Is Yasopp a sniper? He's always struck me as a gunman. A very accurate gunman, but a gunman.
The Hatchets that Would Not Be Buried: USOPP TALK. (Spoiler Warning)
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Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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Edit: Actually, come to think of it…would the Usopp/Luffy resolution involve the new ship in some way. I mean, it all started when the Merry was "dying," so what will Usopp do when there's a new ship? Yeah, they should all be tied in somehow.
I would hope that the ship, Franky joining, and Usopp reuniting would all be tied together. It only makes perfect sense.
Is Yasopp a sniper? He's always struck me as a gunman. A very accurate gunman, but a gunman.
Snipers are gunmen, it's just a particular kind of gunning. The official position on a ship is called "gunner". The generally man the cannons. Luffy told Usopp that he was the ships gunner/sharpshooter. This can include sniping, but doesn't mean only sniping. Some gunmen might think sniping is below them and only fight face to face, but I don't imagine many pirates do. But if you think about it, if you aren't interested in sniping, why be so good at shooting accurately with long-distance? You don't need that kind of accuracy if you're only going to fight face-to-face.
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I said sniper because people know snipers can shoot things that are miles away. I just felt if i said gunman people would under estimate his skill because i'm sure he can shoot something miles away.
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facepalms
Alright, obviously this has gone nowhere since the first post. There's no point in arguing when you've already made up your mind about everything and refuse to see it any other way. If all you want to do is just rant and vent anger, you should have said so from the beginning.
Why couldn't it be the other way around and maybe, just maybe, you guys are the ones who refuse to acknowledge this glaring 'mistake' by Oda? Why is it that whenever we are asking for stuff regarding how Usopp "developed" his character in that arc, and the arguments get heated up and it seems that the main selling point of your defense would be "you're just not getting it", you dismiss what we present as 'just a rant'?
It's not venting anger, we're presenting points as to why we think that particular arc failed. Up until now, nothing has ever convinced me that "everything was worth it" for Usopp in that particular arc. Logic dictates that he should have accomplished or at least, TRIED TO accomplish something rather big in that chapter. Sniping the flag just does not cut it out for me or for Aldrich and I think it's just not nitpicking. Compared to kicking a CP9's ass, it's nothing.
The main argument is regarding why Usopp did not get a fight in this arc when it could have helped develop his character, even moreso than Sanji or Nami. All we're getting from you and Oda is, "well, Usopp can't fight like that/can't do that." And you guys are satisfied with that answer. We're not.
So, we try to acknowledge your point. Granting, Usopp did not get a fight, what particular feat did he accomplish in this arc with regard to how he was presented in the first half of the arc?
-He sniped Spandam.
-he burned the flag.
-he gave a motivational speech to Luffy.
-he "instigated" the fight for the giants.Earlier, his main dilemma was that he felt that he was a burden to the team. So, you'd have to show in the end that he wasn't. Tell me, those 3 events I listed above, did it drive home the point that "he's not useless to the team"? You have to ask yourself, "Would the author be able to let the strawhats win even if he(Usopp) wasn't around? Did he play a big factor in the win for the strawhats?"
He was part of reason why they won. But the others' achievements overshadow his greatly. I fail to see how you can honestly say, "Usopp was one of the main focuses of the latter half of the EL arc, as he was in the first half of it" when clearly, it's not. That's what we're calling half-assed writing on Oda's part in this particular arc. I don't get why any of us who have this view are automatically "wrong" or "fail to see something Oda wants to present" when basically, your argument for the matter all boils down to "Usopp can't fight for shit since he's a sniper and once he realizes he can be a good sniper, he will focus on it and be a great sea-warrior", which is very anti-climactic to how he was presented in this arc beforehand.
by ultimateclima:
Nami's fight was only bareable because of the super special awesome fanservice. Looking at that fight from a strictly fighting sense, she was totally out of it.
So, Oda decides that Nami should win that fight out of fanservice and Usopp should lose just cause he wants to handle Usopp's transformation in a very good manner and it's "unrealistic" for a fighter of Usopp's calibre to defeat a CP9?
by dlo:
Well lets be real for a second. Nami's weapon would do alot of damage to alot of people. She can cause lighting to fall on somebody's head many numerous times. Not to many people can survive that. She can control the weather with her weapon. She can be real loot if Oda wanted her to be.
Ussop is not a fighter. He is a shooter. His skill is shooting. He can take alot of damage and he can shoot straight and is a good inventor. He is not physical. People just need to accept that.
Yep, he's a shooter, alrght. But as you said, let's be real for a second.
This is fiction. Nami can control the weather here. You can't do that IRL. For all intents and purposes, almost every special attack presented in this manga is impossible IRL and any talk of logic, or any logical discussion as to how "Usopp can't do this or that" is moot point because we're only saying it since he's portrayed that way (ie; a wuss/sniper). We are baffled beyond belief because suddenly, in this chapter, the author decides to give a flaming leg to Sanji, a new shit for Zoro, gears for Luffy, monster form for chopper, and the ability to control lightning for Nami and were shown to be successful in using these new attacks and yet Usopp get to showcase his new shit effectively against an opponent who actually moves and fights back. What is so hard to understand with this? Any question regarding "would you want to give Usopp a cheap powerup?" is moot point because the author has proven that he can give a character that sort of powerup whenever he wants, even if it's uncalled for (ie: Nami). In our opinion, Usopp needed one…badly. We're looking for a logical reason why Usopp was given none.(or wasn't emphasized in this chapter, when clearly, every one else's was.)
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Just give usopp some time there has to be a reason for all of this. We've seen black beard's sniper he seems strong and we know yassop is the best sniper. So maybe when usopp meets another really good sniper he will have the will power to want to beat him.
Jesus H. Christ…we're discussing why Usopp did not get a 'powerup'/development in the EL/W7 arc and NOT anything beyond it. Of course Usopp needs to do better the next arcs if he wants to be "brave sea warrior".
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Jesus H. Christ…we're discussing why Usopp did not get a 'powerup'/development in the EL/W7 arc and NOT anything beyond it. Of course Usopp needs to do better the next arcs if he wants to be "brave sea warrior".
I know exactly what your talking about and suggesting his powerup will come when sniping is the crucial factor, when only he will be able to accomplish the goal. When this happens he will need to brave and use a powerful move which will end up being his power up.
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I know exactly what your talking about and suggesting his powerup will come when sniping is the crucial factor, when only he will be able to accomplish the goal. When this happens he will need to brave and use a powerful move which will end up being his power up.
Okay, you are correct. This can be done or "resolved' by introducing a "sniper fight" for Usopp. But we're talking about the EL arc and it would go back to the question as to "what's the point of trashing Usopp left and right?" in the first half of that arc.
