Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

Kurloz

So Sasuke had to be away because he needed to "track Kaguyas traces". Uh huh.

Someone already pointed this out but the super important mission definitely isn't a valid excuse for Sasuke never seeing or even ninja text messaging Sarada like Sakura was bullshitting to the kid about. Naruto was hokage when Sasuke decided to go on the mission. Naruto wasn't hokage by the final scene of The Last when he already had 2 kids who were past the toddler stage; Sarada would've been the same age as Bolt. Either Studio Pierrot screwed up or Sasuke is just terrible.

jazzflower92

@Kurloz:

Someone already pointed this out but the super important mission definitely isn't a valid excuse for Sasuke never seeing or even ninja text messaging Sarada like Sakura was bullshitting to the kid about. Naruto was hokage when Sasuke decided to go on the mission. Naruto wasn't hokage by the final scene of The Last when he already had 2 kids who were past the toddler stage; Sarada would've been the same age as Bolt. Either Studio Pierrot screwed up or Sasuke is just terrible.

He's been terrible ever since Naruto Shippuden happened.

Kurloz

@jazzflower92:

He's been terrible ever since Naruto Shippuden happened.

I mean a new level of terrible.

Razh

Don't really understand why setting the story up like this was neccessary. Just creates numerous problems. Sasuke could have just as easilly visited a couple of times and sent letters and stuff.

Then one day, Salad enters puberty and develops Sharingan. At the same time she discovers that picture (or not, since it was pretty lame idea). She wants to know more about her dad, ask him why his mission requires him to be away all the time, wants to learn how to use Sharingan. Full of questions. She hears Naruto goes to meet him, decides to follow. Sasuke doesn't have to be (that much of a) dick in this version.

Nobodyman

Just face it guys. It's Shonen law that all dads must be terrible.

Even if you have to go against character and create numerous plotholes to make it so.

jazzflower92

@Nobodyman:

Just face it guys. It's Shonen law that all dads must be terrible.

Even if you have to go against character and create numerous plotholes to make it so.

At least Dragon, helped his son escape being beheaded.

.access timeco.

One of the things I want to see the most in shonen is a terrible mother. Like unexcusably terrible, like Finn's father with a vagina.

Green_vs_Red

@jazzflower92:

At least Dragon, helped his son escape being beheaded.

But for him it was a rainy day

killerbee1000

Well, that's one way to connect with your child: being a total dick. But, that's Sasuke for you.

Green_vs_Red

@Daz:

Kishimoto has adapted the very worst aspects of serialized storytelling

"Say, I think I'll introduce a new villain,

Kaguya wasn't new though she mentioned all the way back in part 1 long before the sage of six path was, it's just that at no point in time beforehand was it mentioned she was evil and was the woman behind the man behind the man.

Razh

I realized this Bigger Bad scenario reminded me of something I've read, seen, played and it just came to me now.

! Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

Whats more, I think I even joked about it like 2 years ago, how Kaguya is actually a good girl (misunderstood), and the rest of her race are bad guys that are going to come from space some day.

maxterdexter

@Nobodyman:

Just face it guys. It's Shonen law that all dads must be terrible.

Even if you have to go against character and create numerous plotholes to make it so.

Damnit, Naruto is like the best shonen dad (as in a main character is a father)

Vegeta is good only when compared to Goku, and you must discount the time that he risked everything for a fight in order to have any positive balance, I'm sure gintoki would be better, and of the strawhats Franky and Usopp at least, probably Sanji.

I think that Only Kenshin was a remotely good parent. Yoh was terrible, Yusuke wasn't shown but it's practicaly implied that he'd be just like gin. Bakuman duo were going to be just mangaka fathers (too little time with the kids).

Nobodyman

@.access:

One of the things I want to see the most in shonen is a terrible mother. Like unexcusably terrible, like Finn's father with a vagina.

Well, there's Kill la Kill. Also, Medusa from Soul Eater.

desa

I actually think Goku was a good dad. He just had some crazy circumstances in his life. Of course there's that time he spent a year in space to learn a technique…

maxterdexter

@Nobodyman:

Well, there's Kill la Kill. Also, Medusa from Soul Eater.

