Needless to mention, even if Carrot didn't got caught by the Beast Pirates, nor the poison, she clearly didn't achieve much in the aftermath either.
We didn't even know what she did during that time period. Which as I said, very weird Oda wants this companion among the Straw Hats who we don't know anything about besides the surface level.
We didn't even know what she did during that time period. Which as I said, very weird Oda wants this companion among the Straw Hats who we don't know anything about besides the surface level.
She didn't took down the Gifters still around, Sheepshead, nor shoo'ed Ginrummy away, she didn't cure other Minks from posion.
She didn't do any of the relevant stuff to be done.
What are you expexting a flashback of? Carrot feeding Raizo with mashed potatoes and garlinc bread?
I’m confused how can Aokiji be one of the Titans, when Gatz announced there were ten titans like a few pages before Jesus Burgess and BB were talking about wether they should let Aokiji join the crew?
And how come Smoker didn’t know he was one of the ten titans? I’m sure he’s probs up to date on who the Yonko’s top subordinates are, but didn’t seem to know what Aokiji was up to outside of it being shady, and literally asks him what he’s up to. If he was a Yonko’s subordinate at the time you think he would have mentioned it
Unless he became an official Titan in between when they left Punkhazard to when they got to Dressrosa
If that is the case it’s bad writing on Odas part
Carrot quite literally was not necessary for this mission since the whole discussion in Chapter 822 was to establish who could accompany the Retrieval Team. In a narrative sense and based on Oda's past conventions, there needs to be justification since her presence wasn't a central figure in either WCI nor Wano. Which is why her presence still among them is weird. You can't simply end it there with no explanation.
Yeah, it could've been Pekoms staying with them or no one at all. The fact that most of the Minks were asking for permission and she had already left (possibly before Jack's 2nd attack) warrants questioning of what Oda is going with her.
The most singled out characters from the Fleet were Cavendish and Barto. They were captains of their own crew and were barely separated from the narrative of just aiding against Doffy.
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She didn't took down the Gifters still around, Sheepshead, nor shoo'ed Ginrummy away, she didn't cure other Minks from posion.
The Curly Brow crew and Caesar did all of this. That was the whole point to make them the saviors. Were any of the Minks supposed to do this? You're saying that Carrot wasn't crucial enough to do things that was meant for no Minks, but was specifically written for the Curly Brow crew
Yeah, it could've been Pekoms staying with them or no one at all. The fact that most of the Minks were asking for permission and she had already left (possibly before Jack's 2nd attack) warrants questioning of what Oda is going with her.
The most singled out characters from the Fleet were Cavendish and Barto. They were captains of their own crew and were barely separated from the narrative of just aiding against Doffy.
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The Curly Brow crew and Caesar did all of this. That was the whole point to make them the saviors. Were any of the Minks supposed to do this? You're saying that Carrot wasn't crucial enough to do things that was meant for no Minks, but was specifically written for the Curly Brow crew
Yeah, she didn't achieve any of the most crucial stuff to be done, that's the uuh, that's the point.
I’m confused how can Aokiji be one of the Titans, when Gatz announced there were ten titans like a few pages before Jesus Burgess and BB were talking about wether they should let Aokiji join the crew?
Weren't the "Titans" announced after? I remember the mention of Aokiji was in chapter 720 and that Blackbeard had 10 captains was mentioned in chapter 737. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.
Kinemon and Law had an agenda, Johnny and Yosaku were expository characters that did not contribute much, and Bon-chan is already a friend of the Straw Hats where he goes out of his way to fight off Hina that was attacking them after the events of Alabasta.
And so far, what is Carrot? An expository character. So far her contribution in the story is to be our glimpse into Sulong form, and as a witness to Pedro's sacrifice. What has she contributed so far? Not much either in terms of personal accomplishment.
If you look at trend of characters who are associated with the Straw Hats on their journey, there is a clear agenda to accomplish. Especially from the ones I just listed above. Carrot quite literally was not necessary for this mission since the whole discussion in Chapter 822 was to establish who could accompany the Retrieval Team. In a narrative sense and based on Oda's past conventions, there needs to be justification since her presence wasn't a central figure in either WCI nor Wano. Which is why her presence still among them is weird. You can't simply end it there with no explanation.
I disagree. Oda adds tag-along characters in every arc, many times where it wasn't necessary at all. There also does not need to be any justification for any character tagging along other than simply being there to support others. They are almost always friends of the crew, doing it for the sake of being a friend and an ally. That is even the underlying reason why Jinbe is joining, and it is no different than why Bon Clay, Ivankov, Kinemon, Inuarashi/Nekomamushi, Marco or anyone else would decide to help the Strawhats. There doesn't need to be a deeper meaning than what we have at face value.
Like I said, Carrot already has a very base reason to help in the retrieval mission - she trusts in the Strawhats since they helped save Zou, twice. Her joining is nothing less than helping out those she considers her friends, especially in a time of need. I don't see any connection here that would bridge her into becoming any more of a crewmember than if she isn't a part of the retrieval team.
How is the crew supposed to be the saviors, if Carrot can already save the Minks?
Well, I guess that's a question for @SeaOfHope, not me.
And so far, what is Carrot? An expository character. So far her contribution in the story is to be our glimpse into Sulong form, and as a witness to Pedro's sacrifice. What has she contributed so far? Not much either in terms of personal accomplishment.
If these 2 things are it, why position her back with the crew? Those things are basically over and have served their purpose. She can easily be of help from the Musketeer group with Kinemon
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Well, I guess that's a question for @SeaOfHope, not me.
You're saying that she would be important to the arc, if she did something that no Mink could've done and would defeat the purpose of the crew being saviors. Now you're deflecting to another member of the forum?
If these 2 things are it, why position her back with the crew? Those things are basically over and have served their purpose. She can easily be of help from the Musketeer group with Kinemon
Because Oda wants to? Why position Shinobu with Nami's retreival group when she should be helping the Scabbards? Same reasoning. I don't think this points to Shinobu being any more or less a potential crewmember despite her not being an official Scabbard or retainer to Oden.
Because she wants to? Why position Shinobu with Nami's retreival group when she should be helping the Scabbards? Same reasoning. I don't think this points to Shinobu being any more or less a potential crewmember despite her not being an official Scabbard or retainer to Oden.
Shinobu is of this arc and was introduced in it. You're leaving out the context that Carrot was written into the prior arc (WCI) and didn't have to. This pattern along with other aspects clearly differentiates her involvement from Shinobu.
Shinobu is of this arc and was introduced in it. You're leaving out the context that Carrot was written into the prior arc (WCI) and didn't have to. This pattern along with other aspects clearly differentiates her involvement from Shinobu.
