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Chapter 904: The Entrance of The Revolutionary Army Commanders
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This post is deleted!
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Quite late to the thread and quite many pages already, so I'm grateful if someone could fill me in:
I noticed in the spoiler thread that it apparently did not show any preview (or something else…) about One Piece for next week, yet the chapter made no mention of a break. Has this been cleared up? Has either been confirmed; no chapter or will there be one?
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One Piece is most likely on break next week
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Girl in skirt is Moda (Milk girl) from Ace's BB hunting days
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Bello is a very sexy woman
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Major discussion about how Oda doesn't have women fight
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A few petty fights and name calling (mainly over how weak/strong the new characters are)
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Fans are split in whether they like the RA designs
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One minor speculation that Karasu is a Kaido spy
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I think Garp will join the revolutionaries
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So like
Team Revos or Team WG
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Naw IMO garp is too old for that. Besides we still need good marines, all the people we like cant leave and have the marines turn into an "evil organization of assholes"
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@Long:
Naw IMO garp is too old for that. Besides we still need good marines, all the people we like cant leave and have the marines turn into an "evil organization of assholes"
We've seen the good marines. The interesting question is even if you work for the greater good, if your actions support a system that upholds slavery and destruction of nations that have counter ideas…are you still good? Not arguing or against, it's an intersting question Oda likes to play. Who wins are the people who write what's good/evil or justice/sin.
My hero academia and Black clover both had unfinished panels.
I've read shonen jump for a while now, but while it's not a crazy amount, I've noticed in recent years more unfinished panels from mangaka than 5-10 years ago. Wonder if it's b/c they're rushing the too much.
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I just realized that when we saw Sengoku back in Dressrosa, he didn't have his pet goat with him. I hope we get to see it again…could it be on a boat? Or maybe a castle moat? Did it leave Sengoku a note? Please tell me this isn't all she wrote. In meetings, does it have a vote? From it, will we ever get a quote? It's cold aside, did Sengoku give it a warm coat? It's at least more relevant than Charlotte Compote.
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Just wanna ask will there be a chapter next week?
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We don’t know
Thanks :)
Btw if we have seen the royalties and the RA maybe next week we see the marines and what they are up to maybe we could have a look at ryokugyu?
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Just wanna ask will there be a chapter next week?
The preview for WSJ issue 25 came out, and no we are not getting a One Piece chapter next week.
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I'm gonna wait til we have some more info on him before I'd categorise Karasu as disabled, but I can see it working.
As for Lindbergh, I mostly agree. If the character is just based on the science/activist titles on the man's wikipedia and it doesn't run deeper than that I'll be okay with it, but I will be extremely impressed if he is a traitor to the cause. I guess it's hard to say for certain how much of the actual history there is going to be common or easily researchable knowledge in Japan. And harder still to say how much of the current western discourse about nazi sympathy, trump, and left and right wing stances taken to the extreme would have reached Oda's ears to either think about or avoid to keep the comic apolitical.
Similarly, it's hard to imagine a western author being able to so confidently write an anti-monarchist, anti-authoritarian army of freedom fighters to be as overtly queer as the RA can be. If this series were any more mainstream here I'd be terrified to see kind of 'lefty cuck propoganda' accusations the darker side of the internet'd be cooking up for it. I don't think Oda was out to make any kind of a statement with that (or would have stopped to think if it might be one in any part of the world), he probably just likes the aesthetics of Japan's queer/drag community and wanted to draw characters in that style. We can't say for sure without knowing how far if at all that very western area of discourse has penetrated into the east - and even after that we'll never know for sure unless the man himself talks about it - but it's interesting to see the comic having that kind of applicability to our context, intended or otherwise.
The more I think about it, the more I think Lindbergh will be a villain if they turn out to not be a Mink. White supremacy as a theme doesn’t work if Lindbergh is a mink IMO. If he’s a Zoan user, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lindbergh does end up being a baddie. The W7 arc takes place at the height of the Oraq’s War unpopularity, and the WG flag is based off the NATO flag.
