It's also possible Hawkins just didn't know or think to account for it because he's never been in a situation before where his straws are connected to someone that's missing a body part.
Chapter 1,029: The Tower
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If Oda really intends to keep Kid and Law relevant as worthy rivals for Luffy then there's no way that the two of them combined will not take her out while Luffy by himself will take down Kaido. Also it is the perfect cop out for Luffy ones again avoiding a direct fight with the female representative of a big antagonist group.
With the amount of people who have dealt damage to Kaido so far, we can no longer consider that Luffy took him down by himself
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Killer knows Kid better than Hawkins does. Hawkins forgot a detail because of overconfidence. Killer had over 90% chance of losing. Why would Hawkins worry? Victory was his from the start!
I actually interpretated it as Killer simply figuring out an aspect of the Wara Wara that Hawkins wasn't aware of, because he's never linked himself to an amputee. It's kinda like Enel discovering that rubber is a thing or Crocodile finding out that blood is effective against him, thus they all got caught off guard.
Killer is just very perceptive. He also figured out how Apoo's DF worked after all.
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Yea I don't get trying to make Hawkins as being dumb, it's a reasonable enough thing for him to not consider given the unique situation. Not to mention, if it was such an obvious solution, then Killer would've done it earlier and not have seen it as a gamble in the first place.
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Are we 100% sure Hawkins knew about Kidd's arm in the first place? It may not be all that widely known. Kidd generally goes around wearing his prosthetic (or the amalgamation of magnetically-controlled metal serving as such), and I don't think it'd be particularly clear whether it was a replacement for a lost limb or merely armor encasing an existing one to someone who didn't already know.
While the community writ large seems to have seen it coming ("Fullmetal Pirate" was pretty much my first thought upon seeing Kidd's post-TS design), I don't think it was ever officially brought up until Udon, and by that point, if Hawkins didn't already know about Kidd's arm, he certainly didn't have much of an incentive to look into the matter - from his perspective, Kidd had already lost and was effectively dead once he'd been shipped off to Udon.
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I am going to revisit this theory, highlighting and adding images to what has happened since. Leaving a quote from the original post. I wrote this around the time Kaido was telling Kidd that they were playing pirate games. (Chapter 824)
@K.:
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-Luffy defeats Big Mom and Kaido (whatever the order, it doesn't matter, it will be world shaking news - just looking at the consequences of defeating Doffy)
Big News Morgans classifies this as a defeat for Big Mom and a win for Luffy, declaring him an upcoming emperor.
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-Blackbeard is also going for One Piece(REALLY?!). He knows Kaido and Big Mom had two of the road poneglyph and believes that Luffy will disrupt the balance, we know he likes to steal, so he decides to launch an attack against Luffy.
These are the instances where Blackbeard appears. To me Teach took lots of effort to get where he is now. Years of planning, betraying Whitebeard, 2 years to be considered an emperor by taking territories and defeating Marco. On the other hand, Luffy 'merely escapes' Big Mom's territory and he is called the same. Blackbeard is the type of opportunistic person to take advantage of the situation.
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-A way this could come up, after everyone is tired of defeating Kaido(some people say he isn't going to be defeated in Wano, which would go better with this little scenario - I believe he will be defeated in Wano), and we all think there will be a big party. BAM Blackbeard shows up ready to be an asshole. There is no way they can fight against them after such a fight, so there will be a sacrifice: Marco, as the leader of the Whitebeard pirates, he has a vendetta against BB, a "duty" to protect Ace's brother and also adding Marco and Luffy's stronger friendship after their fight with Kaido.
I can image a double spread of Marco saying: Teach, you want to become the Pirate King, but that will not happen, the man who'll become pirate king will be Luffy!. Everyone escapes, Teach gets a new fruit (and if he can use three, that'd be insane Darkness quaking Phoenix…jajaja what a fanfiction I just made - there are theories about the three devil fruits, I'm still skeptical, but that Jolly Roger is definitely a curiosity.), Luffy has more reasons to go against BB, and this does not deny Blackbeard killing Shanks which could happen after this encounter, and will go along with the fact the Luffy loses the first couple of rounds against a main villain.[/fanfic]
Midway through it seemed that Marco was not going to make it, with the message and Weevil. But he is here now. It lives! I also like the comments he has about the Straw Hats.
