Chapter 736: " Executive Officer Diamante"

Shadowgreed

so here we go shadowgreed

we have Black Beard

…

scaring shanks, with shanks saying I was on guard and not underestimating him…. but apparently Luffy could do that to

Is no like I was careless or anything, saying that Blackbeard made that scar but you're clearly going with A > B > C formula aren't you?

I'm pretty sure Magellan nor Whitebeard where careless either but one was left in critical conditions and the other one die, am I right?

Shanks wasn't careless when he went to save Luffy but yet his lost an arm, didn't he?

we have black beard kicking the shit out of ace like there's no tomorrow…. which alone should show you that your argument is stupid beyond belief unless your seriously under the impression Luffy > Ace

Because you read the whole fight thanks to the chapters that Oda mailed you, right? That fight was completely cut off, we only saw the outcome of it and like I said to the other guy Ace always uses his Devil Fruit power, you can even argue that he was a cocky logia and seen blackbeard sucking your Devil Fruit when that's the only thing you been training since you got it can really put you in a difficult mental state that will give another advantage to your opponent but a win is a win I guess.

Jinbei stoping Luffy mid fight and reminding him "he has the power to beat Ace"

Read above and they clearly had more important matter to take care of.

Taking a full on attack by White Beard the strongest character in the entire series thus far

becoming a Yonko during the time skip

He took a normal slash and an earthquake to his face, he can clearly take damage but all that is due to his Devil Fruit which is great in defense and he went to get his hands on the Gura 2x to increment his attack potential which placed him in the level of a Yonkou

why have you despite these facts think Luffy's his equal

because Luffy attacked him when he wasn't perpared and he said it hurt… REALLY!!!!! that's what makes you think there equal

Because that's what Oda portrayed in that little skirmish they had, Oda clearly showed us that Blackbeard and Luffy were equal in Impel Down but that was going to change soon enough.

and then to top it all of, I'll say it for a third time, Jinbei stops Luffy and tells him this man has the power to beat ace

you know the same ace who's second division captain of the white beard pirates, has the biggest bounty we know of, and was quite clearly stronger than Luffy, probably even now but "Nah guys luffy hit him and it hurt, no way he's stronger than him durrp"

You can say it x times, If you want! But hey stay with your beliefs and I stay with mine because… Ah whatever

Razh

@akagami7:

Since Doflamingo was a former tenryuubito, could his crew be his former slaves he himself made free? It would explain the young master thing and why almost everyone has a devil fruit (since slaves were forced to eat them for purposes of entertainment (hancock and her sisters))

That's an interesting idea. But I think all of them being his former slaves is a little too much. If I recall, only a few of them called him a "young master". And it seems more likely that they were slaves or servants of his father or something. "Young master" is a term mostly used for a child of your master.

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@Omni:

That's a brilliant idea I hadn't seen suggested before. Makes sense I suppose, maybe treating his crew as people is what actually ended up getting him kicked out of the CD's in the first place….

Don't think so. There's an image drawn by Oda showing him as a child (and other Shichibukai), and he's sitting on a old armchair, dressed in rags.

!

There's no reason to think it's not canon.

King Cannon

@wolfwood:

So outside of Buggy, name one crew that has a captain that's weaker than his subordinates?

Heck in Buggy's case his subordinates even believe that they are weaker than him.

They follow him because they think he's a hugely powerful pirate, and that he's the one protecting them.

So please, just one crew where the crew knows that the leader is weaker and they still follow him.

Does/Did CP9 count?

wolfwood

@King:

Does/Did CP9 count?

Heh i guess Spandam is nominally the head of CP9. But Lucci is pretty much their captain.

But on that same token there are people hierarchially above Spandam who are much stronger than both him and CP9.

So it's hard to compare a huge organization and a pirate crew.

King Cannon

@wolfwood:

Heh i guess Spandam is nominally the head of CP9. But Lucci is pretty much their captain.

But on that same token there are people hierarchially above Spandam who are much stronger than both him and CP9.

So it's hard to compare a huge organization and a pirate crew.

Fake Luffy/Demalo Black was also going to pull something similar.

wolfwood

@King:

Fake Luffy/Demalo Black was also going to pull something similar.

Yeah but that was another Buggy case. They all thought they were stronger than them.

