No one was saying ships can get through the red line whether or not it is a cliff it probably has more cities elsewhere that people can cross. That is the main point being made here. To think a random citizen has to go through the grand line from east blue just to get to north blue is extremely inconvenient. The entire red line probably has inhabitants, so an individual just has to get a new boat no matter what part of it they cross.
[Theory] The Inherited Will, "One Piece"
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So no rivers between the Blues? Though I kinda believe Oda would have gone with the 10.000m high wall around the world just to make the Blues more separate, but it's hard to discuss something as big as the Red Line when we only have a bit of info (the parts in the GL).Just like MK and my sig says, there is no fighting this:
[hide]
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Oh, how much you like to spin it, you piece of shit.
I'M spinning lol? Let's go over the current point of contention again.
You are saying lines on a map, with numbers next to them, indicating height. Do not indicate height.
lol
Basically you're an idiot that only call out names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocline_(geology)#Fold_tightnessYou….you're trying to claim those lines are geological and not elevation.
And you're accusing ME of spinning lollll.Why the FUCK would a navigational map indicate fucking folds ahahaha, or please do explain the numbers of the map in OP.
The lines called "Isocline" do not mean how high a place is unless they have a number next to it.
1. There ARE numbers next to them. You can't see them in the scan, don't you own Volume 12?
2. Oda isn't a geographer, he's not going to perfectly mimick a map accurately, mostly because he doesn't need to since it is BLINDINGLY obvious that a navigational map, for people traveling over locations is going to indicate ELEVATION and not some bullshit about rocks that doesn't mean anything.What YOU need to show ME, you wildly spinning moron who can't admit wrong even once, is a map, zoomed out that far from rl, showing goddamn rock folds.
The only represent areas with the same altitude.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Cntr-map-1.jpg/300px-Cntr-map-1.jpgThose are exactly exactly what Oda is drawing with his map. Topographic maps.
You're absolute insane, and completely alone, and absurdly stubborn, to argue it's ROCK FOLDS.If you would have really studied geography and cartography instead of selling yourself as a smartass, you would have learned that a map without numbers near the lines is useless.
How retarded are you to think Oda would draw an accurate map ahahahha.
If you had really, I dunno, lived on planet earth. You would have normal human conceptions like…
"Oh this comic book artist drew a cartoon topographic map :)"
"As a rational normal person I do not expect it to follow all the guidelines of the real thing :)"
"I understand as a normal person, that it is merely his cartoon representation of such a thing :)"
"And that clearly the intention is to just show HERE A MOUNTAIN :)"I don't know what the fuck is broken upstairs that you don't comprehend all four of those sentences.
Unless it really is you're that stupidly stubborn to admit wrong.
I mean seriously, ROCK FOLDS??? lolllllSo, mr monkeyass, what you see in the OnePiece map shown by Nami, is not an area at sea level, but just a plain area, at a certain undetermined high, since there are no numbers to state the heigth.
No it's definitely an area at sea level lol.
If Oda had wanted to show it wasn't, he would have drawn more cartoon topographic lines along the coast, like he did for the area we DO see, around Reverse Mountain. And several other parts.A steep, vertical high (that admittedly could exist only in a comic)
You're KIDDING right?? Where the fuck do you live, Iowa?? Steep verticle highs exist irl XD ahahahahaha
I drive by one damn near every day!!!
http://www.cityprofile.com/forum/attachments/connecticut/16249-hamden-west-rock-ridge-state-park-2.jpg
And oh yes I've looked at maps of New Haven with topography, and oh yes this (and other similar) areas are indicated on the map lol.
And this is a super tame example too.
The Red Line obviously takes it to an extreme extent, but wow, you don't know that steep cliff walls exist. My god.doesn't need need crunched lines, only one is needed, there's a thing called scale that is every cartographer's friend.
Go study please.ahahahahahaha, so you DON'T know how to read topographic maps XD. They don't suddenly jump heights lollll, that is NOT done.
You never go from 300 to 1000. The lines of 400-900 or whatever will be present and crunched up really close. That crunchness is exactly what indicates steepness.
What an unbelievable guy you are, acting like you did know all this shit.Anyway we're arguing over a very approximate map,
We're arguing over a basic cartoon map that Oda probably assumed little eight year olds would even be able to parse as seeing "oh there is tall stuff in those areas".
in which you find things that haven't been said yet.
Hey! I know a thing that hasn't been said yet.
"Red Line is uniformly monsterously tall across it's entire length".
That thing, that thing has never been said ever even once.
And yet, for no reason at all, for years on end people just assumed that.
Now most good folks, they see the evidence and drop it because really, who cares.
But you are apparently a very special breed.As of now the Red Line is a Rock wall, with different altitudes and a big plateau and no beaches.
Point is ship can't pass through it.Point is it's easily crossable even right just next to Reverse Mountain on foot. And that probably canals could be made and I bet have been.
That just like real life, there's no goddamn tyranny involved with something you can't sail over.
There is zero reason to assume it's a huge wall everythere, literally nor reason at all just to begin with.Oh and by the way, the whole incredibly spin filled argument you're making?
Your basically saying "Oh Luffy's ear isn't exactly anatomically accurate, so it's could just be a festering open wound of some sort rather than an ear". That's exactly what you're doing with this ROCK SLOPE nonsense.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I didn't had the time to go check my volume, Italian version, so I don't know if the numbers have been cleaned for editing purposes or not.
You can somehow read the numbers in some scanlations.
One seems to be a 200 with a 4th character I can't understand.
The point is that without a legend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_(map)#Map_symbology explaining what's the scale we don't know if that's meters, yards, kilometers, miles, apples.We do know it is [HEIGHT OF SOME KIND] though, fancy that.
Oh and the lack of lines near the coast above that of course. Because a lack of lines on a topographic map, even a simple cartoon one. Shouldn't indicate much in the way of notable height. And DEFINITELY NOT THIS lollll.The flawed part is also that the map has one side of the Reverse Mountain without isoclines.
Gee did you notice where that was? Why it appears to be at the part near the end of the Grand Line, where Raftel would be near.
I do believe Mr. Oda might be suggesting it is unexplored but I dunno!NOW it's OBVIOUS that the map in a comic is to give an idea and must be pretty clear and not clusterf'ked with stuff so it would be reasonable to take the map as a sketchy version of the World and not as a Truthfact.
So not rock slopes for no reason basically.
So far the Red Line has no beaches, and we only saw this high steep vertical rocks.
So far…SO FAR, we've only seen it twice!!! In extremely specific areas! Both bordering the Grand Line! One of which has an accompanying map showing very obviously height near there. You can't conclude jack shit.
