I'm wondering now … moria's scar ... could Kaidou be a swordsman yonkou?
Chapter 480 "Counterattack" Discussion
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@MonkeyDMalcolm:
i think the last thing left for moria to do is to release the shadows after that blow to OZ stomach (where moria was at) i don't think he can do much
You underestimate a Shichibukai.
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@Lobster:
Something unexpected needs to happen next (involving old characters)… Like Thriller Bark suddenly sinks... into FISHMAN Island. Maybe they run into Gin there or something...
Gin's dead. He only had a few hours to live, enough to get himself to the Grand Line and then die.
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I'm wondering now … moria's scar ... could Kaidou be a swordsman yonkou?
Mmm.. I'm not sure. That might be interesting, though. Maybe another Mihawk buddy, too. :blink:
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Nah. Kaidou ripped off Moria's neck with his teeth. He's so badass that he eats seakings for breakfast after catching them with his bare hands.
But going back to the chapter…
I'm hoping that Kuma will go nutz and smack everyone in the head with his Bible.
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I'm wondering now … moria's scar ... could Kaidou be a swordsman yonkou?
Im hoping for some more other weapon users..
Like a axe/spear wielder? -
@Onemoment: You changed your avatar! That's bad.
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Im hoping for some more other weapon users..
Like a axe/spear wielder?I totally back up this idea. More weapons!
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@Fire Fist:
Gin's dead. He only had a few hours to live, enough to get himself to the Grand Line and then die.
I, for one belive for certain that Gin will come back and meet Luffy. Not sure exactly why. Just don't believe Oda would put in that sentence that he would meet Luffy in the Grand Line for nothing. But I don't know why I would need any really solid arguments against someone who are sure that Davy Jones will be the final villian. ´
But, wouldn't you like it if Gin came back, looking all badass, totally crushing Jinbei? Now being captain over Krieg and 1000 men. :wub: -
we need a sniper/archer shichibukai
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I, for one belive for certain that Gin will come back and meet Luffy….
One of the few future encounters I´d happily bet my money on.
For the current chapter, just let me state how much I´m pleased with it. This is the stuff legends are made of (especially since there are witnesses).
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we need a sniper/archer shichibukai
Jep, or Yonkou/Admiral..
I wonder who the best sniper on the grandline is, and how that sniper holds his own in battle. We've only seen Usopp fight untill now, and just a little bit of Auger. -
we need a sniper/archer shichibukai
dunno. If you are saying that so that Usopp gets a fight his final fight is gonna be Van Auger.
Plus there are only two members of the crew that are gonna beat Shichibukais. Luffy and Zoro. Don't see anyone else having a one-on-one with them. Maybe some navy members and stuff but as only Usopp, Luffy and Zoro's dreams relying on fighting I don't think (hope) anyone else will really have a "final fight"
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Jep, or Yonkou/Admiral..
I wonder who the best sniper on the grandline is, and how that sniper holds his own in battle. We've only seen Usopp fight untill now, and just a little bit of Auger.Isn't Yasopp known as the best or one of the best?
Not sure, but I remember something about this, unfortunately, i think it was in the anime, so it could be filler…This chapter was made of win all around. I expect the next chapter to consist of Moria trying to do some sneaky counter-offensive (or run away), and the SHs will look for a way to purify Orz.
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Isn't Yasopp known as the best or one of the best?
Not sure, but I remember something about this, unfortunately, i think it was in the anime, so it could be filler…His own dad? Nah… but maybe someone his dad got beaten by...
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Daddy the Father states that Yassop is the best sniper there is. Daddy the Father's word is canon, because Oda actually novelized the events of Loguetown, as he didn't have time to draw them into the series.
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@Fire Fist:
Yassop is the best sniper there is.
If I learned anything in the fourth grade, that is an opinion. Unless Daddy fought every sniper ever.
