I predict in the next issue we will see…
Brook explaining about the anatomy of Thriller Bark with possibly a full page or even two full pages of a map. Then we will possibly see the beginning of Brook's past, ending with Brook eating the devil fruit by stealing it frmo Thriller Bark and then getting impaled or something by a Zombie General like Absalom or perona and then on the last page. Moria (an actual pic) included with him stealing Brook's shadow.
If not that...
Brook telling them possibly one or two pages of Moria and his powers and then more fights between teh Zombie General. Possibly the 900 zombie as ending page.
Chapter 454 "Humming" Discussion
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But Saul got killed by Aokiji, was a naval officer and his name did include a animal name… but it was Jaguar... :getlost: Plus he doesnt look cool, and its obvious that Moria provoked Hogback to resurrect zombies... Not Hogback resureccting Saul...
A person can't go by a Psuedonym? And he was a frickin D, cmon. He lifted a 5000 ton battleship and took cannon and gunfire like it was nothing. Saul was a beast. So what if he "didn't look cool"?
Nothing is obvious at this point. We haven't seen Moria's face for a reason. And Hogback has a huge scar over his forehead, indicating that something is up. The fact that he disappeared several years ago is a good indication he's either dead or not in control of himself.
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Moria, your definition of 'cool' seems to rely heavily upon aesthetic beauty and non-goofy characters.
While there's nothing wrong with that, per say, you're reading a manga where your definition of 'cool' is rarely seen.
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But Saul got killed by Aokiji, was a naval officer and his name did include a animal name…
Hmm.. Precisely, freezed..
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Hmm.. Precisely, freezed..
Exactly. The move was called "Ice TIME CAPSULE", not "ICE TIME JUST DIE YOU ASSHOLE" (Credit to whoever I took that quote from, Polygon maybe?)
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**I do remember that quote, but I don't know if was me who made it.
Anyway, I do think AoKiji had the intention of preserving Saul, but I'm not sure how he would survive the buster Call cannons hitting him while encased in ice.**
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Yeah, at first I thought that Saul would be perserved because of the name of the attack. But a Buster Call would surely kill him. And if it didn't, the marines who discovered the traitor would either kill him or send him to Impel Down, if he was alive, that is.
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This was from Stephen's script about what Aokiji said to Robin.
Aokiji: The giant who fought for Ohara, 20 years ago,
Haguar D. Sauro.
He and I… were friends.
When I let you escape that island, with respect to his wishes...
I created an obligation to watch over the rest of your life...!!!Other than the mispelling of Saul's name, it should be noted that he promised his friend to watch over Robin the rest of his life. He promised his dead friend, and Aokiji would probably know if Saul was dead or not. So he's most likely dead whether he was brought back to life or not again is still "negotiable" but its about as likely as Gol D. ROger's body being there.
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@ultimateclima:
This was from Stephen's script about what Aokiji said to Robin.
Aokiji: The giant who fought for Ohara, 20 years ago,
Haguar D. Sauro.
He and I… were friends.
When I let you escape that island, with respect to his wishes...
I created an obligation to watch over the rest of your life...!!!Other than the mispelling of Saul's name, it should be noted that he promised his friend to watch over Robin the rest of his life. He promised his dead friend, and Aokiji would probably know if Saul was dead or not. So he's most likely dead whether he was brought back to life or not again is still "negotiable" but its about as likely as Gol D. ROger's body being there.
The quote's ambiguous, although the only reason I can't see Saulo is dead is because a D dying so easily is ridiculous. Although the same can be said about Ace's (supposed) death, the point is, the D's are critical to the story. The story started with a D (Roger), it will end with a D (Luffy). Not to mention that every other D had a prominent effect on the storyline. I just can't see Oda throwing away D's.
Although… it is possible that further into this arc, Moria will reveal more about Saul's backstory. Considering that they likely knew each other, and that Saul is quite an old giant, there is more than likely far more than just his military career to show for his life.
If and only if Saul has a fleshed out history, I will be more accepting of his permanent loss.
