Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

Halfmetal-lich

I enjoyed this chapter. I thought it was good.

Thatanas

I mean I guess it was the exact same fight in that we have seen Naruto and Sasuke fight 3 times, but the only fight that you could even consider similar to this one is the battle at the end of part 1. Seriously, if all you took from these 5 chapters is " ugh Chidori Rasengan Clash again!" then idk what to tell you. There was a ton more going on.

The speeches were the same as well, except for the conclusion again. Seriously, you might find it awesome, I found it repetitive and boring.

Nekketsu

Not gonna lie. Even with the whole "we're going to bleed to death if we move" I didn't see that coming.

Algetrig

@Ordinary:

It seemed to be some kind of unwritten rule that Kishimoto had way back in the chase sasuke arc. "Whenever Sasuke and Naruto fight, screw strategy and just go with giant rasengans and chidoris".

Haha yeah that seems to work for him

Bigivel

@Nekketsu:

Not gonna lie. Even with the whole "we're going to bleed to death if we move" I didn't see that coming.

I believe that is a Mangapanda mistranslated! Mangastream has different and I don't see how they don't moving their bodies will stop the bleeding of their severed arms.

auem

@superv:

I was very surprised when saw Sasuke say that he wanted to be as strong and cool as Naruto, that seemed very out of character.

Naruto said it..Sasuke was remembering those words..

RoboBlue

Wow, what a great chapter!
I was deeply touched when Sakura stepped in to bandage and treat the injured Naruto and Sasuke, bringing her character arc to a nice conclusion. GO TEAM~!

Magi

@RoboBlue:

Wow, what a great chapter!
I was deeply touched when Sakura stepped in to bandage and treat the injured Naruto and Sasuke, bringing her character arc to a nice conclusion. GO TEAM~!

Oh, you! Thinking about Sakura actually doing something useful!? How cute.

SpaceCowboy

@RoboBlue:

Wow, what a great chapter!
I was deeply touched when Sakura stepped in to bandage and treat the injured Naruto and Sasuke, bringing her character arc to a nice conclusion. GO TEAM~!

I´ve never seen you around this thread before. Who in FACE are you?

valiantt

I'm kinda baffled that "bleeding to death" is an issue in the Naruto-verse. Considering that Naruto has Jesus-like powers, should bleeding to death or missing limbs be an issue (as well as running out of Chakra a chapter ago)? I can imagine it would be if both his arms were blown off but…I dunno, it seems remarkably trivial after hyping up both Naruto and Sasuke's god like powers.

PS: I hope the next chapter, Sakura does come back to heal them only to find that they healed themselves. Rendering her even more pointless. Ahh I can imagine it now >

Sakura: I've come to help you guys.
Sasuke: Shut up, no girls allowed. Didn't you get the message the first time? Punches her in the stomach
Naruto: Great, now we have privacy again. Now lets see what happens when he touch our weiners together. It's subtle AND symbolic!

Halfmetal-lich

Ok, since we are at the end of this, It's time to get some shit off my chest.

I think this forum gives this series a level of hatred and vile that it does not deserve.

It is ok to not like Naruto, it is even ok to hate Naruto. If you are honestly disappointed that the series did not pan out the way you wanted it, or if you have issues with the writing of the cast, then that's cool. I got my issues, everyone does. That's life, nothing is perfect.

But I think there has been a level of hated directed at this series that has gotten out of hand. It has become routine every week to circle the wagons and kicks the series in the nuts and make jokes at the expense of it. Now I get it, we've all had our kicks at the series, how Sasuke and Naruto are gay, Sakura is useless, the hard-on the creator has for Sasuke, but at this point? It's gone from funny to just plain annoying. There is better shit we can do with our time, and frankly a series that I am sure many of us have followed for years, whether we have loved, hated or fallen out of love with it, frankly does not need to be routinely beaten up every week for cheap kicks.

Again, if you don't like Naruto, or even hate it. That is your right and god bless.

But please, now that we have reached the final two chapter, if we can just take a step back and calm down, relax. It's not that bad of a manga.

I reckon many here will disagree with me, probably strongly so. I just felt, at the end of all this, I needed to vent that out.