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Okay, you are correct. This can be done or "resolved' by introducing a "sniper fight" for Usopp. But we're talking about the EL arc and it would go back to the question as to "what's the point of trashing Usopp left and right?" in the first half of that arc.
whoaa chill out didn't mean to start a war, as you lot said usopp received hardly anything at enies lobby so i didn't think contributing to that would help. So i decided to say when i thought he would get some development and getting some competition from a fellow sniper would definitely make him want to improve.
I
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whoaa chill out didn't mean to start a war, as you lot said usopp received hardly anything at enies lobby so i didn't think contributing to that would help. So i decided to say when i thought he would get some development and getting some competition from a fellow sniper would definitely make him want to improve.
Eh? I'm not pissed at your or anybody in the forum over this. I'm just posting my thoughts on the subject.
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Eh? I'm not pissed at your or anybody in the forum over this. I'm just posting my thoughts on the subject.
That's Cool. I'm just used to people getting angry because they think their opinion is law
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Okay, sorry I didn't read every single page of the discussion, but I'm pretty sure I've got the gist of what everything's about.
Many seem to dislike Usopp's "lack of character development" throughout Enies Lobby. He had his little moments, but no real fight, the proving grounds of a shonen story.
The thing is, I feel that adds some more realism to the story. Everyone seemed to get some sort of new powering-up ability in Enies Lobby, except Usopp (except he got a badass sniping Kabuto staff, but still) - Luffy's Gears, Zoro's Asura, Sanji's flaming leg, etc, etc. But Usopp seeming "left behind" by the other characters has been somewhat of a recurring theme throughout the story. All of the other Straw Hats are advancing so much in strength, yet he seems not to be growing that much at all.
Usopp had his fight with Luffy over the fate of Merry, and it turned out Usopp was beaten and wrong. More beatdown on Usopp. Because of all these hits he was taking, many thought that he would get some uber-fantastic-ultimate-battle-victory in Enies Lobby that would ultimately redeem him. I, however, feel this would be somewhat cliche.
You see, in real life, issues don't get resolved all neatly in a day. I think this angle of Usopp feeling "left behind" will pursue throughout the story and spill out into future events. That way, when Usopp finally does emerge as a truly brave warrior of the sea, his dream, it makes his achievement all that more remarkable. It makes Usopp more interesting as a character. He's always been quite stand-out. One can argue that it's not fair, that all the other characters are getting more powerful and Usopp is grown stale, but they have their own dreams. They have their own issues that they are dealing with. Usopp's issue is belonging in the crew, feeling a sense of purpose. If Usopp had all sorts of battles where he pulled out amazing wins with great power, at the end of the story, no one would care that he became a brave warrior of the sea. Who needs bravery when you've got a ridiculous amount of strength? Oda knows exactly what he's doing with Usopp - Usopp goes against the grain of the shonen character archetype. Just be patient and alllow Usopp's story to unfold.
I hope that made sense and wasn't just a bunch of fan gobbledy-gook :P
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@mumbo230:
Okay, sorry I didn't read every single page of the discussion, but I'm pretty sure I've got the gist of what everything's about.
I think Fanservice summarized the main problem very well for the Ussop "bitching" as the case maybe. He makes very good points without Aldrich's (hilarious) snarkiness or Terek's verbosity. Which turn people off even though they do make valid points.
The main argument is regarding why Usopp did not get a fight in this arc when it could have helped develop his character, even moreso than Sanji or Nami. All we're getting from you and Oda is, "well, Usopp can't fight like that/can't do that." And you guys are satisfied with that answer. We're not.
So, we try to acknowledge your point. Granting, Usopp did not get a fight, what particular feat did he accomplish in this arc with regard to how he was presented in the first half of the arc?
-He sniped Spandam.
-he burned the flag.
-he gave a motivational speech to Luffy.
-he "instigated" the fight for the giants.Earlier, his main dilemma was that he felt that he was a burden to the team. So, you'd have to show in the end that he wasn't. Tell me, those 3 events I listed above, did it drive home the point that "he's not useless to the team"? You have to ask yourself, "Would the author be able to let the strawhats win even if he(Usopp) wasn't around? Did he play a big factor in the win for the strawhats?"
He was part of reason why they won. But the others' achievements overshadow his greatly. I fail to see how you can honestly say, "Usopp was one of the main focuses of the latter half of the EL arc, as he was in the first half of it" when clearly, it's not. That's what we're calling half-assed writing on Oda's part in this particular arc. I don't get why any of us who have this view are automatically "wrong" or "fail to see something Oda wants to present" when basically, your argument for the matter all boils down to "Usopp can't fight for shit since he's a sniper and once he realizes he can be a good sniper, he will focus on it and be a great sea-warrior", which is very anti-climactic to how he was presented in this arc beforehand.
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I think the most important disctinction here is, what would have done more to ignite Usopp's confidence as a member of the crew? A single Big Win over an Uberponent? Or a series of smaller events that contributed to the final outcome in their own way.
I'm personally inclined to feel the latter. Anyone in the crew might've managed a Big Win (and, in fact, the rest of them did, including Nami, his closest equal in terms of battle prowess). But not one other member of the crew could achieved most of Usopp's other achievements.
The giants: Arguably, the others could've done this. But Usopp was best suited in story terms for this because of his particular connection to Dorry and Brogy.
The flag: A major event and turning point in terms of getting Robin back to their side. In theory, most of th crew might've been able to somehow get the flag from where they were, but none with Usopp's pinpoint accuracy.
The speech to Luffy: Okay, here I thikn is the most minor event. Again, it could've been anybody at this point (robin's a good candidate).
Sniping Spandam: He didn't stop at Spandam. He at that same time delievered the remaining CP9 keys to Franky and Robin (which was good as one of them (Jyabura's if I remember correctly) was the one that freed her), and covered Franky while he took off Robin's cuffs (there was really no way to do that without exposing themselves (either Franky's back or Robin's front)). Usopp bought them the time they needed to achieve that goal safely.In the end, even without a fight. Usopp contributed to the victory at Enies Lobby in a way that the others more likely than not couldn't have done. Does this mean he's only a sniper and not a warrior? No. Because it wasn't JUST his sniping skills that won the day (though obviously they were important). He can still develop as a warrior. But this arc has allowed Usopp to clear a mental hurdle to a point. He knows he isn't worthless anymore (or he should at any rate). Even if he's not a tough fighter now, an dmay never be (who knows save Oda?) he still has ways to fight and be useful. Either directly or indirectly.
Of course that's all just my opinion. I could be wrong.
