I don't think so, I feel this is going to be another Skypiea in that only the residents of this place will know what went down. Plus they get a new buddy.
Chapter 443 "Thriller Bark" Discussion
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Here, however, Brook has told the entire crew all about himself. At least everything currently relevant (his being a shadowless skeleton and why). There may be some "yet to be revealed" in his history while alive, but it just feels like he's an arc-only character. Among his main roles being to give exposition on the situations within the Florian Triangle and Thrillerburke.
That doesn't really make sense - you said he told the crew all about himself, but then go on to say how he only said what was relevant at the time. There's quite obviously a lot more to Brook than what he's told them.
But I guess that's why I'm the only one to bother commenting on your post, since you seem to just be rambling about nothing in particular.
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@Steel:
What was with Zoro's sudden silence on Page 09? His "…...." was a little more striking then usual.
Yeah, I noticed that too. My guess is that once again it's Zoro's 'danger radar' : he's picked up a bad vibe in the room and he's mulling the possibilities : is it from Brook's vampiric behavior, or from the little ghost surveillence-thingy, or from the vibrations of the gate that's closing behind them? Oda doesn't specify which one, but wherever that vibe originates from, it's probably significant. Last time we saw a pic like this of Zoro in danger-mode was when he'd spotted Blueno on the rooftop (seconds after Blueno's temporary victory over Luffy).
If Brook isn't actually our villian for this arc, then I'm expecting him to be like Tonjit – a character who is asked to join the crew initially, but who declines and is then helped by the Mugiwara to escape some sort of complication that he alone can't get himself out of ... I have no proof for my theory other than my own "danger radar" (my gut instinct) and the following :
look at the chairs around the dining room table -- they appear to be permanently bolted to the floor and immoveable, right? Notice that there are only 8 of them. If another crew member joined so soon, the balance would be upset : he'd have to sit by himself on the couch or at the bar until Franky could construct a new chair and reconfigure all the others as well as enlongate the table.
Yep, it's totally bedtime now -- look how silly I am when I'm tired.
One last thought before I log off and go to bed. That little spying-ghost thingy : it moved through the wall of the ship! Therefore, it can't be just some mechanical contraption with a sheet on top of it. It's either got to be an actual ghost, or it's got to be something that ate a ghost-like devil fruit ("Boo-Boo" fruit, anyone?) <--- agghh! that was awful!
ok, goodnight!
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One last thought before I log off and go to bed. That little spying-ghost thingy : it moved through the wall of the ship! Therefore, it can't be just some mechanical contraption with a sheet on top of it. It's either got to be an actual ghost, or it's got to be something that ate a ghost-like devil fruit ("Boo-Boo" fruit, anyone?) <–- agghh! that was awful!
ok, goodnight!
Maybe not a ghost fruit, but something along the lines of what Shadowcat uses.
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ah good night to you, but here still noon
a what a problem with the chairs!!
franky could probably make a new one in two secondsbrooke is too special to be like tonjit imo
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Oda created a lovable character just like with Franky, people like Brooke and even if he has decided that Brooke isn't gonna join fans are gonna be disappointed. Vivi was a temporary charater from the start so he didn't build her up in the same way. She didn't bring anything new to the crew ability-wise or personality-wise, neither did she have any interesting "quirks". If she did have all that however fans would be outraged when she left. Brooke has shown all of those in just 2 chapters He's gonna join, it's all a matter of time.
Besides he can't leave now. He officially accepted Luffy's invitation and you cannot leave your pirate crew unless the captain approves!
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and luffy would never approve that now
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no, b/c its not thriller park, its thriller bark/barque
Oh I see! Then if it is Barque, what does Barque mean?
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@Freeman-12:
Oh I see! Then if it is Barque, what does Barque mean?
Barque is a type of sailing ship. It's a 3 masted ship with a foresail. It's slightly larger than a Brigantine like the TS.
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I think it's supposed to be Thriller Park, personally.
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@VL7:
When will people get it, gravity and black holes don't steal shadows, BB has no reason to steal the shadow of a perv skeleton anyway, why would he?
And why would BB be on a ghost island, he has better things to do.The reason of stealing obviously i duno.
but comeon, think of his DF, its DARKNESS, and what is shadow??
DARKNESS.
so maybe getting more shadows will increase his powers…
whahahaa
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@Impel:
I think it's supposed to be Thriller Park, personally.