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15-20 million bountyheads we've seen before crawl out after being punched clear thru rocks or having buildings drop on them. 1 or 50 blows with a stick isn't the thing. It's the fact that someone with that kind of bounty, the equal of people who were exponentially tougher than for instance captain Kuro going down from being whacked with a stick. And using Kuro as an example he is the classic glass cannon, and even he wouldn't go down from Usopp whacking him with a stick. Those kids wailed on his head with three frying pans and he got up with out a scratch. I get that you could just handwave it with oh he didn't have enough time to showcase the whole chain of events. But it's still either a frighteningly powerful fruit that can empower a normal person beyond all reason or one of the very weakest defenses we've ever seen on a person who held a bounty. A milk maid with a stick beat him down in a minute, even if it was 200 whacks it's still a milk maid with a stick.
Maybe it is equivalent to 5 Mil in paradise? Newworld bounties could be higher? or just by the connection to Blackbeared he got a higher bounty.
Well they did sink a marine ship so there's that. So probably the buff df amplifies the power exponentially.
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@Medical:
I just realized that when we saw Sengoku back in Dressrosa, he didn't have his pet goat with him. I hope we get to see it again…could it be on a boat? Or maybe a castle moat? Did it leave Sengoku a note? Please tell me this isn't all she wrote.
The little rascal is here.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/801/page/7 -
For all atention it got on previous volumes (the goat even appeared in a cover!) It is strange to see it so quickly. And what's with the marines and strange pets? Sengoku had a gorila also in Dressrosa, and Aokiji had the giant penguin
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Huh, I didn't notice it in that chapter before
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The gorilla was one of the animals turned into toys that was just passing by. Not an actual pet.
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The preview for WSJ issue 25 came out, and no we are not getting a One Piece chapter next week.
For the best, don't want Oda to suffer. As much as I would like a chapter, I don't want OP to become HxH if Oda burns out. Wish Shonen Jump gave the rest of their mangaka's a little more R&R.
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Maybe the good marines and Dragon will ally against the bad marines and the celestial dragons. But I can't see Aokiji joining the Revo
I mean, currently at least. -
I have a question (dunno if already asked by someone else): is Belo Betty's fruit the 1st one that affects others, as in, not the user but those around her?
Unless i'm forgetting some known DF, this is a 1st, no?
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@HTC:
I have a question (dunno if already asked by someone else): is Belo Betty's fruit the 1st one that affects others, as in, not the user but those around her?
Unless i'm forgetting some known DF, this is a 1st, no?
Tsuru's maybe? Not really sure. Wondering if Betty can use it on herself for self-motivation though. If it does then that fruit would be a miracle for a college student cramming for finals.
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@HTC:
I have a question (dunno if already asked by someone else): is Belo Betty's fruit the 1st one that affects others, as in, not the user but those around her?
Unless i'm forgetting some known DF, this is a 1st, no?
There is Mansherry.
And Law to a certain extent.
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The little rascal is here.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece/en/0/801/page/7Good gravy that's hidden. One Piece has so many easter eggs!
For the best, don't want Oda to suffer. As much as I would like a chapter, I don't want OP to become HxH if Oda burns out. Wish Shonen Jump gave the rest of their mangaka's a little more R&R.
One Piece is way too much of a cultural icon for the editors/Jump to let that happen. The series needs to finish, but also Oda has to take breaks for his health because overwork is a very common stressor in Japan. So as excruciating as the breaks can be weekly, we need 'em. But yeah mangaka in general need more health consideration. The Japanese spirit of "give it absolutely everything full-force!!" is definitely there in the work-force.
I want to respond to my other quotes but to be honest I don't want to derail the chapter thread when that's a pretty small part of this particular chapter. I may PM or do it close to next chapter release. I hope there's not a break, hearing so much conflicting information.
There is Mansherry.
And Law to a certain extent.
Year of Law's Death: 2021
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@HTC:
I have a question (dunno if already asked by someone else): is Belo Betty's fruit the 1st one that affects others, as in, not the user but those around her?
Unless i'm forgetting some known DF, this is a 1st, no?
There's Bonney's fruit too.
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There's Bonney's fruit too.
Bonney's work on her body too.
And theoretically, so do Law and Mansherry's. They should be able to heal themselves.
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Foxy, Hancock… there's a lot actually.
EDIT: Jora! Streusen.
