so what is the purpose of luffy's attack on this page?
his hands circled around his body before it faced katakuri's attacks …. why not just punch katakuri from behind/side? (he then would only need to avoid that flail attack)
Chapter 895: Pirate Luffy vs. Sweet Commander Katakuri
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so what is the purpose of luffy's attack on this page?
https://img.mangastream.com/cdn/manga/51/4897/0016-0017.png
his hands circled around his body before it faced katakuri's attacks …. why not just punch katakuri from behind/side? (he then would only need to avoid that flail attack)I thought it weird too, but Luffy mentioned Python keeps speeding up the more it stretches so it was probably to give it more speed/strength.
EDIT: As for why not attack him from behind, remember Katakuri was moving incredibly fast in his Donutman form, you can see Luffy's arm was already doing those curves in the previous page before Katakuri reached that point.
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Luffy appears to use his right arm for the King Cobra so he might try to block Katakuri's attack with his left arm, but I would really love for Katakuri to win or at least for the fight to end in a draw, but we'll see.
IMO Katakuri should win but let luffy go, out of respect and admiration for him, that would probably hurt luffy's pride but it could help him realize (once again) that he shouldn't underestimate the New World, especially the Yonkou. That way we could potentially see a 1v1 against Kaidou (with a more matured luffy), not from the get go but towards the middle/end of the fight. It's probably going to be a 4 or 5 against kaidou (luffy, law, kid, hawkins and zoro?) but one can dream.
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@.access:
I thought it weird too, but Luffy mentioned Python keeps speeding up the more it stretches so it was probably to give it more speed/strength.
It just occured to me that it's probably the purpose of this "Snake Man" form - because he uses less armaments haki on his body he have more reserves of it for extending his arm and performing this type of snake-hand attack. His base form probably isn't any faster, just the attack itself is.
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Okay, on the same week Luffy showed Snakeman, Destro appeared on My Hero Academia.
Coincidence?
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I want Luffy to win but when i compare the stats the victory should go to Katakuri. The only way I see Luffy winning is if after this clash Katakuri is weaken and he uses Bound man to finish him off. The most i see for Luffy a this point is a draw.
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@.access:
The chapter was amazing! Like I said in the spoiler thread, I am not usually a fan of the action in this manga, but this time it was perfect. The drawings were beautiful, the choreography was great, the whole thing was intense and you could really get the sensation of not being able to take a breath.
That said, I have to agree with those that don't see much sense in Snakeman.
I mean, first: why didn't he used it before? Like, when he saw Boundman didn't work, shouldn't his first reaction be trying to change it to Snakeman to get extra speed?
Second: it really doesn't add anything to Boundman except a vague idea that "I'm faster in this form" that we can't even actually perceive. If Python was an exclusive feature to this form that would make sense, but we saw Boundman using Python in the same way against Doflamingo.
Third: after HOURS of "CoO/future sight training" Luffy's last move in the fight simply disregarded it. It is connecting attacks because it manages to alter its trajectory too fast for Katakuri to react properly even though he can predict its original movement, it has nothing to do with Luffy now being able to foresee Katakuri movements (and that became clear once the donut form entered the stage).The chapter is still one of the best in the last years and I loved everything about it, but I can't help but think Snakemen itself was a poor choice for the last development. My feeling right now is that Luffy could have reached the same conclusion had he used Snakemen as soon as he went back to the Mirro-world with his haki recharged, but he decided to postpone the end of the fight for hours until he could have improved his own CoO for later usage (something he doesn't need to finish Katakuri, but believes will be useful in future fights).
This is a smart post and I'll just reply to a couple things
We did see the Python attack against Doflamingo, minus the "Jet" terminology. Jet of course being what he uses for Gear 2, and with his mention of speed, it does seem like that was just a (different) taste of it in his other form. The Snakeman form is fine (although the visual differences could've been more extreme), but the reader's impact of this form's abilities would've been greater basically if we hadn't seen the Python before it was seen here, which is the real "home" for these attacks. So that's something that I believe Oda could've planned out a bit better.
