Before you all freak out, "General Discussion: THE STORY" and my old "The Writing Process: Discussion & Tips" have been merged. I'll post brennen's original post here:
Ok, not a story at all, I just thought you guys should have a general discussion thread. More importantly, I needed a thread to post in and didn't want to hijack one or create my own. Sigh, the burdens of being an admin.
So, I'm going to sticky this so general chat can be aggregated here rather than taking away from the other topic-oriented threads such as monthly and whatnot, but if you all are against the idea… well, I guess I can delete the thread later. I imagine nobody has complaints though? Good. For outsiders, feel free to use this as a Question/Answer section; for insiders, feel free to chat or ask for general suggestions or tips for... stuff, like, I dunno, maybe ideas you haven't yet framed into a story. Writer stuff, you know? But seriously, I have some questions:
1.) Is there anything you wanted stickied while you have my attention?
2.) How active is this section, really? Do you think you need a moderator? Do you want to elect one?
3.) If for nothing else, a moderator could make news postings for the monthly-writing. Interested still?
4.) Why do I suck at writing?Moving on.
I suck at writing. To be continued.
So yeah, the two threads were very similar and a few people thought they should have been merged. I respectfully requested to keep the first post to continue info dumping. However, the codes of conduct within brennen's thread were a little more loose so feel free to go by those rules rather than the guidelines outlined in mine.
Also, I hope we didn't do anything illegal by thread-jacking an admin.~
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The Writing Process: Discussion & Tips
! Because I have no clue how to explain things better than through enumerated questions pertaining to the context of said current subject, I'm going to explain things through enumerated questions (with answers, oh ho) pertaining to the context of said current subject.
! >! What is this thread?
! >!Instead of what this thread is, the purpose of this thread is to A) stimulate discussion on the writing process and gather perspective by looking into the creative minds of the participants and B) provide help to writers both fresh and seasoned. Frankly put, this is a general writing thread. Not so general to the point where we'd be discussing current, known writers or our favorite books but instead the writing process itself.
! Rather, if there's an aspect of the writing process you feel strongly about then this would be the place to share your views and possibly even discuss/debate that perspective. In addition, this place doubles as a helping center for writers looking to sharpen their skills by gathering a more organized opinion. If our discussions go well or a writer steps up and adds in their own helpful tips then I'll keep the first post updated to reflect this help and provide general articles that people may want to refer to during their time writing or reading.
! Follow whatever brennen said.~
! How should I post in this thread?
! >!I think it should go without saying that you should be respectful so I won't get into that point. If you'd like to discuss something with other writers that pertain to the writing process then you'd come here and talk about it. Like for instance, you could come here and ask, "What makes a good character?" That would definitely stir up an entire conversation. Or, perhaps you think you know what a good character is. In that case, you'd come here and tell us what it is and then we'd proceed to either agree or disagree with you, thus stimulating conversation.
! Also, don't be afraid to cite examples in your discussions. I know I said earlier that this thread isn't so general that we'd be discussing our favorite books or whatever but what I meant by that is that you shouldn't make it the concentration of your discussion. If it pertains to the context of your argument on the writing process then by all means. Just don't make this about any specific work. This is a point that is very easily misconstrued so be careful when you do so.
! Here, if you'd also like, you can present a sample of your work for a quick review or to give us an example of whatever it is you're going for or need help with. In this, don't feel insulted if we seemingly tear it to shreds. I don't think anyone here is going to have a personal vendetta against you so you should take the majority of opinions here as constructive criticism. And sometimes, even if you write really well, if what you're going for doesn't land with a lot of people then maybe you should consider editing or rewriting. It's always a good thing to gather perspective especially during work like this.
! Also whatever brennen said.~
! Huh, there actually weren't as many questions as I originally thought there'd be. It would be arrogant of me if I continued this thread with enumerated questions because the following section is the helping portion and quite frankly, I'm not the best writer alive so everything I outline can't be indisputable. In fact, even if I were the best writer I would still encourage people to speak up and share their opinions.
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! Writing
! (I'm totally going to keep doing the enumerated question thing.)
! >! What makes a good character?
