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Star Wars Universe - Resurrection F
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and here's the gameplay!
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Finally got to watch The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker.
I could make a long analysis, but I am sure everyone on the internet did that already and there's nothing for me to add (the last movie was from 2019 and there are websites still reviewing it every day?).
All I can say is, after I finished, I went to google to check if I was the only person who, the entire time Poe and Finn were together, was just thinking "KISS HIM!". Apparently I wasn't… at all! Although as I watched the aftermath of RoS, I realized that couple happening would be so wrong ...
! … because it should be a throuple with Rey! That 3-part hug? "NOW F***** KISS!!!"
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@.access:
Finally got to watch The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker.
I could make a long analysis, but I am sure everyone on the internet did that already and there's nothing for me to add (the last movie was from 2019 and there are websites still reviewing it every day?).
All I can say is, after I finished, I went to google to check if I was the only person who, the entire time Poe and Finn were together, was just thinking "KISS HIM!". Apparently I wasn't… at all! Although as I watched the aftermath of RoS, I realized that couple happening would be so wrong ...
! … because it should be a throuple with Rey! That 3-part hug? "NOW F***** KISS!!!"
! I think I would have liked that movie a lot more if that had happened, lol. I liked that 3-part hug though that was a nice little moment where you actually fet that they really cared about each other.
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well….it actually happen.
https://www.starwars.com/news/the-lego-star-wars-holiday-special-disney-plus-announce
even though technically its in the Lego star wars universe and therefore non-canon to the main one, i have absolutely no words to this.
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well….it actually happen.
https://www.starwars.com/news/the-lego-star-wars-holiday-special-disney-plus-announce
even though technically its in the Lego star wars universe and therefore non-canon to the main one, i have absolutely no words to this.
Why aren't they releasing the actual holiday special?
Now that Lucas is no longer in charge they may as well.
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There's not enough cocaine in the world.
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@Cyan:
There's not enough cocaine in the world.
The entire crew of Apocalypse Now snorted it all?
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I'd imagine there's issues with rights for musical performances and stuff. Can't imagine they were thinking much of rereleases in 1978 or that Lucas tried to retain them after.
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The entire crew of Apocalypse Now snorted it all?
You had two Sheen's in the cast, what you expected.
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I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Lucas actually made Disney agree to never release The Holiday Special as a condition of the sale. The Special Editions remaining the official version of the OT is definitely one such condition that Disney agreed to.
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Also, for all that the Holiday special has a curiosity factor to it, it would only hurt the brand if it saw a wide release. It was shelved forever for a reason. You'd have to put a warning label dislaimer on the front saying it's awful, and that still wouldn't help.
More likely to see the Droids tv series and the Ewok movies and Ewoks cartoon to get a re-release push. And those aren't going to happen either.
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Also, for all that the Holiday special has a curiosity factor to it, it would only hurt the brand if it saw a wide release. It was shelved forever for a reason. You'd have to put a warning label dislaimer on the front saying it's awful, and that still wouldn't help.
More likely to see the Droids tv series and the Ewok movies and Ewoks cartoon to get a re-release push. And those aren't going to happen either.
Doesn't making a dedicated parody hurt the brand almost as much?
They're openly acknowledging that a movie about an elderly Wookie masturbating is a part of the Star Wars canon.
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From here on out whenever anyone mentions "The Star Wars Christmas Special", by default media is going to point to the 2020 lego version and start pretending the old one never existed. You'll have to specify Star Wars Christmas Special 1978, or original, and that's just going to fade eventually.
Presumably the lego version isn't going to have a five minute sequence of raw Wookie dialogue, watching porn, Bea Arthur musical numbers, or half the cast obviously coked out of their minds.
Well, I mean, it actually MIGHT have some of that in parody fashion, but it'll almost certainly do it in a way that makes if actually entertaining and not cringe.
It also sounds like its going to be a greatest hits clip show of the movies with a minor narrative framing sequence.
I mean, the Muppets have had like 7 Christmas specials, you have to really know what you're hunting for to arrive at the John Denver one. Except there's actually TWO John Denver specials with the Muppets, and one of them has "Holiday" in the title and its NOT the Christmas one, so you REALLY need to know what you're looking for.
And good luck if you want to find a specific Chipmunks Christmas album, they've had nine of them.
The more things they throw the same name onto over the more decades, the more it actually buries the oldest one. Who even remembers The Ghostbusters exists except as a asterisk to The REAL Ghostbusters?
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Thaddeus Plotz will retire and not be present as a new female Latina CEO will take over the studio
That's kind of a worrying decision and I have to ask if the writers plan to make her a proper comedic antagonist or just a figurehead for diversity (which would be a very boring mistake).
Does Warner Bros have a better history than Disney on this, or are we in for another John Boyega scenario where minority characters are brought in for show only to later be sidelined and revealed as a waste of the audience's time?
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Does Warner Bros have a better history than Disney on this, or are we in for another John Boyega scenario where minority characters are brought in for show only to later be sidelined and revealed as a waste of the audience's time?
Was that what happened or just the end result of a spate of movies which were poorly planned out?
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Was that what happened or just the end result of a spate of movies which were poorly planned out?
Even in the first movie he was just there to serve the white female lead.
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Even in the first movie he was just there to serve the white female lead.
Even then still more relevance than what he got in the 2nd and 3rd movies.
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Even then still more relevance than what he got in the 2nd and 3rd movies.
Yeah but that wasn't nearly good enough.
The most interesting character in the movie was relegated to the role of "bland supportive friend" while a Mary Sue took the lead and did everything, including somehow being the vessel for us to experience the tragedy of Han Solo's death despite her barely knowing him (that role really needed to go to Luke, Leia, Chewie or Lando).
Where was Lando anyway?
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Even in the first movie he was just there to serve the white female lead.
He was literally used in the U.S. as minority bait which is really obvious with how the Chinese Poster doesn't emphasize him at all. It would have been ok if his character ever amounted to anything, especially seeing as he represented the most fascinating possible character and maintained that through the entire first movie, even as the attention continually shifted away from him and towards Rey.
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I find it bizarre how often Finns role in TLJ is just dismissed outright as a "disservice to the character" or similar. Whatever you may say about Canto Bight and how much it "matters" to the plot, Finn still has a super-clear and logical character arc; He goes from someone just tagging along because he likes Rey to someone fully invested in the Rebel Cause, which all happened independently from Rey. Finn was set up as a n enemy soldier come true believer, someone who could insipre others to join the fight. Too bad that didn't happen.
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I made a new video discussing the meaning of Balance of the Force:
This is part 1 of a 3 part discussion series about the future of Star Wars
The prophecy of the one who was meant to bring Balance to the Force was fulfilled by Anakin Skwalker. The narrative arc of the original six film saga envisioned by George Lucas was the tragedy of Darth Vader, who ultimately brought Balance to the Force in Return of the Jedi.
But what does Balance of the Force mean?
Perhaps if we can answer the question of what Balance of the Force means in the mythology of Star Wars as imagined by George Lucas, we can better understand the manner in which the sequel trilogy fits narratively and thematically as a continuation of what was once a complete six film saga, and chart a course forward for future Star Wars projects
There exists in the Star Wars Galaxy a prophecy of one who is meant to bring Balance to the Force. George Lucas made clear his intent that Anakin Skywalker, later turned Darth Vader, was, as believed by Qui-Gon Jinn, in fact the Chosen One meant to fulfill this prophecy.