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@.access:
Foxy, Hancock… there's a lot actually.
EDIT: Jora! Streusen.
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Would never remember that. But now I remembered the Noro Noro beams could be reflected back at Foxy.
Anyways, will take the chance to say just like the Hollow Hollow fruit had a lot more to it than simply making people "hollow", I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the Cheer Cheer Fruit as well.
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Arguably Sugar's fruit too. Her toy/memory thing affects others, but she has that passive non-aging trait. Depends on whether that counts.
Imagine awakened hobby hobby. She's ridiculous lol.
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Arguably Sugar's fruit too. Her toy/memory thing affects others, but she has that passive non-aging trait. Depends on whether that counts.
Imagine awakened hobby hobby. She's ridiculous lol.
Awakened would be series-ending. Imagine her with Absalom turning her invisible and sneaking into a Yonkou or WG territory. Sugar just sneaks in and boops the Gorosei and they all turn into toys with the highest authority in the world.
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So we ended the arc without ever finding out what was going on with Brook. He seemed to be too in-the-know this arc, as if he had a past with the Big Mom pirates, or at least with the area. Any theories out there? Please quote if responding.
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So we ended the arc without ever finding out what was going on with Brook. He seemed to be too in-the-know this arc, as if he had a past with the Big Mom pirates, or at least with the area. Any theories out there? Please quote if responding.
I'm not really sure what you're referring to. Brook had heard about the Vinsmokes before from when they used to rule the North Blue, but I don't remember him ever seeming familiar with the Big Mom Pirates or their territory.
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So, are you saying that Belo Betty's fruit ONLY works on others and not on herself?
I don't think this was stated in this chapter, nor I do think Oda would choose that route. This could be like Miss Doublefinger's doping, a fruit that allows her to "dope" herself.
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So, are you saying that Belo Betty's fruit ONLY works on others and not on herself?
I don't think this was stated in this chapter, nor I do think Oda would choose that route. This could be like Miss Doublefinger's doping, a fruit that allows her to "dope" herself.
Why is a fruit that only works on others that farfetched of a concept?
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So should we expect to see the Celestial Dragons bludgeoned into a bloody pulp, by an angry mob full of people they've treated like crap for years roided out on Betty's cheer power? Because i'll seriously have to question why Betty even exists if that doesn't happen.
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There's Bonney's fruit too.
Tsuru's maybe? Not really sure. Wondering if Betty can use it on herself for self-motivation though. If it does then that fruit would be a miracle for a college student cramming for finals.
There is Mansherry.
And Law to a certain extent.
Hand't thought of Tsuru's: seems you're correct. Because of how we think the fruit works, using it on herself would incapacitate her, no?
Mansherry's fruit: right. That one too: haven't seen that fruit being used on herself, yet.
Bonney and Law don't count because we've seen those being used on the user himself (Bonney turning to a kid and Law removing bullets on himself).
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@Gecko:
The more I think about it, the more I think Lindbergh will be a villain if they turn out to not be a Mink. White supremacy as a theme doesn’t work if Lindbergh is a mink IMO. If he’s a Zoan user, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lindbergh does end up being a baddie. The W7 arc takes place at the height of the Oraq’s War unpopularity, and the WG flag is based off the NATO flag.
I guess we'll see. Minks don't seem to suffer the same oppression Fishmen do, so it wouldn't be like if Hack turned around and was like "maybe there's something to be said for the stability a bunch of authoritarian overlords bring." But you're right, if he's not a real mink (even though he probably is) I'd say the chances of him being a traitor go through the roof.
Interesting connection between NATO and the WG. I always figured the way the WG set themselves up as more of a united nations type group than a monarchy was just their in-universe marketing/branding, not any actual commentary on any real groups or treaties. I might have just missed it all, since I didn't get to read the Cipher Pol Saga in its actual context as it was coming out, and even if I had it started when I was like 11, so not the most up to date with the global politics of the time
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Why is a fruit that only works on others that farfetched of a concept?
It’s not farfetched but it’s not told either. That it works on herself would not surprise me
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So like
Team Revos or Team WG
Don't worry a few chapters later Nami will tell us who won after she opens up the newspaper.
