Personally i tend to put the scabbard themselves aside since it isn't really about them. It's a blow being struck with the entire weight of Wano, he is literally being pierced with the pain of Wano. Trying to quantify that as why can a five hurt a ten is, in my estimation, completely missing the point of what transpired and why it had such oomph
Chapter 988: Sorry for the Wait
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Does Yamato's delusion concerning Momo change how anyone feels about how to deal with their identity? I feel like this is closer to Rachel Dolezal than Trans identity. Yamato absolutely isn't Oden and isn't Momo's father and buying into that level of delusion can only do more harm than good.
Doesn't change my thoughts at all.
@.access:
Another two weeks where the chapter discussion thread will become "Justify the Chapter to Joy Boy thread", huh!?
People, just let him think whatever he thinks. You don't need to make a point of showing how much you disagree with his views every week to the point the thread becomes nothing but that.
Although with two weeks to dissect a chapter, I suppose after a while is either that or nothing.
Every chapter it's the exact same thing. You're right, it's just not worth engaging with anymore.
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I really can't get over how freaking cool Kaido looks against that moon, facing against the Minks.
Also a neat thing: Oda handles really well the balance between humorous and frightening with Big Mom. First she goes full on berserk, punching that hole in the wall/everything around her like a scary witch giant and after that BAM! Here comes Franky!
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I don't care what Joy Boy thinks about Kaido and Big Mom. I'll take anything Oda gave us than another Aizen or Haoh.
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I don't care what Joy Boy thinks about Kaido and Big Mom. I'll take anything Oda gave us than another Aizen or Haoh.
I think that is precisely Joy Boy's point. That no one will criticize the Manga.
Joy Boy, why the reluctance to wait for the plot to develop though? You could be right and Oda will allow Kaido and Big Mom to be defeated to speed along the story, but why not let it play out a bit? (You do bring a lot of juice to the forum, so I welcome your opinion even if i dont fully understand why not to wait.)
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@Haisha:
I think that is precisely Joy Boy's point. That no one will criticize the Manga.
Joy Boy, why the reluctance to wait for the plot to develop though? You could be right and Oda will allow Kaido and Big Mom to be defeated to speed along the story, but why not let it play out a bit? (You do bring a lot of juice to the forum, so I welcome your opinion even if i dont fully understand why not to wait.)
Everybody criticizes the manga here all the time.
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@Haisha:
I think that is precisely Joy Boy's point. That no one will criticize the Manga.
That wasn't really the point I wanted to make. I just expressed that having a villain being so almighty powerful to the point the protagonist has to resort to a cheap asspull by the author is a bad writting option.
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I don't care what Joy Boy thinks about Kaido and Big Mom. I'll take anything Oda gave us than another Aizen or Haoh.
Kaido and Big Mom not getting/hurt ridiculed by guys who aren't supposed to touch them means they'll be Aizen ? Were Doflamingo and Katakuri Aizens ?
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@Haisha:
I think that is precisely Joy Boy's point. That no one will criticize the Manga.
Joy Boy, why the reluctance to wait for the plot to develop though? You could be right and Oda will allow Kaido and Big Mom to be defeated to speed along the story, but why not let it play out a bit? (You do bring a lot of juice to the forum, so I welcome your opinion even if i dont fully understand why not to wait.)
Wait what exactly ? This is not the first time Oda does this to these 2. Kaido lost his aura with Oden. Before the final fight. That was bad writing. Big Mom is only good when she's not involved with the straw hats because every time she is, she gets ridiculed.
These 2 Yonko and Oda in particular failed to deliver on the hype. Hype that was being build up since chapter 432.