Carrot is also of this arc if you haven't noticed the entire looming 'Pirate/Mink/Samurai' alliance. There is nothing to leave out if you consider her as an expository character. She's doing exactly what she has been doing for us since she stowed away on the crew - been an expository character and an unofficial voice of the Minks to the audience.
Carrot joining Nami simply continues this trend. We aren't focused on other Minks because Oda has already built up familiarity with Carrot - there doesn't need to be other Minks taking that expository role when we're down to the nitty-gritty adventure scenes. We have plenty of reactions coming from Carrot already.
I’m confused how can Aokiji be one of the Titans, when Gatz announced there were ten titans like a few pages before Jesus Burgess and BB were talking about wether they should let Aokiji join the crew?
And how come Smoker didn’t know he was one of the ten titans? I’m sure he’s probs up to date on who the Yonko’s top subordinates are, but didn’t seem to know what Aokiji was up to outside of it being shady, and literally asks him what he’s up to. If he was a Yonko’s subordinate at the time you think he would have mentioned it
Unless he became an official Titan in between when they left Punkhazard to when they got to Dressrosa
First off, nothing in Smoker's dialogue contradicts Aokiji being a titan. Smoker says he heard rumors, Aokiji answers that he's still himself. The same ambiguous talk Oda always uses when he wants to hide details.
Second, at least in the translation I remember reading, Burguess/Teach conversation seemed not about letting Aokiji join, but that Aokiji was already in but Burguess didn't trust him.
As far as I understand it, Aokiji reaching whatever rank he has in Blackbeard's crew was a fairly recent event, one Smoker had heard about but still had doubts.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
If these 2 things are it, why position her back with the crew? Those things are basically over and have served their purpose. She can easily be of help from the Musketeer group with Kinemon
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You're saying that she would be important to the arc, if she did something that no Mink could've done and would defeat the purpose of the crew being saviors. Now you're deflecting to another member of the forum?
@SeaOfHope is the one making that case for Carrot.
Listen to reasoning, re-read earlier posts in case you're confused and quit harassing me.
Carrot is also of this arc if you haven't noticed the entire looming 'Pirate/Mink/Samurai' alliance. There is nothing to leave out if you consider her as an expository character. She's doing exactly what she has been doing for us since she stowed away on the crew - been an expository character and an unofficial voice of the Minks to the audience.
Carrot joining Nami simply continues this trend. We aren't focused on other Minks because Oda has already built up familiarity with Carrot - there doesn't need to be other Minks taking that expository role when we're down to the nitty-gritty adventure scenes. We have plenty of reactions coming from Carrot already.
Carrot was introduced in Zou and Shinobu was introduced in the current arc. Carrot has served the 2 purposes that you listed. Shinobu hasn't finished her subplot because her arc isn't over. This is a clear difference. Expository characters serve their purpose, then fade into the background. Witness and Sulong have happened and those are the things you said. Inu, Neko, Sicilian, Pedro have all been voice of the Minks in different ways. They weren't kept with the crew this long.
Yes, context does matter. What is she going to do that can't be done alongside the Minks? Pekoms could've been kept with the crew, Wanda could've switched with her. She doesn't have to be where she is to do what you say is her utility is.
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@SeaOfHope is the one making that case for Carrot.
Listen to reasoning, re-read earlier posts in case you're confused and quit harassing me.
I asked a question and you're comparing it to harassment. Is this supposed to be your way out of clearing your sentiment up? I'll take this as that whole point being untrue then
Carrot was introduced in Zou and Shinobu was introduced in the current arc. Carrot has served the 2 purposes that you listed. Shinobu hasn't finished her subplot because her arc isn't over. This is a clear difference. Expository characters serve their purpose, then fade into the background. Witness and Sulong have happened and those are the things you said. Inu, Neko, Sicilian, Pedro have all been voice of the Minks in different ways. They weren't kept with the crew this long.
Yes, context does matter. What is she going to do that can't be done alongside the Minks? Pekoms could've been kept with the crew, Wanda could've switched with her. She doesn't have to be where she is to do what you say is her utility is.
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I asked a question and you're comparing it to harassment. Is this supposed to be your way out of clearing your sentiment up? I'll take this as that whole point being untrue then
I already told you that's SeaOfHope's beliefs, not main.
When you want someone to obligatory defend a point he doesn't even stands for, that's harassement.
Carrot was introduced in Zou and Shinobu was introduced in the current arc. Carrot has served the 2 purposes that you listed. Shinobu hasn't finished her subplot because her arc isn't over. This is a clear difference. Expository characters serve their purpose, then fade into the background. Witness and Sulong have happened and those are the things you said. Inu, Neko, Sicilian, Pedro have all been voice of the Minks in different ways. They weren't kept with the crew this long.
Yes, context does matter. What is she going to do that can't be done alongside the Minks? Pekoms could've been kept with the crew, Wanda could've switched with her. She doesn't have to be where she is to do what you say is her utility is.
And I answered that clearly.
She continues to be the expository character of the Minks. Wanda, Shishilian, Inu and Nekomamushi aren't exactly running side by side with the main characters. Carrot is already doing that, and she is the audience's Mink representative - the one we are all familiar with and are already has a repetoire with. She is the one Mink who wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb being part of the Momo retrieval group, considering if you threw Shishilian or Inuarashi there in the Brachio Tank it'd be awkward as hell.
So why not just have Carrot sidelined and fade out of existence? Because the Minks are still a core part of this arc, and everyone going balls-to-the-wall Sulong is still in the cards here. This means Carrot can continue being an expository character till at the very least the end of the arc. Whether she continues to adventure with the crew, either as a crewmate or an ally or other, is really up in the air. But there's no explanation for or against her being anything but an expository character thus far.
For example - We see Carrot in the Beast Pirate disguise. This alone informs us that Minks are also getting a disguise, without having to dedicate a panel showing us dozens of Minks in disguises. Just having one character who is our window into the Minks be shown doing this informs us of the whole, and she doesn't have to be WITH the Minks for this to inform us. So think of what happens if the Minks are all off-panel doing their own thing in some other area, and we see Carrot with the Strawhat crew go Sulong.
She isn't fading away because she is still relevant in Wano.
I already told you that's SeaOfHope's beliefs, not main.
When you want someone to obligatory defend a point he doesn't even stands for, that's harassement.
Is this not your post?
Needless to mention, even if Carrot didn't got caught by the Beast Pirates, nor the poison, she clearly didn't achieve much in the aftermath either.