Of course, if Hinata and Naruto do not end up together, then this series can go to fucking hell.

Outerspec

I genuinely thought it was a good chapter. The art was good for the most part, especially with the page showing the chidori and rasengan colliding. Unoriginal but it was symbolic, and did anyone honestly think the battle would end otherwise?

I will say this about Sasuke coming around to Naruto's side. It was handled much better than Nagato but that shouldn't have been that hard to accomplish.

Wagomu

Sakura heals Sasuke first, then Sasuke stabs Sakura so she can't heal Naruto and beats Naruto to death. Then he just yells "HAHA I AM THE WINNER!" and dies of an incurable disease. Kakshi couldn't give two fucks.

ArmamentHero

@Halfmetal-lich:

Ok, since we are at the end of this, It's time to get some shit off my chest.

I think this forum gives this series a level of hatred and vile that it does not deserve.

It is ok to not like Naruto, it is even ok to hate Naruto. If you are honestly disappointed that the series did not pan out the way you wanted it, or if you have issues with the writing of the cast, then that's cool. I got my issues, everyone does. That's life, nothing is perfect.

But I think there has been a level of hated directed at this series that has gotten out of hand. It has become routine every week to circle the wagons and kicks the series in the nuts and make jokes at the expense of it. Now I get it, we've all had our kicks at the series, how Sasuke and Naruto are gay, Sakura is useless, the hard-on the creator has for Sasuke, but at this point? It's gone from funny to just plain annoying. There is better shit we can do with our time, and frankly a series that I am sure many of us have followed for years, whether we have loved, hated or fallen out of love with it, frankly does not need to be routinely beaten up every week for cheap kicks.

Again, if you don't like Naruto, or even hate it. That is your right and god bless.

But please, now that we have reached the final two chapter, if we can just take a step back and calm down, relax. It's not that bad of a manga.

I reckon many here will disagree with me, probably strongly so. I just felt, at the end of all this, I needed to vent that out.

Of course, if Hinata and Naruto do not end up together, then this series can go to fucking hell.

Preach it.
In the end, it's a successful story that lasted 15 years. There were times when I was displeased with it, but i still read it because there were times when I thought it had great moments. Overall, the story was good.

Cyan D. Funk

Overall the story was really really bad actually because part 2 is literally 75% of this manga and the 'war' was a full 25%.

Magi

@Halfmetal-lich:

I think this forum gives this series a level of hatred and vile that it does not deserve.

Addressing its numerous faults isn't vile or hating.

It has become routine every week to circle the wagons and kicks the series in the nuts and make jokes at the expense of it.

Making jokes at the bad writing isn't wrong. Have a sense of humor.

It's gone from funny to just plain annoying.

Since when was it supposed to appeal to you?

Again, if you don't like Naruto, or even hate it. That is your right and god bless.

Why write this if it completely contradicts your next sentence?

Of course, if Hinata and Naruto do not end up together, then this series can go to fucking hell

Because who Naruto decides to bang actually matters, right? Out of everything that has happened, this is what will make you dislike the series?

Kishido

@Cyan:

Overall the story was really really bad actually because part 2 is literally 75% of this manga and the 'war' was a full 25%.

But in my memories I will believe Naruto ended with part 1. While Part 2 was something as DB GT

PS
Hinata is so smexy in da movie pics. But if no Hamura… Fuck you Kishi

KageKageKing

Isn't this great, the moment the Jump titles get released earlier there is no One Piece.

Halfmetal-lich

@Magi:

Addressing its numerous faults isn't vile or hating.

Making jokes at the bad writing isn't wrong. Have a sense of humor.

Since when was it supposed to appeal to you?

Why write this if it completely contradicts your next sentence?

Because who Naruto decides to bang actually matters, right? Out of everything that has happened, this is what will make you dislike the series?

It's my personal opinion, that's all, and I wanted to vent it since we are literally at the end of this series. Think of it what you will, but I thought I'd just shout out my last real view on the reception to the series.

LightningAce

Oh so, the finale is next week….. :cwy:

ArmamentHero

@Cyan:

Overall the story was really really bad actually because part 2 is literally 75% of this manga and the 'war' was a full 25%.