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Sounds like the only satisfactory thing here is for Kaido and BM to defeat (utterly destroy?) everyone and become co-Pirate Kings. :getlost:
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@The:
Sounds like the only satisfactory thing here is for Kaido and BM to defeat (utterly destroy?) everyone and become co-Pirate Kings. :getlost:
Nah Oda could instead have Kaido and Big Mom fight each other, their fall down being the reason they lose. Because it’s utter nonsense for Luffys side to defeat a Yonko
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you're reading the wrong manga then if you think Luffy won't be able to defeat a Yonkou
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@Joy:
Nah Oda could instead have Kaido and Big Mom fight each other, their fall down being the reason they lose. Because it’s utter nonsense for Luffys side to defeat a Yonko
Then maybe Shanks and Blackbeard can kill each other and the Marines are stopped by a social justice movement called "Defund the Navy" :getlost:
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@Joy:
Nah Oda could instead have Kaido and Big Mom fight each other, their fall down being the reason they lose. Because it’s utter nonsense for Luffys side to defeat a Yonko
You heard that folks? The protagonist isn't allowed to surpass an obstacle in his path because the villains being an invincible wall is more important to the story.
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You heard that folks? The protagonist isn't allowed to surpass an obstacle in his path because the villains being an invincible wall is more important to the story.
Well, surpass an obstacle is fine, but I'm worried. I think both Doflamingo and Katakuri were not properly defeated. I'm waiting for something more like Luffy vs Lucci round 2. That's where the bar is.
Tamo junto br!
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Well, surpass an obstacle is fine, but I'm worried. I think both Doflamingo and Katakuri were not properly defeated. I'm waiting for something more like Luffy vs Lucci round 2. That's where the bar is.
Tamo junto br!
Katakuri fight I enjoyed more and it was closest thing to fair fight that Luffy got since Timeskip.
If you are waiting for Lucci round 2 equivalent then you need to wait for Luffy vs Kizaru. Luffy promised to beat him in future. It would be nice payback for what Kizaru did to Strawhats. I would probably fanboy out loud seeing M3 doing their 3 vs 1 attack on an Admiral(one they did against PX before timeskip) blowing him away and Luffy taking that fight Solo.. that would be Natural step after Luffy awakens his fruit and gets stronger again after this arc finishes. Likely it would be fight ending like Luffy vs Lucci and Luffy vs Katakuri with Luffy being nearly killed(Lucci beaten up Luffy even more than Katakuri).
Sanji with his redesigned Raid Suit fighting Vegapunks new creations that are likely upgraded Cyborgs would also look quite amazing.
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It's certainly fair to critique a fight and the writing techniques an author uses to have the main character beat a bad guy. You certainly don't want something like Ichigo vs. Aizen where it's clear the author doesn't know how to stop powerwanking the bad guy and gives the hero some really last minute nonsensical powerup. It's also not ideal to just have the fight end on something really mundane that you wouldn't expect to be the deathblow (unless it's clear that the villain had accumulated significant damage beforehand).
At the same time, it's worth keeping in mind that this is a shonen manga. That doesn't automatically give the fights immunity to criticism, but we'd be amiss to not expect certain things…especially given that we have 900 chapters of arcs and battles to look back on.
- The heroes are going to have inhuman willpower. There's definitely a border on how much punishment is too much, but it's a very loose one that's prone to testing.
- The heroes will surpass expectations relatively quickly. The typical pirate in the One Piece world doesn't come close to beating a Warlord after a few weeks in the Grand Line. Luffy went from beating Arlong to beating Crocodile incredibly quickly, when realistically he probably shouldn't have. The way some people are talking I feel like it could take Oda hundreds more chapters and decades of time passed in-universe before they would consider it time for Luffy to take on the Yonko. The fact is, now is the time. Luffy has beaten multiple elite New World pirates over what has been nearly a decade in real life. This may still be a big leap for him to make, but it's a leap that this story has made before and one that would exist no matter what Oda did.
- Expect the most mighty, invincible-looking of characters to be brought down to earth a little by Luffy's crazy antics. At the end of the day, Luffy dictates how things go. The baddies have their moments on occasion, but the way Luffy disrupts them will always hang around them.
I'm not going to comment further about how the upcoming war against Kaido and Big Mom is going to go, because what the hell do I know about how it'll play out? The only thing I can say with 100 percent certainty is, y'all better be prepared for at least 1 Yonko to go down by the end of this arc. There's certainly a possibility that the heroes win because of bad writing. Impossible to rule out right now. But if you're rooting for Kaido and Big Mom here (like, why tho), prepare to be disappointed by Oda's desire to, y'know, advance the story.
