However strong it was, it was enough to destroy Crocodiles desired area. Pell just has a strong body, or maybe at the last second he just used super speed to get out of the blast radius. Not really, but that was unbelievable. Pell should be dead. Who knows why he's still alive.
Will OP become like DBZ
-
-
I think I remember Zazen posting something like this…
-
My point was that while Pell did survive an explosion that a normal person couldn't,…
I would not say he survived the explosion, rather the author decided that he wasn´t dead. In any case, it was one of the poorer moments of storytelling:sad:.
… it wasn't a nuclear level energy release so the exaggeration isn't as great as it appears ....
It´s futile to reason about the level of exaggeration while you are sitting on a big ass conventional bomb. And for the level of the explosion (and Pells position relative to the bomb) - there is little left to imagination in the respective panels:getlost:.
-
Oh, but it has:
1. Hero introduced ( Son Goku, Luffy)
2. Hero #2 introduced (Son Gohan, Zoro)
3. Son of former opponent/acquaintance turns good (Piccolo, Usopp)
4. Random generic characters join (Tienshinhan/Yamcha/Chaiozu, Nami/Sanji/Chopper)
5. Villian owns everyone but main hero (Nappa, Arlong)
6. Hero #1 owns said bad guy.
5. 3rd main character introduced as bad guy (Vegeta, Robin)
6. Main character's boss has a whole crapload of badguys, including an elite squad (Ginyu Squad, Officer Agents).
7. Hero, Hero #2, Hero #3 (still bad guy) and Hero #3's boss proceed to own everyone; Boss owns his men who failed him.
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray/defeat his boss, gets owned. (Vegeta/Frieza, Robin/Crocodile)
9. Main Hero owns Hero #3's boss with some new power move (Super Saiyan, Gomu Gomu no Storm)
10. Hero #3 joins by default. (Vegeta, Robin)
And you know the rest.
Oh fuck no.
We have fucking square giraffe men and afro skeletons.
Your attempts at blanding One Piece into a DBZ clone fail.
-
I would not say he survived the explosion, rather the author decided that he wasn´t dead. In any case, it was one of the poorer moments of storytelling:sad:.
It´s futile to reason about the level of exaggeration while you are sitting on a big ass conventional bomb. And for the level of the explosion (and Pells position relative to the bomb) - there is little left to imagination in the respective panels:getlost:.
It didn't look like a 2km (or whatever it was) radius blast to me.
-
Take this as genuine criticism towards your arguments rather than yourself, but I think, "Fire Fist" Ace, that your arguments are becoming less tangible. While at first you tried to apply some sort of generic formula to prove OP's similarities to DBZ are significant, your true intentions once again became obvious thereafter. Indeed, this is just another one of those threads where you attempt to prove, as a resilient fan of Nico Robin, how the time exerted on developing an arc that revolves around her shows her hero-like status over the other "random character"s relative insignificance, such as Nami, Chopper or Usopp.
@Fire Fist:
Nami has shown her navigation and meteorology, okay. How does that relate to drawing the world's greatest map?
Not that this has any relevance to the topic, but I think jinjue best sums it up:
Every day they sail … and every new island they visit is being mapped by her for her world map ... We're not idiots; Oda really shouldn't have to spell this out for us.
And to that note, I don't think you, as a frequenter of these forums, are an idiot, "Fire Fist" Ace. Or at least I hope you aren't.
@Fire Fist:
Sanji has gained intelligence and helped the Strawhats get through certain situations, how does that relate to his dream to find All Blue and gain access to every type of seafood in the world?
Oh dimples, maybe you're right, looks like Robin is more important once again. But WAIT, Mr. fanboy, I thought All Blue exists in the Grand Line. Firstly, through his adventures with the Strawhats, is Sanji not traversing the Grand Line and automatically journeying towards his goal of discovery? Or does Oda again have to explicitly craft a panel of conversation just to satisfy you and make this the perfect manga with everything handed to you on a plate?
Secondly, what does this have to do with anything? Why is it that you must repeatedly, through various threads, show us that since Oda has poured more effort into a story revolving around the seventh crewmember, that majority of the rest of the crew are no longer "heroes" or "protagonists"? Must Oda have spent the equal share of 2000 frames per crewmember to emphasise the significance of each character, or do you just not realise how his methods drove the story's progression?
