I admit I have no idea why her finishing move is called Jacuzzi Clutch though. Could it be that jacuzzi has another meaning I'm not aware of?
Apparently it can also mean "Great Whirlpool Clutch", which fits the idea of Robin using multiple arms sprouting up from the ground and pulling down.
@All:
Zoro vs King
Sanji vs Queen
Drake vs Apoo
Killer vs Hawkins
Inuarashi vs Jack
Nekomamushi vs Perospero
Raizo vs Fukurokuju
Law and Kid vs Big Mom
Team Momotaro vs KaidoStill a lot of fights left. And this is assuming the remaining Numbers don't get full fight chapters.
My thoughts:
Killer vs Hawkins: This may be the only real non-SH fight that has been established so far. It all fits: Killer is outgunned, but he has spirit and a score to settle with Hawkins, as the later betrayed Kid and Killer by cowardice.
Drake vs Apoo is not happening. There's literally no narrative gravitas between those characters except for Drake declaring he hates Apoo for no known reason. Besides, Apoo is the perfect match for Brook, who lacks a match up so far. Music vs Music. Musician vs. living instrument. If there's one character in the entire raid that can figure out how to counter Apoo's powers (which I bet are the source of his seemly invincibility), it's Brook. I can't believe how easily people have settled for a lackluster Apoo vs. Drake fight.
Inuarashi vs Jack: I don't think Jack is winning this one. I also don't think it will be a full chapter fight. Mostly off-panel moments. And, once Jack goes hybrid, Inu is toast.
Nekomamushi vs Perospero: Perospero being cornered is the moment I expect him to bring his siblings to the party. I'm sure he has just been having fun messing with everyone while holding that trump card. It's even foreshadowed in his words while heading "alone" to Onigashima: by the end, the victory will belong to the Big Mom Pirates.
Raizo vs Fukurokuju: Is anyone even remotely interested in this fight? We know they are rivals, but we never saw that rivalry, it lacks any impact. I know something will come out of it, and by the end of this fight it will have served some other purpose, but that's a fight that I expect to be resolved mostly off-panel.
Law and Kid vs Big Mom: This, IMO, is just stalling to keep all of those three away from the main action. I'm sure Big Mom is not falling for Law and Kid, as, again, it lacks any meaningful drive behind it. I feel this fight will make Kid step up his game as he gains better control of his Conqueror haki, and we may learn what Kid stole from BM, but that's it. I feel act 4 will have Big Mom stepping up big in the villain ladder, as her family returns and her real reasons for allying with Kaido are revealed.
Team Momotaro vs Kaido: While it will probably happen, I don't think it's as simple as that. The Nine Shadows will also factor in it. Either the team Momotaro starts the fight and get joined by the other Shadows later, or the opposite: it starts with the Nine Shadows and ends with the Momotaro team standing.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
All I know is Awakening for Who's Who makes far more sense than the idea of Black Maria vs Robin round 2. She's the only character that took two chapters to defeat, and it was in a much more decisive manner than what Sasaki and Who's Who got
Who's Who vs Jinbe also took two chapters. Only Sasaki/Franky was settled in one.
I already said why Black Maria is not defeated. Unlike Sasaki and Who's Who, I don't expect her to just stand up again and go berzerk or hide. Instead, she's actually the spider and took little damage from Robin. She standing up means she reveals her true hybrid and fights in a totally new way compared to her former self.
There are definitely some bits of weirdness in how Robin's fruit works though. Like how the justification for giant limbs is still lots of small ones blooming at once, but we can see in the chapter how the giant ones are treated the same as normal, individual ones for the purpose of sending damage back to the main body. Not to mention things like the giant body's face and hair, which wouldn't be possible to form in such detail if the normal size limbs weren't able to actually coalesce into a fully functional whole. Which raises the question of where damage to the wings and horns of Demonio would go back to.
I guess it depends how she arranged the larger limbs. If the smaller arms that make up the big one are stacked parallely to another, while Maria's weapon cuts them all horizontally, then the damage returned shoudn't be amplified. At least compared to the limbs being arranged randomly, which would result in cuts in several places with one cut.
To be honest I have a bigger problem with the Fishman Karate move than the Demon Form, which is just a big fancy Robin clone anyway. Because now we could ask ourselves why Robin didn't use it when she REALLY needed it, namely against Monet back in Punk Hazard.
Of course the answer is that Oda made it up recently, this flashback wasn't planned at all. It's not a big deal for me, but when he dares to retrofit new attacks then he shouldn't halfass it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Sibersk:
Apparently it can also mean "Great Whirlpool Clutch", which fits the idea of Robin using multiple arms sprouting up from the ground and pulling down.
Oh!
Yeah okay, that makes sense.
