Why would Shiryu fight Mihawk though ? Also, we already have BB and Van Augur who are gonna kill Shanks and Yassop. 3 vendetta scenario at once would be too much
Why would Zoro have any vendetta against a person that beats Mihawk?
He'd just have to shift focus to a new world's greatest.
And there is no world in which Shiryuu beats Mihawk in a 1 on 1 fight, unless the BB pirates and him fight dirty.
Only person in BB's crew capable of beating him is Blackbeard himself…
Buggy the Star Clown
That's not a definition. That's a person.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Why would Shiryu fight Mihawk though ? Also, we already have BB and Van Augur who are gonna kill Shanks and Yassop. 3 vendetta scenario at once would be too much
Something something helping Shanks
Just wait until if happens. My boy vice admiral Shu is making his comeback.
!
Why would Zoro have any vendetta against a person that beats Mihawk?
He'd just have to shift focus to a new world's greatest.
Didn't you just answer your own question there
@uniaka:
Just wait until if happens. My boy vice admiral Shu is making his comeback.
!
As funny as this is, I do wonder if Shu could apply his DF-powers on a black blade. They are coated in (CoA-)haki permanently, if I didn't misunderstand that Topic completely.
@Daz:
IPeople say that "Odas worldbuilding is so great!", but its deployment here is just so blunt and artless. He used to be better at inserting it more organically, or at least spicing it up. If you go back to chapters 233-234, where Whitebeard, Sengoku, Kuma, Doflamingo, the elder stars and Blackbeard proper get introduced theres a ton of small character moments and cool, memorable visuals. The focus shifts often, but everything feels like complete little scenes that feed into each other rather than bare-bones reaction panels; in other words you learn a lot of new stuff but its conveyed in a way that feels entertaining in the moment, instead of just exposition-dumping with the promise of entertainment later.
I kinda agree. Like you said those last 2 chapters had a very artificial flavor. In previous chapter, the way he had to hide the things he didn't want to tell made the reading very complex and in this one he barely hides the fact that those Rocks pirates are a retcon
Garp and Roger fighting together is interesting though and I wonder if the way the island "disappear" is similar to Imu being able to make a person disappear from history or the disappearance of the void century.
As funny as this is, I do wonder if Shu could apply his DF-powers on a black blade. They are coated in (CoA-)haki permanently, if I didn't misunderstand that Topic completely.
Black blade still raises questions, it's far from explained. Like maybe zoro's enma gives some answer, like it absorbs haki of the users, so maybe absorbing the haki of all the users it ever had turns it black or is it enough for someone like zoro to use it all the time until, idk, eos to turns it black by having enma abosorb a bit haki every time zoro uses it. And why top guys out there like shanks or rayleigh, roger don't have black blades. Does it need to be a special sword like the cursed blades, it doesn't work on just any blade.
Then again, oda didn't bother to give explanation for swordman in one piece. Does anyone with a sword count, or it's only people that only use actual swordmanship, and not getting help from some fruit power like hitting you in the head with some meteor, while also using sword. Does that count as cheating and goes against swordman code?
Mihawk vs Zoro has been set up since the beginning of the manga. It will happen. There is no swordsman out there that exists currently that is on his level, especially not Shiryuu.
We have no idea how strong Shiryu has become since Impel Down, but even at that time he was supposed to be as strong as strong as Magellan, who was stronger than Luffy at the time and was also able to incapacitate Blackbeard.
The Strawhats don't have to be the only crew that keeps increasing their strength.
If Blackbeard is to become the final villain, then it makes sense that the master swordsman in his crew would be at least as powerful as Mihawk.
NOT EVEN CLOSE, SIR!
Generally speaking devil fruits get to be near untouchable in their one area of use. Buggy for instance can't be cut no matter what, so i would presume that rust guys ability to inflict rust on steel is in the same way not negatable. But you could probably make his abilities useless by other means all the same.
Generally speaking devil fruits get to be near untouchable in their one area of use. Buggy for instance can't be cut no matter what, so i would presume that rust guys ability to inflict rust on steel is in the same way not negatable. But you could probably make his abilities useless by other means all the same.