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It feels like Oden's flashback was a year ago, but it was really just some months back. It just feels like this distant arc and we're in a totally new one
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Everyone's efforts will eventually take down Kaido with Luffy landing the final blow. The Akazaya Nine had their moment that conveyed grief and emotion built up over the past 8 years and 6 months of chapters and through their efforts, while not leading to Kaidou's defeat, will likely weaken him. Kid, Law, (Hawkins?), (Apoo?), (Momo?), Zoro and Yamato will end up assisting Luffy at some point in taking down Kaido. Through his fight with Luffy, Kaido will change his opinion of Luffy and what type of pirate he perceives him as.
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Everyone's efforts will eventually take down Kaido with Luffy landing the final blow. The Akazaya Nine had their moment that conveyed grief and emotion built up over the past 8 years and 6 months of chapters and through their efforts, while not leading to Kaidou's defeat, will likely weaken him. Kid, Law, (Hawkins?), (Apoo?), (Momo?), Zoro and Yamato will end up assisting Luffy at some point in taking down Kaido. Through his fight with Luffy, Kaido will change his opinion of Luffy and what type of pirate he perceives him as.
No one but Luffy is beating Kaidou.
I 100% guarantee it will not be a team effort.
Just like Doflamingo decimated Law, leaving Luffy to fight him one on one, Kaidou will be the same.
Remember, Luffy has declared that he will personally beat all the Emperors. To him, beating the Emperors is the true path to Pirate King.
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Katakuri fight I enjoyed more and it was closest thing to fair fight that Luffy got since Timeskip.
If you are waiting for Lucci round 2 equivalent then you need to wait for Luffy vs Kizaru. Luffy promised to beat him in future. It would be nice payback for what Kizaru did to Strawhats. I would probably fanboy out loud seeing M3 doing their 3 vs 1 attack on an Admiral(one they did against PX before timeskip) blowing him away and Luffy taking that fight Solo.. that would be Natural step after Luffy awakens his fruit and gets stronger again after this arc finishes. Likely it would be fight ending like Luffy vs Lucci and Luffy vs Katakuri with Luffy being nearly killed(Lucci beaten up Luffy even more than Katakuri).
Sanji with his redesigned Raid Suit fighting Vegapunks new creations that are likely upgraded Cyborgs would also look quite amazing.
If wasn't for the bubble gum girl, Katakuri vs Luffy would be the best fight. But Katakuri stabbing himself was not very good imo, the honour worked better on Franky vs Senior Pink. Overall, Luffy's fights are just good, not amazing. I really like Luffy vs Lucci, but I can't forget the gears coming from nowhere. Versus Crocodile, the blood thing. Versus Enel, natural advantage. Versus Moria, well, Moria defeated himself. CC and Hordy were weaker since from the start. Versus DD, Coliseum's narrator carried Luffy. There's always something. Back on east blue, only Arlong is worth mentioning.
As for Kaido, Luffy is going from a terrible defeat to a serious fight. The training with Hyogoro is exactly what I was expecting for him to be able to fight Kaido, he even "trained" with Big Mom. So, Oda has build the fight acceptable in many aspects. It's up to him to make the best fight ever, and he can.
Luffy and Zoro both had justified power ups to fight Kaido's high ranks. And Sanji, I think the raid suit ruined him. It's like he is embracing what he hates the most. And doesnt feel he is getting stronger by his own.
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. And Sanji, I think the raid suit ruined him. It's like he is embracing what he hates the most. And doesnt feel he is getting stronger by his own.
This comment makes me realize that alot of people did not understand Sanji and his family dynamic.
At the end of WCI, with the exception of Judge, Sanji had effectively reconciled with his family.
By giving him the raid suit, it was their way of apologizing(despite not having emotions) and telling Sanji to remember them.
I don't think Oda would ever let his audience think that its OK to become, and stay estranged from your family. Especially when most of the family members couldn't really be blamed for the shit he went through.
So no, Sanji using the suit is not him embracing what he hates the most. Its him embracing his past and accepting his family.
