Toriyama had a bunch of things going on while Oda only has OP, that's why.
(10th Anniversary) One Piece: Treasures Scans
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That's the beauty of it. One series, one focus and one crator that's totally into his work and as Oda said himself "I get paid to sketch and do what I love."
Right on!
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Oda is a Monster Hunter fan???? God my appreciation ti this man just grows and grows.
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See, that's yet another thing I love about the man.
He must be as busy as hell but he rarely complains about it and still takes more time to interact with fans than any other author I've seen.
Toriyama was constantly bitching about being busy and pressure and stuff and between doing DB and DQ designs as well as other projects, yeah, I'm sure he had a reason, but Oda doesn't dwell on that. You can really tell he loves what he does.
And that I believe is the main reason why his series is soooo popular. Take TB for example. It's just a mini-arc. He could easily wrap it up as quickly as possible. But he takes his time with it and even though it is just a mini-arc, he holds nothing back and gives it the full supreme Oda-sensei worthy pwnage treatment! He loves what he does and to him, no arc gets second best from him.
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78 Jump covers & whole lotta tanks sold.
(Courtesy of JoJo Hot)
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Toriyama had a bunch of things going on while Oda only has OP, that's why.
Well, Toriyama had what? Dragon Quest on his plate? And a couple promotional things here and there?
But when you look at his interviews he just bitches and moans about how difficult writing DB was and how bored he got with it. Not to mention his totally forgetting major characters etc.
Then you've got Oda who does NOTHING but talk about how much he enjoys doing the series, loves his characters, holds the seiyuu in high respect and even hangs out with them. Then consider all his color works and especially his feverish work during the 10th Anniversary mayhem, but any complaints? Barely any serious grumbles at all. He's an amazing guy.
Seriously, his work on the 10th Anniversary from a consulting standpoint must have been crazy.
And he still makes room for SBS…he's the manga fan's manga artist.
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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0ETQ9P9M
Just scanned a high quality version of the NamixRobin Bath color spread! :)
download away :D!!
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@Battle:
78 Jump covers & whole lotta tanks sold.
[qimg]http://img14.imagevenue.com/loc666/th_06841_AD1_122_666lo.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://img120.imagevenue.com/loc930/th_06847_AD2_122_930lo.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc687/th_06853_AD3_122_687lo.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://img129.imagevenue.com/loc541/th_06860_AD4_122_541lo.jpg[/qimg]
(Courtesy of JoJo Hot)
Are you kidding me?! Is that last image accurate?! That's incredible!!! THAT'S INSANE!
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I'd assume so. But yeh, I'm surprised myself! All those tankos could fill the entire Palette Town area. (That place is HUGE)
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I'm gonna have to request the size of that ship at all possible. I mean they threw Marry in there for reference and compared to the characters she is HUGE. Is the ship as tall as The Empire State Building and as wide as two of them or something?
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Are you kidding me?! Is that last image accurate?! That's incredible!!! THAT'S INSANE!
It just goes to show you how big of a deal One piece is.
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Well, Toriyama had what? Dragon Quest on his plate? And a couple promotional things here and there?
But when you look at his interviews he just bitches and moans about how difficult writing DB was and how bored he got with it. Not to mention his totally forgetting major characters etc.
I agree, I rly hate Toriyama's attitude towards well…everything as Dragonball went on. If I was a huge DB fan I'd be totally disapointed that all the creator does is point out it's flaws and say how unethusiastic he was for the entire second half of the series. And atleast when other god-tier mangaka like Takehiko INoue-sensei bitch about the work, it was BECAUSE he wanted to spend more time making his comic perfect but couldnt with the crazy SJ schedules.
I guess you have to remember, unlike those guys, Toriyama isn't a guy who grew up loving manga and is basically lazy guy who couldn't get a job doing anything else and just fell into it. He's really lucky he ended up showing talent and having things work out the way they did for him.
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Personally, I think Toriyama had a right to bitch. He wanted to end his story but constant pressure from his fans and his editors had him continue past what he wanted his story to be.