Hakuryu's mother from Magi is pretty messed up.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@desa:

I actually think Goku was a good dad. He just had some crazy circumstances in his life. Of course there's that time he spent a year in space to learn a technique…

The abridged series is seriously affecting me with this, but yeah, his main crimes were the yardrat year, letting gohan fight cell, and not wanting to be revived the 2th time (the logic was pretty flimsy)

LordPerucho

Is it true there will be another Manga after the Boruto movie? And this is just like a prologue to the movie?

Kurloz

@Green_vs_Red:

Kaguya wasn't new though she mentioned all the way back in part 1 long before the sage of six path was.

16charsof The hell? When?

TheBuzzcocks

@LordPerucho:

Is it true there will be another Manga after the Boruto movie? And this is just like a prologue to the movie?

part three is inevitable at this point to me, whether in manga for or anime. It is coming

King Cannon

@.access:

One of the things I want to see the most in shonen is a terrible mother. Like unexcusably terrible, like Finn's father with a vagina.

Isn't Kaguya a mother of two herself?

Yobiyopi

@King:

Isn't Kaguya a mother of two herself?

Three actually :ninja:

even though Black Zetsu was born out of a plot hole

maxterdexter

@King:

Isn't Kaguya a mother of two herself?

And they killed her, and sealed her in the moon, in the body of a space tree or something.

SomeRandomGuy

@maxterdexter:

The abridged series is seriously affecting me with this, but yeah, his main crimes were the yardrat year, letting gohan fight cell, and not wanting to be revived the 2th time (the logic was pretty flimsy)

Goku probably thought gohan was mature enough to be without him for a year considering Gohan had traveled arcoss the galaxy and fought superpowered aliens. Gohan was the only one with the potential to beat Cell and Goku knew that. Up to that point every bad guy that was showing up was someone with a beef for Goku and with Gohan being flat out stronger than goku at that point he probably thought even if something else came up that Gohan could handle it.

Most of these events seem more like giving Gohan space to grow up. If you apply real world standards to it this might seem screwed up, but it's a fantasy world filled with superpowers and monsters.

Outerspec

@Green_vs_Red:

Kaguya wasn't new though she mentioned all the way back in part 1 long before the sage of six path was, it's just that at no point in time beforehand was it mentioned she was evil and was the woman behind the man behind the man.

Trust me, Kaguya wasn't mentioned until waaaaay into Part 2. Chapter 646 to be exact. I made a whole post about it and why Madara or even The Sage of 6 Paths would've made a better final villain.

Green_vs_Red

@Kurloz:

16charsof The hell? When?

Sasuke Retrival Arc

@Outerspec:

Trust me, Kaguya wasn't mentioned until waaaaay into Part 2..

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/216/16/

Had a clan that bore her name and whose members had a Kekkai Genkai derived from the same technique she used to kill Obito.

Too coincidental don't you think?

.access timeco.

@King:

Isn't Kaguya a mother of two herself?

We never saw her interacting with any of her sons, so the "bad mother" side isn't actually there.

@Nobodyman:

Well, there's Kill la Kill. Also, Medusa from Soul Eater.

I will use this to try and pass the 3rd episode of Kill la Kill. Everytime I try to watch this series, I give up after the 3rd.

jazzflower92

Kaguya could have even been the one who helped Naruto and Sasuke take down Madara because she could have been made the bigger good instead of the bigger bad. I mean Madara being a villain sue could have been taken down with the help of the woman who introduced chakra in the first place. Yeah, she might have be a dues ex machina but I think that would have been better than making her the bigger bad so that the Uchihas have a flimsy excuse for all their evil actions.

Yobiyopi

@Green_vs_Red:

Sasuke Retrival Arc

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/216/16/

Had a clan that bore her name and whose members had a Kekkai Genkai derived from the same technique she used to kill Obito.

Too coincidental don't you think?

The point is that we didn't knew about HER. No Ootsutsuki Kaguya the Demon Rabbit was ever mentioned, the fact that there is a whole clan with that last name actually raises more questions that were never answered.