I guess it depends how she arranged the larger limbs. If the smaller arms that make up the big one are stacked parallely to another, while Maria's weapon cuts them all horizontally, then the damage returned shoudn't be amplified. At least compared to the limbs being arranged randomly, which would result in cuts in several places with one cut.
To be honest I have a bigger problem with the Fishman Karate move than the Demon Form, which is just a big fancy Robin clone anyway. Because now we could ask ourselves why Robin didn't use it when she REALLY needed it, namely against Monet back in Punk Hazard.
Of course the answer is that Oda made it up recently, this flashback wasn't planned at all. It's not a big deal for me, but when he dares to retrofit new attacks then he shouldn't halfass it.
But what arrangement of limbs makes a giant face with working eyes and mouth but also sends damage taken back only to Robin's head? And if you look, the slash to the giant arms cut deep. If they really were still made up of regular size limbs, the outer layer would have been severed entirely, with presumably disastrous results for Robin.
I mused on the issues created by the flashback thing in my own post, but when you get into it, it's really just kinda part and parcel with shonen storytelling and more specifically with the structure of the New World half of the series as a whole. The crew needs to get stronger after every story arc and pull out new moves in each new one, but they all have to all reflect the one training period and the same bag of tricks they arrived at Sabaody with. I'd go as far as saying it's to Oda's credit that after a decade mining the same training gap, this is the first major "wait, you could have been doing that all along?" moment that comes to mind.
Oda definitely could have done more to make it feel justified - like she was taught the basics during the timeskip but it didn't click well enough to use in a real battle until she got a bit more experience, or was a bit more desperate, or saw something an opponent was doing - but he's decided to say "this one's on you guys to suspend your disbelief" instead. I don't love it either, but I can live with it as part of the genre.
Robin sounds like Chopper in this chapter. Being a monster, demon or whatever for her nakama. They both didn't really let people in after their traumatic experience. Chopper even more before he ate his DF with his different color nose. Robin probably notices that Chopper is new to letting this amount of people close and admires him for that to the point of addressing how she's going forward like he would.
Oda has positioned Chopper's Mink peers beside him and Jack is currently fighting Choppers patient. He already gave Queen a slap for his actions. Jack deserves a slap too. Oda been saving Jack's hybrid mode and what does Inu have? Most of the Scabbards are getting taken out. I can see Raizo showing off more of his DF, but Inu would have to pull a rabbit out of his hat here.
Who's Who vs Jinbe also took two chapters. Only Sasaki/Franky was settled in one.
I already said why Black Maria is not defeated. Unlike Sasaki and Who's Who, I don't expect her to just stand up again and go berzerk or hide. Instead, she's actually the spider and took little damage from Robin. She standing up means she reveals her true hybrid and fights in a totally new way compared to her former self.
Oops, the Franky fight made me forget about Who's Who. I stand by what I said thought in terms of Black Maria having the most brutal defeat so far.
Even if she were to get back up, I definitely don't agree with your theory of her hiding her real body or whatever
New review featuring a clip from "The Devil Child Rises"
Haven't been a fan of the Momo aging up theory at all over the years. Trusting Oda to handle it well, but would still prefer Momo to earn his stripes as a child rather than be the literal avatar of a lost/stolen childhood.
But despite that, 18 years and 5 months later– we finally have a Robin fight. A good one.
Serious Batman Knightfall / Dark Knight Rises vibes from the Demonio panel-- Which is funny considering we just surpassed Batman in sales. Oda thinks he's clever.
(He is.)
Momo?
If such a transformation is good enough for Billy Batson/Shazam! (Captain Marvel-DC), maybe it can work for Momo.
But what arrangement of limbs makes a giant face with working eyes and mouth but also sends damage taken back only to Robin's head? And if you look, the slash to the giant arms cut deep. If they really were still made up of regular size limbs, the outer layer would have been severed entirely, with presumably disastrous results for Robin.
Yes. At this point, I really believe Robin can just sprout limbs or other body parts of a larger size.
After all, her powers are still "plant-based", and plants grow in size. It's a stretch, but only because sprouting body parts as if they were flowers has always been a stretch.
As Crocodile said, devil fruit powers grow stronger the more you train them: Robin has pushed hana-hana to a new level. It makes sense to me.
NOT EVEN CLOSE, SIR!
Eh, Denjiro literally worked for Orochi, and had his full, complete trust, but never made a move either until Kinemon and co. came back. Because they both know that at the end of the day, nothing's going to actually change in the long term so long as Kaido is still there.
I wasn't too happy with that either, but at least Denjiro was doing his bit as the Witching Hour Boy.
Just seems weird to me that everyone spent twenty years hanging around waiting for "The Plan" to kick in, even if they couldn't do anything to Kaido himself, they could've used that time to weaken his forces, especially as they had a ninja with an instant death touch.
But I get that that's a Me problem, wanting every little thing explained rather than a problem with the series itself.