I feel any story teller who is made to do more with their story than they want should have a right to bitch. I mean I hear he wanted to end it with Frieza, but fans and editors demanded more and caused him to do Cell, and then again with Buu.
That's a hella a lot of extra he seems to have had to do that he didn't want to deal with but did in the end for the sake of his fans and editors. That I feel earned him the right to complain.
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Dragonball first ended with Frieza, then again with Cell from what I've read. But ppl demanded more so he kept going. But once again, I'm going to make the Inoue-sensei comparison. He was in the same league as Slam Dunk and One Piece and when he was still doing the series and didn't like the pressure that was being put on him to do things he didn't want to or rush stories just to crank them out, he got fed up and ended it early! Then left and started his own company that would hold rights to anything he created in the future. Ultimately becoming his own boss.
Noone held a gun to Toriyama's head or anything. Ultimately he wanted more money so he kept going. I doubt he gave a damn about what the fans wanted. And unlike Toriyama who hasn't had a hit since Dr.Slump or Dragonball, pretty much every post-Slam Dunk series by INoue-sensei is popular, well received, not to mention wins tons of awards. In the end, Toriyama is rich beyond wealthy due to Dr.Slump and ESPECIALLY DB. I don't think he has anything to bitch about. I mean, it's been years and every interview seems like complaining and talking about how much DB sucked and he could've done better with this or that..
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I mean I hear he wanted to end it with Frieza, but fans and editors demanded more and caused him to do Cell, and then again with Buu.
That's kinda the source of the problem there. Why did he want to end it? It had plenty of potential and it was clearly a landmark series. Oda wanted to end OP in 5 years but he's not whining that it took off, he's relishing in it which is fantastic and speaks a good deal for his character.
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Honestly I'd probably feel similar if I were Toriyama.
Personality's a big part of it. Even during Dr. Slump he complained about editors and stuff.
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I agree with Toriyama too. Sure the series may have had more life, but the man obviously grew tired with editors and whatnot. Can't blame him either. I'd feel the same way if I was forced to change and continue my series after I ended it the way I wanted to. The series was already real long anyways and the Freeza Saga would've been a satifsfactory ending, although I liked the final better.
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I don't blame him for feeling that way at all. He's just a person.
But at least be happy that you're making thousands of people (millions even when you consider around the world) very happy.
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So Greg, what the hell is up with the SBS K or whatever? (if asked early sorry I missed it)
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Oh is that the thing by his editor? I haven't looked at it yet. My girlfriend has summer vacation so we've been going out a lot. When she goes back to work and I'm left a lonely empty soul with nothing to do until September I'll get on it unless someone else hits it up.
Edit:
Haha! Read some while I was waiting for her to do makeup. It's pretty funny.
Example:
[To Oda's assistants]
What's popular in the studio at the moment?
Yoko-san, Mo-san, O-san, T-san: MONSTER HUNTER PORTABLE 2ND
Yoko-san: I don't play it myself but everyone is infatuated with MHP2. I'm personally infatuated with Leah Dizon.
HAH!
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Not so good-natured, are you, Greg. だが、安心しろよ、これ以上はナンセンスだから。あんたはあたしの話を聞きたくねえし、もう仕方ねえだろう。Your message says everything for you as well as pretty much answers the long-standing question of mine as to why there're so many Japanese-to-English manga translations of average and below average level omitting parts that never should be left out on one hand, and so few of higher level on the other hand. Just think between this and that about why it even takes 6 full years of training to make a somewhat decent interpreter/ translator out of people who at the beginning of the training already have mastering of at least one foreign language at no less than intermediate or upper-intermediate level and 10 years more of intense professional practice to get a first-rate pro if pretty much anyone with some knowledge of 2 languages could do the job the way it should be done like in good ol' times when there was no such thing as powerful theoretical basis and its practical application - the purpose of its developing, as well as realization that the process of translation is not just about understanding the basic meaning of an utterance in one language and putting it into words of another, but about decomposition an utterance in its source language down to the lowest language level in order to see all the shades of meaning, implications, effects and references and then recreation of this utterance in the target language preserving as much of these shades and effects as possible, using compensatory mechanisms if necessary, creating not equal, but mandatory equivalent translation. Unless one understands it, one cannot claim to be a 'real translator' you're talkin' about.