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I guess we'll see. Minks don't seem to suffer the same oppression Fishmen do, so it wouldn't be like if Hack turned around and was like "maybe there's something to be said for the stability a bunch of authoritarian overlords bring." But you're right, if he's not a real mink (even though he probably is) I'd say the chances of him being a traitor go through the roof.
Interesting connection between NATO and the WG. I always figured the way the WG set themselves up as more of a united nations type group than a monarchy was just their in-universe marketing/branding, not any actual commentary on any real groups or treaties. I might have just missed it all, since I didn't get to read the Cipher Pol Saga in its actual context as it was coming out, and even if I had it started when I was like 11, so not the most up to date with the global politics of the time
The W7 arc is deeply political, and I remember lurking here when it was coming out. I first caught up right at the CP9 true identity reveal, but I was too young to make the Iraq connection until I recently reread it. Despite his sexism, Oda is a lot more radical than most of the fan base seems to think.
So there’s a break this week?
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@Gecko:
The W7 arc is deeply political, and I remember lurking here when it was coming out. I first caught up right at the CP9 true identity reveal, but I was too young to make the Iraq connection until I recently reread it. Despite his sexism, Oda is a lot more radical than most of the fan base seems to think.
I'll have to keep that in mind next time I reread that part of the story. Agreed completely about the last bit too. Sexism is easy to talk about because it's a hot button issue for the west right now, and Oda does have some issues in how he writes and draws women, but the things he does right tend to be understated. The okama being a thing at all, for example. I can't think of many other manga authors, let alone shonen authors, willing to represent Japan's queer community and that kind of gender fluidity outside of feminine prettyboy villains. Then there's the strong anti-autoritarian, anti-imperialist themes, commentary on genocides, systematic racism and the way governments can control information, unflattering depiction of the bourgeois and of course the idolisation of the anarchistic spirit of piracy. Issues with women aside, Oda seems to actually be a fairly progressive dude.
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I'll have to keep that in mind next time I reread that part of the story. Agreed completely about the last bit too. Sexism is easy to talk about because it's a hot button issue for the west right now, and Oda does have some issues in how he writes and draws women, but the things he does right tend to be understated. The okama being a thing at all, for example. I can't think of many other manga authors, let alone shonen authors, willing to represent Japan's queer community and that kind of gender fluidity outside of feminine prettyboy villains. Then there's the strong anti-autoritarian, anti-imperialist themes, commentary on genocides, systematic racism and the way governments can control information, unflattering depiction of the bourgeois and of course the idolisation of the anarchistic spirit of piracy. Issues with women aside, Oda seems to actually be a fairly progressive dude.
I studied the history of the Cold War, and there’s a perfect quote about how Japan is an economic giant but democratic pygmy. I’ll need to explain why.
The USA’s General MacArthur decided the day he landed in Japan after the war that the Emperor should he kept as a figurehead, because the Japanese people were too backwards for a republican government. Prior to that, the USA wanted to abolish the monarchy and execute Hirohito for the war Condra he was responsible for. The old class of Japanese fascists were supported by a USA and Japanese elite terrified of a communist revolution in Japan.
Since the mid-1950s, Japan has almost always been governed by the deeply conservative, post-fascist Liberal Democratic Party. Japan was basically a USA territory at this time, and they merged the Liberal and Democratic Parties to avoid the Socialist and Communist Party gaining power. The party is filled to the brim with the kids and grandkids of war criminals from WWII—Prime Minister Abe is the grandson of one of them. The LDP is constantly embracing war criminals to win votes from old Japanese people, and the Emperor himself seems to strongly disapprove of this. The Yakusini Shrine has Tojo in it, and LDP PMs go a lot. The Emperor never goes but he’s a true figurehead — the compromise between the USA’s desire for a republic and the LDP’s desire for a god-Emperor.
I live in China, and though the government despises the Japanese government for constantly acting like Holocaust deniers when they talk about WWII, they are VERY keen on studying why Japanese politics resembles Chinese politics more than most democratic countries. Factions within the dominant party (Communists in China, LDP in Japan) have been more important than the opposition in determining the countries’ path. In China, this is because of the Marxist-Leninist system, but in Japan it all stems from MacArthur.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Oda is one of the minority of Japanese people who vote against the Japanese LDP. Many of these voters consider the LDP as colluders in an American imperial system which renders Japan the 51st state. The Revolutionary Army opposes everything the LDP/WG/USA symbolizes to many of these voters. Queer rights, anti-imperialism, anti-totalitarianism and anti-Orwellian doublethink, racism, and of course evil monarchies.