If you landed on Asia twice and found cliff walls would you be able to conclude it was cliffs all over lollll? This is a continent going around the entire world. Why would you ever assume based on that.The steep rock wall concept makes totally sense since it would be a natural protection for the Tenryubitou cities on the Red Line, think like a medieval castle with his moat (the 4 Blues) and the wall (Red Line)
WHAT Tenryubito cities on the Red Line.
There's only one city we've ever ever been told about. Mariejois, which DOES sit on top of a really tall part.
Now you're really just making up stuff lol.So I get pissed because MK wants to force down our throat this concept that Red Line is something different than what we have been shown by Oda.
WE HAVE BEEN SHOWN BY ODA THIS
Oh! And also THIS. From Data Book Blue! -
Geez MK, you so fail at reading it's pointless.
I wrote that i's a cartoonish map, and that's why it's stupid to argue.By the way.
I don't have real time to spent hours arguing with you, so I'll stick to some basic points.
Isoclines, are heigth lines. Period.
We both got that.
Numbers, again, without a legend irl they wouldn't mean anything because of lack of scale, that's why a 500 meters steep could be possibly indicated with only one line if the legend marks that you have a line every 500 meters.If you keep sticking to the accuracy of this map http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-101/page-4 then you admit one side of Reverse Mountain is totally, missing, which we both know it's not.
If something, both if Raftel is an island or a piece of Red Line, it is not flat and at sea level
About the Tenryubito cities, you're right, we have only been shown one, though…what else is on the Red Line? Such a big mass with only one city...bah
Maybe yes, maybe not.
If not...well, why? That would be an interesting question to say the least.
I strongly doubt that the Tenryubito would allow cities of common citizens on their same piece of land.
The heigth of Red Line is not only geographical, but also a metaphore to show how the Tenryubito stands against the people of the Seas.It's a legend, though...why FisherTiger climbed the RedLine instead of taking an easy route?
The map you have shown...it's a really old map, after which some concept might or might not have changed.
We know Oda planned everything well, but he could just have adjusted something along the lines.Also...Nami's dream and skills, to draw all the maps in the World, since her maps are the best standing to Arlong's saying.
That means that there are maps, but they're not THAT accurate.We've been shown the Red Line 2 times and 2 times it's a Rock Wall, if it wouldn't have been a rock wall, it would be easier to attack...dunno...kind of fail the purpose of being there imho.
Though so far, 2 times shown, against one map...the Red Line is a rock wall.About the folds...sorry, I put a wrong link and didn't realize. Dumb stuff. I apologize.
I searched the article in Italian, asked a redirect to the English version of the article and got a bad link.
My stupidity for not checking.Proud Kintama Owner 
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Geez MK, you so fail at reading it's pointless.
I wrote that i's a cartoonish map, and that's why it's stupid to argue.Do you not know what a cartoon is lol?
It's a caricature basically. A simplified representation.
R-e-p-r-e-s-e-n-t-a-t-i-o-n.
That means it not realistic, but also that it's not just random meaningless bullshit.
So Oda drew a simplified topographic map.
So…..my point stands exactly.By the way.
I don't have real time to spent hours arguing with you, so I'll stick to some basic points.ahahaha that's an old line
I almost miss when I used to actually be capable to be bothered by that lol. I'm gonna be over the other side of the Adriatic son, busy as a motherfucker.
Oh also it doesn't take hours, how slow do you type exactly (or think lol).Isoclines, are heigth lines. Period.
No they aren't. They're a type of mathmatic line system with consistently holding lines. They are usually used to measure stuff for obvious reasons.
And they're useful for geographers to use as they do regarding topography. Did you read your own link?Numbers, again, without a legend irl they wouldn't mean anything because of lack of scale, that's why a 500 meters steep could be possibly indicated with only one line if the legend marks that you have a line every 500 meters.
Except Oda didn't even use a single line on those coasts. Not a single one! Notice how he DID crunch the lines up really tight around the Reverse Mountain border with the Grand Line. So he's paying that much attention yeah.
Again I'm not saying that the flat area of the Red Line is some steppe region. But it's untroublingly elevated. Like you could easily get off a boat and walk around. Not civilization stoppingly massive walls lol.
If you keep sticking to the accuracy of this map http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-101/page-4 then you admit one side of Reverse Mountain is totally, missing, which we both know it's not.
I already explained that lolll (you didn't read my post did you).
Look at it, seriously. How dense are you.
It's the area near where Raftel is. On that side facing the Grand Line. Oda left it blank for a reaaaaaly obvious reason. -_-If something, both if Raftel is an island or a piece of Red Line, it is not flat and at sea level
http://enciclopediaopsdr.altervista.org/OPSdR/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Raftel.jpgRaftel is an island. But that whole end area of the Grand Line should be considered unexplored. Only one crew having reached it, who probably didn't take down cartographic data, let alone on mountain behind the island lol.
About the Tenryubito cities, you're right, we have only been shown one, though…what else is on the Red Line? Such a big mass with only one city...bah
Maybe yes, maybe not.The dumb assumption isn't that there aren't more cities. It's that those cities would have to be Tenryubito populated. I have no idea why you think that.
I strongly doubt that the Tenryubito would allow cities of common citizens on their same piece of land.
They live up on top of a huge mountain wall area. Their need to be separated from the rest of humanity is more than taken care of.
The heigth of Red Line is not only geographical, but also a metaphore to show how the Tenryubito stands against the people of the Seas.
Reminder: The Red Line is only high in certain areas.
It's a legend, though…why FisherTiger climbed the RedLine instead of taking an easy route?
Are you thinking at all? If it's super tall in one spot along the Red Line, that means it's super tall no matter what side you approach it…. you would have to climb it from all directions.... for all we know he DID climb it after getting on a flatter area of Red Line.
The map you have shown…it's a really old map, after which some concept might or might not have changed.
THIS IS NOT A POINT.
We know Oda planned everything well, but he could just have adjusted something along the lines.
Wow you're grasping at straws now lollll
So now, all evidence being on my side. You only have a completely random guess that maybe this one time Oda changed his mind lolll.
Also…Nami's dream and skills, to draw all the maps in the World, since her maps are the best standing to Arlong's saying.
That means that there are maps, but they're not THAT accurate.So you're saying the mapmakers just didn't notice the massive rock wall and just completely made up the topography.
I've really cornered you haven't I.
Hey, here's what you do. You don't even have to make a post saying you're wrong. You just stop replying.We've been shown the Red Line 2 times and 2 times it's a Rock Wall, if it wouldn't have been a rock wall, it would be easier to attack…dunno...kind of fail the purpose of being there imho.
