Nami did fine in fight with Kalifa. She used her brains and was pretty badass. For my taste battle had too much fanservice, but it isn't bothering me too much. Kalifa also came out as practically brainless, with her devil fruit she should have been much tougher opponent.
What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?
-
-
the last memorable fight the crew had was against moria which was a combined effort, the one before it was enies lobby where nami had her own fight and sanji fell from grace.
anyways, this is a shonen meant for young males, and what male would prefer to see nami and robin get screen time over usopp/franky/zoro/sanji ?
I just don't see the need of this whining for females getting attention in OP when they get far more than enough, I'll personally cringe if I have to read an entire chapter of nami vs _____ or robin vs _____
their purpose isn't there for battle, it's there for navigation (nami) and a historian in robin. I personally can't wait until robin mentions dragon and talks about joy boy/void century etc.
what other shonen had arcs especially made for female characters? nami got arlong arc and robin got enies lobby + proper flashbacks.
robin is over powered? hardly
I'm not talking about the whole crew I said Nami specifically because there have been arcs between Alabasta and the OZ fight. Nami and Kalifa was the worst fight on that arc. One of the worst the entire series.
Why does something aimed at young boys have to exclude strong women? That sort of logic makes no sense. There's other shonen manga around that have women getting proper fights. It's not like I said I don't want men to fight just the women. Everyone gets some badass stuff going on. Why would you look at in a negative way if both genders got to get into a decent fight?
I'm not even asking for arcs dedicated to women exclusively. Just that we actually get to see women fighting in extremes like the men get to.
Robin is overpowered. There's only been a couple people that could actually break her hold on them. She has dozens of ways to incapacitate and enemy. Most people can't counter her.
This is how a lot of people confuse feminists from extremists. They think they want to completely take over and make men how women have been treated in most cultures. Second Class. Equality is what most of us are talking about. Nobody's getting less time to shine and strut their stuff. Not replace or down play other encounters.
If you don't like Nami or Robin as characters that's a different argument, if you don't enjoy when they get panel time at all. I didn't like Usopp or Sanji in the beginning and wanted less panel time. But you know after I got to see them really fight I liked them more. They weren't just the perv and the coward.
-
Oda shot himself in the foot with Robin's power. It's just way too good for a creative 1v1 fight.
She should fight crowds of minions in interesting ways.
-
You know what I suddenly realized. Didn't Robin technically "sexually harass" Franky waay back at the end of the Water 7 arc? (Even though most men probably wouldn't deem it as "sexual harassment", but still you can technically call it sexual harassment. Still, what she did was totally worse than what any man did to a woman in OP).
-
Oda shot himself in the foot with Robin's power. It's just way too good for a creative 1v1 fight.
She should fight crowds of minions in interesting ways.
I do agree with this. Logically, she should be able to take out most enemies easily. I kind of wish that Oda would give her enemies that she could not easily crush, suffocate, ect. I hate to use filler as an example but remember how in the Foxy arc, there was a invertabret fishman that Robin couldn't crush?
I guess it also doesn't help that Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji can probably take out any of the enemies in the 1v1 fights (probably save for the boss for Zoro and Sanji) It kind of makes everyone else's fight pointless. I wish that Oda had written it so that each character had their own type of enemy that they were the best for taking out. Such as Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji can fight the physically strong enemies but are not good against elemental or those who use trickery, science, illusions, or whatever to fight. That would make other crew members seem more essential when it comes to fighting. We got that with Usopp and Perona.
I do hope to see Hina again in the NW and I hope she is still… competent.
The thing that annoys me most is the fact that Nami needs saving at one point in nearly every arc. It just makes her a liability and damsels in distress are very annoying. Oda does often subvert it a bit such as in Skypea she rescues Usopp after he and Sanji come to save her. Well this person wrote an essay on Nami as a female character. It's a little outdated as it was written around the time Thriller Bark was completed but its still interesting. http://feminist-fandom.livejournal.com/46851.html
-
That's quite interesting read, it touches some interesting issues, it seem I have to reread Triller Bark to verify that.