As for CoO. Before re-entering the mirror world, when sitting with Brulee, Luffy talked about how Katakuri's haki was wearing down (prompting Brulee to comment about how he's not stupid and was thinking about the fight), then he re-entered the mirrors a bunch of times while waiting on his own body to recover– this along with possibly drawing out the battle by taking so many hits and getting back up before transforming like this may have both been meant to wear out Katakuri's CoO over time. I believe that 1) wearing out Katakuri's CoO in this way combined with 2) increasing his own CoO capabilities and 3) the extra speed of the Snakeman form was his end goal/plan. It may not all be pointed out to us in the end (i.e. "oh, so this was your plan all along"), but we did see his CoO improve before his transformation at least, so now's when it all comes together.
There is one thought I'd like to add of my own, which is-- the amount of damage Luffy took vs Katakuri over these hours means Katakuri should be nowhere near falling. However, if Katakuri's CoO is worn out but Luffy can continue using his own CoO without being weakened by the post-gear-4 transformation too much, then Luffy could really just keep pummeling Katakuri with no relatiation and win. (Whether Oda will do it this way or not remains to be seen)
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Yeah, Snakeman attacks apparently speed up every time they bounce (change direction).
Plus the last page is the continuation of the previous two panels where Luffy notices Kata´s attack and attempts to plant a large punch on his face.So Luffy speeds up and punches forward, which should deal more damage to somebody whirl-speeding towards you than if you punch him from behind, as you would only hit him with the difference of their speeds.
It´s like Luffy driving a Ferrari at 200 mph in the opposing lane of Kata´s 100 mph SUV. If he hits him in the face (right through the windshield/front window), that´s 300 mph worth of speed and ton of damage. Hitting him from behind would result in 100 mph (so 3x less in this scenario).
Hope that makes sense.
EDIT: Regarding Luffy´s steam collar and "Jet" adjective in one of his most sped-up attacks. Does this mean Snakeman combines G4+G2 here?
And was King Kong Gun vs Dofla G4+G3 or just more air pumped into G4?EDIT #2: Katakuri dodged a 4-bounced one but had to block the 6-bounced "Jet" one, which sent him flying. After that, he decided to get on the offensive to reduce the number of bounces and so he was able to deal with Black Mamba (Gattling Culverin). Then we see him kick-block another 3-bounce one with his leg even. We can now see him being able to deal with 3-4 bounce ones.
Although the last one has 3 bounces, it is the King version of his attack, so it´s bound to be much stronger than before. Katakuri should not be able to shrug it off if he gets hit. But good tactical approach from Katakuri.
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I just feel that this fight has been pushing it to the extreme, even by OP standards. I thought Luffy took too much beating in the fight against Doflamingo… here, the fight was basically one-sided for literally hours. Even if the tables are turned I just don’t see it reasonable for Katakuri to get beaten; his hp should be way higher than Luffy at this point... Luffy sucks at dodging and blocking.
Also, awakening just seem too overpowered as it appears to not exhaust the user in any way and be limitless.
With that said, wouldn’t it be amusing to see Luffy coil one arm around Katakuri (like a snake) and then launch a kong gun in his face :)
Iirc, didn’t Luffy do something like that in order to pull him into the mirror world? Don’t remember which chapter it may have been and haven’t got time to search atm.Edit: Alright, just looked it up. Back then Luffy grabbed him with a big hand. Still, snake mode in one arm and pound in the other. If he manage that, Observation haki won't mean shit :)
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weak chapter compared to the last one. Just one of those full action, no talking for action movies fans. The lack of proper dialogue made it feel short and not much going on. It's almost like some Bleach chapter.
And it doesn't help that snakeman is based on 1 attack from boundman and also looks like the slim version of boundman.
There are way too many important events outside of mirrorworld for a full luffy action chapter to work, like bm capone and cake, sunny ship vs smoothie, or sanji and chocolate Island.
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With that said, wouldn’t it be amusing to see Luffy coil one arm around Katakuri (like a snake) and then launch a kong gun in his face :)
Iirc, didn’t Luffy do something like that in order to pull him into the mirror world? Don’t remember which chapter it may have been and haven’t got time to search atm.Edit: Alright, just looked it up. Back then Luffy grabbed him with a big hand. Still, snake mode in one arm and pound in the other. If he manage that, Observation haki won't mean shit :)
That would involve Luffy finding creative ways to use his ability to gain the edge in combat.
