@RoboBlue:
I guess you weren't here to see our coverage of the 2016 election but this is still a pretty weird assumption to make.
Putin was only able to attempt to influence the election because it was so close (because so many people loathed Hillary and distrust of the media was at a then-all time high), but the reality is as far as we know Comey had a larger and more direct impact on the results than Putin did.
That could change as the connections between Russia and the Trump campaign are further investigated but I feel pretty confident in saying that Trump winning is almost entirely America's fault, for a lot of reasons.
Is it? You don't seem to get what their role was at all.
You know the factors but you don't get how awful they all are or that they all deserve the blame here. Fuck Trump. Fuck Putin. Fuck Comey. Fuck the media. And fuck everyone who didn't vote for Hillary.
If he gave Russia anything that helped in their bullshit in trying to steal the election? Fuck Edward Snowden too.
@RoboBlue:
So people who disagree with Bush administration policies are racist because… Obama existed?
They are when they didn't care about it until Obama was elected.
@RoboBlue:
And Snowden allegedly changing his stance on leaking stuff is relevant because…?
Because it shows he is full of shit.
@RoboBlue:
I understand how, on paper, this sounds like a huge disaster but in reality it hasn't had any noticeable effect on American citizens. Why should they care?
Because again, if the files he stole helped Russia in their undermining of the the 2016 election or helped them cause the deaths of US soldiers, past, present and future, or caused any damage to the free world not just the USA? Americans would be fully in the right for calling for his head.
Him being a Russian asset right now is enough to call for his head. You might not care about about these things like American lives or you can only understand on paper but Jesus Christ understand he is a threat to our national security. Everyone should care. And they will if Biden would make such an awful mistake in letting him go without any punishment here. You can be sure your dumb ideas of Snowden you got from Greenwald will slow but probably surely turn into "how could Biden put us at risk???!" if he did that because again fuck the media and their narratives.
Which is why informed American should try to help other Americans understand why this is bad. I am trying here but you know, obviously there are lost causes. About 30-40% of American votes will never ever be reachable.
@RoboBlue:
Was Snowden a libertarian?
Ask him that at the trial he is too much of a coward to go there.
@RoboBlue:
Is there a present day basis for this? Because you're saying "he believes this" in present tense as if he's currently anti-whistleblower. Not that I have any knowledge of him ever having been anti-whistleblower, but "Snowden is a hypocrite who hates whistleblowers" is not a claim I expected anyone to make.
Here is the link: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/3/
And you should not be asking me if he believes it now, you should be asking why he changed his opinion. Hint his new boss was an uppity black man.
@RoboBlue:
Do you think I'm a right-wing libertarian?
No. I think you're misinformed. And you will defend them because of that. You ever wonder why the Ron Paul to Bernie Sanders slide exists? Because of shit like this.
@RoboBlue:
I don't even think it's possible to ban "unintentionally making people you don't like famous".
Well it should be.
Sure Ed agrees too. Do you think he likes being in some location he can never leave under Russian eyes 24/7 with no freedom while Glenn is on Brazilian beaches drinking martinis and eyeing up the boys? Living off alllllll the fame Ed made him?
@RoboBlue:
PRISM is the entire reason people like and support Snowden.
Which is 10% of what he did. So it's not worth getting into now.
@RoboBlue:
At some point you have to concede that maybe the collateral damage was worth it.
10% being good does not changed the other 90% was bad and not worth it. Fuck ends justify the means grimdark bullshit. There are actual lives at stake and might have been lost already all for something people don't give a fuck about.
@RoboBlue:
Honestly I'm really not that knowledgeable about Greenwald.
Not shocking since you're pretty unknowledgeable of this whole Snowden event. Short version for you, he is a crazy person and right-wing libertarian.
@RoboBlue:
I've heard the name a bunch of times and based on my prior knowledge and some basic Googling of him he really doesn't seem like a Bush fan?
He supported Bush's wars. And you really should learn who he is. He is a nobody yes, but not understanding his role as RP guy for Snowden shows how clueless you are about these events.
@RoboBlue:
Her sentence was commuted after seven years.
Her sentence was made in 2013 to be clear. And again, shows more the issues of being a minority in the prison system. And proves the point Snowden would be fine by the way.
@RoboBlue:
First… American prison is not fine for white cis people, especially not political prisoners.
He is a high level prisoner. And a white cisgender person. He will be a proud brave prisoner martyr for the cause in there. If he had a backbone of course.
@RoboBlue:
Second, the fact that Obama, who you seem to feel was completely justified in leaving a trans woman in jail for seven years purely to satisfy his cis white male conservative political allies, happens to be black, has no relevance to a situation where an NSA employee broke the law in an attempt to tear down a Bush-era mass surveillance program.
Yeah sure that's why he left her in there and commuted her on his way out. And once again, he didn't mind it at all when Bush was in charge.
@RoboBlue:
As far as I'm aware Snowden has never once said anything about Obama's race being relevant to any of his political views or his actions, and it's just weird to assume otherwise.
It's always weird to assume white people are racist, isn't it?
@RoboBlue:
Third, I don't idolize Snowden, you just haven't convinced me that he's so awful that he doesn't deserve a pardon.
National security and the lives of the free world being at stake is not good enough for you. All because of some tiny good Snowden did years ago to stick it to the black man in charge for once. You idolize his types.
@RoboBlue:
Fourth, no, people don't make movies about Snowden because they're racist.
You're right. They are made because of racism AND sexism.
@RoboBlue:
The victim of our predominately white cis leaders and also that one black one who could have let her out at any time but didn't.