You should seriously reflect upon the effect of over-fanaticism with Robin, as it has simply clouded your judgment and invalidated many of your comments throughout the forums.
-
Would be nice if I could read most of that without highlighting it. o.o
-
No.
nuff said.OP will never become like DBZ.
If this was the case, what would be the point of watching something thats the same?Altho it will always have some DBZ influence added to the story line, but even Oda himself admits things like that. Hes to smart to ever folow the same story line.
edit**
everyone seems to forget, or at least from what i noticed that Oda, is the master of surprises, and he can make a good story to go along with that surprise. This is why Oda wont folow the same foot steps as DBZ cus hes diffrent, and he can make the best damn storys ever. -
Seconded.
OP- as long as every other Shounen manga may vaguely follow the same structure, but it will never, ever become like DBZ.
It's not the same thing over and over again. There are goals to be met- after all.
And god, "Fire Fist" Ace is going to have to read a lot from JcFic when he gets back on. -_-
This is going to be interesting. -
Take this as genuine criticism towards your arguments rather than yourself, but I think, "Fire Fist" Ace, that your arguments are becoming less tangible. While at first you tried to apply some sort of generic formula to prove OP's similarities to DBZ are significant, your true intentions once again became obvious thereafter. Indeed, this is just another one of those threads where you attempt to prove, as a resilient fan of Nico Robin, how the time exerted on developing an arc that revolves around her shows her hero-like status over the other "random character"s relative insignificance, such as Nami, Chopper or Usopp.
Not that this has any relevance to the topic, but I think jinjue best sums it up:
And to that note, I don't think you, as a frequenter of these forums, are an idiot, "Fire Fist" Ace. Or at least I hope you aren't.
Oh dimples, maybe you're right, looks like Robin is more important once again. But WAIT, Mr. fanboy, I thought All Blue exists in the Grand Line. Firstly, through his adventures with the Strawhats, is Sanji not traversing the Grand Line and automatically journeying towards his goal of discovery? Or does Oda again have to explicitly craft a panel of conversation just to satisfy you and make this the perfect manga with everything handed to you on a plate?
Secondly, what does this have to do with anything? Why is it that you must repeatedly, through various threads, show us that since Oda has poured more effort into a story revolving around the seventh crewmember, that majority of the rest of the crew are no longer "heroes" or "protagonists"? Must Oda have spent the equal share of 2000 frames per crewmember to emphasise the significance of each character, or do you just not realise how his methods drove the story's progression?
You should seriously reflect upon the effect of over-fanaticism with Robin, as it has simply clouded your judgment and invalidated many of your comments throughout the forums.
Guy deleted his account. What can I do?
Anyway, just because Robin's my favorite character, he had to try and go flame me. I wonder if it makes people feel big to do stuff like that? Does it make them feel secure to insult people they don't even know over the internet?
What, did you expect me to blow up and start flaming back? I've grown up a little. I'm not going to get offended by some random guy who feels empowered by insulting me.
I'm not trying to undermine the ability of the other strawhats. They're all important in a broader sense. Nami's navigation is important to them making it through the Grand Line. Sanji's assistance is vital in their journey (Finding the Eternal Pose, shutting the GoJ, etc.). Usopp has stood up for the Strawhats (especially Luffy) on many an occassion. Doctor's medical knowledge has been key to keeping the Strawhats healthy and happy.
But Robin's role has taken a very key component to them reaching the end. Not to mention they spent over a quarter of the story on her behalf, defying not just a rival crew (as is the case with the other Strawhats), but the ENTIRE WORLD GOVERNMENT. Because of Robin, two entire islands were destroyed, two D's have risked their life (one losing theirs), and the strawhats even required the assistance of both Galley-la AND the Franky Family, the largest group ever to assist the Strawhats directly with their situation.
No other Strawhat can rival that, frankly. The only person who comes close is Vivi, and even in that case, they did not attack and defeat over five-thousand marines on her behalf.
I'm not saying DBZ is a clone. I've never said that. One Piece is much more in depth and a much better story. But Shonen Manga follow a basic format that has been shown in One Piece. That's all. To keep insulting me and trying to flame me because I've pointed this out… is just childish.
For the record, Dragonball had a story. It had people, things going on, a world, and people who couldn't destroy the world with their pinky. It had activities and events. Pants-Eater, you probably never even read or watched Dragon Ball, only DBZ. I suggest you go read the prequel. Contrary to popular belief, it DID have a story.