You know we don't do that any more! Stop being a rabble-rouser.
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But his fruit is like #1 defensively against blunt attacks to the point where even strong ones don´t deal any damage to him.
Katakuri uses Armament, that´s why he is able to deal any damage at all with his punches and kicks to Luffy, who also uses Armament to block.
Only real heavy damage Luffy took was from that Trident attack for obvious reasons. That´s why Katakuri made a big mistake by dropping his weapon and attempting to close combat Luffy.
So to whoever calls BS that Luffy is still alive and kicking after hours of abuse, please remember that Luffy has an almost unparalelled tenacity, he dodged a lot of stuff and his fruit + Armament gives him the best defense out there when it comes to physical brawls.
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IMO Katakuri should win but let luffy go
He already wounded himself, what else do you want the guy to do? Katakuri wants a good fight but that's not changing his mind about taking down the captain of a crew that invaded his territory and took part in a plan to assassinate his mom.
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@uniaka:
weak chapter compared to the last one. Juts one of those full action, no talking for action movies fans. The lack of proper dialogue made it feel short and not much going on.
[hide]
[/hide]Yep. Look how badly draw those pages are. From now on every chapter should focus on making us bound with fictional characters and understand their feelings. We don't need needless action.
And it doesn't help that snakeman is based on 1 attack from boundman and also looks like the slim version of boundman.
Have you forgot about Organ Gun? That's what Black Mamba basically is. Just because it is emphatisizing Speed and Elasticity over Power does not make an one trick pony.
There are way too many important events outside of mirrorworld for a full luffy action chapter to work, like bm capone and cake, sunny ship vs smoothie, or sanji and chocolate Island.
Show one chapter with 2 out of these 3 scenarios, people would complain about pacing.
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Great chapter art wise, but can we fucking end this fight already?
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Germa 66, strawhats, firetank pirates and fishman pirates are still around
Assuming sanji takes cracker, luffy takes katakuri and big mom is out for the count escaping the rest should be no problem
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So jet black mamba to finish the fight as Sanji comes to Luffy to cheer him on and tell him to return back with them? (Sounds familiar)
Luffy definitely has an all out offensive g4 form probably based on amplifying his Leo attacks too.
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I agree that Katakuri looked like the main character in this chapter. Snakeman just hasn't quite impressed yet. Still, I think everyone needs to remember that Luffy doesn't have to K.O. Katakuri. If/when he sends him flying through the mirror and has him land on his back in front of everyone, he wins.
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No. Sanji will save him and give him food. Thats the point in thic arc.
IMO thats about as likely as Vergo has metal paramecia theory
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Were people actually expecting Snakeman to not envolve stretching and speed?
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But his fruit is like #1 defensively against blunt attacks to the point where even strong ones don´t deal any damage to him.
Katakuri uses Armament, that´s why he is able to deal any damage at all with his punches and kicks to Luffy, who also uses Armament to block.
Only real heavy damage Luffy took was from that Trident attack for obvious reasons. That´s why Katakuri made a big mistake by dropping his weapon and attempting to close combat Luffy.
So to whoever calls BS that Luffy is still alive and kicking after hours of abuse, please remember that Luffy has an almost unparalelled tenacity, he dodged a lot of stuff and his fruit + Armament gives him the best defense out there when it comes to physical brawls.
Well, that USED to be believable, but once Oda introduced the concept that everyone and their auntie's mama would have COA, the advantages of being made of rubber became completely moot. Which sucks MUCH more than I can express here. For all intents and purposes, Luffy has been taking all of the punches and blows of this fight as if he were a real boy. I would say the ground slam in this chapter was an exception, except Luffy goes out of his way to explicitly say that it hurt. What, does the ground have Armament Haki now too?
Were people actually expecting Snakeman to not envolve stretching and speed?
I'm two-thousand, seven-hudred, sixty-five percent (2,765%) certain that had we not seen that one attack in Dressrosa, this chapter would be blowing our minds. lol.