In the end, there's still a large fanbase that likes the current and ending route of Naruto. I'm assuming you consider part 1 the ending?

valiantt

@ArmamentHero:

In the end, there's still a large fanbase that likes the current and ending route of Naruto. I'm assuming you consider part 1 the ending?

That doesn't make it good. That just means there's a whole lot of folks that either turn a blind eye to what happened in part 1 or just plain forgot about it. Yeah it should have ended in part 1 where the comic's good attributes outweighed its shortcomings, but part 2 happened where all the crap started gradually weighing it down and Kishi started going back and retconning things and…yeah.

Pretty much the final war just took all the worst elements of the Naruto franchise and magnified them which is not good because the final war makes up 25% of the entire serie.

Enzeru

Wait, they're not going to kiss? Oh come on! Omitting the best part again, are we, Kishi?

ArmamentHero

@valiantt:

That doesn't make it good. That just means there's a whole lot of folks that either turn a blind eye to what happened in part 1 or just plain forgot about it. Yeah it should have ended in part 1 where the comic's good attributes outweighed its shortcomings, but part 2 happened where all the crap started gradually weighing it down and Kishi started going back and retconning things and…yeah.

Pretty much the final war just took all the worst elements of the Naruto franchise and magnified them which is not good because the final war makes up 25% of the entire serie.

I meant that is still a rather large fanbase that liked the way the story panned. Ones that thought it was good, all it comes down to is personal opinions on the matter.

Cyan D. Funk

Nothing is good or bad it all depends on your opinion, no need for debate or critical thinking :)

Wagomu

You can argue that it comes down to opinion all you want and it will be no less valid, but Kishimoto's made some downright baffling decisions by any measure.

Like how the culmination of a series about stealthy mercenaries is a giant all out self-motivated war.

Outerspec

We should remember the best and worst moments of Naruto next week. The best moments are the times we made fun of the worst moments.

Seriously though, this manga went from great underdog story to great steaming pile of destined crap for most people. For me it's just borderline "ok" and I'm thankful it hasn't gotten to the point where I have no regard for it whatsoever and just read it to see what ridiculousness comes up next (Bleach). Of course Naruto couldn't be the underdog forever but the way Kishi treated his side characters to shine all the spotlight on Naruto and Sasuke as 2 children of destiny will never sit right with me.

KzTxL7

Opinion is that shit you fall back on when you want to ignore the objectively bad choices.

valiantt

@ArmamentHero:

I meant that is still a rather large fanbase that liked the way the story panned. Ones that thought it was good, all it comes down to is personal opinions on the matter.

Not to bash on you or anything, but I never liked this rationale for "liking something" and it seems like a common response to liking Naruto at this point. It's like "yeah, I prefer my ice cream sundae to be covered in dog droppings rather than sprinkles. Why? I dunno, I just like it better that way." It really doesn't offer much to why it's good by simply stating "I like it so it's good".

Actually, I can sum up a majority of Kishi's short comings in one word: Kaguya.

She is pretty much a metaphor of why this series is legitimately bad.

ArmamentHero

@valiantt:

Not to bash on you or anything, but I never liked this rationale for "liking something" and it seems like a common response to liking Naruto at this point. It's like "yeah, I prefer my ice cream sundae to be covered in dog droppings rather than sprinkles. Why? I dunno, I just like it better that way." It really doesn't offer much to why it's good by simply stating "I like it so it's good".

I've read the Naruto since 2004, at the time, it was great, I shared a lot of good opinions/thoughts about it. After part 1, it did shave away from what I was hoping, but I still liked it. At this point, I think it was an alright story, sure there were times where I was like "What the fuck Kishi, why'd you do it that." However, I can honestly say that there were moments that I also liked, even during the war arc. So ultimately, you're right, there shouldn't be a point in liking it now because of opinion(Maybe I should use preference instead?). Kishi has ultimately made mistakes on the overall plot and character management in the story, but it's pointless to argue that now too. He's the one who drew it,and so on, we're the ones reading it. So I guess he wins in the end.