-
It sort of bothers me when a critic is absolutely certain about what it is an artist is trying to say, and that line of thinking can become really presumptuous really fast, and I kind of think that the author of that essay approached that a few times, especially when she tried to say, with utmost certainty, that Oda was saying that Nami's body was "clearly meant to be sexually provocative" in some scenes (when I didn't get that interpretation at all. I just thought the scenes were weird) or that he's "punishing" Nami for being a strong character earlier in the series (which is just an odd claim to make in the first place.) It makes me wonder how in the world this writer was able to so clearly look into Oda's mind and figure out exactly what his agenda was when he as writing those scenes. Heck, for all we know his editor could have just told him to put more fanservice in there to boost ratings, which I really wouldn't doubt.
Still, she does bring up many good points and interpretations that shouldn't be overlooked, particularly in regards to the points made about Thriller Bark. However, I would argue that she ignored a very big part of the whole Absalom subplot, which was the contrast between Absalom and Sanji, which I thought was what Oda's focus was on, even if the statements made about Sanji's character were kinda shot later on by his characterization in the recent chapters. I do find it a bit distressing that Nami hasn't had any really notable moments later in the story, with the exception of some cool bits in Punk Hazard and that part with Jinbe in Fishman Island. Then again, I can't think of any really decent Usopp moments since Thriller Bark either, so there you go. But in general I think it would be nice if the characterization of women now was more like it was in the beginning. I can sort of assume that at least part of the change has to do with the greater number of characters to focus on, but that can't be the only reason things have been so downhill. It makes me curious…
-
You know what I suddenly realized. Didn't Robin technically "sexually harass" Franky waay back at the end of the Water 7 arc? (Even though most men probably wouldn't deem it as "sexual harassment", but still you can technically call it sexual harassment. Still, what she did was totally worse than what any man did to a woman in OP).
Arlong, Spandam, Absalom, etcetera.
-
@Kylor, author of this article clearly said at the beginning, that she is writing from her point of view and describes things how she sees them. When mentioning "punishing" Nami for being a strong character, she mentioned, that she doesn't know, if it was author's intention, or the fact that he likes showing of boobs.
I agree with you, that the claim itself is strange, and there is nothing in the manga, that would suggesting interpreting it in that way. -
Arlong, Spandam, Absalom, etcetera.
I think he meant in a sexual way. Absalom certainly fits the bill, but Arlong and Spandam were just assholes in general.
-
You know what I suddenly realized. Didn't Robin technically "sexually harass" Franky waay back at the end of the Water 7 arc? (Even though most men probably wouldn't deem it as "sexual harassment", but still you can technically call it sexual harassment. Still, what she did was totally worse than what any man did to a woman in OP).
Hah, but of course, that was just for laughs, ya know? Then it doesn´t count!!! And Franky is a man you know, so it doesn´t count twice!
Hope you guys noticed my sarcasm. And I´m not saying that Oda is handling women the best, but you people should really stop overanalyzing stuff and enjoy the damn manga. I mean, if it´s that abhorrent for some of you, you can just stop reading it. Or do something against sexim in RL - and not discuss about sexism in A SHONEN MANGA FROM JAPAN (I gather that in Japan the traditional roles are even more cemented than here, although I may be mistaken - so please feel free to correct me. I just don´t like it how some people really have to exaggerate, even when there are some situations which really aren´t sexist - or aren´t meant to be at least).
-
I'm not talking about the whole crew I said Nami specifically because there have been arcs between Alabasta and the OZ fight. Nami and Kalifa was the worst fight on that arc. One of the worst the entire series.
Why does something aimed at young boys have to exclude strong women? That sort of logic makes no sense. There's other shonen manga around that have women getting proper fights. It's not like I said I don't want men to fight just the women. Everyone gets some badass stuff going on. Why would you look at in a negative way if both genders got to get into a decent fight?
I'm not even asking for arcs dedicated to women exclusively. Just that we actually get to see women fighting in extremes like the men get to.
Robin is overpowered. There's only been a couple people that could actually break her hold on them. She has dozens of ways to incapacitate and enemy. Most people can't counter her.