So, we are four chapters away from the Volume's end.
It's time to speculate end of Act 3 again. Yeah, I've been saying it would happen near every volume end/start since… Volume 99? 98? Lol. But it will happen, be sure of it.
If we have another pause in the story I really hope we cut to Vegapunk, even if it's just his sillouete. He can explain the marines new weapon and, as a perfect hook, comment on his artificial fruit. Imagine him saying: "Yes, that was a failure because it can't… " cut to adult Momo flying to Onigashima
Yes. At this point, I really believe Robin can just sprout limbs or other body parts of a larger size.
After all, her powers are still "plant-based", and plants grow in size. It's a stretch, but only because sprouting body parts as if they were flowers has always been a stretch.As Crocodile said, devil fruit powers grow stronger the more you train them: Robin has pushed hana-hana to a new level. It makes sense to me.
It's an interesting topic because even in this chapter Oda draws the big ones starting out as small ones as they spawn in.
But they obviously fuse seamlessly at some point in the process, as evidenced by the level of detail on the giant face and the ways damage to them is represented on her main body. It's an interesting choice on Oda's part, but I like the flavour it adds. And it scales logically toward combining the small limbs into less human shapes, like the wings and horns.
If the live action version gets this far, the blooming of giant limbs has the potential to be CGI'd up as a truly unholy transmuting of flesh, now that I think about it.
Loved the chapter, it was the first fight of Robin, where she really got pushed to her limit, Oda also didn't shy away showing a a physical brawl between two female fighters. Robin was never physical hit by Maria but her clone was and therefore she herself got beaten up.
Love the possibility of Momo becoming an adult with a personality of a child. So nothing would change, except he is a fully grown man child, with maybe a bit more physical power but lacking the fighting experience which is needed to be of use against Kaido.
If Momo should become an adult, he may find his way to Tenguyama and claim his fathers sword, Ame no Habakiri and fight against Orochi, finally beheading him for good. This might free up Denjiro and help out in some other fights, or maybe Denjiro at this point is already struggling against Orochi as he is not able to figure out how to kill him for good.
My predictions for the next couple of chapters, kinda obvious whats going to happen from here on out.
First we will get the conclusion of the other fights which were set up, Killer, Nekomamushi, Kawamatsu, Izou, Denjiro? and Raizo, the rest of the Straw Hats, so Sanji and Zoro. Meanwhile all the other fighters who won their respective fights will gather somewhere on Onigashima. Meanwhile Kaido was able to overwhelm Yamato, Luffy at this point is still not back at Onigashima, he was going with Momo to get Ame no Habakiri from Tenguyama. Kaido will be hold at bay by all the other fighters. Law and Kid manage to hold Big Mom and bay. After that we might get finish Act 3 with Luffy and adult Momo arriving at Onigashima. Yamato was tended by Marco and is again ready to fight again against his/her father.
Finally the legend of Momotaro begins.
So the flying five are all done with zero awakening of their powers ~!
therefore i'm predicting a similar outcome to the lead performers
whatever, guess you don't feel disappointment when u'r used to it.
So the flying five are all done with zero awakening of their powers ~!
therefore i'm predicting a similar outcome to the lead performers
whatever, guess you don't feel disappointment when u'r used to it.
It would've been more disappointing if only Black Maria awakened in her fight while the rest didn't.
So nobody is thinking Robin’s demon form is a Conquerer’s haki thing? Just armament?
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
It's an interesting topic because even in this chapter Oda draws the big ones starting out as small ones as they spawn in.
https://i.imgur.com/m00bqOx.png
But they obviously fuse seamlessly at some point in the process, as evidenced by the level of detail on the giant face and the ways damage to them is represented on her main body.
Maybe that could be explained just like daisies are "flowers" that are actually made up of hundreds of tiny flowers. Anyway, I'm with you in saying that this evolution of Robin's power doesn't bother me.
NOT EVEN CLOSE, SIR!
@Zik:
Are you referring to Zoro? Other than that we haven't seen conqueror's haki create a new form/transformation.
Feels like Oda wants to nake a 4th category in haki sometimes.
yeah something akin to Zoro as that’s the most apt comparison of some unexplained thing (though I guess Maria didn’t mention anything about an aura and unlike Zoro Robin’s form could just be her transforming her limbs in the shape of demon parts, which seem silly other than for visual flair)
So the flying five are all done with zero awakening of their powers ~!
therefore i'm predicting a similar outcome to the lead performers
whatever, guess you don't feel disappointment when u'r used to it.
Considering the only example of an awakened zoan were the prison guards from Impel Down, I don't think the avarage reader would care if any Zoan that pops up can do the same.
@Zik:
It would've been more disappointing if only Black Maria awakened in her fight while the rest didn't.