! >! In terms of main or major characters and even in terms of secondaries (though not necessarily sides), a good character would be one that lends to the story and adds something to it. It is possible for a character to be complex without being a strong character in that it doesn't affect the outcome, direction or even context of the story. In this instance, I would recommend avoiding fleshing out your characters unless they're going to add something to the story overall. Even what you would presume to be minor, just so long as it at least fits the context of the themes then that would be a fairly decent character.
! For example, if your character drinks a lot, has an abusive past and grows as a character ultimately giving up all their horrible deeds and becoming an upstanding samaritan when the theme of your story is… bunnies... that probably isn't a good character. At least not in the context of whatever story you're writing. In which case, they shouldn't be in your story at all. No one denies that it's a complex and maybe even interesting and awesome character but they have to belong to the story to at least some degree.
! And if they do nail belonging to the story then that's when you must determine how significant this character is going to be. If you give a lot of screen time to a character, please do the readers a huge favor and make them interesting. One of the most unsatisfying things you can do for a reader is make a major character show up from the beginning to the end and then they're just… the same character. Nothing learned, no struggle, no clear development, nothing. And bare this in mind because a lot of people love to think this way, actions are NOT development. Learning a new power isn't development. Washing clothes isn't development. Repeating the same formulaic storyline of a previous arc but just dressing it differently isn't development.
! You should never concentrate so much on the "what" a character is doing but rather "why" the character is doing it. And even when you go so far as to make that your concentration, does it matter? You don't want to repeat yourself or plateau development. We, as people, grow all the time and learn new things from our experiences. Sometimes we may even change perspectives. It's quite possible that during my conversations here, my perspectives on the writing process will change. So when you write a character that's pretty much thinking, "Same old, same old", you're not giving your readers much of an incentive to give a shit about them.
! But also keep in mind that spotlight has a lot to do with how much a character should develop. If it's the main character then they probably shouldn't be changing perspective every two seconds and being completely in flux. You have to be mindful of the reader and give them some stability. But at the same time they should be influencing the plot and moving shit along, gradually developing as they go. Likewise, if a character isn't going to be in for the long-haul then you probably shouldn't give them any extended concentration or present the illusion that they're significant unless they influence the direction of the plot and serve to extenuate the main characters. - Uncle Kenny
! What is the "through line"?
! >! A "through line" is basically like the spine that your writing follows, and it's kind of what ties everything in your work together. It's most obvious in argumentative writing where you should be arguing for a particular point. If you lose sight of that, your work goes off on a ridiculous tangent and you might not even be arguing what you started with. It's something that plagues me all the time, and that's what happens when you don't have a through line.
! Basically, as long as you have a beginning, middle, and end, you've got a through line. Almost. Your story could be… Fox lives in a village and goes on an adventure -> Fox winds up opposing the Raccoon Army who is trying to destory the world -> Fox becomes a rabbit to defeat the Raccoon Army Leader. Sure you've got a beginning, middle, and end here. But that Act 3 is rather... disjointed isn't it? You can't really have that. Just having a beginning, middle, and end isn't enough.
! The beginning is the defining stage. This isn't just about defining the characters and setting, but also about defining what is at stake in the middle, and also defining the final conflict. All great stories kind of have this full circle element to them, and that's because the ending should be directly rooted to the beginning.
! The middle is the transitioning stage. Here, you're developing plot threads that build a kind of bridge between the first and third act.
! The end finally should take what happens in the transition stage and look at directly how it impacts the defining stage to create the resolution stage. The climax should have some rooting in the opening chapters.
! So I'm just discussing basic plot structure? Well, yeah, but the importance of this is that the "through line" is what keeps everything on track. You don't have to be obvious to the reader, but you have to have this destination in mind from the outset and the "through line" is basically that.
! So if Fox is going to be a rabbit to beat the final boss, you might need to litter some rabbits along the way. Foreshadow. Yeah. - Kitsune Inferno
! Phew… You know what? I really want to go on and write a lot more but I'm tired right now and I'll just do so later. This post is eventually going to get ridiculously long so feel free to just add your input for now and discuss things or ask questions.