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Basing my idea from the quote above, I was thinking that we know some of Blackbeards concrete objectives. He wants to collect devil fruit powers. I think the war between Luffy and Kaido will be big enough that Blackbeard (whom would also know where Wano is during his WB era) will storm the battefield. Now, I think he is going to particularly crash the celebration party after Kaido's defeat, why? Because everyone will be exhausted and it would just be easy pickings from there. I think that this will add onto the direct tension between the Strawhats and the Blackbeard pirates. Also this is where Marco's fruit will be stolen, potentially Jozu's if he wasn't already defeated, and all the artificial devil fruit users (if he can steal those as well, we might find he can't). Luffy and company will have to escape, and Momo could again be homeless, and he might stay with the minks until the final war. This could also be seen as Luffy's failure.
After reading the newspaper, Blackbeard says they should claim the prize before the navy. This is also a reaction to the warlord system being abolished. Currently we are seeing CP0 going towards Wano. This would also be a sweet payback for interrupting their raid on Baltigo. I would just love to see the Blackbeard pirates arriving and mocking the alliance’s effort. The prize being not only taking Wano but uncovering its secrets.
The alliance will escape, maybe even using Momo’s power to evacuate everyone on Onigashima.
Now, after this I think the Strawhats are going to flee towards Elbaf, or maybe another island.
Regardles they are going to meet Shanks and his crew. For the sake of this theory, I will assume that the warlord system has been abolished and Mihawk has decided to stay with Shanks for now. Everyone gets their final mentoring arc.
Warlord system has been abolished. Wherever Luffy escapes to, Ace’s grave location, Elbaf, Roadstar, Shanks will help Luffy come to terms with not liberating Wano, but having defeated Kaido nonetheless as an accomplishment. He has mentioned that they should be meeting soon, and after beating Kaido he would be a 'great pirate'.
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The rest of part 2 is too far into the future and things will probably change. So I will leave it at that. In terms of Blackbeard coming to Wano, I think the pieces are there for it to work. There is also that comment about the 'real boss of Wano'. However, Blackbeard's objective could be something else, a misdirection by showing us his movements in parallel to the events of Wano. Although, Moria is with him now, whom is also tied to the history of Wano and Kaido.
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Another random thought. Does anybody think, like I do, that it's strange that Killer understands the weaknesses of Hawkin's fruit better than Hawkins himself?
Hawkins seemed to be genuinely shocked when he lost his arm: but he knew very well Kidd had already lost his arm. He should have seen it coming.Honestly, with Hawkins we have reached a new and unexplored level of incompetence.
I don't think Killer knew the weaknesses of his fruit better than Hawkins. I think Hawkins simply got too cocky. That trumps competence and being sharp in a fight.
Sure he knows Kid lost his arm but maybe he just forgot which one. In a scenario where attacking him causes Kid pain maybe he thought Killer wouldn't even risk cutting off limbs.
Plus Killer asked the question before doing it. There's just as much a chance that cutting off Hawkins' arm would've caused Kid a shit ton of phantom limb pain instead.
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I actually interpretated it as Killer simply figuring out an aspect of the Wara Wara that Hawkins wasn't aware of, because he's never linked himself to an amputee. It's kinda like Enel discovering that rubber is a thing or Crocodile finding out that blood is effective against him, thus they all got caught off guard.
Killer is just very perceptive. He also figured out how Apoo's DF worked after all.
I don't disagree with any you said. My point is just that Hawkins probably was so overconfident that he didn't bother to actually think about his strategy. He knew from the start that he would win in 93 conflicts out of 100. So, he did a lot of dumb decisions, taunt Killer for long enough for the later to figure a way out.
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Another random thought. Does anybody think, like I do, that it's strange that Killer understands the weaknesses of Hawkin's fruit better than Hawkins himself?