EDIT
New Thought I'm Not Sure I Can Word Correctly But I Think You'll Get The Idea
Has anybody considered "contrast" as a reason for Usopp's losing his fights this arc? Every Straw-Hat save Usopp got a Big Fight, but were it not for Usopp, those efforts would have gone to nothing (as the key needed to save Robin wouldn't have gotten to her in time). Also, his sniping at the Bridge of Hesitation gave Franky time to recover from Spandam's mines and get to Robin yet again. Without that stall she'd have been taken. Basically, it was what Usopp could do BESIDES fighting that saved the day (again, what he could do in relation to what everyone else could). this fact is made more noticable by the fact that he failed to fight and win. Usopp's failure to fight was done as deliberate contrast by Oda to the rest of hte crew, to make the things he DID do stand out more. -
^ btw, didn't Usopp also shoot a bunch of marines out of the way after Spandam? He was hitting many with accuracy but nobody down there was able to each reach him at that distance.
Why couldn't it be the other way around and maybe, just maybe, you guys are the ones who refuse to acknowledge this glaring 'mistake' by Oda?
Why is it that whenever we are asking for stuff regarding how Usopp "developed" his character in that arc, and the arguments get heated up and it seems that the main selling point of your defense would be "you're just not getting it", you dismiss what we present as 'just a rant'?The other way around? I'm not accusing you of being the culprit. I've been constantly trying to understand your point of view, and I've agreed to some things you've said, and acknowledged some of your points to be correct, and that Oda made a few different mistakes. I've never flamed you, I've answered your posts with a lot of thought and at times a lot of length. You're the one that said "we're not getting it". (I like how you talk like Gollum like that) :/ With your response here, it's hard not to get the impression that you really don't even read the posts I type or just dismissing them entirely (even though you say "we try to acknowledge your point". Yoda says there is no try), putting everyone on the defensive contanstly. It's a tiresome and unpleasant way to have a discussion and frankly with two jobs and schoolwork, I don't need to be spending this much time on someone who doesn't really give a shit anyway.
I'm suggesting that we've both got opposing views and they probably aren't going to change just by arguing here. (Kind of like how Usopp and Luffy's argument wasn't ever going to get anywhere by just arguing either. 'Cept we ain't gonna duel)
It's ok to think differently. I coexist with someone on the opposite ends of the political spectrum, compared to that a little manga story arc is nothing. So far nothing you've said has made me change my mind about this arc being my favorite or made me think that Oda screwed up majorly. Face it, it's just an opinion and we're both stubborn.The main argument is regarding why Usopp did not get a fight in this arc when it could have helped develop his character, even moreso than Sanji or Nami. All we're getting from you and Oda is, "well, Usopp can't fight like that/can't do that." And you guys are satisfied with that answer. We're not.
See, this is what I mean, a reitteration of the same obvious thing over and over again.
The answer. Tough noogies! Go and be unsatisfied, I'll go be satisfied. Nobody here is going to make you satisfied no matter what they say. Try Snickers. Or just wait and see what happens in the story.He was part of reason why they won. But the others' achievements overshadow his greatly. I fail to see how you can honestly say, "Usopp was one of the main focuses of the latter half of the EL arc, as he was in the first half of it" when clearly, it's not. That's what we're calling half-assed writing on Oda's part in this particular arc.
I already have said, that I agree that he could have made the payoff better. To me it's perhaps a minor flub (although I'm not convinced of that either), to you it's a major disaster. Such things are always relative to the individual. Maybe I just don't take this story as seriously as you do. I just read it for enjoyment, for which it never disappoints.
I don't get why any of us who have this view are automatically "wrong" or "fail to see something Oda wants to present"
I never said you were wrong. ;) Do you think I'm wrong?
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Rant upcoming…I just need to get my thoughts together. Before that I just have a question.
Is it any coincidence that the almost every major fight scene in OP requires how many chapters before finally ending? When you read a particular comic book whose particular emphasis is fighting and adventure, what comes into your mind first?
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Well, I personally think that whether or not Usopp was "more important" then any of the other SHs in this arc is beside the point, as long as he was just useful. Cause frankly, if you weight all the accomplishment be the SHs in this arc, they all become useless without each other–either they all die or lose Robin. After all, they are a "crew."
However, I ultimately think that the pay off for this arc and Usopp is coming...later in the arc. Despite the immense length of the arc and the fact that we're out of Enies Lobby, it's still not over is it? Hell, it's starting to look like we may have a volume left. After all, Usopp not getting a fight for Enies Lobby would be a great balance if Usopp did something cool after rejoining the crew...if that's how it happens.
Plus, I think that part of the reason that Usop didn't get his winning fight in Enies Lobby was cause he wasn't part of the crew at the time. So...Usopp lacked the DEM that all the other SHs had in this arc.
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WAIZE FWOM YOUW GWAVE
So, now that the WG saga is ending and that the Usopp situation is cleared, what is your opinion about the whole stuff? We finally have all the elements to judge.
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In your topic, trollin' up your fans.
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So, WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, USOPP FANS?! Bwahahahah.
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He just rejoined the crew, actually
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A bit off-topic here, but whatever:
Chopper's really pretty close to the likes of Sanji and Zoro, he just had low confidence at the time, and frankly he looks up to his crew mates since he's the youngest. It's not an establishment of tiers.
If Chopper really was close to Sanji and Zoro, shouldn't he have helped block the cannon balls in the latest chapter like the newly acquired Franky did?
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So, now that the WG saga is ending and that the Usopp situation is cleared, what is your opinion about the whole stuff? We finally have all the elements to judge.
As of right now, I'm completely satisfied with how the situation was handled. Probably more so than the Arlong Park arc, this arc reestablishes the crew and reaffirms the 'team' aspect that makes this pirate crew so different than any other one we've seen. I think, however, that Usopp had some prior issues that still need to be resolved. He can't think of himself as 'useless' anymore, since that's the attitude that needs to change (or else he's actually going to become dead weight to the crew) nor can he, as Zoro said in this latest chapter, continue to act like this is some sort of a game. Part of his comic appeal early on was the 'Super Captain Ussop', but he learned through this arc that he needs to drop that mindset fast and respect the Captain's decision, no matter how simple Luffy is.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
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but he learned through this arc that he needs to drop that mindset fast and respect the Captain's decision, no matter how simple Luffy is.
It was sorta like Usopp's own 'Mihawk' I guess.
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I really liked the way he rejoined the crew, like I said in the chapter thread, it's kind of what I surmised from a long time ago. The one thing I didn't want to happen was just a redux of how he joined in the beginning. But it was clearly not like that, we had Zoro making it clear that he didn't deserve a place on the ship without making amends for his rebellious attitude. And he did. Usopp's always had a problem with his pride. I remember arguing with another Usopp fan about this a long time ago, saying that Usopp's real enemy to defeat here was his pride, since that was basically the cause of all the problems to begin with. Some people say that it could have been done better, but, how? Did we really want a really long, drawn out emo thing going on here? I never did want Usopp to do something cool to "earn" his way back into the crew. Becaues that would have just proven Usopp's decision to leave right in the first place.