And once they found out they weren't they turned on 'em.

Jabra

Demalo Black and Buggy are exceptions to the rule, that's the joke.

Also post TS CP9 kicks everyone's ass.

Light Bro

@King:

Does/Did CP9 count?

Well they're not crew so…

Still it's obvious that Blackbeard is the most capable fighter in his crew! (I still refuse to believe in any strength ranks!) He's been constantly built as an "anti-Luffy", with same dreams and beliefs but no honor. So it wouldn't make sense for him to be weaker than any of his crewmembers, since Luffy isn't either!

wolfwood

@Jabra:

Demalo Black and Buggy are exceptions to the rule, that's the joke.

Also post TS CP9 kicks everyone's ass.

Post TS CP9 is watching us all right now.

xxjoshxx

@KageZero:

Ok the man who destroyed ace, defeated maggelan and made havoc on marineford was just as strong as luffy pretimeskip, sounds right. Now explain me why luffy wasn't able to do anything on marineford if he was on blackbeard's level i really want to hear it.

If I remember correctly Magellan wiped the floor with Blackbeard's crew.

Monquito

@Mex:

Just to answer to a question for mere manners.
Strawhats pre timeskip: Zoro was stronger than Luffy in my opinion. But Luffy still was captain and managed to beat super strong characters.
Your answer to mine: "WTF you talking? Whaaa? Sure? etc."
My answers: 1)Read again all OP 2)Zoro was still alive after fighting all thriller bark arc + fighting against Kuma + suffering Luffy damage. Luffy weak points are edged weapons. (see MF).
Your answer: "That means nothing and they bla bla etc. etc."
My answer: "Rolling pirates, all weaklings, but the captain may be someone important, by the way I am out, have fun!"
Your Answer: "Yeah see, you quit cause you can't argue etc. etc."
My answer: Will never come…

The End.

For real... The End.

Oohh, it's trolling time, okaay

Raleigh were stronger than Roger. Wooo wooop, now everyone lose your minds!!

vagabond87

@Light:

Well they're not crew so…

I hope for them being kind of crew now with their own ship. They surely will be back and by all logic they should be fairly stronger now.
With some better haki than for example Lucci had they sould stay a force that matters in bigger picture.

Before Lucci gotten beaten he was not very friendly towards rest of CP9, he was rather cold :P
Maybe it changed after they helped him escape with his life from Buster Call and with fact that CP9 worked for money for Luccis healing as for true friend.
Somehow they seemed united more after Spandam crossed them/Lucci gotten healed than before they gotten to Ennies Lobby and were kind of every single one for himslef.

Soul_Bassist23

Blackbeard and Luffy being equals in Impel Down is one of the most absurd things I've read on here…just no, they weren't. Blackbeard always takes the first hit anyway, it's kind of like a gag relating to the suction powers of his ridiculous devil fruit.

The man killed a Whitebeard commander in cold blood on the Moby Dick, severely injured another commander that would indirectly result in his death, and played a monumental part in killing Whitebeard. The man is a murderer. Magellan is lucky he's alive at all. In the same way, so is Luffy when he came across him.

I thought this was clear cut...

desa

@wolfwood:

Well wouldn't those be the losers? As i recall Blacky had the level 6 convicts fight. And whoever won their respective cage he took with him.

Or are people suggesting that there were others even stronger, who refused to join him, who he just let out for fun?

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Blackbeards guys have repeatedly suggested that they should be leader instead.

While Buggy's guys worship him like a god. See the difference?

Fight to the death were the winners get out with the option of joining Blackbeard. Some accepted to join other didn't.

Well they know with Balckbeard they can get any devil fruit and he got them Whitebeard's head. And he had a 2devil fruits with one having the power the world. They could simply be banking on him to get to the top since they failed.

KageZero

@Shadowgreed:

Blackbeard defeated Ace, a guy who always uses his Devil Fruit powers and for what we know he took heavy damage due to Blackbeard's punch and was completely confused afterwards while Luffy took damage and inflicted damage because he's a brawler no an elemental fighter, no saying Ace didn't inflict damage but If he kept attacking BB with his Devil Fruit there's no much he can do against him since he can suck it all in. Blackbeard didn't defeat Magellan, Magellan defeat every single member of BB's pirate crew but Shelew saved them later on and now that they had intel on him plus the level 6 guys, so they took him down (All of them, no Blackbeard alone) and Luffy made havoc in Marine Ford for a guy who went from Sabody to Amazon Lily to Impel Down to Marine Ford that's pretty impressive, blackbeard got kicked around, gang banged on a sick old man and got his hand on the Gura 2x, that when he stepped away from Luffy.