What does attacking the Red Line have to do with anything at all. What are you even talking about.
Though so far, 2 times shown, against one map…the Red Line is a rock wall.
They aren't conflicting datas you moron. Look at those maps. The area we saw on the maps ARE tall and mountainous.
Nothing is conflicting. -
Pointless pointless pointless, since neither of us will change its minds.
You do really have much more time than I have to be arguing with you and a stubborness that I find boring.
You're a troll that has fun in that…I just like to discuss even bullshit and having fun with civil people, the likes of which you're not
Think the fuck you want, keep thinking your beaches on the Red Line and have fun.
Oda never chenged anything...along the the story, not even the composition of the StrawHats, not even Chopper's face or other stuff.
But you'll find a spin for that.
One day if the Red Line has beaches, for which you don't have proofs except a cartoonish map, expect my apologies, so far...screw yourself.Proud Kintama Owner 
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Pointless pointless pointless, since neither of us will change its minds.
You do really have much more time than I have to be arguing with you and a stubborness that I find boring.
You're a troll that has fun in that…I just like to discuss even bullshit and having fun with civil people, the likes of which you're not
Think the fuck you want, keep thinking your beaches on the Red Line and have fun.
Oda never chenged anything...along the the story, not even the composition of the StrawHats, not even Chopper's face or other stuff.Wait he DID change that you moron lollll.
God that just symbolizes everything about your little trainwreck in here.
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Lol i think that shandora is realy the AK homeland.Btw did you ever noticed that dragon has a tatoo the same as people from shandora.
1.dragon is against WG
2.the AK was against the 20 kingdoms Aka WG
3.dragon has tatoo just like the people on skypia shandora
4.shandora was in the void century -
Pointless pointless pointless, since neither of us will change its minds.
You do really have much more time than I have to be arguing with you and a stubborness that I find boring.
You're a troll that has fun in that…I just like to discuss even bullshit and having fun with civil people, the likes of which you're not
Think the fuck you want, keep thinking your beaches on the Red Line and have fun.
Oda never chenged anything...along the the story, not even the composition of the StrawHats, not even Chopper's face or other stuff.
But you'll find a spin for that.
One day if the Red Line has beaches, for which you don't have proofs except a cartoonish map, expect my apologies, so far...screw yourself.Are you that incredibly naive to think Oda had most of OP story, characters, etc. set in stone since the beginning of the series? or that he doesn't make any changes along the way? Just look at how different some of the characters' physical appeareances are from his first sketches.
naruto was WAY MORE KICKASS after the timeskip
i mean to show his badassness, him and sakura managed to get the bell from kakashi. beating pacifista's is so lame compared to that awesomeness
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Lol i think that shandora is realy the AK homeland.
If that were the case don't you think…
1. The Poneglyph there would be like the ultimate one? Rather than one saying where Poseidon is?
2. Don't you think the civilization of Shandora is pretty....tiny and pretty primitive looking for whatever the AK would likely have been?
3. Don't you think the WG would control the island? It's not like Jaya was remotely hard to get to or anything, there was zero presence of anything like that at all. No WG presence either in Norland's time or the present.As it stands there's really no way this is the case. Shandora was likely an ally or some such to the AK, or maybe one city it had of many.
Btw did you ever noticed that dragon has a tatoo the same as people from shandora.
No he doesn't…,unless you're saying that them both having tattoos makes them connected...which is dumb.
I also noticed that Dragon didn't have that tattoo 20 years ago in Chapter 0. -
1. The Poneglyph there would be like the ultimate one? Rather than one saying where Poseidon is?
Content wise, it’s nothing unique compared to others. But don’t you think it’s a bit fishy that Roger decided to leave his massage there? out of all places? He could have left it on arabasta, FI, or somewhere else, instead on something that has been missing for 400 years and couldn’t be reached by any mean but flying.
He didn’t even tell the shandorians nor the skypieans. It’s like he didn’t want the massage to be found at all…
2. Don't you think the civilization of Shandora is pretty….tiny and pretty primitive looking for whatever the AK would likely have been?
Shandora won the great war 800 years ago for a huge price : their own downfall. We have yet to know the detail but obviously, they barely winning… What we’ve seen of Shandora 400 years ago might only be 10% or less of their glorious time.
3. Don't you think the WG would control the island? It's not like Jaya was remotely hard to get to or anything, there was zero presence of anything like that at all. No WG presence either in Norland's time or the present.
Maybe because they didn’t pose any significant threat anymore?
They didn't seem to know much about their ancestors. They didn't even know the reason for protecting the poneglyph (not even Calgara). Not to mention their hostile behaviour towards outsiders, it’s like a natural defense for any hidden truth there.
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there're already shown the map of AK and shandora, it's not hard to tell those two are different island
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Are you that incredibly naive to think Oda had most of OP story, characters, etc. set in stone since the beginning of the series? or that he doesn't make any changes along the way? Just look at how different some of the characters' physical appeareances are from his first sketches.
It's sarcasm.
Read well the last posts please and you'll realize I'm saying that he had changed stuff; it's mr. Monkey that says Oda has everything set in stone, old maps included.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Content wise, it’s nothing unique compared to others. But don’t you think it’s a bit fishy that Roger decided to leave his massage there? out of all places? He could have left it on arabasta, FI, or somewhere else, instead on something that has been missing for 400 years and couldn’t be reached by any mean but flying.
He didn’t even tell the shandorians nor the skypieans. It’s like he didn’t want the massage to be found at all…
Shandora won the great war 800 years ago for a huge price : their own downfall. We have yet to know the detail but obviously, they barely winning… What we’ve seen of Shandora 400 years ago might only be 10% or less of their glorious time.
Maybe because they didn’t pose any significant threat anymore?
They didn't seem to know much about their ancestors. They didn't even know the reason for protecting the poneglyph (not even Calgara). Not to mention their hostile behaviour towards outsiders, it’s like a natural defense for any hidden truth there.
Marijoia allowed Noland to go on the second trip to Jaya.
Finding a glyph would have been a matter of interest for the WG.
Though glyph can't be destroyed, so, at the end of the day, it was good for the WG that the glyph on the belfry went missing. -
Content wise, it’s nothing unique compared to others. But don’t you think it’s a bit fishy that Roger decided to leave his massage there? out of all places? He could have left it on arabasta, FI, or somewhere else, instead on something that has been missing for 400 years and couldn’t be reached by any mean but flying.
Are you asking do I think this means that Shandora is THE ancient city, because let me repeat firmly, No.