He will do something cool now that he's back in the crew. Hopefull with the cannon power of Franky's new ship.
In your topic, trollin' up your fans.
So, WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, USOPP FANS?! Bwahahahah.
I'm right here.
waves up to real God It's a joke! A joke!
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As of right now, I'm completely satisfied with how the situation was handled. Probably more so than the Arlong Park arc, this arc reestablishes the crew and reaffirms the 'team' aspect that makes this pirate crew so different than any other one we've seen. I think, however, that Usopp had some prior issues that still need to be resolved. He can't think of himself as 'useless' anymore, since that's the attitude that needs to change (or else he's actually going to become dead weight to the crew) nor can he, as Zoro said in this latest chapter, continue to act like this is some sort of a game. Part of his comic appeal early on was the 'Super Captain Ussop', but he learned through this arc that he needs to drop that mindset fast and respect the Captain's decision, no matter how simple Luffy is.
So, basically you're satisfied because this arc "reaffirms the team aspect", that Usopp can't feel like he's useless anymore, and that he must stop considering piracy as a game?
Despite the fact the "team aspect" has been a staple of the series, in pure shonen fashion, since the very beginning, that the events of W7 actually confirmed Usopp's fears of being useless, and finally that the fact he considers this adventure as a game hasn't been tackled at all since he only apologized once he realised his pathetic tricks and lies would'nt fly and that he would be left behind like a used rag if he didn't tell his friends what they wanted to hear?
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Wow.
I really liked the way he rejoined the crew,
Now that's a surprise.
And he did.
After first acting like a fucking moron and seeing it didn't work, being more or less forced to do it. If you do something forcefully, what's the value? What did he learn? He acted out of fear, as usual. He didn't grow one bit.
Usopp's always had a problem with his pride. I remember arguing with another Usopp fan about this a long time ago, saying that Usopp's real enemy to defeat here was his pride, since that was basically the cause of all the problems to begin with.
Yeah, heaven forbids that the last thing that made him look remotely like a man didn't get thrown out of the window in that chapter, it was such a burden to his character! Who needs pride anyway when you can crawl through life by prostrating yourself and begging?
Some people say that it could have been done better, but, how? Did we really want a really long, drawn out emo thing going on here?
Him meeting the crew, without waiting for the last second to move, advancing towards Luffy, saying "I was wrong, I'm sorry, can I come back?" with a stern face, before bursting in tears if you like once he's been accepted back. But of course it wouldn't have been downright degrading, not good enough.
I never did want Usopp to do something cool
Oh ok, now I understand why you'd be satisfied with his development in this saga.
Becaues that would have just proven Usopp's decision to leave right in the first place.
It was partly right, it was justified, but now it indeed looks like he was wrong all along and all that fiasco smells of uselessness and gratuitous humiliation. As I predicted.
He will do something cool now that he's back in the crew. Hopefull with the cannon power of Franky's new ship
If he can't even do something worthwhile with the high quality cannons Franky gave to the ship he should just swallow a set of razor blades and die right away, even him is not this useless.
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So, basically you're satisfied because this arc "reaffirms the team aspect", that Usopp can't feel like he's useless anymore, and that he must stop considering piracy as a game?
Pretty much. I'm satisfied that Usopp was able to swollow his pride and do what was right. I don't think he was just saying "what they wanted to hear" as if he still thought he was right, as an easy way out. He knew all along that's what the right thing to do was. It was really amazing that he did that, hence the incredibly shocked facial expressions from the crew. It's an epiphany for him.
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I'll bet Usopp does something cool next chapter. I got a good feeling about it this time..
However, I think the emotions for the latest (438) chapter are a little high. Usopp has…not even gotten back on the ship yet.
But yeah, I'm satified. Usopp's back on the crew. That works. After all these god damned semantics, I forget what we even wanted from Usopp.
-Something cool? Luffy vs. Usopp.
-Useful? Sniping scene. He has longer range then guns and rifles.
-Did he learn his lesson? I think so. We won't know for a few chapters. That's how these weekly series works--we gotta wait. But his apology was legit. Luffy can recognise these kinds of things.-The future? I've said it before: kickass. Now all Usopp can do on the ship is fire cannons. With his accuracy, how can that not be awesome? After that, it's just his one-on-one game that needs work.
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Pretty much. I'm satisfied that Usopp was able to swollow his pride and do what was right. I don't think he was just saying "what they wanted to hear" as if he still thought he was right, as an easy way out. He knew all along that's what the right thing to do was. It was really amazing that he did that, hence the incredibly shocked facial expressions from the crew. It's an epiphany for him.
You know… I wasn't so sure at first, but now I really think you have sadistic tendencies. You just enjoy seeing a man being completely and utterly emasculated and turned into a harmless, shivering pile of crap. You devilish woman.
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You know… I wasn't so sure at first, but now I really think you have sadistic tendencies. You just enjoy seeing a man being completely and utterly emasculated and turned into a harmless, shivering pile of crap. You devilish woman.
lol…
One never knows, do one? :devil:
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facepalms
Alright, obviously this has gone nowhere since the first post.
I would like to give you an award of
OFFICIAL AWESOMENTOR
for this little tid-bit. If it weren't for that I would have read this entire thread and gone sideways. Reading from that post, I still agree with what you said as it applies to what came after.
I really have more important things to do, like vacuuming under the couch and organizing my library.
ONE PIECE…. It tames the savage geek.
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I would like to give you an award of
OFFICIAL AWESOMENTOR
for this little tid-bit. If it weren't for that I would have read this entire thread and gone sideways. Reading from that post, I still agree with what you said as it applies to what came after.
I really have more important things to do, like vacuuming under the couch and organizing my library.
I'm glad I saved you the trouble.
Don't want you losing all that time when you've got comics to ink -
Let me begin by saying Usopp is my favorite anime character of all time. The only time I've ever cried over any sort of fictional event such as a movie, anime, or book is the anime episode where he left the team. That being said, I was unsatisfied with Enies Lobby.
What I don't like about the portrayal of Usopp in Enies Lobby is that he's fallen so far behind Zoro and Sanji in terms of being an equal crew member. Think back to the Arlong saga when all three of them took on henchmen who were of roughly equal strength, specializing in different abilities. Though Usopp ran away from him for half of the battle, he still was able to overcome his enemy. I really would have liked to see Usopp take down one of the CP9, I mean, even Nami took one out! Oda could have easily made one of the CP9 specialize in sharpshooting and made an awesome Sogeking battle with him. He did absolutely nothing against CP9 but snipe Spandam, handcuff himself to Zoro, and run around looking cool.