Unfortunately, sexism in Japan is very ingrained to voters of all parties, so the rest of Oda’s political beliefs get lost in Western discussions of One Piece due to the way he draws and writes women (how he writes women is still far more feminist than the vast majority of male manga authors IMO, but having everyone look like Nami is far worse.) Oda IMO is a billionaire radical, perhaps a voter of the opposition Democratic Party or Communist Party (basically Sanders voters; they’ve renounced Lenin and violent revolution.) Time will tell if the Revolutionary Army ends up doing good or bad once they win. The War against the WG could turn into a civil war between different Revolutionary factions if Oda votes for the Democrats. If he votes for the Communists, it’s more likely the Revolution goes more smoothly.
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@.access:
Would never remember that. But now I remembered the Noro Noro beams could be reflected back at Foxy.
Anyways, will take the chance to say just like the Hollow Hollow fruit had a lot more to it than simply making people "hollow", I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the Cheer Cheer Fruit as well.
Don't remember me of the stupid devil fruits that do things that should be way beyond their scope.
The logical progression of the hollow fruit would be to make the person more controllable, possess them.
The astral projection is strong, but under the umbrela of "ghost things"
But then. Exploding ghosts. hmmm, nope.
Law, Sugar, Perona, Hancock, I'm sure there are a ton of big mom's crew that I haven't categorized but it just jumps to mind Mont'dor, Kuma's, the list of devil fruits that are just "random skill tree" keep growing.
Just removing the lust component of Hancocks, and it being just atention, or seeing her improves consistency.
Shonen manga is about building up your rules, and breaking them to show that this new character is EVEN AWESOMER, or to make the protagonist beat a cheater by traping them in the rules, not to make a power set that is needesly complex and has little to do with what was before.
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@Gecko:
I studied the history of the Cold War, and there’s a perfect quote about how Japan is an economic giant but democratic pygmy. I’ll need to explain why.
The USA’s General MacArthur decided the day he landed in Japan after the war that the Emperor should he kept as a figurehead, because the Japanese people were too backwards for a republican government. Prior to that, the USA wanted to abolish the monarchy and execute Hirohito for the war Condra he was responsible for. The old class of Japanese fascists were supported by a USA and Japanese elite terrified of a communist revolution in Japan.
Since the mid-1950s, Japan has almost always been governed by the deeply conservative, post-fascist Liberal Democratic Party. Japan was basically a USA territory at this time, and they merged the Liberal and Democratic Parties to avoid the Socialist and Communist Party gaining power. The party is filled to the brim with the kids and grandkids of war criminals from WWII—Prime Minister Abe is the grandson of one of them. The LDP is constantly embracing war criminals to win votes from old Japanese people, and the Emperor himself seems to strongly disapprove of this. The Yakusini Shrine has Tojo in it, and LDP PMs go a lot. The Emperor never goes but he’s a true figurehead — the compromise between the USA’s desire for a republic and the LDP’s desire for a god-Emperor.
I live in China, and though the government despises the Japanese government for constantly acting like Holocaust deniers when they talk about WWII, they are VERY keen on studying why Japanese politics resembles Chinese politics more than most democratic countries. Factions within the dominant party (Communists in China, LDP in Japan) have been more important than the opposition in determining the countries’ path. In China, this is because of the Marxist-Leninist system, but in Japan it all stems from MacArthur.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Oda is one of the minority of Japanese people who vote against the Japanese LDP. Many of these voters consider the LDP as colluders in an American imperial system which renders Japan the 51st state. The Revolutionary Army opposes everything the LDP/WG/USA symbolizes to many of these voters. Queer rights, anti-imperialism, anti-totalitarianism and anti-Orwellian doublethink, racism, and of course evil monarchies.