Shandora won the great war 800 years ago for a huge price : their own downfall. We have yet to know the detail but obviously, they barely winning… What we’ve seen of Shandora 400 years ago might only be 10% or less of their glorious time.
We know they also mention being entrusted to defend the message, not the ancient civilization. What we saw was very primitive looking. What are you suggesting lol, that only the Old City district survived the battle lol?
Maybe because they didn’t pose any significant threat anymore?
Alright now you're just not trying lol.
The entire concept of the Ancient Civilization is a firmly kept secret.
If this is the core of that civilization it would have been ground zero for the war, ground zero for efforts to hide it. It should be crawling with information and so forth.
This is the same WG who wiped out Ohara for less, and you're suggesting this.
You are not trying.They didn't seem to know much about their ancestors.
Probably because their ancestors weren't the AK themselves so their was much less to know.
They didn't even know the reason for protecting the poneglyph (not even Calgara). Not to mention their hostile behaviour towards outsiders, it’s like a natural defense for any hidden truth there.
So by this logic Alabasta is ALSO the Ancient Kingdom.
We have a very old kingdom that in some form or another pre-dated the Void Century, it has a poneglyph entrusted to them, they protect it and have been entrusted to do so by their ancestors, they react with horror when an outsider infringes on this.
Oh wait except Alabasta has even better claim due to having Pluton in it, rather than just a Poneglyph. -
@Monkey:
We know they also mention being entrusted to defend the message, not the ancient civilization. What we saw was very primitive looking. What are you suggesting lol, that only the Old City district survived the battle lol?
I'm suggesting that Shandora probably were not as primitive as we've seen. You saw those moon pictures, Shandorians were one of the supposed descendants of Bilcan, them being primitive were clearly out of place. The war or something else must have greatly affected their civilizaton way. Unless you're saying that those pictures of robots and stuff were inaccurate or completely irrelevant to shandora's past (which I highly doubt).
If this is the core of that civilization it would have been ground zero for the war, ground zero for efforts to hide it. It should be crawling with information and so forth.
should it? the WG wiped out an entire hundred years of world history, leaving no traces but the indestructible poneglyphs. Shandora should be no exception on this matter. That would also explain why Calgara and others didn't seem to have any journal or such of their ancestors.
also, Shandora won the war for a reason. Something must have been preventing outsiders from taking full control of it.
So by this logic Alabasta is ALSO the Ancient Kingdom.
except Arabasta didn't collapsed 800 years ago.
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I'm suggesting that Shandora probably were not as primitive as we've seen.
And I'm saying the city of Shandora is still clearly not technologically advanced as a creation or any such thing. That is the same city that was defended in the Void Century war.
You saw those moon pictures, Shandorians were one of the supposed descendants of Bilcan, them being primitive were clearly out of place.
Them being primitive makes as much sense as the Skypieans and Blikans being what they were. All the people who came down from the moon clearly lost contact with their past, both in the sense of technology and knowing about it. What matters is the ruins of Shandora, those are from the Void Century, and they are utterly unremarkable technologically.
The war or something else must have greatly affected their civilizaton way. Unless you're saying that those pictures of robots and stuff were inaccurate or completely irrelevant to shandora's past (which I highly doubt).
They aren't from the Void Century, which is what we're talking about.
should it?
Yeah generally capitals and centers of Political entities, generally have like important things regarding that entity in them.
Is this really something you deny?the WG wiped out an entire hundred years of world history, leaving no traces but the indestructible poneglyphs. Shandora should be no exception on this matter. That would also explain why Calgara and others didn't seem to have any journal or such of their ancestors.
There would be WAY the fuck more in the AK capital than one poneglyph lol.
And more importantly, the people wouldn't be fucking left there. They'd be wiped out or mass imprisoned, or at the least forced to move. You're saying that the WG was more lenient on Jaya than Ohara, that's just dumb.
Also hi, verbal history exists, which is why it makes a million times more sense that the Shandorans were an ally, most likely a backwater one to the AK. Than the AK themselves.also, Shandora won the war for a reason. Something must have been preventing outsiders from taking full control of it.
The history was protected, they never mentioned winning a war. They also mentioned that they were nearly destroyed, that the city was basically rendered uninhabited. And that history is the Poneglyph in question. I mean really, did you just forget this chapter existed?
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-301/page-14
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-301/page-15
Look at what goes on Chapter 301.
The Shandians were protecting that Poneglyph so that it's message could be passed on to the people the AK wanted to read it.
Robin tells them they no longer have to protect it, that Roger most likely already fulfilled that end of things, and/or herself. At which point the chief breaks down crying about how they don't have to fight anymore. Robin then turns away from them to think about the Poneglyphs leading to the end of the Grand Line.
Do I really need to explain how many holes that blows in what you're trying to say?except Arabasta didn't collapsed 800 years ago.
Neither did Shandia…
We've so far seen three different very old entities, the Shandians, the Alabastans, and the Fishmen. Who have existed before the Void Century, and seem to have had Poneglyphs entrusted to them. The pattern you should be seeing here is the AK chose these locations for certain reasons. Not wildly guessing that any of them ARE the AK.If the AK were centered anywhere, Raftel is by far the most likely guess.
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@Monkey:
Them being primitive makes as much sense as the Skypieans and Blikans being what they were. All the people who came down from the moon clearly lost contact with their past, both in the sense of technology and knowing about it. What matters is the ruins of Shandora, those are from the Void Century, and they are utterly unremarkable technologically.
I don’t know inter planet migration could instantly cut your knowledge off.
They went to the blue sea for resources. The civilization might be rebuilt from scratch but with both their intelligence and earth’s resources, it shouldn’t be that hard to regain their prosperity. The timeline is still blurry though… Based on chapter 261, Shandora reached it's prosperity 1100 years ago, while the time of moon people's migration is unknown.
Yeah generally capitals and centers of Political entities, generally have like important things regarding that entity in them. Is this really something you deny?
I’m not denying it, but as Clover stated, The WG supposedlyhave wiped out every single information about the AK, particularly during void century. There should be very little to zero clues left out even on the ground zero, be it historical journal, monuments, tablets, or knowledgable people (so they couldn't pass their knowledge). Poneglyphs are made to fight this.
There would be WAY the fuck more in the AK capital than one poneglyph lol.
Why would you think that? Poneglyphs are meant to be hidden from most people, it would be too predictable for WG if they put more poneglyphs there. It also has been stated that the “Rio” itself couldn’t be achieved unless you link all of the scattered poneglyphs together.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-301/page-13
they never mentioned winning a war.
Oh they did.
http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/465/277/2u015.jpg
It was a fairly missable fact but they did won the war.