Kaguya did feel forced, but I did like her dimensional abilities. If only it felt more natural instead forced story progression.

rereboy

The terms "bad" and "good" are inherently subjective and relative terms. Nothing is objectively bad or good because for something to be bad or good there is always a need for someone to judge it and conclude whether he thinks its good or bad. Those notions don't exist beyond human opinion and they vary depending on the judgment of any given person.

Something objective is something like saying that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen. Even if no humans were around to reach that conclusion, it would still be true.

So, thinking that Naruto is good or bad is inherently subjective. But of course, there are varying degrees of logic and validity to anyone's opinion and most people will naturally assume you opinion doesn't count for much the more incoherent and illogical it is.

ArmamentHero

@rereboy:

The terms "bad" and "good" are inherently subjective and relative terms. Nothing is objectively bad or good because for something to be bad or good there is always a need for someone to judge it and conclude whether he thinks its good or bad. Those notions don't exist beyond human opinion and they vary depending on the judgment of any given person.

Something objective is something like saying that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen. Even if no humans were around to reach that conclusion, it would still be true.

So, thinking that Naruto is good or bad is inherently subjective. But of course, there are varying degrees of logic and validity to anyone's opinion and most people will naturally assume you opinion doesn't count for much the more incoherent and illogical it is.

I like this post.

The Spaceman

How about this: Naruto became a bad story because it's second part directly contradicted the themes of the first part.

Basslion

There are so many places with people that adore whatever happens in Naruto and consider it the greatest masterpiece. Just let us make fun of/criticize a bad manga.

valiantt

I dunno, I was always under the impression that retcons, inconsistency, weird plot decisions, wonky characterizations, and so on are seen generally as "poor storytelling" devices (which means it's bad). You mean there's actually people that think that these devices are actually "good"? And that it'll actually result in a "good story"?

James Rye

@Basslion:

There are so many places with people that adore whatever happens in Naruto and consider it the greatest masterpiece. Just let us make fun of/criticize a bad manga.

There are places with many peope who consider every chapter of Bleach a masterpiece. Even the latest chapters. Whenever I read through their comments, I get kind of scared…..

valiantt

@The:

How about this: Naruto became a bad story because it's second part directly contradicted the themes of the first part.

This is an understatement. It not only directly contradicted it, the story pretty much did everything that it could to completely obliterate it. But hay! Some people think it's GOOD storytelling.

Cyan D. Funk

@rereboy:

The terms "bad" and "good" are inherently subjective and relative terms. Nothing is objectively bad or good because for something to be bad or good there is always a need for someone to judge it and conclude whether he thinks its good or bad. Those notions don't exist beyond human opinion and they vary depending on the judgment of any given person.

Oh my god not this shit again.

ArmamentHero

@valiantt:

I dunno, I was always under the impression that retcons, inconsistency, weird plot decisions, wonky characterizations, and so on are seen generally as "poor storytelling" devices (which means it's bad). You mean there's actually people that think that these devices are actually "good"? And that it'll actually result in a "good story"?

Yes, there are people that actually see the story as a masterpiece and so on. In defence, there was alot of other inconsistent stories that were successful.

rereboy

@Cyan:

Oh my god not this shit again.

Read my last sentence.

valiantt

@ArmamentHero:

Yes, there are people that actually see the story as a masterpiece and so on. In defence, there was alot of other inconsistent stories that were successful.

Then sorry to say, but they're dumbasses that don't know what a "good" story is. And just because it is successful, doesn't make it "good". It can be enjoyable, but it's not a "good" story. Ask anyone if "retcons, incosnsistency, etc…" are a "good" thing, and if they say, "yeah, they're fun and they make for a great story"; then pretty much their opinion should never be taken seriously. No one will say that these are "good" forms of storytelling.

And Naruto...has a lot of these flaws.

Laffitte

I like how that guy went on this nauseating thoughtless and really quite bilious schpiel about how everything is opinion…. And then tidies it up by adding except science, yeah science has nothing to so with human perspective nope

I really dislike how this trend of natural subjectivit wrought a series of bottom feeding numbskulls who in the effort to propagate the doctrine of subjective thought really do no thinking at all

Sent from my Motorola moto g while shitting in a public bathroom

Wagomu

'Good' and 'bad' are subjective, at the end of the day, sure, but there are a lot of objective details that make one conclusion much easier to reach than the other.