Barque makes more sense, because it's a moving island. Since Barque is a type of ship… well, there ya go.
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But in the picture you can see roller coasters and ferris wheels, like a theme park, so park makes sense too.
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I'm wondering personally if Brook really will become a permanent crew member. Cool as it would be and all, I'm kind of doubting it. The reason is an element that is subtle, but present all the same. While I may easily be over-thinking this, it seems the crew knows too much about him. If you think about it, the crew has (on-panel at least) not shared a great deal about one another to the rest.
- Nobody knew anything about Luffy's past, if their reactions to his family are any indication.
- Zoro's never told anybody about Kuina, and all scenes involving his past and Tashigi mostly featured Zoro on his own.
- Luffy's the only one who seems to know Usopp's connection to Yasopp and Shanks.
- Luffy is also the only one to have any information on Sanji, due to Sanji's revealing Zeff ate his own leg for Sanji's sake.
- Sanji and Usopp are the only ones know Nami's full past. Luffy knows a bit, due to the final moments of Arlong Park.
- In the anime, Dr. Kureha told Sanji and Nami Chopper's past. However in the manga the flashback occurred while Luffy was mid-punch.
- Robin had her "job interview" upon joining. But through that and Enies Lobby all the crew truly knows is that Robin got her bounty at age 8 and her homeland was destroyed by the Buster Call. None of them know details.
- The Franky Family told the crew Franky was a pirate's son. And they may know a little about Tom (Usopp at least, knows a bit from being present at Franky's arrest).
Here, however, Brook has told the entire crew all about himself. At least everything currently relevant (his being a shadowless skeleton and why). There may be some "yet to be revealed" in his history while alive, but it just feels like he's an arc-only character. Among his main roles being to give exposition on the situations within the Florian Triangle and Thrillerburke.
Well Brook told them actually just three things:
1. The reason for him being a skeleton (his DF's ability)
2. His current issue (the reason why he has no shadow)
3. What he did in the past decades (spending a horrible second life)
In order to join and thus become a permanent main character, he's supposed to have a flashback with black framed panels. And the only thing I could imagine at this point such a flashback to be about is the story of how Brook got his shadow taken away. And I don't know if it's such a big kind of emotional deal to make a flashback sequence about. Er, I mean, because we already know that it doomed him to sail for decades all alone in a sea of darkness. The flashbacks usually tell us something new, right? … and there's usually a mentor character right?
Of course there might be something totally different to tell about Brook's past, or Oda might break his pattern of arc character + flashback = new crew member. It's still hard to tell at this point!!But I liked how you pointed out that the Strawhats really don't know that much about each other most of the time. It's an interesting aspect you're not always aware of.
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You should think of this: What other reasons does Brooke have to stay in Florian Triangle? He made it clear that he is all alone in the dark place and wanted to die at times too, and he is really happy that someone wants to accept him and take him out of here. This pretty much shows he would join them.
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@Impel:
But in the picture you can see roller coasters and ferris wheels, like a theme park, so park makes sense too.
:wassat:
Are we reading the same manga? -
Okay, I looked at it again, and it wasn't a ferris wheel, it was a wheel that appears to be pulling some chains. Also, you can see lots of big chains in the sky, so I think these chains have something to do with the secret of Thriller Barque.
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If Brook isn't actually our villian for this arc, then I'm expecting him to be like Tonjit – a character who is asked to join the crew initially, but who declines and is then helped by the Mugiwara to escape some sort of complication that he alone can't get himself out of ... I have no proof for my theory other than my own "danger radar" (my gut instinct) and the following :
look at the chairs around the dining room table -- they appear to be permanently bolted to the floor and immoveable, right? Notice that there are only 8 of them. If another crew member joined so soon, the balance would be upset : he'd have to sit by himself on the couch or at the bar until Franky could construct a new chair and reconfigure all the others as well as enlongate the table.
ok, goodnight!
I've been relatively certain of brooke joining permanently since noticing the musical notes in his yo ho ho last week. He fits too many mugiwara criteria.
Also, without brooke, we actually have two extra seats at the main table. Franky seems to prefer the bar as it allows him better exhibition of his junk. Sanji never sits during meal times as it would interfere bringing food and serving the ladies. This means that there is room in the kitchen for brooke and another new crewmember to sit at the table, as well as space for 3 more guests to sit at the bar.