Neither did Shandia…
It was mentioned at least 2 times during skypiea arc.
http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/465/263/2u013.jpg
http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/465/292/2u011.jpgWe've so far seen three different very old entities, the Shandians, the Alabastans, and the Fishmen. Who have existed before the Void Century, and seem to have had Poneglyphs entrusted to them. The pattern you should be seeing here is the AK chose these locations for certain reasons. Not wildly guessing that any of them ARE the AK.
My point is neither Arabasta nor Fishmen were invaded and fell 800 years. Their past also didn’t suggest they could make something as advanced as the poneglyphs like winged people’s did.
If the AK were centered anywhere, Raftel is by far the most likely guess.
Raftel is indeed the easiest guess, but for now I like the idea of Shandora being the AK more.
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Hello. I am new, and I only read the first post and not all 26 pages of stuff here! I have a theory about Water 7, which I didn't see it mentioned in the original poster's theory, and I think it's a pretty interesting.
Well, something interesting I was thinking about while reading the Water 7 arc…at the end of the arc, Water 7 was sinking into the ocean. Iceburg decides he's going to do the impossible and convert all of Water 7 into a ship. Can you imagine a ship the size of an island? That has got to be the base of the great battleship Pluton. I bet we will come back to Water 7 in the future and convert Water 7 into Pluton haha. And throw the Mermaid Princess Shirahoshi/Poseidon in there too. She can have the Sea Kings pull Water 7/Pluton to its target. It's pure speculation though. haha
Bonus: Water 7 could even be the new Fishman Island. It's almost all accessible by water and canals, and half of it is already underwater, making it perfect for mermaids.
http://i.imgur.com/ODVJTg9.jpgRaftel is indeed the easiest guess, but for now I like the idea of Shandora being the AK more.
I don't think Shandora is AK, because they are protecting a poneglyph there. If AK really was destroyed, there shouldn't be anyone left to guard their poneglyph. Anyway, it seems too mundane for THE AK to have such a boring poneglyph. No, I think that Raftel is the former AK, and the Rio Poneglyph contains the Will of D. I also think the WG/marines are tightly guarding Raftel. Otherwise, it seems like in a sea of so many unstoppable pirates, Raftel would be a trivial task to get to. Instead, only Roger has ever set foot on Raftel to learn the secret of Void Centurys.
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I don’t know inter planet migration could instantly cut your knowledge off.
I'm implying that time and crisis did that, not the journey. You know, the basic building blocks of historical change in civilizations?
They went to the blue sea for resources.
The civilization might be rebuilt from scratch but with both their intelligence and earth’s resources, it shouldn’t be that hard to regain their prosperity.lol, yeah sure dude. It's a cinch when you have to uproot your entire civilization because of resource famine and resettle elsewhere. Piece of cake!
I’m not denying it, but as Clover stated, The WG supposedlyhave wiped out every single information about the AK, particularly during void century. There should be very little to zero clues left out even on the ground zero,
Except that the people there are still there, and still crowing about how they defended their history even if their city was destroyed.
be it historical journal, monuments, tablets, or knowledgable people (so they couldn't pass their knowledge). Poneglyphs are made to fight this.
The ENTIRE population would have to be wiped out for that. Are you not following? The WG doesn't want any trace of this AK left. That would involve the people living there. A population wouldn't continue on unmolested after such a battle. One they claim to have WON by the way! Pretty sure the AK did not win!
Again why are you arguing this? The Shandians are directly said to be guarding that one particular Poneglyph. It's glaringly friggin' obvious that this is their role in the AK story. They were entrusted with a Poneglyph, and their history since the Void Century has been to defend that Poneglyph, and Robin told them their duty was over, that they fulfilled that purpose.Why would you think that?
Maybe not literal Poneglyphs, but their LANGUAGE is what I mean. That script would be all the hell over the place. Any evidence at all linking that AK writing with Shandia would really help your case.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-301/page-13
Oh they did.They won a battle, not a war. They never mention a war, only that the city was under attack for the Poneglyph.
Which should ALSO suggest they are in no way shape or form the AK.
The AK was attacked and destroyed by it's enemies. The next step would be to wipe out their history, which would mean targeting the Poneglyphs. The battle in ancient Shandia was over the Poneglyph, not people trying to wipe out their civilization.
And in describing it as a single attack, it clearly makes it sound like one event. Not the kind of huge war that would involve 20 nations fighting a super Empire.
Also the AK clearly lost the war they were involved in lol. So how are they Shandia again?It was mentioned at least 2 times during skypiea arc.
http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/465/263/2u013.jpg
http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/465/292/2u011.jpgThe CITY was destroyed. The civilization was not. Otherwise who the heck do you even think the Shandians are?
My point is neither Arabasta nor Fishmen were invaded and fell 800 years.
We know something happened with Fishman Island in the Void Century regarding promises between people. Suggesting their involvement in the conflict that was going on.
And as for Alabasta, Cobra mentions a similar duty as the Shandian chief does. Though he seems to have been raised by the WG to view it the other way around. Like he's protecting ANYONE from getting at it, unlike the Shandians who want it to reach certain people.Their past also didn’t suggest they could make something as advanced as the poneglyphs like winged people’s did.
By that horrible argument, the Shandians are even LESS technologically advanced than Alabasta!
You cannot actually make an equivalence between the Moon People, and the Shandians. They aren't the same entity. Connected by history though they may be.
I also think you're thinking super small to think the only descendents of the Moon are the Shandians, Skypieans and Blikans of the modern day.Raftel is indeed the easiest guess, but for now I like the idea of Shandora being the AK more.
Christ, just look at the series for a half a damn second. You'd have to have the absolute smallest sense of scope, scale, and mystery to think Shandia is the big goddamn reveal for the mysterious Ancient Kingdom.
What the heck do you even think the D's are. Or other numerous ancient ruins we've seen here and there (like on Reverse Mountain). Or the absolute complete lack of Oda hinting that this was THE place, with character's like Robin and Roger making ZERO mention of any such possibility.
It's small and weak. It's a bad bad idea that doesn't fit at all. -
Can you imagine a ship the size of an island?
Moria's Thriller Bark was already the size of a small island, so Water 7 following that route isn't unthinkable at all.
It could be the future home of the Fishmen, though obviously Noah ties into that in some way.
I don't think the peacful city is itself going to become a weapon, however, let alone Pluton.
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Christ, just look at the series for a half a damn second. You'd have to have the absolute smallest sense of scope, scale, and mystery to think Shandia is the big goddamn reveal for the mysterious Ancient Kingdom.
