greg,
! That's kind of odd. For him to be able to pick a fight against a younger Garp and Sengoku as well as Roger himself and not display any haki-abilities against Luffy is a huge plot hole if the film is indeed canon. Even if 20 years have passed, I still can't fathom how Luffy can just defeat him w/o any haki-based attack of some sort.
! But then again, that would spoil how Oda would progress Luffy's abilities in the manga.
thanks for answering the question.
greg,
thanks for all the stuff you did for us fanboys. i just have a quick question regarding the film. did shiki or luffy display any haki-based attack or was there any incidence of haki-use, whether accidental or not?
thanks.
I get it. Luffy's pretty intelligent to come up with that plan.
He kicks the shattered pillar, the three admirals activate their logia powers to have the shattered pieces of the pillar "phase" through them. Luffy then activates Gear 2 to run past them (since the three admirals are in "phase" mode, Luffy can just breeze right through them).
He almost ends up succeeding but Kizaru, with his speed-of-light power catches up and kicks Luffy away again.
That's what I make out of the pictures. (Pages 4-5)
Just a quick observation.
There were 2 noticable hits in the current chapter that BB landed. They were:
1. Right punch - His 1st attack. He grabbed Ace first and then punched him in the gut/stomach, sending him back.
2. Chop on the neck - This was his next attack after Ace used that double spear thingy on his chest.
I just noticed that there was no panel depicting BB grabbing Ace prior to chopping him on the neck.
This leads me to believe the following:
-BB is "being his element" all the time. His "DF negation powers" are automatically turned on ALL THE TIME (following what I have noticed), but his "Black Hole Vortex" power is another thing that needs to be invoked/activated.
-All he needs to do is for some unsuspecting logia users to allow him to come near first and land a hit since he does not really need to grab the opponent first in order to hit them.
-If in case there are smart logias who would want to play keep-away, the "Black Hole Vortex" ability comes in and forces them to fight BB in close-range.
-BB said in the translation that there are some things he can suck up. He did not specifically say what, but I interpreted it as "Well, I can suck up stuff, but not all of it." This leads me to believe that there are certain "rules" for his Vortex Ability which would probably be, (based from observation), he can suck up inanimate objects but not living objects. I am not 100% sure of this theory, but the wierd thing is, if he can suck up human beings in his Vortex, why didn't he just suck Ace up in that Black Pillar? If we remember correctly, when he activated the Vortex ability, he propelled Ace to him and opted to grab him instead of just sucking him up.
-Fire is not a living thing, so, it can be sucked up. However, like I said, BB needs to activate the Vortex ability first before he can suck stuff up. Some people already explained that the reason why he got hit by the Fire Lance and the Fire Firefly attacks were because he was unprepared. I believe this. He shrugged off the Fire Cross attack after eating Ace's Lance and after Van Auger's dialogue, it was shown that BB was not having a hard time with Ace at all. (Which makes me wonder what the hell is the point of Ace in using the big-ass Fire Ball attack in the 1st place - Maybe it's just Oda wanting to show us what Ace's most powerful attack is before he loses/gets killed off)
Now, given the above scenario…if indeed BB can't suck up human beings in his Vortex, then Luffy still has a shot against him. If you notice the pattern that Luffy has been "developing", he's just utilizing his rubber abilities to augment his range (most of the time) and apply more force/speed to his attacks. HIs strength has always been there. True, the rubber abilities add so much to his strength, but minus the Gomu-Gomu fruit, I believe he can still fight against some strong opponents. His latest fight against the CP9 showed him (and us as well) that he has a lot to learn in terms of being a physical fighter because he depended so much on his DF ability just to emulate the Rokushiki techniques.
Now I finally see boiga's point. If it is indeed true that BB can't suck up human beings, then Black Hole Vortex + Luffy accelerating to BB with a Gear 2 Bazooka = pain for BB. BB negating Luffy's rubber properties would mean jack shit since Luffy has range on his side and his attacks will be amplified by the acceleration BB produces. Therefore, Luffy is still THE perfect match against BB. (As well as prolly CP9 zoans).