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@CrazedGirl:
Not so good-natured, are you, Greg. だが、安心しろよ、これ以上はナンセンスだから。あんたはあたしの話を聞きたくねえし、もう仕方ねえだろう。Your message says everything for you as well as pretty much answers the long-standing question of mine as to why there're so many Japanese-to-English manga translations of average and below average level omitting parts that never should be left out on one hand, and so few of higher level on the other hand. Just think between this and that about why it even takes 6 full years of training to make a somewhat decent interpreter/ translator out of people who at the beginning of the training already have mastering of at least one foreign language at no less than intermediate or upper-intermediate level and 10 years more of intense professional practice to get a first-rate pro if pretty much anyone with some knowledge of 2 languages could do the job the way it should be done like in good ol' times when there was no such thing as powerful theoretical basis and its practical application - the purpose of its developing, as well as realization that the process of translation is not just about understanding the basic meaning of an utterance in one language and putting it into words of another, but about decomposition an utterance in its source language down to the lowest language level in order to see all the shades of meaning, implications, effects and references and then recreation of this utterance in the target language preserving as much of these shades and effects as possible, using compensatory mechanisms if necessary, creating not equal, but mandatory equivalent translation. Unless one understands it, one cannot claim to be a 'real translator' you're talkin' about.
Big blue angry block of text wants to crush you!(sorry i only got halfway before i felt the need to post an image of a "thwomp")
Edit: this is works better in Grandline theme then the CP9 one…
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I ignore CrazedGirl's posts here, but I read Greg's replies to her. XD
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erm if you're trying to impress him with big fancy words that make you feel smart, it won't work.
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That's kinda the source of the problem there. Why did he want to end it? It had plenty of potential and it was clearly a landmark series. Oda wanted to end OP in 5 years but he's not whining that it took off, he's relishing in it which is fantastic and speaks a good deal for his character.
Well with Oda, it could be that he ended up making the story on his own accord longer than he intended it to. Though I've read that Togashi cut YYH in half (the ending was clealry rushed, he even had a sign somewhat spiting readings being held up by one of the characters I think) due to disagreements with his editor, so Toriyama likely could've ended it he wanted.
Going from comments I generally see in interviews, most mangakas might feel pressured by their work even if they want to draw manga, while it seems there's some Toriyama hate in this thread, but I'm not aware of what type of comments he made to warrant that hate except saying Oda is great for like every part of his work unlike him. Though he said that the part he wants people to be happy with his work (but from comments above, appearantly doing stuff for others to enjoy that you might not like every part of isn't all that good.)
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speaking of tanks, anyone know a good place to order them offline.
Planned on buying japanese versions of One piece and Hunter for a while now. Now that I have some extra cash, figured I'd start now.
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@CrazedGirl:
Not so good-natured, are you, Greg. だが、安心しろよ、これ以上はナンセンスだから。あんたはあたしの話を聞きたくねえし、もう仕方ねえだろう。Your message says everything for you as well as pretty much answers the long-standing question of mine as to why there're so many Japanese-to-English manga translations of average and below average level omitting parts that never should be left out on one hand, and so few of higher level on the other hand. Just think between this and that about why it even takes 6 full years of training to make a somewhat decent interpreter/ translator out of people who at the beginning of the training already have mastering of at least one foreign language at no less than intermediate or upper-intermediate level and 10 years more of intense professional practice to get a first-rate pro if pretty much anyone with some knowledge of 2 languages could do the job the way it should be done like in good ol' times when there was no such thing as powerful theoretical basis and its practical application - the purpose of its developing, as well as realization that the process of translation is not just about understanding the basic meaning of an utterance in one language and putting it into words of another, but about decomposition an utterance in its source language down to the lowest language level in order to see all the shades of meaning, implications, effects and references and then recreation of this utterance in the target language preserving as much of these shades and effects as possible, using compensatory mechanisms if necessary, creating not equal, but mandatory equivalent translation. Unless one understands it, one cannot claim to be a 'real translator' you're talkin' about.