Look, I said I like the idea more, doesn’t mean it ABSOLUTELY has to be revealed that way.
I’m completely aware of Raftel being a better guess, it was in fact the first thing came to my mind(and I believe a lot of other people’s) as soon as the AK intially mentioned. Though I immediately thought, would it be an interesting turn of event if the AK is a kingdom which has been appeared before? We had Villa(mentioned), Drum, Arabasta and Shandora pre Robin’s flashback. Arabasta and Shandora got a better chance for their poneglyphs. My bet eventually went to Shandora for reasons stated. On page 3 I did said it’s a bit farfetched idea… would like to see it came true if done right nonetheless. though Absolutely don’t mind with Raftel or any other possibility either.
You did bring some enlightment here but really, did you have to say in such hostile manner? I’m not the freaking one to decide where the story goes and neither are you. Seriously it’s something I always despise from this forum despite of being here for so long.
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I think people should consider Arabasta and Shandia as Ancient Kingdom's colonies or allies.
Not sure about Fishman Island that I see more as a protectorate–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You did bring some enlightment here but really, did you have to say in such hostile manner? I’m not the freaking one to decide where the story goes and neither are you. Seriously it’s something I always despise from this forum despite of being here for so long.
This, one millionth times, though it's mods and admin's fault.
That behaviour just make everything they say empty and shallow. -
Look, I said I like the idea more, doesn’t mean it ABSOLUTELY has to be revealed that way.
I’m completely aware of Raftel being a better guess, it was in fact the first thing came to my mind(and I believe a lot of other people’s) as soon as the AK intially mentioned. Though I immediately thought, would it be an interesting turn of event if the AK is a kingdom which has been appeared before? We had Villa(mentioned), Drum, Arabasta and Shandora pre Robin’s flashback. Arabasta and Shandora got a better chance for their poneglyphs. My bet eventually went to Shandora for reasons stated. On page 3 I did said it’s a bit farfetched idea… would like to see it came true if done right nonetheless. though Absolutely don’t mind with Raftel or any other possibility either.
You did bring some enlightment here but really, did you have to say in such hostile manner? I’m not the freaking one to decide where the story goes and neither are you. Seriously it’s something I always despise from this forum despite of being here for so long.
yo man, long time forum lurker here, and i gotta say you're theory is brilliant. i'm not quite sure if it'll pan out the way you said it would be, but man sounds good. monkey king is just one of the forums devil advocates, with the ego of an inflated hot air balloon. just ignore the hostility, and take it for what it is. he does pose good arguments.
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I was wondering why there's no glyph in Water7.
Iceburg said that Pluton was built in Water7 ages ago, so the city is connected to the Ancient Kingdom.
Strange it doesn't have a ponyglyph.Proud Kintama Owner 
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I was wondering why there's no glyph in Water7.
Iceburg said that Pluton was built in Water7 ages ago, so the city is connected to the Ancient Kingdom.
Strange it doesn't have a ponyglyph.Tom had the blueprints for pluton, i don't recall anything having been said about where it came from though.
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I was wondering why there's no glyph in Water7.
Iceburg said that Pluton was built in Water7 ages ago, so the city is connected to the Ancient Kingdom.
Strange it doesn't have a ponyglyph.i thought that the instruction to the construction of pluton are more than a glyph for water 7. plus ages ago might be less than 8 centuries. (who knows)
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I was wondering why there's no glyph in Water7.
Iceburg said that Pluton was built in Water7 ages ago, so the city is connected to the Ancient Kingdom.
Strange it doesn't have a ponyglyph.My guess would be that they didn't want to stuff too much in 1 place, they wanted to spread everything.
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Standing to Iceburg's explaination, Tom inherited the blueprints…
Anyway I wasn't remembering that Water7 is sinking, so hypotetically there could still be a glyph underwater that Robin wouldn't be able to see (unless the Mugiwaras get back to Water7 and use the submarine) -
Very believable, very epic and very awesome! I like this theory so much, but I hope Oda's real events are 1238192% more awesome!
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Grand Line is a wall
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2566-13/one-piece/chapter-459.htmlProud Kintama Owner 
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Red Line is a wall
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2566-13/one-piece/chapter-459.htmlRed Line is a giant wall, yes (at least in certain or even most areas).
We've known this for about 700 chapters by now… -
Grand Line is a wall
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2566-13/one-piece/chapter-459.htmllol you're using THAT as evidence that the Grand Line is a huge sky high wall on the entire length? You poor dumb idiot.
I don't even know where to begin.
Red Line is a wall, no one ever disputed that. It's a contiguous piece of land that goes around the entire world. It has a fairly basic line like shape, thus red LINE.
This pretty easily qualifies as a wall.
What your wonderful brilliance seems to be suggesting is that, being definable as a wall, means it is super tall. Because…I have no idea.Hey, I live in a part of the US called New England, and one of the things we are defined by is a ton of these walls just all over the place in the woods left over from colonial farmers digging up rocks in their field. Walls.
These are walls.
These are short as shit, you can even WALK over some of them without having to jump or hoist yourself over or anything like that. Yet walls they are, because they stick up, no matter how little from the ground.
Much like the Red Line sticks up, no matter how little or much, from the ocean, in it's wall like shape of a line.Give up already.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Red Line is a giant wall, yes (at least in certain or even most areas).
We've known this for about 700 chapters by now…Red Line is not a giant wall, no, only in some areas namely around the Grand Line so far as we're aware.
We've known this for about 700 chapters by now… -
@Monkey:
Red Line is not a giant wall, no, only in some areas namely around the Grand Line so far as we're aware.
We've known this for about 700 chapters by now…Forgive me. I didn't mean giant as in high (10.000 metres across the board). I just meant it as in very lengty, and very high in certain areas too.
Which actually brings me to the question, does giant have to mean big as in height? Does the Red Line - a wall which differs (greatly) in height but stretches out all across the globe - still classify as giant?
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@Monkey:
lol you're using THAT as evidence that the Grand Line is a huge sky high wall on the entire length? You poor dumb idiot.
I don't even know where to begin.
Red Line is a wall, no one ever disputed that. It's a contiguous piece of land that goes around the entire world. It has a fairly basic line like shape, thus red LINE.
This pretty easily qualifies as a wall.
What your wonderful brilliance seems to be suggesting is that, being definable as a wall, means it is super tall. Because…I have no idea.Hey, I live in a part of the US called New England, and one of the things we are defined by is a ton of these walls just all over the place in the woods left over from colonial farmers digging up rocks in their field. Walls.
These are walls.