The squad was treated poorly imo
all i ask for is a proper respect be given to the lead performers
I would be pissed if they gets taken down by the likes of Sanji or Inu, Because that would never happen to the sweet commanders for example, The beast pirates should be at least equal to mama's brats and not lower in everything. such disappointment.
I would advise a nice dose of chill pill, because you're about to be disappointed. Queen and King are about to be taken out by Sanji and Zoro for sure, it's just a matter of waiting 2-3 months. Just breathe slowly as it happens. It'll be over soon.
Whenever I see Chriors Flambé avatar and signature, it just brings a big smile to my face 
I want the Big Mom pirates to arrive and take part in the battle just so someone can kick her big, ballooney butt already lol
The squad was treated poorly imo
all i ask for is a proper respect be given to the lead performers
I would be pissed if they gets taken down by the likes of Sanji or Inu, Because that would never happen to the sweet commanders for example, The beast pirates should be at least equal to mama's brats and not lower in everything. such disappointment.
This idea that the sweet commanders are somehow better than the lead performers is so weird to me. I guess it's just cuz their arc was all escape from the yonkou while the Beast Pirates have been built up to be defeated.
The way I see it, outside of Katakuri (and maybe Peros) the rest of those guys wouldn't stand a chance against Queen and Jack.
The sweet commanders (minus the obvious) all feel Sasaki level to me.
If any future arc involves beating the BM pirates, the strawhats will curb stomp them.
The squad was treated poorly imo
all i ask for is a proper respect be given to the lead performers
I would be pissed if they gets taken down by the likes of Sanji or Inu, Because that would never happen to the sweet commanders for example, The beast pirates should be at least equal to mama's brats and not lower in everything. such disappointment.
How is Queen going down then if not through Sanji, who is fighting him 1v1 right now lol
The order in which the Tobiroppo went down is also my order for how satisfying their fights were. This last one was awesome and a much needed moment for Robin.
I personally wasn't expecting the Tobiroppo to have awakened fruits - it's an element that seems ripe to add flavor to the All-Star fights coming up.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I would be pissed if they gets taken down by the likes of Sanji or Inu, Because that would never happen to the sweet commanders for example, The beast pirates should be at least equal to mama's brats and not lower in everything. such disappointment.
How could the Straw Hats be considered a challenge to the Beasts Pirates, and ultimately the title of Pirate King's crew, if Luffy's "wings" were not on par with Kaido's? BM's commanders got to take on Luffy in WCI because that's the level Luffy was at in that arc. Now we've progressed in the story and it's time for Luffy to level up and for his wings to move up to the level he was on before. It has nothing to do with how strong BM's commanders are compared to Kaido's.
Spoiler:
@Zik:
This idea that the sweet commanders are somehow better than the lead performers is so weird to me. I guess it's just cuz their arc was all escape from the yonkou while the Beast Pirates have been built up to be defeated.
The way I see it, outside of Katakuri (and maybe Peros) the rest of those guys wouldn't stand a chance against Queen and Jack.
The sweet commanders (minus the obvious) all feel Sasaki level to me.
If any future arc involves beating the BM pirates, the strawhats will curb stomp them.
Then you should seriously examine what makes you think that since that impression is entirely false.
Then you should seriously examine what makes you think that since that impression is entirely false.
The story does.
And no, it being false is just your opinion.
@Zik:
The story does.
And no, it being false is just your opinion.
The story had Cracker match Luffy for 16 hours, and in the end he was finally beaten by his own arrogance.
The story had many Big Mom Pirates being actual Haki users in addition to having dangerous abilities, the perceived second strongest of the F6 needed to risk mutual destruction to pierce Shogun, something Dressrosa officers did with ease.
The story had Oven getting kicked by Sanji, shot by Bege, pierced by several lasers by Ichiji, and he still continued on.
Meanwhile Sasaki was nearly knocked out by a Gaon Cannon, something those previously mentioned Dressrosa officers even took, and then disposed of by one laser. Same Oven had the entire Sun Pirates at his mercy.
The same Brook and Chopper who are easily disposing of Beast Pirates combatants while joking around were completely helpless in front of Perospero, who is technically the equivalent of the Tobi Roppo.
The list goes on and on, your impression has nothing to do with the story.
The story had Cracker match Luffy for 16 hours, and in the end he was finally beaten by his own arrogance.
Pretty sure Ulti could've done all that had the strawhats not specifically strategized for Luffy to not waste energy on anybody but Kaido.
Instead it took Big Mom to take her down.
Same with thinking the officers are not haki users. That's ignoring whats actually in the story.
I don't see the point of even bringing up Chopper or Brook as if they've defeated any Tobi Roppo.
@Zik:
This idea that the sweet commanders are somehow better than the lead performers is so weird to me. I guess it's just cuz their arc was all escape from the yonkou while the Beast Pirates have been built up to be defeated.