Hawkins seemed to be genuinely shocked when he lost his arm: but he knew very well Kidd had already lost his arm. He should have seen it coming.Honestly, with Hawkins we have reached a new and unexplored level of incompetence.
The carelessness that comes with being overconfident. One of the other symbolic meanings of the Tower does happen to be unforeseen catastrophe after all.
But that can swing both ways.
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I just want to point out that this forum hasn't been this fast for me in years. Not sure who did what, but thank you.
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Another random thought. Does anybody think, like I do, that it's strange that Killer understands the weaknesses of Hawkin's fruit better than Hawkins himself?
Hawkins seemed to be genuinely shocked when he lost his arm: but he knew very well Kidd had already lost his arm. He should have seen it coming.Honestly, with Hawkins we have reached a new and unexplored level of incompetence.
It read to me as Hawkins being overconfident rahter then him being ignorant of how his fruit work.
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I just want to point out that this forum hasn't been this fast for me in years. Not sure who did what, but thank you.
Yeah, It's working incredibly well for me too, lots of thanks!
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I just want to point out that this forum hasn't been this fast for me in years. Not sure who did what, but thank you.
I noticed it recently as well. It wasn't super slow but it definitely took time just to get to the next page or enter different threads. Now its happening within seconds.
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@Zik:
I think Oda is just recognizing his lack of attention to Kid among the supernova especially when he is suppose to be one of two main rivals to Luffy from that group but it seems that Kid basically had the fate Luffy would've had he not stopped to train for 2 years having learned his lesson from Saboady and failing to save Ace; Kid basically got his ass kicked all over the New World with some minor victories and then got betrayed.
I think the first showing of that is the strawhat level showing of Killer in this recent chapter. It's quite the leap in character building and hyping the character up.
I think Kid may get some sort of power up Enies Lobby style and beat up Big Mom a bit but not definitely beat her even with Law fighting with him.
Kid will get his focus and spotlight but I think it's just a start as to establish how Oda will use him in the future.
I had several interpretations of the tower card in the spoiler thread and after reading the leak chapter and official I see it as the typical outcome we all knew was going to happen. Hawkins was extremely reliant on his tarot reading and percentages of the alliance's chances against Kaido. Oda would lap back to it more than once. So it was only a matter of time that when going back again Hawkins would be shocked to see how things took a 180 and now he's on the losing side.
I think the card just points to Kaido's downfall mainly. The theme of the old generation falling to the new has been stressed aplenty but I don't think the theme just ends with this saga. Kid and Law will play their part in beating up Big Mom but I cant see her dying here or beaten to the point she's unconscious.
I have dabbled with the new notion (not yet a theory) that Kid will kill Kaido after Luffy beats him. Making that tower card have significance to several key characters.
But do you think Kidd will get a hint of Advanced CoC?. I don’t think Oda would put him equal to Luffy in this fight and shouldn’t but maybe give him a punch or two of CoC imbued vs Big Mom?.
I don’t think Big Mom will be taken down but she will not get her way through her own strength this time. I feel like there will be a big standoff at the end between forces who are against Luffy and forces who might be pro Luffy or just don’t want the anti Luffy forces to get their way. We are talking forces that are not currently in the fight, including Big Mom( as in she will be part of these forces). Big Mom’s pirates are still out there somewhere and they’re gonna show up at some point.
I think the News will be, even if Big Mom is not taken down here, Kaido and Big Mom defeated by the new Generation, and that might be what the tarot card represents.
In regards to Hawkings, he’s a big disappointment. Him, law and Drake had my interest till before the Wano Arc, never was a fan of Kidd but I understood his character presence in relationship to Luffy. Hawkings is just a mess. He might comeback with a changed perspective but I don’t want him to. He went too deep with his tarot cards survival percentage and his kowtowing and giving up to the strongest. The new Generation was about daring and challenging the old powers and he wasn’t about that.
I completely disagree on Kidd taking Kaido’s head. I don’t see that happening. I got my own theory which I have pointed out before. If anybody is gonna actually kill Kaido, that would be Blackbeard. I think Cariboo has been working and communicating with Blackbeard this whole time and he’s been helping the strawhats by orders of Blackbeard in the hope that Kaido gets soften and injured enough so he can pull the same trick he used at marine fort.