I just want to see Usopp become as good of a Marksman as Zoro is a Swordsman and Sanji is a Martial Artist. Everyone else at the crew seems to be the very best at what they do, while Usopp doesn't get to shine very often. Hopefully as someone mentioned before, when he finally does become that great warrior of the sea, the change will be dramatic and maybe then he'll be able to stand proudly with the rest. That's just my two cents.
PS. IM SO GLAD THEY DIDN'T LEAVE HIM!!! I WAS SOOO SCARED!
:cwy::cwy::cwy::cwy: -
My theorie is that Oda will be saving super Usopp development when or IF the SH's reach Elbaf.
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I'm really late but I'd just like to say Impact Dial Usopp was the most badarse Usopp in the history of OP. Sogeking? Pff, SUN KING was nothing but a pansy in comparison.
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Well I'm just glad the whole 'Captain Usopp' thing is over. Usopp will hopfully never mention that term again. It annoyed me he always kept saying it. Everyone knew it was a lie, he only said it to make Chopper praise him and make himself feel better. He lived a lie, even in this chapter, he tried to restate that lie.
He can't ever question orders again, which means he must accept Luffy is his captain reguardless of what he wants to believe. Its not the reunion I expected, but the point is put across. Whatever Usopp was before Water 7, he is no longer that, he is a new man. Lets hope he doesn't try to slip back into those habbits, I'm looking forward to progress.
Besides, Usopp at Water 7 point was the only character (besides Chopper) who hadn't improved and matured. Even Luffy has matured a lot (though he still retains most of the things we all love in him), which says something for a person who has a child-like mind.
The good news is that Chopper somewhat has matured as a result of Usopp's fall out with the crew. He still lacks understanding in areas, such as why the crew do certain things (like ignoring Usopp until he said he was sorry). Monster Point could be a good start now he has revealed it. All we need is for him to go on a rampage or two and find his hurt a friend (or something along those lines)… And we got the end of baby Chopper.
Yeah, I don't mind them acting the way they have done, but everyone needs to mature sometime. Water 7 if my fav. arc so far for character development. And Zoro's 'Usopp' speech at the end of it makes me suddenly like Zoro.
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I'm really late but I'd just like to say Impact Dial Usopp was the most badarse Usopp in the history of OP. Sogeking? Pff, SUN KING was nothing but a pansy in comparison.
Badass Usopp against Luffy was more two times the badass than Sogeking to be honest. Soge didn't fight as straigh forward and vicously as Usopp did with Luffy when it came to Merry.
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Well I'm just glad the whole 'Captain Usopp' thing is over. Usopp will hopfully never mention that term again. It annoyed me he always kept saying it. Everyone knew it was a lie, he only said it to make Chopper praise him and make himself feel better. He lived a lie, even in this chapter, he tried to restate that lie.
He can't ever question orders again, which means he must accept Luffy is his captain reguardless of what he wants to believe. Its not the reunion I expected, but the point is put across. Whatever Usopp was before Water 7, he is no longer that, he is a new man. Lets hope he doesn't try to slip back into those habbits, I'm looking forward to progress.
I don't think the "captain usopp" was a problem. And while I agree with the "don't disobey order," how strict are you talking about here? Luffy does stupid and questionable stuff all the time, so I hope they do question him!
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True, true. This is Luffy, but I think after Zoro's speech certain things being questioned (serious as in 'leaving Merry' level for example) won't happen.
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Following Luffy should only be followed when it's a captain's order. If it's something stupid of course they're gonna say no. Luffy makes really good choices when he's acting like the captain he is.
Zoro follows him no matter what except "if he gets in the way of his dream" which was his promise. He has no problem with that, and since he's captain, is obliged to that. Zoro understands that when it comes down to it, Luffy chooses, Usopp didn't. He disrepected him on multiple levels, and that should'nt happen anymore. -
So, basically you're satisfied because this arc "reaffirms the team aspect", that Usopp can't feel like he's useless anymore, and that he must stop considering piracy as a game?
Despite the fact the "team aspect" has been a staple of the series, in pure shonen fashion, since the very beginning, that the events of W7 actually confirmed Usopp's fears of being useless, and finally that the fact he considers this adventure as a game hasn't been tackled at all since he only apologized once he realised his pathetic tricks and lies wouldn't fly and that he would be left behind like a used rag if he didn't tell his friends what they wanted to hear?
…
Wow.
shrugs It's the middle of exam week. I try.
What do you think about Usopp during the course of this arc, Aldrich?
You come at the king, you best not miss.
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I should probably post this up here, too. Apologies if you're wading through this a second time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silence
Anyone trying to say Zoro is more insubordinate to Luffy than Usopp has been curiously absent for the last 100 chapters. I love how people ignore circumstances on this forum to forward their own theories.Since you opened your own can of worms, Buddy, please explain to me how your theory of Usopp's "insubordination" is somehow worse than what Nico Robin almost tried to pull– she basically gave up not only on the entire Mugiwara Crew, but also on herself by wishing to die. Not to mention her dying mother's last wish for Robin to 'live', and the whole team of archeologists who supported Olvia as well.
Usopp merely followed his own convictions to keep his treasure, the Going-Merry-- and went as far as challenging his best friend Luffy for his beliefs. If you call him a coward for this behavior, it's a little foolish (and quite sexist) to avoid calling Nico Robin a coward as well for almost going through with suicide without even trusting in the Mugiwara Pirates to help her fight against her past demons.
For the record-- Usopp never ran away. After he 'quit', he came back on his own as Sogeking, but he still ended up fighting alongside his crew when they needed him. Robin needed to be convinced by ALL of the crew before she made the resolve to fight. The people who are ganging up against Usopp for essentially staying true to the characterisation Oda set him up with since his introduction (the liar, the sneak, but when push-comes-to-shove the guy you can depend on to be there for his friends) are being shortsighted.
It's entirely in Sogeking's character to bawl like a baby and beg to be let back on the crew after trying to con his way back on like nothing happened. That's sorta who Usopp is-- he's still that kid who was orphaned back when his mother died from illness while waiting in vain for Yasopp to return home from his pirate life. You gotta take a step back and realize how helpless a person would feel in that situation. I'm sure Usopp felt like the same thing was happening all over again when he suddenly realized that Luffy might not take him back as the crew's sniper, so yeah, he got desperate and clung to the family that he made (and just helped keep together during the EL battles) with the Straw Hats. I clearly saw the symbolic act of him crying over the potential loss of his new family, when thinking back on how his first one was demolished. You clearly did not.
Along with Nami, he's the only person who's not really battle-trained (actually, Nami's been trained to use the bo-staff, so basically Usopp is the least combat-trained-- and he's regularly going up against Devil Fruit users with multi-million bounties on their heads and you people have the gonads to call him a coward?!)