I'm actually rather confused about the little ghost as well. Oda has generally avoided any form of magic beyond devil fruits. I'm not sure how he's going to square the ghosts with all of this.
I'm also really hoping he'll have a "Welcome to Thriller, Baka!" sign of some sort to iron out this issue. Dang japanese characters for not distinguishing weird english vowels.
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Oda broke lots of patterns in W7, why not breaking here too?
While we know some stuff about Brooke, nobody said he'll get his title after this arc. I mean, we might get a reason for him to leave the crew somewhere. There comes the flashback.
We might not get any flashback, when what he said at dinner replaced it. Might be another pattern-breaker. -
I'm not really thinking that there are ghosts in One Piece, either… anyone else think that maybe "ghosts" were products a shadow-related Devil Fruit?
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Would the ghost be considered as magic? What's a Klabautermann then? There are several possibilities to explain the current mysteries. At least we can agree upon Thrillerburke/barque being inhabited, probably by a male entity with the ablitiy to steal shadows (although the reason is unknown). Right? If it is this (mini-)arc's "boss", it is most likely to be fought and beaten by Luffy. In conclusion the stealing of the shadows would be the effect of some DF, since Luffy's enemies are most of the time DF users.
If it's not a real ghost, this ghost might also be the effect of some DF. For example one of the shadow snatcher's henchmen's ability. Kind of like Blueno who made Robin "disappear". But I wouldn't actually bet on this theory. We just have to wait and see what's up next time. -
@Book:
Oda created a lovable character just like with Franky, people like Brooke and even if he has decided that Brooke isn't gonna join fans are gonna be disappointed. Vivi was a temporary charater from the start so he didn't build her up in the same way. She didn't bring anything new to the crew ability-wise or personality-wise, neither did she have any interesting "quirks". If she did have all that however fans would be outraged when she left. Brooke has shown all of those in just 2 chapters He's gonna join, it's all a matter of time.
Besides he can't leave now. He officially accepted Luffy's invitation and you cannot leave your pirate crew unless the captain approves!
I disagree!
And I apologize in advance if I'm unintentionally setting up a Vivi flame war in this thread – that's not what I'm trying to do here! ... It's just that it's impossible for me to say "I disagree" without explaining why I disagreed (I'm funny like that).
So here goes :
Vivi was unloveable? Not so. She was the only crew-mate who was instantly loved and trusted by everyone – even Zoro, who sensed something suspicious about her initially (because she was a Baroque Works agent). They all followed her to Alabasta without question. And the Mugiwara weren't her only admirers either -- Dalton admired her both before and after he recognized her as being 'that little princess with the good manners who managed to avoid a war between her country and his').
Vivi had no development? If memory serves me correctly, Vivi had some of the biggest development! She had more backstory than a few of the main characters, and more flashbacks too! We saw her go from being a slightly spoiled, slightly bratty Tomboy to being an expert at diplomacy. (As an aside : I often wonder what she did to get the attention of Baroque Works. Remember, Crocodile chose his companions for their fighting abilities -- and Vivi had a low number among his crew, so this means she must have done something worse than, say, 2Bon, but better than Mr 11 to gain that spot).
She didn't bring anything new to the crew personality-wise? Well , if "personality" is only measured by exterior things like outrageous behavior, skirt-chasing and bad puns, then yes, I guess she didn't -- but let's concentrate on the inward for a minute here, to see how differently her psychologial make-up was from the other crew-members : Vivi is one of the few examples we have in One Piece of extreme positive manipulation -- someone who does everything she can to "get her way" because getting her way will allow her to help others in the process. So what initially may come across as self-centeredness in her is actually other-person-centeredness in the extreme -- by humbling herself, she saves those around her from being involved in a conflict. This sort of manipulation is an excellent quality for a diplomat to possess, and is useful for a pirate crew too, as shown by no less of a pirate than Shanks (who employed the same strategy against the Mountain Bandits at the beginning of the story, to save Luffy and Makino from them). This is not the same way that Nami, Usopp or Sanji use humbleness, and, of course, "humbleness" is an alien concept to Luffy and Zoro. ;)
Ok, that's enough of Vivi -- time to get back to the true subject of this reply : Brook.