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@Fire Fist:
Daddy the Father states that Yassop is the best sniper there is. Daddy the Father's word is canon, because Oda actually novelized the events of Loguetown, as he didn't have time to draw them into the series.
That novel is not official One Piece canon! It isn´t even written by Oda. He just submitted the basic ideas of what he had in mind for then. But it´s not canon unless it happens in the manga or at least gets elaborated in the data books or in an SBS!
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That novel is not official One Piece canon! It isn´t even written by Oda. He just submitted the basic ideas of what he had in mind for then. But it´s not canon unless it happens in the manga or at least gets elaborated in the data books or in an SBS!
I think it's fairly safe to say that Yassop is at least one of the best snipers out there.
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dunno. If you are saying that so that Usopp gets a fight his final fight is gonna be Van Auger.
Plus there are only two members of the crew that are gonna beat Shichibukais. Luffy and Zoro. Don't see anyone else having a one-on-one with them. Maybe some navy members and stuff but as only Usopp, Luffy and Zoro's dreams relying on fighting I don't think (hope) anyone else will really have a "final fight"
I don't see why not, considering that most SHs get a fight every arc. Why would the final arc be so different?
As for the shichibukai, I think you're underestimating the SHs. The shichibukai seem, and are, strong for now, but I find that the longer time goes on that static yet strong characters seem less powerful by comparison. Meanwhile, the SHs actually are getting stronger as the series goes on.
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As for the shichibukai, I think you're underestimating the SHs. The shichibukai seem, and are, strong for now, but I find that the longer time goes on that static yet strong characters seem less powerful by comparison. Meanwhile, the SHs actually are getting stronger as the series goes on.
I can see that a Shichibukai can be beaten by Sanji or other strong crewmember, but heck if one of them loses to someone like cough cough Usopp, the meaning of the organization will become a joke.
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I can see that a Shichibukai can be beaten by Sanji or other strong crewmember, but heck if one of them loses to someone like cough cough Usopp, the meaning of the organization will become a joke.
That's fine, I just want to get my theory out there. Based on the current developments, Donflamingo and Kuma seem like shichibukai who will fight members of the SH crew aside from Luffy later on.
And, I figured out why they most likely won't be doing otherwise. There abilities are being vaguely hinted at just like the other great fighters of this series (Croc and Moria). If they were going to fight someone else, I think it'd make more sense for Oda to reveal everything about their power at once like he did with Ace (his ability is easy to wrap your head around, right?). A fight with two people with vague, underdeveloped abilities doesn't work. So, they're probably going to fight either one of the SHs or someone like Smoker.
But, that's a long way away. Anyway, I also agree that Yassop must be one of the top snipers on the world. He got hyped up enough to suggest that.
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I can see that a Shichibukai can be beaten by Sanji or other strong crewmember, but heck if one of them loses to someone like cough cough Usopp, the meaning of the organization will become a joke.
Huh? I didn't don't see anyone of the ôka Shichibukai losing to any of the SH besides Luffy. Zoro gots Mihawk.
But hearing Sanji or Robin being able to take out the likes of Doflamingo, would makes the Shichibukai hell all World Powers look like trash. -
Huh? I didn't don't see anyone of the ôka Shichibukai losing to any of the SH besides Luffy. Zoro gots Mihawk.
But hearing Sanji or Robin being able to take out the likes of Doflamingo, would makes the Shichibukai hell all World Powers look like trash.Wait, are you saying that Sanji and Robin are trash? Why is that, they're
strong enough, and Luffy can't fight all of them–his bounty is going to surpass there's in the next arc save for something insane happening.Don't worry so much about the dignity of the shichibukai anyway, it can be mantained well enough even if they lose. What does it mean for Kuma if Moria is defeated in this arc? All signs point to Kuma being either weaker or equal (damn frozen bounty theory...) to Moria. Luffy vs. Kuma would have as much tension as Luffy vs. Bleuno.
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Wait, are you saying that Sanji and Robin are trash?