I don't think Moria is Saul, but I firmly support their connection.
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Well, I think Saul's value to the story is to keep Nico Robin moving on.
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Bounty's has a point. Saul's death was crucial. If it wasn't for that, Aokiji wouldn't have protected Robin for those twenty years and would never have met up with Luffy. Obviously the Poneglyphs have a huge role in the story so if Robin helps Luffy achieve his goal than Saul would have had a purpose in influencing Robin.
Also although the initial D. involves something major with the story, it still just is a family name. Sure the family is apparently a strong one, its just family ties. It's like the Nefertari family, they're just people no more no lessor giants in some of the D's case
In fact Saul is probably just as important as Bellemere or Hiruluk. Influencial people in a Straw Hat's life, but there aren't people wondering more about them. If there is more about Saul in this story, go Oda and his bonds, but if there aren't, that's okay too.
Go Goldenweek
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I remamber Saul says "I wonder if he's alright too". Had he met up with Gecko Moria while trying to reach Ohara?
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Well, I think Saul's value to the story is to keep Nico Robin moving on.
This is true; however, the same can be said about Shanks, and yet Shanks is still a pivotal character to the story in addition to his relationship as Luffy's hero. I would be more than willing to include Saul as a member of the "Mentors/heroes that play no role other than inspiring the Strawhat that they knew/raised", but Saul is a D, something that none of the other Strawhat's mentors are. That alone should differentiate him from the rest of the mentor-figures we've seen.
I think Saul's involvement with Robin is significant, but I think there's more to this giant than meets the eye. I don't think we're through with him just yet.
Edit: Joekiddo, you may be onto something there, but I think the official translation is: "I wonder if the other is okay, too…" meaning he was probably referring to Olivia.
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@ultimateclima:
In fact Saul is probably just as important as Bellemere or Hiruluk. Influencial people in a Straw Hat's life, but there aren't people wondering more about them. If there is more about Saul in this story, go Oda and his bonds, but if there aren't, that's okay too.
I wonder about Hililuk and Bellemere too. Who told them those were GOOD choices of hairstyles? Even by manga styles, they're ridiculous.
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I don't know why I didn't just think of this, but what if Hogback isn't Hogback, but a zombie with Hogback's shadow? As far as I can remember, Chopper didn't know what he looked like, so it's possible the real Hogback is dead or gasp the zombie Luffy pushed into the ground!
I'm getting too ahead of myself, but hey, you can't blame me. It's no worse than "Moria is Saul".
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Saloma: I find it unlikely because Hogback referes to himself as hogback while Jigoroh (who presumably has zoro's shadow) calls himself by the name he had when he was alive. And number 3/dogpen/zomji has no idea who Sanji is.
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wonder what the zombie luffy is XD
anyways is there a 455 this week or no?
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Saloma: I find it unlikely because Hogback referes to himself as hogback while Jigoroh (who presumably has zoro's shadow) calls himself by the name he had when he was alive. And number 3/dogpen/zomji has no idea who Sanji is.
It's possible they're putting on a charade. They put one on with Usopp, Chopper and Nami, so it's not like they're beyond that.
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wonder what the zombie luffy is XD
anyways is there a 455 this week or no?
one thing is for sure: he will be screaming about meat when he arrives… (not really for sure. i just find i very likely =P)
nope no chapter this week due to it beeing "golden week" in japan
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I'd love to see a great action between Moria and Usopp. Moria is a giant, imagine if he talks badly about Erbaf in front of Usopp. Nobody can stop an angry Usopp. Even a shichibukai.
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FFA, yeah, they might be connected. Actually, while I don't really think they know each other too much, but they're surely from the same Giant Clan. Which mean, Moria's no amazing warrior. Yeah, Saul was hella strong, but you can agree with me he was nothing too special, right?
By that, Moria's bound to have a DF. A DF that connects to this whole zombie crap.
So based on the brought up Saul, we can be pretty sure Moria has a DF and might be somehow strong. And that we will get some more info about Giant Clans overall.