Blackbeards power neutralizes the effects of others df so it's possible that he also neutralised magellan's venom. Ace was even physically a lot stronger then luffy pre ts so im sure his punch did at least the same damage as luffy when he jumped on BB. Also let's not forget that luffy hit BB while the guy was talking with him on suprise and yet from it only managed to "tickle" him.

I't still hard for me to grasp that someone would say that luffy could have matched BB in impel down. I mean we are talking about the guy whom even shanks thought to be one of the most dangerous people on the see. He even went to WB personally and warned him that he should call ace back because he was sure that he had no chance against such an opponent.

desa

Why the heck does Blackbeard level at Imperel Down matters? He got the Guts shortly after anyways.

Saturnchild

@wolfwood:

And yet there is a hierarchy of power within both the Strawhats and the Moria pirates.

So you buy lots of brand X henchmen and people weaker than the Blackbeards ganging up and beating his ass.

But the concept of Blackbeard and his newly imbued crew, consisting of ID's most powerful, doing the same is obviously not possible?

Sure. Inside the crew is one thing but when dealing with outside threats it's quite different. Again in the One Piece universe power can be quite subjective

What I buy is that the immensely powerful Level 6 prisoners ganged up and beat the shit out of Magelan while Blackbeard slipped away in the chaos, not bothering to do something as stupid as mess with Magelan again when he knows that he and his crew will need all their strength if they are going to burst in the middle of the War of The Best and have even a small chance of survival

Shadowgreed

@KageZero:

Blackbeards power neutralizes the effects of others df so it's possible that he also neutralised magellan's venom. Ace was even physically a lot stronger then luffy pre ts so im sure his punch did at least the same damage as luffy when he jumped on BB. Also let's not forget that luffy hit BB while the guy was talking with him on suprise and yet from it only managed to "tickle" him.

That guy likes to gang bang on opponents and after Magellan defeated him I don't think he will just recover and nullify a venom man without touching him, Blackbeard + crew were the ones to take Magellan down, no Blackbeard alone (That's the most likely scenario in here). Ace was never shown trowing a normal punch, he kept fighting using his Devil Fruit ability despite learning that it wasn't going to work against Blackbeard and what, are you saying that Blackbeard didn't have the time to protect himself? there was no surprise in there, Luffy went gear 2 in front of him, so he should have to get ready for whatever comes his way.

I't still hard for me to grasp that someone would say that luffy could have matched BB in impel down. I mean we are talking about the guy whom even shanks thought to be one of the most dangerous people on the see. He even went to WB personally and warned him that he should call ace back because he was sure that he had no chance against such an opponent.

Well you're reading it, aren't you. Shanks never said Blackbeard is one of the most dangerous people on the sea, he simply told Whitebeard to be wary of the man that has been hiding in his ship for over 20 years without getting recognition or any accomplishment and was waiting for the opportunity to gain power, in other words call Ace back and lets monitor the guys movements and see what his plans are and then we act.

Darkestsith6

Uhhh, are you guys forgetting? Magellan single-handedly defeated BB + Crew. If it wasn't for Shiliew finding them and curing them, they all would've died from poisoning. I think it remains unclear who defeated Magellan afterwards, but I interpreted it as a lot of the level 6 prisoners exacting revenge on him rather than BB + crew

Razh

I don't think Luffy had much of a chance back then. Blackbeard did defeat Ace, and as it stands, Ace was supposed to be stronger than Luffy.

@choperman:

does he seem to forget he easily beat the shit out of Ace like he was nothing, and wasn't even trying to kill ace, and ace was seriously attempting to end his life

Easilly and like he was nothing? I guess it's been a while since you last read 441, but let me refresh your memory.

http://www.mangareader.net/103-2548-25/one-piece/chapter-441.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2548-26/one-piece/chapter-441.html We have Ace beaten up, yeah and Blackbeard with some smudges/battle marks on his face and torso, while shown breathing heavily. The "Haa…" part, which Oda made an effort of repeating 2 times.
I always thought Oda made a mistake for not showing their entire fight, especially because dumb discussions like this one come back every couple of months. But I'd think even without showing everything, Oda made it clear it wasn't effortless and easy.