-
@Fire Fist:
But Robin's role has taken a very key component to them reaching the end. Not to mention they spent over a quarter of the story on her behalf, defying not just a rival crew (as is the case with the other Strawhats), but the ENTIRE WORLD GOVERNMENT. Because of Robin, two entire islands were destroyed, two D's have risked their life (one losing theirs), and the strawhats even required the assistance of both Galley-la AND the Franky Family, the largest group ever to assist the Strawhats directly with their situation.
Okay, a part of this that bothers me though is although Robin did play the main role in this strike, that the Franky Family and maybe some of Galley-la came to help them to get Franky back as well. That's another reason why it was so long. It wasn't just working on Robin, it was working on the other plot stories too like Usopp/Sogeking
No other Strawhat can rival that, frankly. The only person who comes close is Vivi, and even in that case, they did not attack and defeat over five-thousand marines on her behalf.
Okay can you explain this a little more? I sort of get what you're trying to say but how does it matter that there's more people? She was important but that's because she links to the World Government. Franky could have been in her case just as easily because he knows the secret of Pluton.
For the record, Dragonball had a story. It had people, things going on, a world, and people who couldn't destroy the world with their pinky. It had activities and events. Pants-Eater, you probably never even read or watched Dragon Ball, only DBZ. I suggest you go read the prequel. Contrary to popular belief, it DID have a story.
QFT. Dragon Ball was awesome and the most creative work ever, and I really enjoyed Dragon Ball up to the Cell arc where they created SS2 and everything just went downhill from there on out. That's where it became lets destroy everything with some giant superpower and revive it with dragonballs later
edit:also did anybody else feel like Luffy vs Lucci was similar to a DBZ fight with cell?
Luffy:We'll equal in power, Gear2.(supersayian)
ownage but Lucci pulls out his new form(Cell new form)
Gear 3 super owned but didn't die(super sayian w)
LUccii'll fight seriously using my strongest attack(perfect form)
worked effectively
LuffyGear 2 again to defeat them(supersayian again with Cell's new form that's super ugly) -
No. I feel asleep during the Frieza Vs Gokou fight… But not while reading the Luffy Vs Lucchi one. It is not the same. Something is there in the OP that is missing in the DBZ. Someone generally is there in OP that is missing from DBZ... Why I got bored with DB and not with OP.
-
Meh, this topics going no where.
I will say this though, if you think arguing that one piece is the mirror image of dragonball and will end up like it, you dont get one piece at all.
-
Meh, this topics going no where.
I will say this though, if you think arguing that one piece is the mirror image of dragonball and will end up like it, you dont get one piece at all.
Sigh No one understands what I'm trying to say.
Just forget it.
-
lol. This topic ****ing Phailed!
-
Would be nice if I could read most of that without highlighting it. o.o
Ahh, I'm assuming this is to me. But I didn't think that my font colour was hard to read…if it's too much of a problem though, I'll go ahead and stick with the default white.
Anyway, just because Robin's my favorite character, he had to try and go flame me. I wonder if it makes people feel big to do stuff like that? Does it make them feel secure to insult people they don't even know over the internet?
…
Were we reading the same post? Where in JcFiction's post did he ever flame you? Everything that he put forth was done so in a very civil and non-aggressive manner and I fail to see how it's anything close to being a flame. Remember, just because a post disagrees with you doesn't mean that it's flaming you…even if it is calling you out.
The only thing that came across as being snippy to me was when he referred to you as "Mr. fanboy", but to be brutally honest that's the general impression that I get from you as well. I also feel that if anyone's reaction over this in this thread was childish, it was the wounded martyr act that you presented in response to JcFiction.
No one understands what I'm trying to say.
With all due respect, "Fire Fist" Ace, all I really get from you is how much more important than everyone else Robin is just because these last few arcs focused a lot on her backstory. Put bluntly, I personally think that's a steaming pile of concentrated bullshit. Whatever point you were trying to make prior to that, presumably something about how – wonder of wonders! – both OP and DB share typical shonen story clichés, pretty much fell by the wayside just so that you could go on about how important Robin is and how she's way more important than all of those other 'random background characters', like Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper.
But JcFiction already called you out on that – without flaming you, I feel the need to reiterate – so I'll leave it at that.
