he was ever before. Thats why I really look foward seeing him back in story playing some interesting role in how things will go with Yonko conflict.
Luffy defeated him with a barrel of water, Croco looks pretty helpless against water bender jinbe, besides, Croco is not Luffy's rival anymore, I can even see Zoro getting rid of him with no problem at all.
And that's not what I meant with M3, assuming Jinbe joins Sanji is totally losing his position as the third strongest one, and M3 will be Luffy, Zoro and Jinbe.
Also, there's that people who believe that Sanji is gonna fight Kizaru by the end of the series, I don't believe this but the Kizaru>Croro is just as clear as water, and as long as there's people believing the Sanji vs Kizaru is gonna happen it means I'm not alone on believing Sanji>Croco.
How about the fact that, instead of trying to become stronger, he was trying to find a shortcut through an Ancient Weapon? Similar to how Moriah tried to use Oars?
Croco trying to find an ancient Weapon doesn't mean he didn't train himself.
Do you even know how much of a NW veteran Crocodile is? How much time do you think he spent there? I think you're really overestimating Crocodile there.
Enough time to be acknowledged by the WG and other veteran pirates like Doflamingo, WB… I think you're really underestimating Crocodile there.
Oh, and Sai and Boo have been mentioned to be always training, as they're the leaders of the Happou Navy. It seems logical to believe that they would train at Haki fighting, especially with their grandfather being a CoA expert.
It's logical that someone like Crocodile to have Haki.
It's logical that someone like Crocodile to have Haki.
But there's no evidence that he does.
Being a NW "veteran" does not translate in instant Haki. Moriah is also a NW veteran, but he never showed any evidence of Haki either, even though the concept had already been introduced at the time.
The Donquixote Pirates have been in the New World for 10 years and none of them have shown Haki except Doula, Vergo and possibly the other seats.
So yeah, Crocodile not having Haki is not a plothole at all. That can be easily answered as simply "he didn't train to be able to use Haki". An actual plothole would be him actually having Haki, but not using it against Luffy when he became able to hit him.
The thing is, Oda fucked up big time and when Crocoboy shows up again, you'll see him pulling some blackening out of his ass.
The concept of Haki has become more of a thing after the time skip, so is completely reasonable for people like Crocoboy, Lucci and Moriah not to show such feats when they were the main focus on the story, also KC, Whitebeard + Ivankow seems to know the guy pretty well and you don't learn about somebody who comes and go in the blink of an eye, so Crocoboy was/is well known and should be able to use Haki, but like I said the 'concept' was not there back then.
The thing is, Oda fucked up big time and when Crocoboy shows up again, you'll see him pulling some blackening out of his ass.
The concept of Haki has become more of a thing after the time skip, so is completely reasonable for people like Crocoboy, Lucci and Moriah not to show such feats when they were the main focus on the story, also KC, Whitebeard + Ivankow seems to know the guy pretty well and you don't learn about somebody who comes and go in the blink of an eye, so Crocoboy was/is well known and should be able to use Haki, but like I said the 'concept' was not there back then.
Being well-known =/= Having Haki. That's the problem here. You can't claim that being reasonably well-known but not having Haki is a plothole even if Oda didn't execute the idea of Haki perfectly.
CoA was already hinted way back when Garp was able to hit Luffy, so you can't excuse Moriah.
But there's no evidence that he does.
Being a NW "veteran" does not translate in instant Haki. Moriah is also a NW veteran, but he never showed any evidence of Haki either, even though the concept had already been introduced at the time.
The Donquixote Pirates have been in the New World for 10 years and none of them have shown Haki except Doula, Vergo and possibly the other officers.
There's also no evidence that he doesn't.
I'm simply asking why Crocodile didn't show haki. we know that using haki is the minimum requirement to survive in the NW.
I think that The Donquixote family case is a bad exemple. Because they didn't have to get stronger or learn haki to survive since they are protected by Dodo and he probably give them whatever they want (He thinks of them as a family, also they all become fatter :ninja:)
I'm simply asking why Crocodile didn't show haki. we know that using haki is the minimum requirement to survive in the NW.
That's the thing, though. Crocodile didn't survive the New World. The fact that he only had a 81 Million bounty before becoming a Warlord shows that he didn't really impact things over there.
I mean, the likes of Cavendish and Bartolomeo are doing better than him.
I think that The Donquixote family case is a bad exemple. Because they didn't have to get stronger or learn haki to survive since they are protected by Dodo and he probably give them whatever they want (He thinks of them as a family, also they all become fatter :ninja:)
The Diamante Army were unbeatable at the Colosseum, a place that was frequently summoning warriors over the NW. Dellinger, a 16-year old, beat 4 reasonably famous names.
Also, Machvise defeated Boo, a Haki user. Same thing with Lao G and Chinjao. See how having Haki is not an indication of strength?
Being well-known =/= Having Haki. That's the problem here. You can't claim that being reasonably well-known but not having Haki is a plothole even if Oda didn't execute the idea of Haki perfectly.
I'm not saying this is a plot hole but as soon as Crocoboy uses it, it will become one because is not like he was trying his whole life to get a hold of the Ancient weapons, but he was trying to go against the big fishes and you don't do that by being half hearted.
CoA was already hinted way back when Garp was able to hit Luffy, so you can't excuse Moriah.
It was hinted alright and could have been taken as gag scene by many and I bet you many took it that way, but then again Moriah was a New World Pirate and a Shishibukai at that, so is fine If he doesn't had haki back then, but may be has it now.
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That's the thing, though. Crocodile didn't survive the New World. The fact that he only had a 81 Million bounty before becoming a Warlord shows that he didn't really impact things over there.
I mean, the likes of Cavendish and Bartolomeo are doing better than him.
What are your basis for this? A higher bounty?
The thing is, Oda fucked up big time and when Crocoboy shows up again, you'll see him pulling some blackening out of his ass.
The concept of Haki has become more of a thing after the time skip, so is completely reasonable for people like Crocoboy, Lucci and Moriah not to show such feats when they were the main focus on the story, also KC, Whitebeard + Ivankow seems to know the guy pretty well and you don't learn about somebody who comes and go in the blink of an eye, so Crocoboy was/is well known and should be able to use Haki, but like I said the 'concept' was not there back then.
Haha if those 3 guys come back hardering their butts and stuff is indeed gonna be super evident that the whole concept of haki as we know it right know never really existed despite what Shanks did and the mantra thing.
I'm not saying this is a plot hole but as soon as Crocoboy uses it, it will become one because is not like he was trying his whole life to get a hold of the Ancient weapons, but he was trying to go against the big fishes and you don't do that by being half hearted.
Well, obviously he's going to suddenly have Haki post-timeskip. It can be easily explained that he learned it in those last 2 years, like Luffy and Smoker.
One could say that because of his interest in Pluton, he thought Haki would be unnecessary. Moriah had a similar thinking. He really thought a Giant Zombie could allow him to conquer the New World.
What are your basis for this? A higher bounty?
For a so-called NW veteran, Crocodile's bounty is kind of low. Not because of strenght, but it doesn't reflect his supposed fame before becoming a Warlord (if he was even that famous).
It's just half a million higher than Brownbeard's (who is half-crocodile, funnily enough).
Haha if those 3 guys come back hardering their butts and stuff is indeed gonna be super evident that the whole concept of haki as we know it right know never really existed despite what Shanks did and the mantra thing.
To me the whole concept was evolving through time and now we have hardening who some fans consider it to be the next phase of Armament that only appeared after the time-skip because we NEVER saw such of thing in Marine Ford aka the exposition arc.