Your stance is that she wasn't important to Zou and you back it up with this. I ask, how could she do any of this and you call it "harassment" for someone to intervene and end it because you obviously can't clear up your alternative. There is no way that Carrot could be used in a role that defeats the crew being saviors narrative. There are other alternatives that could have increased her importance in Zou, if that is where you're going, but this alternative is incorrect
Is this not your post?
Your stance is that she wasn't important to Zou and you back it up with this. I ask, how could she do any of this and you call it "harassment" for someone to intervene and end it because you obviously can't clear up your alternative. There is no way that Carrot could be used in a role that defeats the crew being saviors narrative. There are other alternatives that could have increased her importance in Zou, if that is where you're going, but this alternative is incorrect
I never said she wasn't important. Just that it doesn't seem like she was achieving stuff while everyone else was dying.
And I answered that clearly.
She continues to be the expository character of the Minks. Wanda, Shishilian, Inu and Nekomamushi aren't exactly running side by side with the main characters. Carrot is already doing that, and she is the audience's Mink representative - the one we are all familiar with and are already has a repetoire with. She is the one Mink who wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb being part of the Momo retrieval group, considering if you threw Shishilian or Inuarashi there in the Brachio Tank it'd be awkward as hell.
So why not just have Carrot sidelined and fade out of existence? Because the Minks are still a core part of this arc, and everyone going balls-to-the-wall Sulong is still in the cards here. This means Carrot can continue being an expository character till at the very least the end of the arc. Whether she continues to adventure with the crew, either as a crewmate or an ally or other, is really up in the air. But there's no explanation for or against her being anything but an expository character thus far.
She isn't fading away because she and the Minks are still relevant in Wano.
Exactly the point. Why make her familiar with the audience when there are so many other Mink leaders being highlighted in this battle? Sicilian jumps up to hear the plan as the representative of the Musketeers, Neko brings allies and Inu is with the Scabbards. What other purpose can be served that isn't SH related? She
The speculated exposition is over. The Scabbrd and WB Pirate allies are front and center. We've seen Sulong, so there is no purpose to see her do it again for the crew. Pedro died to aide the crew and that is over. Minks are are being utilized in the way that you are saying that Carrot is meant to be used. The writer has kept us up to date with all of these threads consistently. We understand the importance of the Minks and there is nothing left to explain. Yet, Carrot is placed there.
We just came from Shinobu gaining more depth in the flashback. She is with the crew due to the immediate issue and further developing as a Kozuki ally. Carrot has no immediate narrative outside of being of help to the crew. She just faded into only 3 appearances for most of the arc and didn't come back until the Onigashima infiltration started.
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I never said she wasn't important. Just that it doesn't seem like she was achieving stuff while everyone else was dying.
That's why I ask, what can she do that doesn't destroy the savior narrative? There are other parts of the arc that she can be of more importance as an alternative. The part where everyone is dying isn't it.
Just like there are other cases to say that Carrot is too weak to face Daifuku. Saying that she was intentionally avoiding him, when she just went there to create an opening by disrupting the fleet isn't a case because there's no relevancy.
Carrot is also of this arc if you haven't noticed the entire looming 'Pirate/Mink/Samurai' alliance. There is nothing to leave out if you consider her as an expository character. She's doing exactly what she has been doing for us since she stowed away on the crew - been an expository character and an unofficial voice of the Minks to the audience.
Carrot joining Nami simply continues this trend. We aren't focused on other Minks because Oda has already built up familiarity with Carrot - there doesn't need to be other Minks taking that expository role when we're down to the nitty-gritty adventure scenes. We have plenty of reactions coming from Carrot already.
How is Carrot an expository character? The only scene from her extensive screentime that someone could argue to be expository was her Sulong transformation, which could also be seen as a personal highlight when she saved the day.
For comparison, Wanda is an expository character (during Zou), someone who is there to dump information, explain concepts and that's it.
Carrot up until now acted on her own behalf and she spends most of her time bonding with the crew and engaging in the action, things that are beyond exposition and function more as an end in themselves than means for anythng else. She's not a voice for the minks as some sort of diplomat onboard the Sunny as none of her actions were in the name of her folk. She didn't stow away to pay a debt because the Strawhats saved Zou. Who did that was Pedro. Carrot did it for herself because she wanted to live an adventure in the sea.
And that's what she is still doing right now. We didn't see Inuarashi or Shishilian telling Carrot to follow Nami as a part of their division. Instead, it's more like Carrot moving around freely as she pleases and choosing her own personal role in that battle. Meanwhile, the narrative is deliberately framing Carrot as part of the "Strawhat group" through establishing shots.
All in all, there's a lot of investment in Carrot from the writing since WCI which makes comparisons difficult, because you can't compare her to minor characters (she's not) and you also can't compare her to characters whose personal agenda is much more obvious as well as their conclusion.
Exactly the point. Why make her familiar with the audience when there are so many other Mink leaders being highlighted in this battle? Sicilian jumps up to hear the plan as the representative of the Musketeers, Neko brings allies and Inu is with the Scabbards. What other purpose can be served that isn't SH related? She
The speculated exposition is over. The Scabbrd and WB Pirate allies are front and center. We've seen Sulong, so there is no purpose to see her do it again for the crew. Pedro died to aide the crew and that is over. Minks are are being utilized in the way that you are saying that Carrot is meant to be used. The writer has kept us up to date with all of these threads consistently. We understand the importance of the Minks and there is nothing left to explain. Yet, Carrot is placed there.
We just came from Shinobu gaining more depth in the flashback. She is with the crew due to the immediate issue and further developing as a Kozuki ally. Carrot has no immediate narrative outside of being of help to the crew. She just faded into only 3 appearances for most of the arc and didn't come back until the Onigashima infiltration started.
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That's why I ask, what can she do that doesn't destroy the savior narrative? There are other parts of the arc that she can be of more importance as an alternative. The part where everyone is dying isn't it.
Just like there are other cases to say that Carrot is too weak to face Daifuku. Saying that she was intentionally avoiding him, when she just went there to create an opening by disrupting the fleet isn't a case because there's no relevancy.
I personally believe she was caught by the poison and oowee let's get figurative and open the dictionary for better descriptors. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/dislike?s=t
I repeat, SeaOfHope is the one who believes she was performing some other task. So ask him.
Exactly the point. Why make her familiar with the audience when there are so many other Mink leaders being highlighted in this battle?
I updated my previous post with an example that you may not be aware of
"For example - We see Carrot in the Beast Pirate disguise. This alone informs us that Minks are also getting a disguise, without having to dedicate a panel showing us dozens of Minks in disguises. Just having one character who is our window into the Minks be shown doing this informs us of the whole, and she doesn't have to be WITH the Minks for this to inform us. So think of what happens if the Minks are all off-panel doing their own thing in some other area, and we see Carrot with the Strawhat crew go Sulong."