~ jj ~
-
Ahh, I'm assuming this is to me. But I didn't think that my font colour was hard to read…if it's too much of a problem though, I'll go ahead and stick with the default white.
…
Were we reading the same post? Where in JcFiction's post did he ever flame you? Everything that he put forth was done so in a very civil and non-aggressive manner and I fail to see how it's anything close to being a flame. Remember, just because a post disagrees with you doesn't mean that it's flaming you…even if it is calling you out.
The only thing that came across as being snippy to me was when he referred to you as "Mr. fanboy", but to be brutally honest that's the general impression that I get from you as well. I also feel that if anyone's reaction over this in this thread was childish, it was the wounded martyr act that you presented in response to JcFiction.
With all due respect, "Fire Fist" Ace, all I really get from you is how much more important than everyone else Robin is just because these last few arcs focused a lot on her backstory. Put bluntly, I personally think that's a steaming pile of concentrated bullshit. Whatever point you were trying to make prior to that, presumably something about how – wonder of wonders! – both OP and DB share typical shonen story clichés, pretty much fell by the wayside just so that you could go on about how important Robin is and how she's way more important than all of those other 'random background characters', like Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper.
But JcFiction already called you out on that – without flaming you, I feel the need to reiterate – so I'll leave it at that.
~ jj ~
Fine, they're all main characters. Yes, every Strawhat carries some importance in the story. I was wrong, okay?
Whatever, stop harassing me. It gets old having to check a thread constantly and see someone try and "call me out" (Which is just another word for flame) for every time I post. Don't expect me to condescend to your level, because I actually respect you and your opinons, even if you blatantly flame mine.
OP is like Dragonball: A Shonen Fighting Manga with a decent story. Most people can agree that Toriyama got tired of writing Dragonball sometime during Z, when there became less and less story elements and more and more just non-stop fighting. Oda enjoys One Piece, and if the newest chapters are any indication, One Piece will never end up like DBZ did by the end of the series.
-
It gets old having to check a thread constantly and see someone try and "call me out" (Which is just another word for flame)
Actually, it's not. Telling you that we disagree with your opinion that only Luffy, Zoro and Robin are main characters and/or that Robin is the most important character of them all and then detailing exactly why we disagree with you is not a flame. A flame is what went down a few pages back, when someone decided to spend a paragraph ranting about you instead of actually addressing any of your points. There is a noted and distinct difference there, and it saddens me that you completely fail to understand that.
Don't expect me to condescend to your level, because I actually respect you and your opinons, even if you blatantly flame mine.
Yeah, because that's totally what I've been doing. Only, you know, not. Refer above for details.
Fine, they're all main characters. Yes, every Strawhat carries some importance in the story. I was wrong, okay?
The fact that this simple reality had to be dragged out of you, and with such vehement obstinance towards it on top of that, makes me very sad.
~ jj ~
-
Actually, it's not. Telling you that we disagree with your opinion that only Luffy, Zoro and Robin are main characters and/or that Robin is the most important character of them all and then detailing exactly why we disagree with you is not a flame. A flame is what went down a few pages back, when someone decided to spend a paragraph ranting about you instead of actually addressing any of your points. There is a noted and distinct difference there, and it saddens me that you completely fail to understand that.
I know, and I handled the situation appropriately. Fine, you're not flaming me.
The fact that this simple reality had to be dragged out of you, and with such vehement obstinance towards it on top of that, makes me very sad.
~ jj ~
I wasn't trying to drag it out. I apologize if it came out that way. Maybe I'm just looking at this a different way than you are. Oda's storytelling has changed over the years and the way in which he gives importance to the characters has also changed.
So yes, I'm genuinely sorry.
-
Those facts are overexagerrating. They don't show the obviousness of Dragonball material, more like show the searching through One Piece and trying to find out what they have in common. None of those prove that One Piece is insanely just like Dragonball.
-
Those facts are crap. They don't show the obviousness of Dragonball material, that was more like searching through One Piece and trying to find out what they have in common. None of those prove that One Piece is insanely just like Dragonball.
Again, another person who completely misses the point of my post…
All I'm saying is there are certain elements that are part of a basic Shonen Fighting Manga. THAT'S ALL. Okay?
