One Piece 723: Change of plans

TheXDrake

Zoro might not be seen as VC inside the strawhat crew, but the rest of the one piece world sees him as the VC. How else would Barto know about him being the VC? He's getting that information from the newspapers.

desa

@DollarScholar:

No, they arent. He is the main villain of Dressrosa wich means that Luffy will defeat him. Sanji/Zoro has never been in the same league as a powerful main arc villain. we have seen them try and get stomped a few times.

Croc and Ener were logias. And we dom't know Zoro would have done against Lucci.

Supernova122

@Toraish:

This "I can see 4000km in every direction using my DF" bullshit is even worse than Hody's water bullet traversing a 500km distance within Fishman Island that was shown to be incredibly small. Oda's grasp on basic geography is quite frankly appalling.

@Toraish:

That's still ridiculous beyond reason. A 4000km radius? Do you have any idea how high up you would have to be to see that big of an area? Or how ludicrously big a zoom you would have to possess to be able to see anything accurately from a height like that? I call serious BS on this one. 400km would have been somewhat believable, although even that much is a stretch, but four thousand? Irredeemable.

I've understood her power differently to you. I interpreted it as she can see from a bird's eye view anything in that region, rather than she has a bird's eye view strictly from a point directly above her.

Although 4000km does feel like way too much. that's surely so much more than Dressrosa that it's ridiculous >_> Surely all the surrounding islands would be in her field also?

Gizmo

For reference, a 4000 km radius essentially would allow Violet to see all of Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Africa

desa

@DollarScholar:

Sanji losing an arm instead of his trademark leg would actually be pretty cool. it would affect his character in general with the exception of battles.

This is the New World. You should not expect people to go through it without getting a few scars, or losing a limb or two. wooden legs and such is classic pirate stuff.

Leg are his style and arms are his cooking skills. He ain't going to loose them. Up to now we saw only two active pirates missing limbs and one was by choice.. So it really is an uncommon thing among the pirates anyways.

retrobot

@DollarScholar:

Sanji losing an arm instead of his trademark leg would actually be pretty cool. it would affect his character in general with the exception of battles.

This is the New World. You should not expect people to go through it without getting a few scars, or losing a limb or two. wooden legs and such is classic pirate stuff.

My thoughts exactly. The New World shouldn't be taken lightly after Oda building up how scary it is compared to the first half of the Grand Line and I think the fans need to be reminded of that. Like Gekko Morriah said, you will lose everything you cherish in the New World and you'll face the "The Ultimate Nightmare" there.

DollarScholar

@Kishido:

Zoro was always handicapped and it's not that other SHs were so as well

And some posters say all Shichibukai are close to each other and seeing FI with Jinbe/Sanji… Sanji should be as well... But oh wait he is no SuperNova either so no way and a big bad guy can't fought by someone below that... Hell some even say there is no monster trio blurb blurb even if the current chapter shows very much how the others piss themselves being happy Sanji appeared.

PS
DoFla will win after all... I rank him higher than most of the other Shichibukai bar Mihawk

Well yeah, Sanji would literary kick 99% of all pirate's asses into the ocean. But Doflamingo belongs to that other 1%. I dont mean to come off as saying Sanji is weak, thats not he point. He is a powerhouse. But Doflamingo is simply a monster, and only luffy could defeat him (wich he will sooner or later)

desa

@TheXDrake:

Zoro might not be seen as VC inside the strawhat crew, but the rest of the one piece world sees him as the VC. How else would Barto know about him being the VC? He's getting that information from the newspapers.

From the news he assumed that baddass MOFO was the VC. The bounty confort him in that opinion.

desa

Surprisingly I didn't miss block D.

I wonder when Monkey King is coming.

peeko

@Apprentice:

Law just survived his encounter with DD AND an admiral and was able to run away and outrun DD. Obviously DD doesn't outclass Law as much as say lucci outclasses buggy. Then law said this chapter that he would willingly fight DD on the Bridge as part of his plan. So he doesn't believe DD has the power to stream roll him. Therefore it's highly likely sanji can at least hold DD off for a few minutes on his own. Is that not logical?

it is really logical to me none the less mate

Muq'ch_H

@desa:

Surprisingly I didn't miss block D.

I wonder when Monkey King is coming.

Block D didn't cross my mind till just now.

Juvar

@desa:

Surprisingly I didn't miss block D.

I wonder when Monkey King is coming.

Brace yourselves, MK is coming.