Well of course, all of this theorizing goes to shit if BB can indeed suck up human beings, but it's worth a shot, IMO.
That's actually the ideal situation for luffy. If blackbeard accelerates luffy towards him, luffy can prepare a bazooka attack in the air. He sends both arms way back and adds the acceleration from the arm rubber band to blackbeards gravitational acceleration and land both palms on blackbeard's face. The resulting collision will knock luffy back out of blackbeards grabbing range. I'm seriously expecting this exact scenario to be part of the opening exchange of attacks in this fight.
That is, IF BB directs/accelerates Luffy to his face. Another power I have seen that BB uses is that black column thingy that he uses to suck stuff. If he uses that to absorb Luffy's punches instead, I have a hard time visioning their fight.
@ultimateclima:
Kuma's probably the best chance against Blackbeard right now.
Enlighten me….please point me any chapter that shows your knowledge or that defends this claim. We don't even know what Kuma's power is yet!
Why would you say that???? Ace is stronger then luffy, yet he got man handle by Blackbeard.
Stronger than Luffy BEFORE. We don't know right now.
Ace is probably still physically stronger, but that doesn't mean his endurance was ever monstrous. I like to think Luffy's endurance has always been ridiculous, while Ace has always had demonic strength.
Your point being?
Ace being stronger is TRUE when Luffy and Ace when they were younger. I have been reading for 400 chapters and I have yet to see Ace beat somebody SANS his DF. I'm not downplaying Ace's fighting prowess. For all we know, he may really be one tough mofo as Luffy said, but IMO, you guys are giving Luffy too little credit. I don't get where you're getting the "Ace is probably still stronger" stuff you mentioned other than from Luffy's claims based on his interpretation on their (the brothers') situation a couple of years ago.
To come up with something that "Ace has always had demonic strength" is too much considering we haven't seen him fight physically yet. All we get was Luffy mentioning that he cannot beat Ace before.
Logically, Luffy has more reason to improve in terms of physical fighting since his DF requires him to. Ace has very little reason to fight in a physical manner at all since his DF makes him invincible to physical attacks.
boiga: Point taken. However, I still don't get how Luffy can "bounce" off of Blackbeard if BB is has a grip on him. For instance, Luffy has his right arm streched out in a rubbery state. His left arm gets sucked in by BB. He cannot transform/strech any other parts now, but his right arm retains its elasticity because he streched before he got held down by BB. By all intents and purposes, if Luffy decides to punch BB with his elongated right hand and BB decides to suck the punch also, how would Luffy being rubber allow him to bounce off of BB?
Also, your analysis of rubber "bouncing" off gravity is a little off. Rubber can bounce off the surface of ANOTHER solid object, but as for gravity itself? Rubber has NO "resistance for it". If you take away the solid object, a rubber ball just keeps on falling.
Also, unlike with a logia, blackbeard's touch will not stop luffy from being rubber (think stretchy neck in arlong park.)
Blackbeard specifically said that if he touches ANY DF user (logia, zoan, paramecian), the ability of the user is nullified.
Which means if Luffy touches BB, he cannot bounce off because the rubber properties are negated.
I think it will be a close-hitting match between BB and Luffy. No DFs, no nasty tricks, pure ol' scrappin'.
And I also agree that Ace's (or any Logia, for that matter), usual "over-dependence" on their DF powers to phase through normal attack lessen their prowess in physical fighting. I mean, if Croc and Enel fought Luffy with just bare hands, Luffy would have had an easier time. It's easy to think that Luffy has surpassed Ace in terms of physical strength over time since Luffy practically gets beat up most of the time while Ace, like BB said, has not felt any direct hit on him since eating/mastering that DF. I don't really understand how people fail to imagine this scenario just because Luffy made a comment once that Ace owned him when they were younger.
1. What about character interactions? How people interact with Franky now that he's on the crew, that's mostly what I was talking about–and I'm pretty sure that's going to happen.