I don't think Oda had this mode fully fleshed out when he thought of Gear 4th, or he wouldn't have included Culverin against Doffy.
And with all the attacks that we've seen Katakuri tanking, there's NO way this one "final punch" punch is gonna be enough to suddenly take him down.
@Kaido:
Just gonna leave this here
This is why we can't have nice things! #dead
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Just gonna leave this here
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so what is the purpose of luffy's attack on this page?
https://img.mangastream.com/cdn/manga/51/4897/0016-0017.png
his hands circled around his body before it faced katakuri's attacks …. why not just punch katakuri from behind/side? (he then would only need to avoid that flail attack)Because it gets faster and stronger the more it bounces off. Luffy explained this.
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Honestly, if Luffy hadn´t used Culverin against Dofla, Snakeman would´ve seem much more "awesome".
But like this, many people complain that Snakeman is nothing new. Well, they have already seen Culverin and this is just a slimmer, faster (which we are being told) version of it.
Not to mention Culverin is one of the weirdest attacks in his arsenal. Wacky / ridiculous / whatever, but I personally wouldn´t use "cool" to describe it.
Maybe that´s the root of the disappointment. A special form built around the least cool of his new moves. Dunno.Meanwhile, Katakuri stole the show with a freaking donut spinning arm mace turned sticky flail spinning ground smash…something worthy of this chapter´s main character. :ninja:
Well, that USED to be believable, but once Oda introduced the concept that everyone and their auntie's mama would have COA, the advantages of being made of rubber became completely moot. Which sucks MUCH more than I can express here. For all intents and purposes, Luffy has been taking all of the punches and blows of this fight as if he were a real boy. I would say the ground slam in this chapter was an exception, except Luffy goes out of his way to explicitly say that it hurt. What, does the ground have Armament Haki now too?
Wait, Armament doesn´t erase his rubber body, if I´m not mistaken, that´s what Teach does. It hurts him but he doesn´t take nowhere near 100% of the damage with his fruit.
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Also, I should point out that Katakuri is probably not as durable as people might expect.
He's gone years without taking a hit, and has supposedly never lost a fight. His focus is entirely on using his Haki to dodge attacks. So it wouldn't exactly be natural for him to be able to take a lot of abuse if he's not conditioned to tank attacks, and thus Luffy has a bigger chance of knocking out Katakuri while Katakuri has had to press on his attack on Luffy for hours.
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Some people don't even realise how funny some of this fight is. You all forget that Oda gave Luffy the gomu gomu no mi to make it look funny when he fights.
Come on look at the bottom panel, he shoots his arm bounces in a triangle and hits his opponents face.
If you stop and think about it, it's quite funny.
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@Kaido:
Just gonna leave this here
People forget this;
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IMO thats about as likely as Vergo has metal paramecia theory
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@Kaido:
Also, I should point out that Katakuri is probably not as durable as people might expect.
He's gone years without taking a hit, and has supposedly never lost a fight. His focus is entirely on using his Haki to dodge attacks. So it wouldn't exactly be natural for him to be able to take a lot of abuse if he's not conditioned to tank attacks, and thus Luffy has a bigger chance of knocking out Katakuri with a few strong hits than Katakuri has of beating Luffy into submission.
I was thinking this too. Didn't other Sweet Commander go down in one shot because he wasn't used to getting hit? Same concept might apply here.
Gotta say, these recent weeks has been great.
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IMO thats about as likely as Vergo has metal paramecia theory
LoL @you mentioning this the first time I've been here for ages.
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It is indeed funny.
And that panel is exquisite.
But when funny/weird faces cool/badass, most people favor the latter. -
Sanji should fight Daifuku. I still have hope for that.
But most likely he will fight Owen or Snack. Unfortunately.
But hey, who knows really if Oda will not Bring back Daifuku flying on his Genie to Cacao Island.
Sanji needs to show his Life Return technique that alters his looks and buffs him up or rather shows how strong his body became.
Ivankov said that eating Okama food shapes up their bodies, maybe Sanji is in constant small frame form with use of life return to keep his looks but it hides both his slightly altered appearance as well as his current physical strength.