Do you see me post "Sanji & Robin are trash" any where in my last post?
Why is that, they're
strong enough, and Luffy can't fight all of them–his bounty is going to surpass there's in the next arc save for something insane happening.Who's strong enough? Luffy bounty surpassing who's?
Don't worry so much about the dignity of the shichibukai anyway, it can be mantained well enough even if they lose. What does it mean for Kuma if Moria is defeated in this arc? All signs point to Kuma being either weaker or equal (damn frozen bounty theory…) to Moria. Luffy vs. Kuma would have as much tension as Luffy vs. Bleuno.
Kuma > Moria, at this point. its not just the dignity of the Shichibukai, its the dignity of all the World Powers.
How would Luffy vs Kuma be like Luffy vs Bleuno? -
I don't think we should consider the schichibukai as Top Notch Pirates.
I rather look at them as few of the pirates who have specific reasons to join force with the government. I mean, even that Pig Pirate Captain seemed disgusted by Crocodile, so yeah, even the pirates who act the most like pirates don't seem to like the idea of joining up with the government in any way.
There's also the thing that annoys me the most:
FROZEN BOUNTIES.
I don't know why people never thinks that maybe Crocodile or Kuma have the (probably) Lowest bounties of the schichibukai because they realized faster than the others that Joining up with the WG was a good way to increase their power (Like in Moria's case) /doanyotherthingtheywouldwantfortheirownfreakingreasons. Look at Blackbeard, the reason he doesn't have a Bounty is because he already had his mind set in a specific goal after/before becoming a pirate.
PS:
KumaVSLuffy would be like BluenoVSLuffy because Kuma has showed no interest whatsover on the strawhats besides the thing of finding out that BB actually dealt with the brother of a pèrson with such impact on the world as Luffy. Untill he shows any reasons whatsover to fight Luffy, him fighting Luffy would be plain due to the thing of him being a "Dog Government" (As far as we know) like Blueno.
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
I don't think we should consider the schichibukai as Top Notch Pirates.
But there a World Power & one of the reason why the Grand Line is called the Pirates Grave.
I rather look at them as few of the pirates who have specific reasons to join force with the government. I mean, even that Pig Pirate Captain seemed disgusted by Crocodile, so yeah, even the pirates who act the most like pirates don't seem to like the idea of joining up with the government in any way.
It was stated way at the start of the Manga that "Other Pirates think of them as Goverment dogs, but they are still powerful."
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It was stated way at the start of the Manga that "Other Pirates think of them as Goverment dogs, but they are still powerful."
Yeah, that's my point, MOST pirates wouldn't join the WG, so saying that only the strongest would join the WG is like saying that Shanks would give up in any moment his dream of being a Pirate.
Besides, for having such reasons to join forces with the WG, the schichibukai have showed so far that they are really cunning people. It's not a surprise that other pirates (including the strawhats) have problems dealing with them.
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
Yeah, that's my point, MOST pirates wouldn't join the WG, so saying that only the strongest would join the WG is like saying that Shanks would give up in any moment his dream of being a Pirate.
But I didn't say Only strong Pirates can join the WG…..Im so confused. But it was stated that Blackbeard gained his spot though Sheer power.
Besides, for having such reasons to join forces with the WG, the schichibukai have showed so far that they are really cunning people. It's not a surprise that other pirates (including the strawhats) have problems dealing with them.
Well Real Pirates are supose to be cunnig.:P
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Dammit, this has suddenly become like all those lame shichibukai discussions from a few years ago.
Do you see me post "Sanji & Robin are trash" any where in my last post?
My point was it seems like you're suggesting that. What's the big shame if the likes of Sanji and Robin beat some shichibukai?
Who's strong enough? Luffy bounty surpassing who's?
Robin Sanji strong enough. Luffy surpassing Kuma Don's bounties unless something weird happens.
So, Luffy is currently surpassing these two without even fighting them.