This is how a lot of people confuse feminists from extremists. They think they want to completely take over and make men how women have been treated in most cultures. Second Class. Equality is what most of us are talking about. Nobody's getting less time to shine and strut their stuff. Not replace or down play other encounters.
If you don't like Nami or Robin as characters that's a different argument, if you don't enjoy when they get panel time at all. I didn't like Usopp or Sanji in the beginning and wanted less panel time. But you know after I got to see them really fight I liked them more. They weren't just the perv and the coward.
This is a good post.
You know what I suddenly realized. Didn't Robin technically "sexually harass" Franky waay back at the end of the Water 7 arc? (Even though most men probably wouldn't deem it as "sexual harassment", but still you can technically call it sexual harassment. Still, what she did was totally worse than what any man did to a woman in OP).
Yep, that was sexual harassment that no one in-series labeled as sexual harassment because "women don't sexually harass people," which is dumb and stupid and stems from the idea that women can't really harm people so the other person can't 'really' be harmed. We could totally discuss how narrow definitions of masculinity negatively affect the portrayal of men in One Piece…if the thread was actually about men in One Piece! I'm not opposed to discussing it here, but I'm not sure how the mods feel about what would technically be derailing the thread.
Hah, but of course, that was just for laughs, ya know? Then it doesn´t count!!! And Franky is a man you know, so it doesn´t count twice!
Hope you guys noticed my sarcasm. And I´m not saying that Oda is handling women the best, but you people should really stop overanalyzing stuff and enjoy the damn manga. I mean, if it´s that abhorrent for some of you, you can just stop reading it. Or do something against sexim in RL - and not discuss about sexism in A SHONEN MANGA FROM JAPAN (I gather that in Japan the traditional roles are even more cemented than here, although I may be mistaken - so please feel free to correct me. I just don´t like it how some people really have to exaggerate, even when there are some situations which really aren´t sexist - or aren´t meant to be at least).
It's an interesting topic and if the discussion is here it's not in the chapter discussion threads. And no one is being forced to read this thread, so win-win for everyone involved!
Why are you assuming some of us here don't work on LGBTQ or feminist issues in real life? I mean, you can still enjoy One Piece while realizing it has faults and I think everyone realizes that it ultimately is just a children's pirate comic that we're discussing online.
Anyway, that thread in General Discussion about LGBTQ, feminist, and minority issues is coming, I swear, just been busy.
-
I've said it before and I will insist on saying it forever. We shouldn't discuss this despite the fact that it's a children's comic from Japan, we should discuss this because it's a children's comic from Japan. Stories and media, in their own way, shape our culture and how we think, and if sexism and negative portrayals of women are present in our popular stories, that will reflect poorly on us as well. The fact that this is marketed to children, who will no doubt see things like this and think that it's perfectly okay and that this is how the world is, makes this all the worse.
Nami and Robin are both strong, interesting characters, so Oda's already halfway there, but the fact that this manga is so popular and read by so many makes it so incredibly important that it should change, and therefore hopefully help create a more positive image on how women are treated in Japanese culture. So yeah, I'm all for over analyzing, so long as it makes sense, and is directed at the right things.
-
To be honest, I´m not against you guys discussing these kinds of things, because you do have your points, but:
- You can´t really change the way Oda writes or things, or the patriarchal system (just by discussing in this forum at least :P)…yet at least. I hope some change in the way people think will gradually come, but yeah...
@ Autumncomet: then you should spend more times working on those issues than discussing things which do not amount to nothing anyway on these forums... - People sometimes see everything as sexist, although it may have been intended as a joke. Hell, it can still be sexist, but it was a joke. Only because someone jokes about blondes he (or she, women can tell such jokes as well ;)) isn´t necessarily a sexist, you get what I mean?
You guys can discuss anything you (we´re on the Internet...:D), but just don´t make things bigger than they are and don´t go on any crusades (not that I accuse you of doing it, but some people really make me wonder if they don´t have a life outside OP...).
- You can´t really change the way Oda writes or things, or the patriarchal system (just by discussing in this forum at least :P)…yet at least. I hope some change in the way people think will gradually come, but yeah...