This is a way to build up anticipation without spoiling the full reveal. What we know out of one character, we can infer applies to the rest. If Sulong is something that happens to all Minks, and the Minks are off-panelled, then we infer that big things are happening without Oda having to show us the details (which happens ALL the time).
This hypes up an actual reveal of the Mink characters in their Sulong forms without having it literally in our face when it's about to happen. Instead we see one character who we've already seen be in Sulong form, but the context only makes it that much more exciting, without having to dedicate a whole panel/chapter to showing the Minks going into Sulong if say Carrot were off-panelled as well.
It's the same with Yamato and how some people have already inferred an Oden connection purely based on his chains and back-knot design, despite him saying nothing about Oden. It's the anticipation it builds without actually revealing everything up front.
If Sulong is the climax of the Mink's powers, then I can see (as in, one possibility) Carrot's entire purpose being meant to travel with the Straw Hats and be our indicator for when Sulong is going to happen, even if the Minks aren't around for it to happen. She would be the exposition for the event without having to break up the pacing of the story to show each group doing their own thing. The focus of the story can stay with Nami/Sanji's group until that very moment.
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How is Carrot an expository character?
Read the above reply.
Minks are all being off-panelled. Carrot is still with the crew. This means the story can stay focused with the crew, and we can still know when the Minks go Sulong as long as Carrot is the one that shows us when it's time. The pacing of the story doesn't have to break to show off-panel events, it can stay pace and build up towards a bigger reveal later.
I personally believe she was caught by the poison and ooowee let's get figurative and open the dictionary for better descriptors. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/dislike?s=t
What in the story hints at this? She was barely in the flashback. I haven't seen anything sexual, where did you get that from?
Kinemon for example. Before we knew the revelation of him being Momo's retainer, who was he?
- Mysterious Samurai of Wano
- Interesting design
- Strong swordsman who uses 2 swords
- Can cut fire
- Has interesting fruit power, even fits 2-9 theory
- has Talking Farts gag
- Is looking for his friends and his son
- Travels with the strawhats through many arcs
Also Luffy invited him to join the crew immediately.
What in the story hints at this? She was barely in the flashback. I haven't seen anything sexual, where did you get that from?
Several Minks weren't seen either, nothing special about Carrot here.
Also Luffy invited him to join the crew immediately.
Wasn't that just to his legs? I can't exactly give him full credit, but I'm willing to give him half
I updated my previous post with an example that you may not be aware of
"For example - We see Carrot in the Beast Pirate disguise. This alone informs us that Minks are also getting a disguise, without having to dedicate a panel showing us dozens of Minks in disguises. Just having one character who is our window into the Minks be shown doing this informs us of the whole, and she doesn't have to be WITH the Minks for this to inform us. So think of what happens if the Minks are all off-panel doing their own thing in some other area, and we see Carrot with the Strawhat crew go Sulong."
We seen the other Minks (ch. 979) and they didn't get the Beast Pirate clothes. We are being updated on their whereabouts through Sicilian and Kinemon, Neko and Marco, plus Inu and the other Scabbards. This example further proves that she doesn't link us to the Minks in this expository manner. She indeed differentiated from them and that is the opposite of your sentiment.
This is a way to build up anticipation without spoiling the full reveal. What we know out of one character, we can infer applies to the rest. If Sulong is something that happens to all Minks, and the Minks are off-panelled, then we infer that big things are happening without Oda having to show us the details (which happens ALL the time).
It is true that she can serve this purpose. The issue is that we are constantly updated on them as I said in the last paragraph, so that way of utilizing her isn't correct
This hypes up an actual reveal of the Mink characters in their Sulong forms without having it literally in our face when it's about to happen. Instead we see one character who we've already seen be in Sulong form, but the context only makes it that much more exciting, without having to dedicate a whole panel/chapter to showing the Minks going into Sulong if say Carrot were off-panelled as well.
It's the same with Yamato and how some people have already inferred an Oden connection purely based on his chains and back-knot design, despite him saying nothing about Oden. It's the anticipation it builds without actually revealing everything up front.
If Sulong is the climax of the Mink's powers, then I can see Carrot's entire purpose being meant to travel with the Straw Hats and be our indicator for when Sulong is going to happen, even if the Minks aren't around for it to happen. She is the catalyst for the event without having to break up the pacing of the story to show each group doing their own thing. The focus of the story can stay with Nami/Sanji's group until that very moment.
We got the transformation from her and Pekoms in different capacities already. Her display of Sulong worked as an introduction to how it is visually, but it fails as signaling to the reader because we are constantly update on the Minks through 3 other narratives
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Several Minks weren't seen either, nothing special about Carrot here.
I didn't say she was special because of her absence. I'm asking what hints at her ooowee let's get figurative and open the dictionary for better descriptors. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/dislike?s=t to you? She was missing for a good part of that and I don't see the clues there
I didn't say she was special because of her absence. I'm asking what hints at her ooowee let's get figurative and open the dictionary for better descriptors. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/dislike?s=t to you? She was missing for a good part of that and I don't see the clues there
Figuratively speaking*
16 chars.
It is true that she can serve this purpose. The issue is that we are constantly updated on them as I said in the last paragraph, so that way of utilizing her isn't correct
We got the transformation from her and Pekoms in different capacities already. Her display of Sulong worked as an introduction to how it is visually, but it fails as signaling to the reader because we are constantly update on the Minks through 3 other narratives
We are constantly updated right now, before the big 1-on-1 fights are happening. Once that happens the pace of the story may change and we might not have tons of updates left-right-and-center on where everyone is and what everyone is doing. Just look at Marineford and Dressrosa arcs when the chaos was happening.
You asked what what Carrot's purpose is to be with the crew, and I provided a legitimate reason why she could be there despite the idea that 'her Arc is over and she should fade into the background'. I can't legitimately back this claim any more than I could suggest she should be fading into obscurity after WCI. These are suppositions, after all.
I updated my previous post with an example that you may not be aware of
"For example - We see Carrot in the Beast Pirate disguise. This alone informs us that Minks are also getting a disguise, without having to dedicate a panel showing us dozens of Minks in disguises. Just having one character who is our window into the Minks be shown doing this informs us of the whole, and she doesn't have to be WITH the Minks for this to inform us. So think of what happens if the Minks are all off-panel doing their own thing in some other area, and we see Carrot with the Strawhat crew go Sulong."
This is a way to build up anticipation without spoiling the full reveal. What we know out of one character, we can infer applies to the rest. If Sulong is something that happens to all Minks, and the Minks are off-panelled, then we infer that big things are happening without Oda having to show us the details (which happens ALL the time).