Kuma > Moria, at this point.
Wait, what? No! God no! Why would you think that?
its not just the dignity of the Shichibukai, its the dignity of all the World Powers.
How would Luffy vs Kuma be like Luffy vs Bleuno?It wouldn't be a final boss fight is what I'm saying. It'd be Luffy fighting somone who's easily in his league. It'd be stupid for Kuma and Luffy to fight after all that's happened, for the sake of Kuma's character something else has to happen.
Also, I don't think we can compare the current shichibukai to the rest of the world powers without seeing more admirals and yonkou. Let's keep them out of this for now.
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
PS:
KumaVSLuffy would be like BluenoVSLuffy because Kuma has showed no interest whatsover on the strawhats besides the thing of finding out that BB actually dealt with the brother of a pèrson with such impact on the world as Luffy. Untill he shows any reasons whatsover to fight Luffy, him fighting Luffy would be plain due to the thing of him being a "Dog Government" (As far as we know) like Blueno.
Way off…
Also, can we stop calling the shichibukai "government dogs?" Does the fact that the last guy who called them that (the pig pirates) got murdered and humilated mean nothing?
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But hearing Sanji or Robin being able to take out the likes of Doflamingo, would makes the Shichibukai hell all World Powers look like trash.
You didn't say THAT, but you said the thing above.
I mean, like the Mr.Freakedoutdude said, it shouldn't really matter that the schichibukai could be beaten by the likes of Sanji and Robin because they are not really the strongest thing that the WG has to offer. They are dispensable, the diapers of the World Government that the FES change after they get too dirty (Aka: Crocodile).
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Now I remember you, your that Doflamingo H8ter.
My point was it seems like you're suggesting that. What's the big shame if the likes of Sanji and Robin beat some shichibukai?
Hell why not have em beat a few Yonkou while they are at it.
Robin Sanji strong enough. Luffy surpassing Kuma Don's bounties unless something weird happens.
Kuma bounty is Frozen, & so is Doflamingo's bounty. Robin & Sanji are strong enough to do what?
So, Luffy is currently surpassing these two without even fighting them.
Luffy surpassing a Frozen bounty don't really mean anything.
Wait, what? No! God no! Why would you think that?
At this point, Moria has showed no fighting power, Kuma has showed he can move in an instent, & shruged off Perona's attack like nothing (When Luffy could not). Moria did nothing but sit in Odr, RUN from Luffy, Kuma still has Nami taking sit downs in her pants.
Also, I don't think we can compare the current shichibukai to the rest of the world powers without seeing more admirals and yonkou. Let's keep them out of this for now.
Sure.
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Well, I think that it's safe to assume that the conclusion of The Schichibukai being the diapers of the World Government is acceptable.
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
You didn't say THAT, but you said the thing above.
I mean, like the Mr.Freakedoutdude said, it shouldn't really matter that the schichibukai could be beaten by the likes of Sanji and Robin because they are not really the strongest thing that the WG has to offer. They are dispensable, the diapers of the World Government that the FES change after they get too dirty (Aka: Crocodile).
They are a Power that Equals the likes of the MHQ & Yonkou, It does matter if the likes of Robin can take out one & Sanji can take out another.
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Why not have Sanji or Robin defeat a Yonkou? Though not for a while, of course.
Here's how I view it. Luffy will probably become the Pirate King before the manga is over. So is it so horrible that the Pirate King might have a crewmember or two who can take on the likes of the Shichibukai or the Yonkou?
Now, obviously I don't want every Straw Hat to be on that level, having 8 or 10 people that powerful in a single crew is a bit extreme. But aside from Zoro, Robin and Sanji are pretty good choices for crew members who might reach that level.
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Huh? I didn't don't see anyone of the ôka Shichibukai losing to any of the SH besides Luffy. Zoro gots Mihawk.