NER

@retrobot:

Shanks favoured his left arm before he lost it and Owner Zeff lost his leg. There isn't a general rule in One Piece that main characters can't lose their limbs because it's their primary means of fighting.

Zeff and Shanks aren't main characters.

Oda isn't stupid, if someone is going to lose a limb, they will fucking lose it.
he only do that thing with emotional impacts turning into nothing with side characters death, and to be honest its pretty much enough.

King Cannon

@Juvar:

Brace yourselves, MK is coming.

Only to say that this thread is shit through a metaphor.

Heavenly Demon

So we still have yet to see Doflamingo sustain a scratch on his body. Maybe Sanji will manage to do that. Would be quite the feat.

CCC

@King:

Only to say that this thread is shit through a metaphor.

Still better than the spoiler thread.

4000 km > Flamey Mera Sanji gets leg cut off

x20a

Given the range of her skill, wouldn't she be the best navigator for finding One Piece?

TheXDrake

@desa:

From the news he assumed that baddass MOFO was the VC. The bounty confort him in that opinion.

Possibly, but i don't think that's why he thinks Zoro is VC. Oda pretty much confirmed it here, Zoro is the VC.

zuppamann

Nice chapter!!!
Special guest: Sonic the hedgehog as Gradius… :ninja:

Dryish

@Pirate:

thank you for explaining this to them, i dont know why ppl arguing by this after seeing someone like WB can destroy the whole world and they say violet DF is too hax come on srsly its OP some DF suppose to be haxed

I'm seriously amused by how people always bring up and play the "Whitebeard's DF was hax too, stop whining!" card without also mentioning that he was:

A) titled "The Strongest Man in the World".
B) according to Sengoku, capable of destroying the entire world with his power - indicating that the extent of his powers was known, understood, and feared.
C) completely in line with the inherent logic of Oda's world.

Obviously the cracks in air were over the top, but those were merely visual aesthetics created to represent what he was doing. That's where reliance on suspension of disbelief is completely acceptable as it is a clear stylistic choice that has no other in-story relevance whatsoever. It would be a different matter entirely if someone was shown to suffocate because of cracks in the air or if someone was shattered to pieces by the cracking, but since it was always WB's tremors that did all the damage this is not even a point of contention.

But that's not the thing that gets me, it's the fact that people choose to completely ignore the nature of his ability when they shout hax and use that to justify other seemingly hax things within the universe. Whitebeard's ability was amongst the strongest in the world so of course it did things that can be considered unnatural. But what matters is the way it functioned and did those things. His ability was tremors, transforming the energy of his Devil Fruit into kinetic energy and injecting it into the physical world. What's questionable is how much he was able to control anything that happened thereafter - I assume that he really couldn't but that he had experimented so much with it that he knew when and how much energy to inject to create tremors with a certain specific effect - but what he did was not inexplicable "hax". His tremors would literally replace matter at one location momentarily, causing it and everything adjacent to it to move. That's basic physics. It works because the world operates with the same physics that we know.

You can argue that flipping entire islands and the sea next to it with tremors is stupid because it breaks some laws of physics, but it can be argued against just as easily by saying that WB himself must have known how to utilise his tremors in order to make different layers of the earth move in different directions at the right moment. That's the suspension of disbelief element. It doesn't have to be 100% physically accurate to work within an imaginary universe as long as it is grounded in a basic law of reality. That's when it is completely acceptable to rely on that tool.

But when we're talking about magically suspending your eyes or, more accurately, your field of vision up in the sky, being able to move it around (assumedly?), and coherently processing all that information in your brain..? That's still something that you can believe if you commit yourself to it, but not everyone is going to be able to do that with the way that it works. And you should not, as an author, count solely on that. To make something that you know stretches the limits believable, you should anchor it to your world somehow. If you don't, it just shows that you're lazy and expect everyone to accept your weirdest ideas because you're the ultimate authority over the series. As Panda eloquently put it, the fact that it won't have any serious consequences within the series kind of renders it less significant and less of an important nitpick, but it's still out of place because it breaks the inherent coherence of how the world works. In Violet's case it's even worse because of the absolute geographical and physical implausibility that adds to the insult by making it stand out even more.