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This comment makes me realize that alot of people did not understand Sanji and his family dynamic.
At the end of WCI, with the exception of Judge, Sanji had effectively reconciled with his family.
By giving him the raid suit, it was their way of apologizing(despite not having emotions) and telling Sanji to remember them.
I don't think Oda would ever let his audience think that its OK to become, and stay estranged from your family. Especially when most of the family members couldn't really be blamed for the shit he went through.
So no, Sanji using the suit is not him embracing what he hates the most. Its him embracing his past and accepting his family.
I think it's a bit more complex than that. I don't think he's embracing them, but I do think he's doing the same thing Zoro did when he asked Mihawk to help him. He put aside his justified pride and accepted their help (which he already had during his rescue of Luffy) to strengthen himself for a better cause. They saved him and gave him the suit somewhat begrudgingly, because he had destroyed their pride in their own identity and for Judge's sake, his decisions as a father. They aren't family in the same way that he is with Zeff and the rest of the Baratie staff, but like you did point to, there's something there that still connects them.
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You heard that folks? The protagonist isn't allowed to surpass an obstacle in his path because the villains being an invincible wall is more important to the story.
It's 2 Yonko vs a guy who isn't. Not even the marines can deal with it.
Also heard that folks ? Protagonist surpassing an obstacle in a nonsensical way is better writing and more important than a coherent story that makes sense.
Only in AP folks.
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@Joy:
It's 2 Yonko vs a guy who isn't. Not even the marines can deal with it.
Also heard that folks ? Protagonist surpassing an obstacle in a nonsensical way is better writing and more important than a coherent story that makes sense.
Only in AP folks.
Yep. Just Luffy. Only Luffy is fighting both of the Yonkou, who are also by themselves. You heard it here folks, Joy Boy of apforums already knows precisely what's going to happen and why it will suck.
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Feels like a lot of whining and crying over something that hasn't even played out yet. I guess the advantage of reading an entire arc at a time instead of waiting weeks between chapters.
Also, Luffy is now the 5th Yonko
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I think it's a bit more complex than that. I don't think he's embracing them, but I do think he's doing the same thing Zoro did when he asked Mihawk to help him. He put aside his justified pride and accepted their help (which he already had during his rescue of Luffy) to strengthen himself for a better cause. They saved him and gave him the suit somewhat begrudgingly, because he had destroyed their pride in their own identity and for Judge's sake, his decisions as a father. They aren't family in the same way that he is with Zeff and the rest of the Baratie staff, but like you did point to, there's something there that still connects them.
Good point.
But I believe that if it was a point of pride thing. Oda would have had Franky/Ussop do some modifications to the suit, to make it less Vinsmoke and more Sanji.
But, he didn't, he went out of his way to make the Vinsmoke Suit look really good.
Which means that Oda wanted to reinforce the connection between the Vinsmokes and Sanji.
Also, what do you mean they gave him the suit reluctantly? Its not like he asked for it. They had no reason to gift him with the suit. They could have simply saved him and considered that as the debt repaid.
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@Joy:
It's 2 Yonko vs a guy who isn't. Not even the marines can deal with it.
Also heard that folks ? Protagonist surpassing an obstacle in a nonsensical way is better writing and more important than a coherent story that makes sense.
Only in AP folks.
Kaidou and Big Mom are not the type of people who would double team anyone though.
Its going to be 1 v 1 fights.
Unfortunately, Big Mom has already been setup as a non threat in Wano, so I expect to leave the island, reducing the Emperor threat level.
Note, that unlike with Kaidou. Luffy has been suprisingly tame in regards to attacking and fighting Big Mom.
He has had multiple instances where he has faced her head on and yet not once have we seen him attack her. During the raid.
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Yep. Just Luffy. Only Luffy is fighting both of the Yonkou, who are also by themselves. You heard it here folks, Joy Boy of apforums already knows precisely what's going to happen and why it will suck.
Ok let's put it down again.
Luffy's alliance beating Kaido and Big Mom alliance doesn't make a shred of a sense. None.
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@Joy:
Ok let's put it down again.
