Chapter 651 : "The Voice From The New World"

Neomaster121

Well i don't think i've posted in this thread

I must say i loved luffy declaring war and claiming fishman island as his turf

a the most free man in the world should be free to travel through fishman island as he pleases without worrying about yonkous who claim the island

loved the Luffy zoro sanji interaction i really hope for a lot more in future
Those goons aren't the ones to destroy the island as as big mom said she directed her attention to luffy so maybe she will order them to attack him but if she doesn't understimate him then i guess they won't be a fight

i see the confrontation in 3 arcs time next being marine hq then inbetween arc with either meeting kid or some other supernova then they 3rd being the yonkou fight

Chompp

@Katzztar:

It may not have been brought up in this thread but it the question of DF powers and hereditary has been brought up so much in various threads and fourns its pretty much a case of aggravation of the repetiviness when its brought up again.

They are not hereditary, so no, the DF powers are not passed down generation to generation, nor is there a "influence of ability" for the children. The DF powers affects the person that ate it. Period. When that person dies the DF power goes away.

So far we don't know what the Minkmen really are, but I brought up early in the thread and several others brought up separately that is possible that the Minkmen are these intelligent bipedal anthromorphics animals like Pekoms (lion) and Bebo (polar bear), and an unamed cat on Hawkins crew http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Hawkins_Pirates . If that is true, then knowing Oda, he will make the Minkmen as varied in species as he has the Fishmen. That would be too many species to have an ancestor that ate the Hito Hito no Mi. So no I don't think so.

Well, I haven't participated in any discussions about DF powers' hereditary so didn't know anything about it… And that last comment on the species variety is a good point, so I guess the theory is pretty much busted :P

But back to the FI arc: as much as I liked the part where Luffy promised to make FI his turf I have the gut feeling that he is going to do something that results fishmen migrating to the surface. Would it still be needed to have some one protecting fishmen after that?

@Coolnerd89:

Does anyone else think it's funny that Big Bmom looks nothing like what Garp hinted towards?
Look at chapter 432.

I think it has enough similarities to be somewhat recognizable. If you want something that looks nothing like the real things go back to look the shichibukai silhouettes :D

blue-san

@Superbear:

! http://img.mangastream.com/m/5/16037697/c79c4680c6fee1024187bed1b462f86d.png
Yep not intimidating at all. Seriously piss off, if you want "big tough guy" designs that are in just about every Shonen jump manga go read Bleach, or Naruto.

First of all you have obviously not read my post or could be simply failed to grasp the meaning behind it… or ...just the plain old gist of it.

Second, change the attitude cause really it brings out nothing constructive and I do feel you could have written something of that sort, if you had the energy to write what you did...

Big Mom

I was greatly pleased by Big Mom's appearence. I am glad she is a monster.

Superbear 22

@blue-san:

First of all you have obviously not read my post or could be simply failed to grasp the meaning behind it… or ...just the plain old gist of it.

Second, change the attitude cause really it brings out nothing constructive and I do feel you could have written something of that sort, if you had the energy to write what you did...

Oh so a post boiling down to "This is stupid it makes no sense" deserves a constructive post in return? Really? You give me the hypocritical boulder dash after you posted a comment on immaturely criticizing a character build that's been seen twice now (Bepo and Pappug) over the past hundred chapters. But you want me to have attitude and be civil? Try some of that yourself, before you try playing civility police.

Katzztar

@Chompp:

I think it has enough similarities to be somewhat recognizable. If you want something that looks nothing like the real things go back to look the shichibukai silhouettes :D

lol I remember that!! All the silhouettes looked normal sized

Jabra

@Katzztar:

lol I remember that!! All the silhouettes looked normal sized

Not only that, they basically all looked like Mihawk clones^^

!

Big Mom

^ I can't tell who is who

Leobreacker

@Big:

^ I can't tell who is who

Except for Mihawk XD

squishiejade

Agreed, LOL. The shaded figures are epic hilarious nowadays, because they look absolutely nothing like the Shichibukai we know now.

Leobreacker

@squishiejade:

Agreed, LOL. The shaded figures are epic hilarious nowadays, because they look absolutely nothing like the Shichibukai we know now.

Imagine the people who just started watching One Piece, and when they come across that scene, they will think all of them are sword wielders lol.

Big Mom

Boy, they are in for a big surprise.

asm00200

So, Jinbe is gonna die in four days, huh?

Though, seriously, anyone think we'll be introduced to how to navigate the new world by Big Mom crew?

blue-san

@asm00200:

So, Jinbe is gonna die in four days, huh?