Also, saying Blackbeard pre-skip was stronger than Luffy now is just guessing things. Personally, doubt it very much.

wolfwood

@Saturnchild:

What I buy is that the immensely powerful Level 6 prisoners ganged up and beat the shit out of Magelan while Blackbeard slipped away in the chaos, not bothering to do something as stupid as mess with Magelan again when he knows that he and his crew will need all their strength if they are going to burst in the middle of the War of The Best and have even a small chance of survival

@Darkestsith6:

Uhhh, are you guys forgetting? Magellan single-handedly defeated BB + Crew. If it wasn't for Shiliew finding them and curing them, they all would've died from poisoning. I think it remains unclear who defeated Magellan afterwards, but I interpreted it as a lot of the level 6 prisoners exacting revenge on him rather than BB + crew

I still struggle to see how a third party, here to unseen, doing it is a more sensible conclusion to draw.

Maybe i'm the odd duck here, but it seems like such a strange thing to assume.

ultimas

@Darkestsith6:

Uhhh, are you guys forgetting? Magellan single-handedly defeated BB + Crew. If it wasn't for Shiliew finding them and curing them, they all would've died from poisoning. I think it remains unclear who defeated Magellan afterwards, but I interpreted it as a lot of the level 6 prisoners exacting revenge on him rather than BB + crew

Ehhh… No! No one in ID had even the Power to touch Magellan besides BB with his Fruit...so its rather BB and his new Crew beat the shit out of him, than any Level 6 Prisoner

TheGreatestSwordsman

@ultimas:

Ehhh… No! No one in ID had even the Power to touch Magellan besides BB with his Fruit...so its rather BB and his new Crew beat the shit out of him, than any Level 6 Prisoner

Other than baseless speculation, hasn't it been stated that Shiliew is on an even power level with Magellan? I thought that was mentioned..

Razh

@ultimas:

Ehhh… No! No one in ID had even the Power to touch Magellan besides BB with his Fruit...so its rather BB and his new Crew beat the shit out of him, than any Level 6 Prisoner

Nope. Blackbeard can only stop Magellan from secreting more poison from his body, after he touches him. Doesn't make him immune to the poison. If Magellan was covered with poison, like he was during most of the break out, touching him would mean getting poisoned. (But, there's always antidote, and Shillew knew where it was/gave it to BB pirates…)

Anyway, it's not like anyone had to touch him. BB pirates all have weapons so they could have just shot Magellan with seastone bullets, then beat the shit out of him, or something.

Or he was defeated by some other level 6 escapees who had devil fruits or whatever. Who gives a shit anyway?

STP_PS

@wolfwood:

So outside of Buggy, name one crew that has a captain that's weaker than his subordinates?

Heck in Buggy's case his subordinates even believe that they are weaker than him.

They follow him because they think he's a hugely powerful pirate, and that he's the one protecting them.

So please, just one crew where the crew knows that the leader is weaker and they still follow him.

.

Even if its not a pirate crew, I would say that Spandam was absurdly out of context among the CP9 members. Nonetheless they followed his orders. Granted I don´t believe they respected him but still did his bidings due to whatever reason. (I understand that Lucci was the person in charge of the operation, but still the person standing on top was Sapndam who was clearly not a capable leader, even Lucci implied this during his fight against Luffy)

So well, its not a pirate crew, but the point is that the ones being in charge and heading an organization don´t need to be the strongest ones at all. Another example is Magellan post time skip; we all know he´s stronger than Hannyabal and still due to contrittion he stepped down from his position

Edit: Another example would be the Faux strawhat scheme they were recruiting people way stronger than them taking advantage of a false pretension. Nonetheless in the eyes of those who were following them they were stronger, and that Faux strawhat crew existed even if it were for a mere 3 minutes.