Luffy's alliance beating Kaido and Big Mom alliance doesn't make a shred of a sense. None.
You might find people more willing to have serious conversations with you if you didn't so freely employ the use of hyperbole.
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Also, what do you mean they gave him the suit reluctantly? Its not like he asked for it. They had no reason to gift him with the suit. They could have simply saved him and considered that as the debt repaid.
Maybe reluctance isn't the correct word, but I had the impression that especially from Judge's perspective (who would have designed the suit), he doesn't understand Sanji and still sees him as weak and worthless and he said as much: "What does HE really mean to you Straw Hat Luffy?! This is an inescapable den of danger, the territory of Big Mom, Emperor of the Sea!!! Did you really risk your lives just to take him back?! Sanji is the failure of Germa! His skin is no armor! He busies himself with menial cooking! He has no royal pride! He is swayed by pointless emotions and exposes himself to danger for the sake of the weak! His mentality is soft! He is flawed as a soldier! He is a failure!"
I assume the raid suit was created by him and it was his idea for Niji to give it to Sanji. Whatever he feels towards Sanji I'm sure there's lots of regret after seeing how strong he has become along with knowing how strong he might have been if he wasn't a "failure."
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You might find people more willing to have serious conversations with you if you didn't so freely employ the use of hyperbole.
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Maybe reluctance isn't the correct word, but I had the impression that especially from Judge's perspective (who would have designed the suit), he doesn't understand Sanji and still sees him as weak and worthless and he said as much: "What does HE really mean to you Straw Hat Luffy?! This is an inescapable den of danger, the territory of Big Mom, Emperor of the Sea!!! Did you really risk your lives just to take him back?! Sanji is the failure of Germa! His skin is no armor! He busies himself with menial cooking! He has no royal pride! He is swayed by pointless emotions and exposes himself to danger for the sake of the weak! His mentality is soft! He is flawed as a soldier! He is a failure!"
I assume the raid suit was created by him and it was his idea for Niji to give it to Sanji. Whatever he feels towards Sanji I'm sure there's lots of regret after seeing how strong he has become along with knowing how strong he might have been if he wasn't a "failure."
What hyperbole exactly ?
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The other thing I think we see from Luffy is his ability to endure and find another gear (pun not intended… or maybe) whenever he is facing a villain who hurts others, especially those close to him. Essentially the defender or champion of the downtrodden and oppressed. The two Yonko have certainly hurt many, including those close to Luffy, and will probably continue to do so in the remainder of this arc. Those thoughts and visuals might be the spark he needs to awaken his DF, perfect his Haki/Ryuo and/or find yet another gear (maybe literally) to topple them... which is after all one of his stated goals on his journey to becoming the Pirate King.
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@Joy:
What hyperbole exactly ?
You so often speak in pure absolutes
Luffy's alliance beating Kaido and Big Mom alliance doesn't make a shred of a sense. None.
that it makes the prospect of having a discussion with you pointless. If you cannot even acknowledge a 1% chance for them to win, then it doesn't seem like you even want to have a conversation about it, you've already made up your mind. 100 percent sureness without meaningful variables is hyperbole. It also misses the point of Shounen. Protagonists should feel overmatched because the money is in how and why they are able to overcome. That's without getting into the fact that we don't know how it will play out.
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You so often speak in pure absolutes
that it makes the prospect of having a discussion with you pointless. If you cannot even acknowledge a 1% chance for them to win, then it doesn't seem like you even want to have a conversation about it, you've already made up your mind. 100 percent sureness without meaningful variables is hyperbole. It also misses the point of Shounen. Protagonists should feel overmatched because the money is in how and why they are able to overcome. That's without getting into the fact that we don't know how it will play out.
The point is that Luffy can't beat them fair. Don't bring me past examples, they are incomparable. Hence why Oda has brought up this whole "pirates betray you" thing. Big Mom and Kaido will betray each other while the ones on Luffy's side will remain on the same side so they will manage to win. Luffy beating them fairly is nonsense. Oda could just end the series there, nobody should pose a challenge to Luffy.