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Considering Moria's position, and a giant's age, I think it's pretty certain that Saul knew who he was. Now, I'm not sure when Moria vanished and decided to stay on Thriller Bark, but it couldn't have been more than 8 years ago.
I don't support their connection, but I can understand where people are coming from.
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I agree that there is most definantely (probably) more to Saul than what we have seen. I think FFA is right, Oda didn't add that "D" because he was bored. As for whether or not Saul and Moria are connected, I don't really see any evidence to support this yet. Either way, I'm certain we'll here more about Saul somewhere down the (Grand) line.
Regarding Hogback, my gut tells me that he's not a zombie. I think the only story left to tell with him involves Cindry.
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@Fire Fist:
Exactly. The move was called "Ice TIME CAPSULE", not "ICE TIME JUST DIE YOU ASSHOLE" (Credit to whoever I took that quote from, Polygon maybe?)
Lol. That made me laugh. ICE TIME JUST DIE U ASSHOLE.
On another subject… It would be cool to see Moria insult the Elbaf giants and saying those trashy weaklings, Dorry and broggy. Like he says after beating Brook or something "hes almost as weak as those disgraceful Elbaf giants, Dorry and Broggy" Luffy and Ussop really knew them and it would be nice to see ussop attack him with the Kabuto which would weaken Moria since zombies and such don't like fire... Then maybe the fight between Luffy and Moria starts after Ussop gets smashed around a few times. I would enjoy seeing Gear 4th and 5th and maybe 6th revealed since this is a Shichibukai. Gear 4th being a huge muscle man would be funny. 5th as a super tall guy would be cool and possibly 6th as sucking in all air and making really super strong air bullets frmo his gum gum baloon.
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@Fire Fist:
A person can't go by a Psuedonym? And he was a frickin D, cmon. He lifted a 5000 ton battleship and took cannon and gunfire like it was nothing. Saul was a beast. So what if he "didn't look cool"?
Nothing is obvious at this point. We haven't seen Moria's face for a reason. And Hogback has a huge scar over his forehead, indicating that something is up. The fact that he disappeared several years ago is a good indication he's either dead or not in control of himself.
Yeah, and there was a reason the same thing happened to Crocodile… Oh, wait there wasn't. It was just because he was a Shichibukai. I swear, people probably would have said hes Luffy's dad back then because he has a scar. Also, freezing is killing... Unless you get thawed. But there was no one to thaw him... even luffy "a d." had to be helped by friends but there was no one to help him. However, I am not saying taht Saul is not influential to the Thriller bark story... But I just don't think he is Gecko Moria... Because then the arc would be focused around Robin after we just had a whole arc focused around her in W7. I dont think that would make the story very good. Possibly Moria has Saul's shadow.
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Absalom looked quite surprised or worried when he heard that "the humming swordsman" (AKA Brook) has appeared in Thriller Bark…
Two theories!
Theory 1:
Absalom and Brook were buddies before they parted ways in Thriller Bark 10 years ago. Unbeknownst to Absalom, Moria and Hogback sees potential in Brook's ability, so they arranged the onslaught on Brook and his crewmates and stole his shadow (and probably some of his crew). Moria and the rest of the crew kept this ordeal as a secret cause if Absalom ever knew that his own crew had killed off his friend behind his back, they'll lose a useful ally and get a dangerous enemy.Theory 2:
Absalom himself led the onslaught on Brook and his crewmates. As Absalom have heard about Brook's arrival, even though he knows that Brook had died in the onslaught, he can't help but to start getting worried since Brook is an force not to be underestimated with (as seen what he did to Talaran).Both these theories share one in common, Absalom never knew about Brook possessing the powers of Yomi Yomi no Mi, nor does Moria and his crew.
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is ther no new chapter this week?
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Golden week. holiday in japan. no chapter.