-
To be honest, I´m not against you guys discussing these kinds of things, because you do have your points, but:
- You can´t really change the way Oda writes or things, or the patriarchal system (just by discussing in this forum at least :P)…yet at least. I hope some change in the way people think will gradually come, but yeah...
@ Autumncomet: then you should spend more times working on those issues than discussing things which do not amount to nothing anyway on these forums... - People sometimes see everything as sexist, although it may have been intended as a joke. Hell, it can still be sexist, but it was a joke. Only because someone jokes about blondes he (or she, women can tell such jokes as well ;)) isn´t necessarily a sexist, you get what I mean?
You guys can discuss anything you (we´re on the Internet...:D), but just don´t make things bigger than they are and don´t go on any crusades (not that I accuse you of doing it, but some people really make me wonder if they don´t have a life outside OP...).
- No, but you can change how people think about things or at the very least learn something. Cyclone_Baroness had a good post earlier that provided a simplified definition for feminism, which gets a lot of bad reputation in a lot of areas. If you didn't know what feminism was before reading their post, now you do. And bringing up how I should be "spending more times working on those issues" ignores that a) I'm already spending time working on those issues, which was the original issue brought up b) no one is being forced to read the thread. I mean, cool, you have established that I am apparently wasting my time, which I own, by not doing more of a thing that I already do a lot of. Now what?
- Things don't magically become less sexist/racist/uneducated/etc because they're a joke. I mean, I doubt the person telling the joke (Oda) means any harm, but jokes normalize behavior, so it's definitely possible to unintentionally act sexist without actually being (deliberately) sexist.
- You can´t really change the way Oda writes or things, or the patriarchal system (just by discussing in this forum at least :P)…yet at least. I hope some change in the way people think will gradually come, but yeah...
-
To completely, brutally honest: yes, I would. True, his reaction was immature (and the gag didn't last for too long), but honestly I think "most" men would react that same. Also I did privately hoped for Sanji to find a mirror just out of sheer curiosity on what he would do.
I know, or at least hope you guys are propably jesting but…
You would grope the tits of someone who was supposed to be one of your dearest friends? Someone you have tried to give the impression that you're a chivalrous gentleman? Someone who is right next to you, watching you grope them in front of all of your other closest friends- some of whom are cheering it on, despite the girl being clearly uncomfortable with it?I dare say you wouln't. I like the female body as much as any other dude, but that scene was utterly disgusting to me.
Regarding the discussion of Girls Getting Fights, a key point is that its not just about Getting Fights. A good, proper One Piece one on one is just about the only times outside of their intro arcs that the camera locks perfectly on ONE character, to let them shine. And of course theres the action, but theres the character moments too. By not letting characters get fights, you are not letting them get stuff like
- Usopp standing up for Nami at Arlong Park, and for Luffys dreams at Allabasta.
- Usopps inner debate with Sogeking vs. Perona.
- Chopper sacrificing his humanity to become what he has always hated being, as a last desperate way to help his friends
- Fun stuff like Zoros goggles, or Franky and the fridge.
- ANY great Luffy vs. villain speech. They are innumerable.
And so on.
-
It's still funny to me that every few pages people use the response of "if it bothers you, don't read." Or some sort of variation but don't actually adhere to that rule themselves in pretty much every forum with a specific topic within the manga. :ninja:
Honestly, with the lulls between each chapter without digging a bit deeper sometimes I think the threads would be pretty bare.
-
Yeah, that and the "Why are you guys overanalyzing this subject? its a kids manga!" type posts always confuse me. I mean this is a debate forum. Are we supposed to just go "lol good chapter, Law did something cool" once a week, and let the forum die until the next?
-
@The:
I know, or at least hope you guys are propably jesting but…
You would grope the tits of someone who was supposed to be one of your dearest friends? Someone you have tried to give the impression that you're a chivalrous gentleman? Someone who is right next to you, watching you grope them in front of all of your other closest friends- some of whom are cheering it on, despite the girl being clearly uncomfortable with it?if my friend was hot and a complete bitch like nami, I sure would.