But hearing Sanji or Robin being able to take out the likes of Doflamingo, would makes the Shichibukai hell all World Powers look like trash.i agree with this but i think we gotta look at the final fights through the ideas of "Dreams"
like i said only Luffy, Zoro and Usopp's dreams require a fight to complete.
Unless someone is guarding a world map, the rio poneglyph, a miracle medicene, all blue, laboon and something that Franky would care about, i don't see them have a FINAL FIGHT against someone amazing.
that's it
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Now I remember you, your that Doflamingo H8ter.
…is that directed at me or the other guy? Cause I have nothing aginst Donflamingo. In fact, I think he's going to be a great guy. Actually, I think all the shichibukai are going to be epic, legendary characters. That's what they're supposed to be right?
But, just because you love a character doesn't mean they need to get the best of everything. What if, instead of a Luffy boss, Donflamingo fight Robin is a battle that effects the fate of the 100 year history, and in effect the world? That's sounds like an epic conflict, right?
Meanwhile, you suggested putting a great character into a recycled Alabasta arc.Hell why not have em beat a few Yonkou while they are at it.
That has nothing to do with anything.
Kuma bounty is Frozen, & so is Doflamingo's bounty. Robin & Sanji are strong enough to do what?
See, this is where we disagree. I believe that the frozen bounty theory is retarded. Kuma and Don don't have a secret power level that we don't know about. They're super powerful pirates, but they have a limit.
Also, based on this theory there's no proof that Kuma and Donflamingo aren't weaker then their bounties either. It's just not a good argument.But, even if we ignore bounties for a minute, then all signs point to Kuma being on par with Moria. First off, Moria can teleport too with Doppelman, remember? Also, beating Perona doesn't reflect much on his strength, nor does his losing to nightmare Luffy. What sign do we have that Kuma wouldn't be in the same situation if he faced what Moria has fought so far?
Luffy surpassing a Frozen bounty don't reall mean anything.
Sure it will. What's Donflamingo going to say when he meets Luffy?
By that point Luffy will have beaten two shichibukai, have a higher bounty, and most likely have great accomplishments barring some secret about Don's past being revealed. It's going to get even worse if we assume that Luffy has a conflict with Jimbei before then.
These guys needs bragging right before they fight. Croc had it, Moria has it. It wouldn't seem right if Kuma and Don challenged Luffy with nothing to hold over him. It wouldn't make sense from a storyline point of view either. So, what do we do with these guys then?
Have them fight someone weaker. The other Shs having lower bounties and have never fought shichibukai before. With that plotline, there's tension (assuming the story is good at that point).
At this point, Moria has showed no fighting power, Kuma has showed he can move in an instent, & shruged off Perona's attack like nothing (When Luffy could not). Moria did nothing but sit in Odr run from Luffy, Kuma still has Nami taking sit downs in her pants.
You Moria hater….
Also, how can you believe that one shichibukai is so weak while others are so strong? Moria, Kuma, and Donflamingo all appear to be close in the same league.
Sure
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I don't hate DoFlamingo. He reminds me of a teacher who always walks like if he was trying to avoid tripping with a rock.
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See, this is where we disagree. I believe that the frozen bounty theory is retarded. Kuma and Don don't have a secret power level that we don't know about. They're super powerful pirates, but they have a limit.
Also, based on this theory there's no proof that Kuma and Donflamingo aren't weaker then their bounties either. It's just not a good argument.Uhh.. what? I'm not saying there's any proof or definite evidence that Don or Kuma are much stronger than the Shichibukai we've seen before, but the possibilty that they are makes perfect sense. Bounties aren't a good indication of strength anyways, and it's simple logic that in the case of someone who doesn't even have a bounty, only a former bounty from who knows how long ago, that former bounty may be even a worse indication of strength than a normal bounty.
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…is that directed at me or the other guy? Cause I have nothing aginst Donflamingo. In fact, I think he's going to be a great guy. Actually, I think all the shichibukai are going to be epic, legendary characters. That's what they're supposed to be right?