(this was answered in this very thread just one page back =P)
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Yeah, and there was a reason the same thing happened to Crocodile… Oh, wait there wasn't. It was just because he was a Shichibukai. I swear, people probably would have said hes Luffy's dad back then because he has a scar. Also, freezing is killing... Unless you get thawed. But there was no one to thaw him... even luffy "a d." had to be helped by friends but there was no one to help him. However, I am not saying taht Saul is not influential to the Thriller bark story... But I just don't think he is Gecko Moria... Because then the arc would be focused around Robin after we just had a whole arc focused around her in W7. I dont think that would make the story very good. Possibly Moria has Saul's shadow.
I don't believe that Moria is Saul, but I do believe they have a connection because:
A. Saul is a D and D's play or will play (In Dragon's case) a significant part in the story.
B. Saul and Moria are from West Blue, as evidenced by the origins of Thriller Bark and their similar dental structure.
C. They're the only two Non-Elbaf giants we've seen so far.
D. Moria's face is hidden for a reason, and I don't think it's just because it's hideously scarred. I mean, cmon, in an arc where EVERYONE but the Strawhats (Save Zoro and Luffy) and Perona are scarred, I think keeping his scars hidden would be the least of his worries.
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Okay, at this point I don't care about theories or anything. I just want to say, I can't wait to see Brook animated and hear that song of his.
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@Fire Fist:
I don't believe that Moria is Saul, but I do believe they have a connection because:
A. Saul is a D and D's play or will play (In Dragon's case) a significant part in the story.
B. Saul and Moria are from West Blue, as evidenced by the origins of Thriller Bark and their similar dental structure.
C. They're the only two Non-Elbaf giants we've seen so far.
D. Moria's face is hidden for a reason, and I don't think it's just because it's hideously scarred. I mean, cmon, in an arc where EVERYONE but the Strawhats (Save Zoro and Luffy) and Perona are scarred, I think keeping his scars hidden would be the least of his worries.
Okay, may I respond each a little? ^^
A. Right, Saul's a D. The only D that is dead. He WILL have a part to play in, but I doubt it'll be in this arc. Dragon appeared in an arc like Logue Town, and Garp was totally random. Again, I doubt it'll come in this connection to the story.
B. Yep. I believe Oda chose West Blue from all the 6 seas so the fact Moria and Saul are appearantly from the same clan will be easily explained.
C. I know it's not connected to anything, but did anyone really take on the fact those dudes who woke him up are just really tiny? I think someone posted it before, WAY before, but just don't forget this little dirt stuck in the theory possibilities.
D. For one chapter. For one chapter, his face was covered. It could be from many reasons, tons of them. But such a big reason?
Crocodile had his face hidden too for some fair time, and if it counts Enel was involved way back in his arc from the first Mobile Lightning thingy. It's the kind of Oda's speciality. He's a storyteller.I might've got you wrong on them, so tell me and we'll start again =O
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Using the words "dental structure" is incredibly retarded.
Saul is a D and D's play or will play (In Dragon's case) a significant part in the story.
When did sacrificing yourself to save one of the main protagonists lives become insignificant?
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@Mr.:
Talking about manga character's "dental structure" is incredibly retarded, I can't believe anyone would even mention that at all.
why? we know arlong is part sawfish for his nose and we know hes part shark because of… yep you guessed it: his dentals. (not the looks though but the fact that a new row pops up after he removes one set)
(or we know hes a sawshark if that kind of shark exists) -
why? we know arlong is part sawfish for his nose and we know hes part shark because of… yep you guessed it: his dentals. (not the looks though but the fact that a new row pops up after he removes one set)
(or we know hes a sawshark if that kind of shark exists)I was actually commenting on the use of the words "dental structure"; I worded my post badly. However, I see teeth as kind of a dumb reason to accept Sauro and Moria being from the same clan,
Changed my post to make more sense.
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its more of an indicator then a reason to accept it as fact. alone its not enough to make the leap of faith.
but dental structure is valid when assuming if a species is carnivore or herbivore.
sharp teeth = meat eaters (have to cut flesh)
flat teeth = plant eater (have to grind …. hmm i dont know the english word for plant cellurar structure)by this one could assume that elbaf giants eat more meat (and then going further suggesting they are more ferocious)
while westblue giants eat more vegetables (suggesting they are more docile)however if Oda bothered with there beeing a point to the dental structures to make a difference or not is anyones guess.