Except that the minks didn't get the disguise as we actually saw them and they were using their normal clothes, lol.
Anyway, even if it's just your example that is a mistake, the reason behind it is also rather shaky to say the least. You're saying that anything that Carrot does is merely an avatar for the rest of the minks when that couldn't be farther from the truth. Most of her participion in this raid is exclusive to her and cannot be generalized, so you can't simply reduce her entire portrayal to the few instances when what happens to her also happens to the rest of her race.
And all of this is ignoring past arcs like WCI.
This hypes up an actual reveal of the Mink characters in their Sulong forms without having it literally in our face when it's about to happen. Instead we see one character who we've already seen be in Sulong form, but the context only makes it that much more exciting, without having to dedicate a whole panel/chapter to showing the Minks going into Sulong if say Carrot were off-panelled as well.
If Sulong is the climax of the Mink's powers, then I can see Carrot's entire purpose being meant to travel with the Straw Hats and be our indicator for when Sulong is going to happen, even if the Minks aren't around for it to happen. She is the catalyst for the event without having to break up the pacing of the story to show each group doing their own thing. The focus of the story can stay with Nami/Sanji's group until that very moment.
And this is honestly naive, and not because of Carrot.
When the minks go Sulong, I bet my soul that Oda will draw the entire tribe going Sulong (or at least the ones that can). Of course, he won't draw 1v1 fights for all of them, but there'll be at least one doublepage with all of them looking like a fearsome army of beasts, if not a whole chapter showing them changing the tides of the battle by overcoming an important obstacle.
I can guarantee you that Carrot is not there to spare Oda of the trouble of showing the other minks going Sulong.
Read the above reply.
Minks are all being off-panelled. Carrot is still with the crew. This means the story can stay focused with the crew, and we can still know when the Minks go Sulong as long as Carrot is the one that shows us when it's time. The pacing of the story doesn't have to break to show off-panel events, it can stay pace and build up towards a bigger reveal later.
I just replied to eveything else above, but I'd like to point out that your argument didn't really adress my point that Carrot is not an expository character when my argument was that most of her screentime for more than a hundred chapter was on her own behalf.
First off, nothing in Smoker's dialogue contradicts Aokiji being a titan. Smoker says he heard rumors, Aokiji answers that he's still himself. The same ambiguous talk Oda always uses when he wants to hide details.
It was Doflamingo that said he heard rumors.
Second, at least in the translation I remember reading, Burguess/Teach conversation seemed not about letting Aokiji join, but that Aokiji was already in but Burguess didn't trust him.
The official translation goes like this; Blackbeard: "ze ha ha ha! doesn't that go for shiryu as well?" Burgess: "yeah, but I just can't bring myself…...to trust aokiji's word on this!!"
I'm really not sure what to make of that. It could be that Aokiji is a "titan" or just that he is working with them as it was implied that Aokiji is involved with the "black market" in the same chapter Doflamingo said he heard rumors that aren't good.
The only one thing for sure in BB and Aokiji's affiliation, is that Teach keeps Aokiji around for his fruit.
It was Doflamingo that said he heard rumors.
Oh, yes, I'm mixing the dialogues.
The official translation goes like this; Blackbeard: "ze ha ha ha! doesn't that go for shiryu as well?" Burgess: "yeah, but I just can't bring myself…...to trust aokiji's word on this!!"
I'm really not sure what to make of that. It could be that Aokiji is a "titan" or just that he is working with them as it was implied that Aokiji is involved with the "black market" in the same chapter Doflamingo said he heard rumors that aren't good.
Thanks again.
I think Aokiji may be the 10th Titan because the reveal would be more impactful. He then being replaced by someone else (like Bakkin/Weevil) would then allow us to know the "true" tenth Titan before he/she joins BB's crew. It's a better dynamic than just revealing someone we never heard about before.
I just replied to eveything else above, but I'd like to point out that your argument didn't really adress my point that Carrot is not an expository character when my argument was that most of her screentime for more than a hundred chapter was on her own behalf.
Of course it would be specific to her, she is still her own character. My reply is in context of why she is with the strawhats still if we are to believe she is a side character, and I am offering a possible reason beyond simply having her 'fade back with the rest of the minks'.
I am not saying Oda will use Carrot to avoid showing Sulong, I said he could use her as a inferral/transitional means to do so.
I mean think of it this way - if she is a side character how would you explain her being with the strawhats? What purpose would she fill?
As for not being an expository character - what exactly has she amounted to on a personal level otherwise? We are a few hundred chapters into her being with the crew and we still know absolutely NOTHING about her personal story. The two most important things we associate her with? The two expository moments you brought up. I am not belittling her situation here, but everything we see and know about her is very surface-level interaction, on the level of side characters and allies.
We are constantly updated right now, before the big 1-on-1 fights are happening. Once that happens the pace of the story may change and we might not have tons of updates left-right-and-center on where everyone is and what everyone is doing. Just look at Marineford and Dressrosa arcs when the chaos was happening.
You asked what what Carrot's purpose is to be with the crew, and I provided a legitimate reason why she could be there despite the idea that 'her Arc is over and she should fade into the background'. I can't legitimately back this claim any more than I could suggest she should be fading into obscurity after WCI. These are suppositions, after all.
Based on the flow of this arc, Neko and Inu are similar to Kyros in the Dressrosa arc. Who gets a 1 vs 1 is very different from earlier arcs where we have this many side characters. With a lot of this riding on the Scabbard's revenge, I don't think this goes away from them. Especially with them being so spread apart. If it was just Sicilian losing focus, then that would be the case. Instead, Kinemon's group, Law's group and Marco/Neko all are weighing heavy here
Based on the flow of this arc, Neko and Inu are similar to Kyros in the Dressrosa arc. Who gets a 1 vs 1 is very different from earlier arcs where we have this many side characters. With a lot of this riding on the Scabbard's revenge, I don't think this goes away from them. Especially with them being so spread apart. If it was just Sicilian losing focus, then that would be the case. Instead, Kinemon's group, Law's group and Marco/Neko all are weighing heavy here
Right, but none of them actually take away or add to Carrot's position with the Straw Hats. If anything it's like you said, the 1v1 is a lot different now with so many side characters. We've even seen this more recently with a lot of single character fights shifting to side characters having their day (Robin -> Kyros vs Diamante).
There isn't really any rhyme or reason why she is with Nami, or why she isn't with the Minks. It doesn't indicate anything beyond what we're all boiling down to - big fights across the board. All I can suppose is Carrot is sticking with the crew as a means to show when Sulong is going to happen, without having to check up on Shishilian and Inu and the rest of the Minks along the way.