Unfortunately, sexism in Japan is very ingrained to voters of all parties, so the rest of Oda’s political beliefs get lost in Western discussions of One Piece due to the way he draws and writes women (how he writes women is still far more feminist than the vast majority of male manga authors IMO, but having everyone look like Nami is far worse.) Oda IMO is a billionaire radical, perhaps a voter of the opposition Democratic Party or Communist Party (basically Sanders voters; they’ve renounced Lenin and violent revolution.) Time will tell if the Revolutionary Army ends up doing good or bad once they win. The War against the WG could turn into a civil war between different Revolutionary factions if Oda votes for the Democrats. If he votes for the Communists, it’s more likely the Revolution goes more smoothly.
That's an incredible analysis, thanks for taking the time to type it out. If you ever have the time, more talks of this type on the social/historical context of different parts of One Piece here or on reddit or wherever else you post are the kind of thread I'd turn up to. It's the kind of thing that very strongly tends to get lost in translation and overlooked by western fans. Personally I think we're more likely to see the revolution ending well, just based on the tone and feel of the series so far. The RA has been too unambiguously heroic and their final takeover will probably be too close to the end of the series to properly go into what'd happen if they broke into factions after taking power. Even if we get a traitorous Lindbergh, he'll be an outlier that causes a plot obstacle rather than the source of complex internal politics.
And just to clarify my feelings on Oda's women, the worst part is definitely the namiclone art, with powers based on things women stereotypically like and narratives that keep them from getting in a real right and busting up their pretty faces bringing up the rear. But in terms of having actual distinct personalities and varied motivations, they aren't bad by any standards, let alone shonen manga ones. Credit where it's due, I also really like that he tends not to write sterotypically catty female rivalries. The women in One Piece are supportive of each other, Nami in particular going all ride or die for a new ladyfriend every other island. But I do still wish he'd figured out more ways to draw them in 20 years.
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@.access:
Would never remember that. But now I remembered the Noro Noro beams could be reflected back at Foxy.
Anyways, will take the chance to say just like the Hollow Hollow fruit had a lot more to it than simply making people "hollow", I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the Cheer Cheer Fruit as well.
Fun, I hadn't yet considered them as opposites.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So we ended the arc without ever finding out what was going on with Brook. He seemed to be too in-the-know this arc, as if he had a past with the Big Mom pirates, or at least with the area. Any theories out there? Please quote if responding.
I'm personally leaning more towards us fans reading too much into those panels, but you never know - maybe Oda is building up to something there.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Gecko:
The W7 arc is deeply political, and I remember lurking here when it was coming out. I first caught up right at the CP9 true identity reveal, but I was too young to make the Iraq connection until I recently reread it. Despite his sexism, Oda is a lot more radical than most of the fan base seems to think.
So there’s a break this week?
I love that about Oda. I actually care about that in the positive, than I do about any of his (shall we say…) "problematic" aspects in the negative. Overall, it's an inspiring comic.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'll have to keep that in mind next time I reread that part of the story. Agreed completely about the last bit too. Sexism is easy to talk about because it's a hot button issue for the west right now, and Oda does have some issues in how he writes and draws women, but the things he does right tend to be understated. The okama being a thing at all, for example. I can't think of many other manga authors, let alone shonen authors, willing to represent Japan's queer community and that kind of gender fluidity outside of feminine prettyboy villains. Then there's the strong anti-autoritarian, anti-imperialist themes, commentary on genocides, systematic racism and the way governments can control information, unflattering depiction of the bourgeois and of course the idolisation of the anarchistic spirit of piracy. Issues with women aside, Oda seems to actually be a fairly progressive dude.
Yeah, I agree. Every now and then, something like the near black-face rendition of a queer character (basically just the okamas Sanji ran from) will give me pause, but even then I can sort of excuse it because of that particular context and because Oda draws over half of his characters as strange caricatures. For the most part though, hes the only battle manga author I know of with badass fighting okamas - with Mr. 2 and Ivankov being fan favorites to boot. It's really quite cool.
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That was neat. Revolutionary Commander roll call: We've got a shaved Brownbeard (by which I mean thick-framed and fat-faced, although he resembles Aladdin a bit more with that shorter beard) with an amped-up Level 2 version of Mr. Pink's DF; a Baby 5 clone with the powers of a cheerleader who forgot her pom-poms; a hybrid clone of Sabo mixed with a cat who has Franky-style tech genius; and one of the mid-bosses from the Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask.