Though, seriously, anyone think we'll be introduced to how to navigate the new world by Big Mom crew?

Well although it is hard to speculate at this point, I am thinking along the lines: SH's go to the NW alone not together with the 2 guys from BM's crew they just met. Also it just may be that after this fiasco with Big Mom Jinbe could tag along and perhaps share the info, if presumably he has one to share.

Just my thoughts and take

asm00200

Well, I was more talking about introducing the tool they use (a new log pose or whatever) to travel between islands. A similar way to how we first got the log pose in Reverse Mountain.

I don't think they'll travel together either, and I'm pretty sure they have a eternal pose to Cake Island. And I highly doubt the SH will go there or that there will be any confrontation with Big Mom.

Katzztar

@Leobreacker:

Imagine the people who just started watching One Piece, and when they come across that scene, they will think all of them are sword wielders lol.

@Big:

Boy, they are in for a big surprise.

It's similar to how people just starting to get into One Piece and think the solo covers of the chapters (not the mini-stories) are part
of the story and think that the early crew can use swords thanks to these images =
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ch70.jpg
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:310.jpg

On that note the same goes for if people just getting into One Piece and know nothing about see the Strong World Movie, they'll think all the Strawhats uses guns on a regular basis (thats the first and only time i saw a gun in Zoro's hands) thanks to that one scene wher the invade Shiki's srtonghold http://www.zerochan.net/640319

Tjalling

anyone no one?

big mom…...

sorry for the interuption =P

Supernademan

@Katzztar:

lol I remember that!! All the silhouettes looked normal sized

Though there is an in story explaniation the makes since, since it was told by johnny or yosaku (forgot which one) it could be his interpritaion of what they look like since the grand line was built up to a mysterious place fraught with danger. So he probably didnt see them..

sag d seb

I think I haven't replied to this thread yet.

And since we've got some time to spare, I'm gonna use it to hand out a little theory of mine after reading this chapter.

As I see it, everything is bubbling up with the jigsaw pieces fitting nicely in what's going to be one of the most important events in the early seccond half of OP. You may ask "what event?" to which I reply FI destruction; indeed one incident will lead to another which represent a higher peril to the Isle. Ultimately, I believe that FI will be destroyed indirectly by Luffy after he had made it his turf. MY guess is as follows.

1. A long history of racial tension brings up and about the NFP
2. Luffy deals with them proving to the FI denizens that he's their friend
3. To thank him they offer a banquet, one of which no one has seen (including BM's candies)
–--
So far those are historical facts along with the destruction of the factory by Daruma and Luffy's feasting on sweets. Now...

4. BM won't attack FI but luffy directly.However, in the end whether by luffy kicking her ass up to the moon or she giving the Island out of gratitude (if indeed she has sthing to do with lola) is pretty much hinted at.Thus, FI will be Luffys first conquered island.

Now, three external factors come into play.

a) Tenryubito still see fishfolks as slave material
b) there's a legendary weapon in the form of a colosal nyngyo down there
c) A not so liked character with the power to burn fire is the new fleet admiral

Add the resentment and determination that Sakasuki has towards dragon's family, and a loose and running caribou with XXX rated info and you get all the materials needed to destroy the Island. If you're looking for a purpose I see two strategical advantages for the tenryubito and the WG if FI gets demolished.

It would be easier to get merfolk if they didn't live near the devil 10000 meters below the surface.
Again, as long as she can speak to Sea kings and isn't caught off guard it is pretty unlikely that Weakhoshi will face major trouble at the oceanfloor. Take her to the surface and that's a different story altogether.

So my bets are that once Luffy gains power over the Island and Shirahoshi's secret leaks out... hell's going to run loose from two sides... tenryubito and marines..leading to FI destruction..

EDIT: But why is Luffy guilty?

Firstly, he was the one to awaken shirahoshi's powers, and to top that of he will be the protector of the island; that spells luffy all over the place even if he isn't the intelectual artificer of the cataclism to come...

I got a bit carried away, but I wanted to share my take on the story as it is now .. Peace!!

senor

How long will it take to fix Noah? 3 or 4 days minimum? I guess it depends on how much damage. Ok so bear with me for a second.
Noah is fixed in 4 days, Big Mom's 'tea party' is in 4 days. i dont know why they match up, i guess they dont have to it's just a possibility. If Luffy claims FI as his territory, he has to hold up his end of the bargain and protect it. this goes against everything Luffy wants and would mess up his adventure. Now, if it happens to be revealed that the purpose of Noah is to take fishpeople on a pilgrimage of sorts to the rest of the world, (strong ones to New world, less strong to paradise), then there would be no need for FI any more. Sure it is a great area as it has lots of traffic, but there are as many bad parts of that as there are good. Im kind of all over the place here, but if Luffy destroys FI after everyone has left it does two main things. 1) He no longer needs to protect it. 2) It fulfills Shirley's prophecy. Remember that EVERYTHING Oda shows / tells us is relevant so I'm sure reverie will have some role to play in all this. maybe that's part of what jinbe wants to do?