Though Luke Skywalker is the hero of the Original Star Wars trilogy, his character arc culminates in the redemption of his father, rather than the destruction of the primordial evil force in the story, Darth Sidious, or the Emperor.
Anakin was ultimately responsible for the destruction of both the Jedi and the Sith. George Lucas has confirmed that, regardless of his fall from grace and Luke taking up the mantle of hero, Anakin did not loose his designated role as the Chosen One, meant to bring Balance to the Force.
Yet the question remains: What does Balance of the Force means?
For the first part of this discussion, I’ll be focusing primarily on the prequel and original trilogies. For better or worse, the sequel trilogy as it exists was not part of George Lucas original vision for Star Wars. As Dave Filoni has said in interviews and commentary, George Lucas should be seen as the arbiter of anything related to the deeper lore and mythology of Star Wars, particularly in relation to the Force.
Perhaps if we can answer the question of what Balance of the Force means in the mythology of Star Wars as imagined by Lucas, we can better understand the manner in which the sequel trilogy fits narratively and thematically as a continuation of what was once a complete six film saga.
George Lucas based the mythology in Star Wars largely upon the Monomyth or the Hero’s Journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in ‘The Hero With a Thousand Faces.’ Campbell was himself influenced by the work of Carl Jung, who proposed the existence of archetypal forces which emerge from the collective unconscious. These archetypes are ancient patterns of personality, distinct from the individual unconscious described by Sigmund Freud. They, manifest in the real world, taking different shapes or forms when filtered through the subjective lens of the individual.
Joseph Campbell’s writings on comparative mythology describe the emergence of these archetypal personas through myths, folklore, and religious stories from around the world. Campbell described the universal patterns and character types seen in the stories told in disparate societies across time as a manifestation of innate primal psychological forces. Though the names and faces vary, the forms are surprisingly constant. Campbell likened these archetypal characters to masks picked up and worn by individuals by whom they are manifest and given life.
George Lucas constructed the mythology of Star Wars by distilling these powerful universal motifs. The Force may be likened to the collective unconscious, a substratum underlying physical reality which both emerges from and gives rise to individual organic life.
The primary characters in Star Wars are modern variations of the archetypal forms including the hero, the mentor, and the shadow. We see these characters exchange masks at various stages in their lives. Notably, Anakin Skywalker, a representationn of the hero in the prequel trilogy, later dons the mask of the shadow through an experience of death and rebirth as Darth Vader. Jung described the archetypes as inherited potentials which take different shapes when actualized through the thoughts and behaviors of an individual. The Dark Side of the Force itself may thus be described as a representation universal ‘shadow’ archetype.
The 'shadow' is an inextricable aspect of an individual psyche. It is the archetypal persona with the potential to do evil things. Every person has a shadow. Jung wrote of 'confronting and synthesizing the shadow', meaning evil is unrealized potential that exists within the individual. To confront and synthesize the shadow is to recognize one's weaknesses, the paths that could lead one to act upon those ideas and manifest the 'shadow' archetype in the world. Darth Vader always existed as a potential within Anakin, which was actualized when he chose to put on the mask of the shadow.
George, in various interviews, has simplified the dichotomy between the light and dark sides of the Force as representations of compassion and selfishness respectively. So what then is meant by balance? An equal devotion to or manifestation of both good and evil, light and dark? At the end of the original six film saga, both the Jedi and Sith have been destroyed so many have speculated that total devotion to the light side of the Force was the primary flaw of the Jedi as was total devotion to the Dark Side a flaw of the Sith. But this interpretation would have no basis in any real world moral or ethic. It would imply that total devotion to good, to compassion, is a moral evil, a notion which is not reflected in any of our religious or mythological stories.
There are no ‘Grey Jedi’; Anakin balances the Force, not by embracing or blending the ideals of both the Jedi and the Emperor, but by wholly rejecting the Dark Side. The original trilogy concludes with the Return of the Jedi, the return of the light; achieving balance. Luke Skywalker and his sister Leia Organa remain to rebuild a New Jedi Order after the fall of The Empire.
But wait, what about the fall of the Jedi order? In the path to achieving Balance, thousands of Jedi were also killed. Weren’t they servants to the Light Side of the Force? Why was the Jedi Order destroyed? Was this the ‘Will of the Force’? Often we see in our religious stories, purgation of the religious institutions after they have been corrupted and deviated from their original mandate. The Jedi were devoted to the Light Side of the Force, but that does not mean their decisions and actions were morally aligned with the light.
Returning to Jung, if we consider ‘the shadow’, the Dark Side of the Force, to be an inextricable aspect of any individual or institution, it cannot be eliminated because it exists within all beings, as a byproduct of free will. The collective unconscious is an inherited trait. Call it original sin, passed down from primordial forebears. As long as good is a choice, evil is a possibility. This means that the light must continually confront and synthesize the shadow, the dark side – not by integrating and acting upon those ideas or desires, but by recognizing their existence, keeping them in check, and actively choosing not to manifest the dark side in the material world.
When balance is achieved, neither light nor dark ceases to exist. The light must be actualized, and the dark must remain unrealized potential, the byproduct of choice. To 'eliminate' the dark side, is to eliminate free will, freedom to choose the light, and thus the individual no longer has agency - and becomes an automaton. Imbalance.
I think there's evidence for this understanding - in the final arc of Clone Wars season 6, Yoda's journey leads him to a place where he confronts his shadow (visually represented as an evil form of Yoda), and overcomes his own darkness. Even Yoda has this dark seed within himself which has the potential to grow and emerge through thought and action if it remains unrecognized and it is only through recognition of that evil that resides in himself that he is able to attain the path to 'immortality'. Prior to this revelation and confrontation, Yoda believed himself to be devoid of, separate from the Dark Side. The shadow within himself was unrecognized.
You could apply this to the Jedi Order as a whole. Anakin is the dark potential, the shadow, of the Jedi Order, which the council fails to recognize. The Jedi serve the light, but don't realize the cracks in the foundation which ultimately allow Anakin's turn to Darth Vader. Qui-Gon (not surprisingly the first Jedi seen in the story to attain the path to becoming a Force Ghost, instructing Yoda from beyond the grave), is likely the one Jedi who could have prevented Anakin's fall. Qui-Gon was the father figure absent in Anakin’s life. That role was later vacated by Qui-Gon’s death at the hands of Darth Maul, and later filled by Chancellor Palpatine. Qui-Gon’s instruction to Obi-Wan in the opening scene of The Phantom Menace to obey the will of the Living Force signals his role as a prophet like figure to the Jedi Order. Yet the Jedi Council failed to head his words which served as herald for their impending destruction.
The Order had become rigid, too strongly set in tradition, to adapt to new ideas (evidenced by their initial refusal to train Anakin because he was 'too old', despite the fact that he very well could be the 'chosen one', which introduces a sort of Pharisaical allusion). They had too closely aligned themselves politically with the Republic and thus served as Generals rather than Peace Keepers during the Clone Wars. Evil commanded both armies, yet the Jedi chose a side. Neutrality was the only path that could have averted Sidious trap. All of these factors play directly into the events which result in Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader, the destruction of the Jedi Order, and the fall of the Republic. Essentially, there existed an imbalance in the Force. The Jedi's vision is clouded by the Dark Side - because their ideology has fallen out of alignment with the Light Side of the Force. They attributed this lack of foresight to some external shroud, failing to recognize that the dark potentia within their own ranks in the form of Anakin Skywalker, whose fall was in part precipitated by their own corruption.