-
@The:
I know, or at least hope you guys are propably jesting but…
You would grope the tits of someone who was supposed to be one of your dearest friends? Someone you have tried to give the impression that you're a chivalrous gentleman? Someone who is right next to you, watching you grope them in front of all of your other closest friends- some of whom are cheering it on, despite the girl being clearly uncomfortable with it?I dare say you wouln't. I like the female body as much as any other dude, but that scene was utterly disgusting to me.
Regarding the discussion of Girls Getting Fights, a key point is that its not just about Getting Fights. A good, proper One Piece one on one is just about the only times outside of their intro arcs that the camera locks perfectly on ONE character, to let them shine. And of course theres the action, but theres the character moments too. By not letting characters get fights, you are not letting them get stuff like
- Usopp standing up for Nami at Arlong Park, and for Luffys dreams at Allabasta.
- Usopps inner debate with Sogeking vs. Perona.
- Chopper sacrificing his humanity to become what he has always hated being, as a last desperate way to help his friends
- Fun stuff like Zoros goggles, or Franky and the fridge.
- ANY great Luffy vs. villain speech. They are innumerable.
And so on.
I've think it's the most valid point any one made about female fighting for the long time, if not in the whole thread.
-
if my friend was hot and a complete bitch like nami, I sure would.
That is one of the most terrible things I've seen anyone say on this forum.
-
In addition to the points The Daz made, look at the one good fight Robin did have, at Skypeia. We got to see her reaffirm her dedication to archaeology and history. See? It's not really the cool fights we're missing out on with the ladies, it's the amazing, affirming moments like that where we get to see what the character is really all about. In a shounen series like One Piece, where the fights are a big draw, you sort of miss out if some of the characters aren't allowed to prove their own and back up their beliefs in a hot-blooded shounen battle.
if my friend was hot and a complete bitch like nami, I sure would.
What.
-
That is one of the most terrible things I've seen anyone say on this forum.
it's a joke
-
it's a joke http://www.oocities.org/wild_wizard_001/smileys3/devil-confused.gif
Your Blackbeard avatar made it too believable. :ninja:
-
-
As much as I don't like to talk about sexism on a shounen manga, I have a feeling Oda's going to have it a topic on the Wano arc. One Piece being the most popular manga/anime today, he has a perfect chance to tackle this "sexism" on a Japan-like island, with Zoro who is still likely has what happened to Kuina on mind.
-
About Sanji grabbing Nami, while being in her body. I think he wouldn't normally do it, but at the moment he was sort of drunk with excitement, unfortunately people do things that would hurt others, when they are not thinking clearly. Obviously he shouldn't have done it, as it is still her body, and she should be the only one deciding who can touch her, and who don't. But lets not make him into unredeemable monster for making some mistakes, he went overboard, but he didn't intend to cause Nami any harm.
When others laugh, I doubt, they understood how Nami feels about situation, sometimes guys in this manga are so insensitive, but they didn't laugh at Nami, but how predictable Sanji is. -
About Sanji grabbing Nami, while being in her body. I think he wouldn't normally do it, but at the moment he was sort of drunk with excitement, unfortunately people do things that would hurt others, when they are not thinking clearly. Obviously he shouldn't have done it, as it is still her body, and she should be the only one deciding who can touch her, and who don't. But lets not make him into unredeemable monster for making some mistakes, he went overboard, but he didn't intend to cause Nami any harm.
When others laugh, I doubt, they understood how Nami feels about situation, sometimes guys in this manga are so insensitive, but they didn't laugh at Nami, but how predictable Sanji is.I'll give Sanji a chance to redeem himself. I think it would be great if he apologized to her for doing it. Would have also been nice if someone else had said not cool to him. The post about why its important that each character get a fight was excellent and they perfectly put my unorganized thoughts about the issue into words.
Even though I don't always like the portrayl of the females, I still do enjoy One Piece and I do think that Oda does do some great things that I mentioned previously. (Robin being over age 25 and still considered sexy, Nami and Robin are smart and Oda shows rather than tells us, unnattractive awesome females) I did however prefer Robin pre Enies Lobby. I don't at all think that Oda is some evil sexist man, but that he might not fully realize certain implications.