Edit: I see you edited your post. I'll agree that they are overexaggerated, but NOT that they're crap. They are basic Shonen elements in a fighting manga, and they happened to occur in a similar order in both series. That's it. Nothing more. Don't look too much into this. Everyone is and is flaming me and everything else.
-
Yeah I did that, I just thought you were being an ass, my fault. I just think those are simple though. What manga doesn't have a villain turned good or a uber powerful bad guy?
-
Yeah I did that, I just thought you were being an ass, my fault. I just think those are simple though. What manga doesn't have a villain turned good or a uber powerful bad guy?
Hokuto no Ken, that I can recall. It had the Uber-powerful villian, but after the initial "Getting the crud kicked out of him", Kenshiro subsequently went on to own just about everyone in the series, Shin included. No bad guy redeemed himself that I can recall.
-
@Fire Fist:
Hokuto no Ken, that I can recall. It had the Uber-powerful villian, but after the initial "Getting the crud kicked out of him", Kenshiro subsequently went on to own just about everyone in the series, Shin included. No bad guy redeemed himself that I can recall.
Name twenty five :ninja:
-
@Fire Fist:
All I'm saying is there are certain elements that are part of a basic Shonen Fighting Manga. THAT'S ALL. Okay?
….So, basically, FFA, you're saying your point is ACTUALLY "One Piece is a shounen" instead of "One Piece is like DBZ."
Pray tell, why is this thread titled so?
-
Not to be a downer here, but it seems to me that the defining negative aspect of DBZ was the fact that the manga itself became a replacement for filler, with horribly overstretched story arcs and repetition of fight scenes. The One Piece anime has pretty much reached that point with Enies Lobby, IMO. :/
-
I disagree; so far each enemy set in One Piece has had its own unique style and I don't forsee that changing. In DBZ it was basically who has the biggest number of Ki (or whatever it was) wins (with the obligatory, Oh Noes, We need more Ki, lets go train, lol)
Does anyone think that Nami had more duroki(???) than Califa? One Piece is much richer in terms of combat depth than DBZ. DBZ was great in its day, but now we've got something much better so just enjoy.
-
Not to be a downer here, but it seems to me that the defining negative aspect of DBZ was the fact that the manga itself became a replacement for filler, with horribly overstretched story arcs and repetition of fight scenes. The One Piece anime has pretty much reached that point with Enies Lobby, IMO. :/
I'm amaze how One manga-based anime olny have one filler arc even when that manga is long. One Piece anime stuffered fillers due to Toei's stupid decision to start the anime 2 years after the manga. If Toei had waited 5 years while the manga is late into Jaya, the anime would have less to non-filler and filler arcs would be 2 arcs and not 5 of them.
The Enies Lobby anime screamed DBZ, due to strech out scenes, long fighting episodes just to slow down, then it slowed down to adding horrible fillers. Luffy getting cornered at the cliff? 2 episode of Sanji fighting? An whole episode with Kaku and Jabura transforming? A streach out Zoro/Usopp swordfighting? Luffy using extra jet moves?
In Enies Lobby manga, everything was smooth and no streaching. Toei, why did you not wait until 2002 to start the anime? Why must your brains be full of money?
Well, One Piece is not a DBZ clone, plus the so-called "power-ups" in Enies Lobby was nothing more then trying out new moves. Luffy's jet is just him making his moves go faster, Sanji's leg just gets hot as iron, Zoro uses illiusion but that does not justify as a power-ups, Chopper just turns into a gaint monster, Nami just uses an upgrade Clima-Tect, Usopp olny uses an upgrade slingshots. I don't see those thing in DBZ. In DBZ they just scream, pumps up their muscles, glow with power and shoot beams all the time. I don't see that in One Piece is why I like this series better.
-
Name twenty five :ninja:
If you don't count Ryu, Shaman King. Most of the villians got splattered before they could redeem themselves, anyway, and the series ended right before the Hao fight.
Also, In Captain Harlock, I can't recall anyone either being uber powerful or redeeming themselves; hell, Harlock and Esmereldas both have one of their eyes shot out at some point.
In Gensomaden Saiyuki and GM: Reload, the GOOD guys are the uber powerful ones. Well, except for Ukoku Sanzo / Ni Jianyi, but he's one of the characters in manga that just shits awesome, so…
Galaxy 999 Doesn't have anyone insanely powerful. It's just Tetsuro and Maetel travelling through space.
