! Something will happen …Eventually
Kingdom
-
-
Ousen is literally the "according to keikaku" guy but I like it. It's just after Zhao's and Riboku's eventual defeat, I dunno if any worthy adversaries will be left for him to face? Maybe in Chu?
-
Ousen is literally the "according to keikaku" guy but I like it. It's just after Zhao's and Riboku's eventual defeat, I dunno if any worthy adversaries will be left for him to face? Maybe in Chu?
Karin though I expect her main rival will be Moubu so guessing Chu legendary general Kousen.
-
Thats the type of chapter i expect from kingdom.
-
This Chapter of Hajime no Ippo sure was weird but Miyatas counter strikes again!
-
This is the Kingdom thread.
-
-
Oh. Okay then. I don't read Ippo, but I guess it's something it would be there, yeah.
-
Oh. Okay then. I don't read Ippo, but I guess it's something it would be there, yeah.
I don't blame you for not picking up on that, I barely ever post so hard to get much of a read I'd imagine.
-
Ousen repeats his favorite strategy
-
Duke Hyou appreciation chapter>>>>>>>>
-
I like it, thats what Kingdom is about.
-
So I watched the movie and besides watching shounen translated into real life being certain cringe worthy at some points,
The casting was great. Terrible use of transition though.
I feel like once you see it in the big screen, it feels weird how the series jumps back and forth realism and fantasy aspects and this is even more glaring in live actionAlso there wasn't any grandeur of troops against troops because first arc and budget but overall it's pretty decent except for Asian bad cgi hulk.
-
Ugh, should have known it would be about general type-casting again.
I mean it's cool, but just tone down with everyone acknowledging it as a trait attributed at character creation.
-
Ousen's formation
!
-
Also, yet again a break next week.
! Its talking time.
Besides that, I still have a hard time believing how suddenly the Qin are dominating out of the blue and not really sold by the genius tactic … to use no tactic at all.
And while Ousen should have lost long ago due to his inactivity, right now Riboku looks pretty terrible. The whole arc has that dilemma to hype up both Riboku and Ousen and, at least in my eyes, Hara is doing a very poor job with that [compare that to Renpa vs Kanki/Ousen for example, where both sides looked competent]
Despite all the complains, I still enjoyed the latest chapters -
! Just a funny thing I noticed in second page. Behold, the Ousen have a clone army.
-
I personally like it. The development etc… Its interesting and lets not forget this is shounen, so hold your horses on anything deeper
-
- seinen
-
"Seinen"
This would be in Shonen Jump back in the day.
-
Could be given that there are changes in demographics from time to time, but that doesn't change the fact that this series is published in a magazine with an intended audience that is older than the shonen demographic.
In the same way that "Kaguya wants to be confessed to" is published in the very same magazine as Kingdom without any of a lot of things it could otherwise get away with in a seinen magazine or how when "Attack on Titan" came out people thought it was published in a seinen magazine because of its gore. Or how JoJo went from shonen to seinen without much of any change in terms of Araki's writing style.
In that same way, Kingdom is written with the intent to appeal to an older audience regardless of what archetypes and tropes it uses. Saying otherwise also implies that shonen series are limited in how good their writing can be and that other seinen series can't have more simplistic writing.
-
@Purple:
Could be given that there are changes in demographics from time to time, but that doesn't change the fact that this series is published in a magazine with an intended audience that is older than the shonen demographic.
In the same way that "Kaguya wants to be confessed to" is published in the very same magazine as Kingdom without any of a lot of things it could otherwise get away with in a seinen magazine or how when "Attack on Titan" came out people thought it was published in a seinen magazine because of its gore. Or how JoJo went from shonen to seinen without much of any change in terms of Araki's writing style.
In that same way, Kingdom is written with the intent to appeal to an older audience regardless of what archetypes and tropes it uses. Saying otherwise also implies that shonen series are limited in how good their writing can be and that other seinen series can't have more simplistic writing.
This series was much more 'seinen' at start but started to drift towards typical shounen tropes and style during coalition arc in my observation.
-
Also, yet again a break next week.
! Its talking time.
Besides that, I still have a hard time believing how suddenly the Qin are dominating out of the blue and not really sold by the genius tactic … to use no tactic at all.
And while Ousen should have lost long ago due to his inactivity, right now Riboku looks pretty terrible. The whole arc has that dilemma to hype up both Riboku and Ousen and, at least in my eyes, Hara is doing a very poor job with that [compare that to Renpa vs Kanki/Ousen for example, where both sides looked competent]
Despite all the complains, I still enjoyed the latest chaptersIt´s connected to the two main major problems Kingdom has in my opinion
-
Lack of necessary build-up for adversaries and allies aside. Hara always brings new guys that apparently are on par or even better than the previous guys, to oneup over and over, but it lacks credibility since they come out of nowhere. There is no transparency in the major players and how they compare to each other.