Palpatine’s machinations were indeed a very real threat whose identity as the puppet master orchestrating the events of the Clone Wars remained elusive as a result of the Jedi Council’s clouded vision. The Jedi’s inability to recognize this evil Force in such close proximity The Jedi may be understood to mean the Force was not speaking to them because they weren’t truly listening. The Jedi of the Old Republic, prior to Darth Bane’s creation of the Rule of Two, fought to vanquish an external evil Force. For a thousand years, the Jedi believed they had succeeded in eradicating this external force of evil. Just like war, peace is a snare. Over time, their alignment with the light side of the Force drifted. In bright sunlight, high noon, contrast is reduced. The shadows become difficult to see. Only at sunset, the twilight of the republic, as the light fades and the shadows grow deep do they recognize the one they cast, following their own footsteps.
Balance does not mean equal parts light and dark manifest in the world, nor does it mean the eradication of the dark, but the proper orientation of light and dark, where the former is actualized in the world and the dark remains unrealized potential. The only way to maintain balance is to realize that the dark resides within. Any other path leads to imbalance. To view the dark side as something which can be eliminated, as did the Jedi, is externalize it and thus leave the shadow within unchecked, able to metastasize and overtake the light.
Consider that Luke, in his training on Dagobah, enters the Dark Side cave and confronts a vision of Vader, ultimately witnessing his own face behind the mask. He later learns that Vader is his father - thus Luke confronts his own shadow. Vader, the external evil he must confront is his own blood. Thus he must understand and come to terms with the knowledge that the very potential for evil which transformed Anakin Skywalker also exists within himself. Interestingly, this revelation is also what allows Luke to see the light remaining in Vader, inapparent to even Yoda and Sidious, which ultimately brings about Vader's redemption, the defeat of the Emperor, and salvation of the Galaxy. It follows that, if the potential for evil, actualized by Vader resides within Luke, the son, then so too must the good that is in Luke reside within Anakin, the father.
During the final throne room confrontation in Return of the Jedi, Luke casts aside his lightsaber, refusing to strike down Darth Vader in anger. Luke recognizes the shadow in himself, visually represented by his mechanical hand – the first step to becoming more machine than man. In the ultimate act of non-violence, Luke saves the Galaxy, not by destroying Vader, but by refusing to become him. He has no hope of defeating the Emperor. Luke recognizes his inability to destroy the Emperor, the external source of evil, yet understands he retains power over his own choices, the destiny of his own soul. Luke is willing to suffer, sacrificially to preserve that light in himself and thus brings Anakin back from the Dark Side of the Force.
Yoda and Obi-Wan mentored Luke, but failed to see this potential in Vader. Their advice to Luke was flawed. Obi-Wan told Luke that if he refused to kill Vader the Emperor would have already won. Yet, the Emperor failed because of Luke’s refusal to kill Vader.
Anakin ultimately was the instrument by which balance was achieved. He finally synthesized his shadow, Vader, when he saw the suffering of his child at the hands of the Emperor. Anakin, in the last moments of his life, refused the shadow, returned to the light, and defeated the Emperor, the symbolic source of imbalance. The mask of the shadow was at last removed and Anakin wass able to look on his son with his own eyes one final time.
Luke and Leia, twins born of a union unsanctioned by the previous Jedi Order, were left at the end of the Saga to rebuild this institution meant to serve the light side of the Force. Luke did not reject the teachings of Obi-Wan and Yoda wholesale. He integrated their instruction, but also followed the will of the Living Force, recognizing it was not the will of the light to destroy Vader.
At the end of the six film saga, Balance was achieved and harmony restored to the Galaxy. The shadow of the Jedi Order was confronted and synthesized. Anakin was redeemed and Vader returned to the ethereal plane of the archetypes, unrealized potential. Yet we know George Lucas, at the time he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, had written stories for a sequel trilogy of films focusing on the original trilogy heroes and the grandchildren of Darth Vader. So the question must be asked, what story remains to be told after the Force has been balanced? The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker were not based on those original drafts, so they don’t provide a clear picture of Lucas vision for the concluding chapter of Star Wars. We will need to look to other sources to extrapolate a potential narrative and thematic trajectory for the story building from the balance achieved at the end of Return of the Jedi.
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@Daz:
I find it bizarre how often Finns role in TLJ is just dismissed outright as a "disservice to the character" or similar. Whatever you may say about Canto Bight and how much it "matters" to the plot, Finn still has a super-clear and logical character arc; He goes from someone just tagging along because he likes Rey to someone fully invested in the Rebel Cause, which all happened independently from Rey. Finn was set up as a n enemy soldier come true believer, someone who could insipre others to join the fight. Too bad that didn't happen.
Finn was race bait. Promoted heavily as the lead in the first movie and then bait and switched into the secondary hero, which was fine. What sucked in the second movie was that his actions were completely inconsequential to the plot. And he's also preached to about the importance of the rebellion and the horrors of war, when it was the direct knowledge of those horrors along with his own empathy that caused him to find comfort in Rey and Poe in the first place. Now it's true that he hadn't dedicated his life to the Resistance in the first film, but the meandering b-plot mess we got was not good. It could have been completely removed from the film and nothing changes for the entire trilogy, let alone TLJ. Also, did I say that it's a fucking mess? Finn caring about Rey over the resistance is Star Wars! It's Anakin, it's Luke, it's why his character was compelling in the first place: former storm trooper with a big heart who might have some sort of force sensitivity. If Rian really wanted to dirty shit up, offing the first order/rebellion dynamic would have been much more interesting than killing Snoke.
That's a pretty big disservice to a character who was the heart of TFA and one of its three pillars from a story perspective. Giving him a larger role also would have forced them to inch away, even if just slightly, from the Skywalker/Palpatine shit, which they shouldn't have even delved in if they couldn't deliver on at the same level as the originals … or the prequels.
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VIDEO REVIEW
I really like how seamlessly the episodes this season flow into one another. The episodes are titled ‘chapters’ and viewed together, they really do feel like a single continuous story.
Another happy landing for the Razor Crest. The crash scene, again, really reminded me of the opening scene from Serenity. The visual effects for the entire landing sequence were very impressive. Particularly the shot where the ship is pulled out of the ocean. Also, great editing in the cut to the opening credits.
The big walking cranes used to lift the ship out of the sea were pretty cool. Nice to see new ships / vehicles in Star Wars.
Trask is immediately more interesting than… basically any of the worlds from the sequel trilogy films. Really love the nautical design. The stage craft technology used on The Mandalorian is clearly impressive, but this is the most populated world we have yet seen in The Mandalorian. Most planets on the show have been rather desolate, but Trask is a bustling sea port which feels vibrant and alive.
Again, the world building is really excellent. Trask’s sea port is populated primarily by Mon Calamri and Quarans, aliens seen throughout the Galaxy on aquatic worlds such as Mon Cala.