Well, anyway, there are more manga than you think where the opponents aren't always uber in the beginning, or the bad guys become good at any point.
-
Honestly, it's the styles that make the fighting in One Piece work.
Remember, a lot of people spent the entire arc waiting for what Usopp would do because we could feel fairly assured it wasn't just "What Sanji would do with a longer nose"
I only found moderate letdowns in the Enies Lobby fights:
-Califa was too much like Alvida power-wise, but she differentated surprisingly well.
-Jyabura just never did anything for me.
-Lucci still felt underdeveloped.
-Spandam didn't go out in the blaze of incompetence I hoped for (ideally, being dragged off by an activated Funkfreed on his belt)
-Choppzilla is THAT JUTSU in its most basic form.
None of these really were "drag" issues. Oda did a pretty good job of switching scenes often enough to keep everything moving.
-
….So, basically, FFA, you're saying your point is ACTUALLY "One Piece is a shounen" instead of "One Piece is like DBZ."
Pray tell, why is this thread titled so?
This needs to get said twice, so I quoted it.
-
….So, basically, FFA, you're saying your point is ACTUALLY "One Piece is a shounen" instead of "One Piece is like DBZ."
Pray tell, why is this thread titled so?
After that, this thread should be pretty much done. I mean One Piece is the definition of shounen. We all knew that. No ones claiming one piece is some kinda super deep anime, because its not. It mixes stuff around and its twists keep the story interesting beyond fights. not to mention the characters, which are some of the best characterized ones in any shounen series. Its a pretty basic anime, but its enjoyable and my favorite series.
So discussion over, anything else is pointless.
-
I think the reason so many people compare other shonen with DBZ is because, really, DBZ is shonen at it's most basic. The stronger guy wins, the weaker guy "gets stronger" to beat the stronger guy and become the stronger guy himself, and people do ridiculous feats of strength. In fact, with no studying whatsoever I'll assume that DBZ defined the genre. That and training arcs, which I think were actually quite fun with DBZ.
However, I think that OP will become more like DBz only in the sense that the characters and battles will get more intense as time goes on–and even that isn't certain considering the nature of some fights.
-
No no no, onemoment. All you need to do is quote this:
….So, basically, FFA, you're saying your point is ACTUALLY "One Piece is a shounen" instead of "One Piece is like DBZ."
Pray tell, why is this thread titled so?
And since I replied in this thread, and I paid the tithe for you. I'll quote it once more.
….So, basically, FFA, you're saying your point is ACTUALLY "One Piece is a shounen" instead of "One Piece is like DBZ."
Pray tell, why is this thread titled so?
-
All the crazyness in this thread is an exemple of why I usually never get involved in major discussions like this. Ugh! :getlost:
Look here, people!
To be honest no one and I mean NO ONE can truly predict how OP will end up, not even Oda. Technicaly it all depends on what he is doing with it now and him doing the best he can really. I mean seriously Oda is a fantastic artist and all, just like many others out there, especially those in their time(Akira comes to mind). But don't forget that also like many other artists, even Oda has his limits cause to tell you the truth, there is only so much a person can do with their skills and talents, and Oda is no exception. So all we can do is just watch and see where it goes and what ever happens, happens. -
@Fire Fist:
If you don't count Ryu, Shaman King. Most of the villians got splattered before they could redeem themselves, anyway, and the series ended right before the Hao fight.
Also, In Captain Harlock, I can't recall anyone either being uber powerful or redeeming themselves; hell, Harlock and Esmereldas both have one of their eyes shot out at some point.
In Gensomaden Saiyuki and GM: Reload, the GOOD guys are the uber powerful ones. Well, except for Ukoku Sanzo / Ni Jianyi, but he's one of the characters in manga that just shits awesome, so…
Galaxy 999 Doesn't have anyone insanely powerful. It's just Tetsuro and Maetel travelling through space.
Well, anyway, there are more manga than you think where the opponents aren't always uber in the beginning, or the bad guys become good at any point.
I was sarcastic before, but now you should consider how many mangas actually have those elements, and compare that to the mangas that don't.
And how could you forget Ren from Shaman King?
-
I was sarcastic before, but now you should consider how many mangas actually have those elements, and compare that to the mangas that don't.
And how could you forget Ren from Shaman King?
Good call, I dunno how my brain skipped that one.