I'm not saying exposition HAS to be the reason she is there - I am very strong on my stance that characters don't NEED explanation for why they are where they are. It's just Oda's whims, for his own purposes. We have many situations in the past where characters just end up being there at the right moment and time, either to tag along or to save the crew or whatever. At the end of the day, characters all help the crew because they view the Strawhats as friends and allies, and that's all the reason Carrot needs to be with Nami and Shinobu.
What I am doing is offering a plausible author-cventric motivation why Oda might want Carrot to be with the crew in lieu of simply having her disappear from the story. There is nothing specific about her being with Nami and the Momo retrieval group - she doesn't have a strong connection to Momo or anything. The rival she seems to have most connection to is Perospero, and honestly that's something I don't have much of an opinion on since it's still to early to see whar Perospero's role/intentions are going to be in this arc. By all means - Carrot is just going with the flow and doing what she's always been show doing without any real foreshadowing to bigger events.
Of course it would be specific to her, she is still her own character. My reply is in context of why she is with the strawhats still if we are to believe she is a side character, and I am offering a possible reason beyond simply having her 'fade back with the rest of the minks'.
I am not saying Oda will use Carrot to avoid showing Sulong, I said he could use her as a inferral/transitional means to do so.
I mean think of it this way - if she is a side character how would you explain her being with the strawhats? What purpose would she fill?
I understand the value of trying to look at things from different points of reference, but this backwards way of thinking can lead to incongruencies as much as it can be interesting. The main issue is that it leads to confirmation bias since we're putting what's supposed to be the conclusion in the position of the premise.
If we discuss her role in the narrative from the premise that Carrot is a side character, we can only look at the events that corroborate that possibility and we can only project participation that corroborate that possibility, therefore we can't look at the complete picture and the discussion becomes pointless. It's an exercise for which no answer will be productive. The same is true if we use the premise that Carrot will become a Strawhat.
Anyway, I know why you're doing that. You want to answer why is Carrot here with the Strawhats without falling into any bias, so you tackle the same question from both the premises that she is a side character or that she is not a side character.
But this is particularly confusing because "side character" is such a vague concept. What's a side character? What are the limits of a side character? What's in the realm of action of a side character?
You see, I can't really answer your question if I don't know to which extent I can project her participation for this exercise. What can't she do in this raid as a side character because it would make her not a side character?
Right, but none of them actually take away or add to Carrot's position with the Straw Hats. If anything it's like you said, the 1v1 is a lot different now with so many side characters. We've even seen this more recently with a lot of single character fights shifting to side characters having their day (Robin -> Kyros vs Diamante).
There isn't really any rhyme or reason why she is with Nami, or why she isn't with the Minks. It doesn't indicate anything beyond what we're all boiling down to - big fights across the board. All I can suppose is Carrot is sticking with the crew as a means to show when Sulong is going to happen, without having to check up on Shishilian and Inu and the rest of the Minks along the way.
I'm not saying exposition HAS to be the reason she is there - I am very strong on my stance that characters don't NEED explanation for why they are where they are. It's just Oda's whims, for his own purposes. We have many situations in the past where characters just end up being there at the right moment and time, either to tag along or to save the crew or whatever. At the end of the day, characters all help the crew because they view the Strawhats as friends and allies, and that's all the reason Carrot needs to be with Nami and Shinobu.
There is another narrative going on tho. Shinobu is shown in the flashback trying to prove herself as a Kozuki ally/Scabbard. Neko and Inu were curious of the Kozuki, but also were curious of the world and simultaneously were wanting an adventure.
We have Momo who denied the sword that he was supposed to receive. He has tried to prove himself as well. There is a chance that Shinobu and Carrot are both on the path to being Momo's retainers. There are missing components on Carrot's behalf, but outside of possibly being a nakama, I can see this as why she is positioned the way that she is
The Dressrosa residents served the same narrative as Bellamy. Who is the right "king" to depend on. They are shown fighting for Doffy and also cheering on Luffy later on. Bellamy went from begging Doffy for another chance to making sure Luffy is the right choice. So, I get that characters can be used to symbolize a running theme or just serving as exposition
I understand the value of trying to look at things from different points of reference, but this backwards way of thinking can lead to incongruencies as much as it can be interesting. The main issue is that it leads to confirmation bias since we're putting what's supposed to be the conclusion in the position of the premise.
If we discuss her role in the narrative from the premise that Carrot is a side character, we can only look at the events that corroborate that possibility and we can only project participation that corroborate that possibility, therefore we can't look at the complete picture and the discussion becomes pointless. It's an exercise for which no answer will be productive. The same is true if we use the premise that Carrot will become a Strawhat.
Anyway, I know why you're doing that. You want to answer why is Carrot here with the Strawhats without falling into any bias, so you tackle the same question from both the premises that she is a side character or that she is not a side character.
Then you need to know that the context of my replies are as important, if not more so, than the message you are gleaning here.
Case in point - You seem to think that my argument leads to confirmation bias towards her being a Side character by supposing that she is one. Well, if you look in my post history, you will see that I have argued for Carrot being a possible crewmate far more than I have argued against her. I am not confirming any bias because I don't harbour any bias at all - I view Carrot for what she is. And if we are going to have any debate on what she could be, then we have to be open to both sides of possibilities and not just look at it from one view.
What I'm doing isn't proposing a narrative, even if it looks like it out of context. What I'm responding to is the question of 'why would Carrot be with the Strawhats for this long when she should just fade away after her arc'. I am creating an argument that IF we valued her as an intentionally placed sidecharacter, then these are the possible narrative-driven reasons why she is still front-and-center with the crew. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by opening up to this possibility, even if you think it's a backwards way of thinking. This is one of the only ways to really analyze a situation - by looking at it from all angles and seeing if we can make sense of it either way. Cuz at the end of the day this isn't a math equation with one finite answer. There are many things that have happened in the story that ended up having zero resolution, and we're just left to interpret whether Oda intentionally planned it to happen this way or if it's some glaring oversight that we're all supposed to blindly praise him on because of our own biases that Oda is a great story-teller who's gonna do something magical later on.
But this is particularly confusing because "side character" is such a vague concept. What's a side character? What are the limits of a side character? What's in the realm of action of a side character?
I wouldn't stick too closely to semantics, but considering the vagueness of the term, I'll do my best to explain. A side character is a tertiary character in the story. Not main character, not secondary. IE- Not a Strawhat crewmate. There are no limits or criteria to it, because the concept itself is not defined by 'limits'. A more specific term is Strawhat Ally, if you prefer. To me, she is a supporting side character, because the crux of the story does not revolve around her. As soon as someone joins the crew though? Their place is permanently elevated to the forefront of the story alongside Luffy, who is defacto main character, so by association they could be considered secondary supporting characters. A temporary traveller like Law, Kinemon and Johnny/Yosaku are not the primary focus of the story, making them important Side characters, but side characters nonetheless. This is my use of the definition, if it helps.