Even the inn Mando visits has a distinct and unique atmosphere from other locations like the Mos Eisley Cantina, in part due to its automated chowder delivery system. The Mon Calamari waiter tells Mando he needs to eat because seats are hard to come by, which means, the inn is booked solid. Impressive for a restaurant which seemingly only has one option on the menu.
Something I have always loved about Star Wars is the overengineered solutions to simple problems because the technology happens to be available. For a restaurant which seats maybe 50 people, pouring chowder by hand would seemingly be the optimal solution when you consider the cost of a chowder delivery system and the manpower involved in sanitization and repair.
All these small details work together to build a unique and memorable setting.
I guess, some might call it poetic justice for the child to be swallowed whole by some type of sea creature after the many frog eggs he swallowed whole last week.
The appearance of Bo Katan and the other Mandalorians was awesome! This isn’t the first time we have seen a character from animation make the jump to live action. Yet this somehow feels special. I think Katee Sackhoff playing the same character in both animation and live action makes the transition seamless and strengthens the continuity of the Star Wars universe.
When she arrived on the scene, Bo Katan was immediately recognizable based on her helmet design, but I also want to commend Katee Sackhoff’s performance because even her mannerisms reminded me of her animated incarnation.
The scene where Mando immediately assumes they aren’t Mandalorian and asks from whom they stole their armor because showing your face is… not the way, was great. Particularly love how ironic it is for Din Djarin to believe someone from Mandalore’s ruling class isn’t a true Mandalorian.
This interaction was really interesting and I get the feeling it hints toward perhaps a building overarching narrative.
The only Mandalorians seen in the show so far have been from Dyn Jarren’s culvert – and thus hold to the same code.
I’m really interested in learning more about the Children of the Watch. I’m wondering if we’ll see growing tension between Bo Katan’s alliance of Mandalorians and this religious cult dedicated to The Way. Could this pull in more elements from the old Knights of the Old Republic series?
It’s interesting to see the story weaving in more elements of the Expanded Universe here, in addition to the Filoniverse animated series storylines.
Mando initially refuses Bo Katan’s help on the basis that there is only one Mandalorian way – the one to which he adheres. After a second rescue, however, he listens to Bo Katan’s story.
She tries to recruit him to her cause to reclaim Mandalore. We have here yet another really interesting conversation, from which we learn more about Mando’s misconception regarding the Mandalorian homeworld.
It was cool to see Titus Welliver, the man in black from Lost and Felix Blake from Agents of SHIELD, play the Captain of the Imperial ship. And the officer Mando throws out of the airlock is played by the guy who ate Michael Scott’s chocolate turtles and sucks at bowling in Parks & Rec.
Was great to see Giancarlo Esposito back… can’t wait to see more of Moff Gideon. We didn’t see much of him in season 1, but I get the feeling he’ll play a much bigger role than standard Imperial Commander villain.
Can’t wait to see Ahsoka! She’s easily one of my favorite Star Wars characters. I wonder if Sabine will still be with her? Rex? Will we get an update on the search for Ezra Bridger? Is this going to spin off into an animated Rebels sequel? Or will The Mandalorian double as a Rebels sequel trilogy? So many questions I can’t wait to have answered!
Overall, I thought this was an excellent episode and I’m really excited to see where the rest of the season goes. Dave Filoni is set to write and direct the fifth episode of the season so even though Mando and the Child depart from Trask knowing Ahsoka’s location, I feel like they’re likely to be diverted in the next episode. It would just seem fitting for Dave to write and direct Ahsoka’s first live action appearance given the prominent role he had in helping to create her character and guide her story arc.
I brought up the idea last week that the second season is following a similar plot structure to the first and it seems that trend continues here. Again, the third season of both seasons has focused heavily on Dyn Jarren’s interactions with a group of Mandalorians.
If this pattern holds, the fourth episode will be a mostly standalone adventure. Speaking of which, Bryce Dallas Howard directed this episode and I think she did an excellent job. She previously directed the fourth season of the first season and though I still thought it was quite enjoyable, I thought it was overall the weakest of the season. This was a remarkable improvement.
The credits list Simon Kasssianides character as Axe Woves. Yet another Agents of SHIELD actor.
Din Djarin: This is the Way
Bo Katan: This is the Way
Axe Woves: Will my compliance be rewarded?Though the series has been primarily focused on the solo adventures of the lone wolf and cub, Din Djarin and the Child, from this episode I get the impression that we’re seeing the beginnings of a much grander narrative. Mandalore has such a rich history in Star Wars both in the animated series like The Clone Wars and Rebels and in the expanded universe stories.
Giancarlo Esposito hinted that they already have plans for the third and fourth seasons and Jon Favreau has said that the storytelling may expand to put the spotlight on a wider cast of characters in the future.
I’m a big fan of the animated series, particularly The Clone Wars, so to see a live action series matching the tone and scale of those stories is really exciting.
This is the way to make great Star Wars!
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Patty Jenkins will apparently be directing a Rogue Squadron film…..should I be cynical or hopeful at this film being screwed up in some way?
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Did you guys see all the announcements? A whole ton of Star Wars shows are coming to Disney Plus
Am I the only one excited for the Ashoka TV Show? It was cool seeing her in the Mandalorian but now she’s getting her own show :)
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VIDEO: Which Jedi Will Return?
In the sixth episode of The Mandalorian season 2, Grogu was placed on the seeing stone in the ancient Jedi temple on Tython as Ahsoka instructed. He successfully called out through the Force, but Moff Gideon’s Dark Troopers descended and abducted him before a Force Sensitive mentor could arrive.
Given that Grogu successfully called out through the Force in the sixth season, I feel like it’s really likely a Force user arrives at the eleventh hour in the finale.
I want to run through some of the options for who that Jedi character might be. There were no direct hints in the episode itself, so this isn’t really a theory, so much as it is a guess based on the available options.
Let’s start with the most well-known Jedi still living in the post Return of the Jedi era, Luke Skywalker. We know that Luke eventually rebuilds a Jedi Academy which eventually collapses thanks to Ben Solo turned Kylo Ren. I do believe Luke and Ahsoka eventually need to cross paths, but I’m not sure that now is the right time for Luke to enter the story.
In last week’s Disney investor event, Kathleen Kennedy announced that the Mandalorian, Rangers of the New Republic, and Ahsoka will be building to a big event – and I believe that will likely be a crossover adaptation of Heir to the Empire. As such, I feel like we might need to wait longer for Luke’s return.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be really interesting if Luke shows up here – I’m really interested to see in new canon exactly what Luke is doing in the direct aftermath of the Original Trilogy. De-aging technology has become – so I imagine Mark Hamill could reprise his role here.
However, five years after Return of the Jedi, Luke probably isn’t yet ready to start his academy and thus wouldn’t seem to be a great choice for Grogu’s mentor.
A second option I have seen suggested is Cal Kestis from the game Jedi Fallen Order. I haven’t played the game, but I know it stars Cameron Monaghan as a Jedi survivor of Order 66. Assuming he survives the game, it’s entirely possible he’s still out in the Galaxy somewhere in the post-Empire era and as such is certainly a possibility. Cameron Monaghan who provided voice and motion capture for the character has appeared in several live action series like Gotham, so he certainly could make the jump to live action in Star Wars. Katee Sackhoff already set the precedent earlier this season.