But he did. lol And way to understate Obama with the white cis leaders. What are you like Ed and Glenn here and think VP's have the power to pardon? They seem to think Harris can pardon people which again, please defend Snowden as an idiot. It's gonna be your best defense.
@RoboBlue:
If that doesn't clarify the fact that none of this was about Obama's race, I don't know what will.
Everything from the right-wing since Obama became president is about him being black.
@RoboBlue:
Being the most wanted political prisoner in the American prison system was not a reasonable option.
Yes it was.
@RoboBlue:
Just look at how a more recent "most hated and feared by the people in power" political figure was treated: Jeffrey Epstein.
Jesus Christ. If you don't want people to think of you as a right-wing libertarian/crazy person. Never ever say that man's name again in any topic. Because boy, I can never ever ever ever ever take you seriously again after this post.
@RoboBlue:
He "committed suicide" in the most North Korea-esque way possible.
He showed all the signs of someone who was about to commit suicide. And then he did. If you think otherwise please seek help and learn about how mental health works. This topic is too much for you with the words you just said to me. I am seriously not being snarky or mean here. I can't help you if you won't help yourself.
@RoboBlue:
Sure he was guilty as hell but the fact remains that the justice system will step aside and allow you to be murdered in prison if someone wants it badly enough.
See the above response.
@RoboBlue:
Yes, Snowden should ideally have stood trial. Assange should also have stood trial.
Nothing is stopping them right now.
@RoboBlue:
Neither of their possible sentences should have included execution or torture and until those things can be firmly taken off the table I don't really blame either of them for fleeing from a vengeful and immoral US government.
I agree there on them not being executed or tortured as I don't believe in them but they did the crimes they have to do the time. And fleeing is just them being cowards. You can blame them and should.
@RoboBlue:
Pretty sure it was. China wouldn't take him.
Why didn't he go to Ecuador to begin with? And China has never said anything official on him. They never would. Going to Russia was clearly Glenn's dumb fucking idea. Agaian Ed is going to agree with me about how awful he is now giving hindsight.
@RoboBlue:
And so are you. Except… I'm excusing a guy who stole a bunch of secret papers and used them to expose treason by our intelligence agencies and you're excusing one of the greatest crimes against American citizens in all of US history because… at the time the president was black?
The only one excusing treason is you. Because you still think PRISM is what matters here. And yes it only matters to Ed when the president was black. Great role model you have here. Stop fucking downplaying and excusing the files he stole. It's showing how you can't at all have a good faith conversation on this.
@RoboBlue:
Racism is not the only thing wrong with our prison system.
It's a major thing wrong with our prison system.
@RoboBlue:
You can't say "oh he's a white guy, he'll be fine" because facts, logic and common sense are all against you.
Says the person who believes in conspiracy theories.
@RoboBlue:
It's to hold our prisoners of war and potentially other inconvenient people indefinitely.
Obama released 90% of them. It's only home to people we know have done terrorism crimes. And we don't want them in the US.
@RoboBlue:
You can't just blatantly lie and hand-wave away the literally hundreds of times I've called out Trump on COVID (thousands of times if you include all of the Discord servers I'm on) just because I said "I hope Biden doesn't screw this up"
You have defended Trump just as many times.
@RoboBlue:
and then politely called him out for making a huge mistake for three whole months which he began to correct almost immediately after I complained, completely validating my point.
Biden did the thing he said he would do and you want the thanks? Nope sorry not how it works.
@RoboBlue:
And then I complimented Biden by saying he was the most reasonable president in the last 20 years.
You also implied he was a neoliberal. Which again shows how misinformed you always are.
@RoboBlue:
Do you?
Do you care about national security? So far you don't care as far as I am seeing. So it's already not a good topic for you to go into. You don't care to learn. You don't even care to learn up on people you're defending for god's sake.
@RoboBlue:
You think I'm an anti-black right-wing libertarian who hates Biden more than Trump.
I think you're a misinformed person on political matters and you'll always tend to give the benefit of doubt if not outright support for racist right-wingers or bad faith actors whose whole goal is to stop the Democrats. And you believe in conspiracy theories. So it's not much better if I am perfectly honest.
@RoboBlue:
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I don't support a trial.
Because you want a pardon instead and…. all of this?
@RoboBlue:
I just don't believe that's possible for Snowden at the moment.
You have nothing to back this up though. Are you saying he will be killed because he is a Russian asset? I disagree but then you should be agreeing with me that he never should have become a Russian asset in the first place.
By the way him being a Russian asset now is why Americans will never care about his fate. Traitors aren't well liked. For good reason.
@RoboBlue:
Seriously, why do you have this idea in your head that every political opinion is motivated by race, gender and/or partisan bias?
Because they are.
@RoboBlue:
I'm for pardoning all of the nonviolent drug offenders too, for what it's worth.
Okay you convinced me you're not racist with this position.
@RoboBlue:
Feel free to provide me with a list of all the non-white, non-cis people you think deserve a pardon and I'll take a look at it.
Jeffrey Epstein.
@RoboBlue:
I don't really expect Biden to pardon him but I just figured I'd bring it up while he's doing the right thing.
But that's not the right thing to do. So why bring it up?
@RoboBlue:
Nobody forced you to type up half a page of text about how Snowden is a secret right-winger whose supporters are all cisgender right-wing racists.
I know. That part was sarcasm. Another thing you just can't get in your quest to defend the right-wingers out there that deserve your defense.
Anyway please stop supporting the most insane views/theories out there and take in that people care and should care about national safety. Snowden is a Russian asset and deserves no free pardon. He can come back for a trial and that's all anyone should expect and want.