I disagree that Brook is already bound to the Mugiwara. In 442, he says "I'd love to" to Luffy's request, but he doesn't say "yes, I will join" -- "I'd love to" sounds to me more like he's more in love with the idea of joining than with the actual act of joining.
My take on that phrase is that he just wants food and companionship desperately – look how quickly he abandons the crew after he's had both, and look especially at how quickly he abandons the crew after it's obvious that they've become trapped by Thriller island. His abandonment also coincides with the discovery of his vampiric qualities and the questioning of his motives. So perhaps he was ready to join them until he realized that they were catching on too quickly to something (either good or bad) that he didn't want them to know about ... And if that isn't enough to bring doubt to your mind about his permanence as a crew member, what about his own words (thanks to Stephen, as always, for the translation) :
"And you invited me to join your number!!
What a wonderful delight. Thank you so much.
But I'm afraid I must decline."So even if "I'd love to" was a proper acceptance without any hesitation, we now have a proper refusal of that acceptance. Luffy's response sounds less like a Captain's Order than like a plea. If Luffy was convinced that Brook had already joining, then wouldn't he have resonded with something like "Too late! You're already on my crew and nobody can leave until I say so!"
Now it could be that Brook's reasons for not joining the crew are benevolent (sort of like Vivi's reasons -- D'oh!) and that he's trying to save the crew from some danger/complication that his presence would otherwise bring about. But I'm not at a point yet where I can believe that theory (though I may be soon, if we see evidence in the next few chapters).
Please don't misunderstand me : I don't hate Brook, and I'd eventually accept him as a new crew member (as I did with Franky). It's just that I think it's a bit premature to assume he's here to stay. First impressions about new-crew members are often correct, but Oda's shown us time and again (with Vivi, Paulie, etc) that people who seem "destined" to join are often left behind -- regardless of the disappointment it causes for large portions of the fandom. If Brook doesn't join, the world won't end. Just ask the Vivi and Paulie fans who are still reading "One Piece" long after their favorite characters were left behind ...
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Not to interject, but even though the crew loved Vivi a great deal the fanbase, aside from those who had a ViviX____ thing, ranged from ambivalent to hateful. She was not a fanloved character in the same way that Brooke is because in the end she wasn't SH material. I know that I personally heaved a sigh of relief when she didn't join at the end of Alabasta.
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Well, the whole 4Shame "no emotion in the voice" thing kinda killed her off.
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I can agree with your assessment, dinty, but I think that Brook is less likely to be a villain than a "Vivi-esque" character. He tells Luffy that he is kind for offering to help, but intones that 'that man (otoko)' is too dangerous. Then, when he sees that Thriller Bar(k/que) is finally within reach, and that he will have an opportunity to confront 'that man', he tells the Strawhats to find some way to open the gate and escape while he literally runs off alone to the island. This seems similar in concept to what Nami did at Cocoyashi before Arlong's betrayal: State that this is a personal problem, that it is a dangerous situation, and that out of consideration for the safety of others they'd rather go it alone.
I'm not certain if Brook will join after this arc. But then, Luffy hasn't shown this much eagerness to have someone in his crew since Sanji. Wait, with Sanji he was insistent until Zeff asked him to take Sanji along. Luffy has all but begged on bended knee for Brook.
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I think that Brooke is going to be a full-fledged mugiwara.
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Not to interject, but even though the crew loved Vivi a great deal the fanbase, aside from those who had a ViviX____ thing, ranged from ambivalent to hateful. She was not a fanloved character in the same way that Brooke is because in the end she wasn't SH material. I know that I personally heaved a sigh of relief when she didn't join at the end of Alabasta.
Interjection is fine. I'm here to discuss One Piece, not to preach it. :)
I'd agree that there seems to be a strong anti-Vivi vibe in AP, but if you look at the poll results from Japan, like for instance on this thread :http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=7663&highlight=popularity+poll
… you'll see that even several arcs after Alabasta, when we were in the throes of Water7 and had encountered so many new and interesting characters in between, Vivi still managed to place higher on popularity polls than Ao Kiji, Tashigi, Paulie, Jyabura, and Iceburg. 527 is a respectable number of fans for this sort of poll. Especially for a character who'd been inactive in the story for something like 3 years.