I think that what Sanji will show us this arc will make us think that Vergo vs Sanji could have been alike to Katakuri vs Luffy that we got. So Strawhat fighting with stronger enemy and showing absolute all that he has.
Compared to Luffy, Sanji showed very small amount of new things and I am sure that he still is somewhere around Jinbe strength. It is perfect time to strike with Sanjis strength after Luffy vs Katakuri and after all of that time when we already lost hope for Sanji showing off as fighter.
Really a lot depends on who will Oda pick for Sanjis final fight during this arc. For me it felt like during Wedding Katakuri vs Luffy has already started or they were paired so to speak.
I had same impression with Daifuku and Sanji back then.I think it's too late to start a fight at this point, the arc is almost over. The villain from this level and up are not the type that goes down in one chapter. Ussop won't go down in one chapter how much more a Yonkou underling.
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Here is a better one.
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so what is the purpose of luffy's attack on this page?
https://img.mangastream.com/cdn/manga/51/4897/0016-0017.png
his hands circled around his body before it faced katakuri's attacks …. why not just punch katakuri from behind/side? (he then would only need to avoid that flail attack)Because the longer the stretches, the more faster and powerful it becomes.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
Also, I should point out that Katakuri is probably not as durable as people might expect.
He's gone years without taking a hit, and has supposedly never lost a fight. His focus is entirely on using his Haki to dodge attacks. So it wouldn't exactly be natural for him to be able to take a lot of abuse if he's not conditioned to tank attacks, and thus Luffy has a bigger chance of knocking out Katakuri while Katakuri has had to press on his attack on Luffy for hours.
Of course he's not. He's huffing, wheezing and wobbling when he's taken fewer hits. He almost killed himself with Mogura.
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If we're doing Spongebob reactions today…
@Sereques:Because the longer the stretches, the more faster and powerful it becomes.
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IMO thats about as likely as Vergo has metal paramecia theory
I miss those glory days. My favorite is Kaido hiding with Block D fighters as meadows.
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Of course he's not. He's huffing, wheezing and wobbling when he's taken fewer hits. He almost killed himself with Mogura.
Well yeah. I just wanted to address inevitable fan complaining when Katakuri doesn't end up being a tank, because I'm pretty sure I've already seen questioning about why he's suffered this much already.
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I miss those glory days. My favorite is Kaido hiding with Block D fighters as meadows.
Yeah if i remember correctly that theory was mainstream and about half of AP bought into it for two weeks
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Man, this is the best fight I can remember in One Piece. Since maybe Lucci? Or ever? And I love how Oda brought Katakuri's donut love back into play.
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The snake can turn around and becomes faster as it stretches:
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The fight will be a draw, but Katakuri will fall to ground, hence conceding in shame.
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This chapter moved quite quickly. I liked that though as it contributes to the feeling of the fight escalating to a more intense stage. I also like that both characters are still trading blows and hopefully it ends up as much a face-off as the likes of Luffy vs Lucci (the last match-up that felt like an outright brawl and not too much trickery with each character's devil fruit).
I hope Oda gives Katakuri an avenue to return even if he gets beaten. His honourable behaviour and toughness have won me over already.
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Absolutely Great chapter I loved all the action, and his form being an afvanced application of something we already knew about was cool too.
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meh chapter and meh 'new form' for me.
bound man already does all this stuff and the increase in speed isn't really justified by anything other than 'it does'.
tankman at least made sense because the haki was located in different parts of the body, but here it's pretty much the same as usual…also, luffy is still getting hit a bazillion more times than katakuri, yet I'm supposed to believe that this last attack is gonna be the decisive one.
also, what's up with the whole 'i' m saying whatever it's on my mind' stuff?
So yeah I’m sorry. I’m a hype man usually. But this new form hasn’t shown us anything different from Boundman almost at all. I would have thought the showcasing would be better. Hey look that thing Boundman does this also does. But the Good part of the Haki rubber doesn’t work in this form. And he’s still blocking most of your super fast shots. Hopefully it gets more unique after this awful intro.