Oh, been a while since we brought up Buggy's cut invulnerability.
Still pretty sure he can be haki cut. Unless there's some new evidence Mihawk was using Haki while pancake-stacking him.
What about the seastone-covered marine vessel Law played Lego with on PH?
Fundamental questions…
Oh, been a while since we brought up Buggy's cut invulnerability.
Still pretty sure he can be haki cut. Unless there's some new evidence Mihawk was using Haki while pancake-stacking him.
Well another nail in the coffin would be that he wields his black blade. Which is imbued with it. Not that this will stop the oh Mihawk just didn't feel like it arguing. We'll probably have to go to the last chapter without the Buggster being cut, then ya'll can feel safe to lay down the i guess can't be cut means can't be cut.
Well another nail in the coffin would be that he wields his black blade. Which is imbued with it. Not that this will stop the oh Mihawk just didn't feel like it arguing. We'll probably have to go to the last chapter without the Buggster being cut, then ya'll can feel safe to lay down the i guess can't be cut means can't be cut.
But is the blade constantly on Haki mode or does the fact it's black just means it became a better, sharper, more durable blade?
Let me know when we get some news on how in hell that crap actually works.
Thinking about it now, the ramifications of this procedure are crazy. What's to stop people from imbuing other kind of objects with other kinds of Haki?
What about the seastone-covered marine vessel Law played Lego with on PH?
Fundamental questions…
What about it? Hancock managed to shatter Smoker's jutte once with her legs.
What about it? Hancock managed to shatter Smoker's jutte once with her legs.
Only the tip is supposed to be seastone.
As for marine ship, it shouldn't matter seastone is unbreakable if it's inside Law's Room. Plus it's just a thin layer. Plus maybe not each and every marine ship has it.
Rayleigh is yonkou level. He fucked up kizaru with a rusty sword after a 50 year hiatus
Roger is naturally above Yonkou level
@Mr.:
I can only assume SSG stands for Super Saiyan Goku :ninja: .
I assume it is Special Science G(the being G1,…G5...etc for the special science squad, unit or whatever it was called in this chapter).
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@xan:
I am curious to know why Xebec was intent on attacking the tenryubuittos. And additionally, why Roger felt it as a need to protect them. Roger would have known about them and there would be no need for him to protect them at all unless they possessed something that Xebec was keen on getting which would cause a much worse chaos than the tenryubuittos currently do? There should be something about this island that attracted Rocks and hence the cover up
Probably related to a slave they wanted to save, an they ended up saving Tenryuubitos(thier owner ~~) direcly or indrectly(i.e other marines took them to saftly while Garp and Roger handles the Rocks), unless that Tenryuubito was IM or somthing I don't think Garp or Roger will save them wilingly.
I think it is very likely that there was a damsel in distress situation(Garp's wife, Dragon's wife's mom, Rouge's mom, Luffy's mom…etc).~~
Only the tip is supposed to be seastone.
As for marine ship, it shouldn't matter seastone is unbreakable if it's inside Law's Room. Plus it's just a thin layer. Plus maybe not each and every marine ship has it.
I also interprete it like the stuff the vessels are coated with some Kind of "alloy", where the seastone Acts as a Kind of "impurity" and only makes a small part of the ships' huge cover.
And yeah, only the tip of Smoker's jutte has seastone in/on it.
But is the blade constantly on Haki mode or does the fact it's black just means it became a better, sharper, more durable blade?
Let me know when we get some news on how in hell that crap actually works.
Thinking about it now, the ramifications of this procedure are crazy. What's to stop people from imbuing other kind of objects with other kinds of Haki?
I think sword( and weapons of similar types) is different in the sense that it is always by the side of it's wielder. So metaphorically it 'grows' along with it's master. Perhaps that's why when it becomes 'black blade', it get haki of it's 'own'. I think any object can be imbued with wielder's haki, but they won't be same as 'black blade' because once the user deactivate his haki, it goes back to the original state.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it–always.”
We have no idea how strong Shiryu has become since Impel Down, but even at that time he was supposed to be as strong as strong as Magellan, who was stronger than Luffy at the time and was also able to incapacitate Blackbeard.