The way I see it, outside of Katakuri (and maybe Peros) the rest of those guys wouldn't stand a chance against Queen and Jack.
The sweet commanders (minus the obvious) all feel Sasaki level to me.
If any future arc involves beating the BM pirates, the strawhats will curb stomp them.
nah bro
Luffy with tons of assistance barely defeated 2 sweet commanders and would've died if he was on his own
What logic makes you think Luffy's underlings could match against the sweet commanders ?
The arc is not done yet, but up so far the BM pirates are stronger which i hope they don't eventually
I still have little hope remains that Oda will not be predictable and proves me wrong.
How is Queen going down then if not through Sanji, who is fighting him 1v1 right now lol
key word : assistance . I don't mind if he lands the final blow but he's simply not worthy of Queen 1vs1
not after he failed to get rid of page one with gear on. it will be straight up embarrassing.
@Kaido:
How could the Straw Hats be considered a challenge to the Beasts Pirates, and ultimately the title of Pirate King's crew, if Luffy's "wings" were not on par with Kaido's? BM's commanders got to take on Luffy in WCI because that's the level Luffy was at in that arc. Now we've progressed in the story and it's time for Luffy to level up and for his wings to move up to the level he was on before. It has nothing to do with how strong BM's commanders are compared to Kaido's.
The difference is bud those guys ( Yonko and their commanders ) have been pirates for decades
they have the right to be superior especially if they're known to dominate the strongest sea in the world, not even the world government dares to expand their rulership there instead they submit and deals with them in disguise.
key word : assistance . I don't mind if he lands the final blow but he's simply not worthy of Queen 1vs1
not after he failed to get rid of page one with gear on. it will be straight up embarrassing.
Again, he's fighting him 1v1 right now, so I guess Oda disagrees with you on him not being worthy lol
And lol at bringing up his brief clash with Page One? It was over two weeks since they last fought, was he just supposed to magically stay gone the entire arc?
nah bro
Yes bro
Luffy with tons of assistance barely defeated 2 sweet commanders and would've died if he was on his own
You're saying all of this without context which is why its wrong.
Only person Luffy set out to beat was Katakuri.
That Luffy may have got jumped if he wanted to stay and fight and cuz all of the strawhats weren't there is irrelevant.
What logic makes you think Luffy's underlings could match against the sweet commanders ?
They've all gotten stronger since Dressrosa.
The arc is not done yet, but up so far the BM pirates are stronger which i hope they don't eventually
Don't see it based on the two different arcs and situations but I know you ppl love your battle scaling.
@Zik:
Pretty sure Ulti could've done all that had the strawhats not specifically strategized for Luffy to not waste energy on anybody but Kaido.
Instead it took Big Mom to take her down.
Same with thinking the officers are not haki users. That's ignoring whats actually in the story.
I don't see the point of even bringing up Chopper or Brook as if they've defeated any Tobi Roppo.
Pretty sure based on what? What has Ulti done to justify that?
Nami took her down. She also passed out against Yamato.
Panels of all of them using Haki please.
Brook has been making fun of them, you are right.
Pretty sure based on what? What has Ulti done to justify that?
Based on how much damage she took from Big Mom and her overall resilience displayed.
Nami took her down.
After BM softened her up and she did it with Big Mom's homie that was maxe from part of her soul which is why its stronger than most homies.
She also passed out against Yamato.
I'd rank Yamato as stronger than the sweet commanders as well (minus Katakuri)
Panels of all of them using Haki please.
Don't need it.
Ulti, Who's Who, Jack, etc. were enough.
Brook has been making fun of them, you are right.
I'm right about Brook and Chopper not even fighting any of the Beast pirate officers one on one let alone beating them but if you're talking about what Brook has said, sure he made fun of them. He made fun of the sweet commanders too.
@Zik:
Based on how much damage she took from Big Mom and her overall resilience displayed.
After BM softened her up and she did it with Big Mom's homie that was maxe from part of her soul which is why its stronger than most homies.
I'd rank Yamato as stronger than the sweet commanders as well (minus Katakuri)
Don't need it.
Ulti, Who's Who, Jack, etc. were enough.
I'm right about Brook and Chopper not even fighting any of the Beast pirate officers one on one let alone beating them but if you're talking about what Brook has said, sure he made fun of them. He made fun of the sweet commanders too.
How much was it?
What does resilience have to do with specific powers?
Sure, still shows you don´t need BM power to bring her down. Nami might have taken a few more hits, irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Then you are tripping.
For what were they enough?
Obviously you are right, they have not fought yet.
Still Brook oneshotted a Number without any problems, the equivalent of BM combatants.
Which SC did he make fun of?
The same Brook and Chopper who are easily disposing of Beast Pirates combatants while joking around were completely helpless in front of Perospero, who is technically the equivalent of the Tobi Roppo.