Also another point that is less pertinent is that the WG / Marines know that Luffy went to FI. There is a big possibility that they are waiting for him on the other side of the red line. (depending on the geography of the NW, we dont really know yet)

nefra

Maybe we will have an mini arc like the filler one form anime ( when they came down form the skypiea)

redon

One Piece New Year 2012 Omake (japanese version), thanks Vicissitude.

MasterKingJC

Hmmm, I wonder what's up with that raccoon drawing in the last panel?

I bet it's related to Chopper somehow.

Big Mom

How long before we see the Big Mom vs Luffy fight?

RomanceDawn

@Big:

How long before we see the Big Mom vs Luffy fight?

I say at least 3 island arcs, 5 at the most before they reach her island. We'll see what actually happens but it's all complete guess work. Still though the precedent was how they got involved with a War Lord the moment they stepped foot into the Grand Line. This appears to be our New World Baroque Works.

But if the whole 4 day's tea time is Oda's way of giving us a time frame then maybe less islands to deal with first. Since Log Poses work differently they could probably sail directly too her, but that seems to be unlikely.

Demonicpoodle

@Big:

How long before we see the Big Mom vs Luffy fight?

It's really unpredictable at this point. It would be safe to bet at least 100 chapters though.

All depends on how prominent/powerful Oda decides to make the Vice Admirals and if the Straw Hats will take some down before a Yonkou (I hope this happens).
And all of the other things left up for grabs, like the remaining WB pirates (if some of them are hostile now or defected), Supernovas, Smoker, Coby, Doflamingo's underlings…
And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

I'd say if Oda wants to make any of the above and more a threat, they need to fight a Yonkou later rather than sooner.
That of course means the fight with Big Mom will be all the more epic and anticipated, though.

Big Mom

I agree. If Luffy defeats Big Mom soon, then all the other opponents, the Shichibukai, Vice Admirals, hell even the Admirals, former WB pirates, and really anyone besides Shanks, BB, Akainu, and Kaidou will be less threats unless they team up.

Unless, what about Kidd and Luffy teaming up on Big Mom?

Also, if their fight will be during the Tea Party, then it should be soonish since it is only 4 days away.

Demonicpoodle

@Big:

I agree. If Luffy defeats Big Mom soon, then all the other opponents, the Shichibukai, Vice Admirals, hell even the Admirals, former WB pirates, and really anyone besides Shanks, BB, Akainu, and Kaidou will be less threats unless they team up.

Unless, what about Kidd and Luffy teaming up on Big Mom?

Also, if their fight will be during the Tea Party, then it should be soonish since it is only 4 days away.

That tea party is throwing everything off for me lol. Didn't even consider it. Hmmm… Time does pass in One Piece incrementally (disregarding 2 year skip, Water 7 did this the most I think), but single days in this series can reallllly stretch out, Fishman Island being one example. Blah, I dunno. This makes it seem like it WILL be soon, unless they're thrown right into an arc after this and don't have time to rest.

That Kidd/Luffy team-up does sound pretty likely, as he was even mentioned in the chapter that Big Mom made her official appearance, and Oda loves tying things together. Sounds plausible to me. And he already has a grudge against her, to boot. Maybe Big Mom's how he got his new battle scars.

squishiejade

@Demonicpoodle:

That Kidd/Luffy team-up does sound pretty likely, as he was even mentioned in the chapter that Big Mom made her official appearance, and Oda loves tying things together. Sounds plausible to me. And he already has a grudge against her, to boot. Maybe Big Mom's how he got his new battle scars.

For me, I don't think a team-up between Kidd and Luffy is likely because didn't Kidd considered Luffy as his rival, one that Kidd would love to take out? I remember Kidd saying that, at the war in Marineford. Where in the chapter that said that Kidd had a grudge against Big Mom? I doubt Kidd have a grudge against Big Mom anyway. He was most likely causing hell and chaos in New World, against pretty much everyone.