I can’t see any downsides other than the fact that the character may not be familiar to non-gamers, but I’m not sure that’s a problem given the fact that we’re now seeing characters from the animated series which didn’t necessarily reach as broad of an audience as the films.
Option number three is Mace Windu – and yes, Mace is presumed dead in Revenge of the Sith, but Samuel L. Jackson has actively campaigned for his character’s survival – even to the man in charge, George Lucas.
I have always been a believer that an older, one-armed Mace Windu would eventually make his way back into Star Wars and perhaps now the time is right. There was a hint that someone helped Grogu escape from the Temple unharmed. Perhaps Mace rushed back to the Temple and extracted a valuable asset before Anakin arrived with the 501st to execute Order 66.
Samuel L. Jackson is presently 71 and Mace would be 81 in canon around the time The Mandalorian takes place, so the timeline would work out pretty well.
While I’m confident Mace will eventually make his return, I’m not sure this will be the right time. If he was able to return to the Temple to rescue Grogu, he would also have been able to warn the other Jedi in the Temple. I imagine if Mace survived, his wounds were pretty serious after his battle with Palpatine and thus he was out of commission as order 66 took place.
Option number four would be either an unknown brand new Jedi character or one more familiar to fans of the EU like Kyle Katarn or Quinlan Vos. I feel like an unknown character would fail to generate much buzz – particularly after this season brought back Ahsoka and Boba Fett. As such, as much as I acknowledge this as a possibility, I think it’s rather unlikely. Someone like Quinlan Vos or Kyle Katarn, famous in the EU could make sense. Dave Filoni has pulled characters like Thrawn and Rukh into canon – and recently dropped Dark Troopers into season 2 of The Mandalorian. That said Vos has limited screen time in canon and Kyle Katarn hasn’t made his way into new Disney canon.
The sixth and, in my opinion, most likely option is Ezra Bridger. Ahsoka demanded the location of Grand Admiral Thrawn from Morgan Eslbeth, likely in her search for Ezra. He would seem like the perfect fit to hear Grogu’s call. At the end of Rebels, Ezra’s training with Kanan was complete – and so perhaps it’s time he takes on an apprentice of his own. In the Rebels epilogue, Ahsoka and Sabine set out to search for Ezra, but perhaps with Grogu’s help, he will find them.
The last option, and one I hope doesn’t come to pass is that a Sith or Force user adept in the Dark Side of the Force answers Grogu’s call. Din Djarin is a good judge of character, but he isn’t Force sensitive – and thus would not necessarily be able to detect disguised malice. Even Yoda and the Jedi Council failed to detect Darth Sidious in close proximity. Grogu was left in a desperate situation and the seeds are perhaps planted for his struggle with the Dark Side of the Force.
If Mando and Grogu are parted, perhaps learning that the one who has taken him in is in fact a disciple of the Dark Side will provide the narrative imperative for Mando’s arc in season 3 – as he attempts to rescue Grogu from the mentor with whom he was entrusted at the end of the second season.
That said, I don’t really know what Dark Side users would be available. The exact role Palpatine plays in the creation of Snoke is presently unclear. George Lucas indicated that Maul would have become the Godfather of crime in the post-Empire Galaxy in his version of the sequel trilogy, but in canon, Maul died before A New Hope in the Rebels episode ‘Twin Suns’. I’m not sure that there are any other notable Dark Side users left alive to come take Grogu from Mando.
So as I said, my money here is on Ezra Bridger, but I’m sure there are other options I neglected to mention here.
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11/10. That was amazing. I cried.
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I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Lucas actually made Disney agree to never release The Holiday Special as a condition of the sale. The Special Editions remaining the official version of the OT is definitely one such condition that Disney agreed to.
I would be surprised if Lucas hadn't been brainwashed into and agreement at all.
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Mando last episode spoilers:
! I've always loved the scene of Darth Vader slaughtering everyone at the end of Rogue One. It illustrated perfectly how terrifying a force user is, and in particular Darth Vader in that instance, despite the limitations of his suit. What that scene did for a Sith, this episode of Mandelorian did for a Jedi.
! As soon as Luke arrived and the orchestral music starts, it was perfect build up. A perfect execution of a hero coming to save the day. And I've always loved the calm demeanor of ROTJ Luke. So confident. Got it all figured out. Makes me wish the sequel trilogy hadn't happened..
! I didn't particularly enjoy Ahsoka's fight against that woman with the staff. A force user has heighten senses and all that and yet she struggled so.
! The CGI on Luke was bad but, I'm fine with it. Everyone keeps trowing Sebastian Stan's name out there. But the effect probably wouldn't be as big if it was another face under that hood. Dunno. -
Mando last episode spoilers:
! I've always loved the scene of Darth Vader slaughtering everyone at the end of Rogue One. It illustrated perfectly how terrifying a force user is, and in particular Darth Vader in that instance, despite the limitations of his suit. What that scene did for a Sith, this episode of Mandelorian did for a Jedi.
! As soon as Luke arrived and the orchestral music starts, it was perfect build up. A perfect execution of a hero coming to save the day. And I've always loved the calm demeanor of ROTJ Luke. So confident. Got it all figured out. Makes me wish the sequel trilogy hadn't happened..
! I didn't particularly enjoy Ahsoka's fight against that woman with the staff. A force user has heighten senses and all that and yet she struggled so.
! The CGI on Luke was bad but, I'm fine with it. Everyone keeps trowing Sebastian Stan's name out there. But the effect probably wouldn't be as big if it was another face under that hood. Dunno.Can we just put Favreau and Filoni in a position akin to Feige for the Star Wars Franchise? They both nailed what made Star Wars what it was. And I loved the return of ol' school special effects, like have make up, prosthetic and puppet masks for most of the non humans, fakelly real always beat realistic fake.
! On CGI Luke it didn't bother me much, in the same way I wasn't bothered by CGI Tarkin in Rogue One. I just don't hope it becomes a trend for substitute dead actors for CGI faces (like more Tarkin and Leia's). I wonder in the S3 will have Din joining Bo-Katan or will it be the Book of Boba Fett.
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! I wish they'd spent more time on CG Luke, as well as letting him be a little goofy. He was way too stiff for that scene where he talks to Mando and Grogu, IMO.
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Can we just put Favreau and Filoni in a position akin to Feige for the Star Wars Franchise?
Will of F.
I'm actually surprised Feige doesn't have a statue in Disney Land yet.
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! On CGI Luke it didn't bother me much, in the same way I wasn't bothered by CGI Tarkin in Rogue One. I just don't hope it becomes a trend for substitute dead actors for CGI faces (like more Tarkin and Leia's). I wonder in the S3 will have Din joining Bo-Katan or will it be the Book of Boba Fett.
! I didn't watch the first episode of Mando until the second one was out and I'd heard about Baby Joda. I thought it would just going to be a bounty hunting show. I don't think the show needs Grogu to survive, but I think it needs the heart that that relationship brought to the show.
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A few days late to the party, but it was really good to see the real Luke Skywalker again. I'm not ashamed to say I teared up when he showed up.