The Strawhats don't have to be the only crew that keeps increasing their strength.If Blackbeard is to become the final villain, then it makes sense that the master swordsman in his crew would be at least as powerful as Mihawk.
Magellan's surprise attacked Blackbeard and won because of it. It was a smart tactic by him.
It doesn't matter how strong Shiryuu has become, he's not going to be the world's greatest swordsman, he will never surpass Mihawk. He's already 44 years old, he should be at the peak of his skills as swordsman.
And no, Shiryuu does not need to be as strong as Mihawk. He needs to be super powerful, so he's a worthwhile stepping stone for Zoro for his fight, and no doubt he's an elite swordsman with a hax DF ability which will cause Zoro all kinds of problems when they do face off
… not strong enough to single handedly destroy entire islands like Emperors(who are basically the embodiment of natural disasters, at least Teach, Kaidou and Big Mom are)
I'm pretty sure(after seeing his big slash at the war) that he can waste(split) islands in a few slashes if not in one. Heck even Law is around that level (the Punkhazard factory/mountains slash).
I think sword( and weapons of similar types) is different in the sense that it is always by the side of it's wielder. So metaphorically it 'grows' along with it's master. Perhaps that's why when it becomes 'black blade', it get haki of it's 'own'. I think any object can be imbued with wielder's haki, but they won't be same as 'black blade' because once the user deactivate his haki, it goes back to the original state.
So you don't think there's a chance that something like, say, a straw hat, could retain stuff from previous generations? :ninja:
Mihawk vs Zoro has been set up since the beginning of the manga. It will happen. There is no swordsman out there that exists currently that is on his level, especially not Shiryuu.
I'm not really sure when some began to take it as a given that this isn't happening. I mean it's one thing to be open to the possibility, but some seem extremely sure about it. Same thing happened with Shiyru getting the Diamond DF, but as we know, that hilariously did not come to pass.
I'm not really sure when some began to take it as a given that this isn't happening. I mean it's one thing to be open to the possibility, but some seem extremely sure about it. Same thing happened with Shiyru getting the Diamond DF, but as we know, that hilariously did not come to pass.
I think the point of no return was when Zoro became his student.
So you don't think there's a chance that something like, say, a straw hat, could retain stuff from previous generations? :ninja:
Err..by my logic, no. I don't think Luffy puts haki in his brain or his hat works with the brain in tandem.:ninja:
It's Oda story and he can choose whichever direction he wants regarding retconned stuffs, but making all types of things retaining haki or memory of it will make more plot-holes in the story.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it–always.”
Mihawk is for zoro what shanks is for luffy. Maybe they will have some friendly match when they get to shanks, same for zoro and mihawk. Even clashing once and split the sky in half would show that luffy/zoro managed to equal shanks and mihawk, like how bm vs kaidou, wb vs shanks do it.
@Razh:
Oh, been a while since we brought up Buggy's cut invulnerability.
Still pretty sure he can be haki cut. Unless there's some new evidence Mihawk was using Haki while pancake-stacking him.
Haki allows you to touch the real body but buggy's body doesn't seem to be there anymore? And buggy's fruit would be rather crap since any haki user be able to hurt him. At least with logias even with haki weakness they still got all their other powers, but buggy's whole fruit thing is not able to get cut. It's not even like logias, since you can still punch him or something, it's just cuts.
When he went from Mihawk to Mentorhawk he pretty much lost all allure as a serious opponent.
We have no idea how strong Shiryu has become since Impel Down, but even at that time he was supposed to be as strong as strong as Magellan, who was stronger than Luffy at the time and was also able to incapacitate Blackbeard.
The Strawhats don't have to be the only crew that keeps increasing their strength.If Blackbeard is to become the final villain, then it makes sense that the master swordsman in his crew would be at least as powerful as Mihawk.
We have no idea how strong Shiryu has become since Impel Down, but even at that time he was supposed to be as strong as strong as Magellan, who was stronger than Luffy at the time and was also able to incapacitate Blackbeard.
The Strawhats don't have to be the only crew that keeps increasing their strength.If Blackbeard is to become the final villain, then it makes sense that the master swordsman in his crew would be at least as powerful as Mihawk.