King Cannon

@STP_PS:

Even if its not a pirate crew, I would say that Spandam was absurdly out of context among the CP9 members. Nonetheless they followed his orders. Granted I don´t believe they respected him but still did his bidings due to whatever reason. (I understand that Lucci was the person in charge of the operation, but still the person standing on top was Sapndam who was clearly not a capable leader, even Lucci implied this during his fight against Luffy)

So well, its not a pirate crew, but the point is that the ones being in charge and heading an organization don´t need to be the strongest ones at all. Another example is Magellan post time skip; we all know he´s stronger than Hannyabal and still due to contrittion he stepped down from his position

Spandam was already addressed. He doesn't really count because the rest of CP9 didn't really have a choice but follow him as he was appointed by the WG as their leader.

KageKageKing

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Other than baseless speculation, hasn't it been stated that Shiliew is on an even power level with Magellan? I thought that was mentioned..

Yeah, Ivankov said that they were equal in power, but Shiliew was more feared because of Magellan's diarrheas.

antsinthepants

@Darkestsith6:

Uhhh, are you guys forgetting? Magellan single-handedly defeated BB + Crew. If it wasn't for Shiliew finding them and curing them, they all would've died from poisoning. I think it remains unclear who defeated Magellan afterwards, but I interpreted it as a lot of the level 6 prisoners exacting revenge on him rather than BB + crew

I always thought it was BB + his crew, but thinking about it BB surely would have killed him and taken his df wouldnt he? (If killing him was necessary for it, or maybe Shiliew wanted him to stay alive. He also has scars on his face.)

Katzztar

@KageKageKing:

Yeah, Ivankov said that they were equal in power, but Shiliew was more feared because of Magellan's diarrheas.

Nope, Magellan having diarrhea wasn't a factor
Shilew was more feared because Magellan had some morality that Shilew lacked. It was said that Shilew was abusing his station and going overboard sadist on the prisoners.

EDIT= this state is retracted, I misunderstood the post, please see my post below before replying.

Jabra

@Katzztar:

Nope, Magellan having diarrhea wasn't a factor
Shilew was more feared because Magellan had some morality that Shilew lacked. It was said that Shilew was abusing his station and going overboard sadist on the prisoners.

No he is correct

!

But Shiliew randomly killing prisoners was certainly a factor as well.

STP_PS

@King:

Spandam was already addressed. He doesn't really count because the rest of CP9 didn't really have a choice but follow him as he was appointed by the WG as their leader.

Hahahah yep, I noticed it was adressed after I replied, I usually just reply by posts without looking any further because I would loose the idea of what I was about to say.

Anyway I read in a post (Can´t remember from who) that pirate crews and organizations cannot be compared. I feel the need to disagree here as Pirate crews are an organization per se. An illegal organization that focuses on a specific area. For Instance the Strawhat crew can be understood as a close door organization (As it is hard to be part of the crew) that focusses on adventuring, travelling and dream achievement, they are good intentioned and very open minded.

Someone might play the size card, but in the same regard it wouldn´t be completely valid. For instance a Yonkou operates as a huge organization, yet each one of the Yonkou are constituted by a Main pirate crew and their subsidiaries lol. i.e affiliates and friend.

Edit: Anyway my point is that a pirate crew is an organization per se regardless its size. Take Don Krieg against the mugiwaras

Katzztar

@Jabra:

No he is correct

!

But Shiliew randomly killing prisoners was certainly a factor as well.

Thanks for the page, I was trying to find it. I re-reading the page and the post, I realize I didn't understand the post,

I thought the post was meaning the "prisoners feared Magellens diarrhea" as literal XD,
I didn't read the post as meaning "the prisoners feared Shilew more because Magellen's diarrhea kept him away more than Shilew".

RobZilla

Considering that Magellan and Shiliew were seen as being on the same level even though Magellan's fighting style depends on a extremely potent DF while Shiliew's seems to be solely founded on swordsmanship…Shiliew must be incredibly, incredibly strong.

Terry Tate

So how did you guys manage to bridge the gap between Shiliew (eww) and Diamanté?

RobZilla

@Terry:

So how did you guys manage to bridge the gap between Shiliew (eww) and Diamanté?

Why the ewww for Shiliew?

Haters gonna hate.

textmarker

still going for the Group SABO vs. DIAMANTE ; BARTO vs. BURGESS and Rebecca running for the Mera-Mera and struggling with the FishBull…

Razh

@textmarker:

still going for the Group SABO vs. DIAMANTE ; BARTO vs. BURGESS and Rebecca running for the Mera-Mera and struggling with the FishBull…

Why struggling? Should be easy for her to avoid them and make them fall into the water.