I do like that Oda allows all the male characters to cry. Heck even White Beard, who is said to be the strongest man in the world was allowed to cry over Ace's death and no one threw any homophobic staments on the moment. (Though this is more of an issue of how the men are portrayed.) The male characters are very diverse, not sure if we really need it, but someone could make a thread for them if anyone wants to discuss the issues.
-
I was reading a post on tumblr and I thought they had an interesting point:
"It’s the fact that every female character is identified as a woman first, and a character second, as evidenced by the way that every time a woman is introduced someone has to comment on it: Tashigi’s men calling her Cutie Captain, the mermaids being the beautiful objects of men’s dreams, Shirahoshi being the Mermaid Princess, whose defining feature prior to introduction was that she was supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world [even more beautiful than Boa Hancock, the previously established most beautiful woman in the world], Kinemon’s introduction to the crew including defining Nami as breast-band girl, and Sanji and the G-5 stopping to swoon over Monet."
They also talk a lot about Sanji's character. Here's a link to the full post http://onepieceirks.tumblr.com/post/36830165862/xarciel-oh-dear-anon-you-have-just-opened-a
-
it's a joke http://www.oocities.org/wild_wizard_001/smileys3/devil-confused.gif
I don't get it.
Please explain the joke.@DarkFalcon:
About Sanji grabbing Nami, while being in her body. I think he wouldn't normally do it, but at the moment he was sort of drunk with excitement, unfortunately people do things that would hurt others, when they are not thinking clearly. Obviously he shouldn't have done it, as it is still her body, and she should be the only one deciding who can touch her, and who don't. But lets not make him into unredeemable monster for making some mistakes, he went overboard, but he didn't intend to cause Nami any harm.
When others laugh, I doubt, they understood how Nami feels about situation, sometimes guys in this manga are so insensitive, but they didn't laugh at Nami, but how predictable Sanji is.Please explain how committing sexual assault is forgivable if he didn't intend any harm, and how this would be any different from other crimes such as a violent crime, or theft, even while in the same body.
-
I was reading a post on tumblr and I thought they had an interesting point:
"It’s the fact that every female character is identified as a woman first, and a character second, as evidenced by the way that every time a woman is introduced someone has to comment on it: Tashigi’s men calling her Cutie Captain, the mermaids being the beautiful objects of men’s dreams, Shirahoshi being the Mermaid Princess, whose defining feature prior to introduction was that she was supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world [even more beautiful than Boa Hancock, the previously established most beautiful woman in the world], Kinemon’s introduction to the crew including defining Nami as breast-band girl, and Sanji and the G-5 stopping to swoon over Monet."
They also talk a lot about Sanji's character. Here's a link to the full post http://onepieceirks.tumblr.com/post/36830165862/xarciel-oh-dear-anon-you-have-just-opened-a
That was an excellent tumblr post! Sanji is currently my least favorite Straw Hat. I don't hate him, but I am liking him less and less. Hopefully his characterization gets better.
-
That was an excellent tumblr post! Sanji is currently my least favorite Straw Hat. I don't hate him, but I am liking him less and less. Hopefully his characterization gets better.
All Blue is the only thing that can save his character now.
-
All Blue is the only thing that can save his character now.
And All Blue is boring dream.
He needs some good backstory or to show that the lifes of his friends are more important than his personal perversions (Kalifa fight). -
And All Blue is boring dream.
He needs some good backstory or to show that the lifes of his friends are more important than his personal perversions (Kalifa fight).Well, if he actually fights a woman, that would be redeeming of his character. It would be cool if there were a woman in Wano who Zoro couldn't defeat, and Sanji was forced to step in. Three birds killed with one stone.
-
I don't see the big deal when Sanji grope Nami as joke since the character going to stop caring after less than 10 secs .
It's the same reason why i don't care when Nami physically abused the SH members all the time .
People in this type of thread try to apply real word standers or behavior and sometimes it make no sense to do so . -
Sanji pervert jokes in Punk Hazard are funny. I only find them boring and repetitive in Thriller Bark and Fishman Island.
-
I don't get it.
Please explain the joke.
Please explain how committing sexual assault is forgivable if he didn't intend any harm, and how this would be any different from other crimes such as a violent crime, or theft, even while in the same body.