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But do you think Kidd will get a hint of Advanced CoC?. I don’t think Oda would put him equal to Luffy in this fight and shouldn’t but maybe give him a punch or two of CoC imbued vs Big Mom?.
If he does it'll be depicted in a way to say he's nowhere as good at it as Luffy. Maybe a flash in the pan one time thing and he doesn't fully understand what he did.
I think the News will be, even if Big Mom is not taken down here, Kaido and Big Mom defeated by the new Generation, and that might be what the tarot card represents.
At the very least, Big News Morgan is definitely going to promote it that way.
In regards to Hawkings, he’s a big disappointment. Him, law and Drake had my interest till before the Wano Arc, never was a fan of Kidd but I understood his character presence in relationship to Luffy. Hawkings is just a mess. He might comeback with a changed perspective but I don’t want him to. He went too deep with his tarot cards survival percentage and his kowtowing and giving up to the strongest. The new Generation was about daring and challenging the old powers and he wasn’t about that.
I got about 3 supernovas I like (not including Zoro and Luffy). Really felt iOda could've done better but given he made them on the spot and didn't even intend for all of them to still be around in the New World, I just take them for what they are. My expectations were low, would have to be plain awful for me to be disappointed.
I completely disagree on Kidd taking Kaido’s head. I don’t see that happening. I got my own theory which I have pointed out before. If anybody is gonna actually kill Kaido, that would be Blackbeard. I think Cariboo has been working and communicating with Blackbeard this whole time and he’s been helping the strawhats by orders of Blackbeard in the hope that Kaido gets soften and injured enough so he can pull the same trick he used at marine fort.
I don't think BB is going to show up at all but it wpuld be great. I feel Oda made it pretty clear what BB is currently pursuing is whatever the Marines were gearing up to go get.
Plus I don't think Oda is just going to repeat exactly what happened in Marineford.
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In regards to Hawkings failing to life up to not being worthy of a Supernova. I think his portrayal was good. He embodies a failed version of a supernova, just like Apoo, IMO. They gave up their dreams, took the easy route and lived under the protection of an emperor. Instead of challenging the status quo. I mean even Urouge challenged an Emperor and had some feats, even if they were not shown in the manga. In that regard, I think OnePiece wouldn't be as good as it is, if Oda decided to not show someone of the worst generation failing. In this case its Hawkings and Apoo, but it could easily haven been someone else.
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With the amount of people who have dealt damage to Kaido so far, we can no longer consider that Luffy took him down by himself
But the same could be said about Big Mom. It was a 5 vs. 2 fight in the beginning. And while Kaido has taken quite the number of attacks nothing seemed to have been as deep as what Luffy unleashed on him. I know that it's not just the 5 super rookies but also the 9 Scabbards but while they got some attacks in nothing seemed to have done any real damage. And Yamato was stalling Kaido at best.
I'm not saying that the contributions of the others mean nothing but the one doing the heavy lifting in this fight is definitely Luffy. And he lost round 1 actually. Plus let's not forget that he also fought a huge number of mooks before he actually could get to Kaido. Not saying he took serious damage there either. But if Kaido having to deal what's considered small fry by him has to count in this argument then so has Luffy taking small fry to count.
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@Gol:
In regards to Hawkings failing to life up to not being worthy of a Supernova. I think his portrayal was good. He embodies a failed version of a supernova, just like Apoo, IMO. They gave up their dreams, took the easy route and lived under the protection of an emperor. Instead of challenging the status quo. I mean even Urouge challenged an Emperor and had some feats, even if they were not shown in the manga. In that regard, I think OnePiece wouldn't be as good as it is, if Oda decided to not show someone of the worst generation failing. In this case its Hawkings and Apoo, but it could easily haven been someone else.
So either they challenge an emperor or they suck ?
Kidd & Killer got lucky because they fought an emperor who refuses to kill his foes and that caused their survival
Teach would literally murder Kidd and take his DF with no worries
whomever wins more votes in popularity contest will get pushed by Oda. it's disgusting.