"If" Blackbeard is the final villain. I have never thought that he would be the final villain. I have always thought it would be the World Gov. That's the endgame. I now think it will be Im, but was predicting a 'world king' four years ago after Akainu's clash with the Five Elders. Im had cut up pictures of Luffy and Blackbeard lying together on the floor of the chamber.
I think Blackbeard is Luffy's chief rival to inherit Roger's will and find One Piece. I fully expect Luffy vs. Blackbeard to be the last battle before One Piece. Maybe Pirate Island arc. Morgans advanced the idea that 'one of the worst generation will soon take the title of Pirate King'. Most of the worst gen have entered the story to play a major part. Only Bonney and Urogue left, and I can imagine a scenario where each of them has a part in upcoming arcs. I imagine Luffy, Blackbeard, and the rest will clash - whether that is on Pirate Island, God Valley, the last island the logs point toward (I call it Log's End)… impossible to say. Maybe the last log pose island is Pirate Island (could also be Shanks' island). It would make sense. Blackbeard has taken that island as his headquarters. The Davy Back Fight was invented there. Rocks was formed there. It seems power accumulates at this particular island. It would make sense for Pirate Island to be the end of the Log's path where Luffy and Blackbeard fight over the right to inherit Roger's will and move on to collect One Piece.
To that end, I really don't think Zoro's final opponent will be Shiryu. I lean toward Mihawk or Sword Elder. I'm not even convinced Zoro will fight Shiryu... it could be Sanji. I'm not saying will be. I don't have strong thoughts one way or the other at this point. A battle between the Straw Hat and Blackbeard Pirates is really far off.
I actually kind of believe Luffy and Blackbeard will end up on the same side of the final conflict against Im.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it–always.”
@uniaka:
Black blade still raises questions, it's far from explained. Like maybe zoro's enma gives some answer, like it absorbs haki of the users, so maybe absorbing the haki of all the users it ever had turns it black or is it enough for someone like zoro to use it all the time until, idk, eos to turns it black by having enma abosorb a bit haki every time zoro uses it. And why top guys out there like shanks or rayleigh, roger don't have black blades. Does it need to be a special sword like the cursed blades, it doesn't work on just any blade.
Then again, oda didn't bother to give explanation for swordman in one piece. Does anyone with a sword count, or it's only people that only use actual swordmanship, and not getting help from some fruit power like hitting you in the head with some meteor, while also using sword. Does that count as cheating and goes against swordman code?
The only swordsman I can remember from the top of my head that mentioned sword morals is T-Bone, who "despised crooked swordplay" and only ever cut in straight lines.
It's kind of a bummer that in a world full of swordsmen, the one guy who counters almost all of them (Shuu) didn't get more screentime, even thought he eliminated one of Zoro's swords. Would've been interesting to see how a swordsman defeats that.
Blackbeard is the main villain for Luffy,for so many reasons. The government,with Akainu and Im-Sama in it,is the main villain for the Revolutionary Army.
Blackbeard is the main villain for Luffy,for so many reasons. The government,with Akainu and Im-Sama in it,is the main villain for the Revolutionary Army.
What if after reaching Raftel the strawhats realize the world government is a neccessary evil and the final battle will be the Revolutionary vs the Strawhats :ninja:
It's kind of a bummer that in a world full of swordsmen, the one guy who counters almost all of them (Shuu) didn't get more screentime, even thought he eliminated one of Zoro's swords. Would've been interesting to see how a swordsman defeats that.
It is kind of the same thing as with Buggy. Just don't let your sword touch him and you'll be fine. You've got tons of other possibilities even when you can't slice and dice, which Mihawk demonstrated on the Buggster.
Well, Mihawk, right since his introduction, was shown as a 'honourable' swordsman, a good guy type. And in OP, two good guys never fight seriously.
Except when Mihawk fought Zoro seriously right after his introduction. Or Dorry and Broggy. I'm sure there's more.
For a different take, I think Zoro vs Mihawk will happen, but it won't be Zoro's final battle. Mihawk isn't even a warlord anymore. There's no way to fit that in any endgame scenario.