Creating Sogeking was obviously Usopp's way to negotiate him feeling powerless and useless to the crew. With his 'superpowers,' (which are really just Usopp's great tactics and invention skills) he uses the Sogeking persona to gain the confidence that he never really had growing up as a kid. Him bawling and crying to be let back into the Straw Hats crew I still can't get past as it's oh-so-clearly Usopp realizing for the first time that he is part of a real family, like the one that he lost in his childhood. It wasn't pathetic at all, it was one of the most heartwarming scenes in the entire series. Figures a bunch of immature kiddies can't see something simple as that.
This ends my fanboyish rant.
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Do you REALLY want to ask him that? -_-;
Yes. I'm very interested in what Aldrich has to say about Usopp, especially with regards to the W7 Arc.
I don't see what the problem is with discussing different POV's about a comic book character while on a forum designed for said comic.
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@TeeCakes:
Since you opened your own can of worms, Buddy, please explain to me how your theory of Usopp's "insubordination" is somehow worse than what Nico Robin almost tried to pull– she basically gave up not only on the entire Mugiwara Crew, but also on herself by wishing to die. Not to mention her dying mother's last wish for Robin to 'live', and the whole team of archeologists who supported Olvia as well.
Usopp merely followed his own convictions to keep his treasure, the Going-Merry-- and went as far as challenging his best friend Luffy for his beliefs. If you call him a coward for this behavior, it's a little foolish (and quite sexist) to avoid calling Nico Robin a coward as well for almost going through with suicide without even trusting in the Mugiwara Pirates to help her fight against her past demons.
Id like to clarify that Robin did not bail on the crew like she did w/ crocodile. After years of being hunted down, she felt that she was finally treated as a person and decided to protect those she "loved". She didnt betray the SH. She deemed her new nakama more important than her life and Luffy reminded her how much they value her life too. That was not cowardice.
On the other hand Usopp's main reason for sticking around was because of Going Merry. What pissed off Zoro most was that Usopp showed more allegiance to "his" ship than he did to the captain, who obviously felt as bad about the ship. Their fight was never about the fact that he bailed on them (Robin was easily enough forgiven). It was all about respect, or as the latest chapter put it, Pride.
For the record– Usopp never ran away. After he 'quit', he came back on his own as Sogeking, but he still ended up fighting alongside his crew when they needed him.
He put on the mask so he wouldnt have to confront Luffy and so he could boast his greatness. Though they did need his help, he just wanted to be part of the scene and felt bad if he was left out. Technically thats running away from an apology.
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@TeeCakes:
Since you opened your own can of worms, Buddy, please explain to me how your theory of Usopp's "insubordination" is somehow worse than what Nico Robin almost tried to pull– she basically gave up not only on the entire Mugiwara Crew, but also on herself by wishing to die. Not to mention her dying mother's last wish for Robin to 'live', and the whole team of archeologists who supported Olvia as well.
Usopp merely followed his own convictions to keep his treasure, the Going-Merry-- and went as far as challenging his best friend Luffy for his beliefs. If you call him a coward for this behavior, it's a little foolish (and quite sexist) to avoid calling Nico Robin a coward as well for almost going through with suicide without even trusting in the Mugiwara Pirates to help her fight against her past demons.
For the record-- Usopp never ran away. After he 'quit', he came back on his own as Sogeking, but he still ended up fighting alongside his crew when they needed him. Robin needed to be convinced by ALL of the crew before she made the resolve to fight. The people who are ganging up against Usopp for essentially staying true to the characterisation Oda set him up with since his introduction (the liar, the sneak, but when push-comes-to-shove the guy you can depend on to be there for his friends) are being shortsighted.
It's entirely in Sogeking's character to bawl like a baby and beg to be let back on the crew after trying to con his way back on like nothing happened. That's sorta who Usopp is-- he's still that kid who was orphaned back when his mother died from illness while waiting in vain for Yasopp to return home from his pirate life. You gotta take a step back and realize how helpless a person would feel in that situation. I'm sure Usopp felt like the same thing was happening all over again when he suddenly realized that Luffy might not take him back as the crew's sniper, so yeah, he got desperate and clung to the family that he made (and just helped keep together during the EL battles) with the Straw Hats. I clearly saw the symbolic act of him crying over the potential loss of his new family, when thinking back on how his first one was demolished. You clearly did not.
Along with Nami, he's the only person who's not really battle-trained (actually, Nami's been trained to use the bo-staff, so basically Usopp is the least combat-trained-- and he's regularly going up against Devil Fruit users with multi-million bounties on their heads and you people have the gonads to call him a coward?!)
Creating Sogeking was obviously Usopp's way to negotiate him feeling powerless and useless to the crew. With his 'superpowers,' (which are really just Usopp's great tactics and invention skills) he uses the Sogeking persona to gain the confidence that he never really had growing up as a kid. Him bawling and crying to be let back into the Straw Hats crew I still can't get past as it's oh-so-clearly Usopp realizing for the first time that he is part of a real family, like the one that he lost in his childhood. It wasn't pathetic at all, it was one of the most heartwarming scenes in the entire series. Figures a bunch of immature kiddies can't see something simple as that.
This ends my fanboyish rant.
If Usopp left the crew permanently, then I would be more convinced by his conviction to keep GM.
I think you are being unfair to Robin here. IMO, Robin's situation was more similar to Nami's (At arlong arc) than Usopp's. One of the reasons why Robin left was the WG threatened her with BC, her ultimate childhood fear. She thought it's better for her to die alone than to drag the entire crew down to hell with her. Although it was true that the crew was willing to die for her, that's not what she wanted. She wanted them to live. She did not want to be the Nico Robin of the past 20 years, who would betray her organization w/o a bat of the eyelid so that she could live, as her mum wished. Remember? She told Ao Kiji she had changed.
Another thing was, Robin was no fortune teller. She did not expect Iceberg to survive to tell the truths to the SHs. I knew she could have accepted Sanji's help when he tried to save her at the seatrain. But bear in mind that the CP9er were not stupid. Usopp's smokecreen trick only worked temporarily. Even if Robin cooperated, I believed the seatrain rescue operation would ended up as a failure. Hence Robin chose to follow the Blueno in the end to minimize the damage done to Sanji and Usopp. Blueno even said he wasn't attacking them. He was just defending himself.
At the end of EL arc, didn't Robin thanked everybody? Instead of hiding in a place to think up of a big thank you speech, she opted for the straightforward approach and she did it at the earliest time possible, not when they were about to leave.
Actually, the only battle-trained SHs were Luffy, Zoro and Sanji. The rest of them were self-taught fighters. I don't remember Nami having a master to teach her how to use bo-staff, which explained why her skill was limited. Of course I would take back these words if a second flashback of Nami proved otherwise.