2. And then there's new stuff with the ship. And maybe Robin and Usopp will do something else, who knows. Oh yeah, someone has to tell Chopper about his monster thing, if they haven't already. Quit acting likes nothings changed, just cause they aren't the changes you wanted.
3. And I doubt Usopp will change in the way to imagine. The "I'm a captain" wasn't so offensive to me, and in the big picture it's the least of his problems. His personality is fine, he just needs to work on his fighting related stuff, and in that respect parts of his personality that limit his dream and role in the crew.
4. Maybe Oda made this chapter cause...it's wouldn't make sense if the crew teleported from Water 7 to their next destination? Are you saying that they can just write off the escape from Garp like that?
1. New character interaction is a given with Franky since uh…he's actually new to the crew.
2. I hardly call those 'developments'. Luffy is still the same old goofball with new attacks. He gets bad-ass and learns the weight of being a captain during the Usopp fight, and he reverts back to his old self in the recent chapters. Zoro is always "...". Sanji is still a sucker for women. Etc..etc...IMO, I can pretty much say that the major significant developments were for the sidecharacters since we're not seeing them that often and when we do, we get to learn new shit about them.
There have been changes, but it's very minimal, at least, for the main crew, IMO. Stop shoving your opinion on me.
3. Yeah, he needs to kick ass next chapter. Oh wait, I thought you guys said that he wasn't suppossed to be a fighter? (Or was it the other guys) People keep on arguing that he should be the crew's sniper and I'm still not seeing it in a bigger context of things (for the new world adventures)
4. Uh, maybe Oda suddenly jumped from the Ace/BB fight/confrontation because....?
Some people have acknowledged the wierd pacing he had these days. Luffy meeting his grandpa ---> WB/Shanks ---> BB/Ace ----> Luffy + Crew new ship, Usopp rejoining, Franky joining, them escaping.
Like the other guys said, Franky's joining could have been done in a few panels. Another thing was, Usopp's rejoining should have been > than Franky's since, IMO, he's the 'more important crewmember' given the context of things, but Franky's joining had more 'screentime'.
Bottomline is, I don't see the need to see what has happened with Vivi and co if it wasn't going to contribute anything to the story. Smoker's and Tash's appereance was justified because clearly, Smoker is still in the hunt for Luffy and to show how they have climbed ranks. What's the point of showing Vivi and the others? Their opinion about Luffy letting Robin join the crew <<<<<<< what happened between WB/Shanks and Ace/BB, IMO.
Speaking of conclusion, we still need to see how the reformed crew behaves, now that Franky is here and Usopp and Robin are back. In fact, Luffy needs to confirm where the crew is going next, since the entire crew wasn't in the area.
You can quote me on this.
There will be NO significant change for most of the crew's behaviour (Usopp especially, 'cept that we may see less of the "I'm the ship's captain" crap) up until the next major batch of fights.
As for development, I agree that this chapter was a bit stalling. Yes, the SH pirates are the main characters but on the larger context of things, the emperors, shichibukais, WG are the things that will determine the important outcome of the SH's endeavors. What I don't get is why Oda is taking so long to conclude the WB/Shanks and Ace/BB fight. Maybe he can't decide who wins or how it will end? Maybe he just to piss off/hold off so that fans will salivate for the conclusion?
Because I'm pretty sure once we see the conclusion of the fights, there will be several major bombshells of info that will be dropped again.
Francky said in the last chapter :
Franky: All the things that you old ship Merry could do
Franky: this ship could do them better!
Franky: The brave spirit of that ship will be carried on by the "Thousand Sunny!"Franky: If it breaks,
Franky: I'll fix it!
Franky: The ship and its weapons,
Franky: I'll look after them!
Franky: From this day forward,
Franky: this is our ship.If it's not an allegeance what is it???
I'll make it simple.
It's not nearly as dramatic as the other guys' allegiances, don't you think?
Vivi's speech with the whole strawhat crew was more dramatic than this one.
One could argue that Franky's a wacky character and not fit for that, but so is Usopp.