Also wait, her last name and therefore clan wasn't even "Kaguya" But "Ootsutsuki" since Hagoromo and Hamura shared that last name too

Daz

@Green_vs_Red:

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/216/16/

Had a clan that bore her name and whose members had a Kekkai Genkai derived from the same technique she used to kill Obito.

Too coincidental don't you think?

Its a scene of Oro and Kabuto talking about the Bone Clan lineage and how they're bloodthirsty morons who got wiped out by the Mist village for being bloodthirsty morons. The name Kaguya is used, but theres not even the slightest hint of moons, trees, chakra-genesis or whatever else Kishi threw at her. It was a minor detail adding to the background of Bone Guy, it wasn't a tease of things to come; Kaguyas appearance in the end is still executed as a clunkyly inserted asspul… unless you're saying that 1 offhand mention of a bone-fighter clan by Orochimaru 400 chapters earlier had you wating years in anticipation of the moment where Kaguya would finally claim her rightful place as series Big Bad.

What most likely happened is that Kishi really wanted to do a big Final Fantasy esque final villain, rooted in Japanese folklore like so much of his other stuff, say what about the legend of princess Kaguya, oh right, I already used that name for the bone clan uuuuuuuuhhhh I'll give her Kimimaros Haircut then because they're related, problem solved

This isn't foreshadowing, its the author remembering and repurposing old concepts, which is way easier to do than plan and foreshadow properly in advance

Yobiyopi

About her look, this Kaguya is even better than her:

Look, it even had the pointy ears and the dots above the (empty) eyes years before the naruto one

Enzeru

Who's the sharingan-head? Another forgotten Uchiha?

Razh

@Enzeru:

Who's the sharingan-head? Another forgotten Uchiha?

I think him, Celebi and Celebi's twins are advanced Zetsus. Well, Celebi and twins deffinitely. Eyeball could be their oldest, or some other Akatsuki remnant. Maybe Obito's clone (I'm close to throwing up at the thought, but Kamui is there, so…).

This would be a lot easier to predict if there was some semblance of consistency.

ARTEMlS

@Daz:

Its a scene of Oro and Kabuto talking about the Bone Clan lineage and how they're bloodthirsty morons who got wiped out by the Mist village for being bloodthirsty morons. The name Kaguya is used, but theres not even the slightest hint of moons, trees, chakra-genesis or whatever else Kishi threw at her. It was a minor detail adding to the background of Bone Guy, it wasn't a tease of things to come; Kaguyas appearance in the end is still executed as a clunkyly inserted asspul… unless you're saying that 1 offhand mention of a bone-fighter clan by Orochimaru 400 chapters earlier had you wating years in anticipation of the moment where Kaguya would finally claim her rightful place as series Big Bad.

What most likely happened is that Kishi really wanted to do a big Final Fantasy esque final villain, rooted in Japanese folklore like so much of his other stuff, say what about the legend of princess Kaguya, oh right, I already used that name for the bone clan uuuuuuuuhhhh I'll give her Kimimaros Haircut then because they're related, problem solved

This isn't foreshadowing, its the author remembering and repurposing old concepts, which is way easier to do than plan and foreshadow properly in advance

But look how often you can see the moon in chapter 1. Didn't you also think back then that there will be the moon rabbit goddess and highly anticipate her glorious descension from upon the heavenly realm?

This is great foreshadowing from the very beginning on.

Razh

Also, there was that white rabbit Naruto attacked by the road on Team 7's first mission, prior to Zabuza's ambush. When Kakashi realized something was wrong. Fore! Shadowing!

ARTEMlS

And these rabbits change their appereance based on the environment. This is perfect foreshadowing for Kaguya also been shaped by her environment. I'm so curious to see what it will be that shaped Kaguya the way she was and made her want to create her powerful army.

Also Naruto apologizing to the rabbit after the battle, does it foreshadow a potential Kaguya redemption arc?

Horizon

@Green_vs_Red:

Sasuke Retrival Arc http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/216/16/ Had a clan that bore her name and whose members had a Kekkai Genkai derived from the same technique she used to kill Obito. Too coincidental don't you think?

It was a blatant asspull. All you'd have to do is give her the name and abilities of a clan and call it a day. It's very simple.

Razh

Why Kaguya clan had bones and no bird eyes and why Hyuuga had bird eyes and no bones will forever remain a mystery.