Okay, Shaman King follows the formula.
As Lpzie pointed out (Albeit in an assholish and immature way), One Piece follows a Shonen Formula, but it is much more in depth than DBZ was. Dragonball had diversity, a world created, a plot. After the Cell Saga in DBZ, I think Toriyama just got tired of it and let the plot fall apart.
Most of you are too young, but One Piece follows in the footsteps of some of Leiji Matsumoto's romance works, such as Galaxy 999 and Captain Harlock, not to mention Space Battleship Yamato. Just like those were romantic adventures, so is One Piece.
-
True that One Piece and Dragon Ball show some similarities, but so does every other shounen manga as well like it's been already said. You can't create a shounen manga without following the points "Fire Fist" Ace already pointed out a few pages back. At least that's what I think. So there will always be that specific formula every shounen manga will follow. And it's clearly obvious that Toriyama's drawing-style, as well as his manga itself, influenced a LOT of mangaka, not only Oda.
But still, in my oppinion it's impossible to really compare Oda's work with Toriyama's. OP is so much deeper to me. Oda's manga has a soul, unlike DB which lacks that point in my oppinion. I even go as far to dare to say that DB was kinda… pointless in the end. It was all about fighting, training, defeating super strong monster-guys, thus saving the world in every single arc and getting stronger to unreachable off-limits. Not only did it bore me to death, I really missed some deep plots as well, which I found in One Piece.
Oda's really a genius, he created an unique universe with incredible characters, great developements and good fights. Furthermore he always manages to surprise me and make me go "WTF?". Toriyama didn't. His manga was just way too predictable, everyone knew from the beginning what was going to happen in which arc. But you'll never know with Oda. When you think you can predict what will happen in One Piece, Oda throws another developement out and your whole theories are crushed.
I hope I made my point clear and didn't go too off-topic... Which I like to do a lot...
(It's my first post in a discussion on this forum, so please be gracious ^^) -
I hatehateHATE when people put down dragonball.
It sucks horribly. Dragonball is probably the no. 1 manga I've ever read (with one piece somewhere up there).
I can't believe people are saying things like, "Dragonball is way too predictable". Are you serious? The only reason you say that is because dragonball has been around for so long that everyone knows how it turns out. Nobody would've known that Goku was an alien, or that Piccolo would turn good and give his life to save Gohan. Or that the Red Ribbon Army would return in the Cell Saga to extract revenge on Goku. Hell, there is a lot of stuff. You also couldn't predict that Goten/Trunks would ever physically fuse in the Buu Saga, something that I can't think of happening in any shonen manga previously.
And I also can't believe people are saying "The characters in Dragonball never grow!"
Jeesh. They do just as much as the characters in One Piece. Piccolo turns from Homicidal maniac to a lovable monster who gives his life for a child. Gohan turns from a wimpy-child to a great warrior. Vegeta finally realizes that he isn't the best in the universe. Of course not EVERYONE grows, but there are a lot more characters in DBZ compared to One Piece.
Dragonball isn't bad. Not even a little bit. It's just as good as one piece.
-
Well I cant speak for anybody else, but Dragonball really started going downhill when they started focusing on combat and fights, instead of the more comedic side of it. More specifically when the saiyans first appeared.
As for being predictable, Dragonball IS predictable but I cant fault it for that because every shounen manga out there, including OP, is predictable. I know there are elements in the story such as garp, robin, etc we cant predict but lets face it here, we all know Luffy is going to become the pirate king, and we all know the basic formula of an arc: Luffy and each of his crewmembers fights a counterpart and they each win with Luffy having a showdown with the main enemy.
Im not saying this is bad, with so many manga and animes out there OP really cant throw anything at us that we havent seen already. Its HOW it shows its story that makes it so good.
OP is not like dragonball because it retains what drew us there in the first place, imaginative characters, and comedy that keeps on coming. As long as those are still in place, I dont care how many power ups or rubber super saiyans there are in OP, OP will still remain a good manga and not go down the same path as DB.
-
Dragnoball ended up the way it did(the travesty known as the buu saga) because toriyama was sick of it, so he basically let the fans write it.(It was like a fanfic imo)
One piece will be different simply because Oda wants to keep writing. SO it wont suck.
Unless you want to continue arguing the fact that one piece is a shounen manga(which it is) I dont see why we are still posting here.