I'm really not sure what comparison you're trying to make here as neither of those two characters beat a Tobiroppo. They had plenty of bravado when decimating Big Mom's forces prior to the Perospero encounter. And that's not even mentioning Brook's Treasure Room scene.
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The difference is bud those guys ( Yonko and their commanders ) have been pirates for decades
they have the right to be superior especially if they're known to dominate the strongest sea in the world, not even the world government dares to expand their rulership there instead they submit and deals with them in disguise.
Luffy and co. don't care bro
Spoiler:
@Kaido:
I'm really not sure what comparison you're trying to make here as neither of those two characters beat a Tobiroppo. They had plenty of bravado when decimating Big Mom's forces prior to the Perospero encounter. And that's not even mentioning Brook's Treasure Room scene.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Luffy and co. don't care bro
No, Brook at least beat a number. What combatants did he beat in WCI? Chopper was matched against Queen so far after taking care of the virus, in WCI he basically did nothing.
Brook took care of the homie soldiers because that´s literally his ability, being the only one having a counter against them.
He easily disposed of a number and several combatants while playing around in Wa No already.
So i don´t know where the claim that the Beast Pirates are so much better comes from.
How much was it?
A lot
What does resilience have to do with specific powers?
Why do you think I'm talking about specific powers?
I was just talking about Ulti being able to do w/e the sweet commanders did. Specifically you mentioning Cracker fighting Luffy.
Sure, still shows you don´t need BM power to bring her down. Nami might have taken a few more hits, irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
But Nami did use Big Mom's power (in conjunction with her climatact) to bring down Ulti.
Then you are tripping.
No. I'm perfectly balanced.
For what were they enough?
We're talking about them using haki, did you forget?
Obviously you are right, they have not fought yet.
Still Brook oneshotted a Number without any problems, the equivalent of BM combatants.
Which SC did he make fun of?
So what? We're talking about yonkou commanders/officers. Not the numbers and since when are they the equivalent of anything? When was that ststed in the story? Seems like you're just making things up to talk about Brook.
@Zik:
You're saying all of this without context which is why its wrong.
Only person Luffy set out to beat was Katakuri.
Nami helped him significantly against Cracker
He gassed out and ran away while holding his opponent's sister hostage against Kata ( such a manly gallant act form the future pirate king )
Again, he's fighting him 1v1 right now, so I guess Oda disagrees with you on him not being worthy lol
And lol at bringing up his brief clash with Page One? It was over two weeks since they last fought, was he just supposed to magically stay gone the entire arc?
Oda makes a lot of mistakes such as making post time skip Luffy not enough to beat a warlord 1vs1
Cracker couldn't attend the Tea party, Page one however attended the festival unscratched
meaning Sanji's attacks were too soft despite the upgrade and now suddenly he's enough for a calamity? I don't buy it and I surely can criticize it when it happens for obvious reasons.
No, Brook at least beat a number. What combatants did he beat in WCI? Chopper was matched against Queen so far after taking care of the virus, in WCI he basically did nothing.
Brook took care of the homie soldiers because that´s literally his ability, being the only one having a counter against them.
He easily disposed of a number and several combatants while playing around in Wa No already.So i don´t know where the claim that the Beast Pirates are so much better comes from.
Brook is seen taking down BM combatants that aren't homies in Chapter 849 and 876. Not to mention standing against Big Mom in Chapter 851. And obviously he is stronger now.
Chopper doing nothing in WCI is more of a testament to how WCI handled him rather than any real discrepancy in his ability. Not to mention Perospero's powers are wildly different compared to Queen's.
Ultimately, the question is, would Robin, Franky, and Jinbe (who actually fully took on and beat Tobiroppo) be able to challenge and take down Big Mom's stronger child officers (who seem roughly parallel to the Tobiroppo). And I say sure, why wouldn't they? Brook and Chopper aren't included in that so I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding them.
And I personally don't agree with the claim that the Beasts Pirates are better than BM Pirates, that is nonsense. Clearly they are roughly equal; maybe you could make the case that Kaido is slightly stronger individually while Big Mom has the stronger subordinates, but it would only be by a slim margin.
Nami helped him significantly against Cracker
LOL okay.
He gassed out and ran away while holding his opponent's sister hostage against Kata ( such a manly gallant act form the future pirate king )
Yes cuz pirates are known for their manly gallant acts. Especially Roger.
Oda makes a lot of mistakes such as making post time skip Luffy not enough to beat a warlord 1vs1
I think your problem is you think all warlords are equal in strength.
Never been stated in the story or implied. The likes of Mihawk, Kuma, Doffy, and Blackbeard clearly differ despite being on the higher end of the spectrum.
@Zik:
A lot
Why do you think I'm talking about specific powers?