Your thoughts & Post on Doflamingo in the last spoiler thread conflict with this one.
But, jus because you love a character doesn't mean they need to get the best of everything. What if, instead of a Luffy boss, Donflamingo fight Robin is a battle that effects the fate of the 100 year history, and in effect the world? That's sounds like an epic conflict, right?
Doflamingo is a High class character, I don't see him fighting Luffy's underlings or being an Underling, of some Boss of an Arc Luffy is going to fight. Seeing whats been said about him, it would fit best IMO, if he had his own Arc.
Meanwhile, you suggested putting a great character into a recycled Alabasta arc.
No I didn't.
See, this is where we disagree. I believe that the frozen bounty theory is retarded. Kuma and Don don't have a secret power level that we don't know about. They're super powerful pirates, but they have a limit.
Also, based on this theory there's no proof that Kuma and Donflamingo aren't weaker then their bounties either. It's just not a good argument.You can't tell anything from Frozen Bounty's, Bounty don't always equal power levels.
But, even if we ignore bounties for a minute, then all signs point to Kuma being on par with Moria. First off, Moria can teleport too with Doppelman, remember? Also, beating Perona doesn't reflect much on his strength, nor does his losing to nightmare Luffy. What sign do we have that Kuma wouldn't be in the same situation?
Kuma does his teleporting in an instant. Kuma shruged off Perona's attack, when Luffy could not. Can you take a hint from Oda? Kuma Teleport Moria way out into the Sea.
Sure it will. What's Donflamingo going to say when he meets Luffy?
It really does not, they became ôka Shichibukai to get rid of there bounties.
By that point Luffy will have beaten two shichibukai, have a higher bounty, and most likely have great accomplishments barring some secret about Don's past being revealed. It's going to get even worse if we assume that Luffy has a conflict with Jimbei before then.
So Luffy surpassing a Guy or a few Guys that don't care about there bounties means Luffy is stronger?
These guys needs bragging right before they fight. Croc had it, Moria has it. It wouldn't seem right if Kuma and Don challenged with nothing to hold over him. It wouldn't make sense from a storyline point of view either. So, what do we do with these guys then?
Frozen Bouty is not there braging rights it there Titles.
Perona: That's one of the Seven Armed Seas!!
The "Despot,"
Bartholomew Kuma!!!
(flop…)
...the man who once committed every atrocity known to piratekind...!!!Zombies: Whaaaaat?!!
You're kidding!
Seven Armed Seas?!!
Impossible!
This man is on the same level as Moria-sama…!!
...W-what's he doing here in Thriller Bark?!!If it where then they would have been talking about Kuma's bounty, but they are not.
Have them fight someone weaker. The other Shs having lower bounties and have never fought shichibukai before. With that plotline, there's tension (assuming the story is good at that point).
Oh, the SH has fought Shichibukai before, we had Robin get beat by Her old Boss, & She fought Moria only to get KOed.
You Moria hater….
I don't h8te, if I where, I would have Never said "at this point."
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Also, based on this theory there's no proof that Kuma and Donflamingo aren't weaker then their bounties either. It's just not a good argument
a frozen bounty is no proof at all for their current strenght just like you say. They could be either weaker or stronger.
it's proof that they HAVE been a great threat to the WG in the past, but tells us nothing really about what they can do in present times. For that we will have to look at other achivements
I dont think we are useing it as an argument that they are stronger now then their frozen bounty would indicate. We are just saying that your argument about Luffy being stronger then them for surpassing their frozen bounty is bull. We will not know that untill we come to their arcs and Oda compares them.
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@Onemomnet:
Also, how can you believe that one shichibukai is so weak while others are so strong? Moria, Kuma, and Donflamingo all appear to be close in the same league.
What makes you say this? don't Tell me you used the bounty system. Nice post Gorlom.
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Your thoughts & Post on Doflamingo in the last spoiler thread conflict with this one.