My youtube video, one-sided sanjixusopp. Listen closely to the lyrics
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We should try to remember that Usopp's faithfulness to Merry was a symbolic act of him being angry at Luffy for 'abandoning useless crewmembers.' Also recall that Usopp just got his bony butt handed to him by the Franky Family, along with the money they were going to use to get a new ship. So yes, Merry was Usopp's treasure from Kaya, practically the only good remaining portion of his previous childhood life– one that he couldn't let go in order to fully start a journey of manhood on the dangerous open seas with Devil Fruit Luffy, Bloodthirsty Pirate Hunter Zoro and Devil Woman Nami (heh).
Merry was Usopp's security blanket, the moment it's usefulness was called into question by Luffy, the sniper felt that his days as a member of the Mugiwara family were numbered-- making him have painful flashbacks of his dysfunctional biological family. This is the brilliance of Usopp's character, he's got cowardly traits, no question. On the one hand, he's a normal guy with no powers, combat experience, or high ambitions of success. On the other, he wants to one day meet his pirate father and impress him with his bravery (perhaps he wants to duel his father and win?) and also he loves everyone of his Mugiwara family members.
These aspects of Usopp's life pull him toward two different poles-- he needs to be a brave warrior of the sea to remain with the Straw Hats and meet his father as a man, but the Usopp that he is now still has a lot of growing up to do.
My points about Robin weren't meant to be malicious towards her. It's merely an example of why Usopp's "insubordinate" challenging of Luffy were being blown out of preportion by some posters. The fact is, everyone had to but heads with Luffy before they joined with the Straw Hats. Hell, look at the latest chapters with Franky and the speedo scandal-- the sideburned android did just as much crying and pissing/moaning about leaving behind his family as Usopp did about potentially losing his Straw Hat fam.
While Nico Robin did what she did to ultimately protect Luffy and crew, it was still something that showed her lack of trust in her teammates. She was even told by Saul that one day she'd find nakama that would help her out, and yet still didn't take the leap of faith until after Luffy did everything in his power to reassure her.
Usopp did the same thing when he got the crazy idea that Luffy would dump him when further into the Grand Line when Usopp's shipwright 'skills' weren't needed anymore, and his non-existent fighting ability made him sit on the sidelines for the epic Devil Fruit battles. He didn't trust in his nakama, but really both him and Nico Robin had such f-ed up childhoods that you can't really blame either of them. It's just hilarious that nobody is making any "Bury the Nico Robin Hatchet" threads when to date I can count the number of big boss battles Robin's done in One Piece on one...finger. S'all I'm saying.
Saving Robin had the added effect of making Usopp understand what he did wrong when he challenged Luffy, and as my final point of evidence, recall who the one who initially told Robin to "Trust in Luffy," was. You can tell by that scene dozens of chapters ago alone, that Usopp's breakdown in the latest chapter wasn't "forced" or something that Usopp was saying out of desperation like some people have been wildly claiming on these forums. Usopp was being sincere, and he definitely grew in character a few steps closer to becoming a great warrior of the sea. The very fact that he even wants to get on board the new ship is the easy clue here, there's definitely been an evolution here that I don't understand why people have trouble seeing. But my job is not to coerce people to see things my way, I'm just here to rant about my favorite Sensei of the Afro-boxing style, and to love Nami in oh so unnatural ways.
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If Usopp left the crew permanently, then I would be more convinced by his conviction to keep GM.
I think you are being unfair to Robin here. IMO, Robin's situation was more similar to Nami's (At arlong arc) than Usopp's. One of the reasons why Robin left was the WG threatened her with BC, her ultimate childhood fear. She thought it's better for her to die alone than to drag the entire crew down to hell with her. Although it was true that the crew was willing to die for her, that's not what she wanted. She wanted them to live. She did not want to be the Nico Robin of the past 20 years, who would betray her organization w/o a bat of the eyelid so that she could live, as her mum wished. Remember? She told Ao Kiji she had changed.
Another thing was, Robin was no fortune teller. She did not expect Iceberg to survive to tell the truths to the SHs. I knew she could have accepted Sanji's help when he tried to save her at the seatrain. But bear in mind that the CP9er were not stupid. Usopp's smokecreen trick only worked temporarily. Even if Robin cooperated, I believed the seatrain rescue operation would ended up as a failure. Hence Robin chose to follow the Blueno in the end to minimize the damage done to Sanji and Usopp. Blueno even said he wasn't attacking them. He was just defending himself.
At the end of EL arc, didn't Robin thanked everybody? Instead of hiding in a place to think up of a big thank you speech, she opted for the straightforward approach and she did it at the earliest time possible, not when they were about to leave.
Actually, the only battle-trained SHs were Luffy, Zoro and Sanji. The rest of them were self-taught fighters. I don't remember Nami having a master to teach her how to use bo-staff, which explained why her skill was limited. Of course I would take back these words if a second flashback of Nami proved otherwise.
Uh, actully, Robin did not really betray anyone in her past. She simply ran off on them when they were planning to turn her in for the bounty on her head. And these people she ran off never dies, she olny threated to kill Crocodile because he was going to kill her.
Robin was a bit of a croward: she was afried that the Straw Hat pirates will betray her also and she did not want to face her past demon.
True Robin wanted them to live but she was afried to get betrayed if they found out about her secrets.
Usopp on the other hand acts as a man but I doubt he's gonna stop lying and be a croward, he'll always lie and be a croward after this arc.
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I would like to see Usopp never lie again, but right back in the beginning of his introduction we learn he lies because he cares. His lies about Captain Usopp kept his spirit high and made him forget he was completely useless at times. Since as Soegking he has witnessed he is important to the crew, even if only as a supporting character not a major fighter, hopfully he won't be scared now. The root of 'Captain Usopp' was because of his fear of everything.
If Usopp continues to be scared like he was before water 7, major scared I add, I'd never like this character. Lying because you care is one thing, lying to hid your fear gets boring. usoppfor me was never too great for this reason.
Yeah Joekido hit the nail on the head with Robin though. She was also afriad. She was ready to surrender to death rather then find out if she ever found those nakama Saul promised she'd find, or complete her mother's and friends work. She was scared of her destiny, if anything.
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What do you think about Usopp during the course of this arc, Aldrich?
Let me say first I liked Usopp before the World Government saga. I had no problems with his supporting role/coward personality, given that when it really mattered he was still able to forget his childish stich and stand up for himself (Arlong Park, Alabasta, even Skypiea).
Now, arrives W7 arc and all of sudden he inexplicably gets that power downgrade that leads to his Sasukesque emo fit. He seems to not accept his new state of weakness and inferiority towards his comrades, so logically I'm thinking "nice, Oda wants to make the character evolve".