Wait, what ?
https://imgur.com/T8wPAhNHere it is, from the author comments of WSJ issue #18 of 2009.
Yeah thats it!
| 537 | March 30, 2009 | The CD of "Binks' Sake" has been released. It's a very special song that will come up again in the main story. Please just wait a few years. |
I copy and pasted the box as well, the full text isn't coming out.
The CD of "Binks' Sake" has been released. It's a very special song that will come up again in the main story. Please just wait a few years.
Yeah I just interpreted that to mean that it would be important to the story later.
I'm not really sure when some began to take it as a given that this isn't happening.
Maybe because there isn't a single believable scenario where Mihawk would fight Zoro now?
People already listed all the reasons why Mihawk vs. Zoro is A LOT less likely at this point, while the other side always reverts to "but, but it was promised 12 years ago ;__;".
This is simply not convincing. If you want to persuade people then at least come up with a theory how that fight would be realised (in a somewhat organic manner, if this isn't too much to ask).
You need, at least:
! 1. A trigger (when would it happen?)
2. Motivation (why would it happen?)
3. A location (which place would be worthy for that final clash?)
! Now, back in 2007 this was the general headcanon:
! 1. The Straw Hat pirates challenge the world government directly, EOS.
2. Mihawk is a Shichibukai, that's all the motivation he needs to fight the Straw Hats and thus Zoro. Remember, this is 2007. He's a loner, he just cares about fighting, he kills 4900 men out of boredom.
3. Marineford or the Holy land, an epic battlefield fitting for that final confrontation. The top commander and swordsman of the Yonkou Monkey D. Luffy, vs. the strongest swordsman in the world, Mihawk.
Not judging how cool or satisfying this would be, just that the above was a believable scenario. A scenario that is now officially dead, as Mihawk is not a Shichibukai anymore and not affiliated with the WG in any other way.
So, with the most probable scenario being dead, what else do people have in store to make that final fight happen? I actually asked this exact question a few years ago and literally got nothing. And that was even before Oda created more facts with the recent chapter! Some were so desperate (and uncreative…) to simply note that Mihawk would seek out the Straw Hats on his own because he wants to fight Zoro.
Location? The Sunny. Why? Don't know, it was promised so it will happen!
Now, if I would try my hand at this, as of chapter 957 (my only goal is Mihawk vs. Zoro, no matter the cost):
1. Blackbeard is beaten by the Straw Hats at Raftel Laugh Tale. They find out about the lost history and decide to bring down the WG.
2. Shanks has an interest to keep the status quo, maybe because he was semi-evil or lawful evil all along. Surprise! He decides to stop the Straw Hats before they try something funny, like he does all the time anyway (vs. Whitebeard, vs. Kaido, vs. Gorosei). Oh yeah, and Mihawk is now an allied captain / top commander because he had nowhere else to..hide go.
This would make Shanks the last Yonkou to be fought, just like Luffy intended anyway.
3. Trying really hard here. I don't know. Because everything is already so very, very sophisticated… let's say... GOD VALLEY! Yes!
So in order to have that Mihawk vs. Zoro duel we turned the Red Hair pirates into antagonists, Usopp's father included, and turned Mihawk into Shank's little bitch underling, who not only fights Zoro because of swordsman-honor, but because he also agrees to Shank's agenda at least to some degree.
This is really awful, awful, awful writing right here. But maybe someone can come up with a different scenario? I would love to hear it. I would love to be convinced, really.
And @Blissed, your post is just the anchor, I know you probably just wondered why people take it for granted that Mihawk vs. Zoro is dead. But it's also not comparable to insignificant pet theories like "which fruit will be consumed by Shiryu".
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah thats it!
Yeah I just interpreted that to mean that it would be important to the story later.
Woah, that's interesting. That was 10 years ago, Bink's Sake wasn't important so far… right? At least I don't remember anything relevant.
-Okay so Blackbeard, the WG and all actual enemies are dealt with, lets circle back a bit so i can have a friendly spar with my teacher.
How does "Joy Boy" Binks, discoverer of Laugh Tale, sound?