Algetrig

I know Naruto has given his "Because we're friends" speech like 1000 times but I thought this was really a poignant way to describe it for the last time. Its little things like this that made this last chapter even more effective.

valiantt

One more note: I still can't grasp the fact that people think that enjoyable/high popularity = good story. They're completely different, but somehow folks keep trying to make this equation work.

Although a good story = enjoyable/highly popular serie, but not necessarily visa versa. Why is this so hard to understand?

rereboy

@Laffitte:

I like how that guy went on this nauseating thoughtless and really quite bilious schpiel about how everything is opinion…. And then tidies it up by adding except science, yeah science has nothing to so with human perspective nope

That was merely an example. If you want another, its simple. How about this:

the mountain known as Everest exists on the planet known as Earth. This is something objective. Even if no humans or any life forms existed on Earth to name the mountain and realize its there, the mountain would still be there.
the mountain known as Everest is beautiful/ugly/good/bad/frightening/appealing/etc. This is subjective. I don't think I need to explain why since I already did in my last post.

But of course, you can just label my post in all manner of adjectives instead of showing where my logic is faulty…. It won't be as effective in demonstrating your point, though... Quite the opposite.

ArmamentHero

@valiantt:

Then sorry to say, but they're dumbasses that don't know what a "good" story is. And just because it is successful, doesn't make it "good". It can be enjoyable, but it's not a "good" story. Ask anyone if "retcons, incosnsistency, etc…" are a "good" thing, and if they say, "yeah, they're fun and they make for a great story"; then pretty much their opinion should never be taken seriously. No one will say that these are "good" forms of storytelling.

And Naruto...has a lot of these flaws.

It's hard to accept anyone's opinion when it comes to discussions on such a matter. As for calling them dumbasses, that's a bit over the top, don't you think? In the end, they're going to like/love what they want to, regardless of what others think.

Razh

@Algetrig:

I know Naruto has given his "Because we're friends" speech like 1000 times but I thought this was really a poignant way to describe it for the last time. Its little things like this that made this last chapter even more effective.

At least he wasn't repeating what he said before.

Btw, when people are asked why they like something, they can never quite put their finger on it, but when you ask them why they dislike something, they will instantly be able to tell you!

valiantt

@ArmamentHero:

It's hard to accept anyone's opinion when it comes to discussions on such a matter. As for calling them dumbasses, that's a bit over the top, don't you think? In the end, they're going to like/love what they want to, regardless of what others think.

Yeah it is a tad blunt but in the end, it's remarkably flawed thinking to consider that these elements make for a good story. No one will agree to that (or to word it better, no one SHOULD agree to that because some folks just don't know any better). There is a difference between something that you enjoy and something that is actually "good". An enjoyable story can be flawed, but a good story will try to minimize these flaws.

They can like it/love it. Sure whatever floats their boat, BUT going around and calling it a good story without legitimate reasons for why it's good and how it outweighs the bad is pretty much…a flawed approach to evaluating the story.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Razh:

At least he wasn't repeating what he said before.

Btw, when people are asked why they like something, they can never quite put their finger on it, but when you ask them why they dislike something, they will instantly be able to tell you!

I don't have a hard time with this at all. If you ask why I enjoy something like…I dunno, "One Punch Man", I can easily give a lot of reasons why it's good and how it outweighs the overall flaws. But I have yet to see anyone do this effectively with Naruto (but damn do the Bleach-ites do a remarkable job at trying to legitimize Bleach's effectiveness).

Razh

@valiantt:

I don't have a hard time with this at all. If you ask why I enjoy something like…I dunno, "One Punch Man", I can easily give a lot of reasons why it's good and how it outweighs the overall flaws. But I have yet to see anyone do this effectively with Naruto (but damn do the Bleach-ites do a remarkable job at trying to legitimize Bleach's effectiveness).

That's ok, I was joking around. It's a Bleach quote, but it was about fear.