You see, I can't really answer your question if I don't know to which extent I can project her participation for this exercise. What can't she do in this raid as a side character because it would make her not a side character?
She can do anything. There is no limit. The point is - If her story does not continue to the end of the series then she is not a main character, the way we are going to be focusing on the Straw hat crew in its entirity. Even some honorary Strawhat like Vivi is not a main character. A character who hasn't joined the crew till recently like Jinbe will likely be elevated to Main/Secondary status due to his much-greater presence in the story moving forward, well into the end of the series.
Characters who reoccur and have an important role in the story but are not front-and-center of the story (Shanks, Vivi) are not main characters. The main story does not center around them being present. The main story does focus on the Crewmates, even if there are times when they are split up.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
There is another narrative going on tho. Shinobu is shown in the flashback trying to prove herself as a Kozuki ally/Scabbard. Neko and Inu were curious of the Kozuki, but also were curious of the world and simultaneously were wanting an adventure.
We have Momo who denied the sword that he was supposed to receive. He has tried to prove himself as well. There is a chance that Shinobu and Carrot are both on the path to being Momo's retainers. There are missing components on Carrot's behalf, but outside of possibly being a nakama, I can see this as why she is positioned the way that she is
I can get behind this theory. All in all, I think we're both in agreement that with the factors at play, it doesn't really push Carrot to be defined by her actions being with the crew. There's enough room for Oda to make anything he wants out of her, be it a Strawhat Crewmate, a Nox Pirate, a Kozuki Retainer or simply remain as a Guardian of Zou.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
That is not a sexual talk…
Don't fall for CockyCent's child game.. just dont.
Monquito, Cockycent.
Official warning on the language.
Clearly Cockycent was following and essentially quoting Monquito, but there are plenty of ways of getting your point across without resorting to that. Saying someone sucks is fine, getting sexual "figuratively" or not is not what we're about here.
Then you need to know that the context of my replies are as important, if not more so, than the message you are gleaning here.
Case in point - You seem to think that my argument leads to confirmation bias towards her being a Side character by supposing that she is one. Well, if you look in my post history, you will see that I have argued for Carrot being a possible crewmate far more than I have argued against her. I am not confirming any bias because I don't harbour any bias at all - I view Carrot for what she is. And if we are going to have any debate on what she could be, then we have to be open to both sides of possibilities and not just look at it from one view.
What I'm doing isn't proposing a narrative, even if it looks like it out of context. What I'm responding to is the question of 'why would Carrot be with the Strawhats for this long when she should just fade away after her arc'. I am creating an argument that IF we valued her as an intentionally placed sidecharacter, then these are the possible narrative-driven reasons why she is still front-and-center with the crew. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by opening up to this possibility, even if you think it's a backwards way of thinking. This is one of the only ways to really analyze a situation - by looking at it from all angles and seeing if we can make sense of it either way. Cuz at the end of the day this isn't a math equation with one finite answer. There are many things that have happened in the story that ended up having zero resolution, and we're just left to interpret whether Oda intentionally planned it to happen this way or if it's some glaring oversight that we're all supposed to blindly praise him on because of our own biases that Oda is a great story-teller who's gonna do something magical later on.
I'm not saying that you have a bias. I'm saying that this method of analysis can only lead to confirmation bias because the entire point of the endeavor is to confirm the premise. The bias is the premise.
I wouldn't stick too closely to semantics, but considering the vagueness of the term, I'll do my best to explain. A side character is a tertiary character in the story. Not main character, not secondary. IE- Not a Strawhat crewmate. There are no limits or criteria to it, because the concept itself is not defined by 'limits'. A more specific term is Strawhat Ally, if you prefer. To me, they are one and the same, because the crux of the story does not revolve around a non-Strawhat character even if there are arcs that center around particular notable non-crewmembers. As soon as someone joins the crew though? I would not consider them a side character any more. This is my elaboration on my use of the definition, if it helps.
Okay. But I don't agree with your definition.
In a story like One Piece, it's extremely fluid who's side and who's main character, maybe except for Luffy, who is always main character.
As much as non-Luffy Strawhats are part of the long-term journey, they become tertiary characters all the time because many arcs don't revolve around them at all. And it actually happens that sometimes Oda writes an arc without half of the crew and it just doesn't matter.
I'm making this distinction because I can't really ground my expectations for a character based on whether or not he/she is a Strawhat crewmate. Actually, no, I'm lying. What I usually can expect from a Strawhat is at least some screentime regardless of its consequence to the plot and some action scenes (maybe a fight). Funnily enough, but not to prove anything, that's exactly what happened to Carrot during WCI, who got the same portrayal as the other Strawhats throughout that arc for no expository reason. And perhaps that's what's about to happen in Onigashima again by the look of things.
So, if a Strawhat can become a tertiary character and a non-Strawhat can have the same importance of a main character, then my answer to your original question doesn't change at all regardless of whether or not Carrot joins the crew.
Then "how would I explain her being here with the Strawhats?". Well, I would explain it not because Carrot is a Strawhat or not. My explanation is that she's got her own personal storyline which is still ongoing.
As I said before, the line between main and side character is fluid. One Piece is made of many intersecting stories with many characters who are the protagonists of their own personal storylines. That includes Strawhats and non-Strawhats. PS: it's important to note that not all characters get their personal storylines, because most of them are only side characters to other characters' storylines.
I see Carrot as one of those, and her storyline is still ongoing. That's important. So she needs to be positioned near the spotlight in order to finish her development and play her role.
If she's going to become a Strawhat is just another question to me.
Oh, yes, I'm mixing the dialogues.
Thanks again.
I think Aokiji may be the 10th Titan because the reveal would be more impactful. He then being replaced by someone else (like Bakkin/Weevil) would then allow us to know the "true" tenth Titan before he/she joins BB's crew. It's a better dynamic than just revealing someone we never heard about before.
I doubt Aokiji is the 10th Titan. The Ten Titanic Captains are known entities. If Aokiji was one of them then Smoker wouldn't need to question he what was doing on Punk Hazard.
I doubt Aokiji is the 10th Titan. The Ten Titanic Captains are known entities. If Aokiji was one of them then Smoker wouldn't need to question he what was doing on Punk Hazard.
Smoker questioned what a "warlord" was doing on Punk Hazard… I doubt he is one of them but Oda could have decided he would be one in Dressrosa and in chapter 793 it is further suggested that he might be one.