1. Blackbeard is beaten by the Straw Hats at
RaftelLaugh Tale. They find out about the lost history and decide to bring down the WG.
2. Shanks has an interest to keep the status quo, maybe because he was semi-evil or lawful evil all along. Surprise! He decides to stop the Straw Hats before they try something funny, like he does all the time anyway (vs. Whitebeard, vs. Kaido, vs. Gorosei). Oh yeah, and Mihawk is now an allied captain / top commander because he had nowhere else to..hidego.
This would make Shanks the last Yonkou to be fought, just like Luffy intended anyway.
3. Trying really hard here. I don't know. Because everything is already so very, very sophisticated… let's say... GOD VALLEY! Yes!
Actually only the trigger is a problem here. Location is irrelevant, motivation for both is known: it's to settle who is the strongest. Mihawk needs to be at a certain time at a certain place - that's all. I know, this is not a specific scenario but just a premise to make it work. I just don't think it has to be sophisticated in any way. Like i said, both don't really need a further motivation - they just need the right setting (not fighting together against some greater foe). In my vague opinion it will happen before they find One Piece. As for awful writing - come on, it's still Oda, who for example used the lost-memory-trope to justify Sabos absence at Marineford. If something needs to happen plot wise, he will find a way to let it happen. It's not that i would mind if there wouldn't be a serious fight between Zoro and Mihawk… it's just something most One Piece fans wouldn't understand or honor.
I used to think they would fight at Marine Ford since Mihawk don't mind getting a good fight out of his job and Zoro would be a good fight. Since there isn't that anymore I have a hard time seeing them fight seriously in the manga. I could see it be an epilogue after Zoro accomplishes something Mihawk never could or something only Mihawk could like cutting seastone. I have doubt Shiryuu will take the title but Oda can just do anything. I didn't expect to find Roger real rival and the real kinfg of the world so long into the game.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Spending so much time talking Big Mom it was interesting to see how much her and Whitebeard has in comman. The power, the age, the arrogance, the importance of family.
In another shonen they would be brother and Sister. Of course Big Mom would be the older sister. When our heroes meet her they would be a slight comment or action that makes them realize a possible link. Big mom would confirm. they would gasped loudly. Then Big mom would talk about ever since they were little her brother was a wimp and it seems he hasn't changed. Whitebeard underling/ourheroes would comment how crazy it is that someone would call him a wimp and how they have never saw someone do that. Whitebeard would then comment how she's always that way before loudly yelling about wathever it is they need. And with a dismissive cough Big Mom would ask them to follow her into the super secret thing that outside shouldn't seee/know about.
Of course I would love the shit out of it.
Magellan's surprise attacked Blackbeard and won because of it. It was a smart tactic by him.
It doesn't matter how strong Shiryuu has become, he's not going to be the world's greatest swordsman, he will never surpass Mihawk. He's already 44 years old, he should be at the peak of his skills as swordsman.
And no, Shiryuu does not need to be as strong as Mihawk. He needs to be super powerful, so he's a worthwhile stepping stone for Zoro for his fight, and no doubt he's an elite swordsman with a hax DF ability which will cause Zoro all kinds of problems when they do face off
So, what do you expect exactly? Will Zoro defeat Mihawk first, and then go to fight a lesser opponent like Shiryu; or will the final confrontation with Blackbeard happen first, so that the Zoro vs. Mihawk fight will be when Luffy is already PK and the entire series should be over already?
TBH I understand people may be underwhelmed if Zoro doesn't get to challenge Mihawk, but there are reasons to believe it isn't going to happen.
Personally, I've been convinced Mihawk was going to fall ever since the first appearance of Shiryu.
Mihawk falling to Shlliew is not mutually exclusive with Zoro vs Mihawk. Just like Blackbeard killing Shanks doesn't mean Luffy can't fight him first.
Zoro and Mihawk both have personallities to set aside their 'friendship' and have an actual battle to the death. I really think this will be one of the final battles of the series and there will be no holding back or friendship involved. They will both try 100% to kill the other and have the battle they both allways dreamt of. And Mihawk will die knowing his title is in good hands.