Doflamingo is a High class character, I don't see him fighting Luffy's underlings or being an Underling, of some Boss of an Arc Luffy is going to fight. Seeing whats been said about him, it would fit best IMO, if he had his own Arc.
There's a limit to high class. The type of arc I'm suggesting could be the following things: something involving Majieroa (sp), something involving Raftel, etc. The point is, there are a lot of scenarioes where Don can fight without being the arc boss. Btw, you're not still suggesting that Don will be an arc boss do you? Cause he can still be awesome without owning his own arc.
You can't tell anything from Frozen bounty's, Bounty don't always equal power levels.
If they don't mean anything, then stop using them to justify your point, okay?
Kuma does his teleporting in an instant. Kuma shruged off Perona's attack, when Luffy could not. Can you take a hint from Oda? Kuma Teleport Moria way out into the Sea.
And Moria can tear off Kuma's shadow and burn him in the sun, what's your point? Moria's teleporting is close enough, and…what does Luffy not dodging have to do with Moria? Why wouldn't Moria do the same thing if Perona attacked him?
There's no reason to suggest that Moria is weaker then Kuma, except for the fact that he currently been hurt by NM Luffy, i.e. showing vulnerability, whereas Kuma has not. And...that's a really shallow reason don't you think? Are you telling me that if Kuma went up against Luffy that his face wouldn't get collaspsed in the same way?
It really does not, they became ôka Shichibukai to get rid of there bounties.
I'm not talking to you about bounties any more. Bounties are just really big numbers from now on, okay?
So Luffy surpassing a Guy or a few Guys that don't care about there bounties means Luffy is stronger?
No….Luffy surpassing a few guys who are in the same league means that Luffy is stronger.
Frozen Bouty is not there braging rights it there Titles.
Isn't "the guy who beat two shichibukai" a better title then "shichibukai?" Think about it, cause I don't think you're putting very much thought into this at all.
Oh, the SH has fought Shichibukai before, we had Robin get beat by Her old Boss, & She fought Moria only to get KOed.
Exactly! That makes for even more tension, which is why "Donflamingo versus some other SH" makes for a great match.
I don't h8te, if I where, I would have Never said "at this point."
Well, where exactly are you getting that Moria is weaking then Kuma and Donflamingo? I mean, Don I get, but the only reason people seem to think that Kuma is stronger is cause they like his character design better.
What makes you say this? don't Tell me you used the bounty system. Nice post Gorlom.
Okay…they where do you get otherwise? If we don't go by the bounty system, then by that logic Moria could be stronger then Kuma and Donflamingo right?
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a frozen bounty is no proof at all for their current strenght just like you say. They could be either weaker or stronger.
it's proof that they HAVE been a great threat to the WG in the past, but tells us nothing really about what they can do in present times. For that we will have to look at other achivements
I dont think we are useing it as an argument that they are stronger now then their frozen bounty would indicate. We are just saying that your argument about Luffy being stronger then them for surpassing their frozen bounty is bull. We will not know that untill we come to their arcs and Oda compares them.
I agree, a Shichi former bounty has as much relevance towards his current strength as Luffy's 100 mil former bounty. In both cases, the numbers are simply indicitive of how much of a threat the World Government viewed them at some time in the past. Not their current, or even past, strength.
Now, as for my complete thoughts on the matter, I personally think that at some time before the end of the manga, at least one member of the Straw Hat crew other than Luffy or Zoro will fight and defeat someone who is on the level of the Shichibukai. Be it an actual Shichi or one of the Yonkou, or an admiral, or someone else entirely. I don't have any real evidence for this theory, it's just a hunch of mine.