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! Its weird to see so many mentions of "real" Luke Skywalker considering that it was non-seamless de-aged creation who only shows up briefly at the very end of a seperate story for a cool action scene. Also the whole thing about the Return of the Jedi climax being about Luke rejecting violence. I guess people really do hate Last Jedi that very much.
At this point, as someone who did like Last Jedi, it feels like Star Wars is definetively Not For Me anymore. I was tentatively getting interested in Mandalorian because it sounded like it could stand mostly on its own feet storytelling-wise, but everything about the second season becoming a nexus point for Fan Favorite Cameos I don't care about or know of who in turn get spun off into their own shows sound like everything I didn't want. Its like an never ending nostalgia-slathered ice cream buffet.
Like, the fact that we're getting an Obi Wan show for the express purpose of having an 'proper epic rematch with Darth Vader' which we already know can never amount to anything and will exists only because the original fight is "lame" or whatever makes me feel so numb. Numb and tired. It sounds like even more of a parody concept of IP milking than Chris Evans trying to explain the new Buzz Lightyear movie. The canon is being endlessly looped back on and referenced to an extent that makes Kingdom Hearts go "whoah there, take it easy!"
As someone who was surpremely hopeful for the brave new Star Wars world in the pre TFA days, and was excited to see what fresh new directions the franchise could be pushed in, I now couldn't possibly be more jaded on the whole thing.
Ugh. Not liking Star Wars sucks.
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@Daz:
! Its weird to see so many mentions of "real" Luke Skywalker considering that it was non-seamless de-aged creation who only shows up briefly at the very end of a seperate story for a cool action scene. Also the whole thing about the Return of the Jedi climax being about Luke rejecting violence. I guess people really do hate Last Jedi that very much.
At this point, as someone who did like Last Jedi, it feels like Star Wars is definetively Not For Me anymore. I was tentatively getting interested in Mandalorian because it sounded like it could stand mostly on its own feet storytelling-wise, but everything about the second season becoming a nexus point for Fan Favorite Cameos I don't care about or know of who in turn get spun off into their own shows sound like everything I didn't want. Its like an never ending nostalgia-slathered ice cream buffet.
Like, the fact that we're getting an Obi Wan show for the express purpose of having an 'proper epic rematch with Darth Vader' which we already know can never amount to anything and will exists only because the original fight is "lame" or whatever makes me feel so numb. Numb and tired. It sounds like even more of a parody concept of IP milking than Chris Evans trying to explain the new Buzz Lightyear movie. The canon is being endlessly looped back on and referenced to an extent that makes Kingdom Hearts go "whoah there, take it easy!"
As someone who was surpremely hopeful for the brave new Star Wars world in the pre TFA days, and was excited to see what fresh new directions the franchise could be pushed in, I now couldn't possibly be more jaded on the whole thing.
Ugh. Not liking Star Wars sucks.
There's nothing wrong with liking the last jedi. I apologize if what I said was out of line, but to me that wasn't Luke Skywalker in tlj. He was so ridiculously out of character that I just can't accept it. But that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the new movies. The sequel trilogy took the story in a new direction, and while I personally didn't like it, many people did. Just means we have different ideas on the story and characters. For the record I actually like tfa, I felt it was a little derivative of a new hope, but it was a good set up for a new trilogy. And there were things in tlj I did like as well. Rey being a nobody for example. There were just more things I didn't like that unfortunately tipped the balance for me.
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@Daz:
! Its weird to see so many mentions of "real" Luke Skywalker considering that it was non-seamless de-aged creation who only shows up briefly at the very end of a seperate story for a cool action scene. Also the whole thing about the Return of the Jedi climax being about Luke rejecting violence. I guess people really do hate Last Jedi that very much.
At this point, as someone who did like Last Jedi, it feels like Star Wars is definetively Not For Me anymore. I was tentatively getting interested in Mandalorian because it sounded like it could stand mostly on its own feet storytelling-wise, but everything about the second season becoming a nexus point for Fan Favorite Cameos I don't care about or know of who in turn get spun off into their own shows sound like everything I didn't want. Its like an never ending nostalgia-slathered ice cream buffet.
Like, the fact that we're getting an Obi Wan show for the express purpose of having an 'proper epic rematch with Darth Vader' which we already know can never amount to anything and will exists only because the original fight is "lame" or whatever makes me feel so numb. Numb and tired. It sounds like even more of a parody concept of IP milking than Chris Evans trying to explain the new Buzz Lightyear movie. The canon is being endlessly looped back on and referenced to an extent that makes Kingdom Hearts go "whoah there, take it easy!"
As someone who was surpremely hopeful for the brave new Star Wars world in the pre TFA days, and was excited to see what fresh new directions the franchise could be pushed in, I now couldn't possibly be more jaded on the whole thing.
Ugh. Not liking Star Wars sucks.
For me, the original trilogy will always be the definitive Star Wars and…that's really all that matters to me. All these new movies and TV shows are nice and all, but I don't really get that invested in them in terms of expanding the story or characters. They're just (for the most part) really nice, really polished fan creations. Cause, you know, who isn't a fan of Star Wars, right?
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I will never understand how people keep saying Luke was out of character in TLJ. Are you basing it on the novels and comics or something?
Because Luke is ABSOLUTELY the guy that lets his emotions get to him, whines about everything, and eventually decided that using a lightsaber was a BAD thing. Trained by Yoda that you DON'T use the force to attack, only defense. The last time he uses a saber he almost kills his own father, then he throws it away and that's how he ultimately wins. ANd then the next timem he picks up a lightsaber its again, in a momemnt of anger and rage and he almost kills his nephew… and instantly regrets is.
So he backs off and cuts himself off where he can't do any more harm. But he still comes back around and does the hero thing when he needs to do it.
He's a farmboy that went to war, became a huge hero, ascended to mythic status, began to believe in his own hype, and then fucked up horribly, then ran from it. It's consistent... it just feels out of left fields because we skipped ahead 40 years while other media paitned a completely different picture. (ANd really TFA painted him into that corner where he'd done something that made him want to hide away.. That wasn't the fault of TLJ.)
Luke going into a battle sword ablazing cutting down guys left and right CLint Eastwood style like it's nothing is NOT Luke. Heck, it's barely even Star Wars really. It's the cool thing fans want, that video games and the spinoffs do, and that the Clone Wars made standard operation for all Jedi, but its not at all appropriate to the character or any of the actual action he did in the original trilogy.
I know, time marches on and we expect all Jedi to be super battle gods now and that's why everyone loved the Vader scene at the end of the spinoff, and now the Luke scene, but originally they weren't about doing that stuff. Partly cause technology but partly because that wasn't the message. Like, the whole thing is based around anti Vietnam sentiment and being in tune with nature and love is more powerful than armies, and that's part of the franchise DNA.
Luke shouldn't be a mythic uber mega hero, that's not who he was, that's what decades of spinoffs made him into.
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They were droids, so I say it's fine. It's also properly satisfying.
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I will never understand how people keep saying Luke was out of character in TLJ. Are you basing it on the novels and comics or something?
Because Luke is ABSOLUTELY the guy that lets his emotions get to him, whines about everything, and eventually decided that using a lightsaber was a BAD thing. Trained by Yoda that you DON'T use the force to attack, only defense. The last time he uses a saber he almost kills his own father, then he throws it away and that's how he ultimately wins. ANd then the next timem he picks up a lightsaber its again, in a momemnt of anger and rage and he almost kills his nephew… and instantly regrets is.