Black Leg

Madara Uchiha didn't deserve to go out like that he got shafted so badly just because Kishi couldn't think of a way to beat him. No one really had any qualms with him as the final boss, since he's kind of been floating around this series since the beginning.

Plus look at him smiling whilst beating up all these ninas, how can you not love this guy?

Razh

Great song choice for an intro depicting war and bloodshed.

Madara was a lot cooler before we found out some more about him.

desa

I sure enjoyed Madera fighting the kages and was looking forward to a good fight with Naruto. Then Juubi and Juubi's host got involved.

.access timeco.

Madara became just another generic bad guy once the Juubi stepped in (as the whole manga went to shit after that), but I loved him before. He had Aizen trollness, but exactly on point. I miss that Madara.

Green_vs_Red

@Daz:

It was a minor detail adding to the background of Bone Guy, it wasn't a tease of things to come;

To be fair neither was the revelation that the final villain(s) were Uchihas and neither one being Sasuke to some people.

Everyone just assumed Orochimaru & His sound Ninjas and then The Akatsuki were going to be the final villain(s) and then got swerved (repeatedly).

@Daz:

Kaguyas appearance in the end is still executed as a clunkyly inserted asspul… unless you're saying that 1 offhand mention of a bone-fighter clan by Orochimaru 400 chapters earlier had you wating years in anticipation of the moment where Kaguya would finally claim her rightful place as series Big Bad.

Well considering Pain leapfrogged Orochimaru, who then got leapfrogged by Obito, who then got leapfrogged by Madara for the position of Big Bad it'd be a tad bit unfair to single Kaguya out for doing it too. But yeah you can't really defend Kaguya's sudden appearance and promotion to bigger bad in arc which at the point was running for too long.

@Horizon:

It was a blatant asspull. All you'd have to do is give her the name and abilities of a clan and call it a day. It's very simple.

Sasuke cheating death in his fight with Hidan was an asspull.
Killer B somehow surviving having Gyuki removed from his body was an asspull
The Sage Of The Six Paths Transcending death and then giving Naruto & Sasuke a powerup in the middle of the fight with Madara was an asspull.

Kaguya showing up out of the blue and wreaking havoc seemed little more than Kishimoto just wanting to throw another villian into a story that was already bloated and past it's sell by date for some people.

Outerspec

Seeing as how Kaguya Otsusuki's lineage can be traced to the Uchiha, Uzumaki, Senju, Hyuuga, and Kaguya clans and the fact that she can use every element on the table one could say she was foreshadowed as soon anyone mentioned…ninja. She encompasses everything so it's easy for Kishi to just throw her in there last minute...which he did.

Femme

This is relevant.

Green_vs_Red

@Outerspec:

Seeing as how Kaguya Otsusuki's lineage can be traced to the Uchiha, Uzumaki, Senju, Hyuuga, and Kaguya clans and the fact that she can use every element on the table one could say she was foreshadowed as soon anyone mentioned…ninja. She encompasses everything so it's easy for Kishi to just throw her in there last minute...which he did.

Well at any rate she at least changed things up by being a female villain (that didn't become good later on for some reason)…..a weakly developed female villain of course that was forced into arc that didn't need her. But you take what you can get I suppose.

jazzflower92

@Green_vs_Red:

Well at any rate she at least changed things up by being a female villain (that didn't become good later on for some reason)…..a weakly developed female villain of course that was forced into arc that didn't need her. But you take what you can get I suppose.

I say she didn't need to be made a villain but instead a good entity who helps the heroes and Sasuke in their time of need.

Green_vs_Red

@jazzflower92:

I say she didn't need to be made a villain but instead a good entity who helps the heroes and Sasuke in their time of need.

That's what they did with the Sage though…...and it was every bit as contrived as it looked.

DBZGTKOSDH

A guy stronger than Kaguya… could that guy be the big bad of the next movie? Since this Gaiden seems to act as a prelude for the movie.

auem

! seems like Sarada got abducted in this chapter.

Doffy

@auem:

! seems like Sarada got abducted in this chapter.

What chapter you're talking about

Purple Hermit

Is anyone shocked?