Big Mom

It could be anywhere from 50-500 chapters before Big Mom fight.

squishiejade

500 chapters? Hell, no. Jeez, that'll be like, more than 10 years of waiting for Big Mom and Luffy's fight. It had been, what, 13 years since One Piece was first released? There are 651 chapters right now. So saying 500 chapters would be like saying we have to wait 10 years for it. Honestly, I would hate that. My estimate? 50-200 chapters before Big Mom and Luffy's fight is a lot more likely.

Baou Zakurga

Even if I repeat myself,I'll still say it:

Tea party's gonna be used to introduce Big mom and her crew.Unlike the other yonkous,we know little about her and her rep is tiny compared to Shanks and Whitebeard,both of who's been in the manga for years and are both connected to Roger.

And it's three days non-stop travel.So u less your so called 'pre-big mom arcs' involve random banter in the Sunny,the tea party isn't going to be the event where the battle takes place.

An it's not like Big mon lives there,he obviously has flagship,so she does traveling.She's just in cake island for te tea party.

Baou Zakurga

This post is deleted!

BobLoblaw

My question is now that Luffy's declared war on Big Mom, what will Tamago and Pekoms do. BM has seemingly already blown off the whole compromise involving the SHs treasure, but she also told Luffy to come to the NW. Is she not even going to have her two subordinates try to fight him? Does she think that little of their abilities to take him on?

andy

@Big:

I agree. If Luffy defeats Big Mom soon, then all the other opponents, the Shichibukai, Vice Admirals, hell even the Admirals, former WB pirates, and really anyone besides Shanks, BB, Akainu, and Kaidou will be less threats unless they team up.

Unless, what about Kidd and Luffy teaming up on Big Mom?

Also, if their fight will be during the Tea Party, then it should be soonish since it is only 4 days away.

Nonsense even if Luffy beats Big Mom soon there other people who we don't know there powers that could be problems for him .
Just because he beat Big Mom don't mean can beat Kizaru , Doflamingo etc etc plus whoever else we might meet later on .
Luffy beat Croc few fights later he then had to push him self to limit vs Lucci who is a totally different opponent

Point is him beating someone really stronger early on do not take away anything from other characters.

squishiejade

@BobLoblaw:

My question is now that Luffy's declared war on Big Mom, what will Tamago and Pekoms do. BM has seemingly already blown off the whole compromise involving the SHs treasure, but she also told Luffy to come to the NW. Is she not even going to have her two subordinates try to fight him? Does she think that little of their abilities to take him on?

Perhaps she know that Tamago and Pekoms are too weak to take on the SH pirates. Or maybe they are not fighters, but are just messengers for taking the tributes from the islands.

dondondodo

@squishiejade:

Perhaps she know that Tamago and Pekoms are too weak to take on the SH pirates. Or maybe they are not fighters, but are just messengers for taking the tributes from the islands.

Their introduction boxes stated that they were fighters. :O

Big Mom

@andy:

Nonsense even if Luffy beats Big Mom soon there other people who we don't know there powers that could be problems for him .
Just because he beat Big Mom don't mean can beat Kizaru , Doflamingo etc etc plus whoever else we might meet later on .
Luffy beat Croc few fights later he then had to push him self to limit vs Lucci who is a totally different opponent

Point is him beating someone really stronger early on do not take away anything from other characters.

But if Yonko is equivalent to Strongest Pirate, then all the other pirates, former or not, should be weaker than her. In addition to that, the Admirals would obviously be weaker than her, or else she would have been captured.

ON2BetterThangz

@dondondodo:

Their introduction boxes stated that they were fighters. :O

She obviously thinks highly of Luffy since he is pretty famous and is Garp's grandson who she obviously knows personally or has fought. Of course I think they'll fight but she wouldn't expect them to win. She'll probably say something along the lines of "Leave him alone for now I want to take him down personally"!

Shuhan

@dondondodo:

Their introduction boxes stated that they were fighters. :O

That Hammond guy was also introduced as a fighter…see how that worked out...

ON2BetterThangz

@Big:

But if Yonko is equivalent to Strongest Pirate, then all the other pirates, former or not, should be weaker than her. In addition to that, the Admirals would obviously be weaker than her, or else she would have been captured.

Alot of things can happen in a fight look at Moria's situation. He had them beat but Luffy still won. Pirates won't let him have the title of Yonkou until he beats wave after wave of pirates or takes all of her territory. In fact since the yonkou are challenged by rookies all the time he'll probably still have to deal with them occasionally. Luffys not the only bold pirate on the sea. Just like there are always contenders for admiral they're always Contenders for Younkou. The world isn't so small to think that other pirates won't be a challenge for Luffy after he becomes a yonkou.

dondondodo

@Shuhan:

That Hammond guy was also introduced as a fighter…see how that worked out...