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I'm not going to say their is no way Kaido and Big Mom will both be defeated this arc but I seriously doubt it. I mean with Kaido it just makes narrative sense but Big Mom? I don't see it.
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@Joy:
The point is that Luffy can't beat them fair. Don't bring me past examples, they are incomparable. Hence why Oda has brought up this whole "pirates betray you" thing. Big Mom and Kaido will betray each other while the ones on Luffy's side will remain on the same side so they will manage to win. Luffy beating them fairly is nonsense. Oda could just end the series there, nobody should pose a challenge to Luffy.
Luffy beating either of them in a single fair fight is possible and Oda has done a good job showing us how, through training and revealing a weakness of Big Mom. Previous fights are precisely comparable and contrastable; that's the fun. We don't compare things because they are the same, but because they're different and it's worthwhile to explore those differences.
What can we say about Kaido with 100 percent sureness? His skin is incredibly tough and he can take immense damage, but he's not impervious to pain (getting a headache from his fall) or being cut. He is also capable of being damaged through Ryou, the same Haki ability that Luffy has been fighting with. What can we intuit, but not say with 100 percent sureness? That he's an extremely fast attacker and that Thunder Bagua is more than enough to take out most high level fighters with one hit. If Luffy is on the same level as Oden (strength-wise) and isn't distracted at a key moment, I can see him overcoming Kaido if he can avoid his most powerful attacks (which seems probable with his highly advanced observation haki and experience already fighting him) and keep laying into him. I don't know if he can kill him, or he would, but I don't think the plot is leading to that.
As for Big Mom, I don't think this is where she'll get beat and we don't know whether Ryou would even have any effect on her. Oda has not developed the plot yet to where I can imagine Luffy defeating her without something mentally devastating making her vulnerable, or her being really hungry for an extended period. If he was to fight and damage her next chapter, I think it would be a problem. On the other hand, I'm sure Oda knows precisely what will happen when she's taken down and has something in mind that will make sense. It could be betrayal, it could be something else, but as long as it makes sense I'm fine.
As for the rest of Kaido+Big Mom vs the Straw Hat-Samura-Mink alliance, I don't find it at all hard to believe that they can beat them.
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I'm not going to say their is no way Kaido and Big Mom will both be defeated this arc but I seriously doubt it. I mean with Kaido it just makes narrative sense but Big Mom? I don't see it.
Big Mom has been entangled with Luffy even before Kaido. I don’t see why people refuse to accept that this is the big battle against both Yonko. We even know that after Wano we will start to head towards the endgame, why people expect BM to keep appearing even further?
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Roger and Garp once fought Kaido and Big Mom plus Whitebeard, Xebec and then some in the past.
Isn't Luffy supossed to do a feat like this at some point if he is supossed to gain the same title as Gol D. Roger? In fact isn't he right now alongside an army that in theory is bigger than what a pirate crew and marine vice-admiral should have?
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Big Mom has been entangled with Luffy even before Kaido. I don’t see why people refuse to accept that this is the big battle against both Yonko. We even know that after Wano we will start to head towards the endgame, why people expect BM to keep appearing even further?
I think it's more than fair to question whether Big Mom will go down this arc when we know she has plot significance in Elbaf (which most assume the straw hats will be going to) and there doesn't seem to be a strong theory for how she can be taken down without the Mother Carmel photo loophole.
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Roger and Garp once fought Kaido and Big Mom plus Whitebeard, Xebec and then some in the past.
Isn't Luffy supossed to do a feat like this at some point if he is supossed to gain the same title as Gol D. Roger? In fact isn't he right now alongside an army that in theory is bigger than what a pirate crew and marine vice-admiral should have?
Beating the Blackbeard Pirates would be a comparable feat. That's 10 titanic captains, for ya.
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This comment makes me realize that alot of people did not understand Sanji and his family dynamic.
At the end of WCI, with the exception of Judge, Sanji had effectively reconciled with his family.
By giving him the raid suit, it was their way of apologizing(despite not having emotions) and telling Sanji to remember them.
I don't think Oda would ever let his audience think that its OK to become, and stay estranged from your family. Especially when most of the family members couldn't really be blamed for the shit he went through.