Because 73 pages of people twisting their non-gender specific underwear over if the males of OP are misogynistic pigs because they give girls cute nicknames. Or how people have so few worries that they start looking for real life problems in fiction.
-
Nami and Robin are both strong, interesting characters.
Strong emotionally? probably b/c they both went through hell and back. But strong physically, that's an assumption.
I don't expect there to be no fanservice but Oda and many of the fellow apforum users should understand that t****here are female readers of this manga. All I'm asking is some fair treatment of the characters. I mean for godsake Colby is already a captain, the same level as Tashigi after the time skip.
Hancock is the only strong "pretty" female character I can remember out of how many male characters? (a lot) -
Strong emotionally? probably b/c they both went through hell and back. But strong physically, that's an assumption.
I don't expect there to be no fanservice but Oda and many of the fellow apforum users should understand that t****here are female readers of this manga. All I'm asking is some fair treatment of the characters. I mean for godsake Colby is already a captain, the same level as Tashigi after the time skip.
Hancock is the only strong "pretty" female character I can remember out of how many male characters? (a lot)Holy crap. You're right. Coby is pretty much overshadowing Tashigi now in both development and strength. At the rate he's going he'll have more development than most of the females combined.
-
Well Coby also fell into several special circumstances. He's starting to borderline Gary-Stu. Friended Luffy, trained by Garp, gained Haki randomly, had eleventy growth spurts, gained improved vision (glass are for show now apparently), promoted to Captain. Tashigi probably won't have a glass ceiling problem due to Smoker getting promotions, but she did piggy back, but then again Smoker didn't really gain rank legitimately either.
-
Nami beats up the male members of the Strawhats multiple times : A-OK.
Robin squeezes Franky's balls for a good 5 minutes: Also fine.Sanji gropes Nami's boobs once: HE MUST BURN!!! AND BEG FOR FORGIVENESS!!!
-
Wow! It's like I'm really on Tumblr!
-
Well Coby also fell into several special circumstances. He's starting to borderline Gary-Stu. Friended Luffy, trained by Garp, gained Haki randomly, had eleventy growth spurts, gained improved vision (glass are for show now apparently), promoted to Captain. Tashigi probably won't have a glass ceiling problem due to Smoker getting promotions, but she did piggy back, but then again Smoker didn't really gain rank legitimately either.
It's very odd, I'm curious to see how Oda will juggle keeping Smoker and Tashigi relevant with making Coby and Helmeppo out to be the next leaders of the Marines. I like all of them, so I hope it goes well.
Nami beats up the male members of the Strawhats multiple times : A-OK.
Robin squeezes Franky's balls for a good 5 minutes: Also fine.Sanji gropes Nami's boobs once: HE MUST BURN!!! AND BEG FOR FORGIVENESS!!!
Wow, it's like you completely ignored my post earlier about how Robin inappropriately treated Franky (and the same reasoning would apply to Nami and how she treats her crewmates), but okay, strawman it up I guess.
-
I'll give Sanji a chance to redeem himself. I think it would be great if he apologized to her for doing it. Would have also been nice if someone else had said not cool to him. The post about why its important that each character get a fight was excellent and they perfectly put my unorganized thoughts about the issue into words.
Please explain how committing sexual assault is forgivable if he didn't intend any harm, and how this would be any different from other crimes such as a violent crime, or theft, even while in the same body.
When sexual harassment is done, it usually isn't done only to get sexual gratification, but mostly to get feeling of domination over others. However there are also other situations, when the harasser doesn't realize, what he/she does is unwanted. There are situations, when harasser misreads the signs, and genuinely doesn't mean any harm and gets his/her hands of when realizing mistake - clearly not the situation with Sanji, and Nami. However, there are also situations when due to some strong emotions or chemical intoxication (like with alcohol) harassers forgets his/her touch is unwanted and gets overboard, he she still doesn't mean to harm or dominate victim, and as well gets his/her hand off soon. That's our situation - Sanji was subdue to quite an excitement being in females body, and unlike the situation of drunk, who forgotten himself, being in this state wasn't even his fault. He did bad thing, he deserves to be slapped, but at the same time that isn't sort of thing he should be condemned and hated for. He isn't sort of sexual assaulter, that wants domination over others. I agree with Kaldary, that he should apologize properly to her.