Carmilla

@textmarker:

still going for the Group SABO vs. DIAMANTE ; BARTO vs. BURGESS and Rebecca running for the Mera-Mera and struggling with the FishBull…

Doesn't matter who fights whom, (Latter is most likely to happen though, about Rebecca) I just wanna see them fight, even for a short time, In this week's chapter :sad: waiting is awful.

TurtleFishGuy

@Carmilla:

Doesn't matter who fights whom, (Latter is most likely to happen though, about Rebecca) I just wanna see them fight, even for a short time, In this week's chapter :sad: waiting is awful.

I thought it was on break this week?

Carmilla

@TurtleFishGuy:

I thought it was on break this week?

I dunno, haven't checked thread and there's nothing written at the end of chapter..

KageZero

Offtopic why are you calling him Shiliew instead of shiryu?

Razh

@KageZero:

Offtopic why are you calling him Shiliew instead of shiryu?

Romanization.

It's fine either way, I guess. I kinda like Shiryu more, too.

peeko

@an2mlm:

bla bla bla.. i think he not sabo… i'm sure he mr.2 (bon chan) the scar right under his left eye maybe from magellan in impel down arc.. we all already know mr.2 maybe not 100% die.. like sabo story attacked by tenryuubito.. the story/spoiler from you all so annoying

You kind sir, just took darkmjna's place at the top

RobZilla

@KageZero:

Offtopic why are you calling him Shiliew instead of shiryu?

Shiryu is his romanised name I believe.

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@peeko:

You kind sir, just took darkmjna's place at the top

an2mlm is the zoro of awful posters it seems.

jabso thelaw

@TurtleFishGuy:

I thought it was on break this week?

No way …......it cant be on break...it just cant

maxterdexter

@wolfwood:

The captain being the strongest is a well-established staple of OP.

And in a power hungry crew like Teach's it's even more neccesary.

Well, the original 4 (and stronger) seem trully loyal to Blackbeard, and San Juan Wolf seems utterly maleable, so if there were to be a coup, Pizzaro, Shilew, Catarina and Vasco would have to agree in something, and overpower the other 4, so there is a certain balance in the crew.

And that's with how they were 2 years ago. Who know how loyal are they now.

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@wolfwood:

So outside of Buggy, name one crew that has a captain that's weaker than his subordinates?

Heck in Buggy's case his subordinates even believe that they are weaker than him.

They follow him because they think he's a hugely powerful pirate, and that he's the one protecting them.

So please, just one crew where the crew knows that the leader is weaker and they still follow him.

Just Krieg and Gin .

RobZilla

@maxterdexter:

Well, the original 4 (and stronger) seem trully loyal to Blackbeard, and San Juan Wolf seems utterly maleable, so if there were to be a coup, Pizzaro, Shilew, Catarina and Vasco would have to agree in something, and overpower the other 4, so there is a certain balance in the crew.

And that's with how they were 2 years ago. Who know how loyal are they now.

Judging from the way Teach was talking to Burgess about Aokiji/Shiliew on the den-den mushi, there does seem to be some genuine respect/friendship there (With Shiliew and Teach/Burgess at least).

I don't think the lvl.6r's would actually overthrow Teach, although I could see Pizarro's "Can I Be Captain?" continuing as a running gag and quirk for his character.

wolfwood

@maxterdexter:

Just Krieg and Gin .

Was he though? Gin was certainly a beast but i felt that Kreig was portrayed as the superior one.

maxterdexter

@wolfwood:

Was he though? Gin was certainly a beast but i felt that Kreig was portrayed as the superior one.

I have to read again those volumes, but I think that Gin was said to be stronger and better than Krieg. Before he dissapeared out of the face of the manga, bringing the strongest case for a dead character in a while. .

Katzztar

@maxterdexter:

I have to read again those volumes, but I think that Gin was said to be stronger and better than Krieg. Before he dissapeared out of the face of the manga, bringing the strongest case for a dead character in a while. .

I don't remember that I thought they said Gin was the strongest of the crew -meaning its not including the captain (Kreig) in the comparison but those who serve under the captain.
Was it online you read that, or in official translated book? We have to be aware some site make bad translations,