We talked about seeing this in the last chapter and missed out on it, but here it is, just one chapter later, and I got my wish of seeing Sabo and Dragon's reactions to Luffy's exploits, but I'm disappointed in how little of a reaction Dragon has to his son's victories. Sabo's reaction is fantastic, I LOL'd, but Koala's overly business-like for some reason instead of sharing the enthusiasm. Ah well, Iva-chan's reaction makes up for everyone else's lack of one.
I love how they ended that, giving the money to the people, Robin Hood style. Way to get them on their side, showing them the government doesn't give a rat's ass about them and that there's a better way. Not only will they be there for them anytime, anywhere, they'll help without a thought of being rewarded. And the way the people talk, it's like they couldn't even conceive of a system that didn't involve paying tribute or being killed. No wonder so many of them haven't already banded together with the Revolutionaries, thought of bucking the status quo hasn't even crossed their minds, they've just surrendered altogether and resigned themselves to things being how they are. That will make for a particularly vicious opposition once they get the chance to stand against their tyrannical overlords. Can't wait to see that happen.
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@Gecko:
I studied the history of the Cold War, and there’s a perfect quote about how Japan is an economic giant but democratic pygmy. I’ll need to explain why.
The USA’s General MacArthur decided the day he landed in Japan after the war that the Emperor should he kept as a figurehead, because the Japanese people were too backwards for a republican government. Prior to that, the USA wanted to abolish the monarchy and execute Hirohito for the war Condra he was responsible for. The old class of Japanese fascists were supported by a USA and Japanese elite terrified of a communist revolution in Japan.
Since the mid-1950s, Japan has almost always been governed by the deeply conservative, post-fascist Liberal Democratic Party. Japan was basically a USA territory at this time, and they merged the Liberal and Democratic Parties to avoid the Socialist and Communist Party gaining power. The party is filled to the brim with the kids and grandkids of war criminals from WWII—Prime Minister Abe is the grandson of one of them. The LDP is constantly embracing war criminals to win votes from old Japanese people, and the Emperor himself seems to strongly disapprove of this. The Yakusini Shrine has Tojo in it, and LDP PMs go a lot. The Emperor never goes but he’s a true figurehead — the compromise between the USA’s desire for a republic and the LDP’s desire for a god-Emperor.
I live in China, and though the government despises the Japanese government for constantly acting like Holocaust deniers when they talk about WWII, they are VERY keen on studying why Japanese politics resembles Chinese politics more than most democratic countries. Factions within the dominant party (Communists in China, LDP in Japan) have been more important than the opposition in determining the countries’ path. In China, this is because of the Marxist-Leninist system, but in Japan it all stems from MacArthur.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Oda is one of the minority of Japanese people who vote against the Japanese LDP. Many of these voters consider the LDP as colluders in an American imperial system which renders Japan the 51st state. The Revolutionary Army opposes everything the LDP/WG/USA symbolizes to many of these voters. Queer rights, anti-imperialism, anti-totalitarianism and anti-Orwellian doublethink, racism, and of course evil monarchies.
Unfortunately, sexism in Japan is very ingrained to voters of all parties, so the rest of Oda’s political beliefs get lost in Western discussions of One Piece due to the way he draws and writes women (how he writes women is still far more feminist than the vast majority of male manga authors IMO, but having everyone look like Nami is far worse.) Oda IMO is a billionaire radical, perhaps a voter of the opposition Democratic Party or Communist Party (basically Sanders voters; they’ve renounced Lenin and violent revolution.) Time will tell if the Revolutionary Army ends up doing good or bad once they win. The War against the WG could turn into a civil war between different Revolutionary factions if Oda votes for the Democrats. If he votes for the Communists, it’s more likely the Revolution goes more smoothly.
That was very interesting to read!