So no, Sanji using the suit is not him embracing what he hates the most. Its him embracing his past and accepting his family.
You say he is not embracing what he hates most, but embracing his past, which he… still hates. Look at his reaction by having "Vinsmoke" in his poster.
Nah. Sanji is not embracing his family at all. He's putting his pride aside for the sake of others and following what Zeff taught him.
He still hates the Germa name going by Law's reaction.
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No one but Luffy is beating Kaidou.
I 100% guarantee it will not be a team effort.
Just like Doflamingo decimated Law, leaving Luffy to fight him one on one, Kaidou will be the same.
Remember, Luffy has declared that he will personally beat all the Emperors. To him, beating the Emperors is the true path to Pirate King.
Doflamingo was a team effort though. Red Hawk, Injection Shot and Gamma Knife all involved a third-party.
And you can see Doflamingo fixing his first aid after getting up from Lion Bazooka, so the damage Law provided was long-lasting.
And this is not even mentioning Gats and the gladiators buying time for Luffy.
Kaido is different since he can apparently regenerate, thus making the current fight with the Scabbards not matter. Luffy might get some assistance though, even if it's something like Nightmare Luffy, where he does the heavy lifting.
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Kaido is different since he can apparently regenerate, thus making the current fight with the Scabbards not matter. Luffy might get some assistance though, even if it's something like Nightmare Luffy, where he does the heavy lifting.
There's also nothing wrong with Kaido being hurt by someone else, since Luffy already did too, bombed by Apoo and heatbutted by Ulti.
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Big Mom has been entangled with Luffy even before Kaido. I don’t see why people refuse to accept that this is the big battle against both Yonko. We even know that after Wano we will start to head towards the endgame, why people expect BM to keep appearing even further?
Oh I'm sorry. Am I supposed to be absolutely convinced Big Mom will be going down in Wano because the "entanglement" with her happened before Kaido? Well I'm not. Kaido has a connection with Wano of over 20 years. Big Mom just arrived a few days/week ago? Their is no narrative satisfaction seeing her defeated here.
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Oh I'm sorry. Am I supposed to be absolutely convinced Big Mom will be going down in Wano because the "entanglement" with her happened before Kaido? Well I'm not. Kaido has a connection with Wano of over 20 years. Big Mom just arrived a few days/week ago? Their is no narrative satisfaction seeing her defeated here.
We already visited her own island. She has a connection to Kaido. Oda wouldn't bring her to Wano just for her to leave mid-action. Sorry, but Big Mom is unneeded for an Elbaf arc, and I doubt there's plans to make her a threat for a third time.
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Oh I'm sorry. Am I supposed to be absolutely convinced Big Mom will be going down in Wano because the "entanglement" with her happened before Kaido? Well I'm not. Kaido has a connection with Wano of over 20 years. Big Mom just arrived a few days/week ago? Their is no narrative satisfaction seeing her defeated here.
For you maybe. There's a reason people were able to predict here coming here to begin with. Not to mention they've already talked about how this will be an arc where Luffy fights the both of them, and they're clearly the "Greatest Enemy" that Oda was referring to, and they have a clear connection through Rocks. She's a wild card, so sure, her defeat is not 100% guaranteed. (Even though Luffy has said twice now that she's going down this arc) But there would definitely be no issue with it on a narrative level.
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Ever since she got an alternative nice side that can just be switch flipped into action i'm leaning on that BM will gradually be lowered down into no fight territory. Like they'll brawl a bit, hold her of maybe but no battle til only one man stands but rather some lame change of heart scenario at the tail end of this arc. Dunno maybe thats just because i'm not really feeling a personal need for her to be beat up. But we'll see
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It is possible that BB will attack BM territory, and she'll have to run back in the middle of the fight.
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Ever since she got an alternative nice side that can just be switch flipped into action i'm leaning on that BM will gradually be lowered down into no fight territory. Like they'll brawl a bit, hold her of maybe but no battle til only one man stands but rather some lame change of heart scenario at the tail end of this arc. Dunno maybe thats just because i'm not really feeling a personal need for her to be beat up. But we'll see
I would file that under getting dealt with in Wano. Basically at this point, it makes more sense for her to cease being an antagonist one way or another in Wano than to be physically dealt with in Elbaf or anywhere else.