So he backs off and cuts himself off where he can't do any more harm. But he still comes back around and does the hero thing when he needs to do it.
He's a farmboy that went to war, became a huge hero, ascended to mythic status, began to believe in his own hype, and then fucked up horribly, then ran from it. It's consistent... it just feels out of left fields because we skipped ahead 40 years while other media paitned a completely different picture. (ANd really TFA painted him into that corner where he'd done something that made him want to hide away.. That wasn't the fault of TLJ.)
Luke going into a battle sword ablazing cutting down guys left and right CLint Eastwood style like it's nothing is NOT Luke. Heck, it's barely even Star Wars really. It's the cool thing fans want, that video games and the spinoffs do, and that the Clone Wars made standard operation for all Jedi, but its not at all appropriate to the character or any of the actual action he did in the original trilogy.
I know, time marches on and we expect all Jedi to be super battle gods now and that's why everyone loved the Vader scene at the end of the spinoff, and now the Luke scene, but originally they weren't about doing that stuff. Partly cause technology but partly because that wasn't the message. Like, the whole thing is based around anti Vietnam sentiment and being in tune with nature and love is more powerful than armies, and that's part of the franchise DNA.
Luke shouldn't be a mythic uber mega hero, that's not who he was, that's what decades of spinoffs made him into.
Robby, do you genuinely believe Luke Skywalker would ever contemplate murdering a child in their sleep? That is not consistent. Luke nearly killed Vader in the heat of battle when emotions overwhelmed him for a moment, true. He didn't look into Vader's mind, see the evil monster he was, and decided to try and murder him in his sleep. He gambled his life, the lives of his friends and family, and the entire galaxy on the belief that the terrible monster that was his father wasn't too far gone. That there was good in him, and he could change. Vader had done all those evil things Luke feared Ben would do, and he still went all in on redeeming him. But with his child nephew he sensed a little bad think and went "Welp, guess I gotta kill this kid in his sleep.". It makes no sense no matter how it is spun.
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Film Crit Hulk wrote a blog post about that final episode and I think he really nailed it on the head:
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@The:
Robby, do you genuinely believe Luke Skywalker would ever contemplate murdering a child in their sleep? That is not consistent. Luke nearly killed Vader in the heat of battle when emotions overwhelmed him for a moment, true. He didn't look into Vader's mind, see the evil monster he was, and decided to try and murder him in his sleep. He gambled his life, the lives of his friends and family, and the entire galaxy on the belief that the terrible monster that was his father wasn't too far gone. That there was good in him, and he could change. Vader had done all those evil things Luke feared Ben would do, and he still went all in on redeeming him. But with his child nephew he sensed a little bad think and went "Welp, guess I gotta kill this kid in his sleep.". It makes no sense no matter how it is spun.
100%.
I'm never going to kill anyone, but if you were able to tell me with absolute certainty because you have future vision powers (and could reliably prove it) "That guy is literally the next Hitler, here's a gun" and I was fully convinced he was going to make millions suffer and cause countless deaths? Yeah, I'd think about killing someone too, even if under normal circumstances I would never. And its not like Luke has staunch no-killing super pacifist policy, he kills tons of people. Including everyone that was on the first and second death stars.
Luke went berserker and tried to kill Vader too when Leia was threatened. If the Emporer hadn't been on the sidelines literally going "good, good" he might have given in then and there. He almost went to the dark side like three times in a 10 minute span. He managed to find composure and seek another route when the villain blatantly and loudly told him exactly what was happening, he was in no way completely in control the entire time.
Plus every other time he rushes into doing something rash before he's ready and sure? Which he did constantly?
He's already seen one member of the family destroy billions of lives, he knows full well the story of Vader's corruption, and he sees all the signs and potential in there in his nephew. (And he's 100% right, as it turns out.) If he's constantly angry in his training, or just talks highly about wanting power all the time, or spends time torturing small animals, or what, we don't know, but Luke fully sees Vader 2.0 happening before his eyes. And its been happening under his training and he can't fix it because its his training already that did exactly that. And he has the power and responsibility to prevent that.
So he, for ONE MOMENT, contemplates doing a bad thing in order to spare the universe. And he instantly regrets it, suffers for it, and then punishes himself and cuts himself off from the universe and goes and hides in a place where he can wallow in misery and die and never hurt anyone again because he had a moment of weakness.
Luke was never a flawless perfect hero embodiment of all righteousness. He was human, rash, got angry, made mistakes, like all humans. His arc is VERY MUCH that of lots of soldiers. Go to war, come back a hero, become embitered when everything you fought for and the future you wanted doesn't quite happen.
Of COURSE 22 year old Luke in ANH is different than the 28 year old Luke in RotJ, and is different again from 67 year old Luke.
Heck, if we're going by the comics and novels to create the image for a purer super hero Luke, he AND Jacen (the character Kylo basically is) both go to the dark side on different occasions. It's not a new thing TLJ did.
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I will never understand how people keep saying Luke was out of character in TLJ. Are you basing it on the novels and comics or something?
Mark Hamill himself felt the same way after reading the script and said as much.
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Sure, because like the fans he had an idealized version of Luke in his head and he's lived with that specific vision for decades, so something different than what he was expecting of course wouldn't sit right.
Creative differences are legitimate. He's also apologized and walked back those statements and said he likes the final film.
(I know, that's obviously at Lucasfilms' insistence because the star badmouthing the film is a bad look. But he still walked it back and has been pretty consistent since.)
His ideal version of Luke isn't wrong. But I don't think TLJ's flawed version is wrong either, not to the degree it gets complained about.
It would have been helpful if we'd gotten another film or series along the way to bridge the 40 years a bit better than a five minute flashback. Since the abandoned EU version was much closer to what he and fans thought of but is no longer what was followed.
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I think it's wrong. I think it's not illogical and I can certainly understand how Rian Johnson got from Point A –-> Point B, but I will always contend that it was inappropriate for the nature of the series itself. He seems like he was being the smartest guy in the room trying to make the smartest Star Wars story ever and completely missed the general intended nature of the films entirely.
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100%.
I'm never going to kill anyone, but if you were able to tell me with absolute certainty because you have future vision powers (and could reliably prove it) "That guy is literally the next Hitler, here's a gun" and I was fully convinced he was going to make millions suffer and cause countless deaths? Yeah, I'd think about killing someone too, even if under normal circumstances I would never. And its not like Luke has staunch no-killing super pacifist policy, he kills tons of people. Including everyone that was on the first and second death stars.
Luke went berserker and tried to kill Vader too when Leia was threatened. If the Emporer hadn't been on the sidelines literally going "good, good" he might have given in then and there. He almost went to the dark side like three times in a 10 minute span. He managed to find composure and seek another route when the villain blatantly and loudly told him exactly what was happening, he was in no way completely in control the entire time.
Plus every other time he rushes into doing something rash before he's ready and sure? Which he did constantly?
He's already seen one member of the family destroy billions of lives, he knows full well the story of Vader's corruption, and he sees all the signs and potential in there in his nephew. (And he's 100% right, as it turns out.) If he's constantly angry in his training, or just talks highly about wanting power all the time, or spends time torturing small animals, or what, we don't know, but Luke fully sees Vader 2.0 happening before his eyes. And its been happening under his training and he can't fix it because its his training already that did exactly that. And he has the power and responsibility to prevent that.