After all Usopp's the classical underdog, weak shonen character who grows towards the course of the series. Alabasta and Skypiea were good but he didn't really show anything new here, this is the perfect occasion to bring him to a new level. He does that a little by standing up against Luffy for his beliefs, and putting up a good fight against him, showing an interesting, ballsy side of his character we rarely saw before, as well as a hint towards his new fighting style.
Then, here goes the action part of the saga, where he's the only one who not only doesn't get a fight, but acts mainly as dead weight for his friends, confirming his fears of inferiority and uselessness. Especially as he build himself a new weapon that was of absolutely no use in one on one combat, be it against Jyabura or the Captains on the bridge, while the weapon he build for Nami turned her from everyday harmless chick to competent fighter able to hold her own on the Grandline.
To add insult to injury, the only redeeming act from Usopp consists of him finally figuring that he's the crew's sniper… Something he knew all along, as he already used his particular skills to help his friends before, yet that didn't stop him from feeling useless at the beginning of the W7 arc. Not to mention even if he uses his gunner skills more often now, it wouldn't change the fact compared to the others he still can't fight as well as them and after more than 400 chapters only starts to use his particular skills on a regular basis, whereas Nami, Chopper, Sanji do so since the very beginning. Again, a proof he was right to consider himself weak and useless compared to the others. And what has he done to change?
Finally, here comes the conclusion. He realises he's still weak and far less useful on a whole than his comrades, the very reason that made him leave the crew. He accomplished nothing, except throwing an hissy fit out of frustration and insecurity.
He's exactly the same than before, except that now, he's stripped from his bravery, as he litterally crumbled against Jyabura after showing his initial resolve, something he never did in previous arcs, of his strategic mind, as both against the FF and Jyabura he showed his ineptitude to take advantage of the weapons at his disposal, as well of his pride, as instead of apologizing straight away like a man he had to be on the verge of being abandonned to finally admit he was wrong and the whole stuff was useless and him being an hormonal carwreck all the time.
So basically what could have been a progress of Usopp towards his dream of being a brave warrior of the seas consisted of a complete demolition of everything that made the character likeable in the first place. Now I have little doubts he's not going to stay in that pitiful state until the end of the series, but I can't help to question the reason to waste a hundred chapters to convey the idea Usopp is still a weakling, the least important strawhat and a puerile moron, even after going through the exact same troubles than the rest of the crew since the beginning, but now, promised, he's going to change!
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So basically what could have been a progress of Usopp towards his dream of being a brave warrior of the seas consisted of a complete demolition of everything that made the character likeable in the first place. Now I have little doubts he's not going to stay in that pitiful state until the end of the series, but I can't help to question the reason to waste a hundred chapters to convey the idea Usopp is still a weakling, the least important strawhat and a puerile moron, even after going through the exact same troubles than the rest of the crew since the beginning, but now, promised, he's going to change!
I hate Usopp as much as the guy next door, but when I read the arcs I get a "break a few eggs to make an omelette"-feeling and Oda showing that Usopp needs to get rid of his childish illusions and fantasies.
Could quite likely be that Usopp's too prideful ( pride -> vanity ) and he's letting it cloud what he should really be doing. -
@TeeCakes:
We should try to remember that Usopp's faithfulness to Merry was a symbolic act of him being angry at Luffy for 'abandoning useless crewmembers.' Also recall that Usopp just got his bony butt handed to him by the Franky Family, along with the money they were going to use to get a new ship. So yes, Merry was Usopp's treasure from Kaya, practically the only good remaining portion of his previous childhood life– one that he couldn't let go in order to fully start a journey of manhood on the dangerous open seas with Devil Fruit Luffy, Bloodthirsty Pirate Hunter Zoro and Devil Woman Nami (heh).
Merry was Usopp's security blanket, the moment it's usefulness was called into question by Luffy, the sniper felt that his days as a member of the Mugiwara family were numbered-- making him have painful flashbacks of his dysfunctional biological family. This is the brilliance of Usopp's character, he's got cowardly traits, no question. On the one hand, he's a normal guy with no powers, combat experience, or high ambitions of success. On the other, he wants to one day meet his pirate father and impress him with his bravery (perhaps he wants to duel his father and win?) and also he loves everyone of his Mugiwara family members.
These aspects of Usopp's life pull him toward two different poles-- he needs to be a brave warrior of the sea to remain with the Straw Hats and meet his father as a man, but the Usopp that he is now still has a lot of growing up to do.
My points about Robin weren't meant to be malicious towards her. It's merely an example of why Usopp's "insubordinate" challenging of Luffy were being blown out of preportion by some posters. The fact is, everyone had to but heads with Luffy before they joined with the Straw Hats. Hell, look at the latest chapters with Franky and the speedo scandal-- the sideburned android did just as much crying and pissing/moaning about leaving behind his family as Usopp did about potentially losing his Straw Hat fam.
While Nico Robin did what she did to ultimately protect Luffy and crew, it was still something that showed her lack of trust in her teammates. She was even told by Saul that one day she'd find nakama that would help her out, and yet still didn't take the leap of faith until after Luffy did everything in his power to reassure her.
Usopp did the same thing when he got the crazy idea that Luffy would dump him when further into the Grand Line when Usopp's shipwright 'skills' weren't needed anymore, and his non-existent fighting ability made him sit on the sidelines for the epic Devil Fruit battles. He didn't trust in his nakama, but really both him and Nico Robin had such f-ed up childhoods that you can't really blame either of them. It's just hilarious that nobody is making any "Bury the Nico Robin Hatchet" threads when to date I can count the number of big boss battles Robin's done in One Piece on one...finger. S'all I'm saying.
Saving Robin had the added effect of making Usopp understand what he did wrong when he challenged Luffy, and as my final point of evidence, recall who the one who initially told Robin to "Trust in Luffy," was. You can tell by that scene dozens of chapters ago alone, that Usopp's breakdown in the latest chapter wasn't "forced" or something that Usopp was saying out of desperation like some people have been wildly claiming on these forums. Usopp was being sincere, and he definitely grew in character a few steps closer to becoming a great warrior of the sea. The very fact that he even wants to get on board the new ship is the easy clue here, there's definitely been an evolution here that I don't understand why people have trouble seeing. But my job is not to coerce people to see things my way, I'm just here to rant about my favorite Sensei of the Afro-boxing style, and to love Nami in oh so unnatural ways.
You quoted me when I said, "Anyone trying to say Zoro is more insubordinate to Luffy than Usopp has been curiously absent for the last 100 chapters. I love how people ignore circumstances on this forum to forward their own theories."
The reason why I said "What does that have to do with me thinking Zoro isn't more insubordinate than Usopp?" in response to your first rant is because both of the rants you've spouted about Robin being more insubordinate than Usopp and Usopp not being all that insubordinate have nothing to do with whether or not Zoro is more insubordinate than Usopp.
The answer to that is rather obvious.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
 