These are short as shit, you can even WALK over some of them without having to jump or hoist yourself over or anything like that. Yet walls they are, because they stick up, no matter how little from the ground.
Much like the Red Line sticks up, no matter how little or much, from the ocean, in it's wall like shape of a line.Give up already.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Red Line is not a giant wall, no, only in some areas namely around the Grand Line so far as we're aware.
We've known this for about 700 chapters by now…Like I said many times, you're spinning it now that you see you're wrong.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2603-10/one-piece/chapter-496.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2603-11/one-piece/chapter-496.htmlAnd I expect your apologies.
You also said that if it was steep in the map we should have seen crammed heigth lines.
You can check what YOU typed there.
Or you can haste and edit like a coward.
So, as I said, the grand line is a plateau with some notable areas with big heights, like in the Marijoa area.A raised continent at least 200-300 meters above the water level (something that doesn't exist on Earth), not to mention the at least 10000 meters below the water surface does make the Red Line giant to say the least.
"Give up already" is the sentence you should have told your mum before she pooped you into the World.
Proud Kintama Owner 
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…is this silly argument about elevation levels STILL going? Hasn't it been like a month already?
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Just for the sake of it, i think it is safe to assume that the Red Line is 10,000m high wall where it matters most, i.e. in the grand line (reverse mountain and marijois) sections of it and a bit around. beyond those areas it wouldn't matter much i suppose.
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OP's theory doesn't explain why Roger and his crew kept silence…nothing changed in the running of society in past 20 years...just because they didn't have the ancient weapons to 'do the job' is not enough reason to speak nothing of....
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Like I said many times, you're spinning it now that you see you're wrong.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2603-10/one-piece/chapter-496.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2603-11/one-piece/chapter-496.htmlAre you spinning around in circles here? The Red Line being monsterously tall around the Grand Line was an established point of agreement from the start lol.
This goes for both Reverse Mountain and the crossing area where Mariejois is.
You haven't added a single new bit of information to the argument lol.You're back at square one arguing against the map I showed, and arguing against your blind stupid assumption regarding what we see around the Grand Line being true of the entire length for no reason.
You also said that if it was steep in the map we should have seen crammed heigth lines.
Yes and?
??So, as I said, the grand line is a plateau with some notable areas with big heights, like in the Marijoa area.
What on earth are you using to assert this as evidence lol.
not to mention the at least 10000 meters below the water surface does make the Red Line giant to say the least.
Uh….read the part where they go to Fishman Island again, they enter a trench to go deeper to get there. It's an area right near that one certain part that goes deeper than the normal sea floor.
You're really bad at this.
Oh something I just thought of :)
Sanji was born and raised in North Blue, and came to East Blue later.
Yet he's never been on the Grand Line prior to Vol. 12.
How did he do this thing I wonder :)–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Just for the sake of it, i think it is safe to assume that the Red Line is 10,000m high wall where it matters most, i.e. in the grand line (reverse mountain and marijois) sections of it and a bit around. beyond those areas it wouldn't matter much i suppose.
It matters a ton lol. You're not really thinking about the OP world's geography if you don't think it matters how easily East and North, and West and South, Blues have access to eachother.
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@Monkey:
It matters a ton lol. You're not really thinking about the OP world's geography if you don't think it matters how easily East and North, and West and South, Blues have access to eachother.
I don't want to argue about how the grandline is structured but until now we haven't had any indication that the layout of the blues has any importance in the story. This story is not really known for the geographical accuracy.
So I think it is rather useless to argue about it and everybody can believe whatever they want. There just isn't enough evidence to support any theories that include the geographical layout. -
I don't want to argue about how the grandline is structured but until now we haven't had any indication that the layout of the blues has any importance in the story.
You're doing Oda a really huge disservice in saying this.
This isn't some basic detail. Oda has obviously thought through the way people travel around the world through quite a lot, it figures majorly into the whole mystery of the Grand Line and it's traversal. It matters quite a bit these things.
How easy or not it is to travel from Blue to Blue figures majorly into how exactly Oda is characterizing Mariejois. If the Red Line was as the dunderheads such as Dalesthasar say, than Mariejois would probably control movement into EVERY sea. Rather than just potentially NorthEast into SouthWest.
Don't tell me Oda doesn't think about the political geography of his world to the extent that something like this won't be a big deal.This story is not really known for the geographical accuracy.
But it IS known for putting quite a bit of emphasis on it's own internal geography.
One Piece has always stood out from it's peers in having a very strong sense of space and place, as opposed to something like Naruto where the attention given to geography is next to zero. Even though (unlike Bleach) Naruto's story and world CALLED for it.
Oda is no fool.So I think it is rather useless to argue about it and everybody can believe whatever they want. There just isn't enough evidence to support any theories that include the geographical layout.
What on earth are you talking about? I've supplied ample evidence for my side.
And all he's provided is showing he doesn't know how to read maps, thinks the word wall means something is huge, and taking literally a basic pictoral explation image.Various maps Oda's actually drawn, regardless of them being accurate real maps, show Oda obviously thinks of the Red Line as he would any other island or piece of land, and that the extreme elevation only exists at certain points.
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@Monkey:
It matters a ton lol. You're not really thinking about the OP world's geography if you don't think it matters how easily East and North, and West and South, Blues have access to eachother.
well, we know that the red line is 10k meters tall at the end of paradise area (Merejois, FI and SA area and probably the Reverse Mountain area too) and we also know that despite the height people are able to go over the red line granted that they have the permission. This means that even if the red line is 10k meters tall all around people are able to go over it (somehow, we don't know how exactly yet though i'd imagine a crane), This even if it isn't 10K meters all around it wouldn't matter since people are able to go over it and since the whole red line is a single continuous land mass they'd have to abandon their ships anyway and get a new one on the other side. This is the access between the blues works. But there is still the slight mystery of how exactly people travel through the calm belts and grand line to reach north blue from west or east from south. i guess some Navy ships can do the trick of going through a calm belt but going through the grandline sounds difficult.
i don't really think that there is that much communication and trade between the blues bet then again we don't know enough to precisely conclude anything.
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@Monkey:
You're doing Oda a really huge disservice in saying this.
Don't tell me Oda doesn't think about the political geography of his world to the extent that something like this won't be a big deal.But until now it isn't and hasn't been. When the revolutionary army comes into play then we can talk again but Luffy himself won't really care about the other blues and the travel between them. And fact remains that he hasn't drawn a big stretch of the grandline as a fully functional georaphical map or has had anybody travel between the blues.
What on earth are you talking about? I've supplied ample evidence for my side.