If it was possession of birds or living things, it would be okay because we have cultural knowledge of old Japanese beliefs that every existence has a soul and that those souls can possess things. We already have an in-series example of that in Brook. It would also have been okay if it was her sensing and accurately divining the positions of those spirits. That way it could also have been explained to be able to sense what those souls/spirits were thinking about or what kinds of existences they were. It would even be okay, albeit a bit hard to swallow, if it was her actually suspending a pair of ghost eyes on the sky, because that way the vision would at least be connected to something that makes sense as far as the world goes. But that's not how it works at all, it would seem. It's her being able to transfer her point of vision to any place within an enormous radius with complete freedom. You can't explain that. There's no way it's possible without also including some other action that makes it happen. And before that explanation is given, mere suspension of disbelief is not enough to account for that because it violates the laws that keep the card-house from collapsing. It might be to some, to be sure, but that doesn't make it any less disturbing from a logical point of view.

Supernova122

@Toraish:

…

This is a bit like crying out against someone using a crystal ball to see stuff far away. Or looking into a pond and seeing stuff far away. Or closing their eyes and seeing things far away. Or any of those really staple and commonly used abilities.

wolfwood

@CCC:

Still better than the spoiler thread.

4000 km > Flamey Mera Sanji gets leg cut off

I wish i could agree with you on that one

Dryish

@Supernova122:

This is a bit like crying out against someone using a crystal ball to see stuff far away. Or looking into a pond and seeing stuff far away. Or closing their eyes and seeing things far away. Or any of those really staple and commonly used abilities.

I have always hated every single one of those too, but the difference here is the fact that all those use a medium which the suspension of disbelief is concentrated onto. There's none of that sort here, and that makes it so alarming.

Apprentice

@DollarScholar:

No, they arent. He is the main villain of Dressrosa wich means that Luffy will defeat him. Sanji/Zoro has never been in the same league as a powerful main arc villain. we have seen them try and get stomped a few times.

Zoro-hody

But aside from that one cannon example I completely disagree with your statement and u can't change my mind unless you give me cannon examples. That's one of the things I've loved about one piece from the start is that sanji and zoro don't look like push overs compared to luffy.
Even way back in the arlong park arc it always felt like sanji or zoro could have taken arlong. Sanji whooped kurobi in about 15 seconds outside of the pool. I can't believe he would have had a harder time beating arlong than luffy had.

desa

@TheXDrake:

Possibly, but i don't think that's why he thinks Zoro is VC. Oda pretty much confirmed it here, Zoro is the VC.

Then you got an other idea of why he would say that and make the precision about it being his opinion.

Supernova122

@Toraish:

I have always hated every single one of those too, but the difference here is the fact that all those use a medium which the suspension of disbelief is concentrated onto. There's none of that sort here, and that makes it so alarming.

I don't really see why that's alarming … (and in the case of just closing one's eyes, where's the 'medium' there?)

But surely ... the sightbird? Like what was drawn in that panel? A little ghostly bird that zooms around and looks at stuff? Does that make it better?

Supernova122

@Apprentice:

Zoro-hody

But aside from that one cannon example I completely disagree with your statement and u can't change my mind unless you give me cannon examples. That's one of the things I've loved about one piece from the start is that sanji and zoro don't look like push overs compared to luffy.
Even way back in the arlong park arc it always felt like sanji or zoro could have taken arlong. Sanji whooped kurobi in about 15 seconds outside of the pool. I can't believe he would have had a harder time beating arlong than luffy had.

What the hell. You mean like how Zoro and Sanji went up against Arlong briefly and he beat them with water shots? You mean when Zoro slashed Arlong's nose and did NOTHING, then Luffy later bent it with his hands? You mean where we had Luffy say,
"I can't use a sword! I can't navigate either! I can't cook! I can't tell lies!"
"What can you do then?"
"I can beat you!"

That was the point. Luffy could beat Arlong and the others couldn't. If there was any arc one would use to show that the others can't trump the main villain, it's that one. How are you using it to the opposite effect?

wolfwood

The metaphor was about her possesing actual birds wasn't it?

The little spiritbird her power creates is real, and is what she uses to see with

CCC

literally, "I can project my 'line of sight' out as if I were borrowing the eyes of a bird"

There are no literal, real birds. I don't see what difference it makes whether the image of a bird we see is purely metaphor or actually a ghosty thing that other characters could see.

Dryish

@wolfwoof:

The metaphor was about her possesing actual birds wasn't it?

The little spiritbird is real, and what she uses to see with

Nah, read ~~a couple of pages back~~ the post above. CCC confirmed that it had nothing to do with real birds, just that she was speaking of her vision as being similar to possessing birds.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Which, mind you, would make her my enemy by default. So there's that.