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@FFA: While I agree that Saul and Moria are likely related in some way, I have to contend with two points.
First, just because Moria's ship recently arrived from West Blue does not mean that he originated in the West Blue. It's certainly possible, but there are many other valid alternatives: he was just visiting, he was ordered there by the WG, Hogback needed ingredients only found there, etc.
Second, are you really sure that we haven't seen Moria's face? Why isn't it possible that Moria's skin really IS pitch black due to some side effect of his devil fruit. All current theories concerning his ability say that he manipulates light or shadow. Either could cause his skin to no longer reflect light, which explain why his face, hands and fingers are pure black while his clothing, teeth and eyes reflect light normally.
So, it is possible we have seen his face, it's just that that face is too dark to show any of his features clearly. The fact that he was asleep and his skin kept that hue also supports the idea that his skin is that black permanently.
@Gorlom: Don't look too deeply into the predictive ability of dental morphology in this series. Flat tipped teeth= incisors which are used predominantly by omnivores. Herbivorous grinding teeth= molars that are large thick rectangular teeth.
Saul and moria don't have molar filled mouths, their teeth are unnaturally rounded. Teeth that are rounded to that extent don't exist in any species on the planet and wouldn't be good at anything except grinding rocks.
So unless they live off rock, we shouldn't expect to be able to predict their preferred choice of food from their teeth.
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however if Oda bothered with there beeing a point to the dental structures to make a difference or not is anyones guess.
i was just pointing things out Bogia =P
think you are over analysing their teeth a bit. if Oda really intended something with their teeth he had to somehow show that they were different right?
so the only possibilities he could show are rectangular, rounded or jagged (triangular?) since he already used the rectangular for dorry and broggy he probably needed even duller teeth for the west blue giants. and thus he shows us the unnatural rounded ones.
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Sorry gorlom, it seems we're in agreement.
I'm too much of a bio-geek to not over analyze dentition.
In any case, I needed a little over analysis to tide me over until next week's revelations. On this forum, speculation tends to boil down to over analysis or "my favorite character could beat up your favorite character" endless futile bickering. Over analysis is more fun.
P.S. (uhm… not that it's a big deal or anything, but it's "boiga" not "bogia." Every time you refer to me like that I can't help thinking of Humphrey Bogart with elemental super powers...)
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Sorry gorlom, it seems we're in agreement.
I'm too much of a bio-geek to not over analyze dentition.
In any case, I needed a little over analysis to tide me over until next week's revelations. On this forum, speculation tends to boil down to over analysis or "my favorite character could beat up your favorite character" endless futile bickering. Over analysis is more fun.
P.S. (uhm… not that it's a big deal or anything, but it's "boiga" not "bogia." Every time you refer to me like that I can't help thinking of Humphrey Bogart with elemental super powers...)
hehe yep we sure do seem to agree on alot of points (over analysis > vs threads)… except for your name =P
I never really read names letter for letter (why i still get all the letters right but the order wrong is stated a bit back in this thread) and i like "Bogia" better for some reason.
i could start calling you Boiga but Bogart with elemental powers = win so if you really dont mind... :ninja: ^^
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Wow people are actually thinking the same way I did with the Saulo being Moria theory. Here is my scenario even though I doubt I'm right.
Saulo, having been unfrozen eventually due to the flames of Ohara has a complete mental breakdown seeing all the death and destruction. He goes on a rampage somehow making it off the island. Eventually now that his mind has snapped he becomes a savage pirate. Somehow he meets up with Hogback and it goes from there.
Shallow I know but i tried.
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In any case, I needed a little over analysis to tide me over until next week's revelations. On this forum, speculation tends to boil down to over analysis or "my favorite character could beat up your favorite character" endless futile bickering. Over analysis is more fun.