But at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if we also see Luffy fight a Shichibukai or Yonkou who has a former or current bounty lower than Luffy's current bounty. While it may be typicial for the shounen genre to have the main villian of a story arc brag a lot and view the main character as inferior and nothing but a rookie, who's to say Oda has to follow that till the end? Will every single villian view Luffy as inferior and not a threat, right up until the very point Luffy becomes Pirate King? "HAHAHAH LUFFY, YOU'RE JUST A ROOKIE! Even though you've made it to the shores of Raftel, which only 3 people in history have done, the other's being me and the former Pirate King! You are obviously weak!!!"
Or will there perhaps actually be a villian for a main story arc who sees Luffy as an equal? Someone who doesn't underestimate him, someone who is strong despite his lower bounty or whatever, and who is still a threat.
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There's a limit to high class. The type of arc I'm suggesting could be the following things: something involving Majieroa (sp), something involving Raftel, etc. The point is, there are a lot of scenarioes where Don can fight without being the arc boss. Btw, you're not still suggesting that Don will be an arc boss do you? Cause he can still be awesome without owning his own arc, look at guys like Kaku or Bon Clay.
Again seeing whats been said about Doflamingo, it seems that he will be a Arc Boss.
If they don't mean anything, then stop using them to justify your point, okay?
Your the one who brought it up.
And Moria can tear off Kuma's shadow and burn him in the sun, what's your point? Moria's teleporting is close enough, and…what does Luffy not dodging have to do with Moria? Why wouldn't Moria do the same thing if Perona attacked him?
Moria would not be able to touch a shadow that moves in an instant. In the Next instant he would be in the Ocean. I didn't say anthing about Luffy dodging, I said Luffy could not shrug off Perona's attack like Kuma did.
There's no reason to suggest that Moria is weaker then Kuma, except for the fact that he currently been hurt by NM Luffy, i.e. showing vulnerability, whereas Kuma has not. And…that's a really shallow reason don't you think? Are you telling me that if Kuma went up against Luffy that his face wouldn't get collaspsed in the same way?
Moria is not the type of Guy who does it himself, His weapon Odr is beaten. Kuma a guy who is handling his…..himself.
I'm not talking to you about bounties any more. Bounties are just really big numbers from now on, okay?
You keep talking as if, Im the one who brought it up.
No….Luffy surpassing a few guys who are in the same league means that Luffy is stronger! Was I too subtle last time?
So how is Luffy surpassing Doflamingo & Kuma, when they have yet to fight or anything? or beat someone above them 2?
Isn't "the guy who beat two shichibukai" a better title then "shichibukai?" Think about it, cause I don't think you're putting very much thought into this at all.
You act as if TB is over, Besides the Shichibukais Power are all diffrent, they are not the same in power. It really don't matter if Luffy beat 2, Because Doflamingo can be stronger then the 2 Luffy beat.
Exactly! That makes for even more tension, which is why "Donflamingo versus some other SH" makes for a great match.
Not really I already see it, & the SH member got KOed, & it would be a waste for a high Class char to fight a SH underling.
Well, where exactly are you getting that Moria is weaking then Kuma and Donflamingo? I mean, Don I get, but the only reason people seem to think that Kuma is stronger is cause they like his character design better.
If you understand it about Doflamingo, why not Kuma?
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HOLY SHIT!
stop it!
there has been so much debate about this crap before
stop it!
this is a chapter discussion. there are only two things to talk about Odr's spine getting broken and what might happen with MoriaI do realize that I broke this rule and I apolgoize
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People never learn. They just love to debate about power levels and crap involving Luffy beating the strongest characters.
Anyways, I was expecting something more…..
Epic, like Giganto Rifle crushing Oddz like a drill all the way down to the ground...
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
Epic, like Giganto Rifle crushing Oddz like a drill all the way down to the ground…
Now, now…they have to leave something to wow us with next arc.
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Well, Oda's obviously saving Jet Storm and Giganto Gattling Gun, so yeah, Giganto Rifle is either too hard to pull in a logical way or it's just Luffy's second strongest atack before Jet Storm.
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I forgot if Gear Third had any consequences like Gear Second does. O.O Can I be reminded if there is any?