DollarScholar

@Apprentice:

Zoro-hody

But aside from that one cannon example I completely disagree with your statement and u can't change my mind unless you give me cannon examples. That's one of the things I've loved about one piece from the start is that sanji and zoro don't look like push overs compared to luffy.
Even way back in the arlong park arc it always felt like sanji or zoro could have taken arlong. Sanji whooped kurobi in about 15 seconds outside of the pool. I can't believe he would have had a harder time beating arlong than luffy had.

Hody was just fodder to show how the SH had improved during the timeskip.

DD is one of the biggest names in the series. if SANJI can already fight with him on equal terms, i dont see how this manga can last 8-10 more years.

His kick didnt leave a scratch on DDs body. I have a prediction though in the upcoming confrontation with sanji, he will finally reveal what the name of his fruit, how it works and what it can do.

DollarScholar

Is there really a spoiler thread that tells whats going to happen or was that just a joke?

CCC

@Supernova122:

she seems to have some really weird grouping of powers rather than some one straightforward thing. Like she can make whale tears which have nothing to do with her power otherwise?

That's another pun. Her real power is the Oyaji Gyaggu no Mi.

@DollarScholar:

Is there really a spoiler thread that tells whats going to happen or was that just a joke?

huh? The spoiler thread did tell us every major thing that happened in this chapter. What exactly were you expecting?
Of course everything after the first post is a joke. It usually is.

kevo_koma

@Toraish:

Excellent points.

Could it be possible that its her utilising her ability to see peoples memories or feelings ingeniously? Like maybe she's chaining up everyone's point of view to be able to see whats happening, kind of like echo location. I just think that there has to be a connection between the two things and at least this would make it a little bit more plausible.

Kyoji Kagami

Why Violet didn't mention the events of Green Bit with her 4k km field of vision? Maybe the bird is still flying there? :P

I'm curious about 90% of what DoFlamingo says, but now I'm really really curious about the story of his life. Regain a country who used to be ruled by his ancestors, quit being a CD and start in piracy, gets status of warlord and yet being an underworld broker. Countries and other civilizations depends directly of his acts. I love this character and I agree he is the unofficial 5th Yonkou.

DollarScholar

@CCC:

That's another pun. Her real power is the Oyaji Gyaggu no Mi.

huh? The spoiler thread did tell us every major thing that happened in this chapter. What exactly were you expecting?
Of course everything after the first post is a joke. It usually is.

I was talking about the post talking about a spoiler thread confirming that Sanji will lose his leg

wolfwood

@CCC:

literally, "I can project my 'line of sight' out as if I were borrowing the eyes of a bird"

There are no literal, real birds. I don't see what difference it makes whether the image of a bird we see is purely metaphor or actually a ghosty thing that other characters could see.

Well even i would be bothered if she just looked up into space and was like oh there's Spain, now i'm in London

But as long as it's a manifestation of her powers that leaves her eyes that she can guide anywhere that makes perfect sense

Oh god now i'm doing it. I must get away from this violet madness

Cyclone_Baroness

@DollarScholar:

Sanji losing an arm instead of his trademark leg would actually be pretty cool. it would affect his character in general with the exception of battles.

This is the New World. You should not expect people to go through it without getting a few scars, or losing a limb or two. wooden legs and such is classic pirate stuff.

Sanji is a chef first fighter second. Losing an arm would be ridiculous. Their hands are much more precious than their legs. :ninja:

Dryish

@kevo_koma:

Could it be possible that its her utilising her ability to see peoples memories or feelings ingeniously? Like maybe she's chaining up everyone's point of view to be able to see whats happening, kind of like echo location. I just think that there has to be a connection between the two things and at least this would make it a little bit more plausible.

Well, we can shape up endless theories about how her ability works because there certainly are possible explanations to cover the whole scope of what she's able to do, but the big point that I'm trying to make is that as long as the author himself doesn't do that we're wholly dependent on our own willingness to believe. And that's not generally speaking a very good way of writing stories. Especially if he never clarifies it and we'll be left with a seemingly broken ability forever.

We're lucky that we're talking about Oda, though. I expect this to be something that some SBS later down the line will expound on.

wolfwood

Why stop there. Why not have them all lose limbs, that'll scare some adventure into those kids reading at home

Uncanny Cyke

This is a manga, so i think it every single thing doesn't have to make sense lol. Or maybe that's just me, I don't overanalyze some things that doesn't need to be overanalyzed. :p

desa

@DollarScholar:

Hody was just fodder to show how the SH had improved during the timeskip.

DD is one of the biggest names in the series. if SANJI can already fight with him on equal terms, i dont see how this manga can last 8-10 more years.