-
Were still posting here cuz were bored and have nothing else to do. XD
-
The thing I most fear for One Piece is that people like Sanji, Chopper, etc will be left out in fights.
In DBZ that happened to alot of characters, even some characters you wouldnt expect too. I didnt think Piccolo would become so worthless.
Thats why I hope Chopper will develop more control for Monster point, and Sanji being able to do flame kicks left and right. Not to the point where it is absurd though. The characters in One Piece have so much depth and character and it would be really dissapointing if they became mere cheerleaders.
-
Nah, Oda has been pretty good keeping EVERYONE involved. Its also not like dragonball where characters have power levels(well, until CP9, but I doubt that trend will continue) So some peple are just untouchable for the rest of the crew.
Besides, unlike Dragonball, Fighting in One piece is secondary. So even if some of them do stop fighitng big enemies, they will still have a purpose in other aspects of the manga(like ussop, he no longer can keep up in one on one super human fights, but has evolved his style to sniping.)
So I dont think characters losing their purpose is something we have ot worry about in one piece.
-
Tony, I agree, fighting in OP is secondary and it really REALLY needs to stay that way. The reason DB went downhil was because it basically abandoned everything (character development, plot, humor) to basically see how big of an explosion the characters can make.
OP has always been about adventure. Sure fighting is in it but its fights that complement the story, not the story complementing the fights.
Think about the great moments in OP. Luffy punching arlong for the first time, many of the flashbacks, Luffy owning binami in one punch, the farewell to merry, sogekings introduction, ringing the bell in Skypeia, etc.
None of them are the-whole-universe-is-blowing-up-because-of-this-attack flashy. Most are simple punches if any violence exists. Thats because we actually see these characters develop and see their experience exploring the new islands, whereas in DB its just a constant stream of random bad guys each with no background, just I-want-power-and-the-universe type of guys.
As long as OP remains true to character development and adventure itll remain an excellent manga. And seeing as how I felt very excited to learn about Thriller park and the setting in which the SHs will next go through, Id say Oda is still doing a good job.
-
OP isn't like DBZ….Its Better.
-
@Fire Fist:
Sigh No one understands what I'm trying to say.
Just forget it.
lol?
hem (irony). This is only my second post here, but this guy's pretty funny.Interesting thread. Though I'd like to remind everyone that DB =/= DBZ.
-
Well Im sure wed like to pretend everything from DBZ onwards never happened but the fact of the matter is, DBZ is still considered DB in the manga. Everything to the end of the Majin buu saga is still technically DB.
-
People have a lot of really stupid preconceptions about Dragonball. Everyone should do themselves a favor and just read the manga without any pre-conceived notions about how much it sucks or how stupid it is or how it's just "fight fight fight" and it's the exact same fight every time.
I mean, Oda, Kishimoto, Kubo, they all cite Dragonball as inspiration. I mean, it must be good if nearly ALL of the new-gen mangaka are completely madly in love with it.
Also, Toriyama didn't let the fans write the Buu saga. Not at all. Fans don't really have THAT much say in the matter, it really comes down to Toriyama's editor and the people at shueisha. They're the ones who probably thought it was better that Goku came back, and thought it was better that Buu transform, etc. etc.
It happens to every mangaka. Hell, it's probably happened to Oda a few times as well. "Well, Oda-san, I don't think it would be in the best interests of this light-hearted manga to let someone such as pell die for good". You know, things like that, they happen to every manga author. That's why they have editors.
-
I know there's been a lot of bashing of the Buu saga in this thread, but personally I think that the arc had some great concepts stuck in a tired Shonen formula. (such as the child-like killing machine slowly learning to renounce his ways, the hero forced to use his amazing powers in a mundane, peaceful world, and even Gotenks and Gohan…once again ascending beyond his father to be the hero) The problems I think started rearing their head with the Cell saga, considering that Toriyama's master plan was to culminate with the fall of Frieza. While he was able to keep everything together for a decent story in Cell's arc (the Terminator inspirations, Gohan surpassing his father), he was more concerned with the fighting by this point than the hybrid of adventure and action he held even up through Namek and turned the Dragon Balls from the center of concern to a deux es machina that just revives people.
As for Oda, I think as long as he keeps his adventure as first rate and more important than the fights, he may never get into the trap. Sure OP is predictable, but there is so much more going on to prevent it from being dull.