Psssh, you're just jealous cause Blackbeard can totally own so and so… XD
Anyways, next chapter is gonna be awesome, Brooke is going to give the 411 on everything, that's good enough.
Also i think last year on Goldenweek the chapter came out super early, think it will happen this year?
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Saulo, having been unfrozen eventually due to the flames of Ohara.
Dont frozen people need to be thawed properly? otherwise they would crack?
Sauls best chance of makeing it would be beeing thrown into the ocean and beeing gentely thawed that way…
unless Giants are so much more resiliant then humans that he can take a rapid increase in heat while so completly frozen.
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@ultimateclima:
Anyways, next chapter is gonna be awesome, Brooke is going to give the 411 on everything, that's good enough.
Also i think last year on Goldenweek the chapter came out super early, think it will happen this year?
Although I was only a lurker at that point, I think that I remember last years post golden week spoiler coming early as well.
Maybe we'll be lucky and get a spoiler fix this weekend.
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@Rai:
Okay, may I respond each a little? ^^
A. Right, Saul's a D. The only D that is dead.
Not exactly, as far as we know, Gol'D Roger is also dead.
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Not exactly, as far as we know, Gol'D Roger is also dead.
Emphasis on "As far as we know". Come to thing of it, it would be insanely ironic if One Piece ended with "Oh, hi Luffy. You did good, but I'm still kicking. Sorry."
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Usopp ketchup star technique > any Roger logia death technique.
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! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/taleran/45416.jpg Looking at it more clearly now and reading this part of the translation,
Tallaran: Are you another comrade of the pirates!?
Franky: Hey!! Skeleton!!
Brook: … don't mind, don't mind... it is alright... since I am finishing this.
Franky: !?.....Brook: ... "Humming ten feet" ... (hanauta sanchô) [<- three chô are roughly ten feet / 3 meters]
Brook: "Arrow-notch Strike"!!! (yahazu giri)
sword's sfx: *CHINGMakes me more certain that Brookes fighting style involves resheathing his sword to make it hum an attack. Oda has Franky wondering why Brook is putting his sword back in it's sheath again. So that time Ryuma got those three might have been the same thing. The actual attack happens at the sheathing.
(Hi, new to the forums, btw. Also don't know whether this has been answered, either :\ )
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I'm not so sure that resheathing has much to do with how Brooke deals damage to his enemies… If you remember Ryuma, he DID actually deal blows to Nami, Chopper, and Usopp (although he used the dull side). The attack Brooke and Ryuma used has the exact same name, so I'm pretty sure Brooke actually cut the monster spider. Resheathing is probably more of a victory pose type of thing.
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I don't know why you would think Franky is wondering why Brooke is putting his sword back. The intention for the dialogue seems more like Franky's wanting to say "Where the hell did YOU come from?" and Brooke 's simply telling Franky to chill out for a second. I'm reading straight from the RAW scans, and I don't see anything that suggests that Franky's particularly worried about Brooke seemingly about to get pwned.
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Recalling from Ch. 450, the Hanauta Sanchou Yahazugiri (as explained by Hogback) is a sword technique (or more like the mastery level from the way things read) that is so advanced that the victim does not realize that he has been owned until he has taken 3 steps since the strike. I don't know what the translations may say, but that's exactly what it says in Japanese.
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hey welcome to the boards ^^
we have been trying to answer it but dont think we have done it as good as you did… (even though you didnt mention Ryuuma sheated his sword after his attack hit)
I dont know what Franky is surprised about but he must have heard the conversation Robin had with Brook that explained how he got there, must he not?
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The monkey spider got his ass kicked in record time
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Well, we will just have to wait to see the theory of Brook's fighting technique for next week. He said he will reveal some things… so maybe his fighting technique will be among them. Dang, this 2 week break has been too long. I'm gonna be happy when we get the raw scans and spoilers. Spoilers because we get to see if theres any new characters who talk, or maybe Moria talking. And raws... well just because I get to see some awesome manga!