So he, for ONE MOMENT, contemplates doing a bad thing in order to spare the universe. And he instantly regrets it, suffers for it, and then punishes himself and cuts himself off from the universe and goes and hides in a place where he can wallow in misery and die and never hurt anyone again because he had a moment of weakness.
Luke was never a flawless perfect hero embodiment of all righteousness. He was human, rash, got angry, made mistakes, like all humans. His arc is VERY MUCH that of lots of soldiers. Go to war, come back a hero, become embitered when everything you fought for and the future you wanted doesn't quite happen.
Of COURSE 22 year old Luke in ANH is different than the 28 year old Luke in RotJ, and is different again from 67 year old Luke.
Heck, if we're going by the comics and novels to create the image for a purer super hero Luke, he AND Jacen (the character Kylo basically is) both go to the dark side on different occasions. It's not a new thing TLJ did.
So despite successfully redeeming Vader who already was a monster, your Luke would sneak into a kids room and try and murder him in his sleep because he migh__t do bad things in the future? Instead of trying to help the confused kid, he would put murder as the better option? Robby, we have entirely different views on who Luke Skywalker is as a character. Is child murder a Skywalker family thing to you? (just a joke, but come on Robby.) Your Luke makes no sense based on who the character was established to be by his creator. He just gives up and decides to murder a kid? That's not Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is hopeful and compassionate. He would have at least tried to help his nephew.
Sure he sees the potential for his nephew to follow the same path as Anakin, but you know what seals the deal for the kid? His uncle trying to murder him in his sleep. Luke learns first hand that he always needs to be in control of his emotions at the end of return. That's the final completion of his character arc. Instead, in tlj Luke makes a horrendously out of character decision (doesn’t matter if it was only for one moment, that's all it takes to assassinate a character.) and rather than even attempting to make things right, runs away to hide and die, leaving the galaxy to suffer for his attempted child murder. None of it makes any sense with who his character was established to be and the lessons he learns across the ot.
I'm tired, man. I don't wanna do this anymore. Let's just agree to disagree about Luke Skywalker and let it lie, yeah? I just don't want to argue into oblivion with you when neither of us will convince the other. Truce?
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The force gives people literal visions of the future.
Yeah, I think if he was that Kylo was going to cause billions to suffer (and he did! Luke was 100% right about that!) then yes, he would, for at least a moment, think about preventing that from happening. Anyone with a conscience would.
He'd been training Kylo, for years. He'd been doing his best to teach him, and he was sending him down the dark path. What was Luke going to magically start doing different that he wasn't already doing?
s child murder a Skywalker family thing to you?
3 generations of Skywalkers have blown up planets now and kill countless people.
Sure, Luke did it for a "good" reason, but he still killed lots and lots of people. Between those two death stars there's gotta be some innocents he murdered, they weren't ALL 100% loyal Empire officers that fully deserved it. Especially on the second one that was under construction still.
Also whatever voodoo magic Snoke or Palpatine were doing to mess with his head from afar. And Palpatine twisting the genetic bloodline to do whatever the hell he did to Anakin.
Yes, the Skywalker blood is in fact at this point predisposed to going to the darkside, as an actual bloodline trait.
Sure he sees the potential for his nephew to follow the same path as Anakin, but you know what seals the deal for the kid? His uncle trying to murder him in his sleep.
Yes, and Luke IMMEDIATELY changed his mind and regretted even thinking about it. And if Kylo had remained asleep for another second he never would have even known.
If your reaction to being threatened is, not to just get revenge against the one guy that wronged you, but to decide the genocidal monster was the actual role model you wanted, that you now need to gather a literal army of nazi soldiers, conscript children, conquer planets, and then create weapons that blow up planets… then you probably weren't going to turn out well anyway no matter how nice your mentor was to you. Heck, Kylo killed Han just to kill him and prove to himself he was bad..
Luke learns first hand that he always needs to be in control of his emotions at the end of return.
Yes, because people learn lessons once and then they perfectly change their behavior forever and never make a single mistake or have emotions again after that one time. That's exactly how people work.
Luke got angry once when Vader threatened his sister and then never once had any emotions for the next 40 years? Never a single moment of doubt, fear, or anger? Never once approached the tempting Dark Side again no matter what stress or danger he was under? That's not a person, that's a robot.
I used to yell at people on this forum, and that wasn't a good thing. I learned a lesson, I matured, I got better about it. I still get angry at folks sometimes. I'm better about it, but I ain't perfect. No one is.
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The force gives people literal visions of the future.
Yeah, I think if he was that Kylo was going to cause billions to suffer (and he did! Luke was 100% right about that!) then yes, he would, for at least a moment, think about preventing that from happening. Anyone with a conscience would.
He'd been training Kylo, for years. He'd been doing his best to teach him, and he was sending him down the dark path. What was Luke going to magically start doing different that he wasn't already doing?
3 generations of Skywalkers have blown up planets now and kill countless people.
Sure, Luke did it for a "good" reason, but he still killed lots and lots of people. Between those two death stars there's gotta be some innocents he murdered, they weren't ALL 100% loyal Empire officers that fully deserved it. Especially on the second one that was under construction still.
Also whatever voodoo magic Snoke or Palpatine were doing to mess with his head from afar. And Palpatine twisting the genetic bloodline to do whatever the hell he did to Anakin.
Yes, the Skywalker blood is in fact at this point predisposed to going to the darkside, as an actual bloodline trait.
Yes, and Luke IMMEDIATELY changed his mind and regretted even thinking about it. And if Kylo had remained asleep for another second he never would have even known.
If your reaction to being threatened is, not to just get revenge against the one guy that wronged you, but to decide the genocidal monster was the actual role model you wanted, that you now need to gather a literal army of nazi soldiers, conscript children, conquer planets, and then create weapons that blow up planets… then you probably weren't going to turn out well anyway no matter how nice your mentor was to you. Heck, Kylo killed Han just to kill him and prove to himself he was bad..
Yes, because people learn lessons once and then they perfectly change their behavior forever and never make a single mistake or have emotions again after that one time. That's exactly how people work.
Luke got angry once when Vader threatened his sister and then never once had any emotions for the next 40 years? Never a single moment of doubt, fear, or anger? Never once approached the tempting Dark Side again no matter what stress or danger he was under? That's not a person, that's a robot.
I used to yell at people on this forum, and that wasn't a good thing. I learned a lesson, I matured, I got better about it. I still get angry at folks sometimes. I'm better about it, but I ain't perfect. No one is.
Maybe instead of jumping right to murder he could've I don't know…talked to the kid? And why wasn't Anakin around to talk to Ben as well? He could've shut that shit down faster than Luke. By talking to him.
Are you seriously comparing blowing up a planet destroying genocide machine in order to save the galaxy with blowing up said planets? They are one hundred percent not the same and now I'm sure you're just trolling me. Holy shit, Robby.
The lesson was that negative emotions are a slippery slope. To be mindful of them, and not let them consume you in a moment of weakness. To be on guard against yourself. The fact that I'm having to explain basic jedi philosophy to you shows me that you just didn't grasp the character on a fundamental level. I'm done with this.