I was just talking about Ulti being able to do w/e the sweet commanders did. Specifically you mentioning Cracker fighting Luffy.
But Nami did use Big Mom's power (in conjunction with her climatact) to bring down Ulti.
No. I'm perfectly balanced.
We're talking about them using haki, did you forget?
So what? We're talking about yonkou commanders/officers. Not the numbers and since when are they the equivalent of anything? When was that ststed in the story? Seems like you're just making things up to talk about Brook.
Quantify it.
Cracker fought Luffy for 16 hours.
Proof to me Ulti could do the same, a straightforward request.
And not your fantasies, but manga panels.
In conjunction with her own, that´s the key.
Does not seem like it.
And i am asking for what were they enough?
How is three out of hundreds of Beast Pirates using Haki enough?
Numbers are the combatants of the Beast Pirates, the equivalent of guys like Tamago or Pekoms.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
Brook is seen taking down BM combatants that aren't homies in Chapter 849 and 876. Not to mention standing against Big Mom in Chapter 851. And obviously he is stronger now.
Chopper doing nothing in WCI is more of a testament to how WCI handled him rather than any real discrepancy in his ability. Not to mention Perospero's powers are wildly different compared to Queen's.
Ultimately, the question is, would Robin, Franky, and Jinbe (who actually fully took on and beat Tobiroppo) be able to challenge and take down Big Mom's stronger child officers (who seem roughly parallel to the Tobiroppo). And I say sure, why wouldn't they? Brook and Chopper aren't included in that so I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding them.
And I personally don't agree with the claim that the Beasts Pirates are better than BM Pirates, that is nonsense. Clearly they are roughly equal; maybe you could make the case that Kaido is slightly stronger individually while Big Mom has the stronger subordinates, but it would only be by a slim margin.
Do you know their name? I doubt it. Why is Brook stronger now? Proof for that please.
849 had random mook who nobody knows and Oda did not bother to introduce. 876 had one additional guy to chess soldiers, and both Brook and Chopper were huffing and puffing.
Why is Chopper doing nothing in WCI and doing nothing here regarded differently?
When were Queen and Perospero compared in their level?
There is a reason that despite his experience, his bounty and his power Perospero still is not considered a sweet commander.
And i have not claimed otherwise. I can even see Brook beating a combatant after a heavy fight, something that, except for Luffy, had no time and purpose in WCI.
Just refuting the claim that Beast Pirates are so much better for some reason, despite Brook and Chopper getting wrecked quickly, yet here Brook is joking around oneshotting the equivalents of combatants and ministers.
Quantify it.
LOL If Oda doesn't why should I?
You seem to badly want a power scaling discussion in some form. Good luck getting that.
Cracker fought Luffy for 16 hours.
"Fought" is pushing it lol.
Proof to me Ulti could do the same, a straightforward request.
And not your fantasies, but manga panels.
Its common sense. I cant make you have it.
In conjunction with her own, that´s the key.
You are pretending as if the climatact is some sort of weapon that depends on the user's strength or something.
It does not. Anybody can use it to form a storm cloud that shoots lightning. The only reason the climatact was able to become a more powerful weapon is cuz of Big Mom.
The main reason Ulti loss is cuz of Big Mom.
Does not seem like it.
I would definitely say the same of you. Your judgement is proving to be incredibly questionable. No reason for me to pay any mind to who you think is tripping.
And i am asking for what were they enough?
I still don't think you understood what I said.
I said those characters were enough to see that the group are haki users.
So your question doesn't make sense unless you forgot what we were talking about.
How is three out of hundreds of Beast Pirates using Haki enough?
We are not talking about hundreds of beast pirates though. We never were.
We're talking about the top officers/commanders. The tobi roppo, Jack, Queen, and King.
Now it really seems like you've forgotten what the topic is. Its strange.
Numbers are the combatants of the Beast Pirates, the equivalent of guys like Tamago or Pekoms.
So what?
I wasn't talking about them either.
@Zik:
LOL If Oda doesn't why should I?
You seem to badly want a power scaling discussion in some form. Good luck getting that.
"Fought" is pushing it lol.
Its common sense. I cant make you have it.
You are pretending as if the climatact is some sort of weapon that depends on the user's strength or something.
It does not. Anybody can use it to form a storm cloud that shoots lightning. The only reason the climatact was able to become a more powerful weapon is cuz of Big Mom.
The main reason Ulti loss is cuz of Big Mom.
I would definitely say the same of you. Your judgement is proving to be incredibly questionable. No reason for me to pay any mind to who you think is tripping.
I still don't think you understood what I said.
I said those characters were enough to see that the group are haki users.
So your question doesn't make sense unless you forgot what we were talking about.
We are not talking about hundreds of beast pirates though. We never were.
We're talking about the top officers/commanders. The tobi roppo, Jack, Queen, and King.