This is one of the main things Oda does really well for example, just to draw a comparison. -
Since neither the tactics (unless it´s a very simple yet effective one like Ousen in the coalition war against the mountain folk) nor the martial might are really transparent, all Hara can rely on is third person commentary and reaction faces, but they quickly lose their impact since the expressions and surprise faces are always the same, and you never get a grasp of different levels of generals and their proficiency really.
With Kanki for example it´s way easier for Hara since what makes Kanki special is his unorthodox tactics and his cruelty, both on a physical and mental manner, so his tactics against Kisui for example really left an impression, or what he did in the coalition war.
-
-
This series was much more 'seinen' at start but started to drift towards typical shounen tropes and style during coalition arc in my observation.
You could make that argument that there's a lot of moments that rely on the pluck of the young and upcoming to win against insurmountable odds, but that's also kinda been the MO of the series since the start?
It's just hard to pin down exactly what fits into a seinen vs shonen archetype other than people associating big ol' brainless fights with shonen and more "adult" themes and combat with seinen, but I'd tend to find that line blurred a lot. The flaws with the series' writing are actually pretty well boiled down here by MiyamotoMusashi:
It´s connected to the two main major problems Kingdom has in my opinion
-
Lack of necessary build-up for adversaries and allies aside. Hara always brings new guys that apparently are on par or even better than the previous guys, to oneup over and over, but it lacks credibility since they come out of nowhere. There is no transparency in the major players and how they compare to each other.
This is one of the main things Oda does really well for example, just to draw a comparison. -
Since neither the tactics (unless it´s a very simple yet effective one like Ousen in the coalition war against the mountain folk) nor the martial might are really transparent, all Hara can rely on is third person commentary and reaction faces, but they quickly lose their impact since the expressions and surprise faces are always the same, and you never get a grasp of different levels of generals and their proficiency really.
With Kanki for example it´s way easier for Hara since what makes Kanki special is his unorthodox tactics and his cruelty, both on a physical and mental manner, so his tactics against Kisui for example really left an impression, or what he did in the coalition war.
P much. It gets progressively more difficult for us to believe that, when Qin is basically on a 10 year winning streak that they're the underdog in any fight, and Hara is and has never been very good at long term planning or pacing, introducing the Qin Six and the Zhao three as the major forces, and then suddenly the wei fire dragons. Hara's main strategy with antagonists basically gets summed up to introducing a never before seen general rather than laying out long term threats over time, which is out of the blue and completely unexpected given our understanding of the war dynamics in China.
Which is how we ended up here. Because the wars that actually unify China don't start for another seven years. We're stuck for years in real time on relatively small scale skirmishes like this one. Not that this battle isn't important, but how we got here highlights Hara's desire to set up a credible threat. If Qin is on a win streak, we'll just have zhao set up a complete loss condition unless they can secure this one city. Stakes are higher than ever, and new generals are introduced that were stronger than the last bozos. There's still some very important stuff that happens in the interim between this battle and the fall of the first state, but Hara likes to drag the whole affair out such that unless we move at a breakneck pace after this that I don't know if we'll ever see China united. Or if it'll be satisfying given that Hara continues to need to escalate and will have to at least six more times.
-
-
Man the Shounen Seinen distinction is so useless in actually evaluating the merits of a fictional work.
Of course there is a loose connection with known tropes between the two, but for the most part, it is a evaluation of graphic content rather than being applicable to themes. let alone quality of narration.
It almost has the same value in evaluating a work as using age rating for movies does.
Just to use an extreme, i can guarantee you a pg-rated Miyazaki movie has more "mature" themes and tropes than any r rated horror flick. -
New chapter is out
-
[hide]Well we are going to see the cycle repeat. This time Shin instead of Big Sexy Lips and little archer bro saving him.
So the two Zhao generals on the right wing kinda represent Ou Hon and Shin. This showdown with Ou Hon is like if he were fighting Shin.
Oh Riboku, Shin is going to kill the buffoon.[/hide]
-
If the right wing is going to save the day, then what's the purpose of the centre holding their strength?!
Either Ousen and co. are weak as hell or selfish to the bones, most likely both…......! Or simply very poor writing.:ninja:
-
When you remember that Ousen was banking on Riboku joining him, it gives context as to why Ousen is being selfish. Why waste fighting a possible ally when you can sacrifice the young potentials of a future enemy?