I concur. I would have preferred a more unique fight style. Like Luffy extending his body and moving with the evasiveness and coiling of a snake like Sandersonia, or inflating his leg muscles instead of his arms like Boundman. Or at least Boundman not being able to use Culverin while only Snakeman can. Instead of Snakeman being the Gear Second to Boundman's Gear Third. And the design itself doesn't wow me at all like Boundman did, although other might prefer it since it looks less goofy (but I love clever quirky designs). I already gave my thoughts about that in the spoiler thread.
Still, I must say that was definitely a pleasant fight to read through. The choreography here was sick. And this is weird to say, but there was something oddly endearing to me about how Luffy kept whining about his damage during the fight. He's childish but inspiringly steadfast about what he's set his mind to. This fight's a microcosm about what Luffy's all about while taking the beating of a lifetime. And Katakuri's ferocious nature in this fight was tight. The way he looked after launching Luffy into the ground and blocking a Culverin with a kick looked so awesome. I also liked seeing his giant spike arm swing, it helps make the spikes in his attire actually say something about his characterization than looking try hard edgy.
With all that being said, maybe King Cobra could have been designed… better? I get that Culverin gets stronger/faster the longer it goes, but it still looks like an average Jet Culverin.
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I wonder how DoFlamingo (at full strength ,unlike when he fought vs SH after being weakened by TL) would fare against Katakuri
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Wait, Armament doesn´t erase his rubber body, if I´m not mistaken, that´s what Teach does. It hurts him but he doesn´t take nowhere near 100% of the damage with his fruit.
No, but Haki has been confirmed to allow the user to make contact with the real body of Devil Fruit users. So when Luffy gets punched in his chest, it's not with his rubber chest, but his real boy chest.
I can't get over how worthless Katakuri's Devil Fruit would be if he did not have some serious Haki going on…
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No, but Haki has been confirmed to allow the user to make contact with the real body of Devil Fruit users. So when Luffy gets punched in his chest, it's not with his rubber chest, but his real boy chest.
I can't get over how worthless Katakuri's Devil Fruit would be if he did not have some serious Haki going on…
Didnt fight with Doffy demonstrate that if Luffy uses arnament haki he can still retain his rubber body even when attacked with a haki attack?
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FALL ALREADY KATAKURI!!!
I probably forgot a few examples, but is this the first time Luffy hasn't nicknamed his opponent? If it is, then it's a neat detail.
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I probably forgot a few examples, but is this the first time Luffy hasn't nicknamed his opponent? If it is, then it's a neat detail.
Dont think Arlong had a nickname? or did he?
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Dont think Arlong had a nickname? or did he?
I think you might be right. I remember "Which one of you is Arlong."
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Just cause one guy is physically stronger than his/her opponent doesn't mean a win is guaranteed. Just cause the stronger guy lands more hits than the opponent doesn't mean a win is guaranteed.
Luffy is Ali and Katakuri is Foreman.
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This made me wish the fight wasn't more even up until now. Now we have Luffy who developed Observation enough to stand a chance with a new form that makes him roughly even to Katakuri. Even though he's complaining about hunger, which might imply he'd be struggling less if he was fed, maybe?
Anyway, expected something more developed than Gomu Gomu no Culverin The Gear. Maybe a mechanism that allowed Luffy to bend his body like a snake and avoid attacks as well as deliver attacks from unexpected angles. Of course, the same thing is happening here more or less, just less imaginative.
Having moved the complaints out of the way, I really fucking enjoyed this chapter. Damn, Oda can really draw awesome fights when he feels like it. Developing Katakuri's character, even if just a little, helped make it more enjoyable. Loved the panel showing Katakuri looking calm after Luffy's initial attack. You just know - counterattack incoming.
Not sure what Oda had in mind, but reading this, I couldn't help but feel Luffy doesn't deserve to win. Of course, that doesn't matter really, it's just that it's surprising to me that Oda would willingly turn the roles upside down like that. Makes me want to see more out of this fight and how it affects Luffy's development. It's a shame we didn't get some Katakuri inspired techniques from Luffy in this very fight, but that might come later.Hope the fight isn't over because the (supposedly) final clash left a lot to be desired. Lacked that special impact Oda can give to some scenes.
Man, this day. Started reading this morning at work, then got caught in such a busy and chaotic day that I couldn't sit and read it in peace until the evening. Worth the wait, though.