I would expect that because Big Mom is a Yonkou her "fighters" are far superior to the NFP.
But, I still don't think they'll end up fighting Luffy's crew.

Shuhan

@Big:

But if Yonko is equivalent to Strongest Pirate, then all the other pirates, former or not, should be weaker than her. In addition to that, the Admirals would obviously be weaker than her, or else she would have been captured.

If you want to look at this logically, just because they have a title like Yonko or Shichibukai, that doesn't necessarily notate strength. If we are to believe what happened to Buggy and he is a Shichibukai, wouldn't that prove that titles are a little like bounties. They just show how notorious you are. The only reason Buggy would be considered for Shichibukai was because he was a shipmate of Shanks and served under Rodger. If they knew how weak he really was, they would probably drop him. (this is of course leaning on the opinion that he is Shichibukai, but right now it's serving my point).

It all goes to how notorious you are, that's about it…Strength is important, but your actions speak volumes to your danger level.

Big Mom

@ON2BetterThangz:

Alot of things can happen in a fight look at Moria's situation. He had them beat but Luffy still won. Pirates won't let him have the title of Yonkou until he beats wave after wave of pirates or takes all of her territory. In fact since the yonkou are challenged by rookies all the time he'll probably still have to deal with them occasionally. Luffys not the only bold pirate on the sea. Just like there are always contenders for admiral they're always Contenders for Younkou. The world isn't so small to think that other pirates won't be a challenge for Luffy after he becomes a yonkou.

Except the Yonkou probably have never lost before.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Shuhan:

If you want to look at this logically, just because they have a title like Yonko or Shichibukai, that doesn't necessarily notate strength. If we are to believe what happened to Buggy and he is a Shichibukai, wouldn't that prove that titles are a little like bounties. They just show how notorious you are. The only reason Buggy would be considered for Shichibukai was because he was a shipmate of Shanks and served under Rodger. If they knew how weak he really was, they would probably drop him. (this is of course leaning on the opinion that he is Shichibukai, but right now it's serving my point).

It all goes to how notorious you are, that's about it…Strength is important, but your actions speak volumes to your danger level.

Except Buggy hasn't been confirmed to be a Shichibukai so your argument doesn't mean anything

thewonderer

@Shuhan:

If you want to look at this logically, just because they have a title like Yonko or Shichibukai, that doesn't necessarily notate strength. If we are to believe what happened to Buggy and he is a Shichibukai, wouldn't that prove that titles are a little like bounties. They just show how notorious you are. The only reason Buggy would be considered for Shichibukai was because he was a shipmate of Shanks and served under Rodger. If they knew how weak he really was, they would probably drop him. (this is of course leaning on the opinion that he is Shichibukai, but right now it's serving my point).

It all goes to how notorious you are, that's about it…Strength is important, but your actions speak volumes to your danger level.

Yonkou does denote strength though.

Its been stated that the yonkou keep each other in check. As in they keep each other from becoming too powerful. That seals it in my book. Big Mom clearly is probably not stronger than Whitebeard or Shanks but has something that pulls them and Kaidou back.

BUT…..theres something to be taken into consideration. Its been 2 years....the strongest pirate is gone. Big Mom may have let herself go somehow. But this is something I also can't really believe because if shes weak why wouldn't Blackbeard take her territory?

Big Mom

Also, the WG stated that only the Yonko could stop Blackbeard after the Marineford Arc. This indicates strength as well.

andy

@Big:

But if Yonko is equivalent to Strongest Pirate, then all the other pirates, former or not, should be weaker than her. In addition to that, the Admirals would obviously be weaker than her, or else she would have been captured.

I don't see how the admirals not able to capture her makes them weaker than her , did you see how much marines it took to fight WB and it was on there own home turf .
A Admiral just can go by him self and fight her he has to worry about her crew ,allies , where they are fighting , how much men he needs etc etc .
Then there also the WG that don't like to destroy the power balance of the world .

Akainu fought the strongest man in the world and deal heavy damage to him , some might say he get beat but he was up and running a short while later killing pirates.
Show how strong the admirals are and they are to be feared .

andre

Big Mom isn't weak, this shouldn't even have to be discussed.

Big Mom

Again, the WG stated that only the Yonko could stop Blackbeard. If there was someone stronger than the Yonko, they would have been mentioned too. This means that the Admirals, Shichibukai, and everyone else are below the Yonko.

Theloneookami13

You know i've been wondering this for a while. if Luffy Beats Big Mam does that mean That Luffy would be Considered A Yonkou?