I'm not saying that you have a bias. I'm saying that this method of analysis can only lead to confirmation bias because the entire point of the endeavor is to confirm the premise. The bias is the premise.
Yes but there's no way to have any analysis without some sort of bias. The alternative is simply not having any premise at all, which I am absolutely in favour of but you can't really present ideas without any common ground to discuss.
In context of the discussion, I'm presenting potential narrative reasons for a character to be present. The alternative can always be 'Carrot just being Carrot' but no one seems to accept that as a credible answer if you look at the discussion history here. It's always met with the same rhetoric of 'she's gotta be different because she's so ever-present with no reason why!' by supporters here, and I'm trying to open up to a plausible narrative reason why she is with the crew beyond 'Carrot is just unfolding her own storyline', which itself is a non-answer.
Okay. But I don't agree with your definition.
I'm fine with this. You are right, the situation is absolutely fluid, and that's the problem with giving anything a label. But at the same time, we aren't going to make any distinction between a Crewmember and a Non-crewmember without simply addressing as such, and that ends up being even less variably defineable in a narrative sense considering there are literally no lines to draw between who can be a Crewmember and who would not. There is no criteria there, since it's something Oda defines, period. So again, I don't see there being an alternative to address a non-Crewmember in a narrative sense other than a loose term like 'Side character', and you even point out that it's absolutely fluid. At least the term I used would at the very least indicate characters who are not the primary protagonist or the center-focus of the story.
I see Carrot as one of those, and her storyline is still ongoing. That's important. So she needs to be positioned near the spotlight in order to finish her development and play her role.
If she's going to become a Strawhat is just another question to me.
To be frank - What story would that be? There is only one question that really is in the air here, and it's 'Why is Carrot with the Straw hats so much'. Other than that her personal story… is not even interesting to the reader. Because she doesn't have one. It's never in the spotlight, she just happens to be there. There is never an underlying motive behind her actions as far as the readers know. To say that she needs to develop is an understatement, considering after all this time she is still literally a blank slate with paper-thin motives, paper-thin background history and absolutely no character development having suffered a huge tragedy like Pedro's death. There has been zero development on her front, and the ONLY exposition we've really seen that has been personal to her so far has been Sulong form. Every other instance, she's never really been in the spotlight at all. She's never had any moments to herself.
I wish she DID have more of a storyline so it could be developed, but as far as I'm seeing it as a reader, she doesn't have a storyline at all and there is nothing to develop. She is absolutely one-dimensional as far as how she has been portrayed in the story so far.
I don't remember this being said. Is this from the wikia? What is said in the chapter doesn't align with how the wikia worded it
Hitetsu - "It must have been nearly four years ago now… Even then, this village was lacking for food... People even starved to death from time to time... But just when we thought there was no hope left... // A pirate ship washed up on the shore nearby
Hitetsu: Though it is just the two of us now, there was once a settlement here by the name of Amigasa Village. Over a year ago… A new "Headliner" by the name of X Drake joined Kaidou's army. // He defeated the five samurai who were this village's prime defenders ...and destroyed the entire village.
wikia - "Around a year ago, Beasts Pirates Headliner X Drake came and destroyed Amigasa Village. Hitetsu stayed in the ruins of the village in order to wait for someone, and a young girl named Tama stayed with him to wait for Ace"
Edit
Hitetsu: There are places where she could have a slightly easier life... ...but she insists on waiting here...! For a pirate by the name of Ace... who promised he would return......!!
Yeah, i'm not seeing where they could have gotten Hitetsu becoming her master a year ago from. He clearly states that he was there for the Ace moment. Unless Tama has said that she's only been training for a year
That doesn't seem to be either Viz, Jbox or mangastreams translation, where did you find it?
And no, not from the wikia lmao.
regarding "when we thought there was no hope left", thats "we" as in all the people in the village, not just tama and hitetsu.
My interpretation is that since Hitetsu says she could have lived elsewhere, that means he didnt have any responsibility for her until they both were the only ones left in the village. Tama didn't stay in the village because of Hitetsu, but because of Ace. If he was her guardian prior to the incident then it wouldnt make sense for Hitetsu saying she could be staying elsewhere lol
Sure he could have still been her master prior to this, but I think it makes more sense for him to have become her master and guardian at the same time.
To be frank - What story would that be? There is only one question that really is in the air here, and it's 'Why is Carrot with the Straw hats so much'. Other than that her personal story… is not even interesting to the reader. Because she doesn't have one. It's never in the spotlight, she just happens to be there. There is never an underlying motive behind her actions as far as the readers know. To say that she needs to develop is an understatement, considering after all this time she is still literally a blank slate with paper-thin motives, paper-thin background history and absolutely no character development having suffered a huge tragedy like Pedro's death. There has been zero development on her front, and the ONLY exposition we've really seen that has been personal to her so far has been Sulong form. Every other instance, she's never really been in the spotlight at all. She's never had any moments to herself.
I wish she DID have more of a storyline so it could be developed, but as far as I'm seeing it as a reader, she doesn't have a storyline at all and there is nothing to develop. She is absolutely one-dimensional as far as how she has been portrayed in the story so far.
I agree with some of it, but not to that extent.
Carrot does need development and it'd be cool if she had conflict from which she would become more robust. But even this is controversial since not all Strawhats are driven by a concrete thematic conflict. Anyway, I don't want to make a case for Carrot by diminishing other crewmates.
Her journey is quite clearly a coming-of-age story and a quest for self-discovery. It can't get more symbolic than she dreaming to go on an adventure at sea. And she wants to be of help to others. And she looks up to others like an apprentice as even Chopper became like a big brother figure to her. All very vague, but also relatable and realistic, and a good foundating as a starting point before her character becomes ready.
More importantly, those broader concepts are now merging with another kind of self-discovery which is about her own roots and the Dawn. Pedro's last words to her tell that "someday you'll understand the true importance of keeping Luffy and his crew alive here so that their voyage can go on". Sometimes we see people missing the point of those words, because the real point is not that Carrot should merely help them, but that Carrot should understand why someday.
That's quite obviously a seed for growth if that knowledge is something that will shape her purpose in life. What we call development.
As for all the rest, Carrot doesn't lack characterization and I disagree that everything about her is paper-thin. She's shown many traits already from emotional range to different quirks. She's capable in many different aspects. She was shown bonding with different members of the crew individually (although not yet with the Dressrosa faction). I see people arguing that she's a blank slate, which is true to some extent, but not so much as to be an enigma with no build up. More importantly, her overall portrayal has been as one of the main heroes who engage in the juicy parts of a shonen series. How is that not the spotlight?