-
If the right wing is going to save the day, then what's the purpose of the centre holding their strength?!
Either Ousen and co. are weak as hell or selfish to the bones, most likely both…......! Or simply very poor writing.:ninja:
Right wing can't do shit if center isn't busy fighting with another center.
Not saying it's a writing masterpiece either.
-
2 chapters we are moving along
-
Those horses, man….
-
Love how Ouhon used the impact of Gyou'un's glaive to propel his spear forward. At the same time it looks too easy and there's no way he should have been able to do it with just one hand! But at least that plot foreshadowing plotline is over.
Wonder what Bananji does now.
-
It will be one of those things, isn't it?
-
Hope Shi Ryou kills Kaine, but I highly doubt it. Kaine and Fu Tei are annoying
-
Hope Shi Ryou kills Kaine, but I highly doubt it. Kaine and Fu Tei are annoying
I hope she survives this let alone kill those2.
-
Hope Shi Ryou kills Kaine, but I highly doubt it. Kaine and Fu Tei are annoying
Nah, we have to see and enjoy Kaine´s reaction to the future events
-
I hope she survives this let alone kill those2.
This is more possible. Hara has used Ou Sen's generals and their adjutants to display Zhao's might and further push the younger guys of Qin.
Nah, we have to see and enjoy Kaine´s reaction to the future events
Yup
-
Spoiler talk for 612.
! And people thought I was overestamiting the number of generals Shin would kill all them posts ago.
! Little archer brother is going to prevent Riboku from trying to kill Shin like they did with Ouki, that will be the moment he finally gets his first kill.
! Houken is a walking joke jajaja. -
@K.:
Stuff
New chapter somewhere, or you're caught up with 611 ?
-
New chapter somewhere, or you're caught up with 611 ?
New spoiler at mangamint for 612. I edited my first post to clarify.
-
Do you mean 612? 611 has been out for a week now.
-
Yes, 612, edited my posts again, not all there today. Thanks.
-
! I'm not going to read spoilers myself, but for the fun of speculation, based on Kira's post I guess Ambush Guy is the one Shin slays this chapter ? Bananji looks like a mouthful in his current state
Also, more Houken nonsense ? Bleerh. -
! When the war was starting. I had said that Shin would probably kill between 2-3 generals. He has already killed two.
! Spoiler within spoiler.
! >! I am expecting Houken to be the last one. -
! Oh, right, he's so much a random nuisance that I had even forgotten he was a general at all
Well I certainly hope Shin - or anyone else, I'm not difficult provided we're rid of him - can cleave his ugly mug in two once for all
Ouhon could play a part in there too, if there is to have been any meaning in killing off lieutenant gramps -
I thought it was an interesting chapter. Especially as Houken has largely ignored Shin until now.
-
I apologize for taking so long to answer.
What I want to see? Some actual tactics that offsets their own disadvantages.
Tactics were used. A simple one, but it was there. Let's revise what happened. The original plan was for it to be a push out through brute strength. Using Shin and Kyou Kai as the main forces. However, given the Shin was badly injured, they could not do that anymore.
[hide][/hide]
Kyou Kai even states that if they were to push through brute strength at this point, they would be wiped out.
[hide][/hide]
You have said it yourself But here there are none: Just blindly attack, ignore everything that the enemy is doing and hope to just break through by blind force; oh we've got encircled, how could that happen, eitherway, just trust that blindly attacking will save us.
That was the plan, but Kyou Kai changed the objective from escaping the encirclement, to wiping out the encirclement. They would not attack blindly, Kyou Kai would mark the targets to strike with her insane movement skills, hoping around while Shin and the rest would strike at those points. The repeat this simple tactic, focusing on point of interest to kill them all.
[hide][/hide]
Now, this simple tactic, is only possible because the HSU specializes on brute strength. They have: Shin and his main troops, Kyou Kai and her main troops Duke Hyou troops and the Naki Clan. These are the cream of the crop in the HSU. If Buckteeth would have been there and he had survived then yeah, but these soldiers are all about the mosh pit fight.
Okay, if its that easy, if a weakened, starving, outnumbered HSU with very diminished allied support can simply overwhelm their adversaries, why have they not done that from the beginning?
Because these were the best troops they had in a mosh pit type of fight.
I mean, I find that at least that had a tactic being used. Unlike Riboku and Ou Sen whom are supposed to specialize in strategy and be god-tier generals. One taught it's army to: "fight using instincts instead of tactics" and the other just walked forward.