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We already visited her own island. She has a connection to Kaido. Oda wouldn't bring her to Wano just for her to leave mid-action. Sorry, but Big Mom is unneeded for an Elbaf arc, and I doubt there's plans to make her a threat for a third time.
I'm not sold on her leaving Wano for Kaido to be defeated. I think that is possible but I also think it is possibke that her ultimate narrative purpose this arc is to kill Kaido. Another possibility if for her "O-Lin" persona to be carried into Elbaf.
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For you maybe. There's a reason people were able to predict here coming here to begin with. Not to mention they've already talked about how this will be an arc where Luffy fights the both of them, and they're clearly the "Greatest Enemy" that Oda was referring to, and they have a clear connection through Rocks. She's a wild card, so sure, her defeat is not 100% guaranteed. (Even though Luffy has said twice now that she's going down this arc) But there would definitely be no issue with it on a narrative level.
My point was that Kaido's defeat should completely overshadow her defeat if it were to happen in Wano so I don't see it happening.
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You say he is not embracing what he hates most, but embracing his past, which he… still hates. Look at his reaction by having "Vinsmoke" in his poster.
Nah. Sanji is not embracing his family at all. He's putting his pride aside for the sake of others and following what Zeff taught him.
He still hates the Germa name going by Law's reaction.
Doflamingo was a team effort though. Red Hawk, Injection Shot and Gamma Knife all involved a third-party.
And you can see Doflamingo fixing his first aid after getting up from Lion Bazooka, so the damage Law provided was long-lasting.
And this is not even mentioning Gats and the gladiators buying time for Luffy.
Kaido is different since he can apparently regenerate, thus making the current fight with the Scabbards not matter. Luffy might get some assistance though, even if it's something like Nightmare Luffy, where he does the heavy lifting.
Sure, Sanji will never think of himself as a Vinsmoke. But that's due to his baggage with Judge.
I genuinely think that Sanji would reconcile with his siblings though. and the Raid Suit is tied more to the children than to Judge.
As for Doflamingo vs Luffy. Sure people did things to assist Luffy.
But at the end of the fight, no matter what had happened it was Still Luffy Vs Doflamingo while everyone watched.
Luffy was not going to end that fight with Him and Law somehow doing a combo attack, even though it would have been the more thematic and fit into the story.
All I'm saying is that, despite the fact that Doflamingo hurt other people more deeply and personally didn't really do anything to Luffy personally, it was still Luffy who fought him at the end, alone.
Edit: I'm a bit drunk so i might not be clear enough
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My point was that Kaido's defeat should completely overshadow her defeat if it were to happen in Wano so I don't see it happening.
She's a Yonko as well. While Kaido is the main antagonist, there's no "completely overshadowing" the defeat of another Yonko. Regardless, that's not a good enough reason for it to argue that it'd be more appropriate to happen elsewhere. All the buildup and the connection between Kaido and Big Mom happened for a reason. I don't have anything against the theory of her appearing in Elbaf, but the implication that Elbaf or any other location makes more sense for Big Mom to be defeated than Wano doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
Since we've already visited Totland, Wano, where we're in an all-out war, is easily the next best option.
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She's a Yonko as well. While Kaido is the main antagonist, there's no "completely overshadowing" the defeat of another Yonko. Regardless, that's not a good enough reason for it to argue that it'd be more appropriate to happen elsewhere. All the buildup and the connection between Kaido and Big Mom happened for a reason. I don't have anything against the theory of her appearing in Elbaf, but the implication that Elbaf or any other location makes more sense for Big Mom to be defeated than Wano doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
Since we've already visited Totland, Wano, where we're in an all-out war, is easily the next best option.
Why doesn't it hold up under scrutiny? What makes this not seem likely to you? (besides the fact that a visit to elbaf isn't certain)
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Elbaf feels like the place where BM becomes whole and finds her peace