Holy pompous paragraphless rant batman, we found the vagina-equipped version of Pipboy.
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Personally, I think Toriyama had a right to bitch. He wanted to end his story but constant pressure from his fans and his editors had him continue past what he wanted his story to be.
I feel any story teller who is made to do more with their story than they want should have a right to bitch. I mean I hear he wanted to end it with Frieza, but fans and editors demanded more and caused him to do Cell, and then again with Buu.
That's a hella a lot of extra he seems to have had to do that he didn't want to deal with but did in the end for the sake of his fans and editors. That I feel earned him the right to complain.
I agree. Toriyama could bitch if he wants too. It is true that he wanted to end the series with Freeza and Goku dieing, however, the fans and directors forced him to continue. I guess I can't really be angry at this decision because I would have hated it if Dragon Ball had ended there.
However, the fact that Toriyama went beyond the Cell saga is purely because of fans. I mean, it would have been perfect! Gohan finally surpassed his father! DBZ was all about boosting the fact that Gohan has hidden power. I would have loved it if Toriyama just ended it there. I heard he continued because Japan (being the Goku lovers they are) couldn't tolerate his death.
Now I'll stop my Dragon Ball rant. How about those tankoban scans! That is really something…if they can cover the entire Palette Town area...unbelievable.
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@CrazedGirl:
Not so good-natured, are you, Greg. だが、安心しろよ、これ以上はナンセンスだから。あんたはあたしの話を聞きたくねえし、もう仕方ねえだろう。Your message says everything for you as well as pretty much answers the long-standing question of mine as to why there're so many Japanese-to-English manga translations of average and below average level omitting parts that never should be left out on one hand, and so few of higher level on the other hand. Just think between this and that about why it even takes 6 full years of training to make a somewhat decent interpreter/ translator out of people who at the beginning of the training already have mastering of at least one foreign language at no less than intermediate or upper-intermediate level and 10 years more of intense professional practice to get a first-rate pro if pretty much anyone with some knowledge of 2 languages could do the job the way it should be done like in good ol' times when there was no such thing as powerful theoretical basis and its practical application - the purpose of its developing, as well as realization that the process of translation is not just about understanding the basic meaning of an utterance in one language and putting it into words of another, but about decomposition an utterance in its source language down to the lowest language level in order to see all the shades of meaning, implications, effects and references and then recreation of this utterance in the target language preserving as much of these shades and effects as possible, using compensatory mechanisms if necessary, creating not equal, but mandatory equivalent translation. Unless one understands it, one cannot claim to be a 'real translator' you're talkin' about.
I've noticed there are two big differences between amateurs and real professionals.
Amateurs tell others how it should be done and give their advice freely.
Professionals ask others why they've done it a certain way and carefully dole out advice only when asked.
Well with Oda, it could be that he ended up making the story on his own accord longer than he intended it to. Though I've read that Togashi cut YYH in half (the ending was clealry rushed, he even had a sign somewhat spiting readings being held up by one of the characters I think) due to disagreements with his editor, so Toriyama likely could've ended it he wanted.
Oh this is most certainly the case I agree. I mean forget the overall series, just look at his arcs. It took him three years to get to the 'death' of Merry after he originally announced it JF AND fully intended to get to it the next year. I mean holy crap guys. THREE YEARS of unplanned material. And it's not like he wasn't a pro at that point. He had already orchestrated the amazing Arabasta arc so…
Going from comments I generally see in interviews, most mangakas might feel pressured by their work even if they want to draw manga, while it seems there's some Toriyama hate in this thread, but I'm not aware of what type of comments he made to warrant that hate except saying Oda is great for like every part of his work unlike him. Though he said that the part he wants people to be happy with his work (but from comments above, appearantly doing stuff for others to enjoy that you might not like every part of isn't all that good.)