We have no idea what Brook's fanbase is at the moment. We've seen a lot of people on AP shouting "BEST DUDE EVA!" and so on, but how much of that is newness hysteria (people tend to gravitate towards novelty and currency without intending to) and how much of that is actual fondness for the character. Only time will tell. And in three years it will be interesting to see where Brook places on the popularity polls. Will his fans have moved on to the next new thing, or will they stay with him?
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I'll stay. He's still officially my second-favorite charecter. And if he was black when he died, then he might beat Sanji for my favorite.
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@Impel:
I'll stay. He's still officially my second-favorite charecter. And if he was black when he died, then he might beat Sanji for my favorite.
Not trying to sound racist, but why would Brooke being black make him more likable to you? He'd still have the same personality, no?
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Why did Vivi get involved in this disscussion anyway?
Btw, would it be possible that the guy he saw melt before his eyes was actually Ace showing of his power(I'm bassiacally just tryng to beat the BB stole the shadow theory in unlikelyness)
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Yeah but character popularity polls mean little, as it doesn't measure the want of a character to actually join. I mean, Kaku and Lucci both scored rather high and yet there wasn't a huge impetus to get them to join aside froma few good natured nutjobs. I mean the villian scores high on the popularity polls, what does that mean?
I mean everyone knew that Tonjit wasn't going to join because he was a scrub. Vivi likewise was a bit scrubbish and had no place. Brooke is not only unique and fills a long awaited post he is not a weak character, he is made of Anti-scrub so to speak. Now personally I was fooled in Franky v. Pauly, at least until Enies Lobby, but that being said I don't think that such a massive and complete telegraph can be faked.
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@Janken:
Not trying to sound racist, but why would Brooke being black make him more likable to you? He'd still have the same personality, no?
I guess Impel is black or really likes black people (which I highly approve).
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Hmm, That's odd – somehow your post jumped backwards Meh! Impel's post was there before yours for several minutes, but instead of appearing below it, yours appeared abovve it ...
GHOSTS!!!
@_Meh_:
I can agree with your assessment, dinty, but I think that Brook is less likely to be a villain than a "Vivi-esque" character. He tells Luffy that he is kind for offering to help, but intones that 'that man (otoko)' is too dangerous. Then, when he sees that Thriller Bar(k/que) is finally within reach, and that he will have an opportunity to confront 'that man', he tells the Strawhats to find some way to open the gate and escape while he literally runs off alone to the island. This seems similar in concept to what Nami did at Cocoyashi before Arlong's betrayal: State that this is a personal problem, that it is a dangerous situation, and that out of consideration for the safety of others they'd rather go it alone.
I'm not certain if Brook will join after this arc. But then, Luffy hasn't shown this much eagerness to have someone in his crew since Sanji. Wait, with Sanji he was insistent until Zeff asked him to take Sanji along. Luffy has all but begged on bended knee for Brook.
Yes, good point. I'd forgotten about how Nami did that initially – I was instead thinking of the moment when it all caved in and she begged Luffy to help her. But you're right -- Brook could be trying to steer them away from trouble by attempting to confront "that man" by himself. This would give him the sort of bravey/self-sufficiency that the Mugiwara have (or in some cases aspire to having).
Another possibility I've strongly considered is that Brook is a "Mr Tumnus" sort of character -- someone who is essentially kind hearted, but who is forced to do evil deeds by some overpowering influence becuase of threats or blackmail or some other unpleasant form of persuasion. A Tumnus scenario might help to explain what "delivering Bink's booze" is about (it could be some sort of euphemism for "bringing the intruders within the gates of Thriller Island so that the big bad guy can toy with them and challenge them"). Brook shows some of the same traits as Tumnus : the excessive politeness as well as the nervousness and jitters. And this could be what's setting off Zoro's and Robin's suspicions as well.
Oh, for those who've never read C. S. Lewis :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumnus -
I guess Impel is black or really likes black people (which I highly approve).
I hope Brooke is really black because i want a black crewmember for Luffy's crew black people are cool :)
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Oh I ment to say this before, but I might as well say it now.
I imagine Brook with a Japanese Pegasus (From Yugioh) voice. I dunno, it just fits to me.
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Now it could be that Brook's reasons for not joining the crew are benevolent (sort of like Vivi's reasons – D'oh!) and that he's trying to save the crew from some danger/complication that his presence would otherwise bring about. But I'm not at a point yet where I can believe that theory (though I may be soon, if we see evidence in the next few chapters).