And all he's provided is showing he doesn't know how to read maps, thinks the word wall means something is huge, and taking literally a basic pictoral explation image.Various maps Oda's actually drawn, regardless of them being accurate real maps, show Oda obviously thinks of the Red Line as he would any other island or piece of land, and that the extreme elevation only exists at certain points.
I just think that we have only like four pictures of the grandline and that hole-riddled map in chapter 100 and that is not enough to really support a theory on how the rest of the world uses the grandline between the blues. I also think that the grandline should be a normal continent between the blues but we don't know how it is actually perceived by the residents there.
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well, we know that the red line is 10k meters tall at the end of paradise area (Merejois, FI and SA area and probably the Reverse Mountain area too) and we also know that despite the height people are able to go over the red line granted that they have the permission. This means that even if the red line is 10k meters tall all around people are able to go over it (somehow, we don't know how exactly yet though i'd imagine a crane), This even if it isn't 10K meters all around it wouldn't matter since people are able to go over it and since the whole red line is a single continuous land mass they'd have to abandon their ships anyway and get a new one on the other side.
Have you ever heard of canals?
If there's basically low topography in some other parts of the Red Line, than traversal by ship between North and East blue, and between West and South blue, should be no huge issue. Also just visiting for any reason wouldn't be a major hassle as long as you weren't super tied to a specific ship. Not all people would have relationships with ships like the Strawhats, or pirates for that matter.
I'm basically saying that because topography is low in parts between North/East and South/West. That those pairs of blues are not really blocked from dealing with eachother without arbitration of the WG. If they HAVE to pass through Mariejois though they would be, which would still likely hold true for NorthEast people crossing to SouthWest and vice versa.The thing in series pointed out regarding Mariejois was mentioned as them controlling normal passage into the Grand Line (both directions), for an obviously saner route than Reverse Mountain. What people are wondering is how does this extend to inter-Blue travel.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But until now it isn't and hasn't been.
lol what the hell are you talking about. As long ago as Norland's flashback we had Oda mentioning that Mariejois controlled travel in and out of the Grand Line.
Add to this later the revelation that government ships have technology that allows them to cross the Calm Belts.
Add to this later EVERYTHING to do with getting into the New World. Once again highlighting government control of the Grand Line passage.
Add to this that Oda has always paid attention to issues of travel in regards to his strange world geography.
Add to this that Raftel is directly connected to the Lost History, and how that must tie into government control of the world's geography.
Add to this things like the giant bridge being built in East Blue…You aren't reading closely enough to be getting into this argument. You're not able to follow along.
Luffy himself won't
I don't give a shit about Luffy.
I'm talking about Oda.And fact remains that he hasn't drawn a big stretch of the grandline as a fully functional georaphical map or has had anybody travel between the blues.
What the fuck are you even talking about lol, none of this has anything to do with the conversation.
I just think that we have only like four pictures of the grandline and that hole-riddled map in chapter 100
There are no holes to that map. :wassat:
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I am only talking about the blues and their connection. Because that the grandline is seperated by the red line that was clearly shown. And therefore any geographical discussion of the redline only concerns the blues.
In my original statement I wanted to say that it doesn't matter how the redlines layout is because we won't see it unless the revolutonary army comes into play and therefore we should just stop talking about it until it matters. -
@Monkey:
Have you ever heard of canals?
If there's basically low topography in some other parts of the Red Line, than traversal by ship between North and East blue, and between West and South blue, should be no huge issue. Also just visiting for any reason wouldn't be a major hassle as long as you weren't super tied to a specific ship. Not all people would have relationships with ships like the Strawhats, or pirates for that matter.
I'm basically saying that because topography is low in parts between North/East and South/West. That those pairs of blues are not really blocked from dealing with eachother without arbitration of the WG. If they HAVE to pass through Mariejois though they would be, which would still likely hold true for NorthEast people crossing to SouthWest and vice versa.The thing in series pointed out regarding Mariejois was mentioned as them controlling normal passage into the Grand Line (both directions), for an obviously saner route than Reverse Mountain. What people are wondering is how does this extend to inter-Blue travel.
if the red line isn't 10,000m high all around then it is more then logical that canals exist. (if it is so, i suspect at least 2 major canals outside the grand line which fits because in our world we have 2 main canals). but the point is that if the red line is 10,000 m tall all around or not the travel between blues separated by the red line is completely possible. My question how would traders cross the grand line to get from North/East to South/west ?
Also, besides the marines, how would someone get out of the new world?
I am only talking about the blues and their connection. Because that the grandline is seperated by the red line that was clearly shown. And therefore any geographical discussion of the redline only concerns the blues.
In my original statement I wanted to say that it doesn't matter how the redlines layout is because we won't see it unless the revolutonary army comes into play and therefore we should just stop talking about it until it matters.Funny you mention the revolutionaries, if i recall correctly the have traveled from South blue (the country that was mentioned they have conquered) to East blue (the bridge robin was) which means the somehow went through the grand line. Additionally, before going to East Blue they planned to go to North blue so yeah… (no point here, just interesting)
btw, have anyone noticed the fact that both the Reverse Mountain and Marejois are winter islands? any meaning (or obscure Oda foreshadowing) in that detail?
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Pappug is your friend.
He says that you may cross the grand line asking the permission to the World Government, though you can't carry your ship but you have to buy a new one -
Pappug is your friend.
He says that you may cross the grand line asking the permission to the World Government, though you can't carry your ship but you have to buy a new oneYea we know, but that doesn't have to mean that the Red Line is 10,000 metres all across the board.
A ship is difficult enough to carry over land, and even if you had the means to do it, the Red Line is probably way too bumpy, mountainy and long to be able to carry it all across. -
Yea we know, but that doesn't have to mean that the Red Line is 10,000 metres all across the board.
A ship is difficult enough to carry over land, and even if you had the means to do it, the Red Line is probably way too bumpy, mountainy and long to be able to carry it all across.Indeed, that's why from the first time I said the Red Line is a plateau with higher regions and peaks.
Though, it's reasonable to discuss with some members with you in a polite way, while some others have to behave in a gross way insulting others. -
Indeed, that's why from the first time I said the Red Line is a plateau with higher regions and peaks.
Though, it's reasonable to discuss with some members with you in a polite way, while some others have to behave in a gross way insulting others.Oh I thought that you were of the view that the Red Line is 10,000 metres across the board and that MK was of the view that it has beaches in some areas and that it's mostly just a big landmass with some very high areas.
Well I can't pretend that I read and remembered everything carefully. -
I used the Tibet as an example to say that plateaus can exist at every heigth.
I for one think that the average heighth is surely no less than 200 meters.