I don't hate Toriyama in the least. I owe him basically….well...for basically everything that's happened in my life since I was 14. I think he's human. But you can really see the difference between the two as mangaka when they talk about their series.
Toriyama couldn't finish DB fast enough, and Oda takes 3 years to finish a storyline he planned to take less than one and doesn't do it half-assed either.
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still cant find this book
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Though I've read that Togashi cut YYH in half (the ending was clealry rushed, he even had a sign somewhat spiting readings being held up by one of the characters I think) due to disagreements with his editor, so Toriyama likely could've ended it he wanted.
Togashi-sensei was forced to end YYH early, even though it was popular enough to keep going, not to mention it was in the middle of arc. But the owner of the series made bad business dicissions or something and went under from all the reports I've read, so he was given ten issues to wrap it all up, right when he was in the middle of a storyline.
I agree w/Greg about the difference between them. I don't like Toriyama's attitude because he seems rly ungrateful for all his success in enterviews. He always talks like it's such a chore to do what he does/did when millions of ppl in Japan would love to have his job and be half as successful as he was at it. Oda-sensei on the other hand, seems totally grateful and enthusiastic, not to mention appreciative of every bit of success he's had.
I just hope OP isn't the only manga he ever writes in his lifetime. The only good thing about the series ending may be seeing the follow up series. He could be aone hit wonder or for all we know, OP could be his Dr.Slump and his dragonball could be whatever he does next!
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Doubt it^^ Anything that comes after One Piece will probably be a Doctor Slump. Though if Oda-Sensei does keep coming up with 20-year smash hit series, he'll only be able to come up with two more at the least. Anyway, if the man does have a fault, it's that he draws so much. But the reason being that he wants to perfect an arc as much as possible and he pulls out all the stops for it. Look at TB. It's been 8 months and it's nowhere near completion yet and it's just a mini-arc. Yet he treats it as great as Arabasta. One Piece is successful because it has love:wub: Or more specifically, the love of the mangaka in it.
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TB could end in two more chapters if he wanted it to. What do you mean, it's nowhere near completion?
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…how the hell can it end in two chapters? There's still Zoro's fight, Chopper's fight, Robin's fight(?), Luffy's fight, dealings with Brooke, getting away from Thriller Bark, and of course Oz (but I suppose that'll be taken care of when Moria is defeated, but I don't think it'll be that simple.)
We probably have at least 7-10 more chapters of Thriller Bark if not more.
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Anything that comes after One Piece will probably be a Doctor Slump.
But you say that as if Dr. Slump is unsuccessful.
Dr. Slump although not single-handedly responsible for JUMP being what it is today, helped it get there in a BIG way.
It was a record-holder in its day and although not something that has crossed the age barriers like DB has, is known VERY well by those who grew up with it. If you read Manga! Manga! Manga! (retarded title but AMAZING brief look at the history of manga) there's a section near modern manga that sings the praises of Slump's success and how it changed manga.
In other words, it's no slouch.
That said, Oda has expressed before that OP is not the only idea he's had for a manga and…(it may even have been in his interview in Blue I forget)... I do seem to remember him saying he doesn't want OP to be his greatest work.
Which is like saying....I have no idea. I can't possibly think of any witty metaphor for that insane statement.
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I thought he said he didn't want One Piece to be his "life's work", instead of "greatest work".
I've yet to have been exposed to anything Dr. Slump, and I realize I should probably get to reading that.
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Admiral Ackbar is my hero.
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I thought he said he didn't want One Piece to be his "life's work", instead of "greatest work".
Yes, thank you! But yeah, basically same idea. What he wants to be remembered by. Isn't that insane?
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I think he probably meant it in the sense that he doesn't want to be remembered for ONLY One Piece. Rather, that he'd want to be remembered for One Piece and several other things. It's a sentiment I can understand, actually. Who wants to be remembered for only one thing that they've done early in their lives/career and have everything afterwards be overlooked?
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