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That's an incredible analysis, thanks for taking the time to type it out. If you ever have the time, more talks of this type on the social/historical context of different parts of One Piece here or on reddit or wherever else you post are the kind of thread I'd turn up to. It's the kind of thing that very strongly tends to get lost in translation and overlooked by western fans. Personally I think we're more likely to see the revolution ending well, just based on the tone and feel of the series so far. The RA has been too unambiguously heroic and their final takeover will probably be too close to the end of the series to properly go into what'd happen if they broke into factions after taking power. Even if we get a traitorous Lindbergh, he'll be an outlier that causes a plot obstacle rather than the source of complex internal politics.
And just to clarify my feelings on Oda's women, the worst part is definitely the namiclone art, with powers based on things women stereotypically like and narratives that keep them from getting in a real right and busting up their pretty faces bringing up the rear. But in terms of having actual distinct personalities and varied motivations, they aren't bad by any standards, let alone shonen manga ones. Credit where it's due, I also really like that he tends not to write sterotypically catty female rivalries. The women in One Piece are supportive of each other, Nami in particular going all ride or die for a new ladyfriend every other island. But I do still wish he'd figured out more ways to draw them in 20 years.
So many good posts, I love you guys!
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Yeah, I agree. Every now and then, something like the near black-face rendition of a queer character (basically just the okamas Sanji ran from) will give me pause, but even then I can sort of excuse it because of that particular context and because Oda draws over half of his characters as strange caricatures. For the most part though, hes the only battle manga author I know of with badass fighting okamas - with Mr. 2 and Ivankov being fan favorites to boot. It's really quite cool.
I reckon the problem with Sanji's okama friends isn't so much how they look (because like you said, caricatures are everywhere) as it is how the narrative treats them. They're trans and they don't pass well, or they just like those clothes even if they don't really pull the look off, some people are like that or look like that. Not the worst thing in the world to be showing it. The issue I have with those scenes is that Sanji's disgust is played off as a joke instead of a problem. "Oh look he hates trans people because they're not real women, let's all have a laugh at this over-the-top personality quirk." I understand that it must read very different in a Japanese context, but it's hard not to notice, reading from a western perspective. See, Morely I don't mind. You could make the same case for him being an unfortunate stereotype of an unattractive, plainly blokey crossdresser, but it's not made light of in the same way. There are reactions to his (her?) appearance, certainly, but it's much less overt and not played for laughs as much as Sanji's screaming fits.
And it's Sanji. As with the crippling chivalry, Oda can't seem to get the difference between personality quirks and personality flaws down for this one character. And ain't that just the heart of every debate this community's ever had about Sanji?
And the variety of okama characters as well! It's not just slipping one queer character under the radar. Ivan, Inazuma, Bentham, Morley, four queer characters with enormously different appearances and personalities. It's great he's not just slipping one character under the radar and have that one need to act as representation for an enormous community. You have to wonder what kind of pushback there was from Jump about that kind of thing when he first pitched them.
The only comparable shonen character that comes to mind for me is One Punch Man's Puri Puri Prisoner. (And he's kinda uncomfortably predatory, so I wouldn't talk him up as brilliant representation.) It really is something that almost no other authors are willing to try.
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And as an extra note, the number of okama characters, Oda's casualness about them being in the story, and the fact he was willing to give the main character a non-standard minority sexuality (Luffy's canon asexuality) are the things that let me hold on a slither of hope for my headcanon of a gay Nami someday being confirmed.
There's so much subtext guys, I will weep if Oda blows it all by hooking her up with a man in the epilogue or something.
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Don't remember me of the stupid devil fruits that do things that should be way beyond their scope.
The logical progression of the hollow fruit would be to make the person more controllable, possess them.
The astral projection is strong, but under the umbrela of "ghost things"
But then. Exploding ghosts. hmmm, nope.
Law, Sugar, Perona, Hancock, I'm sure there are a ton of big mom's crew that I haven't categorized but it just jumps to mind Mont'dor, Kuma's, the list of devil fruits that are just "random skill tree" keep growing.
Just removing the lust component of Hancocks, and it being just atention, or seeing her improves consistency.
Shonen manga is about building up your rules, and breaking them to show that this new character is EVEN AWESOMER, or to make the protagonist beat a cheater by traping them in the rules, not to make a power set that is needesly complex and has little to do with what was before.
Can we talk about Viola using the Stare Stare Fruit to control her tears and use them as a weapon because "tears and eyes are connected… I guess?"?