Unfortunately, save maybe for Robin, there isn't anyone in the crew, who would understand such subtleties, so it's unlikely anyone would urge him to apologize or tell him he did bad. -
Nami beats up the male members of the Strawhats multiple times : A-OK.
Robin squeezes Franky's balls for a good 5 minutes: Also fine.Sanji gropes Nami's boobs once: HE MUST BURN!!! AND BEG FOR FORGIVENESS!!!
Nami is the big sister figure after all. I see her as the female Garp as she hurts them cause its for their on good. After all, there is no defense against the Fist of Love.
Robin's ball grab… yeah that was not okay on any level. It's meant to be played for laughs, but its A WOMAN SQUEEZING A GUYS NUTS! NO ME GUSTA!I didn't really mind Sanji groping Nami cause any male with a healthy libido would do the same exact thing he did. Well not to his cartoonish extent, but still. What I didn't find cool about it was that Nami was the only one complaining about it. Brook and Usopp even cheered Sanji on as he exposed Nami's boobs to everyone. Not even Zoro said anything about it. (though I can't remember if he was there or not.)
-
I'm a little disappointed in Tashigis character which is why I hope she goes to Wano and trains with one of the swordsman there.
-
Nami beats up the male members of the Strawhats multiple times : A-OK.
Robin squeezes Franky's balls for a good 5 minutes: Also fine.Sanji gropes Nami's boobs once: HE MUST BURN!!! AND BEG FOR FORGIVENESS!!!
haha, pretty much.
-
I have never been a fan of the trope, abuse is ok/funny when its female on male. I do not believe that it is ok for a woman to hit a man. (Or a man to hit a woman, woman to hit a women, man to hit a man you get the idea.) Though Nami isn't the only character who beats up on the crew. I recall a time in Skypea when Sanji beat on Luffy and Usopp for immitating him. (You could argue that it was bad that he beat up on Usopp because Usopp at the time was a weaker character) And I think that a lot of people would agree that Garp was an abusive parent.
I did not agree with Robin squeezing Franky's balls to get him to join. No one should have been forced THAT WAY to join Luffy's crew. Even though they implied that Franky had stopped feeling pain it still wasn't appropriate. Shots to the groin should never be seen as funny and only used if a male is becoming violent. Franky however, isn't reduced to a sexual object (Heck I rarely ever see him get many votes on 'Sexiest One Piece Guys' polls.) I think it was going on with his whole pervert routine as previously he was running through the town without his speedo.
The tumblr post I read made a very good point. Oda really missed an opportunity to develop Sanji's character. From Enies Lobby (Being unable to fight Kalifa), to Thriller Bark (Finding out that Nami had been assaulted), to Cross Dresser Island (Being treated as a sexual object), to ending up in Nami's body. Unfortunantly this didn't happen and he has gotten worse.
I do agree that the other crew members should have spoken up when he groped Nami's body. Even Robin didn't say or do anything. (She could have used her DF to grow arms to hold back Sanji/Nami's arms.)
EDIT: Here's an interesting article on Sexism in Fantasy from The Mary Sue http://www.themarysue.com/sexism-in-historical-fantasy/
-
When I first saw Sanji grope himself while in Nami's body I thought of this.
!
-
All this Sanji hatred makes me sad. I like Sanji :sad:
Weird hypothetical has just occurred to me regarding the body swap in PH. As hilarious as it was having Sanji in Nami's body, I wonder how different the scene would play out if Sanji were around and had Zoro switch with Nami. Since Sanji wouldn't be in a euphoric daze, we would actually see how he would interact with Zoro and Nami. This would be a good opportunity to see how he would be forced to interact with Zoro (in Nami's body) as well as Nami (in Zoro's body). This would've been great for development, but probably not as much for laughs (which is what Oda was going for. And we probably wouldn't have had groping and so on). Now I'm really curious how Sanji would have dealt with the situation.