Hmm, I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Brooke explicitly told the crew why he can't join. If Luffy just solves his problem he can join. Brooke's reason for not joinign is simply because he can't. Intense sun light will kill him and therefore he is afraid of leaving the fog.
Quated from stephen:
Brook: As I told you earlier, my shadow was stolen.
I cannot live underneath the naked sun! This evil sea of mist both traps and protects me.
If I were to leave this sea with you,
t'would only be a matter of time before my body disintegrated.
I must stay here and wait for the miraculous day
that I can retrieve my shadow!! Yohohoho! -
hopefully luffy will use gear 4 on the idiot who stole brooke shadow…
gear 4? i meant gear 5
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No, I don't want him to break out Gear 4/5 for a while. I want him to beat that shadow jerk with a good 'ol fashioned Gomu Gomu no….BAZOOOOOOKA!
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^ it was a joke
gear 4/5 will be the tecnique that will send BB to hell
waiting patiently for a fusion of gear 2 and gear 3
edit: i forgot. luffy never kill somebody. the tecnique that will send BB to impel down.
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Has anyone considered (haven't read through the whole discussion, but didn't see it mentioned recently) that Blackbeard may be the "shadow stealer"? Conceptually, we don't know the full extent of his powers, and it would mesh well with Brook thinking he was too powerful an enemy, as well as providing a nice segue into the Blackbeard fight that also secures Brook as a mugiwara.
Just some random speculation on my part.
(First post, btw >.>)
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Yes, people have said that already. But it got shot down pretty much.
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It's too soon for Blackbeard. TOO SOON! Or at least too soon for a full-on "Mugiwaras vs. Kurohiges" fight, anyway.
But I'm with the fanboys on this one: I hope Brook is permanent. A perverted skeleton who makes bad puns and plays the violin? F**k yeah. -
I bet that if Brook joins, we find out he's a terrible musician.
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I'll bet that if, and he will, Brooke joins, he will be the greatest musician in the history of life itself. He will make Bohemian Rhypsody sound like fingers on a chalkboard. He will make Hendrix sound like William Hung being stabbed. He will cause me to collapse on my knees and cry as a beacon of light pours down upon me and fills me with such spirit that I no longer require breathing or thought, and I just drown in the beauty of the music. Feel free to quote me on that.
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Why are people still unable to accept that there are ghosts in OP?
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Another possibility I've strongly considered is that Brook is a "Mr Tumnus" sort of character – someone who is essentially kind hearted, but who is forced to do evil deeds by some overpowering influence becuase of threats or blackmail or some other unpleasant form of persuasion. A Tumnus scenario might help to explain what "delivering Bink's booze" is about (it could be some sort of euphemism for "bringing the intruders within the gates of Thriller Island so that the big bad guy can toy with them and challenge them"). Brook shows some of the same traits as Tumnus : the excessive politeness as well as the nervousness and jitters. And this could be what's setting off Zoro's and Robin's suspicions as well.
Wasn't Brook's reaction upon seeing Thrillerburke ("finally my heart's desire comes true") indicating, that he hasn't seen the island for almost as long as he hasn't seen other humans? He was quite surprised, and he also asked about the barrel meaning he wasn't sure about the observation. Apparently Brook and the barrel/observation have no connection. Brook acting on orders of a badguy might be unlikely. But that doesn't explain his "bring Bink's booze"…
Robin seemed rather bored than suspicious though. Only when she heard "my shadow has been stolen by a man" she got interested. Just like Sanji knew the story of "Norland the liar", Robin might know the story of "the man who steals shadows". -
Like she knew about the Rainbow Mist?
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Thriller Park…Arlong Park...
see?
their similar!
So I think merman might be in Thriller Park! -
Wait, what if we're all wrong? What if it's not Bark, Barque, or Burg? Maybe it's ThrillerBach? That Gothic mansion set dead center of the page puts me in mind of 'Toccata in D Minor'.
EDIT: Since people who have their shadow stolen burn to ash in the sun, would this serve to explain why all of those ships passing through the triangle showed up empty later? If so, That Man is seriously eevill.:blink:
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Honestly, it looks more like a Cathedral to me, and the Mansion is where the chains of the gate lead up to….