His kick didnt leave a scratch on DDs body. I have a prediction though in the upcoming confrontation with sanji, he will finally reveal what the name of his fruit, how it works and what it can do.

To have a decent fight with Doflamingo for a couple of minutes Sanji don't need to be as strong as him.

ponx

@Kyoji:

Why Violet didn't mention the events of Green Bit with her 4k km field of vision? Maybe the bird is still flying there? :P

I'm curious about 90% of what DoFlamingo says, but now I'm really really curious about the story of his life. Regain a country who used to be ruled by his ancestors, quit being a CD and start in piracy, gets status of warlord and yet being an underworld broker. Countries and other civilizations depends directly of his acts. I love this character and I agree he is the unofficial 5th Yonkou.

Well, here's where I find it weird. DoFla's speech says something about "bloodline" and "fate". It suggests that even though he does have a Tenryuubito bloodline, fate made him lose that title. It really makes me wonder if the "Bastard son of a Tenryuubito" theory is correct. But then, why is he allowed to keep the DonQuixote surname?

kevo_koma

@Kyoji:

Why Violet didn't mention the events of Green Bit with her 4k km field of vision? Maybe the bird is still flying there? :P

I'm curious about 90% of what DoFlamingo says, but now I'm really really curious about the story of his life. Regain a country who used to be ruled by his ancestors, quit being a CD and start in piracy, gets status of warlord and yet being an underworld broker. Countries and other civilizations depends directly of his acts. I love this character and I agree he is the unofficial 5th Yonkou.

I don't think she can hear, just see.

Actually now that I've seen you list it down, could it be possible that he's been accumulating wealth, strenght and influence so that he somehow wages war against the world nobles? Especially if the theory that he's modified smiles to be able to mind control the users is true, it would mean that he would have his army, plus two Yonkou's armies and probably the countries the other Yonkou's rule, plus his spies in the marines could prevent the marines form helping the nobles and also turn other marines to his cause.

square

@desa:

Leg are his style and arms are his cooking skills. He ain't going to loose them. Up to now we saw only two active pirates missing limbs and one was by choice.. So it really is an uncommon thing among the pirates anyways.

Assuming you're talking about Zeff and Shanks, you're missing a few examples. Namely Crocodile, Kidd, and… well I guess Aokiji isn't a pirate. Kidd is pretty much the best example of the "New World being more serious" thing.

kevo_koma

@ponx:

Well, here's where I find it weird. DoFla's speech says something about "bloodline" and "fate". It suggests that even though he does have a Tenryuubito bloodline, fate made him lose that title. It really makes me wonder if the "Bastard son of a Tenryuubito" theory is correct. But then, why is he allowed to keep the DonQuixote surname?

I read it more as him raging against bloodlines and destiny. Like someone used to tell him that its his destiny and its in his blood to do whatever and he finally called bullshit and left. They probably tried to make him do crazy shit that he didn't like(or maybe it was like Tyrion's situation when he was kid)

Apprentice

@Supernova122:

What the hell. You mean like how Zoro and Sanji went up against Arlong briefly and he beat them with water shots? You mean when Zoro slashed Arlong's nose and did NOTHING, then Luffy later bent it with his hands? You mean where we had Luffy say,
"I can't use a sword! I can't navigate either! I can't cook! I can't tell lies!"
"What can you do then?"
"I can beat you!"

That was the point. Luffy could beat Arlong and the others couldn't. If there was any arc one would use to show that the others can't trump the main villain, it's that one. How are you using it to the opposite effect?

You mean like how sanji and zoro went up against arlong after being very, SERIOUSLY, injured? And still managed to HOLD HIM OFF, the EXACT thing I'm arguing Sanji can do now. You mean like how zoro slashed arlongs nose with a crappy sword that he himself broke several of a few chapters beforehand? You mean how luffy AT FULL STRENGTH DID THAT? And I don't believe that the meaning of that speech was that he was THE ONLY ONE who can beat arlong but that he knows it's something he can do. Something he's GOOD AT. If you can give me more evidence that he meant more than that I will accept it.

Chicken

@wolfwoof:

Why stop there. Why not have them all lose limbs, that'll scare some adventure into those kids reading at home

Maju

maybe sanji will fight with law's support..the ship seems in range of law's room,so he can get on board and make it a 2 vs 1..if not 5 vs 1 if the others give their contribution..even though that make them targets for doflamingo.

desa

I wonder why Violet was acting strange since yesterday. When she was with Sanji she really didn't seem like someone thinking about betrayal.