Now it really seems like you've forgotten what the topic is. Its strange.
So what?
I wasn't talking about them either.
I don´t want a discussion at all, i just want your claim substantiated, the claim that you seem to hold without any reason for it.
Not that hard.
These claims for example:
@Zik:
This idea that the sweet commanders are somehow better than the lead performers is so weird to me. I guess it's just cuz their arc was all escape from the yonkou while the Beast Pirates have been built up to be defeated.
The way I see it, outside of Katakuri (and maybe Peros) the rest of those guys wouldn't stand a chance against Queen and Jack.
The sweet commanders (minus the obvious) all feel Sasaki level to me.
If any future arc involves beating the BM pirates, the strawhats will curb stomp them.
The story tells us they fought.
!
Stop trying to deflect, talking about common sense.
You said she can, it has to be based on something.
If it´s your fantasy, just say so, i won´t mind.
Yes, and Nami´s usage of it in combination with her weather knowledge has always been treated as irrelevant.
Only that it hasn´t.
My dude, you claimed something, i asked for proof, and then you started talking about something else, and once again i asked for proof.
So yes, give me anything to substantiate the views you seem to hold.
"The group are haki users", ehm what?
Since when is one character of a group having an ability automatically applies to every character in that group?
Makes no sense whatsoever.
I am very clear about the topic, thank you.
Half of the F6 did not show Haki, which i pointed out is a stark contrast to the Big Mom Pirates, who had even low level officers, literally weakest kids out of nearly hundred kids, had use Armament Haki.
So once again, by what metric is having three guys using Haki "enough"?
Last i checked, all the characters mentioned are part of the BM Pirates, who you claimed would get curbstomped, so yes, you were talking about them.
I don´t want a discussion at all
Ok then no need to quantify it then. It certainly is not the main point.
the claim that you seem to hold without any reason for it.
If you're serious about this part then you haven't been paying attention.
I'd suggest you just reread my posts before I bother to reply again.
The story tells us they fought.
Did you misunderstand my sarcastic statement about you stating they fought for multiple hours?
Or did you not remember what was shown of the fight?
Stop trying to deflect, talking about common sense.
Common sense is not a deflection.
You said she can, it has to be based on something.
Already did say but it's based on Ulti's showing in the story. Again common sense.
Yes, and Nami´s usage of it in combination with her weather knowledge has always been treated as irrelevant.
Only that it hasn´t.
We're not talking about Nami's knowledge of weather though.
You cant have it both ways. You're pretending like the climatact is a reflection of Nami's power as a fighter when its a tool that was ineffective before until through means of Big Mom it became a more powerful weapon.
Nami landing the finishing blow on Ulti has nothing to do with her knowledge of weather.
But I get you'll keep pretending like it is.
My dude, you claimed something, i asked for proof, and then you started talking about something else, and once again i asked for proof.
So yes, give me anything to substantiate the views you seem to hold.
This is one of those reread my replies questions cuz I know I did this already.
Think you just couldn't accept it.
"The group are haki users", ehm what?
The group consisting of individual members are haki users. What is seriously hard to comprehend about that?
Since when is one character of a group having an ability automatically applies to every character in that group?
We're not talking about one character though.
Makes no sense whatsoever.
If you don't understand, sure.
I am very clear about the topic, thank you.
Half of the F6 did not show Haki, which i pointed out is a stark contrast to the Big Mom Pirates, who had even low level officers, literally weakest kids out of nearly hundred kids, had use Armament Haki.
The rest still don't matter. I'm talking about commander to commander.
Saying a kid used haki is irrelevant.
So once again, by what metric is having three guys using Haki "enough"?
You seriously still don't understand the statement if this is still the question. I explained it more than one way and you seem to still not get it.
Last i checked, all the characters mentioned are part of the BM Pirates, who you claimed would get curbstomped, so yes, you were talking about them.
The commanders. That's who I'm talking about.
Not Pekoms.
You managed to quote the post. Identify the topic of my post and still bring up characters that don't matter when it comes to defeating BM's commanders.
Numbers are the combatants of the Beast Pirates, the equivalent of guys like Tamago or Pekoms.
While Pekoms, Tamago and co. have a brain to use and make tactics, the Numbers seem to be lacking that, and are only good for their raw strength.
Comparing titles is the most useless thing to do… comparison per se is useless...
Best example, why title comparison is useless, would be Garp. While he's a Vice Admiral, we all know that no other Vice Admiral is near his level.
And while we know why he's just a Vice Admiral, and that he's above that title... it doesn't matter... because his title is... Vice Admiral.
Zoro is also a combatant... doesn't mean you can compare him to Pekoms, Tamago, the Numbers or any other people with that same title...
That's why title comparison is the most useless comparison in all the other bullshit comparisons...
I could make more example for other titles, but I don't want to waste my time with that... so...
